EV Digest 4769 Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: World Solar Challenge by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 2) Re: Capacitor Drag Racing Idea by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 3) Re: Another NEDRA rule question by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 4) RE: World Solar Challenge by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 5) Re: Another NEDRA rule question by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 6) Re: Financing a conversion? by Alan Batie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 7) Re: World Solar Challenge by "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 8) RE: Sydney EV meeting by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 9) Re: Capacitor Drag Racing Idea by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 10) RE: battery explosion by "ohnojoe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 11) Re: Vintage parts info wanted by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 12) Re: S/P motor, was: RE: White Zombie... by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 13) Re: Use of Photovoltaics for EVs by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 14) Wanted - information on DC motor by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 15) Wanted - EV Book by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 16) And Finally - Wanted GE EV-1B Control Card 5H9 or 6H9 by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 17) Re: Use of Photovoltaics for EVs by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 18) RE: Solar Trailer? by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 19) RE: building from scratch by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 20) RE: Siemens EV Motors by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 21) RE: Solar Trailer? by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 22) Re: World Solar Challenge......, question. by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 23) Re: Advice on getting motorcycle glider for an EV by mreish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 24) RE: Wanted - information on DC motor by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---Brent and Kent (Savethesaltflats@ aol.com, and <http://www.savethesaltflats.com>) want to do solar electric racing on the Salt Flats. Solar panels could also go on the underside of the car and catch reflected light. A twist on the idea I had: Allow the solar panels to also be used as sails. I have done the math, and it would be tough to power a practical car with solar panels. Boats, however, seem a perfect niche for solar panels. Many are operated on waterways with a 5 or 10 mph speed limit. Make a big solar array that doubles as a sail and you could really go. <http://www.lightupthenet.com/2005/04/solar_powered_s.html> --- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ... > That said, I'm a bit worried that the solar racers focus too much > on > "racing" and not enough on "solar". Too much competition and focus > on > winning -- no matter what it costs. And too little innovation and > experimentation. The cars are basically the same; same solar cells, > same > motors, same controllers, same batteries, same tires. Nearly all > the > teams just buy these parts; they didn't design or build them. There > isn't much innovation going on. > ... ______________________________________________________ Yahoo! for Good Donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Ok gang; here's another capacitor idea. The field of a series motor takes relatively little power -- like 1% of the total. Yet it has a big influence on the torque-speed curve of the motor. Normally, the field is directly in series with the armature, so both *must* have the same current. This produces the standard series motor characteristics we all know and love/hate; very high starting torque, but torque falls off very fast as speed increases. Field weakening has long been used to alter a series motor's characteristics. Shunt some of the current away with a resistor, and you weaken the field; the motor produces less torque per amp but runs faster. But what if you connected a CAPACITOR in parallel with the field? Because it's a low-voltage high-current winding, the capacitor would also have to be a low-voltage high-current part -- ideally suited to a supercapacitor. Let's assume a contactor controller, or PWM controller with a separate inductor so it's not depending on the field inductance. At any constant speed, motor performance is unchanged. The capacitor simply sits at whatever the voltage is across the series field. Now suppose you "step on the throttle" to double the voltage being applied to the motor. A normal series motor behaves like a resistor; 2x the voltage makes it draw 2x the current. You're now putting 4x the power into the motor; and so making 4x the horsepower. The rpm won't change instantly, so the torque goes up 4x. With that capacitor across the field, the field voltage and thus field current won't change. The fixed field current makes it behave like a PM motor; the armature voltage doubles, and the armature current will go up by a *large* amount! The motor draws all the current it can get trying to instantly accellerate to the new rpm demanded by the new voltage and field current. In other words, you get STRONGER accelleration! Something even more interesting will happen when you reduce the accellerator pedal. Suppose you've been driving at a constant high speed long enough so the capacitor voltage has had time to stabilize. Now you release the accellerator to cut the motor voltage in half. As above, the instantaneous field current will not change because of the capacitor across it. With a fixed field current, it again behaves like a PM motor; the armature voltage tries to stay the same. So the armature current will reverse -- the motor becomes a generator! If you have a contactor controller, it can pass current in either direction, so you get regenerative braking as the generated current flows back into the battery. If you have a PWM controller, it will block the reverse current unless its freewheel diode is also a transistor. This PM-like behaviour will only last for a short time -- roughly the RC time constant of the supercapacitor and the field winding's resistance. For instance, with a 2700 farad capacitor and 0.01 ohm field, it lasts 2700 x0.01 = 27 seconds. -- "One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time." -- Andre Gide -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Hello to All, Hump wrote:Is John's Siamese 8 one motor or two? I say it's one motor.Roderick Wilde wrote: Hi Hump,This is only my opinion, the final decision would come from our tech director but I would feel that since it is on a single armature shaft and there is no coupling I would personally call it a single custom made motor with two commutators.I too, consider it one motor, since the housing is bolted together as one piece with a custom machined center section and it's been modified to the extent to where the separated pieces can't be used as two separate motor housings anymore (one section is different than the other). It also has, as Rod points out, a single custom designed and machined stainless steel armature shaft that both armatures are pressed onto. It has one output shaft, no couplers of any kind, and one fan that cools the entire assembly. For what it's worth, I call it a 'dual armature motor' which is very close to Rod's 'single custom made motor with two commutators'. I also list it as a single motor in all my writings and posts.Roderick WildeI would happily accept any redefinition NEDRA comes up with in regards to rules and or regs governing such things. It's actually cooler to say the car has two motors, especially when talking tech stuff with the gas dudes at the track (two motors sounds more macho than one motor to these guys), but I don't think that's an accurate description anymore.See Ya....John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Sharks- yeah, let's see: 1) money---there are folks on this list who justify spending on amazing things, including ultracaps and experimental batteries. The limiting factor with solar on a car is the surface area---with 11% efficient solar cell technology, you're looking at about $4/watt and about 10watts/sqft, so back to my example: why are so few EVers interested in showing their EVness by spending $4/watt * 10w/sqft, or $40/sqft to cover the average 20-30sqft or so of hard top coupe roofline with a custom, aerodynamic 200-300w integrated solar array? That's about a $1k investment, or about what it costs for floodede batteries in a low cost conversion. Surely this can't be about money when some are justifying $5-10k+ for batteries in some cases. 2) weight---solar racers with their integrated custom arrays are not heavy. Their arrays generate a killowatt. One guy could lift the array. Solar cells are extremely light---and extremely fragile. There's the rub. Commercial panels are heavy due to the non-exotic heavy substrate to keep the cells from bending and the glass and aluminum framing. Solar car arrays are typically composed of a rigid, but light backing structure, a thermally conductive bonding compound (silicone derivatives are typical), the cells and interconnects, and an encapsulation layer. They're not as rugged or necessarily flat as commercial arrays, but neither are they then confined to flat surfaces, in fact, in solar cars these arrays are integrated into not only very curved surfaces, but arguably add very little to aerodynamic drag---something someone already mentioned here as a downside. Again, don't think of commercial arrays---think lots of cells, individually mounted and embedded into a substrate and the entire array sealed. It ain't easy, but college kids are doing this. Surely seasoned EVers can handle it. > On 2005-09-26, Myles Twete wrote: > > Probably not, but I ask this: why are so few EVers at all > interested in integrating solar arrays into the bodies, or at least the > roof, of their car conversions? > > Because the money and weight would be better spent on batteries. > > -----sharks >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---I would call it a 'twin com' as a spoof or parallel of the 'twin cam' that is posted on the sides or trunk of some ICE cars. Joe Smalley Rural Kitsap County WA Fiesta 48 volts NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:01 AM Subject: Re: Another NEDRA rule question > Hi Hump, > > This is only my opinion, the final decision would come from our tech > director but I would feel that since it is on a single armature shaft and > there is no coupling I would personally call it a single custom made motor > with two commutators. > > Roderick Wilde > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 8:36 AM > Subject: Another NEDRA rule question > > > > > > Is John's Siamese 8 one motor or two? > > > > I say it's one motor. > > > > Why do I ask? Because Electric Jr Dragsters are limited to one motor. Not > > that I'm thinking of needing more than one, but it's nice to know. > > > > > > Stay Charged! > > Hump > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.7/112 - Release Date: 9/26/2005 > > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.7/112 - Release Date: 9/26/2005 >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Neon John wrote:If I might make an ever-so-humble suggestion, forget the debt. Save your money and when you have enough, pay cash.Maybe they'll finance a Tango --- the VIN'll match ;-)Yeah, I can probably come up with alternative means, it's just more work, pain and time consuming...smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---On 2005-09-27, Myles Twete wrote: > > 1) money---there are folks on this list who justify spending on amazing > things, including ultracaps and experimental batteries. That's not my point. I'm not suggesting that people shouldn't or won't spend their money, just that it's unlikely that they'll get more range by spending it on solar panels than they would by spending it on more/better batteries. Plucking some numbers out of a local supplier of solar and EV kit: BP Solar Panels (assuming 5h peak insolation) : AU$700 / (80W * 5h) = AU$1.75 / Wh Gel-Tech Batteries (assuming 40% DoD): AU$300 / (12V * 80Ah * .4) = AU$0.78 / Wh + recharging them at AU$0.00013 / Wh. So, even on the sunniest of imaginable days, the batteries are going to be a better use of your money. I'll grant you that the solar cells are lighter per Wh though, so if you live in Death Valley and commute at noon in an ultralight vehicle ... > why are so few EVers interested in showing their EVness [...] Well, that's part of it. I honestly don't give a rats about "showing my EVness". Zooming silently past the petrol station is enough for me ... -----sharks
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Woo Hoo! I'm there, EV and all. Mark -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Claudio Natoli Sent: Wednesday, 28 September 2005 11:21 AM To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Subject: Sydney EV meeting Dear listers and lurkers (particularly those in and around Sydney... Australia, that is :-) Doctor Michael Symons has organised a meeting for Sydney EVers, and has asked me to pass the details on. The meeting will be held at: 8pm Tue, October 4th Party Room, McDonalds Bella Vista 6 Celebration Drive, Bella Vista (in the Norwest Homemaker centre just off Old Windsor Rd; if using an older map, it is at the corner of Lexington and Edgewater Drives, Bella Vista) A number of EVers (and EVs!) will be in attendance. Please come along if you can. Cheers, Claudio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Wouldn't you just prefer to have a controller that used PWM to shunt current away from the field?I don't know the values of capacitance and inductances involved, but an inductor and capacitor in parallel has a resonant frequency and will ring out at that freq whenever the current changes. This may be undesirable.Danny Lee Hart wrote:With that capacitor across the field, the field voltage and thus field current won't change. The fixed field current makes it behave like a PM motor; the armature voltage doubles, and the armature current will go up by a *large* amount! The motor draws all the current it can get trying to instantly accellerate to the new rpm demanded by the new voltage and field current. In other words, you get STRONGER accelleration! Something even more interesting will happen when you reduce the accellerator pedal. Suppose you've been driving at a constant high speed long enough so the capacitor voltage has had time to stabilize. Now you release the accellerator to cut the motor voltage in half. As above, the instantaneous field current will not change because of the capacitor across it. With a fixed field current, it again behaves like a PM motor; the armature voltage tries to stay the same. So the armature current will reverse -- the motor becomes a generator! If you have a contactor controller, it can pass current in either direction, so you get regenerative braking as the generated current flows back into the battery. If you have a PWM controller, it will block the reverse current unless its freewheel diode is also a transistor. This PM-like behaviour will only last for a short time -- roughly the RC time constant of the supercapacitor and the field winding's resistance. For instance, with a 2700 farad capacitor and 0.01 ohm field, it lasts 2700 x0.01 = 27 seconds.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Hey, Thanks for the input. I did do a spot check of the terminals with a torque wrench and they had hardly any lbs on them. However, 95-100 lbs seems like a lot to put on that led. I checked Google with "Trojan Battery" torque and found the following conflicting information Proper Torque Values for Connection Hardware Flooded 65 to 75 in-lbs Gel or AGM 90 to 100 in-lbs ( see web page http://www.green-trust.org/battfaq.htm) Then there is this FAQ from Trojan What is the proper torque value for my battery connections? Flooded Automotive 50-70 in-lbs Wingnut 95-105 in-lbs LPT 95-105 in-lbs Stud 120-180 in-lbs LT 100-120 in-lbs> VRLA Button 90 to 100 in-lbs LT 100-120 in-lbs WARNING: Do not overtighten terminals. Doing so can result in post breakage, post meltdown, and fire. (see web page http://www.trojan-battery.com/Tech-Support/FAQ/Maintenance.aspx The post/stud did melt and then the battery did blow up.(that's what an insurance adjuster would say. "No no your house flooded first and then the wind driven rain came with the hurricane and that blew your roof off") I digress, I'm sure that's the way it went down. The top of the case split in various places, however, one of the cell's vent cap kept the 3 piece cap in place, the 3 piece vent cap was askew. (I always want to use that word) I was/am very unhappy with the terminals on these batters. The batteries have a short regular battery post and then a stud next to it, all one piece. The guy at the store said Trojan was not shipping the regular post anymore but going with this hybrid. The post for the regular camp is there is no surface area cause it too short hence, I didn't feel I was getting a good connection. I had to make all new leads. Roland, you said that you made new post??? Is that correct? Talk to us. Any comments about the fuse that didn't blow and the funk way it was hooked up. I got some steal flat stock to replace the aluminum but I was waiting to see if any one had some thoughts about the fuse. Thanks Joe
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---At 08:20 PM 27/09/05 -0700, Pete wrote:I have acquired 2 pieces of vintage EV equipment First is the Siemens motor, a big brute, with a numberCan't help you with the part number, but if you can describe number of brushes, size of brushes, number of commutator bars and overall motor dimensions, there are those on this list who can make an educated guess as to the capability of the motor.Second item is the Lester charger rated at 108 volts.I believe that you have described a ferro-resonant charger. If you peer into it you will see a big transformer with a bunch of wires, two of which will go to a capacitor (can-thing) and nowhere else. Two will go to a rectifier (finned thing) that has two other wired that end up going to the battery (probably via another transformer-looking thing that only has two wires - a choke [aka inductor]). Fuse/(es) will be in this wiring as well. If it is able to be set for other voltages there is likely to be a terminal block in the wiring between the transformer and the rectifier.Hope this helpsJames
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---At 01:01 PM 27/09/05 +1000, Nick 'Sharkey' Moore wrote:> Someone suggested P/S a battery pack, but that would be ... unhealthy, to > say the least - massive inrush currents to the controller, have to > precharge again for the doubled voltage. *waves* that was me! Written under the assumption that I'd have to build a controller to handle it anyway, and that the S/P switchover would be _after_ any big capacitors. A semi-contactor controller, really ...*waves back* proof that there are many more than one way to do things.Something that I have been thinking of for a while, is what would happen if you had the fields rewound with taps in them. For example, my motor has 4 field windings. I don't know how many turns, but say 11 turns per winding. If one end of each is brought out to a stud, and a tap at, say, 4 turns, you would be able to do the following:Using 4 low-voltage contactors (say 24V ex-forklift ones) when you are ready for high RPM you can short the 4 turns of each field, turning the 11-turns into 7 turns. 34% weaker field, all the current still going in the motor.Whether it'd be worth it over a bypass of the whole field windings with a resistor is debateable. At least you'd have predictable results.James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---On 9/28/05, djsharpe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Mounting PVs on vehicles with limited surface areas and the need to > mount them flat (at least whilst moving) is less preferred than locating > them in optimised fixed locations. Here the energy produced can be fed > into the grid for later recovery or stored directly in batteries. I have > heard that solar challenge PVs are sometimes damaged during the events. > They are fragile things. I have 3kW of PV on a roof & am planning 1.6kW > more. This is to power my house but it is not enough to charge my EV as > well. PV modules, of the sort that you mount on your roof, are actually very tough. I imagine that the cells used on solar racers are optimised more for weight and the ability to flexed to fit the body of the car, so are probably more fragile. I have 1kW of PV on a tracking array, grid connected. This only produces enough to run my EV for about 2500 miles per year, but then, that's not much PV and a large heavy van EV.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---On Saturday, I plan to go out and select the drive motor from the many that my friend has available at his repair shop. He typically works only on industrial equipment, but he knows a great deal about motors and rebuilding them. As far as EV's go, he has very little knowledge. I want to be sure I get something that is capable of propelling the Geo Metro with decent acceleration, but not so big that I need a massive battery pack that the car can't accommodate. Does anyone have any specific information on RFE industrial motors so that I can pick a good one. Right now, I am going with "a series wound motor as big as I can pick up which should give me an 80 - 90 lb list motor ~ 7.5" diameter" - very roughly. What brand is best? Should I stick with name plates reading 36 V, or opt for the 36 / 48 V. Again, I want to be sure that I can actually power the thing. Also, it has to be physically small enough that I can handle it and get it in the car. He offered me a motor that is 14 - 18" diameter, 48 V, and probably can generate a max of 150+ HP. I know that is too big, but what do I really need? Thanks, Steve Powers
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---To go along with my new motor, I need to design an adapter plate. I am a Mechanical Engineer with access to CAD stations and a machine shop needed to construct it. But, I need some specific reference information on what people have done in the past for adapter plates and couplings. Which book is best - Convert It? How to Convert to an Electric Car? Design and Build Your Own Electric Vehicles? I already have Bob Brant's book, but it doesn't give detailed construction details for those parts. Can anyone recommend which book is best for the very detailed fabrication information that I need. Anyone have a copy that they want to sell me. Thanks, Steve Powers
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Finally, I am looking to purchase a used GE EV-1B control card to replace the one that I have. It needs to be 48 - 84 V or 24 - 84 V and have the 1A bypass capability. The above mentioned ones will work, and maybe some other older card numbers. I'd prefer the 24 - 84 V card. One sold on e-bay last week, but we all know who that can go getting outbid and such. Does anyone have one what they are willing to sell me? That's all for now and should be enough to get the design and construction started. Thanks, Steve Powers
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Evan Tuer wrote:I have 1kW of PV on a tracking array, grid connected. This only produces enough to run my EV for about 2500 miles per year, but then, that's not much PV and a large heavy van EV.Evan, Does tracking pay off for you?I am doing a cost-benefit analysis of my various mounting options. I will have a roof-array on my EV bus. Right now I am leaning towards _not_ leaning towards the sun-- planning a simple flat install, five inches above the existing roofline.For a few dollars more (and many extra hours of labor, added complexity) I can go for a manually-adjustable panel-mount. (I am also playing with the idea of splurging on 24" actuators, just for fun.) But I am wondering about the benefit of tracking. Someone suggested to me that the money spent on tracking would be better spent on a couple more panels (if you have the space).Did your array always track? Do you have a feel for how much tracking has added to your power production? Would you say that tracking is worth the added expense and complexity?Tanks in advance. Jim
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---What you could do is make the trailer run off of 2 Trojan L16HC batteries in series for 24 volts and then have a 24 volt inverter change that to AC 240V to run a charger or 115V for a charger. That way you could be down to 2 panels to charge the system and the L16HC batteries would have plenty of capacity to run the charge cycle. You would also have to figure out some kind of theft protection for the trailer - I myself would not feel comfortable leaving a trailer with high dollar equipment in the parking lot unattended. Jody -----Original Message----- From: Mark Hastings [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:47 PM To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Subject: Re: Solar Trailer? Oh yeah it does doesn't it. I'm glad I posted this here I hopefully would have figured that out eventually but it makes the idea much more achievable and practical with just panels on a trailer or stand alone frame of some kind. I could position it so that I'm there for the "good" hours of the panels. Certainly would make it light so I could maybe tow it with the motorcycle after folding up the panels and bring it home for the weekend or if I'm taking a vacation for a week or two. The batteries would really only help on say monday when it had saturday and sunday to charge up all day if I had the additional capacity in the batteries. Thanks Again. This MC thing might just happen. Mark Hastings Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I was thinking about solar on my house myself but where I really need > power is at work. What if I left a little trailer with solar panels and > some batteries at work and plugged in during the day? Why would you need batteries? I assume you work during the daytime? Unless you are going somewhere for lunch, your EV will be hooked up to the panels during the only useful solar charging periods and, presumably, your EV already has batteries, so...? -- If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Here is a thought I am just throwing out there - How about a dual motor setup using a transfer case in the front mounted sideways for the front two wheels and then a motor hooked directly to the differential in the back. You could have them controlled in series/parallel just like White Zombie but in a different configuration. You could have both run to get you up to speed but then shut one off (the rear or the front) when you were up to speed to save energy. Just a thought. Jody -----Original Message----- From: Ray Brooks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 4:06 PM To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Subject: Re: building from scratch First you have to decide if you want it to be FWD, front motor - rear wheel drive, mid-motor or rear motor. Transverse motor or longitudinal ? Automatic trans, manual trans or no trans ? Once you have the basic layout designed in your head then you can put pencil to paper and start designing the frame and the jig to build the frame on. Then you acquire the tranny, and other running gear. The best way to assure that all the suspension works as needed is to copy the dimensions of the donor car. The easiest way is to use the A-arms and spindle assemblies from the same vehicle that all the rest of the drivetrain is taken from. Then you just make sure that all the A-arm mounts are in the same exact location in reference to one another and the ground and you then know that the geometry will be OK. I once built a dirt midget from the ground up and there is a lot of thinking and cogitating that goes on as the car takes shape. You end up with a chair on each side of the jig so that you can sit and visualize the build process and work out the design elements as you proceed. You need to write down a general order of assembly or you may find yourself having to "unbuild" things because you missed a step. What sort of body are you thinking of using ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "brian baumel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:26 PM Subject: building from scratch > greeting all, > a friend and I are starting a electric car project > from the group up. we are planning on designing and > building the chassis and the whole bit. ambitious I > know. I was wondering if anyone had advice to share > and/or possibly sources for parts like the front > suspension (new).... > > regards, > > Brian > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Yahoo! for Good > Donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. > http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/ > >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Question is - why would you want 60HZ? I would think if you are interested in a motor capable to drive a vehicle a 400Hz 3 phase would be a lot easier to find than a 60Hz that can handle the torque. 400Hz motors are a lot smaller and more powerful. -----Original Message----- From: Ryan Stotts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 6:57 PM To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Subject: Re: Siemens EV Motors Victor wrote: > Can you find me any industrial 60 hz liquid cooled motor > small enough to be usable in an EV? I've searched and searched and I don't think there is such a thing. I've also looked for suitable air cooled AC motors.. Even if found, there is still the inverter issue... Victor, will any of your inverters work with the motor Lee linked too? http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?&catname=&qty=1&item=10-1937
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---I find this a very very interesting idea. Hmm. Its good for small ev's like mine with very small range, 25km max. It could charge a small battery and the battery could power an inverter than could be used to charge the batteries. However, sorta wasting the solar energy. In-efficiencies with battery absorbing charge roughly 70%, then conversion by the inverter another 90% and then charger efficiency prob 70%. Better to just charge the whole battery bank in parallel, but then might have problem with unequal charging of the batteries. Oh well. Will do some more pondering. Robert -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) Sent: 28 September 2005 21:34 To: 'ev@listproc.sjsu.edu' Subject: RE: Solar Trailer? What you could do is make the trailer run off of 2 Trojan L16HC batteries in series for 24 volts and then have a 24 volt inverter change that to AC 240V to run a charger or 115V for a charger. That way you could be down to 2 panels to charge the system and the L16HC batteries would have plenty of capacity to run the charge cycle. You would also have to figure out some kind of theft protection for the trailer - I myself would not feel comfortable leaving a trailer with high dollar equipment in the parking lot unattended. Jody -----Original Message----- From: Mark Hastings [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:47 PM To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Subject: Re: Solar Trailer? Oh yeah it does doesn't it. I'm glad I posted this here I hopefully would have figured that out eventually but it makes the idea much more achievable and practical with just panels on a trailer or stand alone frame of some kind. I could position it so that I'm there for the "good" hours of the panels. Certainly would make it light so I could maybe tow it with the motorcycle after folding up the panels and bring it home for the weekend or if I'm taking a vacation for a week or two. The batteries would really only help on say monday when it had saturday and sunday to charge up all day if I had the additional capacity in the batteries. Thanks Again. This MC thing might just happen. Mark Hastings Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I was thinking about solar on my house myself but where I really need > power is at work. What if I left a little trailer with solar panels and > some batteries at work and plugged in during the day? Why would you need batteries? I assume you work during the daytime? Unless you are going somewhere for lunch, your EV will be hooked up to the panels during the only useful solar charging periods and, presumably, your EV already has batteries, so...? -- If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --->> BTW, don't underestimate the benefits of cooling the cells either. The >> power output is reduced significantly as they heat up. While cooling >> them is difficult to do well due to their construction, it is something >> to think about. >> OK..... WHYTHEHELL don't these guyz, cell makers tie in with the solar > HEATing folks and offer a heater and juice panel, Water would cool things > down a bit, right?and the juice would flow a bit better? What am I missing > here, 'cept the damn photovoltiacs are Unobtainium these daze, anyhow. Easy, because by the time the cells are hot enough to heat water, they are too hot to produce electricity at maximum efficiency. The 'cool' temperature for PVs is less than 1/2 the temperature of the water circulating through a solar water heating panel. Water cooling PVs could work, but you'd want to use COLD water not HOT water. Of course there is the whole electric isolation issue to overcome, but that's doable. In the long run, it's cheaper just to buy more panels instead of building a system to cool them. -- If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Thanks for the data point on your range with Yellow Tops -- that's helpful to me. To what level of discharge is 16 miles on your batteries? Do you have data on your actual kilowatt hours of discharge to go that 16 miles? Seems like you would have a very good situation, being on mostly flat terrain.No, no data yet. That's to 80% discharge. No fun riding on mostly flat, mostly straight roads. :(-- The Electric Motorcycle Portal http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---HI there, You could do some maths and calculate the aero drag and rolling resistances for various speeds. Then equate those forces to torque and using the gearbox multiplier through the gear ratios, you could determine the torque needed at the motor. See if your motor can supply that torque or the power. See what the current rating of the motor is and do not exceed the rated voltage of the motor too much. Cheers -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 September 2005 20:33 To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu Subject: Wanted - information on DC motor On Saturday, I plan to go out and select the drive motor from the many that my friend has available at his repair shop. He typically works only on industrial equipment, but he knows a great deal about motors and rebuilding them. As far as EV's go, he has very little knowledge. I want to be sure I get something that is capable of propelling the Geo Metro with decent acceleration, but not so big that I need a massive battery pack that the car can't accommodate. Does anyone have any specific information on RFE industrial motors so that I can pick a good one. Right now, I am going with "a series wound motor as big as I can pick up which should give me an 80 - 90 lb list motor ~ 7.5" diameter" - very roughly. What brand is best? Should I stick with name plates reading 36 V, or opt for the 36 / 48 V. Again, I want to be sure that I can actually power the thing. Also, it has to be physically small enough that I can handle it and get it in the car. He offered me a motor that is 14 - 18" diameter, 48 V, and probably can generate a max of 150+ HP. I know that is too big, but what do I really need? Thanks, Steve Powers
--- End Message ---