EV Digest 4774
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Designing for safety (was 'Re: Composite monocoque vs. sand buggy'
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Designing for safety (was 'Re: Composite monocoque vs. sand buggy'
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Wanted - information on DC motor
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Newbie question.....
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) "White Zombie" blasts into the 12.2s
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Battricide? Or are Orbitals tougher than that?
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) "White Zombie" leaves the 12.2s in the tire smoke
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: "White Zombie" leaves the 12.2s in the tire smoke
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: "White Zombie" blasts into the 12.2s
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: "White Zombie" blasts into the 12.2s
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: S-10 Conversion Speed Sensor
by "Tom Carpenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) "White Zombie" in the final round
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: "White Zombie" blasts into the 12.2s
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) last Run of Zombie from track side
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Battricide? Or are Orbitals tougher than that?
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) FS: 9 Evercel M100s, plus spare cells
by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: "White Zombie" in the final round
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: GEM-like but much better looking...
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) another Solectria Sunrise All Composite EV Car Body on ebay
by Tom Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Designing for safety (was 'Re: Composite monocoque vs. sand buggy'
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Blew up Diode bridge.
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Solar Trailer?
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Battery or Generator Trailer
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Combining Fiberglass and Steel (was Re: Designing for safety)
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Solar Trailer? charge control
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Designing for safety (was 'Re: Composite monocoque vs. sand buggy'
by "Tim Stephenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Solar Trailer?
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: Solar Trailer?
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Peter wrote:
> Might not be the lightest, but it WILL be safe(r) and not much heavier.
> You can do a good steel roll cage in about 100 lbs give or take.
Some details on a weld in, 6 point cage for a Mustang:
Mild Steel, $289, "weighs about 80-85lbs"
Chromoly, $415, "weighs about 60-65lbs"
They also make bolt in versions.
http://www.wolferacecraft.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=73
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
stU wrote:
> Square or round, size and wall thickness?
>
> I'm thinking 1-1/2" square 0.125" wall.
Scroll way down on this page to where it says "Round Tube vs. Square
Tube". Some VERY interesting info...
http://www.factoryfive.com/table/ffrkits/roadster/specs/frame.html
The frame on that page unbelievably weighs 350 lbs and the fiberglass
body weighs 110 lbs..
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Victor your pretty close to me and in fact are probably not far off my
weekly motor run route, as we come back over Santiam pass. What type of motor
are you looking to obtain?
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Redmond OR.
Victor Reppeto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Steve, not really what you asked about but I was wondering if next time you
>are at your buddies motor shop, could you get me more info on the " 14-18"
>motor " that you were offered? Offlist reply would be fine. Thanks, David
>Chapman.
I am still trying to sell an ICE car first but I am also interested
in the details and prices of the motors you are/not considering.
Thanx,
Victor R.
Salem, Or
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Luck Home wrote:
> I don't quite understand why we do not use fixed field
> magnet motors.
Got any links to these motors?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This just in via John's cell phone at the PIR track in Portland, Oregon.
"White Zombie" with Tim Brehm trying to hold on to the wheel just blasted
into the 12.2s with a 12.275 second run at 104.78 mph. The 60 foot time was
1.629 seconds. The two previous runs were in the 12.3s. The Zombie is HOT
tonight. 12.2s are textbook Viper times. Watch out all you over flexed
"Arnold" cars, the "Zombie" is on the loose.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Everyone,
With my recent trial of PowerCheq units for battery equalization, I have
been very impressed (batteries are consistenly less than 50mV different
across the board). Impressed enough that I am now stocking the item on
the EV Source website. But, I was lead to realize that I was *really*
pushing my Orbitals hard! I have a Z1K with 144V pack of Orbs. They
have been way fun the last 10 months. I feel a little sheepish
admitting that I had my hairball low voltage limit at about 70V! You do
the math yourself if you want to know how far I was letting the
batteries sag under load.
It seems the magic number I've heard under load is 10.5V before you are
at 0% SOC. So now my question: under what sort of load does this 10.5V
hold true? Or is that just for certain types of batteries? I know I
haven't killed my pack because it has been consistently performing well
(range and acceleration). I don't doubt that my abuse could lead to a
shorter life. Should I curtail my low-voltage abuse, set the low
voltage limit at around 120V? When I do that, it's not the same beast
though! It's really pretty sluggish with the low voltage limit around
115V. So where do I draw the line, life vs. fun?
Thanks,
Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, WarP, and PowerCheq
All at the best prices available!
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
NEWS FLASH: Just in, "White Zombie" was down to one of the final rounds in
its first night of racing in the Pro Stock Division of bracket racing as it
lined up against an 11 second Camaro and blew his doors off. Both cars broke
out but the Zombie got the win. The Zombie ran an incredible 12.181 ET at
105.12 mph making the crowd go wild. They had dialed in a 12.19. Some guy in
the crowd was so excited he grabbed the phone from Johns hands telling me
how the Zombie had ate his neighbors car and when he went to look at the
engine that did the dead he was blown away as he couldn't find it. Only this
little tube in there. He was so excited and so hilarious! The sixty foot
time was an extremely impressive 1.613. It's all over for the Viper crowd
now! Jim Husted, I hope you are reading this.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
--
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for all the play by play Rod. I cant really post right now but wanted
to let ya know I'm listening and pumped for Wayland and Tim alike. Way to go
guys.
Keep us posted
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
NEWS FLASH: Just in, "White Zombie" was down to one of the final rounds in
its first night of racing in the Pro Stock Division of bracket racing as it
lined up against an 11 second Camaro and blew his doors off. Both cars broke
out but the Zombie got the win. The Zombie ran an incredible 12.181 ET at
105.12 mph making the crowd go wild. They had dialed in a 12.19. Some guy in
the crowd was so excited he grabbed the phone from Johns hands telling me
how the Zombie had ate his neighbors car and when he went to look at the
engine that did the dead he was blown away as he couldn't find it. Only this
little tube in there. He was so excited and so hilarious! The sixty foot
time was an extremely impressive 1.613. It's all over for the Viper crowd
now! Jim Husted, I hope you are reading this.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
--
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Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.8/114 - Release Date: 9/28/2005
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So Rod... you have "3" drag racing EVs-
http://www.evparts.com/about/index.php?show=mazda.ihtml
http://www.evparts.com/about/index.php?show=roadster.ihtml
http://www.suckamps.com/index.php?page=projects
You gonna step up to the plate (or roll up to the tree and stage?) anytime
soon?
I bet that Mazda is gettin' sorta rusty :^D
Roderick Wilde wrote:
This just in via John's cell phone at the PIR track in Portland, Oregon.
"White Zombie" with Tim Brehm trying to hold on to the wheel just blasted
into the 12.2s with a 12.275 second run at 104.78 mph. The 60 foot time was
1.629 seconds. The two previous runs were in the 12.3s. The Zombie is HOT
tonight. 12.2s are textbook Viper times. Watch out all you over flexed
"Arnold" cars, the "Zombie" is on the loose.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
.
Roy LeMeur
Olympia WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
YHEEEEHA! Guyz! What a heartwarming story to sleep on tonite.Tell me the
motor(motors) are happyin their work. Hell! Must be if they are cranking out
these runs and Tim knows how to use it. Hope their are vid cams out there,
taking all this down to tape or chips?? Come on guyz? No vids? I gotta fly
out to take more<g>!
Is Zombie turned oup now to full volume? I mean zillion amps? 110 with a
tad of feald shunting?Ha Ha. Beta ya Jim has givin it some thought?
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 11:28 PM
Subject: "White Zombie" blasts into the 12.2s
> This just in via John's cell phone at the PIR track in Portland, Oregon.
> "White Zombie" with Tim Brehm trying to hold on to the wheel just blasted
> into the 12.2s with a 12.275 second run at 104.78 mph. The 60 foot time
was
> 1.629 seconds. The two previous runs were in the 12.3s. The Zombie is HOT
> tonight. 12.2s are textbook Viper times. Watch out all you over flexed
> "Arnold" cars, the "Zombie" is on the loose.
>
> Roderick Wilde
> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> www.suckamps.com
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.8/114 - Release Date: 9/28/2005
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It does have a pcm computer and went throught that first before going to the
cluster
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 2:49 PM
Subject: S-10 Conversion Speed Sensor
Hello Everybody:
I've got an 120 V 95' S-10, convertion 2/3 done by somebody else
(unfortunately deceased). While this person did a great job on the high
voltage side, he kind of 'rigged' the 12 Volt side. Among other things, he
installed a new speedometer and mounted it on the dash. I am currently
rebuilding the 12 V side so that everything works as it is supposed to.
However, the speedometer gives me a hard time. I connected the speed
sensor input to the original speedometer, but it gives me unvalid speed
readings (approx. 10 times the speed I am actually driving and going to 0
at actual speeds > 15 mph).
My question: On (1995's) S-10, is/was the speed sensor directly connected
to the speedometer or via some internal computer (that has, unfortunately,
been removed) ? What would be a prudent course of action to get the
speedometer working again?
Your insights are appreciated.
Michaela
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In the last run of the night there were only two cars left standing from the
eliminations, "White Zombie" and an ultra hot built Camaro. As they lined up
for the final shoot out for the cash the crowd went crazy cheering on the
little electric. The Zombie did it's best time of the night with only a two
thirds charge. It turned a 12.151 second ET at 106.25 mph which is also it's
top speed so far. The sixty foot time was an even more impressive 1.611
seconds. The eighth was at 7.602. Even though it lost the final round this
little car continues to astound the gas crowds in the stands as it gets
quicker and quicker. They're definitely out hunting for the elevens now.
This all is making me feel as though we may be nearing the hundredth monkey
for EV awareness. Much congratulations go to John Wayland and Tim Brehm of
team "Plasma Boy Racing". This was Tim's first night ever of bracket racing
and he made it to the final round. How impressive is that?!
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They had the camera rolling and I'm sure the footage will be up on the
Plasma Boy sight very soon!
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: "White Zombie" blasts into the 12.2s
YHEEEEHA! Guyz! What a heartwarming story to sleep on tonite.Tell me the
motor(motors) are happyin their work. Hell! Must be if they are cranking
out
these runs and Tim knows how to use it. Hope their are vid cams out there,
taking all this down to tape or chips?? Come on guyz? No vids? I gotta fly
out to take more<g>!
Is Zombie turned oup now to full volume? I mean zillion amps? 110 with a
tad of feald shunting?Ha Ha. Beta ya Jim has givin it some thought?
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 11:28 PM
Subject: "White Zombie" blasts into the 12.2s
This just in via John's cell phone at the PIR track in Portland, Oregon.
"White Zombie" with Tim Brehm trying to hold on to the wheel just blasted
into the 12.2s with a 12.275 second run at 104.78 mph. The 60 foot time
was
1.629 seconds. The two previous runs were in the 12.3s. The Zombie is HOT
tonight. 12.2s are textbook Viper times. Watch out all you over flexed
"Arnold" cars, the "Zombie" is on the loose.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
--
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.8/114 - Release Date: 9/28/2005
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Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.8/114 - Release Date: 9/28/2005
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have been trying to get a big pair of Simpson Gages wired on to the 75K...
and my phone keeps on ringing...
First John blew by his personal best on run Three with a run of 12.340 at
104.21 mph and a 60 ft of 1.62
Then the last phone call... as I am reaching DEEeeep into the Guts of the
75K.... Yes Listers.. I work late....at the shop.
the last run was the 2nd place spot of the night real racing... Only one guy
Beat John at the lights....
The Zombie clocks in a 12.151 Sec at 106.25 with not a full charge on the
Hawkers.
Man he is now knocking on the 11s door and that with a 1.611 60 Ft and a 1/8
trap of 7.602.
Clearly with the next run... the 11s are near. John gets to Drive Zombie home
knowing he it piloting a 11 second street car... IF only he had another run to
warm up the Lead even more.
Man I wish I was there... But... gotta build miricles....one brick at a time.
Damn fine driving folks... After a long season on the Jack stands, John is now
reaping the gains that hard work deserve.
It starts raining here this evening. This easily could be the last night to
race of the season.
Way to go John and the Zombie team.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro.
No I am NOT going back to the shop....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cheer up Ryan Us raceres use 6.00 volts as our never to go under voltage.
You can do this while the batteries are fully charged.. but running them
under 10 volts when depleted is not a safe thing to do.
The Orbs I tested made 1850 amps and did not drop under 7.34 volts. So with
fully charged Orbs... that punny Z1K really can't hurt the Orbs.
Amp ON!
Madman
Wish I was racing with Tim and John....sigh.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Bohm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:44 PM
Subject: Battricide? Or are Orbitals tougher than that?
> Hi Everyone,
>
> With my recent trial of PowerCheq units for battery equalization, I have
> been very impressed (batteries are consistenly less than 50mV different
> across the board). Impressed enough that I am now stocking the item on
> the EV Source website. But, I was lead to realize that I was *really*
> pushing my Orbitals hard! I have a Z1K with 144V pack of Orbs. They
> have been way fun the last 10 months. I feel a little sheepish
> admitting that I had my hairball low voltage limit at about 70V! You do
> the math yourself if you want to know how far I was letting the
> batteries sag under load.
>
> It seems the magic number I've heard under load is 10.5V before you are
> at 0% SOC. So now my question: under what sort of load does this 10.5V
> hold true? Or is that just for certain types of batteries? I know I
> haven't killed my pack because it has been consistently performing well
> (range and acceleration). I don't doubt that my abuse could lead to a
> shorter life. Should I curtail my low-voltage abuse, set the low
> voltage limit at around 120V? When I do that, it's not the same beast
> though! It's really pretty sluggish with the low voltage limit around
> 115V. So where do I draw the line, life vs. fun?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ryan
> --
> - EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
> Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, WarP, and PowerCheq
> All at the best prices available!
> E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have 9 Evercel M100s which I was going to install into my car, but have
not, and probably would not in the near future. I also have 5 spare cells
in the event you develop a bad cell. I'd like to get $1750 for the lot,
but I am willing to hear other offers. The only catch is if you want it
shipped I'm going to have to solicit ideas from the list for shipping
them. I can presumably palletize them, and if it's within a few hours
drive I can probably bring them to you, or at least meet you somewhere.
Also, I have 10 Rudman MK2b regulators which if the buyer wishes to pick
them up, I will part with for $42.50 each. These are new, fully assembled
and never installed.
If you have questions, please let me know
Derrick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yo Roderick
The 11s are just a few runs off now for the Zombie.
Plasma Boy keeps cranking it up a little at a time (hint, hint)
(and he has a sane driver :-)
Gotta sneak up on it.
Got mothballs for your rides? :-0
Yes, this is intended to slap ya around and get cha back on (the) track.
"Har Har and Arrrrrr! (you know... us Yellowbeards are even more dangerous
after we are dead! Arrrrr! And we'll kill anybody that gets in the way of us
killin' anybody! Arrrrr!)"
[or something like that. Graham Chapman from "Yellowbeard" the movie]
We need more folks out there whuppin' but on the ICE racers.
Critical Mass will come.
Roderick wrote:
------------------------
In the last run of the night there were only two cars left standing from the
eliminations, "White Zombie" and an ultra hot built Camaro. As they lined up
for the final shoot out for the cash the crowd went crazy cheering on the
little electric. The Zombie did it's best time of the night with only a two
thirds charge. It turned a 12.151 second ET at 106.25 mph which is also it's
top speed so far. The sixty foot time was an even more impressive 1.611
seconds. The eighth was at 7.602. Even though it lost the final round this
little car continues to astound the gas crowds in the stands as it gets
quicker and quicker. They're definitely out hunting for the elevens now.
This all is making me feel as though we may be nearing the hundredth monkey
for EV awareness. Much congratulations go to John Wayland and Tim Brehm of
team "Plasma Boy Racing". This was Tim's first night ever of bracket racing
and he made it to the final round. How impressive is that?!
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----------------------------------
.
Roy LeMeur
Olympia WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.taylor-dunn.com/07vehiclesforyourindustry/PDF_04/ELECTRUCK_081999_1.PDF
This one is a true NEV class truck. Wonder how much it costs? Lawrence
Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Burnside" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 10:28 PM
Subject: GEM-like but much better looking...
http://www.taylor-dunn.com/07vehiclesforyourindustry/43et3000.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey all
here's another one (sunrise) on ebay;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Solectria-Sunrise-All-Composite-EV-Car-Body_W0QQitemZ8003377040QQcategoryZ36475QQtcZphotoQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
and a gmc ev van;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/EV-Battery-Power-Electric-GMC-Van-Truck-Chevy-Ford-Car_W0QQitemZ8003084863QQcategoryZ6763QQtcZphotoQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
and a 1982 Comuta-Car;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Other-Makes-Comuta-Car-COMUTA-CAR-VANGUARD-ELECTRIC-CAR-EV-NOT-GEM-CITICAR_W0QQitemZ4578867280QQcategoryZ6472QQtcZphotoQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Tom
__________________________________________________________
Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A friend of mine was disqualified from moving up a class because he
has a chromoly roll cage. For land speed racing they wanted mild
steel.
So anyway, moral of the story is check the rules on any race
associations you that you might ever try racing under.
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Peter wrote:
>
> > Might not be the lightest, but it WILL be safe(r) and not much
> heavier.
> > You can do a good steel roll cage in about 100 lbs give or take.
>
> Some details on a weld in, 6 point cage for a Mustang:
>
> Mild Steel, $289, "weighs about 80-85lbs"
>
> Chromoly, $415, "weighs about 60-65lbs"
>
> They also make bolt in versions.
>
> http://www.wolferacecraft.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=73
>
>
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:36 PM 28/09/05 -0700, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
I combined the output of the two diode bridges and I think they blew up.
Before I combined them they worked fine. Now nothing. I thought I could
combine the output of my two variac's. They are in sync. Should I
combine on the AC side and use one bridge?
Hi Lawrence
If your variacs are running the same taps and same phase, and you joined
the rectifier +ves together and -ves together, there shouldn't have been a
problem. Coupling the variacs before the rectifier would also be OK,
provided the variacs match. If they are a little out of sync, it would be
better to couple after the rectifiers.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't think he mentioned exactly what voltage level he was going to run on
the motorcycle or how many batteries. I was merely stating hypotheticals.
I am thinking that a trailer with solar will be an interesting concept but
not really practical. It might be easier just to have it set up that way at
home.
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter VanDerWal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 12:38 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Solar Trailer?
> OK, the panel link below shows the panels are capable of 57 volts at about
> 3
> amps each. To be able to run the whole pack you would need 3 of those
> panels which would be 171 volts at about 3 amps if you connected them in
> series.
Which pack are we talking about? THe original poster was asking about an
electric motorcycle. I don't know of ANY motorcycles that carry a 156V
pack that stores 6+ kwh worth of energy. Heck I don't know of any
motorcycles at all that carry 6kwh at any voltage. THat would be
something like 18 Optima YTs
> If you ran 9 panels (3 parallel strings of 3) that would increase
> the output to 9 amps (1539 W). That is not enough to charge the pack very
> effectively in my humble opinion. Now if all of the panels were connected
> in parallel (9 panels) and charge a 24V pack that is 57 volts at 27 amps
> or 1539 watts going into the two L16HC batteries. The L16HC batteries
> could take a 30 amp draw for say 4 hours and get recharged from the array.
> If you get 10 hours of sun a 9 panel array should be able to get the
> batteries back up to snuff.
Ok first of all, batteries don't MAKE energy, they store it. If you are
going to pull 6kwh worth of energy out of a set of Lead-Acid batteries,
then you need to put approx 8kwh worth of energy INTO them (to account for
charging inefficiency)
Secondly, I don't know of anywhere that you can average 10 hours worth of
solar charging a day. 4-5 hours is typical of southern states, 2-4 of
the more norther ones.
Finally, as has been pointed out, Power is NOT measured in Amps, it's
measured in Watts, and energy is measured in Watt Hours.
If you are going to draw 30 amps at 12V out of a battery and run it
through a converter to get 240V, then you only end up with approx 1.5
Amps.
30A x 12V = 360 Watts. 240V x 1.5Amps = 360 Watts.
Real life you'll get less than 1.5 amps because you loose some power in
the conversion.
So, if you use batteries, you loose energy during charging, you loose more
in the conversion up to 240 volts and you loose more in the battery
charger to charger the on board batteries. Also, unless you run a Max
Power Point Tracker, you will loose voltage between the array and the
batteries.
12V arrays are actually at least 16V. If you connect it directly to the
battery, the battery draws the voltage down to it's level. But the
CUrrent doesn't change much.
An array rated for 100 Watts , usually means that it can produce 16V @
6.25 Amps (or whatever). If you hook it directly up to a 12V battery,
then it will produce ~13V at ~6.3 amps = 82 Watts. You've just lost 18%
of your power. Near end of charge the battery voltage is ~ 14.5V @ 6.25A
= 90Watts. Now you are only loosing 10%.
The battery Charges at between 13 and 14.5V, but discharges at between
10.5 and 11.5V. For simplicity, call it 13.5V and 11V. The battery also
requires approx 10% more current coming in than goes out.
If you do the math, then you'll see that the battery will only output
approx 75% of the energy it takes to charge it.
So now you've lost 15% from the array being directly connected to the pact
and another 25% in battery charging efficiency.
Then you run it through an inverter, you loose another 15%. Then through
a charger another 15-25%.
So 15% * 25% * 15% * 15% = approx 46%. You are loosing over 50% of the
energy produced by the array.
If you run the array directly into a DC-DC converter, you'll loose ~ 15%
of the power and that's it.
15% vs 54% looses, which would you choose?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Evan Tuer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:58 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Solar Trailer?
>
>
> On 9/28/05, Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> How large of a panel is a 60V one? What is the current output
>> capability?
>> I am thinking that even then you would have only about 2 amps max of
> output
>> current.
>
>
http://shop.altenergystore.com/itemdesc~product~Sanyo+Hip-190ba3+190w+Pv+Pan
> el+-In+Stock~ic~SAN190BA3~eq~~Tp~.htm
>
>
>> To get enough to run the charger (240V 30 amp) you would need 60
>> amps of power from the panels. I am generalizing here so don't kill me
> for
>> my math.
>
> In the application mentioned you would be charging the batteries
> directly with the panels. Power is measured in Watts, not Amps :)
>
>
--
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--- Begin Message ---
There are a couple of people that I have seen that are doing that with the
trailer and a gas generator. The generator has to be above 6KW to be able
to run the charger. The only problem I can see with it is you might have to
get a permit or something since it is a trailer with an engine running on
it. I haven't looked into the legalities of that.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Whiteley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 11:36 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Battery or Generator Trailer
I finally got up enough guts to post on this list.
(This is my first post, please don't flame me. . lol )
This probably isn't a novel idea but as an effort to increase
the range of EV's, would it really be that bad to have either:
1. A optional trailer packed with batteries, for extended range
(just for those long trips)
OR
2. A optional gas generator packed in a little trailer for really
long trips.
This would effectively make the EV more useful for everyone. The
vehicle would run only on electricity most of the time but could use
some gas for demanding long trips (even several hundred miles). It's
as simple as hooking up a trailer (assuming the supporting electronics
are in place).
Please let me know if anyone does this, or if this has been hashed out
before. Thanks.
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>> My plan is to just laminate a steel pipe roll cage inside the foam
>> & composite.
>
> Temperature changes may cause cracking or "oil canning". Steel and
> fiberglass have considerably different expansion coefficients.
Hmm, I hadn't thought of this. However, the difference in CTE between
fiberglass and steel doesn't seem /that/ different to me.
FiberGlass 8.5 x 10-6 per deg C
Mild Steel 12.6 x 10-6
By my calculations, assuming a temperature swing of 55 deg c (ie 0-55 deg
C or 32-131 deg F), this works out to about 0.023% or less than 3/1000"
per foot.
I'm not entirely sure, but I believe this is within the modulus of
elasticity of fiberglass, isn't it?
Especially if I do the layup work at a temperature 1/2 way between these
two extremes, ie ~25 deg C (78 deg F)?
Anyone with experience working fiberglass AND knowledge of these
properties care to respond?
P.S. Thanks for pointing this out Lee.
>
> The worst case would be if you built something like a flat door or roof
> panel with a steel pipe perimeter frame, filled the space inside with a
> foam panel, and then fiberglassed over the outside. As the steel shrinks
> and expand differently with temperature, it will alternately stretch the
> fiberglass until it cracks, and shrink until the fiberglass rattles or
> oilcans in/out.
>
> If you can completely cover the steel with foam, and then fiberglass
> over that, the foam should absorb the dimensional changes with
> temperature.
> --
> The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
> -- Harlan Ellison
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
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--- Begin Message ---
> I am coming to this discussion pretty late and have
> not read the whole thread so excuse me if i ask for
> infromation you have already given. I have a trike
> with a 35 watt+- solar panel and 48 volts of agm batts
> right now I have not hooked the panel to the batts as
> the regulator from the solar company says it is only
> good for up to 24v.
-snip-
> read below I infer that a set of lee hart regulators
> will act as a charge controller. yes no ??
Actually we were talking about Lee's battery balancer which is different
from Lee's battery regulators.
The Balancer is one device that connects to all of your batteries at the
same time. Is uses a microprocessor, a voltmeter, a charger and a bunch
of relays.
At this point it is a do it yourself project, however I think Lee might be
getting ready to order a new set of circuit cards.
For you a simpler solution might be to use two panels like the one you
already have or buy a bunch of little panels.
If you are interested, the cheapest place I've found solar panels (~ $2.60
per watt) is:
http://www.theenergyalternative.com/energy_efficient_products/index.html?item=412
20 Panels for $65
Each panel is 5.6V @ 0.22 Amps
Wire them up as two series strings of 10 each add a blocking diode and you
can connect them directly across your pack. WIth only 10 you won't quite
bring the pack up to full charge, you could buy another set of two and
that should give you enough to fully charge the pack, though it might
overcharge it slightly if you don't use the trike for a couple days but
leave it in the sun.
20 of these panels equals roughly 25 watts. If you get 5 hours worth of
sun then you'll put approx 100 watthours back into the pack. That's not a
lot of energy.
> --- Lee Hart <leea [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>> > How do you handle the fact that the battery being
>> charged is now
>> > going to have the highest voltage in the pack? Do
>> you have a time
>> > delay before it can switch to another battery or
>> do you some how
>> > compensate for charging voltage?
>>
>> Yes. The basic algorithm is:
>>
>> - scan the batteries to get their voltages
>> - compute the average voltage
>> - find the lowest-voltage battery
>> - charge it for a time proportional to how much
>> below average it is
>> (usually no more than 10 minutes per battery)
>> - repeat
>>
>> So it scans the batteries every 10 minutes, and
>> charges the lowest ones
>> for a time proportional to how much below average
>> they are.
>>
>> > I never thought about using your balancer as the
>> sole source for
>> > charging. You might have mentioned this before and
>> I missed it.
>>
>> Yes, it can be used your only charger, or an
>> opportunity charge. Very
>> slow though, as it has to charge them one at a time.
>>
>> > This seems ideal for AGMs, especially Hawkers. You
>> could slug them
>> > with a high current charge and then move on and
>> allow them to cool,
>> > then come back and slug them again. Charging and
>> equalization at
>> > once, I like it.
>>
>> Yes, that's basically it!
>> --
>> If you would not be forgotten
>> When your body's dead and rotten
>> Then write of great deeds worth the reading
>> Or do the great deeds worth repeating
>> -- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
>> --
>> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
>> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> ...check the rules on any race associations you that you might ever try
racing under.
Racing?!?!? I will be overjoyed if it MOVES!
No slam on racers - I recognize and really appreciate that you guys work out
the bugs, push the limits and figure things out so I can play with all of
these cool toys. But we live in different worlds...
-Tim (who wants to get to work electrically)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lets say for discussion sake that there are 6 batteries on the motorcycle
system for a total of 72V. One panel could charge each battery
individually. You would have to have a relay for each battery correct?
Could the same thing be accomplished with a diode or maybe an SCR between
the batteries and the battery analyzer? Just a thought.
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter VanDerWal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 2:21 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Solar Trailer?
> You could use something like my Battery Balancer. The weakest battery
> limits your range -- so charge it! The Battery Balancer has a single 12v
> charging source, which can be connected to any battery with relays. It
> finds the lowest battery, and charges it. As that one charges, it
> periodically looks for the next one, charges it; and so on.
>
Hi Lee,
How do you handle the fact that the battery being charged is now going to
have the highest voltage in the pack? Do you have a time delay before it
can switch to another battery or do you some how compensate for charging
voltage?
I never thought about using your balancer as the sole source for charging.
You might have mentioned this before and I missed it.
This seems ideal for AGMs, especially Hawkers. You could slug them with a
high current charge and then move on and allow them to cool, then come
back and slug them again. Charging and equalization at once, I like it.
FWIW, to maximize your charging efficiency from the PV panel, you'd want
to use a MPPT. If you are using a MPPT, it seems to me it's just as easy
to boost the voltage up to some arbitrary pack voltage as it is to buck it
down to 12-15V.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is an awesome trailer! The inverter installed on it is incompatible
with a 115V charger though. It would be a great way to get a good idea
about how to make one for the motorcycle project though.
-----Original Message-----
From: Meta Bus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 2:04 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Solar Trailer?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6002539033
A solar trailer for y'all.
--- End Message ---
