EV Digest 4776
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Is it really okay to expose motor to the "elements"
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: S-10 Conversion Speed Sensor
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Another NEDRA rule question single or dual motor
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Designing for safety (was 'Re: Composite monocoque vs. sand buggy'
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Question on Heibao EV
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Is it really okay to expose motor to the "elements"
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Is it really okay to expose motor to the "elements"
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Another NEDRA rule question single or dual motor
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Idea for Park
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Designing for safety (was 'Re: Composite monocoque vs. sand
buggy'
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Newbie question.....
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Battery or Generator Trailer
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Solar Trailer?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Solar Trailer?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Another NEDRA rule question single or dual motor
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Combining Fiberglass and Steel (was Re: Designing for safety)
by "Kevin Caldwell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Blew up Diode bridge.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Solectria Force cars for sale in New Jersey]
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: another Solectria Sunrise All Composite EV Car Body on ebay
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Newbie question.....
by "Paul Compton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) DIY GenSet was Re: Battery or Generator Trailer
by Victor Reppeto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Blew up Diode bridge.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: S-10 Conversion Speed Sensor
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Sidecar Rig
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Paging Wayland
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Eric Poulsen wrote:
>
> With many conversions, the motor is often located near the underside of
> the car. I've read here that you shouldn't worry too much about the
> motor, but is it really okay with getting wet/dirty? What happens when
> you hit a big puddle, and have direct splash onto the motor?
Nothing, short term. Electric motors will work underwater. The problems
are mainly long-term, from rust or corrosion, or dirt getting on the
commutator or in the bearing so they wear out faster.
--
Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has! -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey John and others:
Well, the speed sensor is currently connected to an external speedo that
runs well. Only if I connect it to the integrated speedo, it gives me
crab. And I was talking to an Chevy mechanic who told me, that the speed
sensor runs through the PCM and from the PCM to the speedo. I don't know
though, if that guy just wanted to sell me a 300$ replacement PCM.
Question is: If I would have to use the PCM, is there any way to
circumvent it short of completely rebuilding/replacing the integrated
speedo? I am afraid that the stock speedo actually is just a meter and
that the speedo electronics is actually integrated into the (missing) PCM.
Michaela
> No computer involved. The variable reluctor sensor used for the
> speedo pickup generates a pulse whose amplitude is roughly
> proportional to the speed. The speedo usually has some sort of
> automatic gain control to accommodate the low voltage pulses at low
> speed. It is most likely that when the gain is up, the speedo is
> picking up interference from the motor controller.
>
> The first thing to do is to make sure the speedo wiring is located far
> away from any traction wiring. If that doesn't fix things then you
> should try running shielded twisted pair from the pickup to the
> speedo. If the problem is still there then you'll have to start
> looking for ground loops and/or tramp connections between the traction
> and 12 volt wiring.
>
> One other thing to check is to make sure your DC/DC converter isn't
> outputting trash onto the 12 volt side.
>
> John
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Problem is Jim is that while you did Waylands motor (s) for essentially
free, I doubt you can continue to do this, therefore what John D said about
checkbook wars is valid. However, if you do want to continue to work for
free, I will be happy to ship you a truck load of various motors for you to
get started on, LOL. Seriously tho, fine work on the Siamese 8, John was
lucky to hook up with you. I hope the powers that be do come up with a
workable solution. David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: Another NEDRA rule question single or dual motor
>
> Hey all
>
> Just couldn't resist throwing my two cents in here. What defines the term
"a motor"? Funny this post has come up as I've thought about this as I was
building the twins.
>
> Are they two? Or is it one?
>
>
>
> As to the Siamese 8 being able to run series / parallel. I can show that
you can do this with a single motor. As well? probably not as good as with
two motors but it can be done, and in fact will play with this ability.
This should not be a parameter for defining single vs. dual.
>
>
>
> Second, there are a few scissors lift pump motors that have 2 comm's (one
at both ends), on one common armature lamination stack (the steel body) with
no rear end knuckle. They are shorter and so do not need an inner bearing
support as Waylands motor needs. The twin comm. theory I feels goes out the
window here also.
>
>
>
> Now to insert a middle bearing support the armature stack has to be
separated. Now does the break in the lamination stack constitute it as a
double motor? I don't believe it does, but this would be the only ground
that could be debated.
>
>
>
> I would define a motor as electrical windings, contained in a shell, with
a single output shaft. As John Wayland stated it is unable to run without
the unit as a whole.
>
>
>
> As to the statement: Allowing such exotics to slip into the single motor
>
> Class is how checkbook wars get started to the detriment of all.
>
>
>
> I disagree, as I made no money on this (I could have), but did it to see
if I could?
>
> In fact I bet the whole affair didn't amount to over $100.00 from my shop.
I have no idea what the shaft materials ran but it couldn't have been that
bad. Now one could argue that I did it for the advertising as Wayland
sinnggggggs the praises of Hi-Torque.but in fact I did it because of the
tenacity of John's persistence. In fact he had talked to the guy I was
working for and "he" wanted nothing to do with it. Knowing that I wanted to
help John out I strung him along for months until I opened my shop. Along
the way John has become a good friend to me. Tim, Keith, Marko, as well as
many others all donated work to make a good car better. Why? Because
Wayland is a true statesman of the sport, and he lives it every day, and
works hard to achieve what he has attained. He is able to bring in others
who have skills in a particular area who are like-minded. It is no
different than if I built them for myself, or did it for John as a friend.
Further, if it wasn't for being!
> allowed
> to highly modify this motor I would not have gotten anywhere near as
involved as I have by doing something untried (in fact the motors came in
for basic pretty-up and vibration issues). For those who have been to my
shop they know it is not "the money" that allowed this design to happen but
the ability to do it that created their existence. I truely did it for the
challenge. I believe that allowing exotics is how this sport will be able
to launch to higher plateaus, and entice others to join the movement and try
new things.
>
>
>
> This is just my opinion and I have tried to remain nuetral and have no
real stake in it, so call it what you will : )
>
> On a side note: I've got Jays ADC 9 down to 14 ¼" in total length, which
is under Markos ADC8 @ 15" I say this, because I plan on using a pair of
Siamese 9's (I like the name X29) shortened down to the length of the
Siamese 8. So good luck on deciding and let me know as to what class I'll
need to run in. I know she won't be street legal, hehehehe.
>
>
>
> Cya
>
> Jim Husted
> Hi Torque Electric
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! for Good
> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Even if you don't ever race, something I didn't mention was the
racing safety rules are a good body of knowledge that'll help you
build a safer vehicle (especially the NEDRA rules).
--- Tim Stephenson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > ...check the rules on any race associations you that you might
> ever try
> racing under.
>
> Racing?!?!? I will be overjoyed if it MOVES!
>
> No slam on racers - I recognize and really appreciate that you guys
> work out
> the bugs, push the limits and figure things out so I can play with
> all of
> these cool toys. But we live in different worlds...
______________________________________________________
Yahoo! for Good
Donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim,
I am sure ZAP would tell you how to do it. They
requested the gonernor to be installed in the first
place.
However, if you get into an accident while going above
25MPH, you will have a big problem trying to talk to
your insurance company.
Ed Ang
--- Jim Persky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I just purchased a used Heibao EV (from ZAP, in
> Santa Rosa CA) and need
> to remove the governor so it goes over 25. Anyone
> have a clue on this? Anyone have experience with
> this vehicle? I'm new
> to EVs, (48 hours)
>
>
>
>
> thanks
> jim
>
>
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
To prevent dirt and water coming in the motor, I skirted the inner fenders all
the way down below the frame and to the bottom line of the wheel rim.
I used 1/8 neoprime rubber material that is attach with industrial strength 2
inch wide VELCRO that is waterproof. I wipe all the surfaces that these Velcro
strips attach to with alcohol and applied a 3-M car emblem glue to these
surfaces and let dry. Press the Velcro on to the dry glue.
The Velcro comes with a very good glue, but I find that using the emblem glue,
on surfaces that are not smooth, will attach better.
I also have the motor under pressure. I attach a Dayton 6 inch diameter 150
CFM blower fan with a 6 inch carb air filter on the inlet of the brush cover
which then blows the air and brush dust through the motor and out the back
grills.
I inspected the motor and it is still clean where the enamel motor paint looks
bright and new just like its was applied 20 years ago.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Lee Hart<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: Is it really okay to expose motor to the "elements"
Eric Poulsen wrote:
>
> With many conversions, the motor is often located near the underside of
> the car. I've read here that you shouldn't worry too much about the
> motor, but is it really okay with getting wet/dirty? What happens when
> you hit a big puddle, and have direct splash onto the motor?
Nothing, short term. Electric motors will work underwater. The problems
are mainly long-term, from rust or corrosion, or dirt getting on the
commutator or in the bearing so they wear out faster.
--
Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has! -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
Eric Poulsen wrote:
With many conversions, the motor is often located near the underside of
the car. I've read here that you shouldn't worry too much about the
motor, but is it really okay with getting wet/dirty? What happens when
you hit a big puddle, and have direct splash onto the motor?
Nothing, short term. Electric motors will work underwater. The problems
are mainly long-term, from rust or corrosion, or dirt getting on the
commutator or in the bearing so they wear out faster.
I know, I've run (small toy) electric motors underwater, when I was a
kid. Then they rusted and stopped working. This the part that worries
me about a $1000 motor.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
what John D said about checkbook wars is valid.
Of course it is valid. The sky is blue as well. 8^)
I've got a newsflash for you. Races can be won by smarts, sponsors, some
money and lots of hard work by talented people (Wayland's crew), or they
can be won by having deep pockets and throwing a lot of money at the
right people. Of course throwing lots of money around doesn't INSURE a
victory, but it sure helps.
Checkbook wars have ALWAYS been a big part of racing. In a perfect
world, money would not be a major factor, but that is the reality we all
live with.
Some types of class racing attempt to level the playing field by
strictly defining the components available for the race vehicles making
both tuning and driving skills the important factors, yet even under
these tightly defined class conditions race teams with deep pockets can
still purchase a significant competitive advantage by hiring the best
drivers, purchasing the best diagnostic gear and hiring the best chassis
and motor tuners.
Worrying about whether someone has the ability to buy a competitive
advange is foolish. It is a simple fact.
Considering that multiple motors are allowed in NEDRA without class
distinction (as far as I can tell from the info on the NEDRA site) and
considering that no millionares are trying to buy all the NEDRA records
yet, it all seems like a nice discussion in future possibilities, but
not really relevant so far.
Just my .02
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Weird -- I know many older brake shoe systems would auto-adjust when
used in reverse ... Never heard of one that required the hand brake.
Mike Chancey wrote:
A little side note on parking brakes. Some car designs REQUIRE the
periodic use of the parking brake to maintain the correct adjustment
of the rear brake shoes.
When I worked as an auto mechanic, we had a customer bring in an
imported station wagon for braking problems, I think it was a Nissan.
When it arrived I took it for a test drive. The first thing I noticed
was the brake pedal went way down when applying the brakes. The
second was the huge pile of papers, letters, and such piled on top of
the parking brake handle. I moved the papers to the passenger seat
and pulled the brake handle. It slid easily to its travel limit with
no tension on it almost like it wasn't connected to anything. I
released it and reapplied it about 30 times, each time the tension
became stronger and a clicking noise could be heard from the rear
brakes. Eventually it would stop before reaching the end of the
slide, and finally it stopped after only 3 clicks on the ratchet
pawl. I then released it and retried the primary brakes. They were
firm and the pedal stopped much much higher off the floor. A test
drive confirmed the brakes now worked as intended. The customer was
very surprised to learn that she was supposed use the parking brake
since the car was an automatic and had a "park" position. She had
owned the car since new and never used it. The service manual and the
owner's manual both stated that it had to be used regularly.
We did do a regular inspection of the brake system. There were no
other problems.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> You are confusing safety with strength. They are not the same thing. Crash
> safety requires a crushable structure to absorb the energy, as well as a
> safety cell to protect the occupants. Adding more material will not
> necessarily make a safer vehicle, in fact it can raise the G load that the
> occupant is subjected to and cause more injury.
NO I am not, the point of the roll cage is to provide a structure around
the passengers that won't collapse or crush. The crushable areas go
OUTSIDE the roll cage.
If I could build a suiteable structure out of composite, I would.
However, I don't know how to and I don't want to waste time and money
experimenting.
The Design of steel roll cages is well documented and I can even buy a
premade one.
This saves me the time and effort which I can then spend on the rest of
the vehicle.
> There is no substitute for engineering when it comes to designing a crash
> structure.
>
> Kevin Caldwell
> Courtenay, BC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of stU
> Sent: September 28, 2005 12:56 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: RE: Designing for safety (was 'Re: Composite monocoque vs. sand
> buggy'
>
>
>
>
>
>> Tim Stephenson wrote:
>>
>
> My plan is to just laminate a steel pipe roll cage inside the foam &
> composite.
> Might not be the lightest, but it WILL be safe(r) and not much heavier.
> You can do a good steel roll cage in about 100 lbs give or take. A lot
> Less
> for really small vehicles.
>
>
> Ditto here. Square or round, size and wall thickness?
>
> I'm thinking 1-1/2" square 0.125" wall.
>
> stU
>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Paul G. wrote:
No, the efficiency didn't double, the losses halved.
Isn't is saying the same thing?
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All,
You don't necessarily need a 6Kw genny, as it depends on what charger(s)
you're using. As far as a permit, I was told that it's based on your
primary motive power (at least in Colorado), which of course is eeelectric!
This is how I can get away with running two 20 pound propane BBQ tanks,
instead of an expensive DOT tank.
BB
>From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 06:03:05 -0400
>
>There are a couple of people that I have seen that are doing that with the
>trailer and a gas generator. The generator has to be above 6KW to be able
>to run the charger. The only problem I can see with it is you might have to
>get a permit or something since it is a trailer with an engine running on
>it. I haven't looked into the legalities of that.
<snip>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The fact that they cheaped out so much on the inverter leaves me doubting
that they went with quality components on the rest of the trailer. A
Sinewave inverter wouldn't have added that much to the cost, relatively
speaking.
Harbor Freight, and other places, sell similar trailers for about $200.
This might be a better one.
And they are selling it on Ebay. I think they should have started at a
more reasonable price. Perhaps I'm wrong and someone will buy it, we'll
see.
> On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 12:30:26 -0700 (MST), "Peter VanDerWal"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6002539033
>>>
>>> A solar trailer for y'all.
>>
>>
>>Hmm, that's kinda neat, but an opening bid of $7,500?
>>
>>Let's see:
>>Solar panels $1300
>>Batteries $ 400
>>Inverter $ 100 (it's a *modified* sine wave!!)
>>Trailer $ 200
>>====================
>>Total $2000
>>
>>275% profit. Damn, I'm in the wrong bussiness.
>
> With math like that, I certainly hope you don't find the "right
> business".
>
> I see at least $400 in the bare trailer, tires and wheels. I see at
> least a couple hundred dollars in NEMA 1 & 4 boxes. A couple hundred
> more in misc wiring. Probably another $100 in paint, if they used a
> quality automotive or even industrial paint. I see probably 40 hours
> of labor in putting all that together, at least for the first few.
> What's your labor worth?
>
> If you want to make a business out of making solar trailers, you'd
> better figure on at least doubling your direct cost and more typically
> tripling it to cover overhead, taxes and all the other stuff.
>
> $7.5k seems quite reasonable for what amounts to a hand-built custom
> product, if a solar trailer is what you want. $700 for a Honda
> EU2000i and a couple of cans of gasoline certainly sounds better to
> me.
>
> John
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Are you planning on having this ciruit around every cell? With the
typical voltage drop for each diode/transistor?
Assuming you are dropping 0.6V per cell and using a 120V pack, that means
you're loosing 36V across the diodes/transistors. That's 30% of your
power/energy wasted.
If you used FETs you could reduce this to only loosing perhaps 10% of your
power/energy.
I think you'd be better of just monitoring the cells and replacing one
when it goes bad.
> Hey Peter
> I'm sorry I should have been more clear on this
> suggestion...
>
> You would need two circuits, a charge circuit and a
> drive circuit. The drive circuit would have the diode
> allowing current out of the battery, and the charge
> circuit would only allowing current in to the battery
> ... a transistor with some digital circuitry would
> allow this... come to think of it, you could skip the
> diode and just use the transistors!
> Tom
>
>> And, is there something wrong with using a diode to
>> protect your batteries from trying to charge a low
>> cell??? like they do with solar cells to keep them
>> from trying to discharge your batteries.
>> Tom
>
> You mean asside from the fact that the diode would
> block current from flowing when you were trying to
> charge the pack?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Dave
I'm really a small fish as shops go, as I left the big shops 15 years ago to
move to Oregon to have a little nicer life style. Truckloads of motors even
being paid for would wait along time for delivery, lmao. Although I need to
eat and grow and have many thoughts as to where it all is leading. There are
two thoughts: Hay its custom, Cha-Ching! or hey this could change the world if
one does not become greedy and keep things affordable. I lean to the latter.
Face it racers need all the help they can get as they destroy stuff faster than
a daily would. Now Jay, he's a paying customer as well as was Doug Weathers,
but they were treated as gently as I could afford to do. Rod will be sending
me the toasted GP armature and although I'll need to cover my costs I plan to
throw in what I can to get her up and running with I hope some free pretting up
and new bearings. Hey if I won the lotto I'd build ya all a motor or two well
at least supervise, hehehehe. I guess the daily !
drivers
will be funds for my R&D for the racers who will test them to their limits
which in turn will produce better drive motors for you dailies to use. Trust
me I have a good wife with a sharp pin to keep my head from inflating to big.
I know for me the checkbook war seems to be keeping it in the plus side. Proud
to be a member of a great group of people and doing what I can to help.
Although I'm a small fish I'm hoping to still be able to stir a little silt
from the bottom of the pond.
Cya all
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
David Chapman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Problem is Jim is that while you did Waylands motor (s) for essentially
free, I doubt you can continue to do this, therefore what John D said about
checkbook wars is valid. However, if you do want to continue to work for
free, I will be happy to ship you a truck load of various motors for you to
get started on, LOL. Seriously tho, fine work on the Siamese 8, John was
lucky to hook up with you. I hope the powers that be do come up with a
workable solution. David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: Another NEDRA rule question single or dual motor
>
> Hey all
>
> Just couldn't resist throwing my two cents in here. What defines the term
"a motor"? Funny this post has come up as I've thought about this as I was
building the twins.
>
> Are they two? Or is it one?
>
>
>
> As to the Siamese 8 being able to run series / parallel. I can show that
you can do this with a single motor. As well? probably not as good as with
two motors but it can be done, and in fact will play with this ability.
This should not be a parameter for defining single vs. dual.
>
>
>
> Second, there are a few scissors lift pump motors that have 2 comm's (one
at both ends), on one common armature lamination stack (the steel body) with
no rear end knuckle. They are shorter and so do not need an inner bearing
support as Waylands motor needs. The twin comm. theory I feels goes out the
window here also.
>
>
>
> Now to insert a middle bearing support the armature stack has to be
separated. Now does the break in the lamination stack constitute it as a
double motor? I don't believe it does, but this would be the only ground
that could be debated.
>
>
>
> I would define a motor as electrical windings, contained in a shell, with
a single output shaft. As John Wayland stated it is unable to run without
the unit as a whole.
>
>
>
> As to the statement: Allowing such exotics to slip into the single motor
>
> Class is how checkbook wars get started to the detriment of all.
>
>
>
> I disagree, as I made no money on this (I could have), but did it to see
if I could?
>
> In fact I bet the whole affair didn't amount to over $100.00 from my shop.
I have no idea what the shaft materials ran but it couldn't have been that
bad. Now one could argue that I did it for the advertising as Wayland
sinnggggggs the praises of Hi-Torque.but in fact I did it because of the
tenacity of John's persistence. In fact he had talked to the guy I was
working for and "he" wanted nothing to do with it. Knowing that I wanted to
help John out I strung him along for months until I opened my shop. Along
the way John has become a good friend to me. Tim, Keith, Marko, as well as
many others all donated work to make a good car better. Why? Because
Wayland is a true statesman of the sport, and he lives it every day, and
works hard to achieve what he has attained. He is able to bring in others
who have skills in a particular area who are like-minded. It is no
different than if I built them for myself, or did it for John as a friend.
Further, if it wasn't for being!
> allowed
> to highly modify this motor I would not have gotten anywhere near as
involved as I have by doing something untried (in fact the motors came in
for basic pretty-up and vibration issues). For those who have been to my
shop they know it is not "the money" that allowed this design to happen but
the ability to do it that created their existence. I truely did it for the
challenge. I believe that allowing exotics is how this sport will be able
to launch to higher plateaus, and entice others to join the movement and try
new things.
>
>
>
> This is just my opinion and I have tried to remain nuetral and have no
real stake in it, so call it what you will : )
>
> On a side note: I've got Jays ADC 9 down to 14 ¼" in total length, which
is under Markos ADC8 @ 15" I say this, because I plan on using a pair of
Siamese 9's (I like the name X29) shortened down to the length of the
Siamese 8. So good luck on deciding and let me know as to what class I'll
need to run in. I know she won't be street legal, hehehehe.
>
>
>
> Cya
>
> Jim Husted
> Hi Torque Electric
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! for Good
> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
>
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is the CTE for the glass fibers themselves, not the composite with the
resin. The CTE for the composite depends on fiber orientation, resin type
and percentages of resin/glass, but is something like:
CTE, linear 20°C 24 - 40 µm/m-°C 13.3 - 22.2 µin/in-°F Average =
32.1 µm/m-°C; Grade Count=4
It is difficult to bond composites successfully to metals, and requires
careful surface prep.
Kevin Caldwell
Courtenay, BC
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal
Sent: September 29, 2005 4:21 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Combining Fiberglass and Steel (was Re: Designing for safety)
Hmm, I hadn't thought of this. However, the difference in CTE between
fiberglass and steel doesn't seem /that/ different to me.
FiberGlass 8.5 x 10-6 per deg C
Mild Steel 12.6 x 10-6
By my calculations, assuming a temperature swing of 55 deg c (ie 0-55 deg C
or 32-131 deg F), this works out to about 0.023% or less than 3/1000"
per foot.
I'm not entirely sure, but I believe this is within the modulus of
elasticity of fiberglass, isn't it?
Especially if I do the layup work at a temperature 1/2 way between these two
extremes, ie ~25 deg C (78 deg F)?
Anyone with experience working fiberglass AND knowledge of these properties
care to respond?
P.S. Thanks for pointing this out Lee.
>
> The worst case would be if you built something like a flat door or
> roof panel with a steel pipe perimeter frame, filled the space inside
> with a foam panel, and then fiberglassed over the outside. As the
> steel shrinks and expand differently with temperature, it will
> alternately stretch the fiberglass until it cracks, and shrink until
> the fiberglass rattles or oilcans in/out.
>
> If you can completely cover the steel with foam, and then fiberglass
> over that, the foam should absorb the dimensional changes with
> temperature.
> --
> The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
> -- Harlan Ellison
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic junk
at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I wish
with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The variac's are facing each other. Oh O.........I did have to use the
opposite tap to get them to sync. Would that change the phase?
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Massey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:59 AM
Subject: Re: Blew up Diode bridge.
At 07:36 PM 28/09/05 -0700, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
I combined the output of the two diode bridges and I think they blew up.
Before I combined them they worked fine. Now nothing. I thought I could
combine the output of my two variac's. They are in sync. Should I
combine on the AC side and use one bridge?
Hi Lawrence
If your variacs are running the same taps and same phase, and you joined
the rectifier +ves together and -ves together, there shouldn't have been a
problem. Coupling the variacs before the rectifier would also be OK,
provided the variacs match. If they are a little out of sync, it would be
better to couple after the rectifiers.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Only one Solectria Force left for sale in Morristown NJ ... see below.
Electric Station Car Sale
TransOptions will be offering Solectrica Force Electric Vehicles for sale.
The Electric cars were driven by groups of commuters from the Morristown Train
Station to participating work locations. At the end of each work day commuters
drive the station car back to the train station for overnight parking and
charging.
Vehicles have been professionally maintained, all have low mileage, under 14000
miles. ICS 200 charging units are included with sale. All vehicles have
decals on them, and are being sold in "as is" condition.
Cars are available for pick up at the Morristown train station, Morristown, NJ.
The project vehicles are 1997 Chevrolet Geo Metro Solectria Force 4-door sedans
(converted GEO Metros). A total of six cars are being offered for sale. Noted
below are conditions and asking prices for the vehicles.
If interested contact:
John Fiore
973-267-7600 x 101
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Or
Don Watt
973-267-7600 x 109
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Call for details.
Vehicle #
Vehicle ID #
Asking Price
Repairs Needed
5-D54
2C1MR5298V6720352
$6000
Problems Trans or Motor Controller (call for details)
--
Mike Bianchi
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"A low mileage vehicle can be converted back to gas or diesel if the body is
in great shape." Sad. They said the body is rust free and the curb weight
is over 8 thousand pounds. Seems high. Hard to believe a Mass. vehicle
would be rust free after 15 years. Still at 2300 opening bid seems worth it
to me with a 60 mile range. I'd be about 4 cents a mile to run.
LR.........
and a gmc ev van;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/EV-Battery-Power-Electric-GMC-Van-Truck-Chevy-Ford-Car_W0QQitemZ8003084863QQcategoryZ6763QQtcZphotoQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: Newbie question.....
Paul G. wrote:
No, the efficiency didn't double, the losses halved.
Isn't is saying the same thing?
--
Victor
Of course not!
It was 40% efficient and we doubled the efficiency to 80%.
It was 40% efficient and we halved the losses, making the efficiency 70%.
It was 90% efficient and we doubled the efficiency to 180%. (Who do you
think you are, Tilley?)
It was 90% efficient and we halved the losses, making the efficiency 95%.
Paul Compton
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
www.morini-mania.co.uk
www.compton.vispa.com/the_named
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have been digging for this info and I will eventually find it but I
thought I would ask here too.
My main questions are:
1) What would the emissions be on 10hp air cooled changfa diesel
running at 3600 rpms linked to an etek motor if it was running biodeisel?
2) Can I just run a couple of 2/0 cables direct to my batteries if I
only start the ice once I am already on the freeway? Or do I need to add
a capacitor to smooth out the spikes in voltage? I read in a book I
borrowed from the library this is possible with a minimal circuit but
the book did not say how.
3) At 3600 rpm's how many volts and amps would an etek motor be
putting out?
4) What volts do I need it to put out to charge a 48v pack?
5) Can I protect the controller, rated at 48v, from the increased
voltage coming from the generator with a voltage regulator between the
batteries and the controller? Does this drain power into resistors? How
do I build that?
6) Has somebody else thought of a particular consideration I have not
addressed here?
These design considerations are specific as they apply to mobile
charging a battery that is simultaneously under load so I do not feel it
is off topic.
Other Questions are:
Anybody know how to add a scrubber to reduce particulates? After or
instead of the scrubber could I add an off the shelf catalytic converter?
If I enclose it in an insulated box with airflow and exhaust it
through a 5 gallon paint can (perforated steel tubing routed back and
forth inside the can before exiting) stuffed with steel wool would this
be enough to mostly silence it?
I have to do this myself because I refuse to pay 2k dollars for a
genset that has no muffler to speak of and no catalytic converter which
decreases emissions by hundreds to thousands of times. And I do not
have 5k dollars to have someone else do it. I also cannot afford to
maintain extra vehicles just for long trips.
If someone has an idea for a way to incorporate an ice into the
drive train in parallel that is just as simple then I would like to hear
about it.
Victor R
Salem, Oregon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's a 240vac variac. Two hots and that is it. Ground goes to frame.
LR.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael A. Radtke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: Blew up Diode bridge.
Lawrence,
I agree with James. But ...
The internal wiring of all variacs should be the same. The common on
the input side should be a pass through to the common on the output
side. The input is applied across the entire coil, and the hot output
is the slider. If your variacs are wired this way you are OK. If one
of the variacs is wired with the hot and common swapped, the outputs can
still be chosen so that they are phase. However, at non unity, but
equal, settings of both variacs there will be a voltage offset BETWEEN
the two variac outputs. This will lead to undesirable results if you
try to combine them.
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 06:47:25 -0500 (CDT), "Michaela Merz"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Hey John and others:
>
>Well, the speed sensor is currently connected to an external speedo that
>runs well. Only if I connect it to the integrated speedo, it gives me
>crab. And I was talking to an Chevy mechanic who told me, that the speed
>sensor runs through the PCM and from the PCM to the speedo. I don't know
>though, if that guy just wanted to sell me a 300$ replacement PCM.
GM has a bad habit of doing it both ways, running some signals through
the PCM and some direct to the speedo. The only way to tell is either
find a service manual or trace out the wiring.
I doubt that yours goes through the PCM because the speedos that look
for logic level signals generally don't do anything when hooked to the
raw encoder.
>
>Question is: If I would have to use the PCM, is there any way to
>circumvent it short of completely rebuilding/replacing the integrated
>speedo? I am afraid that the stock speedo actually is just a meter and
>that the speedo electronics is actually integrated into the (missing) PCM.
How familiar with electronics are you and/or what resources
(neighborhood boy genius, etc) do you have to call on?
You'd need a buffer/signal conditioner to change the sensor signal
into a logic level signal that the speedo would digest.
My first down'n'dirty approach would be to look at the external speedo
since it works. I'd open it up and poke around with a meter or scope
until I found a buffered version of the signal. I'd tap into that and
run it to the OEM speedo and test it. If that worked, I'd yank the
circuit board out of the external speedo, permanently connect the
wires to the board and then tuck it up under the dash somewhere.
A simple zero crossing detector could be whipped out with a chip or
two but I always try to use something that already almost does the job
whenever possible.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone built a electric side car rig?
Vogel built an electric Harley with a biodiesel generator in the
sidecar.
http://vogelbuilt.com
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry list,
John Wayland, please reply off list (as I recall your
@europa.com return address has changed and may no longer
be valid).
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
