EV Digest 4784
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) 914 weight balance
by Ben Apollonio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: 914 weight balance
by "Sharon Hoopes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) SOC
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: crimper tools
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) website for Siemens motors
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: We got the Sunrise !!!
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Orbital XCD stacking
by Ben Apollonio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Battery charging in parallel (A Different Idea) Lee?
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: performance problems
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: 914 weight balance
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Solar Trailer?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Is it really okay to expose motor to the "elements"
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Practical Aero MC, RE: Streamlined Scooters
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: 914 weight balance
by "Sharon Hoopes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: We got the Sunrise !!!
by "David C. Navas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Is it really okay to expose motor to the "elements"
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Orbital XCD stacking
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: website for Siemens motors
by Osmo Sarin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: performance problems
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Street Conversion vs Modified Conversion
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: We got the Sunrise !!!
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I'm looking for advice on maintaining adequate weight balance on my
914. I know many people on this list either have 914's or have had
experience with them, so I figure this is as good a place as any to
start. My car will have a 9" ADC, stock transmission, and 16 Orbitals
(or possibly YTs, although I hear they're not to be trusted anymore).
Right now, I'm building a battery box to put four of the batteries up
front, where the gas tank used to live. I can't fit more than four up
there if I size my battery box for Orbitals with the side terminals.
This means the remaining 12 would likely go in the engine compartment.
I'm wondering how bad this would be for my weight balance, particularly
if I had to stop quickly or turn sharply to avoid an obstacle. One
alternative would be to put two more batteries in the front trunk, but
I don't really want to put more weight up front on those poor torsion
bars than I have to. I don't really have any way of measuring what the
car's original or unloaded weights are, so I'm don't have the numbers
I'd need to maintain the original balance.
In your opinion/experience, what's the best way to arrange things?
Thanks
-Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill & Sharon Hoopes
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [Original Message]
> From: Ben Apollonio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Date: 10/2/2005 11:54:04 AM
> Subject: 914 weight balance
>
> I'm looking for advice on maintaining adequate weight balance on my
> 914. I know many people on this list either have 914's or have had
> experience with them, so I figure this is as good a place as any to
> start. My car will have a 9" ADC, stock transmission, and 16 Orbitals
> (or possibly YTs, although I hear they're not to be trusted anymore).
> Right now, I'm building a battery box to put four of the batteries up
> front, where the gas tank used to live. I can't fit more than four up
> there if I size my battery box for Orbitals with the side terminals.
> This means the remaining 12 would likely go in the engine compartment.
> I'm wondering how bad this would be for my weight balance, particularly
> if I had to stop quickly or turn sharply to avoid an obstacle. One
> alternative would be to put two more batteries in the front trunk, but
> I don't really want to put more weight up front on those poor torsion
> bars than I have to. I don't really have any way of measuring what the
> car's original or unloaded weights are, so I'm don't have the numbers
> I'd need to maintain the original balance.
>
> In your opinion/experience, what's the best way to arrange things?
>
> Thanks
> -Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I went for a drive, about 3-4 miles one way. Forgot my wallet and headed
home and then I had to creep home, I am not sure if it was the zilla got
hot or if my batteries were totally dead, I havent hooked up the water yet.
I was trying to get it over to the shop to build more battery racks. It
seemed to be ok cruising then would suddenly cut out while trying to
accelerate from stop sign. I don't know what dead batteries feels
like, this seems like the zilla got warm because of the sharp change.
But the first 3 miles was great, kept up with traffic, no problem. The
way home was 4 blocks then let cool/recover, then 2 blocks, then 1 block.
After sitting over night the pack was at 216Volts 17 orbitals * 12.8 =
217.6 so I thought it was close to fully charged.
but it can't be correct; 6 miles second half 2 blocks at a time.
I am rechargeing now and i wanted to ask how full is the pack when you
just hit the acceptance charge voltage of 14.4/cell ? = 245V (Is 14.4
the proper acceptance voltage? how do I tempeture compensate?) is it
almost full or 80% full?
I don't have regs yet so I am manually balancing with a 12V charger till
it hits 14.7. I am afraid that means they are 80% charged only and need
2 more hours at 1.5 amps
PS. Vacuum pump seems top work fine.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Golub wrote:
> I was wondering how the "hammer" crimper compares to
> the handle one.
Someone on this list suggested using the hammer crimper with a arbor
press instead of a hammer:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=3552
Seems like a good idea.
This page has some interesting items on it:
http://www.weldingsupply.com/cgi-bin/einstein.pl?Next::1:UNDEF:OR:A2::PA
I don't know if these charts/guides would be of any use or not:
http://www.aiwc.com/catalogsection/catalogpdfs/pccatalog/amweld_weld.pdf
> Do they make 3/0 terminals?
This place has 3/0 terminals for example:
http://www.waytekwire.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone know the URL for the Siemens website listing their AC induction
EV propulsion motors that Victor sells at www.metricmind.com/motor.htm. I
tried www.siemensvdo.com but didn't find them there.
Thanks,
Charles
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Oct 2, 2005, at 11:33 AM, jerry dycus wrote:
We need to come up with a new name as we can't use Sunrise and
it will be modified to improve it so it won't be anyway.
That shouldn't be too difficult.
Aerial - lightweight, airy, clean air, aerodynamic, aerial view from
above
4Free - four-passenger Freedom EV, freedom from gasoline, run it "for
free"
RealEV - down-to-earth, practical, buy it today
Current - electrical, up-to-date, flowing stream
Dawn - what happens after the Sunrise (say, that's pretty good!)
Cruise, Tour - comfortable, long-distance travel, group of people
That should get us started!
I hereby release these names into the public domain. Use them as you
will.
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
People have in the past been quite helpful about delivering size specs
for the Orbital XCD -- I was able to dig through my local archive of EV
list messages (over 40,000 at this point) and find almost everything I
need. However, the one thing I haven't been able to determine with any
certainty is how closely they can be placed side-by-side. Let me
elaborate:
The orbital main body (below the lid) is apparently 6 1/4" wide, with
1/4" plastic ribs on the bottom, making it a total of 6 3/4" wide
(neglecting the side terminals). The top is apparently 6 5/8" wide
without the side terminals, which add an extra 3/8," but which look as
if they might partially tuck under the top piece of the next battery.
So, if I were to place two side-by-side, how much of a gap would there
be between the two batteries? I'm guessing the two 1/4" plastic ribs
at the bottom would be the limiting factor in how close they got,
resulting in a 1/4" gap, with the ends of the side terminals tucking
under the lid of the next battery 1/8". Therefore, in building battery
boxes to fit the bottom of the battery, I would assume a width of 6
3/4" each. Is this correct?
Thanks
-Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So maybe the solution would be to pair up the batteries and charge them in
sequence with more amperage? Or maybe use more than one charger and split
up the chores in two switch assemblies?
-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 2:10 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Battery charging in parallel (A Different Idea) Lee?
stU wrote:
> I like the idea of a rotating switch to charge each battery. I would
> rotate [it] after the charge complete light turns off... That way an
> intelligent charger can be used... and each battery is charged in
> its own pattern.
This works great if you always have enough time to charge all the
batteries. But you're in trouble if you need to use the EV, and drive
off before the last battery gets charged. All the batteries are full
except one -- it goes dead early and gets murdered!
> If you have a weak battery, the others may never see the charger.
> Perhaps a compromise. You know that the batteries require X Amp-hours.
> Switch for X- Amp-hours and then dwell on each until the charger is
> satisfied that its job is done.
This is basically what my Balancer does. I have a bulk charger that
charges all the batteries in series to about 80% SOC. Then it is turned
off, and the Balancer charges each battery individually to "full". This
way, if you have to drive off "early", you can be assured that all
batteries are equally charged. Or if you are in the balancing phase,
that all batteries have at least an 80% charge.
However, I am cycling between batteries while balancing. It rotates
through all the batteries about once per hour. Since I have 12
batteries, it charges each for about 5 minutes, then moves on to the
next one. What this means is that each battery:
- sits 55 minutes
- the balancer measures its voltage, and estimates state of charge
based on voltage
- if not yet full, it gets charged for 5 minutes
- repeat until full
As I described earlier, the actual charge time varies depending on the
*relative* voltage of each battery. One battery might get 1 minute per
hour, another 10 minutes per hour.
> This multi charger or the switchable charger eliminates heavy cable
> switching. The light gauge charging wiring can be permanently
> installed to a plug.
Well, maybe. My Balancer uses 30amp relays and #10 wire. It actually
charges each battery at 15 amps max. To put 30 amphours in a dozen
batteries (my normal 50% discharge) with just the one-at-a-time Balancer
would take over 24 hours.
> In fact, both series and individual charging could be simultaneous
> with intelligent chargers.
Yes; as long as their outputs are isolated.
--
"One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the
shore for a very long time." -- Andre Gide
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Are you using the controller to go in reverse or a gear? If it is a gear my
bet is something is wrong with the transmission. If you are reversing a DC
motor to get reverse I think the brushes are totally in the wrong advance
position for reverse operation.
As for the 12V going dead problem my thought is the DC/DC converter.
Disconnect it and let it sit for a week and see what happens. Otherwise use
the standard "pull a fuse" until you find it technique on the 12V DC bus
line.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ross Henderson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 2:39 PM
To: ev list
Subject: performance problems
Gentlemen, I have a 20 battery 120 Volt pick-up truck. I just bought the
truck fully converted from a man in Michigan who did a great job on it. I'm
happy with the truck but I do have some problems. First, the truck skips,
bucks, stutters and jumps like a bunny rabbit in reverse (no clutch). I
thought this was a non use thing when I test drove the truck but it hasn't
gone away. (DCP Raptor 600 controller) What can I do to fix this?
Secondly, the 12 Volt system looses charge when allowed to sit for a week or
more. The key wasn't even in the truck, no lights / radio left on, etc.
Could I have a faulty ignition switch? Signed, new guy in western North
Carolina (Ross)
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It sounds like you are putting them in the right spot. Maybe you can go two
rows of six since you really don't have to get to the bottom 6 in the back.
Just be careful not to put them too close together so they won't touch.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Apollonio [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 2:47 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: 914 weight balance
I'm looking for advice on maintaining adequate weight balance on my
914. I know many people on this list either have 914's or have had
experience with them, so I figure this is as good a place as any to
start. My car will have a 9" ADC, stock transmission, and 16 Orbitals
(or possibly YTs, although I hear they're not to be trusted anymore).
Right now, I'm building a battery box to put four of the batteries up
front, where the gas tank used to live. I can't fit more than four up
there if I size my battery box for Orbitals with the side terminals.
This means the remaining 12 would likely go in the engine compartment.
I'm wondering how bad this would be for my weight balance, particularly
if I had to stop quickly or turn sharply to avoid an obstacle. One
alternative would be to put two more batteries in the front trunk, but
I don't really want to put more weight up front on those poor torsion
bars than I have to. I don't really have any way of measuring what the
car's original or unloaded weights are, so I'm don't have the numbers
I'd need to maintain the original balance.
In your opinion/experience, what's the best way to arrange things?
Thanks
-Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 2 Oct 2005 07:16:49 -0700 (MST), "Peter VanDerWal"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> You would have to try the charger on it to find out. I myself have never
>> run a charger off of an inverter - only off of a generator.
>>
>
>Probably not a good idea with a "Modified" sinewave inverter. Many
>devices not only do not work with them, but will be destroyed if you 'try
>it to find out'.
>
>Best bet is to ask the manufacturer of the charger if it will work on a
>modified sinewave inverter.
Every charger I've ever tried worked just fine on several different
modified square wave inverters. The only charger that didn't work was
a Dewalt capacitor-regulated NiCad charger. No surprise there.
No reason to expect any solid state or transformer charger not to
work.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I couldnt see any pictures of the Zilla on your site. Cool car though -
what kind of range can you get out of it at 60 mph? Are you serious on ther
when you say you have spent nearly 90,000 on your conversion?
-----Original Message-----
From: Roland Wiench [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 11:55 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Is it really okay to expose motor to the "elements"
Hello Jody,
The Zilla when mounted with the motor and battery terminals are the right
side, there are two 3/8-inch nylon hose 90 degree hose fittings that point
down ward on the lift side.
On the left side or the passenger side inner fender, I have a GM remote
filler tank that is used for radiators that set lower than the engine. This
tank has a pressure cap that has a small overflow line off the neck that
would go to a overflow tank. I do not use a overflow tank, because the
Zilla never gets up over 13 lbs pressure of which the cap is rated for.
This fill tank mounted on the inner fender, so its slightly higher than the
Zilla has a 3/8 nylon hose stub in it, which I connected a 3/8 hose from the
lower hose stub on the Zilla to this tank.
Out the bottom edge of this tank there is a 3/4 inch nylon stub which is
connected directly to a Maxi-Jet 1200 Multi-Use Pump which can be used as a
stand alone pump above water or as a Submersible Pump. Its made by
Marineland. http://www.marineland<http://www.marineland/>. I pick my up at
a fish store.
This Maxi-Jet pumps are 120 volt AC, so used a small DC-AC inverter will
work. It draws less than 1 amp.
In using this type of pump, don't used the pickup attachment that is
normally lower in a fish tank. This pump has a 3/4 plastic stub inlet,
which I coupler right to the 3/4 inch stub on the fill tank. Fits tight
enough where you do not need any clamps.
This pump has a 3/8 plastic stub for a hose, which I ran down to a small oil
cooler or you could used a transmission cooler too. This oil cooler is
mounted in front of my A/C radiator which already has a electric fan on it.
I went into the top line of the oil cooler which is pushing warmer coolant
down and out the lower line. Off the lower line of the oil cooler, I went
to a large brass X fitting or a cross fitting with 1/2 inch pipe thread. A
short 3/8 hose ran from the oil cooler to a this 1/2 inch cross with a 3/8
to 1/2 pipe adapter.
Coming off the bottom of the this 1/2 inch cross, is a 1/2 brass standard
radiator drain value. A coolant temperature sensor which requires 1/2 pipe
thread, screws in this cross also. It runs to a existing Stewart Warner
water temperature gage.
Coming off the top of this 1/2 inch cross is a 3/8 hose than runs all the
way to the Zilla top 3/8 hose stub. This forces cooler water downward
through the Zilla.
So the circulation loop is from lower 3/8 stub on the Zilla to the 3/8 inlet
stub of the holding tank. Holding tank 3/4 outlet hose to the pump 3/4 hose
stub. From the Pump 3/8 hose stub to the top of the cooler radiator and from
the bottom of this cooler back up to the top 3/8 hose stub on the Zilla.
I also have a temperature sensor that comes off the aluminum bar, that holds
both hose stubs on the Zilla which is attach to the Zilla heat sinks. This
was a existing engine Stewart Warner engine temperature gage I used.
The temperatures of the coolant and heatsink never went above 99 degrees
while the coolant system was running. If the underhood temperature read 140
degrees if the EV is setting out in the hot sun but the ambient temp is
between 90 and 95 degrees. The initial temperature will read 140 degrees,
but when the cooling system runs, its will quickly drop down to the outside
ambient temperature.
Here in Montana, it does not get that hot for long period of times. It
might get 100 degrees during the daytime, but gets 40 to 50 degrees at
night.
If you are in a area where the ambient temperature gets hotter than that,
than you could experiment by wrapping the outlet 3/8 line coming back up
from the transmission cooler around the A/C line, the one that feels cold.
After you wrap it tight over a length of this hose, than insulated with that
double wall black A/C foam insulation that has a glue split edge for
fastening together. They have black plastic split caps to slide over the
ends to seal it or you could just tape it with 3-M Scotch 88 tape.
I have no detail pictures on this, because everything is so tight in this
car. You can see the top layout of this EV by just typing in Google search
engine.
Roland Wiench 1977 El Camino Electro
You will notice that there is a gray enclosure back near the firewall which
the Zilla is under. There is also a 6 inch Dayton filter blower fan on this
unit.
The coolant lines come off the Zilla and go down and to the white fill nylon
tank you see that is mounted on the left inner fender. Off the bottom edge
of this tank, which you cannot see, is the Maxi-Jet 1200 pump attach to.
Then there are lines that go to the oil cooler that is mounted in front of
the A/C radiator, which also you cannot see, but is below the the A/C
radiator top plate.
If you notice that there is a pressure cap coming threw this top radiator
holding plate, this is for the electric hot water system for the car. There
is only a 3 inch diameter by 36 inch long copper pipe used as a pressurize
fill and holding tank for the heating system. There is no radiator for this
unit.
All my cooling fans, cooling pumps, heating pumps, hot water heating and two
under dash cab heaters are all 120 VAC 60 HZ. I used a 5 KW 120 VAC
Inverter with two 25 amp circuit breakers and recepticles. This is power by
the large Delco Alternator/Inverter you see on the right side. This unit
can provide both 12 to 15 VDC and 120 VAC at 7000 watts at the same time.
If all these units are power up or at maximum load that is power off the
pilot shaft of the motor, and when the ampere of the batteries read 0 amps,
all these units are still providing output. Its also provides a mechanical
resistance, which will slow my car going down a slick icy hill.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 'ev@listproc.sjsu.edu'<mailto:'ev@listproc.sjsu.edu'>
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 7:04 AM
Subject: RE: Is it really okay to expose motor to the "elements"
I have not seen the water cooling portion of the Zilla controller. Does
someone have it already set up with pictures that I could see? Are there
tubes on the back or something? What kind of waterpump is needed? How
much
flow/minute? Would a 9 tube transmission cooler work well?
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Coate [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 11:21 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Is it really okay to expose motor to the "elements"
One of the advantages of Zillas being water cooled is that you can put
the entire controller + hairball set up in its own compartment,
protected from the elements.
Now I'm wondering how much water (New England weather and living close
to the coast) had to do with my DCP woes of days gone by.
Bob Rice wrote:
> anything becides a contacter, THEY work wet, controller you hafta
protect
> it from ANY water. EVen on super damp drippy CT weather was enough to
put
> the fire out on a Rapter and T Rex! Washing the car too enthusticly,
loused
> it up even, used a hair dryer to get it dried out dso it would work.
Nothing
> more depressing than a dead Squalid state controller after you have had
a
> contacter setup!That ya built and know how to troubleshoot.
>
> I don't know if Otmar sealed anything up on Zillas, I hope so,
because
> most of my Stupid Stuff failures with DCP's stuff was water related.
> Origional smoke is still in my Raptures, just they would die in their
sleep,
> nothing dramatic.
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com<http://www.eeevee.com/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jody and All,
"Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
So you are saying widen it
It's just so uncorftable I wouldn't use it at all most as it will be
near impossible to find a optically useful windshield for the one he recommend
that is great for record setting but I'm talking for real world use.
and put holes in the bottom to put the feet out
under?
My design never had a bottom to put holes into and you can't get your
feet caught in the fairing aft as it's not there in my version. One could put a
rubber flap if one wanted the max benefit.
It would be a fun project thats for sure. I am thinking that
putting that over my CB900 wouldnt be a very good idea though.
It would if you got rid of those stinking pistons and replace them
with a cool EV drive, batts.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
-----Original Message-----
From: jerry dycus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 10:53 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Practical Aero MC, RE: Streamlined Scooters
Hi Jody and All,
"Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" wrote:
how the heck do you put your feet down on a bike like that? I would love to
build one of those just to see if it could be done!
That's just the begining. Where do you put your head as most
would like to take it along ;^D
I'd widen it with a 6-12" strip along the centerline so to be
able to turn the handlebars and raise the rear for head clearance but you
will have a hard time with a windshield for it.
Better, cheaper, more practical would be to get some clear,
thin, say 1/16" Lexan and bend it around the front of the chosen bike as
tightly as the handlebars turning radius allows, a small front wheel helps
here to keep it small, and attach itto the frame just aft the handle bars.
Then make doors for each side that come back to behind the
rider that rest on a back rollbar/frame by spring loading it to close. Then
add a roof to the front top of the windshield which should lean aft at the
top as much and be as low as possible, taking the roof aft to the
rollbar/frame behind the driver.
Your feet then work just as they always did.
This will give you almost as good aero but is much more
practical and cost under $200 total with your labor.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick 'Sharkey' Moore [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 11:48 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Streamlined Scooters
if anyone here is seriously considering making a streamlined
two-wheeler, this might be of interest:
http://www.craigvetter.com/pages/470MPG/high%20mileage%20fairing.html
-----sharks
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have 8-105 in front 10- 105 in mid-eng. & 4 more inback of tranny.
Bill & Sharon Hoopes
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [Original Message]
> From: Sharon Hoopes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Date: 10/2/2005 12:15:00 PM
> Subject: RE: 914 weight balance
>
>
>
> Bill & Sharon Hoopes
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Ben Apollonio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > Date: 10/2/2005 11:54:04 AM
> > Subject: 914 weight balance
> >
> > I'm looking for advice on maintaining adequate weight balance on my
> > 914. I know many people on this list either have 914's or have had
> > experience with them, so I figure this is as good a place as any to
> > start. My car will have a 9" ADC, stock transmission, and 16 Orbitals
> > (or possibly YTs, although I hear they're not to be trusted anymore).
> > Right now, I'm building a battery box to put four of the batteries up
> > front, where the gas tank used to live. I can't fit more than four up
> > there if I size my battery box for Orbitals with the side terminals.
> > This means the remaining 12 would likely go in the engine compartment.
> > I'm wondering how bad this would be for my weight balance, particularly
> > if I had to stop quickly or turn sharply to avoid an obstacle. One
> > alternative would be to put two more batteries in the front trunk, but
> > I don't really want to put more weight up front on those poor torsion
> > bars than I have to. I don't really have any way of measuring what the
> > car's original or unloaded weights are, so I'm don't have the numbers
> > I'd need to maintain the original balance.
> >
> > In your opinion/experience, what's the best way to arrange things?
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>This really isn't the EV for that as the Front wheel drive
I'm surprised. I would have thought a rear-wheel driven car would
be easy enough to build. But then, I don't have any of the
schematics :) I would have thought it would be more reliable
that way -- less suspension nonsense, easier to get 50-50
balance, etc.
>But it can do quite well with a 1k zilla which with it's
>lightweight body, chassis, could easily beat most production cars
>in the 1/4 mile.
I think you'll do fine if you get gutsy 30-60mph acceleration.
That's more practical, I think, than the real torquey 0-30mph
takeoffs. You should easily outpace a Prius, at least. If
you can accelerate at the same pace as the EV1, you'll not have
many complaints, I would think. That was low 7s, for the PbA
version, iirc.
>[AC vs. DC]
AC would be safer (no fail-on mode), can do regen, but requires
higher gearing, higher voltage, and generally more cash. I'd
prefer AC as well, but, we'd need a line on a cheap set. I wouldn't
mind paying $5k for the extra goodies over the $2k DC line. But,
I'm just one datapoint. And $5k is going to be tough to find, too.
>I'll be heading up to Bob's place to pick the body up this coming
>week so will be great to see it, Bob in person. Bob Rice should be
>thanked as without him sticking his neck out and doing all he has
>done, this never would have happened.
Indeed, you both did great.
BTW, does the original interior and framing have the braces for the
child car seat clips in the backseat? That's easy to overlook if
you haven't driven with kids. And, as long as I'm raising the subject
of the back seat ... 40-60 fold down? [heh -- I'll stop now :)]
-Dave
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Further down in the post Roland says "You will notice that there is a gray
enclosure back near the firewall which the Zilla is under"
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 1:01 PM
Subject: RE: Is it really okay to expose motor to the "elements"
>I couldnt see any pictures of the Zilla on your site. ?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roland Wiench [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 11:55 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Is it really okay to expose motor to the "elements"
> You will notice that there is a gray enclosure back near the firewall which
> the Zilla is under. There is also a 6 inch Dayton filter blower fan on this
> unit.
> Roland
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Ben,
I would say, if any of the batteries don't have any higher voltage between each
roll of more than 72 volts, touching together may work.
I have Trojan T-145's that are 6 to a roll and have a maximum of 72 volts
between any two batteries. The Trojan battery edges have a multi-ribs which
may resist any voltage tracking, more than a smooth edge.
I have no problem with voltage tracking from one battery to the next, maybe
it's because I keep them super clean all the time and they are lay in a 1 inch
thick bed of baking soda in a enclose box that is ventilated at 150 CFM blower
fans.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Apollonio<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 1:25 PM
Subject: Orbital XCD stacking
People have in the past been quite helpful about delivering size specs
for the Orbital XCD -- I was able to dig through my local archive of EV
list messages (over 40,000 at this point) and find almost everything I
need. However, the one thing I haven't been able to determine with any
certainty is how closely they can be placed side-by-side. Let me
elaborate:
The orbital main body (below the lid) is apparently 6 1/4" wide, with
1/4" plastic ribs on the bottom, making it a total of 6 3/4" wide
(neglecting the side terminals). The top is apparently 6 5/8" wide
without the side terminals, which add an extra 3/8," but which look as
if they might partially tuck under the top piece of the next battery.
So, if I were to place two side-by-side, how much of a gap would there
be between the two batteries? I'm guessing the two 1/4" plastic ribs
at the bottom would be the limiting factor in how close they got,
resulting in a 1/4" gap, with the ends of the side terminals tucking
under the lid of the next battery 1/8". Therefore, in building battery
boxes to fit the bottom of the battery, I would assume a width of 6
3/4" each. Is this correct?
Thanks
-Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Siemens EV department for passenger vehicle AC drives doesn't exist
anymore. There is a department which develops large drives for busses
for
example:
http://www2.automation.siemens.com/ld/bahnen/html_00/elfa/elfa-01.html
Osmo
2.10.2005 kello 18:30, Charles Whalen kirjoitti:
Does anyone know the URL for the Siemens website listing their AC
induction
EV propulsion motors that Victor sells at
www.metricmind.com/motor.htm. I
tried www.siemensvdo.com but didn't find them there.
Thanks,
Charles
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Oct 2, 2005, at 11:39 AM, Ross Henderson wrote:
Gentlemen, I have a 20 battery 120 Volt pick-up truck. I just bought
the truck fully converted from a man in Michigan who did a great job
on it. I'm happy with the truck but I do have some problems. First,
the truck skips, bucks, stutters and jumps like a bunny rabbit in
reverse (no clutch). I thought this was a non use thing when I test
drove the truck but it hasn't gone away. (DCP Raptor 600 controller)
What can I do to fix this? Secondly, the 12 Volt system looses charge
when allowed to sit for a week or more. The key wasn't even in the
truck, no lights / radio left on, etc. Could I have a faulty ignition
switch? Signed, new guy in western North Carolina (Ross)
Is the tach pickup/ rev limiter hooked up? (its one of the possible
phone cable connections to a DCP, the other would be used for the
remote LEDs) If so try disconnecting that and see if the problem
clears. Sometimes the pickup develops bad connections to the cable and
causes all sorts of problems. In the Pickup I sold this had to be
disconnected for the Pickup to work right. The other potential problem
is that a few DCPs have developed a bad connection on an internal plug.
Even that shouldn't be to hard to fix but you may as well start with
the easy stuff.
One note is that EVs can be pretty wild in reverse. They are often
driven from stoplights in 2nd gear because they have so much torque. It
can be tricky to gracefully apply throttle in the lower reverse gear.
Of course this shouldn't result in any loss of power, but can make it
all to easy to bark the tires (and then release the throttle suddenly
because you are startled.) B series Curtis controllers are the worst at
this. I don't back-up my buggy without one hand holding up on the
parking brake a little.
I doubt your 12v problem is with the ignition switch. EVs often have a
very small 12 volt battery (no starter) and even small loads, like
radio memory, can kill them pretty quick. One week seems too quick,
unless your 12 volt battery is under 20 amp hour in capacity (or is
down to less than that because its old and dying.) Many EVs leave the
DC to DC converter (replaces an ICEs alternator) running all the time.
Both EVs I've built where set up that way (in fact, the buggy lacks a
12v battery.) Of course, there may be reasons the DC to DC is off when
the vehicle is off (one example is the use of a DC to DC that can't
take full charge voltage.)
I'd disconnect your 12v battery and charge is separately. Then let it
rest, disconnected, for 1 day and check its voltage. If its not between
12.7 and 13.0 volts I would suspect it is no longer any good
(unfortunately, it could read in that range and still be bad.) If you
let us know what type of battery and about what temperature it is those
numbers could be narrowed (or changed, for example an Optima yellow top
has a charged and rested voltage between 13.1 and 13.2 volts.)
Hope this helps,
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
David Chapman wrote:
For instance I firmly believe that Johns Datsun is a no problem SC. Even tho
I can't remember a single Datsun coming out with a Ford 9" and a spool.
Just to clarify, the car hasn't run with a spool for some time now,
rather, it has full differential action via a Detroit Locker.
Even if he wants to run wheelie bars, take out some of the upholstry or tub
it so he can run slicks if he wants to. He can always run street tires for
the races that require it, or for jaunts down to the soda fountain.
Yes, it appears that with the loosely written dividing lines between a
street conversion and a modified conversion, I could do this. However,
to me, it seems to go against the spirit of a car being a street
conversion as opposed to an all out modified conversion racer type. I
drive this car on the street, and other than its sticker-covered
exterior, it looks like a stock Datsun 1200 economy car....OK, maybe
that BIG 'ol ford nine inch diff. stuffed under the back looks a bit
'hotrod'when viewed from behind :-) .... and things like the wipers,
horn, turn signals, etc, are in working order.
I've done my best to keep this car as close to stock as possible. The
electric motor is right where it's stock gas engine used to be, and the
rear tires and axle are right where they are supposed to be for a Datsun
1200 sedan. I've kept the factory dash, and most all of the upholstery
with the exception of the rear seat to make room for batteries (a mod
that many regular street conversions employ), and have even 'added'
things that a stock 1200 sedan didn't come with, such as carpets (they
came with cheap vinyl mats instead), carpeted kick panels, etc. It has
all of its original door panels, rear side panels, and stock roll-up
window glass. 1200s are now 32 years old (the last model was the '73
1200) and finding stock front seats is next to impossible, so I went
with lighter racing seats up front. It also has absolutely no obvious
body modifications at all and has the stock bumpers. I did redo the
sunken spare tire well in the trunk, replacing the stock kidney-shaped
well with a new one we fabricated and welded in place that better
accommodates batteries...a mod many do when constructing everyday
conversions. With these exceptions, the car has not been intentionally
gutted in any way.
A dramatic departure from my street conversion (SC) class car, is Rod's
impressive Maniac Mazda, a car he wisely choose to campaign as a
modified conversion (MC). It's body is modified with bulged-out rear
quarter panel flares, it has a gutted interior, its doors are mere
shells of their former selves, thin Lexan replaces the window glass, it
has a fully tubbed rear section, it's got huge wrinkle wall drag slicks,
wheelie bars, a roll cage, etc.
Another example is the yet to be completed Purple Phaze minitruck
project. The electric motor will not be where the original gas engine
used to be, and instead of being under the hood, it will be behind the
cab just under the bed. It will have Lexan to replace glass, it may have
a tubbed bed, it will run wrinkle wall slicks, it will have a roll cage,
etc., etc. It will be raced as 'MC'. I 'might' have it licensed for
street driving, but in my mind it will still not be a street conversion
type vehicle as far as its racing class is concerned.
White Zombie would certainly be far quicker with BIG wrinkle wall drag
slicks stuffed under a tubbed rear section, as opposed to its DOT legal
drag radials that fit into the car's stock rear fender wells (barely).
Running DOT approved BF Goodrich drag radials, it's almost in the 11's.
If the car breaks into the 11's (that's far harder than most think it is
to accomplish), NHRA requires a roll cage. I'd have to think long and
hard about adding a roll cage, because in my mind it goes against the
spirit of being a street car.
What is the concise definition of
SC and MC? And the differances between the two?
I agree, this is an area that needs to be clarified. I would hope that
those things I refer to as being 'in the spirit of being a street
conversion' would be adopted in any new rules....no roll cage, no
tubbing, no wrinkle walls or drag slicks, no intentional gutting, no
obvious body mods, stock bumpers and functioning roll-up-down door
glass, functioning safety items like wipers, turn signals, horn, seat
belts, etc.
See Ya......John 'Plasmaboy' Wayland
Driven to the track to set its best ET of 12.151 @ 106.25 mph, then
driven back home!
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi David and All,
"David C. Navas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], jerry dycus wrote:
>This really isn't the EV for that as the Front wheel drive
I'm surprised. I would have thought a rear-wheel driven car would
be easy enough to build.
Sure if you want to change everything but the beauty of the Sunrise is
it's already ready for production as is and spec-ed out. Start changing things
like the drive to the rear and then you have to change the batt placement, ect
and it will take another year to put into production. We don't have the time or
money or desire as the Sunrise is very good as is, only changing just what
needs to be and start the production fast. And the chassis mold is done so
would be foolish to change it now.
And a front wheel drive is much better in the snow, ice and parts are
easily available and rear drive parts, both front and rear are not in smaller
sizes we need.
But then, I don't have any of the
schematics :) I would have thought it would be more reliable
that way -- less suspension nonsense, easier to get 50-50
balance, etc.
It's simple and well balanced as it is.
>But it can do quite well with a 1k zilla which with it's
>lightweight body, chassis, could easily beat most production cars
>in the 1/4 mile.
I think you'll do fine if you get gutsy 30-60mph acceleration.
That's more practical, I think, than the real torquey 0-30mph
takeoffs. You should easily outpace a Prius, at least. If
you can accelerate at the same pace as the EV1, you'll not have
many complaints, I would think. That was low 7s, for the PbA
version, iirc.
The set up I'm probably going to use has good power through out the
driving range to 80 mph or optionally more.
>[AC vs. DC]
AC would be safer (no fail-on mode), can do regen, but requires
higher gearing, higher voltage, and generally more cash. I'd
prefer AC as well, but, we'd need a line on a cheap set. I wouldn't
mind paying $5k for the extra goodies over the $2k DC line. But,
I'm just one datapoint. And $5k is going to be tough to find, too.
As they will be delivered without motor, batts, that can be your
choice or chose the standard ones dropped shipped to you to comply with the fed
laws..
It will have several safety features that stop it if fails full on.
For one thing stomping on the brakes will pop the breaker or fuse and cut all
the contactors.
I seriously don't think many will pay more for less performance though
some might for the extra 10-15% range. Also the charger, batts will cost much
more.
>I'll be heading up to Bob's place to pick the body up this coming
>week so will be great to see it, Bob in person. Bob Rice should be
>thanked as without him sticking his neck out and doing all he has
>done, this never would have happened.
Indeed, you both did great.
Great will be when one is actually produced. By not changing things
that day come more quickly. But as there already is a body, one at least will
be made.
BTW, does the original interior and framing have the braces for the
child car seat clips in the backseat? That's easy to overlook if
you haven't driven with kids. And, as long as I'm raising the subject
of the back seat ... 40-60 fold down? [heh -- I'll stop now :)]
Let me see one first but as it was designed in about 1990, I'd think
it doesn't have kid seat clips though thanks for bringing it up as I didn't
know they had them though alway thought they should for many yrs.
Well see about the fold down rear seat.
Doug, thanks for the names, there are a couple good ones there.
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
-Dave
---------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
