EV Digest 4790
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: happieness is 36,000 watts
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Cable Crimping Tools
by "Rich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Cable Crimping Tools
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Cable Crimping Tools
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Science Project (long)
by "Tim Stephenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: I'm famous!
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Cable Crimping Tools
by "Sharon Hoopes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: I'm famous!
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Abandoned Austin America - Santa Cruz
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Underestimated public reaction
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Cable Crimping Tools
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: happieness is 36,000 watts
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: SOC
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Electrical Connections
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Pic of the inside of an inverter
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Scrapheap Challenge
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: happieness is 36,000 watts
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Science Project (long)
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: I'm famous!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Science Project (long)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Cable Crimping Tools
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: I'm famous!
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Cable Crimping Tools
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah I realized when I got it that I never changed the topic. I never
meant it to be part of that thread.
The guys here know lead acid storage... car forums are a bunch of yahoos
on that one.
I'm pretty sure I just have a failed battery unless maybe they need
equalizing. But the gap in specific gravity seems way too high to be
that sort of problem.
Danny
David Roden wrote:
Sorry to be a cranky old so and so, but this doesn't seem to be a post about
an EV. Please post ICE-related questions in a general automotive forum.
There are many of them all over the web. One possibility :
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/cars/
Alternatively, if you want to ask someone on the EV list a question about
your ICE's battery, you might pick a couple of knowledgable list members and
send the question to them via private email, NOT by a public post.
And while I'm whining ;-), please don't hijack threads and change their
subjects. This post has nothing to do with "happiness is 36,000 watts."
Thanks for your cooperation.
PS - you need a new battery in your van. That one has a shorted cell. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is copper brass gas welding rod that is used in air condition work. It
has a much lower melting point and is excellent for this.
Rich
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 12:12 AM
Subject: Re: Cable Crimping Tools
> Dave Cover wrote:
>> He heats up a pool of solder inside the lug and then pushes the
>> cable into the hot solder. The cable has been fluxed, but I don't
>> think he tins it first. Says it works pretty good... Is this a
>> neat trick or recipe for disaster?
>
> Sounds like a recipe for disaster! You get a joint of unknown quality
> that you can't inspect.
> --
> The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
> -- Harlan Ellison
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.9/116 - Release Date: 9/30/2005
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When in doubt use a Megger to test your connection. I myself think that
soldering a connection would be much better than crimping it. I agree that
it is harder to do but guaranteed to have a better end result.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 6:16 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Cable Crimping Tools
John Luck Home asked:
> Why does everyone crimp these connectors instead of tinning the fine
> stranded welding cable and soldering them into closed end ring connectors.
> Isn't this going to give better contact area from cable to lug?
A perfect soldered connection is just as good as a perfect crimped
connection. However, soldering takes more skill, especially for large
connections. So crimping is more likely to produce a good connection when
done by amateurs.
--
Lee Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A "Megger" generally refers to an insulation resistance tester. It
wouldn't be any use in determining the difference between a crimped
and a soldered connection.
On 10/4/05, Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> When in doubt use a Megger to test your connection. I myself think that
> soldering a connection would be much better than crimping it. I agree that
> it is harder to do but guaranteed to have a better end result.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 6:16 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Cable Crimping Tools
>
>
> John Luck Home asked:
> > Why does everyone crimp these connectors instead of tinning the fine
> > stranded welding cable and soldering them into closed end ring connectors.
> > Isn't this going to give better contact area from cable to lug?
>
> A perfect soldered connection is just as good as a perfect crimped
> connection. However, soldering takes more skill, especially for large
> connections. So crimping is more likely to produce a good connection when
> done by amateurs.
> --
> Lee Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Will your students have interenet access? I would think that to be critical
to their research, and "at-risk" classrooms either have the best tools in
the world or none at all (I used to teach High School science). If they do,
perhaps we could all contribute our "favorites" lists, and you could assign
someone/a group to be the "info distributor" that takes all of my Battery
links and those from all of your other contributors (removing duplicates and
ensuring consistent and reasonable subtopic names), and shuffles them off to
the Battery group. And so on though each system.
A more do-able project than designing the whole EV (that is, more in line
with the time you might have available) would be more along the lines of a
community service project.You could put together a master list of everyones
favorites that we could turn into the framework for a master info
repository. It would have to be tweaked, of course, since it is unlikely
that your students will capture all of the nuances of each subject, but it
could be quite a contribution towards EV progress overall.
Also, you might play the "community service" card with our members - perhaps
there are those who would be able to serve as advisors to each group - we
have professionals who are in love with the field enough to invest their
free time here, and hobbyists who devote their lives to the pursuit of their
passion. We have specific skills, generalists, and folks who have wide
knowledge and experience who have a specific focus on a "style" that puts
them in a class by themselves ("budget" or "dragsters", for example).
You could also collaborate with other schools, and especially should
consider the homeschool population as a possibility - there may be lots out
there who could contribute (all - please send any homeschool comments to me
off-list, so as not to make this a political thread). This would probably
make this a much longer project, though. Not that this would be bad, but
your kids might lose interest.
There are lots of different systems and such to get involved with
(aerodynamics by itself is daunting - and that's just not even "skin deep"
on the vehicle!). I am not sure your students will have the grasp of physics
they would need (i.e., Maslow's "Evaluation" level assumes a foundation).
But you could certainly have fun with it, and you might spark interest in
one or two kids. If you could do that, you could count the year as a
success!
-Tim S
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Van Ravenswaay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV discusion list" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 1:11 AM
Subject: Science Project (long)
> Hello everyone,
>
> First let me introduce myself. I'm a future science
> teacher. I say future because about five years ago I
> went through a series of layoffs that resulted in my
> returning to college to become a teacher. Since I've
> always been interested in the sciences that seemed
> like the way to go (I can play with all the stuff I
> like and get kids into, it and get paid for it!).
> Anyway I am 45 years old and I find myself teacher
> assisting in a local middle school and I will be
> student teaching in the winter. Maybe by this time
> next year I will have my own classroom.
>
> I am currently teaching an exploratory class called
> "Science in Motion" to a group of seventh graders many
> of whom might be classified as "at risk" students. We
> have been working on designing and building CO2
> powered model dragsters and applying Newton's laws to
> predict outcomes of races. The cars are just about
> ready to run and the unit will soon be finished. In
> another week or so, my coordinating teacher and I will
> find ourselves in a room with 20 seventh graders (half
> of which might be considered "at risk") with 4 weeks
> left in the marking period and no real plans (this is
> the first time he's taught this unit).
>
> Here's where this finally ties into the ev list. I
> have been keeping up with the list for a couple years
> now but I rarely post simply because I am torn in too
> many directions lately. I am going to propose to my
> coordinating teacher that we research and design an ev
> as a class, dividing the class into groups and
> assigning various design aspects to different groups,
> and having individual groups report back to the class
> on what they have found so the class can discuss and
> approve possible design aspects and hardware
> selections. I believe that I will assign a group to
> research batteries, one group to motors, one to
> possible donor cars vs. design from scratch, etc... I
> think this would make a good project to get students
> thinking about the future of transportation and how
> they might help to influence the public both through
> personal communication and through raising community
> awareness of some of the upcoming issues in the
> transportation industry and related industries, and
> how these might be addressed. I think I can get the
> kids interested, especially with gas prices like they
> are right now (their parents will probably be
> interested). I think that designing an ev would be
> perfect for the classes theme "Science in Motion" as
> they will have to learn about electricity, batteries,
> motors, tires, chassis design, efficiency, horsepower,
> performance vs. economy, etc....
>
> My request of the list is this. Could several
> indidviduals on this list respond in terms of ideas
> for approaching this project, possible sources for
> parts of all types: motors, batteries, controllers,
> battery management systems, anything that might be
> helpful. I'll need a list of possible sources of
> information and parts (like this list :) ) Does this
> sound like a good idea? What could I do differently.
> What am I missing? I know this list is full of people
> that have a ton of knowledge and I'm hoping I can tap
> into that source if you all would be willing. I think
> this could be a great way to influence a group of
> students to start thinking differently about how they
> will accomplish their personal transportation needs
> before any of them purchases a first car. Can you
> help me plant a seed?
>
> Best Regards,
> Gary Van Ravenswaay
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You luck out.
When I was interviewed at one time, they got the weight, range, speed and cost
numbers change around. If a person gets interviewed, its would best if you
could look at the final draft before its release.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Bohm<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: EV List<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 11:02 PM
Subject: I'm famous!
Hi EVeryone,
I was interviewed by the local newspaper a few days ago. This morning,
the article came out on the front page, complete with a picture of
me...(oh great!)
The question/answer session was stuck in the article pretty much
verbatim. In retrospect, I probably would have said a few things
differently. But all things considered, I'm pretty happy with it.
Link:
http://hjnews.townnews.com/articles/2005/10/03/news/news03.txt<http://hjnews.townnews.com/articles/2005/10/03/news/news03.txt>
Hopefully that link works for anyone interested.
BTW, I did send in an e-mail to the paper in response to another article
about a local NEV. So it pays to make contact - you might just get
noticed and publicized.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com<http://www.evsource.com/>> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, WarP, and PowerCheq
All at the best prices available!
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Been there done that! not A good idea.It looks good & it work for awhile
BUT! when there's A bad cell & you have to replace A battery,!!! It is
harder to take the cable off!!! Then It did to put It on!! I even put on A
rubber seal . (PLASTI DIP) & IT got that green corrosion in side the cable.
I make my own cable connectors out of 1/2 inch copper pipe. I do a lot of
soldering and make sure all the connections are shiny clean. It works very
well. I'll never solder my battery cables into the battery posts
again.............Bill
Bill & Sharon Hoopes
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [Original Message]
> From: Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Date: 10/4/2005 4:15:28 AM
> Subject: Re: Cable Crimping Tools
>
> A "Megger" generally refers to an insulation resistance tester. It
> wouldn't be any use in determining the difference between a crimped
> and a soldered connection.
>
>
> On 10/4/05, Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > When in doubt use a Megger to test your connection. I myself think that
> > soldering a connection would be much better than crimping it. I agree
that
> > it is harder to do but guaranteed to have a better end result.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 6:16 PM
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: Re: Cable Crimping Tools
> >
> >
> > John Luck Home asked:
> > > Why does everyone crimp these connectors instead of tinning the fine
> > > stranded welding cable and soldering them into closed end ring
connectors.
> > > Isn't this going to give better contact area from cable to lug?
> >
> > A perfect soldered connection is just as good as a perfect crimped
> > connection. However, soldering takes more skill, especially for large
> > connections. So crimping is more likely to produce a good connection
when
> > done by amateurs.
> > --
> > Lee Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Clearly you've been lurking on the list long enough to
have great answers. A super effort!
All the best,
--- Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi EVeryone,
>
> I was interviewed by the local newspaper a few days
> ago. This morning,
> the article came out on the front page, complete
> with a picture of
> me...(oh great!)
>
> The question/answer session was stuck in the article
> pretty much
> verbatim. In retrospect, I probably would have said
> a few things
> differently. But all things considered, I'm pretty
> happy with it.
>
> Link:
>
http://hjnews.townnews.com/articles/2005/10/03/news/news03.txt
>
> Hopefully that link works for anyone interested.
>
> BTW, I did send in an e-mail to the paper in
> response to another article
> about a local NEV. So it pays to make contact - you
> might just get
> noticed and publicized.
>
> -Ryan
> --
> - EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
> Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, WarP, and
> PowerCheq
> All at the best prices available!
> E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This car weigh 1860 pounds curb.
: "Miles Chappell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon Sep 26, 2005 10:06 pm
Subject: Abandoned Austin America - Santa Cruz
It looks like they mowed the property and there was an Austin America
just sitting there. I have driven past this lot for 10 years and never
seen the car before. The house is derrilict thing all boarded up on
stilts and now there is an Austin adorning the property. Maybe it was
towed in and left, but I bet it could be gotten for free.
Brown Austin America sitting on the corner of Soquel Drive &
Chanticleer in Santa Cruz.
Kinda reminds me of when we abadoned the Isetta and the 1965 Chevy
Biscayne in the weeds in Santa Clara!
Miles
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well It happened to me. I took the nissan over to the dealer to get a
part for it. Somewhere in the conversatioin with the parts guy I let it
slip that it was now electric and he wanted to come out and take a look.
So I showed him. A mechanic walks by and does a true double-take. Then
off to kragens for a different part(waste of time) back to the dealer
for said part(also a waste of time) but while I was talking to the parts
guy the service manager comes up and asks if he can open the hood and
show it to a few people. I said ok and let him know it was un-latched.
Then realized I had better get out there before some pokeing fingers
finds 200V.
There were 10-15 people and I could hear the manager paging people to
the area.
Of course the crowd drew more onlookers.
What was a pleasent surprize was no generator on wheel questions.
Actually, only 1 range question.
The dominate question was how fast? and how much HP? I think this is a
side effect of it being a 300zx, people expect it to be fast.
How I would have loved to john wayland it out of the parking lot but...
we are not ready.
Anyhow, I was quite late for my doctors appointment.
Word of advice, allow extra time the SECOND time you go someplace
public. The Word gets around.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Awhile back ( maybe years ) you ( Lee) talked about tinning the whole lug
with solder , I've done that with a few and even after years of use they
still look good ,and clean where a copper lug would have turned color . I
would also think that a thin layer of soft solder would also take the shape
of the suffuse its being attached to . Yes it dose take a lot longer to do ,
Steve clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <
John Luck Home asked:
Why does everyone crimp these connectors instead of tinning the fine
stranded welding cable and soldering them into closed end ring
connectors.
Isn't this going to give better contact area from cable to lug?
A perfect soldered connection is just as good as a perfect crimped
connection. However, soldering takes more skill, especially for large
connections. So crimping is more likely to produce a good connection when
done by amateurs.
--
Lee Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 03:09 AM 10/4/2005, you wrote:
And while I'm whining ;-), please don't hijack threads and change their
subjects. This post has nothing to do with "happiness is 36,000 watts."
Thanks for your cooperation.
PS - you need a new battery in your van. That one has a shorted cell. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
Oh I think after putting 36,000 watts into a single SLI battery the need
for a new battery would be rather obvious.:)
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <
.
Th 312 calculated amps was 12.8 mv on a 50mv 1200 amp shunt, i was
accelerating a little hard that time, god I hope I wasn't putting 1000
motor amps out. I thought I was taking it easy.
I think at low speeds and take offs they do but as the motor voltage is very
low at these times its ok (after brake in ) , others on the list would know
better than me.
156*140 = 21.8kw
218*70 = 15.2kw
The one I did has some big fat tires , and the battery weight is much more ,
one thing I will say is the car feels like it can handle the power , the
rear and tranny have plenty of meat.
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Working as a electrician back in the 40's, I replaced many Tube and Knob
wiring. Many of these connections where a tap branch wire circuit that is coil
around in the middle of a feeder wire. It was solder and than friction tape.
Many connections were so loose and crystallize than you can spin many of these
connections off with your finger. In one building I replace one connection
that have arcing and burn marks on them.
I had one factory made solder battery connection which connected two battery
boxes together, all the other cells links were welded connection bars. This
solder connection arc and cause a hole in one of the 2 volt cells.
I can see that there was little solder in this connection. Probly it was
solder by filling the terminal lug with solder and than the cable was inserted,
which injected much of the solder out of the terminal causing a cold joint.
I replace these with a heavy duty mechanical terminal lug that was install
with one of are hydraulic crimping tool that can crimp the whole length of the
terminal lug at one time.
Now when I have a fault or a short, the fuse blows which is contain in fuse
enclosure which contains it, if it blows apart, not the battery connections.
I'am going for maximum safety using high quality connections, isolations,
explosive proof battery exhaust fans, heavy wall rib battery containers, cast
aluminum water proof terminal strip enclosures, and water proof sealtite
conduits.
Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 10/3/05, Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Typical marketing BS. Look at the table comparing
> standard PM and rasor's motors.
>
> According to them all PM motors in the world are pure
> crap and only Rasor's motors are to save the world.
> IS there any single good thing to say about PM motors?
I notice they don't mention efficiency or claim that their motor is as
light as a PM one.
But then it's probably made with the US hybrid market in mind. So
efficiency and weight are not the point :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I always got the impression that the US version of the show had junkyards that
were "seeded". i.e. needed parts were planted into the yard to encourage
something near the producers desired outcome.
Of course that would probably be the only way an EV could be built on the show.
Depends on the yard thought I s'pose.
Stay Charged!
Hump
Original Message -----------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of toltec
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 6:13 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Scrapheap Challenge
paul compton (RRes-Roth) wrote:
> Scrapheap Challenge (also re-Broadcast and produced in the US as
> Junkyard Wars).
> UK Series 8 is three programmes into it's run.
> Next week is off-road EV's with yours truly as one of the team experts.
great! please let us know the outcome (after it's broadcast, so as not to
spoil the suspense for viewers, of course)
that is a great show - unfortunately, it is not running on US tv any longer
(at least on none of the cable channels I get)... they started up a couple
of US-produced versions of it, which instantly degenerated into "take an
existing ICE and weld a catapult and battering ram onto it"
uselessness... the original, Scrapheap, on the other hand, was a heck of a
lot of fun! glad to see they're doing EVs...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <
Yea... a pile of Nichrome Glowing hot... I have to get some shots of the
shop at night with the 75K clocking at 1/2 snort.
I'm not sure why but pictures of peoples shops are a big hit with me .
Maybe its a " how do they do that" thing .
steve clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds like "BEST" might be a good start for ideas...
http://www.bestoutreach.org
I'm sure Lee will comment, I'll leave it to him.
Stay Charged!
Hump
Original Message -----------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Gary Van Ravenswaay
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 1:12 AM
To: EV discusion list
Subject: Science Project (long)
Hello everyone,
First let me introduce myself. I'm a future science teacher. I say future
because about five years ago I went through a series of layoffs that
resulted in my returning to college to become a teacher. Since I've always
been interested in the sciences that seemed like the way to go (I can play
with all the stuff I like and get kids into, it and get paid for it!).
Anyway I am 45 years old and I find myself teacher assisting in a local
middle school and I will be student teaching in the winter. Maybe by this
time next year I will have my own classroom.
I am currently teaching an exploratory class called "Science in Motion" to a
group of seventh graders many of whom might be classified as "at risk"
students. We have been working on designing and building CO2 powered model
dragsters and applying Newton's laws to predict outcomes of races. The cars
are just about ready to run and the unit will soon be finished. In another
week or so, my coordinating teacher and I will find ourselves in a room with
20 seventh graders (half of which might be considered "at risk") with 4
weeks left in the marking period and no real plans (this is the first time
he's taught this unit).
Here's where this finally ties into the ev list. I have been keeping up
with the list for a couple years now but I rarely post simply because I am
torn in too many directions lately. I am going to propose to my
coordinating teacher that we research and design an ev as a class, dividing
the class into groups and assigning various design aspects to different
groups, and having individual groups report back to the class on what they
have found so the class can discuss and approve possible design aspects and
hardware selections. I believe that I will assign a group to research
batteries, one group to motors, one to possible donor cars vs. design from
scratch, etc... I think this would make a good project to get students
thinking about the future of transportation and how they might help to
influence the public both through personal communication and through raising
community awareness of some of the upcoming issues in the transportation
industry and related industries, and how these might be addressed. I think
I can get the kids interested, especially with gas prices like they are
right now (their parents will probably be interested). I think that
designing an ev would be perfect for the classes theme "Science in Motion"
as they will have to learn about electricity, batteries, motors, tires,
chassis design, efficiency, horsepower, performance vs. economy, etc....
My request of the list is this. Could several indidviduals on this list
respond in terms of ideas for approaching this project, possible sources for
parts of all types: motors, batteries, controllers, battery management
systems, anything that might be helpful. I'll need a list of possible
sources of information and parts (like this list :) ) Does this sound like
a good idea? What could I do differently.
What am I missing? I know this list is full of people that have a ton of
knowledge and I'm hoping I can tap into that source if you all would be
willing. I think this could be a great way to influence a group of students
to start thinking differently about how they will accomplish their personal
transportation needs before any of them purchases a first car. Can you help
me plant a seed?
Best Regards,
Gary Van Ravenswaay
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Ryan Bohm wrote:
Hi EVeryone,
I was interviewed by the local newspaper a few days ago. This
morning, the article came out on the front page, complete with a
picture of me...(oh great!)
Congrats, Ryan! I think it's a a very good article. I was proof reading
a yet to be released article this morning that will be in a magazine in
the near future, when your post came through, so I got a double hit of
EV stuff with my morning coffee! I think the picture of you and your
ride looks great.
Keep up the good work.
See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gary Van Ravenswaay wrote:
> I am currently teaching an exploratory class called "Science in
> Motion"... In another week or so, my coordinating teacher and I
> will find ourselves in a room with 20 seventh graders (half of
> which might be considered "at risk") with 4 weeks left in the
> marking period and no real plans (this is the first time he's
> taught this unit).
>
> I am going to propose to my coordinating teacher that we research
> and design an ev as a class...
That's a great idea! Kids are often at risk because they have no
motivation -- they don't want to be in school, and see no point to what
is being taught. A project that connects to the real world can have a
profound effect on their attitudes and life.
Have you heard of our BEST program (Bridging Engineering, Science, and
Teaching)? See www.bestoutreach.com for details. For about 10 years now,
I and some fellow engineers have been going into 4th-6th grade
classrooms, and mentoring them to build go-kart-sized electric vehicles.
They have to invent, design, build, test, perfect, and finally drive
them! They start with ideas on paper. Then they build models, like your
CO2 cars. They race these against each other to test and improve their
ideas and construction skills. Then they enlarge the cars into
full-sized vehicles that they can actually drive! We usually have a
dozen or so schools participating, and have a big race at the end of the
year, where they compete with each other in speed, range,
maneuverability, braking, etc.
BEST is quite different from most school activities. We don't provide
any books, plans, money, materials, or rules. We don't tell them "how it
should be done". We don't lecture, or assign homework, or give tests.
Our most common answer is, "I don't know; How can we find out?"
What we *do* do is provide the tools, and guide them through the process
of learning to think. We do it by presenting them with difficult
real-world problems; ones where you can't find the answers in a book, or
ask someone the answer. You have to discover ways to solve problems, and
check the answers for yourself! In the process, they learn how real
science and engineering works.
> dividing the class into groups... assigning various design aspects
> to different groups... and having individual groups report back to
> the class on what they have found so the class can discuss and
> approve possible design aspects and hardware selections.
I found this approach doesn't work well with "at risk" kids. It's not
how they work, and not how they think. Trying to enforce this pattern of
learning is often setting them up to fail.
Kids are born scientists and engineers; they are naturally curious,
creative, energetic, and *want* to learn. They love to experiment, and
learn as much (or more!) from their mistakes as they do from their
successes.
But the school system usually winds up beating it out of them! It
stresses conformity instead of creativity; memorization instead of
thinking; accepting answers from authority, not from experience. It
punishes failure, to make kids afraid to experiment or think for
themselves.
Here's an example of how I approach all this in my BEST classes.
I started the year with a challenge; I told my students about the
"Segway"; a heavily promoted, very expensive vehicle that (they claim)
will revolutionize transportation. It has two wheels side-by-side, a
platform between them that you stand on, and a T-shaped handlebar that
you steer with. The supposed "breakthrough" is that it balances itself,
using thousands of dollars of on-board computers and gyroscopes.
The company spent millions of dollars lobbying all the state legislators
to pass special laws for the Segway. The laws say it's not a car, bike,
scooter, or skateboard; so none of the laws limiting their use apply to
the Segway. Specifically, the law says, "A 2-wheeled, self-balancing,
non-tandem (i.e. wheels not one in front of the other like a bicycle)
vehicle can be ridden ANYWHERE you can legally walk, with no license, no
helmet, no insurance, no registration, and no age limit." The kids
immediately said, "No helmet? No license? I can ride it on the sidewalk?
In the street? In the mall? Even where they ban skateboards and
scooters?!? Woo hoo, I want one!"
So there's the challenge: Can you build your own Segway? My 5th grade
students came up with a dozen schemes to build a 2-wheel self-balancing,
non-tandem vehicle without all the computers and gyroscopes. They made
drawings, then models out of Legos, K-Nex, cardboard boxes, styrafoam,
jar lids, popsicle sticks, etc. They tested their models, debated the
strengths and weaknesses of each, and improved them, combining ideas and
learning by experimentation what worked and what didn't. In the process,
they were incidentally learning to use tools, to work together, to share
ideas rather than compete, and above all to THINK.
Two of their models actually worked, and met the rules. Amid much
debate, two factions formed, and started building their full-size
versions. After a while one group gave up, because they saw that the
other idea was working out better.
Since we don't provide materials, they had to scrounge for them. They
collected scrap lumber, broken bikes, and stuff from the school
dumpster. They hauled in trash from home. They got businesses to donate
nuts and bolts.
The resulting vehicle was a rectangle made of 2"x4" lumber, bolted at
the corners, and about 2' x 3' on a side. Another 2"x4" ran across it
diagonally (they discovered it wiggled if it wasn't triangulated). A
broken classroom seat was placed in the middle for the seat.
A 2" x 4" leg was bolted to each of the 4 corners, each about 12" long.
These legs pointed up. Holes were drilled left-right in each leg. Pipe
axles were poked thru these legs.
The wheels were two big old SUV tires. They couldn't find any rims to
fit, so they made them out of two disks of plywood, held apart with a
ring of 2"x4"s. They put inner tubes inside to hold air. They had one
left-rear wheel, and one right-front wheel. Since *all* of the weight
was hung below the axles, it balanced itself!
To steer, 3 of the corner "legs" were rigid, but the left front one had
only one bolt so it could pivot fore/aft, This made the axle turn, to
steer the front wheel.
For brakes, they installed another 2"x4' across the front so you could
push it against the front wheel to stop.
To make it "go", they used two Ford radiator fan motors (it took two to
get enough power). Each had a 2" pulley on its shaft. The pulleys ran
two v-belts, which used the grooves in the tire tread as the other
pulley.
A sealed lead-acid battery (like those used in electric wheelchairs) was
mounted under the seat, very close to the road, further improving
balance. (BEST loans a battery to each team, so on "race day" they all
have the same amount of power. But the rest of the time, teams use
whatever they like).
To the amazement of adults, the thing works!
I hope you can see what I'm getting at. This is self-directed,
self-motivated "constructivist" learning. The students came up with the
idea, got the parts, made the models, did the testing, picked the best
choices, and built the final vehicle. They made the rules, they decided
what to do, and how to do it! We didn't have to force them to do it;
they forced US to let them do it! They raised their own money, and found
their own materials. They came in early before school, and stayed late
after school to work on it. They dragged their parents into it to bring
in scrounged materials.
Did they "win"? Of course they did! EVERY team wins! When we got to our
"big race", EVERY TEAM has done something different. The vehicles aren't
even remotely alike. Every team picked their own goals, so what you see
represents their solution. Some decided to go for speed; others
efficiency; others a cool-looking body. On race-day, we pick student
judges from each team, and THEY make up the judging criteria on the
spot. They decide what is "best" about each car, and award them
accordingly. Our team got the Engineering award for Most Creative
Design.
--
Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has! -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think that most people would underestimate the amount of heat that
would have to be put into that size lug/wire in order to get a proper
solder joint. You'd need a pretty big electric iron. I think an
oxy/acet torch would work well, with a small tip.
Lee Hart wrote:
John Luck Home asked:
Why does everyone crimp these connectors instead of tinning the fine
stranded welding cable and soldering them into closed end ring connectors.
Isn't this going to give better contact area from cable to lug?
A perfect soldered connection is just as good as a perfect crimped
connection. However, soldering takes more skill, especially for large
connections. So crimping is more likely to produce a good connection when
done by amateurs.
--
Lee Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What a great article Ryan!
Truly an inspiration to all of us still struggling to get our cars done.
Mark Ward
St. Charles, MO
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
>
> From: Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2005/10/04 Tue AM 12:02:19 EST
> To: EV List <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Subject: I'm famous!
>
> Hi EVeryone,
>
> I was interviewed by the local newspaper a few days ago. This morning,
> the article came out on the front page, complete with a picture of
> me...(oh great!)
>
> The question/answer session was stuck in the article pretty much
> verbatim. In retrospect, I probably would have said a few things
> differently. But all things considered, I'm pretty happy with it.
>
> Link: http://hjnews.townnews.com/articles/2005/10/03/news/news03.txt
>
> Hopefully that link works for anyone interested.
>
> BTW, I did send in an e-mail to the paper in response to another article
> about a local NEV. So it pays to make contact - you might just get
> noticed and publicized.
>
> -Ryan
> --
> - EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
> Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, WarP, and PowerCheq
> All at the best prices available!
> E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In building type electrical connections, we cannot make just a solder
connection of a wire to even a solder lug. Its is best to follow this advice in
EVs. There is now some NEC code requirements for EVs.
NEC and National Fire Protection Requirements.
Connections of a conductor SHALL be made by means of PRESSURE CONNECTIONS,
including SOLDER LUGS.
Soldering of connections shall first mechanically and electrically secure
without solder and then solder after its is mechanically secure.
This means the wire and terminal is pre-tin, than mechanically crimp and than
solder.
In the 40's we started to used a brass sleeve that slip over a twisted wire
connections and mechanically crimp it. Sometimes we fill the connection with
solder if the specifications call for it. It then was cover with a plastic
screw on or wrap around insulation cover.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Poulsen<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: Cable Crimping Tools
I think that most people would underestimate the amount of heat that
would have to be put into that size lug/wire in order to get a proper
solder joint. You'd need a pretty big electric iron. I think an
oxy/acet torch would work well, with a small tip.
Lee Hart wrote:
>John Luck Home asked:
>
>
>>Why does everyone crimp these connectors instead of tinning the fine
>>stranded welding cable and soldering them into closed end ring connectors.
>>Isn't this going to give better contact area from cable to lug?
>>
>>
>
>A perfect soldered connection is just as good as a perfect crimped
>connection. However, soldering takes more skill, especially for large
>connections. So crimping is more likely to produce a good connection when
>done by amateurs.
>--
>Lee Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
