EV Digest 4793
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Crimp versus solder (was: Cable Crimping Tools)
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Science Project (long)
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: My S-10 again - ABS
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Measuring the current -- Was: First drive impressions
by "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Measuring the current -- Was: First drive impressions
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Cable Crimping Tools
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) EV audio
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: The "other" Solectria Sunrise, an' Stuff.
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Useful Information to Share
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) RE: Cable Crimping Tools
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Cable Crimping Tools
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Cable Crimping Tools
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Thoughts/questions on getting an inverter built
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Measuring the current -- Was: First drive impressions
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Cable Crimping Tools
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Cable Crimping Tools, thoughts
by "Tim Stephenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Cable Crimping Tools
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Cable Crimping Tools
by "Rick Barnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Measuring the current
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 23:41:18 -0600, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>We have this thread about once every year. <sigh>
> The Navy studies showed that a properly crimped connection was better
> than
>a crimped and soldered connection in high-vibration environments (like a
>car, for example.) This is because there is a stress concentration at the
>point where the solder stops. This causes the wire to break at that point.
>The crimped connection does not have a sharp stress concentration point.
*sigh*
The key word is, of course, "proper". I wonder how many DIY'ers have
the proper crimp tools compared to how many have propane torches and
solder? I wonder how a hammer-crimped lug would compare to a soldered
one? Hex crimped vs soldered? I wonder how many decades if ever, it
would take for a hunk of welding cable to break from vibration in a
street-going electric car?
While not having been in the position to waste taxpayers' money on
government projects at NIST, I HAVE done a little testing with a press
and spring scale. I find that the eye usually pulls out before
anything else and that the lug is almost always destroyed in the
process of pulling apart a soldered joint.
I further find that a hammer-crimped lug generally pulls off without
too much effort. Frankly, of academic interest only, since I doubt
many people are going to use traction wiring as stressed elements.
My recommendation remains for *home* constructors is to solder the
lugs whenever possible. Soldering can be done with tools most people
already have at hand, propane torches, solder, flux, etc. No need to
spend lots of money on a set of metal displacement crimpers.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You sound really ambitious to do all that in four weeks. You didn't say how
many hours a week you were expecting to spend on this project. It does make
a difference.
To stay within your time frame, you could try something like an electric
bike race on a budget of $200. That would give them a week to plan, a week
to get pieces, a week to assemble the bike and a week to test and tune it
for the race. The point of the budget is to allow them to see what the
market offers but to build something for less than the cost of a turn key
solution.
It would expose the students to a real budget, a real deadline, and real
competitors in a short enough time span to make it interesting.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Van Ravenswaay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV discusion list" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 10:11 PM
Subject: Science Project (long)
> Hello everyone,
>
> First let me introduce myself. I'm a future science
> teacher. I say future because about five years ago I
> went through a series of layoffs that resulted in my
> returning to college to become a teacher. Since I've
> always been interested in the sciences that seemed
> like the way to go (I can play with all the stuff I
> like and get kids into, it and get paid for it!).
> Anyway I am 45 years old and I find myself teacher
> assisting in a local middle school and I will be
> student teaching in the winter. Maybe by this time
> next year I will have my own classroom.
>
> I am currently teaching an exploratory class called
> "Science in Motion" to a group of seventh graders many
> of whom might be classified as "at risk" students. We
> have been working on designing and building CO2
> powered model dragsters and applying Newton's laws to
> predict outcomes of races. The cars are just about
> ready to run and the unit will soon be finished. In
> another week or so, my coordinating teacher and I will
> find ourselves in a room with 20 seventh graders (half
> of which might be considered "at risk") with 4 weeks
> left in the marking period and no real plans (this is
> the first time he's taught this unit).
>
> Here's where this finally ties into the ev list. I
> have been keeping up with the list for a couple years
> now but I rarely post simply because I am torn in too
> many directions lately. I am going to propose to my
> coordinating teacher that we research and design an ev
> as a class, dividing the class into groups and
> assigning various design aspects to different groups,
> and having individual groups report back to the class
> on what they have found so the class can discuss and
> approve possible design aspects and hardware
> selections. I believe that I will assign a group to
> research batteries, one group to motors, one to
> possible donor cars vs. design from scratch, etc... I
> think this would make a good project to get students
> thinking about the future of transportation and how
> they might help to influence the public both through
> personal communication and through raising community
> awareness of some of the upcoming issues in the
> transportation industry and related industries, and
> how these might be addressed. I think I can get the
> kids interested, especially with gas prices like they
> are right now (their parents will probably be
> interested). I think that designing an ev would be
> perfect for the classes theme "Science in Motion" as
> they will have to learn about electricity, batteries,
> motors, tires, chassis design, efficiency, horsepower,
> performance vs. economy, etc....
>
> My request of the list is this. Could several
> indidviduals on this list respond in terms of ideas
> for approaching this project, possible sources for
> parts of all types: motors, batteries, controllers,
> battery management systems, anything that might be
> helpful. I'll need a list of possible sources of
> information and parts (like this list :) ) Does this
> sound like a good idea? What could I do differently.
> What am I missing? I know this list is full of people
> that have a ton of knowledge and I'm hoping I can tap
> into that source if you all would be willing. I think
> this could be a great way to influence a group of
> students to start thinking differently about how they
> will accomplish their personal transportation needs
> before any of them purchases a first car. Can you
> help me plant a seed?
>
> Best Regards,
> Gary Van Ravenswaay
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 05:53 PM 4/10/05 -0500, Michaela wrote:
I am zooming in on the brake booster. This is why: My gast vaccum pump is
adjusted to 20mmHg (18 should be enough) and has a vacuum container. The
pump needs about 15 to 20 secs to get the vaccum stabilized and ONE, just
ONE hit on the brakes and vaccum goes all the way down to 5 mmHg with all
the 'power' boosting gone. The booster should keep enough vaccum for two
or three brakes but this is not happening. Only one brake action and all
the vaccum is literally used up.
Any other suggestions?
I hope that you mean 20 inches of mercury, not 20mm (3/4") of mercury? If
you do only have 20mmHg then it'd be surprising you get any vacuum assist
at all!
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks to all who have pointed me towards the Hall effect devices for
measuring DC current without breaking into a circuit.
Products from A.F Bell, LEM, HEME and Honeywell.
Only problem now is to find someone in the UK who carries these items !!!
Thanks All
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Farver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: Measuring the current -- Was: First drive impressions
> John Luck Home wrote:
>
> >I want to use a system to measure the current flowing into and out of my
> >
> >
>
> >Unless there is a meter that will read Magnetic field strength - is there
?
> >and convert this into a proportional voltage.
> >
> >
> >
> Yes.. I believe its done with a Hall Effect sensor, which measures the
> field strength around the wire.
>
> Manzanita uses such a sensor in their charges. The ones he uses are
> from LEM http://www.lemusa.com
>
> Mark Farver
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.9/118 - Release Date: 03/10/2005
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 10/5/05, John Luck Home <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thanks to all who have pointed me towards the Hall effect devices for
> measuring DC current without breaking into a circuit.
>
> Products from A.F Bell, LEM, HEME and Honeywell.
>
> Only problem now is to find someone in the UK who carries these items !!!
Farnell
Regards
Evan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 10/4/05, James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> When I went into business for myself, knowing that I would be doing welding
> equipment repairs I went and bought a crimper that is adequate - around
> $200 US equivalent. Didn't even contemplate soldering terminals.
Not having lots of money to spend on a proper crimper, I do this:
Place the lug in a vice between two bits of hard fibreboard. Tin the
wire (lightly, to avoid too much wicking). Heat the lug, tin the
inside and insert the wire. Get it all hot and then squish the lug in
the vice. Put heatshrink over it.
I use a 100W Weller iron, which cost about 30 GBP.
So, the crimp isn't perfect but it's enough to stop the wire falling
out if the terminal heats up (if its bolt is not correctly tightened
for example). The solder prevents corrosion and therefore prevents
the connection from heating up itself.
OK, it takes a little longer than a straightforward crimp, but I think
it's a reliable "cheap" solution.
my 2p worth :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I thought this amplifier might be interesting to anyone who wants to
implement a good sound system in an EV.
Normal car audio systems suffer from the same disease as the rest of
the components on an ICE - they're hot, heavy and inefficient. Big
heatsinks and high current demand from the 12V system. And they're
expensive!
An amplifier built with this chip, and driving efficient speakers
could be more suitable for an EV, IMHO :)
This review is a bit over the top but still interesting:
http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/t-amp_e.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bob and All,
Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerry dycus"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: The "other" Solectria Sunrise
> Hi David? and All,
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I see ZAP got the "sloppy seconds" of Sunrise bodies off eBay - Jerry, did
you
> bid because you wanted the older molds? Seems you got the best one to
start
> with already!
> Hi Jerry an' All;
I sorta let that one get by. Sigh! I was thinking of going a few hundred
for the second IF nobody pushed it higher, but we got Zapped on it, I guess?
Wanted the damn door moulds, but thereweren't any to bre had with this body.
I feel that making decent doors is gunna be a challange. Like the Citicar
doors that I never got decent in the first ones
But nothing we can't duplicate ourselves if nessasary as we have
door skins and the door sills in the body we can make new molds from. I hadn't
even known there were door molds until after I bought the first one. And the
molds don't even fit the 2nd body !!
>
> The door molds for my version were in that batch and wanted
them. Though I can build them from scratch, it takes time and money to do so
I was hoping to buy it for them, then sell the body to recoup the money.
Keeping it out of Zap's hands was another as I just barely beat him on the
first body and figured he would bid on it.
>
> He is just going to give Selectria grief over it I'd bet,
using their rep to con people. But if he doesn't have people to do the real
work on it, I don't see how such a person could ever finish such a project.
> As David Roden Said, we have a sorta sacred trust by James Worden to do a
great car. Anything less could break this kind and decent man's heart. He is
in our corner on this.
> Even for someone like me with 20 yrs composite experience in
low number production it wil be very hard. And there is no way he can make
it turn key to sell other than a couple with state Assembled from Parts
titles at a great cost.
>
> Jerry Dycus
>
> Well, we have a lot on, well, Jerry's plate for now.
Yes, but having the door molds would have been one less thing I have
to do. I'm very frugul so would not buy it if there wasn't a large reward,
profit in doing it.
BTW Jerry are you
coming to CT to meet this body, haul it back to FLA?
Today 'm getting a longer tongue put on my trailer for the MC to pull
up to your place. I'm watching the weather and as soon as a good 3 day stretch
come thru, I'll be on my way, probably Friday or so, should take me a little
over 3 days so probably get there Sun, Mon if the weather holds. Riding 1200
miles on a MC is no fun if it's rainy or snowing. Still hotter than hell here.
The Rabbit I got going,
stepped on the brake and a brake line broke, thew hardest one on thre damn
car to fix, under the rear swing arm, to access it you drop the chassis
bolts to let it down so you can undo it. With the torch was able to free up
the brake line tube ends, amazing as I usually bust those and haftas replace
half the lines in the car, for a simple repair. Parts come in tomorrow and
will have it back together in the AM. Will do some other STOMPS on it to
break anything else that is week in the system.By the time ya get here,
should have it roadworthy.
Cool, thanks for the Rabbit as it will be a great low cost way to
deliver, pick up the Sunrise body, ect and deliver the Freedom EV's. The cool
thing is I'll be able to run on Used Veg oil most of the time and it gets
50mpg.
I'll have to drive it easy but I do anyway. And all the towing loads
will be light.
The other molds in MA may be worth yur trouble? the "Chassis" ones
that we can have if we want.
Yes as at least the bottom half can not only save a couple grand
building it, it may be able to fit the Freedom EV as it's forward part of it's
chassis and use the same suspension, other parts saving much time on it. And
later as the basis for a Mini van/SUV/pickup EV's. These were always to be
part of the Freedom EV line up anyway so a nice start on them too. They could
be sold as EV chassis for other to put different bodies on like kit car, ect.
99% of luck is knowing, being ready to grab it when it comes.
I checked one U hall place they wanted 3 grand
for a OW to Fla!! Christ! You could BUY an old truck for less than that and
sell it if ya got there!Moulds inside, body on the trailer. It is getting to
be an expensive proposition just the transportation over great distances.
Now you know why I'll MC the trailer up there !! I would have flown
otherwise. After I get back here, I'll buy a larger trailer to come back up to
pick up the other mold, MC, ect. Trailers here are under $200 to buy so much
cheaper than renting. Could even build a custom one fairly easy, cheap.
Folks have chimed in with checks for the body, over half the 5600. bux
has come in. Many thanks, guys!
Cool, I've received $250 too on the Sunrise. We will keep all the
Freedom EV and Sunrise moneys, costs seperate so the Freedom EV can be kept MOL
on schedule. While this takes some time from the Freedom EV, it probably will
save time on the suspension, doors on the Freedom EV to make that up. The doors
look like an almost direct fit !!! We'll see.
After I see the body/molds, I'll make up a business plan and let
you all know about it. Those who helped early on will get the earliest
production slots and a discount if they want to buy one. Otherwise the money
will be returned with interest.
After the beta run of 50 for mostly EV'ers, early supporters, the
price will go up as will the range, ect. Hopefully by then Li-ion batts and a
BLDC/AC motor, ect, will be cost effective to make it even better. Of course,
the Sunrise will be up gradeable.
I have to come up with a better name. maybe Freedom-4 EV for 4
wheels, 4 seats, a take off of Doug's suggestion.. Any other ideas?
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
Seeya
Bob
>
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I know I asked a lot of questions and did get some answers, so I thought I'd
share the knowledge with any others still using the old school GE EV-1
controller or looking for an inexpensive motor.
1. The easiest way to retrofit the 24 - 48 V EV-1 controller is to replace
the card. You can get at least 84 V by upgrading the controller card to the
latest rev 5H9 (this cost me only $75, not too bad - it would have been better
if
I bought the base with the correct one, but that was my mistake.). It is a
drop in, and then you are set to go. I am still using the EV-1B base with 1A
bypass for acceleration, but the EV-1C with no 1A would be more to some
people's
liking.
2. Can the controller be run at higher voltages. A friend and I checked out
my old 007's wiring etc. I believe that car had an 84 V card and it ran at
120 V. That is if we cross refed the numbers right. They have a high power
resistor across two of the terminals - one of them card input voltage. I
figure
that is how they did it. So, off the cuff - it can be done, but we may need
to do some more reveres engineering to see if they made any other changes to
accommodate the 120 V.
3. The PMTD is critical to drop out the main contactor in case of a fault. I
didn't have one in my old car - definitely an oversight and poor engineering
on my part to drive the contactor coil off key switch with no safety
mechanism, except an e-stop on the dash.
4. As far as motors go, I looked at several industrial truck motors. The
smaller ones from the 24 V lift are probably too small even for a small car.
They weigh about 70 lb each and you can hook them end to end and run two in
parallel. They are set-up to be stacked. Some lift trucks have two. I could
have
bought two in salvage condition for $100, but they would need a lot of work
and a custom bearing design. The larger motors came out of 36 / 48 V lift.
Something like a crown truck. They are huge! I estimate 13" diameter -
roughly
- 250 - 300 lb - roughly. The cost would have been $300 for a salvage one,
but it was too large and heavy and coupling to it would have required a lot of
reverse engineering. So, I am still looking, but I'll keep the list updated
if I find a good motor at an inexpensive price.
Steve Powers
Atlanta, GA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The megger tests insulation yes but it also tests connections at very high
voltages and a higher level of current than a regular meter can do. Most
meters top out at 9v so it is possible for a component to break down at a
higher voltage and you would not know it with a regular meter. The megger's
voltage is 500 volts and usually close to 1 amp (depending on how fast you
crank it) so you can get a lot better idea of the connection.
-----Original Message-----
From: Evan Tuer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 7:07 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Cable Crimping Tools
A "Megger" generally refers to an insulation resistance tester. It
wouldn't be any use in determining the difference between a crimped
and a soldered connection.
On 10/4/05, Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> When in doubt use a Megger to test your connection. I myself think that
> soldering a connection would be much better than crimping it. I agree
that
> it is harder to do but guaranteed to have a better end result.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 6:16 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Cable Crimping Tools
>
>
> John Luck Home asked:
> > Why does everyone crimp these connectors instead of tinning the fine
> > stranded welding cable and soldering them into closed end ring
connectors.
> > Isn't this going to give better contact area from cable to lug?
>
> A perfect soldered connection is just as good as a perfect crimped
> connection. However, soldering takes more skill, especially for large
> connections. So crimping is more likely to produce a good connection when
> done by amateurs.
> --
> Lee Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don't laugh but I used my stove. I put the lug in between the coils of the
stove and used the element to heat it to melt the solder. Then I put the
cable in slowly and pulled the assembly off together with some insulated
pliers. It worked like a charm.
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Poulsen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 10:49 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Cable Crimping Tools
I think that most people would underestimate the amount of heat that
would have to be put into that size lug/wire in order to get a proper
solder joint. You'd need a pretty big electric iron. I think an
oxy/acet torch would work well, with a small tip.
Lee Hart wrote:
>John Luck Home asked:
>
>
>>Why does everyone crimp these connectors instead of tinning the fine
>>stranded welding cable and soldering them into closed end ring connectors.
>>Isn't this going to give better contact area from cable to lug?
>>
>>
>
>A perfect soldered connection is just as good as a perfect crimped
>connection. However, soldering takes more skill, especially for large
>connections. So crimping is more likely to produce a good connection when
>done by amateurs.
>--
>Lee Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The component in this case is a solid, metal to metal connection.
Please explain how testing it at 500V and 1 amp will give any "idea"
of the connection whatsoever :)
On 10/5/05, Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The megger tests insulation yes but it also tests connections at very high
> voltages and a higher level of current than a regular meter can do. Most
> meters top out at 9v so it is possible for a component to break down at a
> higher voltage and you would not know it with a regular meter. The megger's
> voltage is 500 volts and usually close to 1 amp (depending on how fast you
> crank it) so you can get a lot better idea of the connection.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Evan Tuer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 7:07 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Cable Crimping Tools
>
>
> A "Megger" generally refers to an insulation resistance tester. It
> wouldn't be any use in determining the difference between a crimped
> and a soldered connection.
>
>
> On 10/4/05, Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > When in doubt use a Megger to test your connection. I myself think that
> > soldering a connection would be much better than crimping it. I agree
> that
> > it is harder to do but guaranteed to have a better end result.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 6:16 PM
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: Re: Cable Crimping Tools
> >
> >
> > John Luck Home asked:
> > > Why does everyone crimp these connectors instead of tinning the fine
> > > stranded welding cable and soldering them into closed end ring
> connectors.
> > > Isn't this going to give better contact area from cable to lug?
> >
> > A perfect soldered connection is just as good as a perfect crimped
> > connection. However, soldering takes more skill, especially for large
> > connections. So crimping is more likely to produce a good connection when
> > done by amateurs.
> > --
> > Lee Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why not start with specifying an *affordable* AC drive, suitable for
the Sunrise.
Something that'll work with a sane battery voltage and a suitably
reconfigured motor.
Then the Sunrise can start off with a nice standard drive that is
cheap, has regen, is reliable, has adequate power and and is "safe".
And whoever makes the drive at least has the chance of making it work
in a standard application - much easier than any old combination of
car, controller and batteries. That comes later :)
On 10/5/05, Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Theoretical idea for the future:
>
> Might there be someone on this list who is capable of building a high
> current inverter for use with an industrial air cooled AC motor?
>
> Maybe the only thing holding back this item from being built is the
> lack of funds?
>
> What if I for example were to fund the first one to be built? How
> much might it cost? $6,000? $7,000? Less?
>
> Ideally, what I'd like to do with this inverter, is after the first
> one is built, make the schematics openly available so this item could
> be serviceable, modifiable, and be able to be improved on.
>
> Also, I'd like to find some place that builds electronic items and get
> a batch of them built and resell them at cost. AC for everyone!
>
> Question is, what's the minimum order a place like this would require?
> 10? 20? 50?
>
> Would there be enough people on this list to pay up front for one of
> these impressive inverters to help with the costs of getting the first
> batch built?
>
> I'd hate to pay for ~50 of these and have them stockpiled in my garage
> and it taking the rest of my life to get them sold and the money
> invested in them to be payed off...
>
> Or maybe there is a lurking off the shelf solution waiting to be found..?
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The easiest way is to install a shunt inline so you can read across the
shunt and determine its voltage drop. Since the shunt is a fixed resistance
you can determine the amount of current by its voltage drop.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Luck Home [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 2:41 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Measuring the current -- Was: First drive impressions
I want to use a system to measure the current flowing into and out of my
Battery Pack. I would prefer to use a DC current clamp type sensor, but the
only ones I can find are combined units where the display and the clamp are
in the same housing. Has anyone ever seen these meters where the sensing
clamp ring is external to the display - or does anyone know the principle of
their operation?.
I don't see how they can convert a DC current flowing through one of the
traction battery wires into some number of millivoilts to read on a meter.
I thought you could only do this with AC as it induces a current in an
adjacent wireas the AC current varied, but with DC it is a fixed magnetic
field and cannot induce a voltage in an adjacent wire.
Does this make sense....
Unless there is a meter that will read Magnetic field strength - is there ?
and convert this into a proportional voltage.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: First drive impressions
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Shanab" <
> > Check my math, I have a DMM conected to a shunt for amperage as my only
> > display. So this is an estimate.
> >
> Must be a good dmm ,many cheep ones don't work bucuse of noise from
> controller ..
>
>
> > I took a couple of first drives today and I cruised at 72 to 144 amps
> > 3rd gear about 45 to 55 mph
> >
> another way to brake in the motor is to let it run for a day slow . I
would
> be driving in 2nd , that 300zx that I did with 156 v will do 50 in 2nd ,
> this will help brake in the motor and keep the motor amps down
>
>
>
> > The most I saw was 312 amps during an acceleration.
> well thats batteries amps not motor amp , and that motor probable was
seeing
> the 1000 amps , the problem is these motors don't say anything , so you
have
> to take it easy in the begining ,
>
>
> >
> > considering a 204Volt(17*12) system that is cruiseing at ~14.4kw to
~29kw
> >
> > If I held this up for an hour I would get 45 to 50 miles
> >
> > 14000wh / 45mile = 311wh/mile
> > 29000wh / 50mile = 580 wh/mile
> >
> > Seems a little high?
> We talked about this being a big car , the one I did at 156v uses about
140
> amps at 55 ,,,, now my Porsche 924 at 218 v uses about 70 amps at 55 ,,,
> It probable will get better as you drive it around a bit and get the rust
> off the brakes and just the freeing up of the moving parts . .
> steve clunn
>
>
>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.9/116 - Release Date: 30/09/2005
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you are testing a metal to metal connection and get resistance that is
not good. We use them to test static wics and other conductors all the time
in the military. You crank em up and make sure that they are reading zero
ohms.
-----Original Message-----
From: Evan Tuer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 6:59 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Cable Crimping Tools
The component in this case is a solid, metal to metal connection.
Please explain how testing it at 500V and 1 amp will give any "idea"
of the connection whatsoever :)
On 10/5/05, Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The megger tests insulation yes but it also tests connections at very high
> voltages and a higher level of current than a regular meter can do. Most
> meters top out at 9v so it is possible for a component to break down at a
> higher voltage and you would not know it with a regular meter. The
megger's
> voltage is 500 volts and usually close to 1 amp (depending on how fast you
> crank it) so you can get a lot better idea of the connection.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Evan Tuer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 7:07 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Cable Crimping Tools
>
>
> A "Megger" generally refers to an insulation resistance tester. It
> wouldn't be any use in determining the difference between a crimped
> and a soldered connection.
>
>
> On 10/4/05, Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > When in doubt use a Megger to test your connection. I myself think that
> > soldering a connection would be much better than crimping it. I agree
> that
> > it is harder to do but guaranteed to have a better end result.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 6:16 PM
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: Re: Cable Crimping Tools
> >
> >
> > John Luck Home asked:
> > > Why does everyone crimp these connectors instead of tinning the fine
> > > stranded welding cable and soldering them into closed end ring
> connectors.
> > > Isn't this going to give better contact area from cable to lug?
> >
> > A perfect soldered connection is just as good as a perfect crimped
> > connection. However, soldering takes more skill, especially for large
> > connections. So crimping is more likely to produce a good connection
when
> > done by amateurs.
> > --
> > Lee Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> ... An athetlene torch works best ...
Is that like an Olympic torch?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 10/5/05, Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If you are testing a metal to metal connection and get resistance that is
> not good.
True.
> We use them to test static wics and other conductors all the time
> in the military. You crank em up and make sure that they are reading zero
> ohms.
That still tells you absolutely nothing about the quality of the
connection, other than it's made or not. We are taking about 10ths or
100ths of an Ohm. An insulation tester can't resolve this, and it's
just not the right tool for the job. In fact, there probably isn't a
right tool for the job (see Bill Dube's post), which is why there's so
much debate about what is the best method.
At the end of the day it comes down to mechanical and environmental
factors *in a given application* rather than simply the resistance of
the connection when you first make it, even if you can measure that.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Evan Tuer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 6:59 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Cable Crimping Tools
>
>
> The component in this case is a solid, metal to metal connection.
> Please explain how testing it at 500V and 1 amp will give any "idea"
> of the connection whatsoever :)
>
>
> On 10/5/05, Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > The megger tests insulation yes but it also tests connections at very high
> > voltages and a higher level of current than a regular meter can do. Most
> > meters top out at 9v so it is possible for a component to break down at a
> > higher voltage and you would not know it with a regular meter. The
> megger's
> > voltage is 500 volts and usually close to 1 amp (depending on how fast you
> > crank it) so you can get a lot better idea of the connection.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Evan Tuer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 7:07 AM
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: Re: Cable Crimping Tools
> >
> >
> > A "Megger" generally refers to an insulation resistance tester. It
> > wouldn't be any use in determining the difference between a crimped
> > and a soldered connection.
> >
> >
> > On 10/4/05, Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > When in doubt use a Megger to test your connection. I myself think that
> > > soldering a connection would be much better than crimping it. I agree
> > that
> > > it is harder to do but guaranteed to have a better end result.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 6:16 PM
> > > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > > Subject: Re: Cable Crimping Tools
> > >
> > >
> > > John Luck Home asked:
> > > > Why does everyone crimp these connectors instead of tinning the fine
> > > > stranded welding cable and soldering them into closed end ring
> > connectors.
> > > > Isn't this going to give better contact area from cable to lug?
> > >
> > > A perfect soldered connection is just as good as a perfect crimped
> > > connection. However, soldering takes more skill, especially for large
> > > connections. So crimping is more likely to produce a good connection
> when
> > > done by amateurs.
> > > --
> > > Lee Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A better instrument might be a Micro Ohmmeter. Kind of the opposite of the
megger, it is used to measure very small resistances as opposed to very
large resistances.
We have successfully used the Micro Ohmmeter to quality check high current
connections. Meggers and standard ohmmeters can not detect a loose
connection as effectively.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 4:42 AM
To: 'ev@listproc.sjsu.edu'
Subject: RE: Cable Crimping Tools
If you are testing a metal to metal connection and get resistance that is
not good. We use them to test static wics and other conductors all the time
in the military. You crank em up and make sure that they are reading zero
ohms.
-----Original Message-----
From: Evan Tuer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 6:59 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Cable Crimping Tools
The component in this case is a solid, metal to metal connection.
Please explain how testing it at 500V and 1 amp will give any "idea" of the
connection whatsoever :)
On 10/5/05, Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The megger tests insulation yes but it also tests connections at very
> high voltages and a higher level of current than a regular meter can
> do. Most meters top out at 9v so it is possible for a component to
> break down at a higher voltage and you would not know it with a
> regular meter. The
megger's
> voltage is 500 volts and usually close to 1 amp (depending on how fast
> you crank it) so you can get a lot better idea of the connection.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Evan Tuer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 7:07 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Cable Crimping Tools
>
>
> A "Megger" generally refers to an insulation resistance tester. It
> wouldn't be any use in determining the difference between a crimped
> and a soldered connection.
>
>
> On 10/4/05, Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > When in doubt use a Megger to test your connection. I myself think
> > that soldering a connection would be much better than crimping it.
> > I agree
> that
> > it is harder to do but guaranteed to have a better end result.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 6:16 PM
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: Re: Cable Crimping Tools
> >
> >
> > John Luck Home asked:
> > > Why does everyone crimp these connectors instead of tinning the
> > > fine stranded welding cable and soldering them into closed end
> > > ring
> connectors.
> > > Isn't this going to give better contact area from cable to lug?
> >
> > A perfect soldered connection is just as good as a perfect crimped
> > connection. However, soldering takes more skill, especially for
> > large connections. So crimping is more likely to produce a good
> > connection
when
> > done by amateurs.
> > --
> > Lee Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And another question I've got is how do you measure *directional* AC current
flowing into or out of a load like charging your EV from an AC induction
windmill? Probably would need a secondary volt coil and do a phase
differential comparison between the amps & volts like a wattmeter?
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 2:40 PM
Subject: Measuring the current -- Was: First drive impressions
> I want to use a system to measure the current flowing into and out of my
> Battery Pack. I would prefer to use a DC current clamp type sensor, but
the
> only ones I can find are combined units where the display and the clamp
are
> in the same housing. Has anyone ever seen these meters where the sensing
> clamp ring is external to the display - or does anyone know the principle
of
> their operation?.
>
> I don't see how they can convert a DC current flowing through one of the
> traction battery wires into some number of millivoilts to read on a
meter.
> I thought you could only do this with AC as it induces a current in an
> adjacent wireas the AC current varied, but with DC it is a fixed magnetic
> field and cannot induce a voltage in an adjacent wire.
>
> Does this make sense....
>
> Unless there is a meter that will read Magnetic field strength - is there
?
> and convert this into a proportional voltage.
>
> John
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 3:21 PM
> Subject: Re: First drive impressions
>
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jeff Shanab" <
> > > Check my math, I have a DMM conected to a shunt for amperage as my
only
> > > display. So this is an estimate.
> > >
> > Must be a good dmm ,many cheep ones don't work bucuse of noise from
> > controller ..
> >
> >
> > > I took a couple of first drives today and I cruised at 72 to 144 amps
> > > 3rd gear about 45 to 55 mph
> > >
> > another way to brake in the motor is to let it run for a day slow . I
> would
> > be driving in 2nd , that 300zx that I did with 156 v will do 50 in 2nd
,
> > this will help brake in the motor and keep the motor amps down
> >
> >
> >
> > > The most I saw was 312 amps during an acceleration.
> > well thats batteries amps not motor amp , and that motor probable was
> seeing
> > the 1000 amps , the problem is these motors don't say anything , so you
> have
> > to take it easy in the begining ,
> >
> >
> > >
> > > considering a 204Volt(17*12) system that is cruiseing at ~14.4kw to
> ~29kw
> > >
> > > If I held this up for an hour I would get 45 to 50 miles
> > >
> > > 14000wh / 45mile = 311wh/mile
> > > 29000wh / 50mile = 580 wh/mile
> > >
> > > Seems a little high?
> > We talked about this being a big car , the one I did at 156v uses about
> 140
> > amps at 55 ,,,, now my Porsche 924 at 218 v uses about 70 amps at 55
,,,
> > It probable will get better as you drive it around a bit and get the
rust
> > off the brakes and just the freeing up of the moving parts . .
> > steve clunn
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.9/116 - Release Date:
30/09/2005
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
