EV Digest 4796
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: DLS-55 ready to install. (My 220 vac version on 144VDC)
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Ovonic's NiMH battery info needed
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: We got the Sunrise !!!
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: DLS-55 ready to install.
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Ovonic's NiMH battery info needed
by "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: We got the Sunrise !!!
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Emailing: 655.html
by "Sharon Hoopes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Ovonic's NiMH battery info needed
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Thoughts/questions on getting an inverter built
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Ovonic's NiMH battery info needed
by "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) List Admin - was Re: Emailing: 655.html
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Ovonic's NiMH battery info needed
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Thoughts/questions on getting an inverter built
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) exploded battery
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: We got the Sunrise !!!
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: We got the Sunrise !!!
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) TN EV buses on eBay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Re: exploded battery
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Meggers/low resistance, was: RE: Cable Crimping Tools
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Crimp versus solder
by "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Industrial motors was: Re: Siemens EV Motors
by "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: We got the Sunrise !!! Glass vs plastic windshields
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: EV audio
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Meggers/low resistance, was: RE: Cable Crimping Tools
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: We got the Sunrise !!! Glass vs plastic windshields
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds good. Mine is hooked up similarly. I've got the black wire "hot"
connected to pack positive and white "other hot" (neutral I guess for the 120
vac version) hooked to negative. I've got the 220 vac version hooked to my 144
volt pack (which was originally intended to be 192 volts, so I bought the 220
vac version) with no issues to date. Mine right now is connected all the time
so it see's in the upwards of 170 volts while charging and it doesn't fuss. The
only thing I have not checked yet it whether it cuts out durring high current
pulls due to the voltage sag. Even if it does having a small accessory battery
fixes this issue. I was planning on hooking it to a relay so it only is on
durring driving, but it doesn't even register anything on the emeter while
sitting at idle so I'm woundering if it's even worth it..
Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:I've been using the DLS with AC power
to keep the aux battery charged. I've
made up a plug and will use just the hot & neutral. No ground. The DLS is
mounted to the frame of the car. Any other concerns? I'm hooking it up to
the controller so it will be on while running the car. I may unplug while
charging and plug back into the ac line. There is going to be a precharge
resistor. I am going to hook that up to the bypass relay.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Later,
Ricky
02 Red Insight #559
92 Saturn SC2 EV conversion in progress
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
djsharpe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The discharge graph suggests it is 13.2V or thereabouts.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Whalen
> Sent: Wednesday, 5 October 2005 11:59 AM
> To: EV Discussion List
> Subject: Re: Ovonic's NiMH battery info needed
>
> The only Ovonic/Cobasys BEV NiMH battery I'm aware of in
> current production is the following, but it's 12V, not 13.2V,
> and has a 85Ah capacity (@
> C/3):
>
>
http://www.cobasys.com/pdf/transportation/Series9500/Series_9500_Brochur
e.html
The 13.2V module consists of 11 of these 9500-series cells strapped
together and connected in series. The Cobasys series 9500 12V battery
consists of 10 cells strapped together and connected in series.
They are different, but the individual cells that make them up appear
identical and should have the same charge requirements. What little
charge information Cobasys appears to provide can be found in the
brochure for the 9500 series that targets stationary applications:
<http://www.cobasys.com/pdf/stationary/Series9500/ST_Series_9500_Brochur
e.html>
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Ellis wrote:
Can anyone post a link to a photo of what the Sunrise looks like assembled?
-Mike Ellis
Great timing! I just posted the latest additions to the EV Album including
a Solectria Sunrise. You can find it at:
http://evalbum.com/655.html
or the whole Album at:
http://evalbum.com
BTW, anyone who doesn't have their EV in the Album please consider
submitting it.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey
Webmaster
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
EV Tradin' Post at: http://evtradinpost.com
MAEAA at http://maeaa.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Are you somehow grounding ( earth ground) the body of the car?
If not, then you are at risk if there is a failure somewhere and the car
body becomes hot with respect to ground -- unless there is a GFI in the
power line to the charger - and, in the power line of every other piece of
equipment that has 120 or 240 AC fed to it.
I may have missed it, but why are you not using the ground line to ground
the box and car body?
Phil
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: DLS-55 ready to install.
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 16:08:53 -0700
I've been using the DLS with AC power to keep the aux battery charged.
I've made up a plug and will use just the hot & neutral. No ground. The
DLS is mounted to the frame of the car. Any other concerns? I'm hooking
it up to the controller so it will be on while running the car. I may
unplug while charging and plug back into the ac line. There is going to be
a precharge resistor. I am going to hook that up to the bypass relay.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to
get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What is the price of these? Could we do a bulk purchase?
David
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roger Stockton
Sent: Thursday, 6 October 2005 9:39 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Ovonic's NiMH battery info needed
djsharpe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The discharge graph suggests it is 13.2V or thereabouts.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Whalen
> Sent: Wednesday, 5 October 2005 11:59 AM
> To: EV Discussion List
> Subject: Re: Ovonic's NiMH battery info needed
>
> The only Ovonic/Cobasys BEV NiMH battery I'm aware of in
> current production is the following, but it's 12V, not 13.2V,
> and has a 85Ah capacity (@
> C/3):
>
>
http://www.cobasys.com/pdf/transportation/Series9500/Series_9500_Brochur
e.html
The 13.2V module consists of 11 of these 9500-series cells strapped
together and connected in series. The Cobasys series 9500 12V battery
consists of 10 cells strapped together and connected in series.
They are different, but the individual cells that make them up appear
identical and should have the same charge requirements. What little
charge information Cobasys appears to provide can be found in the
brochure for the 9500 series that targets stationary applications:
<http://www.cobasys.com/pdf/stationary/Series9500/ST_Series_9500_Brochur
e.html>
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Chancey wrote:
> http://evalbum.com/655.html
That's some nice looking interior. I wonder where they got it?
That car is in mint condition! Very light weight for being a complete
car. A shame about it's 0-60mph performance though.. Needs to be a
real performer to shed the EV stereotypes and be worth the asking
price.
That complete one on eBay a while back was asking ~$80,000 was it not?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
check this out!!!
Bill & Sharon Hoopes
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Title: Stephen Taylor's Solectria Sunrise
Last Updated: 10/05/05
|
Solectria Sunrise
|
|
|
| Owner: |
Stephen Taylor |
| Location: |
Marietta, Georgia |
| Email: |
![]() |
| Base Vehicle: |
Solectria Sunrise |
| Motor: |
Solectria AC-GTX-20 |
| Drivetrain: |
Solectria Single Speed Transmission |
| Controller: |
Solectria UMOC440F |
| Batteries: |
twenty-one twelve volt group 24 Deka AGMs |
| System Voltage: |
252 Volts |
| Charger: |
NLG4 |
| Heater: |
Solectria Heating and AC Systems |
| DC/DC Converter: |
Solectria DC-DC 750 |
| Instrumentation: |
Amp Hour meter and Ammeter |
| Top Speed: |
75 mph |
| Acceleration: |
0-60 in 17 seconds |
| Range: |
50 mile range bringing pack to its nominal voltage of 252 volts |
| Seating Capacity: |
4 adults |
| Curb Weight: |
Approximately 2300 pounds |
| Tires: |
Goodyear Invicta |
| Conversion Time: |
n/a |
| Conversion Cost: |
n/a |
| With its smooth ride and power the Sunrise makes a great
highway vehicle. Planning on changing the batteries to 22 U27 Valence Lithium
within the next few months. This will increase nominal voltage to 281.6
volts and should increase range into the mid 200's. |
|
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger,
Better than nothing, but still not a thing about charging profile.
I know more details about charging, but would love to see original
Ovonic's info.
Roger Stockton wrote:
http://www.cobasys.com/pdf/transportation/Series9500/Series_9500_Brochur
e.html
The 13.2V module consists of 11 of these 9500-series cells strapped
together and connected in series. The Cobasys series 9500 12V battery
consists of 10 cells strapped together and connected in series.
They are different, but the individual cells that make them up appear
identical and should have the same charge requirements. What little
charge information Cobasys appears to provide can be found in the
brochure for the 9500 series that targets stationary applications:
<http://www.cobasys.com/pdf/stationary/Series9500/ST_Series_9500_Brochur
e.html>
Cheers,
Roger.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I agree and disagree. I'll do the agree part in this post and the
disagree part in the next post.
Here is a repeat of a post I made years ago:
I'd add three more factors to the acceleration equation: Efficiency,
area-under-the-curve, and less current. It is my belief <dons
absestos suit> that under racing conditions (thousands of amps) DC is
about 50% to 60% efficient, and AC about 70% to 80% efficient. The
torque band of an AC motor is broader and flatter, giving more "area
under the curve," valuable for racing -- less shifting is needed, and
your torque doesn't fall off at higher rpm. Finally, AC gets more of
its enery from voltage, and less from current (power = voltage *
current). The batteries sag less and more energy is available from
the batteries thanks to Peukert.
Case in point: The White Zombie is lighter (about 2000 lbs with
driver) than the Tzero (about 2500 lbs). Per John Wayland past posts
it makes more power. Even so, the cars run 13.2 second quarter mile
times (even though the Tzero is governed at 90 mph for the last half
of the run). While there are alot of variables that could account for
differences, it could be the higher efficiency of AC, even if it is
just 10% better under race conditions, and less voltage sag, account
for the difference.
Revisiting the current thing:
P = IV (zero resistance batteries)
P = I*(V-IR) (battery sag included)
So assuming cars with 28 batteries of 5 milliohms each, DC car with
60% efficiency and AC with 70% efficiency, DC with 1000 Amps and AC
with 500 Amps:
P(dc car, nominal input) = 1000 Amps * 28 * 12 V = 336 kW
P(dc car) = 1000 Amps * 28*(12V - 1000 Amps * 0.005 ohms) * 0.6 = 118
kW at the rear wheels
P(AC car, nominal input) = 500 Amps * 28 * 12 V = 168 kW
P(AC car) = 500 Amps * 28*(300V - 500Amps * 0.005 ohms) * 0.7 = 93 kW
at the rear wheels
I was surprised to see that for a DC car with twice the nominal input
power, it had only 25% more power at the rear wheels than an AC car.
Less voltage sag and 10% more efficiency account for the difference.
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> DC is sort of like a diesel motor. Gives you all it's got, then
> falls
> on it's face not too many rpm into it.
>
> 10 or 15 thousand rpm AC is like a 1+ liter sport bike or a top
> fuel
> car. Part of the reason each of those is so fast is because they
> wrap
> the gears out so long and so far.
>
> Think about if you and I were in separate cars of the same models
> and
> weight. The only difference being that my motor goes to 10,000 rpm
> and yours only to 5,000 rpm. You hit 5 grand and are shifting into
> second and I'm still wrapping out that low gear. I'm getting
> double
> the pull from each gear you are and also think about how fast
> things
> are turning at 10,000rpm vs's 5,000rpm..
>
> Who's going to win this imaginary race?
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Victor,
When I contacted Zivan USA they said they have a charging profile for Ovonics.
I'm hoping to have 15 of my 30 13.2v's in my Force.
Solectria must have the charging profile as they used them in the Force for
awhile. There is a document on the Internet when two Forces, EV15 and EVHQ
were tested. No charging profiles but interesting reading.
I'll let you know if I can get the charger and controller reprogrammed.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: "Victor Tikhonov"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 10/5/05 5:39:04 PM
To: "ev@listproc.sjsu.edu"<ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Ovonic's NiMH battery info needed
Roger,
Better than nothing, but still not a thing about charging profile.
I know more details about charging, but would love to see original
Ovonic's info.
Roger Stockton wrote:
>
> http://www.cobasys.com/pdf/transportation/Series9500/Series_9500_Brochur
> e.html
>
> The 13.2V module consists of 11 of these 9500-series cells strapped
> together and connected in series. The Cobasys series 9500 12V battery
> consists of 10 cells strapped together and connected in series.
>
> They are different, but the individual cells that make them up appear
> identical and should have the same charge requirements. What little
> charge information Cobasys appears to provide can be found in the
> brochure for the 9500 series that targets stationary applications:
>
> <http://www.cobasys.com/pdf/stationary/Series9500/ST_Series_9500_Brochur
> e.html>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello List Admins,
Isn't the maillist software supposed to strip all attachments? How did
the file that was attached to the "Emailing: 655.html" message make it
through? (Just concerned that other "nasty" attachments might through...)
thanks,
Andrew
Sharon Hoopes wrote:
check this out!!!
Bill & Sharon Hoopes
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Better than nothing, but still not a thing about charging
> profile. I know more details about charging, but would love
> to see original Ovonic's info.
You and me both, Victor!
If you manage to find more information, please share it; I will do
likewise.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Now for the disagree part:
Look at White Zombie now, knocking on the 11's door! To first order,
AC and DC are pretty close in performance. Yes, the AC motor may rev
twice as high, but it'll only have 1/2 the torque then -- there is no
free lunch.
I think the analogy is closer to racing similar cars, but you get to
use regular gas and I get to use dragster nitro. Lead acid batteries
are like regular gas, and exotic batteries (like kokams) are like
nitro fuel.
The Tzero did 0 to 60 mph (0 to 96 km/hr) in 4.1 seconds with lead
acid batteries. It does 0 to 60 in 3.6 seconds with Lion batteries,
and the battery pack was about 1/2 the weight! Imagine a full load of
lion batteries and enough motor to handle the current! Anyone want to
sponsor me for $100k of Lion batteries?
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> DC is sort of like a diesel motor. Gives you all it's got, then
> falls
> on it's face not too many rpm into it.
>
> 10 or 15 thousand rpm AC is like a 1+ liter sport bike or a top
> fuel
> car. Part of the reason each of those is so fast is because they
> wrap
> the gears out so long and so far.
>
> Think about if you and I were in separate cars of the same models
> and
> weight. The only difference being that my motor goes to 10,000 rpm
> and yours only to 5,000 rpm. You hit 5 grand and are shifting into
> second and I'm still wrapping out that low gear. I'm getting
> double
> the pull from each gear you are and also think about how fast
> things
> are turning at 10,000rpm vs's 5,000rpm..
>
> Who's going to win this imaginary race?
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I snapped some pics last night of the battery that I had explode.
It blew up a couple years ago, so the pic makes it seem in a lot worse shape
(older) than it was at the time. It actually was only a year old when it blew.
It is at
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev/lst?&.dir=/exploded+battery
http://tinyurl.com/cp3as
Stay Charged!
Hump
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ryan and All,
Thanks All for those picks. They look great.
Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Mike Chancey wrote:
> http://evalbum.com/655.html
That's some nice looking interior. I wonder where they got it?
Done well by the factory probably. It is well done there and I hope
I get the stuff needed to duplicate it.
That car is in mint condition! Very light weight for being a complete
car. A shame about it's 0-60mph performance though.. Needs to be a
real performer to shed the EV stereotypes and be worth the asking
price.
It should be it only has 5,000 and just been titled for the first time.
That complete one on eBay a while back was asking ~$80,000 was it not?
That is it and it sold without good batts and not running for much
less.
Stephen is a very nice guy and has some other EV's. He is very happy
there is now a parts supplier for his and looks forward to a glass rear, side
windows windows. I suggested to wait a while before switching to li-ions until
his new lead pack needs replacing, they should drop in price quite a bit by
then. Valance couldn't be much higher !! They are talking that they are opening
batt shops in China to lower the cost.
He is having some controller issues, lack of start off speed, though
works better when going faster. And it's not just that it's an AC as he has
Selectria Forces that use the same ones. It maybe how it's software is set up
as it probably was a competition, long range car so if anyone knows Selectria
controllers, their software, he could use some help. E mail me and I'll send
you his E mail URL
I can't use Lexan windshields becaus of Gov rules. Why they are not
used is you need to replace them in 2-6 yrs from sun, age damage and if your
head hits it, it will break your neck !!
Of course they don't mention that if your head only goes thru a
safety windshield glass, the glue holds it together so it springs back around
your neck, strangling you.. As I always use my seatbelt in cars, I'd prefer the
Lexan and cover the windshield from the sun for the 40 lbs weight savings.
So to solve this I'm putting in 4 or 5 point seatbelts and there will
be an option of airbags as I've found out were designed in !!! I might use the
whole dash too on my Freedom EV besides the rest of the front chassis just to
have airbags..
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ran wrote:
Mike Chancey wrote:
> http://evalbum.com/655.html
That's some nice looking interior. I wonder where they got it?
That car is in mint condition! Very light weight for being a complete
car. A shame about it's 0-60mph performance though.. Needs to be a
real performer to shed the EV stereotypes and be worth the asking
price.
That complete one on eBay a while back was asking ~$80,000 was it not?
That is the one off eBay. I think it went for something less than that.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
...with no reserve:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4580089617
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:15 PM 5/10/05 -0600, Hump wrote:
I snapped some pics last night of the battery that I had explode.
It is at
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev/lst?&.dir=/exploded+battery
Which unfortunately is a place that has sold its soul to yahoo, so many
people won't be able to view it (me included).
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 05:40 PM 5/10/05 -0500, Ryan Stotts wrote:
> Use clean lugs, clean copper and solder or crimp as your choice - but for
> my money it's crimp, then put glue-lined heatshrink over the terminal
> (including the small hole that is often in the ring end of the cable
> insertion tube) to keep corrosion at bay.
Do I need to put "Noalox" in my lugs or not when I'm crimping them?
http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/hardware.shtml
"need" is a subjective term. Most of the connections I've done haven't had
to put up with battery acid. To get longest life in proximity to batteries
and battery acid, yes.
How much longer? don't know.
Anybody got any idea?
James
PS: when using glue-lined heatshrink, make sure that you get the lug hot
enough as well as the tubing, or you may not get adequate seal against the
metal.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov asks:
> Does it say if the code applies to an OEM manufactured vehicles or
> home built hobby ones too?
Safety codes in the USA are peculiar; they are generally *not* government
standards, and are *not* enforced by law.
The NEC (National Electric Code) was written by an insurance industry trade
organization; the NFPA (the National Fire Prevention Association). The NEC
is their *suggestion* for a set of guidelines that communities can use to
regulate how buildings are wired. What generally happens is that your local
city writes its building codes to say "must meet NEC..." with whatever
wording and modifications they might choose to add. The only enforcement
authority is your local building inspector. The only penalty for
non-compliance is whatever your community happened to put in their building
codes.
The NEC specifically says it applies to *buildings*; not cars or other
vehicles. It also does not apply to any manufactured products; in general,
that's the "turf" of UL (Underwriter's Laboratories). It is highly unusual
for the NEC to get involved in electric vehicles at all.
Roland Wiench asks:
> You're not allowed to sell to public unconforming hardware.
The NEC places *no* limits on what you can sell, nor on what you can build.
All the NEC does is provide hints to your building inspector for what he
will approve. Building inspectors normally only see new building
construction. They'll never know, and don't have any authority to ask, what
you plug into that new outlet in your garage.
UL places no limits on what manufacturers can build, or on what they can
sell. They have no authority to do so. But, your local community may have
written local ordinances that *do* require "listed" electrical equipment.
Los Angeles and Chicago have done this. Plus, many companies and other
organizations have chosen to require "listed" electrical equipment; such as
a school, hospital, or store that uses "UL" as an informal safety indicator.
--
Lee Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> How good would these work in an EV?
James Massey replied:
> Adequately, but the issues are to do with the mass and size of the
inverter
> (physically big and fairly heavy) and that it is not designed for the
> application and has a fair bit of 'tuning' to make the drive match a
motor.
> At higher voltages there is the issue of how do you charge and manage
such
> a long string, and can you even get batteries whose cases have sufficient
> dielectric strength.
Note that the Toyota Prius engineers chose to use a lower-voltage pack
(250vdc), and follow it with a boost converter to produce 500vdc to run
their inverters. The same approach might be worthwhile in a pure EV to get
the number of batteries down.
> The mass of the inverters could be significantly reduced - the power
stage
> could be put on a watercooled heatsink, the mounting rails and principle
> chassis replaced by lighter ones. The input rectifier and filter chokes
> could mostly go. The buss capacitors could be reduced since they will be
> across the battery.
Did these inverters happen to include power factor correction? If so, they
may already have a usable boost converter.
> Lee may have some comments. Lee?
I've reverse-engineered a couple industrial inverters. There seem to be two
basic types; smaller cheaper lightly-built ones for non-critical
applicaitions where life and reliability don't matter all that much. And
big, heavy, expensive inverters that are built like battleships and will
probably last for decades.
Both types would require significant modification to become a decent EV
inverter. Not terribly difficult, but tedious and expensive if you were
paying someone by the hour to do it.
The more challenging problem is that most industrial inverters aren't built
for as wide a speed and torque range as you would need for a
transmissionless EV. Rarely would they ever need to run from 0 to 12,000
rpm. A more normal range is 500-8000 rpm, with only brief time spent from
0-1000 to get it started.
However, this could be fine for an EV conversion that retains the clutch
and transmission.
--
Lee Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> James
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--- Begin Message ---
Glass is required by DOT because, even after a couple of hundred thousand
miles, you can (usually) still see out of it.
Even with a "scratch resistant" coating, with time a plastic windshield
would become so scratched and pitted that it would make for unsafe ( or
impossible) driving.
Phil
From: Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: We got the Sunrise !!!
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 16:52:59 -0500
Mike Ellis wrote:
> Can anyone post a link to a photo of what the Sunrise looks like
assembled?
Here's some pics:
http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&safe=off&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2005-07,GGLD:en&q=solectria+sunrise
One of my favorite features is the aerodynamic underside:
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/6875/336oj.gif
Also the fact that the vehicle is made out of composite and that
battery tunnel makes for good placement of the batteries and keeps
them low to the ground, vs's putting them high up in the trunk in a
convention conversion. I also like how it uses off the shelf parts
for the front and rear suspension and the windshield(and more).
------
It doesn't make sense to me why a laminated glass windshield is
required to meet DOT specs. NASCAR's don't use a glass windshield...
Seems like non glass would be safer?
For you guys building the Sunrise, check this out for your side and
rear windows:
http://www.percyshp.com/producthomespeedglass.html
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Evan Tuer wrote:
Hi John,
Thanks for the informative followup!
You're welcome.
Yes, I should have specified that I didn't mean it to work with a
traditional head unit in a typical car conversion. But more for the
lighter, custom built or minimalist EVs as you mentioned, using an
ipod or something like that for the source.
Yes, as I said, that little amp is perfect for such an application.
Do you know of
anyone making decent, high sensitivity speakers (8 or 16 Ohm) that
would fit the normal car door position?
No to the 8 or 16 ohm question. Pretty much all car audio full range
type drivers are 4 ohm. 16 is unheard of, as the lower the impedance
with non-switching type car amps such as built in head unit chip amps,
the higher power one can extract when the power supply is just 12V. This
is why everything is at 4 ohms instead of home stereo 8 ohm standard, to
get more power. With the advent of beefy switching supply type car amps
in the mid 70s, that 4 ohm thing wasn't as important as it was when
these powerful amps didn't exist, but even so, the 4 ohm standard
remains because head units still have to rely on the 12V supply to make
audio power with their chip amps, so 4 ohms it is. 8 ohms 'is' available
in subwoofers, as when using multiple bass drivers it can be useful to
get down to 4 or 2 ohms....two 8 ohm bass drivers in a subwoofer cabinet
wired in parallel make a 4 ohm load...perfect for a mono-bridged
switching power supply type amp that wants 4 ohms to make its top output
power.
It's also no, to the high sensitivity question as well. Knowing that
anyone interested in high clarity car audio will also already have a
switching supply type car amp capable of delivering any power level
needed, the higher quality speaker makers don't focus on efficiency,
rather, they simply make them sound the very best they can. So as it
turns out, the higher end car audio speakers are usually more
inefficient, not more efficient. In fact, if one has a tight budget and
does not have the dollars to spend on an outboard amp, it's a bad idea
to run expensive, higher end front sound stage speakers when powered off
the head unit's low power, higher distortion chip amps....you're better
off running on lower priced 'OK' speakers instead. They'll play louder
and not faithfully reproduce the inherent distortion of the head unit's
'OK' amps. I can't tell you how many car stereo newbies run out and get
expensive speakers, like MB Quarts, then run them off the head unit's
limited power amps, then complain about how those high end speakers they
paid so much for, don't get very loud and don't sound a whole lot better
than their previous Pioneer or Kenwood $65 a pair coaxials did. You have
to hit higher end speakers with a clean, solid 25+ watts of power to
make them sing like they were designed to do. The Quarts I run in my
soundoff Insight get an honest 150W rms each, at high volume levels. You
can almost see them smiling with that much clean power coursing through
their voice coils :-)
I'm not sure why you are looking for higher impedances like 8 and 16
ohms, but you might try looking for the small ADS brand 8 ohm
minispeakers that were marketed in the early 80s. They are self
contained mini speaker enclosures, painted black, and are about 5.75
inches wide, 9 inches tall, and about 8 inches deep. They have a 5.25
inch midrange-bass driver loaded as an air suspension design, and a one
inch soft dome silk tweeter behind a see-through black mesh grill. They
are not particularly efficient considering that they are an air
suspension type, but they are 8 ohms and they sound spectacular! I
lucked out and found a near mint condition set at a garage sale two
years ago for $5 for the pair (new in the mid 80s, they were about $250
a pair). They have a tweeter fuse located behind the grill that's almost
impossible to know about, that often blows when an idiot plays them loud
on a stereo that's got too little power to deliver clean sine wave
power, and when the power clips to being more square wave, these tweeter
fuses say 'We're outta here!' Once the fuse blows, they sound awful,
hence they end up in garage sales for $5! Such was the case when I found
my pair. Two new fuses later and powered by a clean amp, they played as
new again. A pair of these and that little amp, would sound darn good in
a minimalist type EV...they even make decent bass, so you won't need a
sub to have full range sound.
Hope this helps.
See Ya....John Wayland
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--- Begin Message ---
Just a question. Why would you put Noalox (No ALuminum OXide) designed for
aluminum wiring on a copper cable? As I understand it, it is not an
electrically conductive material, it is designed to prevent aluminum wiring
from oxidizing due to moisture. I have seen several shops that use a
"grease" to keep the battery fumes from attacking the cable connectors and
battery connections. I have not yet asked what brand it is sold under.
respectfully,
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: Meggers/low resistance, was: RE: Cable Crimping Tools
> James Massey wrote:
>
> > Use clean lugs, clean copper and solder or crimp as your choice - but
for
> > my money it's crimp, then put glue-lined heatshrink over the terminal
> > (including the small hole that is often in the ring end of the cable
> > insertion tube) to keep corrosion at bay.
>
> Do I need to put "Noalox" in my lugs or not when I'm crimping them?
>
> http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/hardware.shtml
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The other point is when DOT glass is broken it will
make little bits that are not sharp and won't cut you
without alot of effort. Where as plastic can cut you
up if broken.
--- Phil Marino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Glass is required by DOT because, even after a
> couple of hundred thousand
> miles, you can (usually) still see out of it.
>
> Even with a "scratch resistant" coating, with time a
> plastic windshield
> would become so scratched and pitted that it would
> make for unsafe ( or
> impossible) driving.
>
> Phil
>
>
> >From: Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >Subject: Re: We got the Sunrise !!!
> >Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 16:52:59 -0500
> >
> >Mike Ellis wrote:
> > > Can anyone post a link to a photo of what the
> Sunrise looks like
> >assembled?
> >
> >Here's some pics:
> >
>
>http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&safe=off&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2005-07,GGLD:en&q=solectria+sunrise
> >
> >One of my favorite features is the aerodynamic
> underside:
> >
> >http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/6875/336oj.gif
> >
> >Also the fact that the vehicle is made out of
> composite and that
> >battery tunnel makes for good placement of the
> batteries and keeps
> >them low to the ground, vs's putting them high up
> in the trunk in a
> >convention conversion. I also like how it uses off
> the shelf parts
> >for the front and rear suspension and the
> windshield(and more).
> >
> >------
> >
> >It doesn't make sense to me why a laminated glass
> windshield is
> >required to meet DOT specs. NASCAR's don't use a
> glass windshield...
> >Seems like non glass would be safer?
> >
> >For you guys building the Sunrise, check this out
> for your side and
> >rear windows:
> >
> >http://www.percyshp.com/producthomespeedglass.html
> >
>
>
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> Download today - it's FREE!
>
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>
>
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