EV Digest 4800
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: DLS-55 ready to install - safely grounded?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: DLS-55 ready to install.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Crimp versus solder
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: AGM battery bulk order: $85 for 110Ah 12V
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) A though on Hybrid design down and dirty.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Crimp versus solder
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Crimp versus solder
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Cruise control in EVision
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Cruise control in EVision
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: PFC20 Acceptance voltage set point
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Ovonic's NiMH battery info needed
by "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Ovonic's NiMH battery info needed
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: happieness is 36,000 watts
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: High- and Low-Votage Charging
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Need advice on a Porsche conversion candidate
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: MILLI-ohm meter, was: Cable Crimping Tools
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Ovonic's NiMH battery info needed
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: MILLI-ohm meter, was: Cable Crimping Tools
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Separate 12volt chargers
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Battery Isolator
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Need advice on a Porsche conversion candidate
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) 12V parts misused, was: Re: Battery Isolator
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Cable Crimping Tools
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: exploded battery
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I have my Charger connected normally. Lawrence Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 5:15 AM
Subject: Re: DLS-55 ready to install - safely grounded?
Connecting the box to the body of the car doesn't do anything to ground
the car if the box isn't grounded either.
Is the car ( or the box, since they are connected together) connected to
earth ground ( the green wire from your outlet) ?
You need a ground wire connected to the car body ( and, preferably, a GFI,
also) , so the car can't become hot relative to ground. If it did, it
would be dangerous for you and any one else who could come into contact
with the car while it was plugged in.
Phil
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: DLS-55 ready to install.
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 01:08:17 -0700
The box is connected to the body of the car. LR........
----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 4:57 PM
Subject: RE: DLS-55 ready to install.
Are you somehow grounding ( earth ground) the body of the car?
If not, then you are at risk if there is a failure somewhere and the car
body becomes hot with respect to ground -- unless there is a GFI in the
power line to the charger - and, in the power line of every other piece
of equipment that has 120 or 240 AC fed to it.
I may have missed it, but why are you not using the ground line to ground
the box and car body?
Phil
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: DLS-55 ready to install.
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 16:08:53 -0700
I've been using the DLS with AC power to keep the aux battery charged.
I've made up a plug and will use just the hot & neutral. No ground.
The DLS is mounted to the frame of the car. Any other concerns? I'm
hooking it up to the controller so it will be on while running the car.
I may unplug while charging and plug back into the ac line. There is
going to be a precharge resistor. I am going to hook that up to the
bypass relay.
Lawrence Rhodes
_________________________________________________________________
Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
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--- Begin Message ---
I am connecting it to the controller. Seems I'll need a pricharge resistor
of maybe a higher value or maybe lower to protect the contactor. I was
going to use 200 ohms. What value should I use now? Leave it alone? Now
I'm not sure.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 7:44 AM
Subject: Re: DLS-55 ready to install.
Lawrence -- I guess you noticed the huge inrush current when powering
this thing up? I have a melted spot on my plug from when I first
plugged it in.
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
I've been using the DLS with AC power to keep the aux battery charged.
I've made up a plug and will use just the hot & neutral. No ground. The
DLS is mounted to the frame of the car. Any other concerns? I'm hooking
it up to the controller so it will be on while running the car. I may
unplug while charging and plug back into the ac line. There is going to
be a precharge resistor. I am going to hook that up to the bypass relay.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--- Begin Message ---
On 6 Oct 2005 at 10:08, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> What is definition of "local community".
I'm not an attorney, but I'm fairly sure it means the city or township in
which you live. You are subject to their laws and ordinances, including the
building code.
>
> If I build (convert) EVs for sale in my garage which is physically
> located in this community (neighborhood, city) but my business
> oficially registered (And lo located) in Delaware (where the sale
> transaction happened from), do I care about local decisions?
> (I really do, I mean legally).
Again see the above disclaimer. I belive that you have to abide by any
local, state, or federal laws that apply to your business. You probably
aren't permitted to dump toxins or flammable liquids down the municipal
sewer, for example.
As for meeting UL or other requirements for your product, I'm pretty sure
that depends only on the buyer. Rich's chargers are (AFAIK) still entirely
unlisted with UL or anyone else, but no one stops him from selling them.
However, some buyers may have good reasons to not purchase an unlisted
product. For example, institutions such as government agencies,
universities, and large corporations may have written requirements for
equipment, including those stating that electrical products must bear the UL
mark.
Also, I've read that if one installs unlisted / unapproved electrical parts
in his home and they cause a fire, in some cases the insurance adjuster may
refuse the claim. I don't know how true this is - I don't know anybody to
whom it's happened - but it may be another reason for buyers to avoid
products that haven't qualified themselves for the regulatory seals of
approval.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What weighs 101 lbs?
According to Universal Batteries' website, the UB121100 weighs 72.75 lbs.
> They weigh 101 pounds each. It might be interesting to try them in a
> small
> conversion. 10 of them would fit where 96v fit in a Volks Rabbit. About
> the same weight 1000 pounds. Maybe a tad lighter by 70 pounds. A little
> cheaper in price by thirty dollars. No watering. You'll need regulators
> but only as many as you have batteries. Might be a good deal. Let us
> know.
> Lawrence Rhodes...
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 11:47 PM
> Subject: AGM battery bulk order: $85 for 110Ah 12V
>
>
>> Quick update:
>>
>> To get my US Electricar (converted S-10) on the road and help
>> a fellow EV to get his share of lead, I will be ordering my
>> batteries tomorrow (Thursday) morning with Universal Power.
>> My battery of choice is the UB121100 because of its 1-hour
>> 80 Ah capacity (110Ah in 20h), 4 mOhm and its resilience to
>> full discharge and -last but not least- its interesting
>> price of $85 each including shipping in quantity.
>>
>> If you want to join the bulk-order then give me a quick note
>> or better call me right away if you are in the SF Bay area,
>> the batteries will be delivered to Sunnyvale by Friday.
>> I can arrange for local transport within reason, as I am
>> not making a profit here - just busy getting my own truck
>> stocked up and helping another EV'er in the process to get
>> on the road with cheap batteries.
>>
>> NOTE (disclaimer) that these batteries should work great in
>> an EV, because they are the best technology (AGM) to withstand
>> the vibration and shocks of an automotive environment. But they
>> have never (as far as I know) been tested in EVs, so they may
>> result in lower nr of cycles or other behaviour that results
>> in a shorter lifetime than the proven battery brands.
>> At less than half the price of the other brands, I am willing
>> to take that risk and test these batteries in my EV, but I
>> feel that it is not more than fair that I tell you both sides
>> of the story.
>> I am no sales man and have no interest in UB batteries, other
>> than getting a good price for my own purchase in a bulk buy.
>>
>> I need a good price, because now I can have my batteries by
>> the end of this week, with the other brands I would still
>> be saving for a few more months an my EV be sitting idle.
>>
>> These batteries will have 1-year warranty and 20% loss of
>> capacity qualifies as manufacturing defect (according the
>> sales rep).
>>
>> I also asked if I needed to order all the same type batteries
>> and he said that I can order a mix, they all qualify for the
>> discount price and free shipping if its one order and one
>> address.
>> Examples of other types and prices:
>> Group 27 90 Ah (UB12900) $76
>> Group 24 75 Ah (UB12750) $62
>> UB12400 40Ah is one inch longer than the 35Ah Hawkers - $37
>> UB12350 35Ah is 7.7 x 5.1 x 7" for $27
>> on the other end of the scale:
>> 200Ah 12V is 20.5 x 8.1 x 10" for $165
>> 250Ah 12V is 20.5 x 10.5 x 10" for $222
>>
>> The battery I will be running is the Group 30 UB121100 and
>> I will have a small secondary battery box welded as 22 of
>> these batteries will precisely fill up the original box
>> designed for 52x 35Ah Hawkers.
>> The remaining 4 will go in this shallow box behind the
>> rear axle.
>> I'll let you know the progress and photos in the coming
>> weeks, just to add to the traffic on this list ;-)
>>
>> Keep chargin'
>>
>> Cor van de Water
>> Systems Architect
>> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
>> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
>> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-84-717-9972
>> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
>> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
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I've put together a few conversions now and to be honest some are easy and
others hard. One thing that might make a good quick conversion and hybrid
is to just carry the pack in a trailer. Switch. Carry the ICE in the
trailer. No carrying around the pack when you don't need it. The only
problem I can see is handling of the car. It will be very light and the
motor does balance things a bit. Is this a strategy anyone has done with
success?
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Someone on this list (possibly you, though I'm not sure) was saying out
the UL (or maybe it was another electrical safety organization) is
essentially a money-making scam. I believe it was in reference to how
well power strips were constructed and 2 power strips that both had UL
ratings, yet one would overheat when subjected to higher currents, and
the other would not ...
Lee Hart wrote:
UL places no limits on what manufacturers can build, or on what they can
sell. They have no authority to do so. But, your local community may have
written local ordinances that *do* require "listed" electrical equipment.
Los Angeles and Chicago have done this. Plus, many companies and other
organizations have chosen to require "listed" electrical equipment; such as
a school, hospital, or store that uses "UL" as an informal safety indicator.
--
Lee Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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David Roden wrote:
Also, I've read that if one installs unlisted / unapproved electrical parts
in his home and they cause a fire, in some cases the insurance adjuster may
refuse the claim. I don't know how true this is - I don't know anybody to
whom it's happened - but it may be another reason for buyers to avoid
products that haven't qualified themselves for the regulatory seals of
approval.
I'm not sure about insurance - theya are suppose to pay for
accidental damages, not evaluate reasons for damages. In theory
of course :-(
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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Does this mean that it will also work for the HEPA pedals which Otmar sells?
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
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--- Begin Message ---
Have no idea what HEPA pedal is. Got link?
Victor
Rush wrote:
Does this mean that it will also work for the HEPA pedals which Otmar sells?
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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OK on the next day. That's what they will ship as. got the paper work done..
Rich Rudman
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> >Are you placing a order with EV parts??
> yes! (Man you have been busy, haven't you?)
>
> >I have the Regs in hand... I can ship to EV parts or drop ship Like first
> >thing in the morning.
>
> PLEASE DO, I would like to work on it this weekend! (gladly pay "next day"
> shipping)
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Victor,
Zivan said they would program a new one for me.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: "Victor Tikhonov"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 10/6/05 10:03:58 AM
To: "ev@listproc.sjsu.edu"<ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Ovonic's NiMH battery info needed
Noel,
It would be good if you can get this profile from them.
I'll ask too, but if you get it, could you please contact me
(ac_at_metricmind.com) and let me know?
Thank you in advance!
BTW, will Zivan program their charger for Ovonics' for you
if you ask them?
Victor
Noel P. Luneau wrote:
> Hi Victor,
>
> When I contacted Zivan USA they said they have a charging profile for
> Ovonics. I'm hoping to have 15 of my 30 13.2v's in my Force.
>
> Solectria must have the charging profile as they used them in the
> Force for awhile. There is a document on the Internet when two
> Forces, EV15 and EVHQ were tested. No charging profiles but
> interesting reading.
>
> I'll let you know if I can get the charger and controller
> reprogrammed.
>
> Noel
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is cool and I suppose you can read off yopur Zivan what they
programmed in. But can they provide the same info just on the paper
(in electronic form is certainly OK too)?
Victor
Noel P. Luneau wrote:
Hi Victor,
Zivan said they would program a new one for me.
Noel
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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Actually it's all been pretty boring... it just works.
I have hours of run time on it, now. Now real issues. I just have to keep
adding features, and upping the wattage limits.
fun.. but time consuming.
Rich Rudman
Manzantia Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon Niessen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: happieness is 36,000 watts
> Do you have someone standing by the main breaker when you start that
> thing? And maybe a fire truck? It seems like you would want a
> safety crew, rather then a late night solo event.
>
> Looks like you could put that capstone turbine to work and be looking
> for move. You could really warm up Goldies lead with that
> too. Back-to-Back runs with a full charge. :-)
>
> Congratz
>
> At 10/3/2005 11:13 PM, you wrote:
> >Yea... a pile of Nichrome Glowing hot... I have to get some shots of
> >the shop at night with the 75K clocking at 1/2 snort.
> >
> >This is real close to 3 Bucks a hour of Grid power.
> >
> >The whole shop was jumping up about 1.5 Degrees a minute.
> >
> >Clearly the power stage is hanging in there.
> >
> >The power bench marks are falling one by one....
> >
> >Madman is having a good time in R&D....
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis wrote:
>
> Without a DC/DC converter, if you've got a charger for your 12V system, and
> a separate non-isolated charger for your High-Voltage system, and you're
> charging both at the same time, it seems like the ground for the 12V system
> and the ground for the High-Voltage system will be tied together, since both
> chargers are grounded to the chassis. Is there any problem with that setup?
Most non-isolated chargers do not ground their negative outputs; the
outputs are in fact "floating" well above ground!
The usual non-isolated charger is basically a bridge rectifier off the
AC line. On the half-cycle where the AC "hot" wire is positive, the
positive output of the bridge is essentially connected to AC "hot", and
the negative output of the bridge is essentially at ground potential. On
the half-cycle where the AC "hot" wire is negative, it's the positive
output of the bridge that is essentially at ground potential, and the
negative output of the bridge is essentially connected to AC "hot" (i.e.
a large negative voltage).
Thus you can't ground *either* side.
--
Every act of conscious learning requires the willingness to suffer an
injury to one's self-esteem. That is why young children, before they
are aware of their own self-importance, learn so easily. - Thomas Szasz
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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All,
Egads, my boy seems set on convertin an expensive forn car! He is currently
(pun intended) looking at a 1987 Porsche 911 Carrera Targa with a bad
engine (which unfortunately has already been removed). My boy's aunt is
involved with the Porsche Club of America and has suggested a 924/944/928
model, as they are a lot less expensive (and I like the hatchback models as
far as battery installation!). So, before my boy spends thousands of
dollars (and I spend hundred(s) of hours on another conversion), can anyone
that has done a Porsche comment on the 911 model, compared to Otmar's (
http://evcl.com/914/ 914 with a 930 Turbo transaxle and a limited slip
differential), or a 924/944/928 model. Of course, I'll also scan the EVDL
photo album to contact people that might not be on the list.
Update on RX-7 battery swap:
Now that the new Orbs have been broken in I'm off to the shop to try and
get the Zilla RPM sensor working in the RX-7. We want to turn up the juice
and see what these new batteries can do, compared to the old Optima's
(although they're currently cold soaked)! I wonder if Bill Dube' would take
the KillaCycle to Bandimere's before they close for the season?...
Thanks for your time,
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.org/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of Orbs for the teenagers)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
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It is called a "Kelvin" connection, a.k.a. the "4-wire resistance reading".
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_8/9.html
Danny
Cor van de Water wrote:
Another way to rig up a sensitive and quite accurate milli-ohm
meter is to use a constant-current limited lab supply,
capable of delivering a few volts at either 1 or 10 Amp constant.
Apply this to the object you want to measure, for example with
alligator clips and then switch your DVM (Digital Volt Meter)
to its most sensitive volts scale, usually somewhere between
2V and 200mV. Measure the voltage across the transition you
want to check WITHOUT touching the alligator clips that
supply the current (otherwise you measure the resistance that
the clips have, instead of your object)
THe theory behind this is that you send a constant current of
1 or 10A through an object that you want to measure the
resistance of.
In the case of the 1A current, every milli-ohm of resistance
will be represented in a milli-volt across.
If your lug and cable are solid copper and you want to measure
the resistance of your crimp, you clip the current loop to the
lug and cable, then measure the voltage between lug and cable
and when it reads no more than 2 mV you have a good crimp
with less than 2 mOhm resistance.
For the 10A test current, you will read 10 mV for every milli-
Ohm resistance, so the measurement is more sensitive.
NOTE that the resistance really affects performance, that is
why good traction batteries have less than 5 mOhm resistance.
For example during a good acceleration you may pull 400A
from the batteries. In case your crimps are good and 1 mOhm
each, with a good 12V battery adding 4 mOhm, you have 6 mOhm
times 400A is 2.4V drop, which means you lose 20% in sag.
(The 2.4V is divided in 1.6V for the battery and 0.4V per
connection)
If your connections would have 10 mOhm resistance then each
connection would drop 4 Volts during a 400A draw, almost
all your power would go to your connection resistance and
only 12 - 4 - 4 - 1.6 = 2.4V is left for the traction.
NOTE that you cannot measure the internal resistance of the
battery with the above method, as the battery generates a
current, so it will not allow a 1 or 10A to measure the
internal resistance, just to avoid costly mistakes....
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3673 eFAX: +31-84-717-9972
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 1:36 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Cable Crimping Tools
Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) wrote:
If you are testing a metal to metal connection and get resistance
that is not good. We use [a megger] to test static wics and other
conductors all the time in the military. You crank em up and make
sure that they are reading zero ohms.
The trouble is, a megger reads "0" ohms for anything below 1 ohm. So
does a standard multimeter. They can only tell you that a connection
exists; they can't tell you how good it is.
A high current connection needs to have a resistance less than a few
*thousandths* of an ohm! Suppose it needs to carry 100 amps; if it has
0.001 ohm of resistance, it produces P = I^2 x R = 100 x 100 x 0.001 =
10 watts of heat; it will get warm, but work. The voltage drop across
the connection will be V = I x R = 100 x 0.001 = 0.1 volts. This is a
"good" connection.
Now suppose it has 0.01 ohm of resistance; it produces 100 watts of
heat; as much as a 100 watt light bulb! Do this for more than a minute
and it will burn up! This connection also has a voltage drop of 1 volt;
it's wasting a significant fraction of your power!
You measure connection resistance with a MILLI-ohmmeter, not a megger.
(MEG-ohmmeter). It measures these sub-ohm resistances by running a
modestly high current thru them, and measuring the voltage drop with a
sensitive meter.
For hobby use, you can make one. Here is the circuit (view with a fixed
width font):
_____________________ ___________________
| || || | | |
_|_ 12v car || || | | < 10 ohm
/ \ headlight | \/ | | --->< pot
\___/ large | o| | | < (calibrate)
| alligator | /\ | | |
| clip |> <| | |
/ on/off |> <| | meter +_|_
+ | switch | 50mv / \
____|____ | full \___/
| | | scale - |
| 12v | |> <| _|_ |
| battery | |> <| _\_/_ |
| or | large | \/ | | D1 |
| charger | alligator | o| | | schottky |
|_________| clip | /\ | | diode |
| || || | |
- |____________________|| ||_______|__________|
The battery or battery charger provides the source of power. The car
headlight serves as a crude 4amp constant current limiter.
The two large alligator clips connect to the "resistance" to be
measured. They need to be large enough to handle 4 amps, and to clip
onto the size terminals you expect to test. For instance, clip one onto
the battery post itself, and the other to the terminal on that post to
measure the resistance between post and terminal.
The alligator clips need to be modified. Drill out the metal rivet that
holds the two halves together. Replace it with a plastic screw. Use
insulating washers between the metal halves so they do not touch.
Insulate the spring with pieces of wire insulation. Put it all back
together, and check with an ohmmeter to be SURE the two halves of the
clip are not shorted together.
The analog meter should be one that reads "full scale" with 0.1 volts or
less. Typically, any DC meter that reads 1 milliamp or less full-scale
will work, as will the 50mv full-scale meters normally used to measure
the voltage across a shunt, or even a general-purpose analog multimeter
with a current range that reads 1ma or less full-scale.
The schottky diode is there to protect the meter when the alliagator
clips are not connected to something. Its voltage rating is unimportant,
but it should be rated at 10 amps or more. For example, MBR1060 (60v,
10amps), Jameco #301444 $0.63 each.
To use it, clip the two alligator clips onto the connection to be
tested, THEN turn on the power switch. The left sides of the alligator
clips run about 4 amps thru the connection under test. The right sides
of the alligator clips measure the voltage across the connection at this
current. The higher the meter reading, the worse the connection.
To calibrate it, you need a known resistance. A shunt is a good choice
for a precision resistor. For instance, if you have a 50amp 50mv shunt,
its resistance is R = 0.05v / 50a = 0.001 ohm. Either mark the meter's
scale, or adjust the 10-ohm pot to a convenient number. For example, if
you used a meter that is 50 microamps full-scale, you could set the pot
so it reads 1 microamp; then microamps = milliohms (10ua = 10 milliohms
= 0.01 ohm, etc.)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If they have the profile then they can program it in to any of their chargers.
I have a Zivan NG1 in my GEM car, and it turns out the original charging
profile doesn't properly finish charge the pack. So I sent the charger to them
and they reprogrammed it for $35 plus $15 return shipping. I watched it pretty
closely and the pack actually gained over a whole volt after a few weeks with
the new profile so it's probably well worth it.
So the point, if they have the NiMH profile then you should be able to get it
put in to any Zivan charger. I would imagine it would be fairly simple to get
the profile off of one once this is done because it's just a three stage
charger. What is it? Constant current, then constant voltage, then finishing
charge. The chargers even will tell you when it's in the different stages of
charging if you have the indicator led. It starts blinking red durring the bulk
phase, then goes yellow for the second. I think all you'd have to figure out is
when it goes to the 3rd stage. The indicator just goes green when it's done.
As far as figuring out the profile you'd need amps and voltage information,
which is easy to do. Actually, I just got mine fixed (fuse holder melted, a
known issue with older NG1's) so I need to hack the profile out of it so we can
have an optimal profile for the Trojan 30XHS.
Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Noel,
It would be good if you can get this profile from them.
I'll ask too, but if you get it, could you please contact me
(ac_at_metricmind.com) and let me know?
Thank you in advance!
BTW, will Zivan program their charger for Ovonics' for you
if you ask them?
Victor
Noel P. Luneau wrote:
> Hi Victor,
>
> When I contacted Zivan USA they said they have a charging profile for
> Ovonics. I'm hoping to have 15 of my 30 13.2v's in my Force.
>
> Solectria must have the charging profile as they used them in the
> Force for awhile. There is a document on the Internet when two
> Forces, EV15 and EVHQ were tested. No charging profiles but
> interesting reading.
>
> I'll let you know if I can get the charger and controller
> reprogrammed.
>
> Noel
Later,
Ricky
02 Red Insight #559
92 Saturn SC2 EV conversion in progress
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John and All,
For all the newbies on the list, Lee posted about this years ago, only you
don't do it while driving, but while charging! I religiously check
interconnects after a battery swap/removal by simple turning on the charger
and measuring the interconnects with a mV meter. I keep a log of the
measurements for comparison during routine maintenance...
BB
>From: "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 09:52:14 +0100
>
>My guess is that if you rig up your millivoltmeter across any of your inter
>battery connections whilst your EV is accelerating it will show a small
>number of millivolts across the two ends of the interconnecting leads. If
>you also know the current being drawn then you can calculate the resistance
>of the suspect lead using ohms law.
<much snippage>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Way of checking for isolated output is it through its use of a transformer.
The AC power plug has neutral and active that's it. In terms of using these
chargers for equalization charge. Can they be left for a extended period of
time and then let the voltage increase slightly. The version I am looking at
is the Projecta MC400 manual battery charger. Please check it out on their
website.
www.projecta.com.au under products and manual battery chargers.
Hey this thing will cost me $13.99 Aussie dollars. If all fails, at least I
have 6 battery chargers to play around with. Not a big cost.
In relation to starter solenoids. It says 200A continuous but then yes,
breaking the current with the high voltage is an issue.
Cheers
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: 07 October 2005 02:57
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Separate 12volt chargers
Robert Chew wrote:
> I want to charge my 72 volt battery pack made up of SCS225 12 volt
> Trojans, with separate 12 volt chargers. Can anyone detail the
> wiring setup, is it like connecting each battery to each battery
> terminal while they are all connected in series. I am using a cheap
> 12 volt battery charger 4amp rms output.
To use individual chargers, wire each one directly across its associated
battery. Make *sure* the charger's outputs are isolated!
Be advised that a 4amp charger is pretty small. It's going to take more
than a day for a full recharge. That "4 amp" rating is probably the peak
current into a dead battery; it will almost immediately taper back to 2
amps or less.
Be sure to include some means to know that all chargers worked so that
all batteries are charged *before* you go for a drive. Individual
chargers (especially cheap ones!) tend to fail, the driver doesn't know
it, and so drives off with one dead battery. The dead one is quickly
destroyed!
> The expense is killing me.
Then I wouldn't use individual chargers! A single larger 72v series
charger would be a much better choice.
The cheap-yet-good route is probably to get a used 36v golf cart
charger, and either rewire your 72v pack for 36v while charging, or
rewire the charger from a center-tapped 2-diode rectifier to a 4-diode
bridge rectifier to double its voltage to 72v.
--
Every act of conscious learning requires the willingness to suffer an
injury to one's self-esteem. That is why young children, before they
are aware of their own self-importance, learn so easily. - Thomas Szasz
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,,
I bought a cheap battery isolator, looks like a big red key switch. Big
terminsla. Rated at 200A continuous and 500A surge. It is for 12 volt but I
wanted it to have it in series with my battery string so that I can pull the
plug if something goes wrong.
Cheers
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm in the process of converting a 1977 Porsche 911.
Here are some of my reasons:
Token rear seats.
Light, small, aerodynamic, big brakes, yet a good amount of room for
batteries.
RWD and rear weight bias will make for awesome launches.
Low center of gravity.
Fully adjustable suspension.
Good top speed for modest horsepower.
Race parts available for reasonable prices.
Enthusiast support groups.
Porsche started galvanizing about 1976 and 1/2, so 1977+ are much
more rust resistant. The 914's have a reputation for rust problems.
The 911 (and 914) tranny both have a good reputation for being tough.
Kit car guys hook V8 engines to them.
Beautiful and classic car that you can be proud of and get parts for
for 30 years.
Holds its value better than other Porsches (although converting to
electric would admittedly probably drop its value).
Good idea to convert a car you emotionally love.
You can remove alot of weight. The 2.7 engine is about 450 pounds!
Street legal special editions of older 911s were under 2000 lbs.
The motor is very expensive to rebuild, so that helps your bargaining
power a bit.
Most cars you worsen the weight distribution when converting (car
becomes more tail heavy). In this case you'd probably make the car
less tail heavy.
Now for some downsides:
911 is expensive. I feel I got a real steal on mine at $4200 (very
good condition body and interior, complete, but not running). I saw a
couple of horribly rusted out older ones for that much. I have seen a
car on the web with no engine, no tranny, no doors, and they still
were asking $8k!
RWD and rear weight bias makes for less safe street handling.
More expensive insurance.
I'm tall, and the car is a little smaller than ideal for me. Putting
in race seats will fix that problem.
With the Targa, I'd suggest welding in a roll cage to help strengthen
the car against the additional battery weight. This is a reason I
went with a hard top.
Random thoughts:
You should consider looking at 912's, they are much cheaper, yet the
same as a 911 except for fewer gauges and the motor. Watch for rust.
I think the best 911 to get is the 1977+ 911 with the 2.7 motor --
these were still fairly light, and the 2.7 motor is known for some
problems, so the cars aren't as popular and cost less.
--- "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> All,
> Egads, my boy seems set on convertin an expensive forn car! He is
> currently
> (pun intended) looking at a 1987 Porsche 911 Carrera Targa with a
> bad
> engine (which unfortunately has already been removed). My boy's
> aunt is
> involved with the Porsche Club of America and has suggested a
> 924/944/928
> model, as they are a lot less expensive (and I like the hatchback
> models as
> far as battery installation!). So, before my boy spends thousands
> of
> dollars (and I spend hundred(s) of hours on another conversion),
> can anyone
> that has done a Porsche comment on the 911 model, compared to
> Otmar's (
> http://evcl.com/914/ 914 with a 930 Turbo transaxle and a limited
> slip
> differential), or a 924/944/928 model. Of course, I'll also scan
> the EVDL
> photo album to contact people that might not be on the list.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 06:46 AM 7/10/05 +1000, Robert Chew wrote:
Hi all,,
I bought a cheap battery isolator, looks like a big red key switch. Big
terminsls. Rated at 200A continuous and 500A surge. It is for 12 volt but I
wanted it to have it in series with my battery string so that I can pull the
plug if something goes wrong.
So when you are down to your last chance and have to hit the big red
button, you bash it and hear an arcing noise and don't slow down any.....
If it is rated for 12V, build a 12V EV. if you are building a 120V EV, use
120V parts.
Using 12V parts on higher voltages is like using a piece of string as a
seatbelt or an empty coke bottle as a life preserver. May sort of work, but
when you need it to do the job you put it there for, it ...well - does the
job as it is designed!
Please make a safe EV, for the rest of us it's bad PR and depressing for
your next of kin if you don't.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok how do you modify it?
--- Philippe Borges <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> my solution a cheap 2 tons (4500lbs) car lifting
> jack, after simple
> modification, make the best quality/price hydraulic
> crimper :^)
>
>
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=36119
>
> cordialement,
> Philippe
>
> Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du
> volant ?
> quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
> Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 7:36 PM
> Subject: Re: Cable Crimping Tools
>
>
> > On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 08:26:34 -0700, Eric Poulsen
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Well, my theory is that the acetylene is so much
> hotter than the
> > >propane, you spend less time spreading heat where
> you don't need it.
> > >But I'm probably waaaay off.
> >
> > True. But the major problem I have with an
> acetylene torch is if I'm
> > not paying close attention, it is trivially easy
> to melt or burn a
> > spot on the lug. A lower intensity torch makes
> the paying attention
> > part much less critical :-)
> > >
> > >Has anyone tried using one of those
> anti-wire-wicking things that clamp
> > >around the wire? Essentially a heat sink with a
> wire-sized hole in it
> ...
> >
> > Yes, works but a wet rag twisted tightly around
> the cable works at
> > least as well and costs nothing.
> >
> > >
> > >David Roden wrote:
> > >
> > >>On 4 Oct 2005 at 7:48, Eric Poulsen wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>I think an
> > >>>oxy/acet torch would work well, with a small
> tip.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>I've done this with so-so success using a
> propane torch. It's the
> dickens
> > >>to avoid wicking solder up the wire.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > >>EV List Assistant Administrator
> > >>
> > >>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> = = = = = = = = =
> > >>Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while
> you're on vacation,
> > >>or switch to digest mode? See how:
> http://www.evdl.org/help/
> > >>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> = = = = = = = = =
> > >>Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may
> not reach me. To
> > >>send me a private message, please use evdl at
> drmm period net.
> > >>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> = = = = = = = = =
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > ---
> > John De Armond
> > See my website for my current email address
> > http://www.johngsbbq.com
> > Cleveland, Occupied TN
> >
>
>
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, Oct 05, 2005 at 07:15:13PM -0600, Tim Humphrey wrote:
> I snapped some pics last night of the battery that I had explode.
>
> It blew up a couple years ago, so the pic makes it seem in a lot worse shape
> (older) than it was at the time. It actually was only a year old when it blew.
>
> It is at
>
> http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev/lst?&.dir=/exploded+battery
>
> http://tinyurl.com/cp3as
>
>
> Stay Charged!
>
> Hump
I get the following when attempting to view this image:
Error
GROUP_CHECK
gpg5.bc.scd.yahoo.com:GROUP_CHECK
Fortunately, they did manage to serve a full screen advertisement with this
error message :)
--- End Message ---
