EV Digest 4808
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Battery heaters for racing?
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Regen Theory on SepEx
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Batteries Weeping
by Nawaz Qureshi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Bracket Racing White Zombie to a 12.151 @ 106.25 mph World Record!
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: 180 V Circuit Breaker
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: 180 V Circuit Breaker
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Weeping battery tops/Floodies
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) EM kit proposal (long)
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Orbital/Optima/Intimidator dimensions
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) electric pickup
by "Rich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Regen Theory on SepEx
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Newby question about battery arrangement
by kluge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Regen Theory on SepEx
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Orbital/Optima/Intimidator dimensions
by "Matthew D. Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: electric pickup
by "Robert Stalnaker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: electric pickup
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: electric pickup
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Newby question about battery arrangement
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) "ZERO" Electric Mower website back up
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Re: Any life in old forklift nicads?
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Tidalforce electric light division shut down
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Batteries Weeping
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Advanced DC FB1-4001A 19HP Electric Motor on E-Bay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
24) DC to DC
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Orbital/Optima/Intimidator dimensions
by Ben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Ovonic NiMH battery is available
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Suggestions on new Force
by "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: s-10 value
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Vacation tip: Always stay somewhere with an internet connection. After
returning from a week off last labor day, I was so far behind on reading the
list that I've just now caught up....
And the top news of the day? An electric door-slammer is threatening to
break into the 11's!
Wow.
Big congratulations to John Wayland and everyone involved with his effort.
You guys are putting on quite a show.
One thing I've noticed in the descriptions of these events is that the fast
times only come at the end of the night. The reason usually given is that
the batteries need to warm up. Is that true?
I mean, wouldn't it be a huge advantage to be able to spend the whole night
at the track knowing your batteries would perform consistently from run to
run? Battery heaters are pretty available, low cost, light weight, some are
pretty thin (so as not to mess up an existing rack setup) and can even be
tightly controlled with some off-the-shelf hardware.
Or do the batteries gain enough heat on each run that they won't cool
between runs? Even that seems like a manageable problem.
Maybe temperature management would offer enough gains to warrant some
effort? Or not?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I've always used/built series chopper controls and battery chargers in the past
so this regen to zero operation on my Curtis SepEx 72V Bombardier control is a
bit fuzzy. So I need some help in understanding what's going on.
I put the ARM and FIELD on an O'scope and accelerated with the acel pot peddle
and decelerated with the regen pot brake peddle looking at the waveforms. I
also have a +- current meter on the battery pack to see load and regen mode.
The armature PWM's at 20kHz to the throttle demand as expected. On accel, the
field is PWM's with the arm increasing duty cycle on the arm and decreasing
duty cycle on the field as speed increases, somewhat as expected but the field
*never* gets more than 50% at start. The field *does not* reverse during regen
and slowing down *but* the PWM increases near zero speed from about 20% on-time
duty cycle to 50% duty cycle when regen to 0 speed. The arm *decreases* pwm
while the field *increases* pwm on time during regen as the speed decreases.
The field pwm *never* hits 100% on time though and does not reverse during
regen (only when reversing vehicle direction of course).
So from Lee's example of Arm Voltage = K x FieldCurrent x Speed: The motor is
probably wound with excessive field turns in order to boost the voltage over
the 72V battery pack while slowing down. I can't figure out though how it's
boosting the voltage over 72V to charge the battery when the motor is slowing
down to a stop, say running a 5mph equivelent 12V operation. The schematic
appears to be just a chopper main fet and diode clamp around the arm and an
H-bridge for the field (for fwd & rev) How does regen work without a boost
converter?
Thanks, Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Make sure the batteries are watered after charging and never before. Also the
correct level is 1/4" below the bottom edge of the fill well.
Sincerely
Nawaz Qureshi
Bob Bath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Guys, I've been charging my USB 8VGCHC just like I'm
supposed to, and I have electrolyte dripping out of a
couple of caps here & there. Unfortunately, the worst
culprits are right above my adapter plate and motor!
Obvious solution is to swap a battery there for one
that isn't weeping. But what does it mean? They're a
year old/3K miles on them!
If you are sure the electrolyte level is correct, then try swapping cell
caps with some cells that aren't leaking, and that wouldn't be as
objectionable if they leak after the cell cap swap. Much easier to swap
cell caps than entire batteries!
I would expect that the cells that are leaking may be doing so simply
because their caps aren't sealing as well as they could, or perhaps
because those cells are becoming full a bit before the others and so are
gassing a bit longer and/or a bit more vigorously.
Cheers,
Roger.
begin:vcard
fn:Nawaz Qureshi
n:Qureshi;Nawaz
org:U. S. Battery Manufacturing Company
adr;dom:;;1675 Sampson Avenue;Corona;CA;92879
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
title:Vice - President of Engineering
tel;work:951-371-8090
tel;fax:951-371-4671
url:http://www.usbattery.com
version:2.1
end:vcard
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Restraint??
I would make that step up to 2000 amps in 50 amp steps.
As you may recall the compounding of torque at 1800 to 2000 amps is pretty
steep. You want to sneak up on the power while holding your launches
perfect.
Restraint has gotten you farther than any other trick you've tried
....keep it up and you will find even more out there.
We need a data collection from the Zilla on one of your 105 MPH runs. It's
getting harder to find... wasted time.
Rich Rudman
Madman
John Wayland wrote:
> .
> For some unexplained reason, I've shown considerable restraint in the
> way I've guided this car along its journey into and through the 12s
> (man, that sounds good), and it seems to be working well. Along with all
> of the effort from Tim as well, we've got a good combination between us.
> I will continue with this plan and not change too many things too
> drastically or prematurely, so the only two mods for this weekend's runs
> will be the redesigned traction bars and a change to the full 2000 amps
> in series mode (only if there's enough traction on the track)...that
> 1100 battery amp thing will have to wait.
>
> Se Ya..,,John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
> http://www.plasmaboyracing.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rush wrote:
> I need a circuit breaker for my 180 V system... I've been searching,
> but the best I can find is the Heinemann breaker rated at 160 vdc max.
> Can I use it or should I just build myself a pull to disconnect knife
> type switch?
180v is close enough to 160v that it will work ok. If there really is a
high-current fault, the batteries will be under a heavy load and their
voltage will sag under 160v anyway. If it is a low-current fault, the
breaker wouldn't trip anyway, and manually flipping it off won't hurt
it.
--
"One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the
shore for a very long time." -- Andre Gide
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jimmy Argon wrote:
> This is one of those parts I can't afford, and build better ones
> myself. I attached photos of a switch that can handle hundreds of
> volts and amps...
This is one of the rare times when having attached files on the EV list
has been good.
Jimmy, I like it! Simple, straightforward, and likely to safely break
very high voltages and currents. I wouldn't want my bare hand near it
when it breaks 100amps at 300vdc! But I would imagine you can surround
it with some kind of guard to prevent burns or setting something too
close on fire.
Is there a spring to assure that once you start to open it, it will flip
all the way open by itself? It would be bad to have the lever move or
vibrate back enough to relieve the contact pressure and create a small
gap, but not to continue moving the contacts apart all the way.
--
"One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the
shore for a very long time." -- Andre Gide
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
. Unfortunately, the worst
culprits are right above my adapter plate and motor!
Obvious solution is to swap a battery there for one
that isn't weeping. But what does it mean? They're a
year old/3K miles on them!
3k is not alot of miles ... I had this happen one time where the acid
dripped on the motor com .....not good
if I where putting batteries over the motor I would put somthing so any
dripping would not get to the motor. ..
steve clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
My upgrade of a Lectric Leopard to 120 V has been stalled for Way Too Long.
Too much going on at home. But I can't turn my head off, so I've come up
with several schemes to make an EV of some sort commercially available. All
are promising in their own ways, but the most recent appears to be both
technically viable *and* doable on a small, part-time scale. I've played
with it some while getting up to speed with a new CAD package at work, and
it keeps looking better the more detailed it gets. Good enough that I want
to know if I should try to make a go of this.
A while back I was playing with the idea of a conversion kit for a Kawasaki
EX500. It looked good, but I came to realize it would be much easier and
more effective to start from scratch. I've hit upon a way to fit eight
Orbitals or Optimas nicely into a fairly light and stiff custom frame. The
motor and controller would be in the middle of the battery pack, so the
overall cg placement should be very similar to an ICE motorcycle. This is
all in a very maneuverable 56" wheelbase, much like a 600cc sport bike,
though the seating position will be much more traffic-friendly.
It could be run at 48 V, 72 V, 48 V long range (eight batteries) or 96 V.
It can use a Curtis, Alltrax or Zilla controller, including a Z2k if you're
so inclined. Any rear tire up to a 185 literbike gumball can be fitted,
perhaps bigger if you wanted to convert to a slick/extended-hardtail rear
end for drag racing (should be an easy bolt-on swap). Or you can fit
smaller wheels and tires if you want - the engine mount plate can be
adjusted laterally to facilitate lining the sprockets up.
If there was any interest in gung-ho drag racing, I might be able to make 16
Hawker G26EPs a viable battery option without too much effort. Hmmm, I
wonder if I should look at Kokam's site before setting anything in stone.
Anyone venture a guess at a Kokam battery suitable for a street or racing
EM?
So far I've concentrated on an ADC A00 motor. For racers who don't mind
moving the controller elsewhere, there's room for twin ADC 5.5s or even
6.7s. Yow.
I know the Etek is popular, but this EM will have no transmission so low end
torque is important. An Etek would likely be kinda wimpy. Eteks are also a
little bigger in diameter than the current design can accommodate. If
there's interest, an Etek version might be doable (but probably not with an
8-battery pack).
I'm thinking total weight for an eight-Orbital-Z1k street fighter will be
right around 600 lbs. A bit porky in the world of ICE motorcycles, but not
bad for an EM considering the mass concentration and CG location. It should
be fully highway capable and feel and steer more like an ICE in the
low-to-mid 500 lbs. range. A four-Orbital-Etek-Alltrax commuter would be
maybe 450 lbs. and top out at maybe 50-60 mph. (In other words, city
streets only.)
That gives a battery/total weight ratio of ~50% for the street fighter, ~33%
for the commuter. The rider is a significant adder, and MC aerodynamics
typically stink, so I'm guessing maybe 25-30 miles of usable mixed
street/highway riding with eight batteries and 12-18 for the
four-Orbital-Etek version. (This version is not really suited for highway
use, so range shouldn't take as much of a hit from the reduced amount of
lead on board.) Rules of thumb probably don't apply here, so these are just
guesses. Do they sound close?
So far I've concentrated only on the hardware side, but the logical next
step is some swoopy, very aero bodywork. Both to set this apart as an EM
and to dramatically improve range at higher speeds.
If you're still with me, price is probably the next question. Assuming all
new EV parts, typical prices for wheels/brakes/incidentals on eBay and list
prices for some of the MC-type stuff, the eight-Orbital street fighter might
be completed for around $7500, the four-Orbital-Etek commuter for $4800.
This is in line with most kit cars - the parts cost as much as a new
vehicle, but you put in your own build effort to get something different.
Scroungers can probably lower those figures substantially. Bodywork is
separate, maybe $500 - $700 complete but unpainted.
I would provide the chassis that holds it all together, parts lists and a
basic manual. If enough are interested in this I might be able to become a
reseller of some of the non-chassis parts and thereby lower the cost
somewhat.
So here's the big question - would you buy one? I simply can't do this
solely for my own use. If there's not a market, it won't get done. Please
think about this and then reply to me off-list. Note that I don't care how
you configure it - the chassis is the same for all versions. Let me know if
you fall into one of the following categories:
1. [pant, pant, pant] I want it NOW! Here - take my money! Is it done
yet?
2. What a great idea. When you have something that's proven and ready for
sale, I will have money available and a desire to buy. Will the product
measure up?
3. Sounds very tempting, but I'm not convinced yet. Let me see your CAD
models first, then I'll let you know if I'd put my money down.
Operators are standing by ...
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In my previous post I described my EM concept. Since the chassis is also a
battery rack, it's pretty important to get my dimensions right. Thanks to a
much-copied post from John Wayland I have most of the dimensions I need for
the Orbitals. I can go to a local Auto Zone and measure an Optima, but no
one nearby carries Orbitals.
What I need to know is the exact location of the main posts on the Orbital.
In pictures they seem pretty close to the short edge and pretty close to the
center of that edge. Can anyone give me a distance from the post centerline
to both the long and short edges? Is there a raised surface above the
battery top around the ~3/4" post (like a post seal flange)? (Basically I
need to know what size angle steel I can use on that edge without crowding
the post.) If I could also get the same info for an Optima, it would save
me a trip. (In fact, the locations of the smaller terminals on the marine
version would be a big help too.)
Also, the Deka Intimidator is supposed to be the same group 34, but the
length is listed in their literature as 10.75". That's a full 3/4" longer
than an Optima or Orbital. (How can they call it a group 34?) I was hoping
to accommodate as many batteries as possible, but a 3/4" difference is a
lot. Can anyone verify this?
TIA,
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gov auction fort benning ga. electric pickup
http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=694396&convertTo=USD
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mark,
Here is a WEB site that shows speed control circuits, in many different
configurations and the theory of operation:
http://homepages.which.net/-paul.hills/SpeedControl/SpeedController.html<http://homepages.which.net/-paul.hills/SpeedControl/SpeedController.html>
It is 25 pages long if you print it out.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Hanson<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 9:02 AM
Subject: Regen Theory on SepEx
Hi,
I've always used/built series chopper controls and battery chargers in the
past so this regen to zero operation on my Curtis SepEx 72V Bombardier control
is a bit fuzzy. So I need some help in understanding what's going on.
I put the ARM and FIELD on an O'scope and accelerated with the acel pot
peddle and decelerated with the regen pot brake peddle looking at the
waveforms. I also have a +- current meter on the battery pack to see load and
regen mode.
The armature PWM's at 20kHz to the throttle demand as expected. On accel,
the field is PWM's with the arm increasing duty cycle on the arm and decreasing
duty cycle on the field as speed increases, somewhat as expected but the field
*never* gets more than 50% at start. The field *does not* reverse during regen
and slowing down *but* the PWM increases near zero speed from about 20% on-time
duty cycle to 50% duty cycle when regen to 0 speed. The arm *decreases* pwm
while the field *increases* pwm on time during regen as the speed decreases.
The field pwm *never* hits 100% on time though and does not reverse during
regen (only when reversing vehicle direction of course).
So from Lee's example of Arm Voltage = K x FieldCurrent x Speed: The motor
is probably wound with excessive field turns in order to boost the voltage over
the 72V battery pack while slowing down. I can't figure out though how it's
boosting the voltage over 72V to charge the battery when the motor is slowing
down to a stop, say running a 5mph equivelent 12V operation. The schematic
appears to be just a chopper main fet and diode clamp around the arm and an
H-bridge for the field (for fwd & rev) How does regen work without a boost
converter?
Thanks, Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Okay - another newby question, this time about battery placement. I'm just
putting the batteries in a plywood box in the bed of my pickup, so
I have a lot of flexibility with regard to the way I arrange them. My first
question is, is it better to stagger the batteries so that the + and -
terminals are closer to each other, and make the connections side to side?
Like this:
[+ -]
]
[- +]
[
[+ -]
]
[- +]
Or is it better to line them up like this, and put diagonal connectors between
the batteries?
[+ -]
____/
/
[+ -]
____/
/
[+ -]
____/
/
[+ -]
A complication is that these batteries have their posts pretty close to one
edge, like this:
__________________
| |
| |
| |
|_+____________--__|
I know that Roland Wiench has expressed some opinions on this subject. If it
makes a difference, these are AGM's.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Try this link,
http://homepages.which.net/~paul.hills/SpeedControl/SpeedControllersBody.html
Rod
--- Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello Mark,
>
> Here is a WEB site that shows speed control
> circuits, in many different configurations and the
> theory of operation:
>
>
http://homepages.which.net/-paul.hills/SpeedControl/SpeedController.html<http://homepages.which.net/-paul.hills/SpeedControl/SpeedController.html>
>
> It is 25 pages long if you print it out.
>
> Roland
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mark Hanson<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To:
> ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 9:02 AM
> Subject: Regen Theory on SepEx
>
>
> Hi,
> I've always used/built series chopper controls and
> battery chargers in the past so this regen to zero
> operation on my Curtis SepEx 72V Bombardier control
> is a bit fuzzy. So I need some help in
> understanding what's going on.
>
> I put the ARM and FIELD on an O'scope and
> accelerated with the acel pot peddle and decelerated
> with the regen pot brake peddle looking at the
> waveforms. I also have a +- current meter on the
> battery pack to see load and regen mode.
>
> The armature PWM's at 20kHz to the throttle demand
> as expected. On accel, the field is PWM's with the
> arm increasing duty cycle on the arm and decreasing
> duty cycle on the field as speed increases, somewhat
> as expected but the field *never* gets more than 50%
> at start. The field *does not* reverse during regen
> and slowing down *but* the PWM increases near zero
> speed from about 20% on-time duty cycle to 50% duty
> cycle when regen to 0 speed. The arm *decreases*
> pwm while the field *increases* pwm on time during
> regen as the speed decreases. The field pwm *never*
> hits 100% on time though and does not reverse during
> regen (only when reversing vehicle direction of
> course).
>
> So from Lee's example of Arm Voltage = K x
> FieldCurrent x Speed: The motor is probably wound
> with excessive field turns in order to boost the
> voltage over the 72V battery pack while slowing
> down. I can't figure out though how it's boosting
> the voltage over 72V to charge the battery when the
> motor is slowing down to a stop, say running a 5mph
> equivelent 12V operation. The schematic appears to
> be just a chopper main fet and diode clamp around
> the arm and an H-bridge for the field (for fwd &
> rev) How does regen work without a boost converter?
>
> Thanks, Mark
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris,
If you're thinking of using angle steel along the top edge of the Orbitals
to hold down the battery, I don't see how that's going to work. I don't have
a battery here at work to measure, but in my car, the battery posts are so
close between adjoining batteries that the automotive-style post connections
nearly touch each other. (I use 1/8" plexiglass between rows of batteries in
order to keep the post connections from touching) Technically, you could use
maybe 1/2" angle steel and not touch the post. However, when you go to
attach the connections to the posts, they'll all be sitting directly on the
steel, turning it into a nice bus bar.
Also, on the ORB34DC, the posts are along the short edge, but at the
corners. It's the stud connections that are in the center of the short
edges.
This post arrangement has been a point of frustration for several of us that
are using Orbitals (right, Steve?) For holding down the Orbitals, some
options are to use two all-thread connectors down the center of the battery
(like most of us have done), one or two bars across the short dimension of
the battery top, or utilize the existing hold-down feet on the bottom.
Sorry no dimensions on the post and stud locations, but I can give them to
you tomorrow if no one else has piped up.
Matt Graham
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Tromley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 2:31 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Orbital/Optima/Intimidator dimensions
In my previous post I described my EM concept. Since the chassis is also a
battery rack, it's pretty important to get my dimensions right. Thanks to a
much-copied post from John Wayland I have most of the dimensions I need for
the Orbitals. I can go to a local Auto Zone and measure an Optima, but no
one nearby carries Orbitals.
What I need to know is the exact location of the main posts on the Orbital.
In pictures they seem pretty close to the short edge and pretty close to the
center of that edge. Can anyone give me a distance from the post centerline
to both the long and short edges? Is there a raised surface above the
battery top around the ~3/4" post (like a post seal flange)? (Basically I
need to know what size angle steel I can use on that edge without crowding
the post.) If I could also get the same info for an Optima, it would save
me a trip. (In fact, the locations of the smaller terminals on the marine
version would be a big help too.)
Also, the Deka Intimidator is supposed to be the same group 34, but the
length is listed in their literature as 10.75". That's a full 3/4" longer
than an Optima or Orbital. (How can they call it a group 34?) I was hoping
to accommodate as many batteries as possible, but a 3/4" difference is a
lot. Can anyone verify this?
TIA,
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
HMMMMMM...interesting....Hybrid? Diesel Generator?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Rich
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 10:50 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: electric pickup
Gov auction fort benning ga. electric pickup
http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=694396&convertTo=USD
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The heater on the S-10E's is diesel fired. You could supposedly use heat for
most of a winter with just a gallon or two of diesel.
Robert Stalnaker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:HMMMMMM...interesting....Hybrid?
Diesel Generator?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Rich
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 10:50 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: electric pickup
Gov auction fort benning ga. electric pickup
http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=694396&convertTo=USD
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you plan to bid, be aware that this auction has a 15 minute rule. Which
means that if in the last 15 min before the auction closes, somebody bids, then
the auction close time is extended (by 15 min if I remember correctly) and so
forth till nobody bids for 15 minutes.
So there is no sniping as in Ebay. It is more like a live auction in that
manner.
> Gov auction fort benning ga. electric pickup
>
> http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=694396&convertTo=USD
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You could go diagonal where the cable links would be all the same length which
would be about 6 inches per link and a 4 inch link to connected each roll
together.
Or you could connected the batteries end to end where the all the lengths would
be about 4 inches and a 12 inch link to connected each roll together.
The total overall cable length that is the shorter, is the best.
The battery terminals being on one side and batteries the pos and neg
alternating, one link would be long which would be about 12 inches long and the
other will be very short as where the post terminals connections could touch
each other, leaving no cable link where the over all length would be about 2
inches.
I had my first set of batteries which were Exides that had long offset battery
post where connected in what is call a straight line connection, which the pos
and neg alternating. All the cable links are the same. If the battery is 7
inches wide, than the cable links would be 7 inches long.
I now have Trojan T-145's which the post offset is short where I could not
connect in a straight line connection. The fill neck and caps are in the way.
So I had to go diagonal which the lines were 1 inch shorter or 6 inches long.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: kluge<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 1:00 PM
Subject: Newby question about battery arrangement
Okay - another newby question, this time about battery placement. I'm just
putting the batteries in a plywood box in the bed of my pickup, so
I have a lot of flexibility with regard to the way I arrange them. My first
question is, is it better to stagger the batteries so that the + and -
terminals are closer to each other, and make the connections side to side?
Like this:
[+ -]
]
[- +]
[
[+ -]
]
[- +]
Or is it better to line them up like this, and put diagonal connectors
between the batteries?
[+ -]
____/
/
[+ -]
____/
/
[+ -]
____/
/
[+ -]
A complication is that these batteries have their posts pretty close to one
edge, like this:
__________________
| |
| |
| |
|_+____________--__|
I know that Roland Wiench has expressed some opinions on this subject. If it
makes a difference, these are AGM's.
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--- Begin Message ---
To everyone who tried to reach our website yesterday and today and were
unsuccessful,
Sorry about it being down for so long. We got hit pretty hard after some good
local press and it crashed.
It's back up if anyone is interested www.zeromow.com
Shawn Lawless
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Please tell me where you discard them - I'd like to raid your dumpster! Every flooded
nicad I know of will maintain 80% or more of its specified capacity for between 1500 and
3000 cycles.
Dear goodness, yes. BB600's make *excellent* batteries in Elec-traks; I
know a number of people who would like to hit your dumpster for $1.00 a
battery. And for whatever reason, they seem to parallel rather well (not
perfectly)
In nickel based batteries, the electrolyte serves only as an ion carrier. It doesn't take part
in the charge / discharge reaction, so I don't see any mechanism for a change in the SG
with SOC. Of course - as I say - I'm not an electrochemist. Perhaps someone familiar
with electrochemistry can enlighten me on this.
Correct. According to the BB600 manuals, the SG of the electrolyte does
not change a reliable amount during charge/discharge. The amount of
water in the battery vs. plates does, thus you only add water 30 minutes
to 90 minutes after a full charge.
The nominal voltage of a nicad is 1.2 to 1.25 volts per cell. The above apparently refers to
the on charge voltage, and is pretty close to what I'm familiar with. Saft says that when
voltage gets to this point you stop the bulk charge and begin what they call "overcharge"
(finish stage).
Hm. I think different NiCDs have different thresholds. I've been
charging the BB600's to 1.5 volts per cell in the Elec-trak, and
according to the E-Meters (two of them for two strings, 90% CEF, no
perkeurt comp) they come out at around .5 to 1ah positive when fully
charged to 45 volts (1.5vpc)
Several people familiar with Saft nicads have told me that I should consider the cell caps
to be fixed in place, that removing them is usually the first step in destroying the
monoblock! If the electrolyte is polluted with H2SO4 (for example, if a contaminated
watering system is used) the blocks are best returned to the manufacturer for servicing.
*nod* I try not to open mine unless I really need to add water. And
before putting them in the E20 I completely washed out the battery box,
washed it with baking soda, and washed it again. Then POR15'ed the thing
for good measure.
I'm very surprised at the significant differences between Saft's EV nicad
recommendations and what Roland describes for aircraft nicads. Can anyone offer any
thoughts of why the aircraft batteries he's describing would require such different
treatment from EV nicads?
I'm not sure why, but there do seem to be differences between the STM
monoblocks (oh how I would want them) and the BB600 class aircraft
batteries. If I try to charge these batteries up to 1.65vpc, I will
simply wind up with a battery that is happily gassing at 1.5vpc all day
long and sucking the amps with nothing to show for it.
Rule seems to be charge what you discharge, with a 90% CEF.
I wonder too what maintenance regimen is are appropriate for the aircraft nicads that
some on this list are using for EVs.
There are govt spec documents for the SAFT bb600 class batteries; so far
it's basically add water when low and charge the things up. I'm building
a lee hart monitor circuit of a 1.0 volt optoisolator per battery strung
to an idiot LED for monitoring the pack. When one battery dips early (I
also have the E-meters) it will light and let me know it's time to check
water levels. When NiCDs hit 1.0vpc, they fall like rocks in terms of
voltage.
That, don't let them overheat on charge, and store them discharged.
Chris
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--- Begin Message ---
Just got off the phone with WaveCrest discussing what is happening with
their light electric division which manufacturers the TidalForce ebike.
They are shutting down the division and have notified dealers of this
via a letter. Reasons are sketchy at this time and no official word is
yet released from the company.
I guess they recently did a deal with Matra in France and that company
might be continuing with production, though this is still unclear and
speculative.
I asked if the company as a whole is shutting down and was given a
strong "no comment" both on and off the record. It sounded like things
are sketchy and employees might not have much data at this time either.
I made some inquires about the remaining stock availability (for current
owners getting repair parts), about the possibility of getting access to
the proprietary programming of the controller, and about the possibility
of licensing this technology for other commercial products.
I will post what I find out.
If anyone on this list is a dealer who received the notice, can you
please post the specifics that were covered in that letter. All we have
so far is the confirmation that WaveCrest has shut down the TidalForce
division. Thanks.
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM/YM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, only after charging.
Yes, filled with a battery filling jug with that
special nozzle.
My best responses so far are that the 8VGCHC are most
spill prone due to the extra active material, and also
that the quick tops don't do as good a job as the
single cell tops.
Thanks for trying to help, though...
--- Nawaz Qureshi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Make sure the batteries are watered after charging
> and never before. Also the correct level is 1/4"
> below the bottom edge of the fill well.
>
> Sincerely
>
> Nawaz Qureshi
>
>
>
>
>
> Bob Bath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>
> >> Guys, I've been charging my USB 8VGCHC just like
> I'm
> >> supposed to, and I have electrolyte dripping out
> of a
> >> couple of caps here & there. Unfortunately, the
> worst
> >> culprits are right above my adapter plate and
> motor!
> >> Obvious solution is to swap a battery there
> for one
> >> that isn't weeping. But what does it mean?
> They're a
> >> year old/3K miles on them!
> >
> >
>
> If you are sure the electrolyte level is correct,
> then try swapping cell
> caps with some cells that aren't leaking, and that
> wouldn't be as
> objectionable if they leak after the cell cap swap.
> Much easier to swap
> cell caps than entire batteries!
>
> I would expect that the cells that are leaking may
> be doing so simply
> because their caps aren't sealing as well as they
> could, or perhaps
> because those cells are becoming full a bit before
> the others and so are
> gassing a bit longer and/or a bit more vigorously.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
> > begin:vcard
> fn:Nawaz Qureshi
> n:Qureshi;Nawaz
> org:U. S. Battery Manufacturing Company
> adr;dom:;;1675 Sampson Avenue;Corona;CA;92879
> email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> title:Vice - President of Engineering
> tel;work:951-371-8090
> tel;fax:951-371-4671
> url:http://www.usbattery.com
> version:2.1
> end:vcard
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Yahoo! Music Unlimited
Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just FYI. If you search on the above description, you will find the motor.
It ends tomorrow night about this time. Current price is only $455. I hope
someone gets it and puts it to good use.
Steve
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello everybody:
I am looking for a nice (= powerful) DC-to-DC solution for input voltages
between 120 V and 156 V, output >200w
What would the list suggest?
mm.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
on 10/10/05 2:30 PM, Chris Tromley at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have some Deka Intimidators on hand. The length is 10.25 if you remove
(cut away) the handle mechanism
>
> Also, the Deka Intimidator is supposed to be the same group 34, but the
> length is listed in their literature as 10.75". That's a full 3/4" longer
> than an Optima or Orbital. (How can they call it a group 34?) I was hoping
> to accommodate as many batteries as possible, but a 3/4" difference is a
> lot. Can anyone verify this?
>
> TIA,
> Chris
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
If anyone would like to get these Ovonic's 85Ah NiMH batteries,
I'll have some available. I have to pick them up from out of state,
so to avoid many trips I want to get in as many as people will
need at once. The price is $170 each, pulled from the stock for
GM's S10 and EV1 gen II fleet - Ovonic happen to have made many
more battery packs than fleet vehicles intended to use them.
Most of the batteries are brand new, but some were installed
in S10 trucks, in which case got <10k miles on them.
There is no detectable performance difference between these
and never used ones. Quantity is limited.
13.2V nom, 11 cells; 15-1/2 L x 7-3/4 H x 3-7/8 W, 38 lb each.
Few photos:
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/nimh1.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/nimh2.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/nimh3.jpg
Anyone interested please contact me off list. It will take some
time to get them and initially cycle them.
Victor
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey guys,
My 1997 Force is going to be delivered soon!
Mine has an A/C problem with only 11,000 Miles. Anyone on the list have
A/C problems and found the cause? It is also coming with an Avcon
ICS200. Does that have to be hardwired to a new circuit. Any
suggestions on how many Amps the circuit should be? It also has a
BC3300/NLG4 3.3KW unit with an extra plug in the trunk.
Thanks,
Noel L
1997 Force (Awaiting Delivery)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The 100 mile range might be a bit optimistic. More like 70 on a good
straight run. Less if stops, bad weather, etc.
Ricky Suiter wrote:
There were two battery options. If it's a 97 it's likely got the lead acid pack in it, which was really good for lead, but let it go dead and it's gone like most others. If it's a 98 it possibly has the Ovonic NiMh batteries, which could deffinitely be much more likely to survive the long period of sitting. Either way if you have the skill and paitence to remove the pack and trickle charge each battery then you should be able to at least get them charged up enough to find out if everything works or not.
I'm not sure on the availability of the Panasonic PBA batteries, but I know EVbones has NiMh on hand and all the right GM programmers to make the system work with them. They're not cheap at their asking price of $7,000 for the full upgrade, but it's an option that would give you 100 mile range.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thank you very much. This truck is in fact a GM S-10E. I was kind of afraid
that I would hear just about what you have told me. As a first EV and not
knowing the condition of the electric system, I will be keeping my offer, as you
said, to the value of a very low mileage glider. A further question-what
kind of batteries would I be likely to find in this truck, and would protracted
storage without charging be likely to ruin the battery? I feel that the truck
has been storage for quite some time because of the extrordinary low mileage.
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
