EV Digest 4826
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Relay Question
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Any comments on Hall effect throttle controls?
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Civil discourse in the EVDL
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Fet Switch (for heater etc)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: 1/8-Inch End Plates
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Calling on Ford Ranger EV owers and experienced personel.(long)
by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Civil discourse in the EVDL
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Relay Question
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: [ev] Re: turbine hybrid
by Tony Godshall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Calling on Ford Ranger EV owers and experienced personel.(long)
by "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Civil discourse in the EVDL
by mreish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Liquid cooling for Zilla
by kluge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Any comments on Hall effect throttle controls?
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Turn Signals
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Pump for Zilla cooling
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Fet Switch (for heater etc) ; Also, Relay Question
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Any comments on Hall effect throttle controls?
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Fet Switch (for heater etc)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Turn Signals
by Ross Henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Pump for Zilla cooling
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Fet Switch (for heater etc)
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Pump for Zilla cooling
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Backup generator or true hybrid
by "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Liquid cooling for Zilla
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) need better layout under hood
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: 1/8-Inch End Plates
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I'm looking for some 12V relays that have Common, N.O. and N.C. connectors.
In normal usage, the relay will not be energized, and current will pass
through to run the main contactor. If an error occurs, (e.g., motor
overheats, RPM goes too high, etc.), the relay will be energized, which will
cut power to the main contactor and instead illuminate a warning light.
I want to make sure I'm reading the specs correctly. Does this relay look
like it's what I need:
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=500700&type=stor
e
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, Oct 17, 2005 at 02:14:30PM -0700, Eric Poulsen wrote:
>
> WRT Failure mode:
>
> Wow, that's a really bad failure mode! I wonder if using a normal twist
> throttle with pull cables connected to a good HE pedal pot would be a
> better solution for 2-wheeled vehicles?
There is a simple solution for this problem. Just program the controller
to treat absents of any field as 0 and full positive as 100. Then don't use
half of the magnet.
Or you could use two sensors to prove that the magnet is still there (and it is
the magnet you expect it to be).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have no problem with John's opposing viewpoints, his
anti-environmental attitudes, nor his generally gruff demeanor. I simply
take offense to the name calling and derogatory personal comments and
characterizations he makes on a very regular basis. Some feel that this
kind of behavior should be tolerated in the name of diversity. I
disagree. Differing viewpoints can always be expressed in a civil
manner. Those incapable of basic civility should be excluded from the
conversation.
And if someone wants to make a joke, it is a simple matter and an
established custom to put a smiley face or something to make sure people
understand the comments were not serious. In John's case they were.
If someone who was KKK showed up and used racially charged derogatory
comments and name calling that is typical of their poor viewpoints of
African Americans and people of Jewish decent, there would be a huge
outcry and they would be shown the door without hesitation.
John's constant name calling and belittlement of those with differing
opinions is no different fundamentally and no less insulting...
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM/YM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wanted to mention, a FET switch is used in OEM EV fluid heaters
made by MES-DEA (featured on Metric Mind web site).
This pro system is sophisticated enough, see
http://www.metricmind.com/line_art/blk-diag.gif
and thus, cost more than common solution with a
ceramic element wedged into the vent duct (unthinkable for an OEM).
As Lee pointed out there is much more to it than just connecting
a resistive element to the traction pack via relay and dunk it all
in the water bucket bolted to the firewall.
Be careful, water and electricity don't mix very well.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
Lee Hart wrote:
Mark Hanson wrote:
I was thinking of using a Fet switch, (cheaper & smaller than a
contactor with mag blowouts) for controlling the 20A max heater
in my EV.
Besides the obvious specs on voltage and current ratings, size, and
cost, you need something that is isolated, reliable (won't fail "on"),
and won't generate too much heat.
Relays are the obvious solution. For only 20 amps, you don't need a huge
contactor. Depending on your pack voltage, a $5 or $10 relay is enough.
Include an RC "snubber" across the contacts and a diode across the coil,
and you're done.
MOSFETs are a good high-tech solution if you can afford a DC solid-state
relay (it's all built for you), or if you have the time and experience
to design one yourself. But I would caution you that it's trickier than
it looks. Naive design and poor construction will produce something that
costs more and is less reliable than the relay. The key difficulties
are:
- providing isolation
- ensuring that it won't fail "on"
- isolating the heatsink so there aren't any "live" exposed parts
- sealing it up so water, dirt, bugs, etc. can't get in
- overvoltage protection (so it won't fail from voltage transients)
- overcurrent protection (so it won't fail from excessive current)
- overtemperature protection (so if won't fail if it gets too hot)
Look up some circuits for solid-state DC relays to get an idea of what
is required. Better yet, look at some actual relays to see how they are
built. Learn from them, and copy them.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>I've got some 1/8-inch aluminum. Would that be thick enough to be the
>end plates that hold 5 TS cells to keep them from expanding?
>>Seems a bit thin. The ones I have are more like 1/4" thick, with 4
>>straps around the batteries to the end plates.
I've got lots of the aluminum; would doubling them up to get 1/4 inch work?
Instead of staps, I'll be connecting the plates with 1/4-inch All Thread.
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bruce,
I believe that several non-operational electric Rangers were recently
auctioned off on eBay, by the Broward County Transit system, here in
Florida. They sold at least three that I know of, averaging about 7K
each. Buyers were eBay members zdogz, jhirwinirwin, and dickiedou2--
What I did when I bought my AVS buses, I contacted eBay members who
bought the same electric bus, and we created a mutual-support email
dialog. When I got my hands on the buses, I went around identifying
components, then searched (Googled) the next to see which suppliers were
still in business, and I started stalking support.
My AVS bus is Solectria-centric, but with a BMS/charger from a military
contractor who appears to have gotten out of the EV business (except for
an electric HMMV project that looks interesting). But docs can be found.
I would suggest that there are only so many square inches to that
Ranger, and only so many miles to the wiring, and only so many black
boxes, so I would work outward from the battery bay and find my
BMS/charger first, id the motor and controller, and then approach the
component makers for documentation on their individual systems. You'll
never stop looking for the shop manual for your EV Ranger, of course,
but if you had manuals for the components, the Ranger-only portion is
available as a Chilton's, and you'll be armed and dangerous.
One obvious suggestion is to make no modifications at all-- simply pull
all of the individual batteries from the bay, and try to nurse each one
back to health (like a bunch of chattering chicks in your garage), and
if those babies are truly dead, replace them with the exact matching
battery, in a full purchase.
Although a battery-pack redesign is always tempting, keeping the current
pack assignment would allow you to inherit the present value of the box,
the series connectors, the BMS, etc., assuming those are in working
order (your first order of business to change that assumption with
empirical tests).
Probably you would have the option to switching to wet lead if you did
not want the AGM (finding the same form-factor), but there would be some
parameter changes to program into the BMS/charger, I'm sure.
Also, I would suggest beginning with your 12V system first. Find your
12V aux battery and its DC-DC converter, make sure it is taking a charge
and providing aux power. Replace that one (or is it two) battery first,
if necessary.
You should be able to find test/probe points once you've identified each
of your subsystems. Depending on what safety and sanity-checks are
designed into your system, your BMS/charger may refuse to operate in an
undervoltage situation, or because the 12v is not there, or...
Of course, your life and your short hairs are in your own hands, and we
all are counting on you to keep one hand in your pocket, and to treat
any wire thicker than your short hairs with much respect.
Good luck.
Bruce Weisenberger wrote:
First I realize this is not the Ford Ranger Group. But
I need some informational help from experienced people
and the Ford Ranger groups do not seem as informed as
this group is. This post is for those either with
experience specifically on the Ford Ranger EV
commercially produced.
I am about to drop the dead battery pack on a 1999
Ford Ranger EV. And I know the following:
The pack voltage is dead.
39 AGM 8v 65 Ahr Delphi batteries in it. Weight
roughly 2500 lbs. Hooked up in series for 312Vdc pack.
Rear connector is power to drive system
Passenger front connector appears to be from Charging
system.
Now for unknowns yet!
Front Driver side connector. Dozen odd wires coming
out and where it goes.
Voltage requirements for following:
Air conditioning drive motor
Water Cooling drive motor
Power Steering Drive motor
Vacuum booster pump
Cabin electrical requirement for onboard computer
(presently assuming that is 12 volts from auxiliary
battery.
Voltage input to Lamda DC/DC.
Don't know what is in voled with BMS system.
What the present plans are include the following.
Drop the pack to diagnose the issue with it. Suspect
battery rupture as smoke poured out of it during last
drive. Or a loose connection splitting a post. However
it has been sitting almost 3 years so there is
probably little hope there is anything left of the
original pack.
Plan for build of a new pack. Suspect we will have to
build a new pack for it. This will mean redesign of
the pack itself with a probable need of a new Charging
and BMS system unless someone on this list knows how
to change the present system to accomidate a different
battery system. There is also the issue with the
unknowns above we working with.
What I really desire is a shop manual which I have
been unsuccessful in acquiring. Or what someone else
has done to bring their truck back to life. And yes I
know about the pack exchange program but have an issue
with both the price and the lack of warranty and
upgrade-ability with those people.
You ask a question of that company and you get send us
the pack you just hurt yourself working on it. I am
sorry I am an Electronic tech and work on 480Vac Water
heaters and 150 KW ion implanters without issue so
what is issue with a 312Vdc pack.
Anyway back to my problem. I intend to bring this
truck back to life with or without assistance. If I
have to rip the whole electrical out and rewire it I
will. But I would prefer to leave it intact and
rebuild the pack. Just to get another EV on the road
again.
Thanks again for all the information: I am assisting a
friend to get his truck running. He bought this from
ASU and it was running when he bought it. However the
pack died and he wants it back up and running but
doesn't know anything about.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If someone who was KKK showed up and used racially charged derogatory
comments and name calling that is typical of their poor viewpoints of
African Americans and people of Jewish decent, there would be a huge outcry
and they would be shown the door without hesitation.
This is true, and I am certain that anyone on this list who truly does wet
his panties was equally offended. I'm not saying whether I was offended or
not :-)
damon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just noticed that two relays show up on that page. The one I'm asking
about is: CAT# RLY-351
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bill Dennis
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 2:22 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Relay Question
I'm looking for some 12V relays that have Common, N.O. and N.C. connectors.
In normal usage, the relay will not be energized, and current will pass
through to run the main contactor. If an error occurs, (e.g., motor
overheats, RPM goes too high, etc.), the relay will be energized, which will
cut power to the main contactor and instead illuminate a warning light.
I want to make sure I'm reading the specs correctly. Does this relay look
like it's what I need:
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=500700&type=stor
e
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
According to jerry halstead,
> On Oct 17, 2005, at 4:08 PM, Meta Bus wrote:
>
> >Larry Hays wrote:
> >
> >>Whatever happened to the idea of using a turbine to charge
> >>batteries on a hybrid?
> >>
> >Alive and well and residing in my driveway.
> >
>
> Water turbine? That would go over well up here in the Northeast the
> past couple weeks!
No, I think he's talking about a Telsa turbine...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_turbine
;-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So how should we treat these AGM batteries if we are used to floodies.
I am just about to put 36 new AGM's into my battle bus but haven't really
thought about the charging regime - it was just going to inherit the charger
from the old batteries and I was going to limit the current to no more than
C/10 (which is about 18 amps at 216volts) This is about all my 20 amp supply
can handle at the mo.
John - looking for tips
----- Original Message -----
From: "Meta Bus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: Calling on Ford Ranger EV owers and experienced personel.(long)
> Hi Bruce,
>
> I believe that several non-operational electric Rangers were recently
> auctioned off on eBay, by the Broward County Transit system, here in
> Florida. They sold at least three that I know of, averaging about 7K
> each. Buyers were eBay members zdogz, jhirwinirwin, and dickiedou2--
>
> What I did when I bought my AVS buses, I contacted eBay members who
> bought the same electric bus, and we created a mutual-support email
> dialog. When I got my hands on the buses, I went around identifying
> components, then searched (Googled) the next to see which suppliers were
> still in business, and I started stalking support.
>
> My AVS bus is Solectria-centric, but with a BMS/charger from a military
> contractor who appears to have gotten out of the EV business (except for
> an electric HMMV project that looks interesting). But docs can be found.
>
> I would suggest that there are only so many square inches to that
> Ranger, and only so many miles to the wiring, and only so many black
> boxes, so I would work outward from the battery bay and find my
> BMS/charger first, id the motor and controller, and then approach the
> component makers for documentation on their individual systems. You'll
> never stop looking for the shop manual for your EV Ranger, of course,
> but if you had manuals for the components, the Ranger-only portion is
> available as a Chilton's, and you'll be armed and dangerous.
>
> One obvious suggestion is to make no modifications at all-- simply pull
> all of the individual batteries from the bay, and try to nurse each one
> back to health (like a bunch of chattering chicks in your garage), and
> if those babies are truly dead, replace them with the exact matching
> battery, in a full purchase.
>
> Although a battery-pack redesign is always tempting, keeping the current
> pack assignment would allow you to inherit the present value of the box,
> the series connectors, the BMS, etc., assuming those are in working
> order (your first order of business to change that assumption with
> empirical tests).
>
> Probably you would have the option to switching to wet lead if you did
> not want the AGM (finding the same form-factor), but there would be some
> parameter changes to program into the BMS/charger, I'm sure.
>
> Also, I would suggest beginning with your 12V system first. Find your
> 12V aux battery and its DC-DC converter, make sure it is taking a charge
> and providing aux power. Replace that one (or is it two) battery first,
> if necessary.
>
> You should be able to find test/probe points once you've identified each
> of your subsystems. Depending on what safety and sanity-checks are
> designed into your system, your BMS/charger may refuse to operate in an
> undervoltage situation, or because the 12v is not there, or...
>
> Of course, your life and your short hairs are in your own hands, and we
> all are counting on you to keep one hand in your pocket, and to treat
> any wire thicker than your short hairs with much respect.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Bruce Weisenberger wrote:
> > First I realize this is not the Ford Ranger Group. But
> > I need some informational help from experienced people
> > and the Ford Ranger groups do not seem as informed as
> > this group is. This post is for those either with
> > experience specifically on the Ford Ranger EV
> > commercially produced.
> >
> > I am about to drop the dead battery pack on a 1999
> > Ford Ranger EV. And I know the following:
> > The pack voltage is dead.
> > 39 AGM 8v 65 Ahr Delphi batteries in it. Weight
> > roughly 2500 lbs. Hooked up in series for 312Vdc pack.
> >
> > Rear connector is power to drive system
> >
> > Passenger front connector appears to be from Charging
> > system.
> >
> > Now for unknowns yet!
> > Front Driver side connector. Dozen odd wires coming
> > out and where it goes.
> >
> > Voltage requirements for following:
> > Air conditioning drive motor
> > Water Cooling drive motor
> > Power Steering Drive motor
> > Vacuum booster pump
> > Cabin electrical requirement for onboard computer
> > (presently assuming that is 12 volts from auxiliary
> > battery.
> > Voltage input to Lamda DC/DC.
> >
> > Don't know what is in voled with BMS system.
> >
> > What the present plans are include the following.
> > Drop the pack to diagnose the issue with it. Suspect
> > battery rupture as smoke poured out of it during last
> > drive. Or a loose connection splitting a post. However
> > it has been sitting almost 3 years so there is
> > probably little hope there is anything left of the
> > original pack.
> > Plan for build of a new pack. Suspect we will have to
> > build a new pack for it. This will mean redesign of
> > the pack itself with a probable need of a new Charging
> > and BMS system unless someone on this list knows how
> > to change the present system to accomidate a different
> > battery system. There is also the issue with the
> > unknowns above we working with.
> > What I really desire is a shop manual which I have
> > been unsuccessful in acquiring. Or what someone else
> > has done to bring their truck back to life. And yes I
> > know about the pack exchange program but have an issue
> > with both the price and the lack of warranty and
> > upgrade-ability with those people.
> > You ask a question of that company and you get send us
> > the pack you just hurt yourself working on it. I am
> > sorry I am an Electronic tech and work on 480Vac Water
> > heaters and 150 KW ion implanters without issue so
> > what is issue with a 312Vdc pack.
> >
> > Anyway back to my problem. I intend to bring this
> > truck back to life with or without assistance. If I
> > have to rip the whole electrical out and rewire it I
> > will. But I would prefer to leave it intact and
> > rebuild the pack. Just to get another EV on the road
> > again.
> > Thanks again for all the information: I am assisting a
> > friend to get his truck running. He bought this from
> > ASU and it was running when he bought it. However the
> > pack died and he wants it back up and running but
> > doesn't know anything about.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.2/137 - Release Date: 16/10/2005
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If someone who was KKK showed up and used racially charged
derogatory comments and name calling that is typical of their poor
viewpoints of African Americans and people of Jewish decent, there
would be a huge outcry and they would be shown the door without
hesitation.
Of course there'd be huge outcry - they'd be off topic!
Then again, I don't wear panties. Well, there was that one weekend
back in college but I don't think that counts... :)
--
The Electric Motorcycle Portal
http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/
New Electric Motorcycle ListServe
http://electricmotorcycles.net/modules/mypage/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Madman says: Radiator preformance curves... I am hoping to have that question
answered also, but... it's going to be a LOT more than anybody really needs,
since alot of the really heavey
hitter EV with Zilla2Ks, don't even have radiators, just a liter or so of water
and a pump. Most of the cooling is from the bulk Spec heat of the water and
plumbing. And rarley do they over
heat. With 2 liters a minute of water flow and 50 CFM of fan, and a Delta T of
30 Deg F.... most folks would call this over kill. Even Otmar.
This is what I've been thinking about since this topic came up. I'm really not
convinced that a Zilla is going to generate enought heat to make the somewhat
elaborate cooling systems being
discussed necessary. Wouldn't a submersible pump in a metal tank of 1 to 2
liter capacity, circulating the coolant between the Zilla and the tank, do the
job just fine? Isn't even a small
radiator overkill (as well as another opportunity for mechanical failure?)
Particularly when you consider the limited cycle time inherent in an electric
vehicle - I mean, the Zilla isn't going to be
pumping out big amps for hours on end, is it? I can see that liquid cooling is
better than air cooling - largely due to the huge increase in thermal mass, and
good heat transfer. But I'd be
curious to see a temperature reading on the coolant used in a Zilla without a
radiator after a hard run.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nick Austin wrote:
2) Will any HE throttle work with a Zilla controller? Otmar? What about
these: http://www.electricscooterparts.com/throttles.html
They can emulate pots, so it seems like it should be possible.
Unfortunately, the Zilla requires a rheostat ...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross Henderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "ev list" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:06 PM
Subject: Turn Signals
Gentlemen: The converted 1991 Isuzu pick up EV I recently purchased has a
bug... It does not appear to have ever been inspected and I believe the
turn signals have probably never been reconnected or to have ever worked
since conversion. I checked fuses and light bulbs but neither front or
rear turn signals work (no sound either) and only the rear flashers work
(both sides). I'm about ready to take it to the shop unless someone has
an idea. Ross
When I'm trouble shooting something like this I try to take some point
(after I've checked all the easy stuff. ) in the middle then test to see
what half is working . there should but a plug on the steering wheel with
many wires coming out , with a 12v car brake light with 2 long wires hooked
to it , hook one to the plus on the 12 aux battery and go along the plug
that goes to the car ( not to the steering wheel ) and touch each pin . If
non of the pins make the lights work then you know its not in the steering
column switch , if with this you can make the lights work then it is and
you'll probable need to replace the whole switch assemble. You did check the
flashers , many care have 2 , one for the emergence and the other for turn ,
dose it use the same light for brakes ? and dose that work . with your test
light and long wire set up you can poke around as you trace the wire to try
to get the lights to work . When you find the wire that makes the lights
light ( test light will burn brighter that tail , ) then you'll know the
problem is between these two points .
steve clunn .
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've been doing a lot of "research" (web surfing) into finding a decent
12V pump for use with the Zilla -- I consider the use of an inverter
kinda hack-ish.
My "research" mostly involved reading about what the overclockers
(people who max out their computer performance) are using for their
water cooled computers. Many of these guys leave their computer on
24/7, so pump reliability is something they're really sensitive to,
since a blown pump means a blown CPU.
Seems like the best price/performance is to be had with the Swiftech
MCP-655 (Aka Liang D5). It's 12V, 1/2" barb connections. The only
moving part is the impeller which is magnetically coupled to an
electronic communtator. Think of a brushless DC motor where the rotor is
actually a pump impeller. There is only 1 wear point: a ceramic bead
bearing. You can see the internals of this pump here:
http://www.systemcooling.com/swiftech_mcp655-03.html
Near as I can tell, this is an industrial pump that's been repurposed
for CPU cooling.
Specs:
Model: MCP-655
12V
10' Head
1/2" barbs in/out
NON submersible
317 GPH (5.28 GPM).
Made by Liang,model: D5
Typically about $75 each
Incidently, this pump is sold by the same folks (Swiftech) that make the
radiator in the liquid cooling package that Ryan is selling. FWIW, the
price of the cooling package that Ryan is selling is a good deal, even
if for the pump _alone_, which seems to retail for $130 to (more
typically) $170 to $200. If I didn't already have 80% of the parts in
the kit on order, I'd think of getting one myself.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mark,
What voltage are you using? Whether you use a MOSFET or IGBT, you will
get quite a bit of power dissipation, and will need a heatsink.
> Relays are the obvious solution. For only 20 amps, you don't need a
> huge contactor. Depending on your pack voltage, a $5 or $10 relay is
> enough. Include an RC "snubber" across the contacts and a diode
> across the coil, and you're done.
A relay would be preferable. It is sealed (or at least after adding
some epoxy to the small cracks), doesn't have any leakage, can have
reversed polarities, and is quite inexpensive.
It almost seems that the relay Bill is talking about would be the best
suited, except I would expect that it's only rated for 12/32V. All of
the relays I run across have a higher AC rating than DC rating. Is this
because of arcing, List?
If it were me, Mark, I would use the RLY-351 linked below. There are
even some Digi-Key relays "Ideal for heater loads": try the 255-1366-ND.
Hi Bill,
> I just noticed that two relays show up on that page. The one I'm
> asking about is: CAT# RLY-351
AFAIK, these relays have five pins. Two should have the 100 ohms or
such between them, two more should have 1 ohm or less (common and N.C.),
and one should seem to be not connected. Give it 12V across the 100
ohms and the common will be then connected to the fifth pin (which is
N.O.).
I've been using a similar relay in my ICE to switch my homebuilt 1000W
audio amplifier's supply. It connects the 1F and 0.1F capacitors every
time the car starts up, and it's been doing quite well for two years.
Relay:
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=500&item=RLY-351&type=store
Socket:
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=search&item=SRLY-2&type=store
- Arthur
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Actually, if you scroll down on this page:
http://cafeelectric.com/products/price/index.html
...you'll see that there is a Hall Effect Pedal Input option available
for the Hairball.
Andrew
Eric Poulsen wrote:
Nick Austin wrote:
2) Will any HE throttle work with a Zilla controller? Otmar? What
about these: http://www.electricscooterparts.com/throttles.html
They can emulate pots, so it seems like it should be possible.
Unfortunately, the Zilla requires a rheostat ...
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Phil Marino [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultVi
>
>ew?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&searchType=k&searchValue=rel
ay&categoryId=353570
>
[snip]
> at least some of the solid state relays listed in the jameco page
> (first URL above) DO seem to be DC compatible. This is from the
> description of one of them:
>
> Crydom Relay Series 1 SCR 3-32VDC 10A
> 10A 240V DC
The particular relay you cite is not capable of switching DC, however,
you are absolutely correct that some of the relays listed on the Jameco
page *are* appropriate for switching DC.
For instance, the first 3 on the page (Crydom #'s D06Dxxx) are rated for
switching 60VDC at 100A, 80A, and 60A. Elsewhere in the list, Jameco
p/n 468922 is another MOSFET output relay rated for switching 0-400VDC
at 0.2-12A. There are over 300 relays in this Jameco list and Crydom
makes DC-capable MOSFET, IGBT, and bi-polar output SSRs in addition to
the AC-only SCR and triac output types, so I expect there will be other
DC-capable SSRs in the list.
Don't trust Jameco's dscriptions of the part - they tend to be horribly
inaccurate. You can't even trust the pictures to be of the purported
part. Go by the manufacturer's part number and check the
specs/description on Crydom's site. For instance, Crydom SSRs in the
1-DCL, D1D/D2D/D4D, D06D, and SSC lines are panel-mount DC-capable SSRs.
Cheers,
Roger.
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OK - GOT IT... Was a bad 4 way flasher switch... We're ready for State
inspection.
Thanks, Ross
Ross Henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Gentlemen: The converted 1991 Isuzu pick up EV I recently purchased has a
bug... It does not appear to have ever been inspected and I believe the turn
signals have probably never been reconnected or to have ever worked since
conversion. I checked fuses and light bulbs but neither front or rear turn
signals work (no sound either) and only the rear flashers work (both sides).
I'm about ready to take it to the shop unless someone has an idea. Ross
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
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On Mon, Oct 17, 2005 at 03:39:02PM -0700, Eric Poulsen wrote:
<..snip..>
>
> My "research" mostly involved reading about what the overclockers
> (people who max out their computer performance) are using for their
> water cooled computers. Many of these guys leave their computer on
> 24/7, so pump reliability is something they're really sensitive to,
> since a blown pump means a blown CPU.
I just want to mention that this is not always the case. Almost any system made
in the last 3 or 4 years will either throttle down to protect themselves (P4),
or shutdown entirely (Athlon with COPS). So not every overclocker will pick
reliability over, say having a pretty LED on the pump :)
That's not to say that the pump you found may not the best for this job, just
a thought about the premise.
<..snip..>
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On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:59:29 -0400, "Phil Marino"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>Because those use SCRs in the output and are AC-only. Unless you want
>>a switch that latches on and doesn't release until you open the pack
>>disconnect.
>>
>
>John - at least some of the solid state relays listed in the jameco page (
>first URL above) DO seem to be DC compatible. This is from the description
>of one of them:
You're correct. I only scanned the first few lines of the web page.
Sorry about that. The leak-through issue is still there, though, and
is enough for me not to use SSRs if there is a chance any unqualified
person might contact the circuit.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
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On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:39:02 -0700, Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Seems like the best price/performance is to be had with the Swiftech
>MCP-655 (Aka Liang D5). It's 12V, 1/2" barb connections. The only
>moving part is the impeller which is magnetically coupled to an
>electronic communtator. Think of a brushless DC motor where the rotor is
>actually a pump impeller. There is only 1 wear point: a ceramic bead
>bearing. You can see the internals of this pump here:
>
>http://www.systemcooling.com/swiftech_mcp655-03.html
>
>Near as I can tell, this is an industrial pump that's been repurposed
>for CPU cooling.
Slick looking pump. I wish the temperature specs went a bit higher,
I'd have an application for hot water circulation. It should do a
good job in this application.
>Incidently, this pump is sold by the same folks (Swiftech) that make the
>radiator in the liquid cooling package that Ryan is selling. FWIW, the
>price of the cooling package that Ryan is selling is a good deal, even
>if for the pump _alone_, which seems to retail for $130 to (more
>typically) $170 to $200. If I didn't already have 80% of the parts in
>the kit on order, I'd think of getting one myself.
I plugged "swiftech mcp655 pump" into google and the first result was
apparently a froogle search. The first three prices were all in the
$70 range. Quite reasonable for a pump like that.
My personal preference for automotive use, especially EVs, is brushed
motors for small loads because I think them to be more reliable than
BLDCs with all the electrical crap flying around an EV. Still I'd
give this one a try for the price.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
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I have my converted Diahatsu running again now. The clutch friction
plate spline had been chewed out by the gearbox input shaft. There was
only about 40% engagement of the spline.
The decision I have now is whether to have a backup generator or a true
hybrid. If backup, a cheap & nasty inefficient set may be used but if
true hybrid I have a 400cm3 Robbins Diesel I may use. What have others
on the list used?
David
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You have to remember if your EV is setting out in the hot sun of 100 degrees F
the underhood temperature I read at one time was 140 degrees F. Then
everything under the hood the Zilla and cooling system will be at or close to
that temperature. I can read the coolent temperature, Zilla heat sink
temperature, under hood air temperature, motor temperature and ambiant
temperature with a array of indicators on my dash plates.
When the underhood temperature was 140 degrees F. with a ambiant temperature of
100 degrees, I first get a initial reading from 135 to 139 degrees F. reading
on the indicators. I then turn on the pump which is a Maxijet 1200 run by my
main DC-AC inverter. (you can get at very small inverter to run this 0.5 amp or
less pump at 120 vac from Wal-Mart). The Maxijet can work external without it
being submersed. It connected right to the bottom 3/4 inch pipe stud of a GM
remote fill tank with pressure cap ( normally used for radiators that are lower
than the engine.)
The pump circulates the coolent through a small oil radiator that is mounted in
front of a A/C radiator that has a fan on it. The temperature of the Zilla
heat sinks and coolent now drops to 99 degrees F.
Its stays there, even driving a EV that is fully loaded to 7000 lbs at 30 mphs.
I also have two 150 CFM Dayton blower fans, that bring the cooler air from
below the car which also cools the Zilla and the Motor. This quickly drops the
under hood temperature about 30 degrees.
I also could cool down the Zilla even more by coiling the one of the 3/8 lines
that returns to the Zilla, by wrapping it around the A/C lines (the one that
gets cold) and double insulated with A/C foam tubing. I did not have to do
this yet.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: kluge<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 4:04 PM
Subject: Liquid cooling for Zilla
Madman says: Radiator preformance curves... I am hoping to have that
question answered also, but... it's going to be a LOT more than anybody really
needs, since alot of the really heavey
hitter EV with Zilla2Ks, don't even have radiators, just a liter or so of
water and a pump. Most of the cooling is from the bulk Spec heat of the water
and plumbing. And rarley do they over
heat. With 2 liters a minute of water flow and 50 CFM of fan, and a Delta T
of 30 Deg F.... most folks would call this over kill. Even Otmar.
This is what I've been thinking about since this topic came up. I'm really
not convinced that a Zilla is going to generate enought heat to make the
somewhat elaborate cooling systems being
discussed necessary. Wouldn't a submersible pump in a metal tank of 1 to 2
liter capacity, circulating the coolant between the Zilla and the tank, do the
job just fine? Isn't even a small
radiator overkill (as well as another opportunity for mechanical failure?)
Particularly when you consider the limited cycle time inherent in an electric
vehicle - I mean, the Zilla isn't going to be
pumping out big amps for hours on end, is it? I can see that liquid cooling
is better than air cooling - largely due to the huge increase in thermal mass,
and good heat transfer. But I'd be
curious to see a temperature reading on the coolant used in a Zilla without a
radiator after a hard run.
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300zx project
I purchased 25 batteries but I only have 17 in right now. 13 in back
and 4 under the hood above the motor. I was planning on 8 more in front
but am having trouble fitting them in. If I get rid of my Air
Conditioning(AC) condensor I could easily get 6 batteries and probably
mount the zilla above them then fill the zilla hole with #7 and the
stock battery placement with #8. But Fresno is not known for cool
weather and AC is usually a must.
I hate to put any more in back because of weight distribution.
If I try to leave the AC I can't see getting more than 4 more up there.
Would it be crazy to locate the AC compressor and condensor with fan
under the car in back where the gas tank was? and just route the AC
hozes up the tunnel? I suppose all kinds of rocks and stuff thrown up
from the wheels would take it out?
Another idea would be to lay it down flat up front and make a cowel. or
find a shorter condensor that can be stood up, the 300 zx condensor and
radiator lay down at an angle crossing the opening and really uses up a
lot of space.
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It really depends on the Aluminum. If you get say 3/8 thick 7075 aluminum
you would have no trouble with it. You might have to go a little thicker on
say 6061 aluminum to get the same strength.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Dennis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 5:32 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: 1/8-Inch End Plates
>I've got some 1/8-inch aluminum. Would that be thick enough to be the
>end plates that hold 5 TS cells to keep them from expanding?
>>Seems a bit thin. The ones I have are more like 1/4" thick, with 4
>>straps around the batteries to the end plates.
I've got lots of the aluminum; would doubling them up to get 1/4 inch work?
Instead of staps, I'll be connecting the plates with 1/4-inch All Thread.
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
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