EV Digest 4827
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Calling on Ford Ranger EV owers and experienced personel.(lon
g)
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: need better layout under hood
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Pump for Zilla cooling
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Request for subject line header
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Calling on Ford Ranger EV owers and experienced personel.(long)
by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Exide Floodeds vs AGM
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) long-run air cond, Re: need better layout under hood
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Civil discourse in the EVDL
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) no tact when you discuss or explain.
by "steven sullivan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Pump for Zilla cooling
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: need better layout under hood
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) OT - Variable Freq Drive needed
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Any comments on Hall effect throttle controls?
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Civil discourse in the EVDL
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Pump for Zilla cooling
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) (Another) Zilla question
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Relay Question
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Exide Floodeds vs AGM
by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Backup generator or true hybrid
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: OT - Variable Freq Drive needed
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: 1980 Rabbit vacuum or not?
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
AGM batteries can actually handlemuch higher charge currents than floodeds
since they don't vent and don't get pockets like gel cells. I would assume
you could get away with a C/5 rated charge on them without hurting them.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Luck Home [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 5:58 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Calling on Ford Ranger EV owers and experienced
personel.(long)
So how should we treat these AGM batteries if we are used to floodies.
I am just about to put 36 new AGM's into my battle bus but haven't really
thought about the charging regime - it was just going to inherit the charger
from the old batteries and I was going to limit the current to no more than
C/10 (which is about 18 amps at 216volts) This is about all my 20 amp supply
can handle at the mo.
John - looking for tips
----- Original Message -----
From: "Meta Bus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: Calling on Ford Ranger EV owers and experienced personel.(long)
> Hi Bruce,
>
> I believe that several non-operational electric Rangers were recently
> auctioned off on eBay, by the Broward County Transit system, here in
> Florida. They sold at least three that I know of, averaging about 7K
> each. Buyers were eBay members zdogz, jhirwinirwin, and dickiedou2--
>
> What I did when I bought my AVS buses, I contacted eBay members who
> bought the same electric bus, and we created a mutual-support email
> dialog. When I got my hands on the buses, I went around identifying
> components, then searched (Googled) the next to see which suppliers were
> still in business, and I started stalking support.
>
> My AVS bus is Solectria-centric, but with a BMS/charger from a military
> contractor who appears to have gotten out of the EV business (except for
> an electric HMMV project that looks interesting). But docs can be found.
>
> I would suggest that there are only so many square inches to that
> Ranger, and only so many miles to the wiring, and only so many black
> boxes, so I would work outward from the battery bay and find my
> BMS/charger first, id the motor and controller, and then approach the
> component makers for documentation on their individual systems. You'll
> never stop looking for the shop manual for your EV Ranger, of course,
> but if you had manuals for the components, the Ranger-only portion is
> available as a Chilton's, and you'll be armed and dangerous.
>
> One obvious suggestion is to make no modifications at all-- simply pull
> all of the individual batteries from the bay, and try to nurse each one
> back to health (like a bunch of chattering chicks in your garage), and
> if those babies are truly dead, replace them with the exact matching
> battery, in a full purchase.
>
> Although a battery-pack redesign is always tempting, keeping the current
> pack assignment would allow you to inherit the present value of the box,
> the series connectors, the BMS, etc., assuming those are in working
> order (your first order of business to change that assumption with
> empirical tests).
>
> Probably you would have the option to switching to wet lead if you did
> not want the AGM (finding the same form-factor), but there would be some
> parameter changes to program into the BMS/charger, I'm sure.
>
> Also, I would suggest beginning with your 12V system first. Find your
> 12V aux battery and its DC-DC converter, make sure it is taking a charge
> and providing aux power. Replace that one (or is it two) battery first,
> if necessary.
>
> You should be able to find test/probe points once you've identified each
> of your subsystems. Depending on what safety and sanity-checks are
> designed into your system, your BMS/charger may refuse to operate in an
> undervoltage situation, or because the 12v is not there, or...
>
> Of course, your life and your short hairs are in your own hands, and we
> all are counting on you to keep one hand in your pocket, and to treat
> any wire thicker than your short hairs with much respect.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Bruce Weisenberger wrote:
> > First I realize this is not the Ford Ranger Group. But
> > I need some informational help from experienced people
> > and the Ford Ranger groups do not seem as informed as
> > this group is. This post is for those either with
> > experience specifically on the Ford Ranger EV
> > commercially produced.
> >
> > I am about to drop the dead battery pack on a 1999
> > Ford Ranger EV. And I know the following:
> > The pack voltage is dead.
> > 39 AGM 8v 65 Ahr Delphi batteries in it. Weight
> > roughly 2500 lbs. Hooked up in series for 312Vdc pack.
> >
> > Rear connector is power to drive system
> >
> > Passenger front connector appears to be from Charging
> > system.
> >
> > Now for unknowns yet!
> > Front Driver side connector. Dozen odd wires coming
> > out and where it goes.
> >
> > Voltage requirements for following:
> > Air conditioning drive motor
> > Water Cooling drive motor
> > Power Steering Drive motor
> > Vacuum booster pump
> > Cabin electrical requirement for onboard computer
> > (presently assuming that is 12 volts from auxiliary
> > battery.
> > Voltage input to Lamda DC/DC.
> >
> > Don't know what is in voled with BMS system.
> >
> > What the present plans are include the following.
> > Drop the pack to diagnose the issue with it. Suspect
> > battery rupture as smoke poured out of it during last
> > drive. Or a loose connection splitting a post. However
> > it has been sitting almost 3 years so there is
> > probably little hope there is anything left of the
> > original pack.
> > Plan for build of a new pack. Suspect we will have to
> > build a new pack for it. This will mean redesign of
> > the pack itself with a probable need of a new Charging
> > and BMS system unless someone on this list knows how
> > to change the present system to accomidate a different
> > battery system. There is also the issue with the
> > unknowns above we working with.
> > What I really desire is a shop manual which I have
> > been unsuccessful in acquiring. Or what someone else
> > has done to bring their truck back to life. And yes I
> > know about the pack exchange program but have an issue
> > with both the price and the lack of warranty and
> > upgrade-ability with those people.
> > You ask a question of that company and you get send us
> > the pack you just hurt yourself working on it. I am
> > sorry I am an Electronic tech and work on 480Vac Water
> > heaters and 150 KW ion implanters without issue so
> > what is issue with a 312Vdc pack.
> >
> > Anyway back to my problem. I intend to bring this
> > truck back to life with or without assistance. If I
> > have to rip the whole electrical out and rewire it I
> > will. But I would prefer to leave it intact and
> > rebuild the pack. Just to get another EV on the road
> > again.
> > Thanks again for all the information: I am assisting a
> > friend to get his truck running. He bought this from
> > ASU and it was running when he bought it. However the
> > pack died and he wants it back up and running but
> > doesn't know anything about.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.2/137 - Release Date: 16/10/2005
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You CAN mount the AC system in the back no problem. Just route the hoses
inside of a PVC pipe or something to protect them.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Shanab [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 2:32 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: need better layout under hood
300zx project
I purchased 25 batteries but I only have 17 in right now. 13 in back
and 4 under the hood above the motor. I was planning on 8 more in front
but am having trouble fitting them in. If I get rid of my Air
Conditioning(AC) condensor I could easily get 6 batteries and probably
mount the zilla above them then fill the zilla hole with #7 and the
stock battery placement with #8. But Fresno is not known for cool
weather and AC is usually a must.
I hate to put any more in back because of weight distribution.
If I try to leave the AC I can't see getting more than 4 more up there.
Would it be crazy to locate the AC compressor and condensor with fan
under the car in back where the gas tank was? and just route the AC
hozes up the tunnel? I suppose all kinds of rocks and stuff thrown up
from the wheels would take it out?
Another idea would be to lay it down flat up front and make a cowel. or
find a shorter condensor that can be stood up, the 300 zx condensor and
radiator lay down at an angle crossing the opening and really uses up a
lot of space.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nick Austin wrote:
On Mon, Oct 17, 2005 at 03:39:02PM -0700, Eric Poulsen wrote:
<..snip..>
My "research" mostly involved reading about what the overclockers
(people who max out their computer performance) are using for their
water cooled computers. Many of these guys leave their computer on
24/7, so pump reliability is something they're really sensitive to,
since a blown pump means a blown CPU.
I just want to mention that this is not always the case. Almost any system made
in the last 3 or 4 years will either throttle down to protect themselves (P4),
or shutdown entirely (Athlon with COPS). So not every overclocker will pick
reliability over, say having a pretty LED on the pump :)
That's not to say that the pump you found may not the best for this job, just
a thought about the premise.
<..snip..>
Point taken. There certainly is a lot of "pretty blinking lights"
type of thinking in the O/C crowd. The pump in question is often listed
as 50,000 hour MTBF The actual amount (from Laing) is 10,000 hours
MTBF: http://www.lainginc.com/D_Series.htm The "Delphi" style pump by
Laing _is_ rated 50,000 MTBF: http://www.lainginc.com/DDC_Series.htm
Unfortunately, the Delphi pump is unable to provide 2 GPM.
Assuming you'll get 10,000 hours out of it, and assuming it runs 3 hours
a day (generous, if it's only for the Zilla), then this pump will last
you a little over 9 years.
I think in any water cooling setup, you should at least have a flow
sensor switch hooked up to an "idiot light" on your dash. This is
probably more important than coolant temp, because the coolant temp will
be just fine in the event of no flow (assuming you're measuring temp at
the tank), or (for that matter) no coolant at all.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good luck! You can't even get people to change the subject line when
they hijack a thread with an unrelated question.
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Hi everyone,
I realize that not everyone is able to use email filters to delete
messages from folks they might find annoying or abrasive.
However, if it's not to much trouble, could you please consider using a
standard preface to your subject line when complaining about them?
This will allow those of us who are using filters to eliminate these
messages as well.
I'd recommend starting the subject line with the letters BAJ
(Bitching About John)
Thanks, Pete.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Luck Home wrote:
So how should we treat these AGM batteries if we are used to floodies.
Just from reading here and elsewhere (and by no means claiming an
authoritative answer), I know that there are differing optimal charging
voltages for the differing chemistries. Your new AGMs will like your old
flooded's charger better if it has adjustable set-points for the various
stages. If you have an intelligent charger, you might be able to adjust.
If you boil your flooded a little during EQ, that's okay, you can play
mad scientist and add some distilled water from your beaker. Not so with
your expensive AGM (or my gels).
You can get the voltages from your AGM manufacturer's docs, outlining
the optimal settings. Whether or not you can reprogram your old
flooded's charger is another story.
At the very least you might have a simple switch for Sealed vs. Flooded.
Have you measured your charger's outputs, i.e. laid a meter across while
charging (at 2 or 3 stages)? Your new AGMs are precious babies, so I'd
be watching the nanny (your charger) like a hawk.
Regards
I am just about to put 36 new AGM's into my battle bus but haven't really
thought about the charging regime - it was just going to inherit the charger
from the old batteries and I was going to limit the current to no more than
C/10 (which is about 18 amps at 216volts) This is about all my 20 amp supply
can handle at the mo.
John - looking for tips
----- Original Message -----
From: "Meta Bus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: Calling on Ford Ranger EV owers and experienced personel.(long)
Hi Bruce,
I believe that several non-operational electric Rangers were recently
auctioned off on eBay, by the Broward County Transit system, here in
Florida. They sold at least three that I know of, averaging about 7K
each. Buyers were eBay members zdogz, jhirwinirwin, and dickiedou2--
What I did when I bought my AVS buses, I contacted eBay members who
bought the same electric bus, and we created a mutual-support email
dialog. When I got my hands on the buses, I went around identifying
components, then searched (Googled) the next to see which suppliers were
still in business, and I started stalking support.
My AVS bus is Solectria-centric, but with a BMS/charger from a military
contractor who appears to have gotten out of the EV business (except for
an electric HMMV project that looks interesting). But docs can be found.
I would suggest that there are only so many square inches to that
Ranger, and only so many miles to the wiring, and only so many black
boxes, so I would work outward from the battery bay and find my
BMS/charger first, id the motor and controller, and then approach the
component makers for documentation on their individual systems. You'll
never stop looking for the shop manual for your EV Ranger, of course,
but if you had manuals for the components, the Ranger-only portion is
available as a Chilton's, and you'll be armed and dangerous.
One obvious suggestion is to make no modifications at all-- simply pull
all of the individual batteries from the bay, and try to nurse each one
back to health (like a bunch of chattering chicks in your garage), and
if those babies are truly dead, replace them with the exact matching
battery, in a full purchase.
Although a battery-pack redesign is always tempting, keeping the current
pack assignment would allow you to inherit the present value of the box,
the series connectors, the BMS, etc., assuming those are in working
order (your first order of business to change that assumption with
empirical tests).
Probably you would have the option to switching to wet lead if you did
not want the AGM (finding the same form-factor), but there would be some
parameter changes to program into the BMS/charger, I'm sure.
Also, I would suggest beginning with your 12V system first. Find your
12V aux battery and its DC-DC converter, make sure it is taking a charge
and providing aux power. Replace that one (or is it two) battery first,
if necessary.
You should be able to find test/probe points once you've identified each
of your subsystems. Depending on what safety and sanity-checks are
designed into your system, your BMS/charger may refuse to operate in an
undervoltage situation, or because the 12v is not there, or...
Of course, your life and your short hairs are in your own hands, and we
all are counting on you to keep one hand in your pocket, and to treat
any wire thicker than your short hairs with much respect.
Good luck.
Bruce Weisenberger wrote:
First I realize this is not the Ford Ranger Group. But
I need some informational help from experienced people
and the Ford Ranger groups do not seem as informed as
this group is. This post is for those either with
experience specifically on the Ford Ranger EV
commercially produced.
I am about to drop the dead battery pack on a 1999
Ford Ranger EV. And I know the following:
The pack voltage is dead.
39 AGM 8v 65 Ahr Delphi batteries in it. Weight
roughly 2500 lbs. Hooked up in series for 312Vdc pack.
Rear connector is power to drive system
Passenger front connector appears to be from Charging
system.
Now for unknowns yet!
Front Driver side connector. Dozen odd wires coming
out and where it goes.
Voltage requirements for following:
Air conditioning drive motor
Water Cooling drive motor
Power Steering Drive motor
Vacuum booster pump
Cabin electrical requirement for onboard computer
(presently assuming that is 12 volts from auxiliary
battery.
Voltage input to Lamda DC/DC.
Don't know what is in voled with BMS system.
What the present plans are include the following.
Drop the pack to diagnose the issue with it. Suspect
battery rupture as smoke poured out of it during last
drive. Or a loose connection splitting a post. However
it has been sitting almost 3 years so there is
probably little hope there is anything left of the
original pack.
Plan for build of a new pack. Suspect we will have to
build a new pack for it. This will mean redesign of
the pack itself with a probable need of a new Charging
and BMS system unless someone on this list knows how
to change the present system to accomidate a different
battery system. There is also the issue with the
unknowns above we working with.
What I really desire is a shop manual which I have
been unsuccessful in acquiring. Or what someone else
has done to bring their truck back to life. And yes I
know about the pack exchange program but have an issue
with both the price and the lack of warranty and
upgrade-ability with those people.
You ask a question of that company and you get send us
the pack you just hurt yourself working on it. I am
sorry I am an Electronic tech and work on 480Vac Water
heaters and 150 KW ion implanters without issue so
what is issue with a 312Vdc pack.
Anyway back to my problem. I intend to bring this
truck back to life with or without assistance. If I
have to rip the whole electrical out and rewire it I
will. But I would prefer to leave it intact and
rebuild the pack. Just to get another EV on the road
again.
Thanks again for all the information: I am assisting a
friend to get his truck running. He bought this from
ASU and it was running when he bought it. However the
pack died and he wants it back up and running but
doesn't know anything about.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.2/137 - Release Date: 16/10/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is an AWESOME idea. Until now I didnt even think of Rhino Lining my
battery boxes but now that you mention it that is an awesome way to
corrosion protect them. If you want an AGM battery with the same AH
capacity as the Trojan T105 try the Concorde Sunextender series. They are a
bit pricey but they will give you the performance you are looking for AND
the range.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 10:09 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu; ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Exide Floodeds vs AGM
I know I have beat this horse to death already, but I need some more
opinions here.
I haven't committed totally to my choice of a battery pack. I have made
sure my battery box is capable of supporting and maintainence of either
AGM's or flooded, whichever I end up going with. Box is now finished except
the Rhino coat on the inside and I am good to go on that.
I have heard a lot of pros and cons, the AGM's of course being a lot better
on weight, delivered current, required maintenance, etc, downside pickiness
on charging, extra cost intitially and pricey chargers, regulators, etc.
I have been looking at some Exide Stowaway batteries which would fit my
system, are priced well and readily available. Some are rated at 80ah.
Their big brothers are 105 and 200ah respectively. Of course the real big
ones are huge as well. Of course I know these AH ratings have a lot of
variables in how they are described.
So my question is....compared to AGM's which rate about 50ah, in the same
vehicle, won't any of the floodeds deliver better range at a sacrifice of
performance?
A lot of arguments are made both ways here about the low cost per mile on
floodies, the performance of AGM's, etc. In my case I already have some
losses due to my automatic transmission and won't want to end up with a car
that only goes 10 miles on a charge. This won't do at all with the cost of
the conversion. The cost per mile using AGM's seems a lot higher if part of
your objective is beating the cost of gasoline. I need 20-25 miles minimum.
The other factor is I can go with a Zivan charger, which was my initial
choice and no big hassles other than the periodic maintenance required.
Mark Ward
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff,
Would it be crazy to locate the AC compressor and condensor with fan
under the car in back where the gas tank was? and just route the AC
hozes up the tunnel? I suppose all kinds of rocks and stuff thrown up
from the wheels would take it out?
I would say no, not crazy.
My Skoda Hatchback had an aftermarket air conditioner with the condensor &
fan at the front where the radiator would be, the compressor /clutch / 84VDC
motor mounted under the right rear passenger seat (where the gas tank would
be on the ICE version) and on top of that, the evaporator/fan cooling unit
mounted up on the ceiling in the back (since the car was not originally
air-conditioned). Long rubber hoses connected everything together,
including a pair passing underneath in the "tunnel". So it is definitely
doable to set it up with a long hose run. If you are not an AC expert, it
may be best to get the help of an experienced person/shop. I took this
system out when it needed a refill after about 8 years, since I preferred
the weight and space savings to paying to fix the cooling (in Montreal).
Best Regards,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 2:31 PM
Subject: need better layout under hood
300zx project
snip
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 10/17/2005 1:37:50 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< If someone who was KKK showed up and used racially charged derogatory
comments and name calling that is typical of their poor viewpoints of
African Americans and people of Jewish decent, there would be a huge
outcry and they would be shown the door without hesitation. >>
Wow...
as R. Lee says "Lighten up Francis" ;)
Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can make light of someone not caring enough about other people to be
diplomatic all you want.
I'm here to tell you, the abrasive people will deeply hurt a dicission list.
How many people will not participate? You won't even be aware becauce they
will quietly just not be interested any more. In some cases the group could
dwindle down to a half dozen or so members telling themselves how smart they
are. The group's "mission", its original purpose for being here won't be
important any more.
Do you want to further people' awareness? How can you when people just don't
care anymore to listen here?
Steve Sullivan
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: 10/15/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, Oct 17, 2005 at 05:33:01PM -0700, Eric Poulsen wrote:
>
> I think in any water cooling setup, you should at least have a flow
> sensor switch hooked up to an "idiot light" on your dash. This is
> probably more important than coolant temp, because the coolant temp will
> be just fine in the event of no flow (assuming you're measuring temp at
> the tank), or (for that matter) no coolant at all.
Is it true that the Zilla's have over temp detection? If they do, perhaps
you could hook that up to an idiot light. This would seem to be the ideal
place to monitor the effectiveness of your cooling right?
Although, I guess you can never have too much monitoring. :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don't know if it will help but one time on a Karmen Ghia I was doing a
custom AC for I mounted 2 seperate 3 row condensers inside the front fenders
below the headlights with a custom shroud on each and power fans pulling air
from a series of holes cut under the bumper. Piped them together with copper
line and hid the drier under the spare tire. On VW busses Mierline <sp> used
a large horizontally mounted STEEL condenser underneath the van, worked even
in AZ but was marginal. A power fan would have helped. Maybe something in
the package tray area? Freightliners use a nice wide, low serpentine
condenser you could put in a box. Would have to come up with a good intake
and exhaust path (side scoops, in one out the other?) but where there's a
will there's a way.
David Chapman
Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 11:31 AM
Subject: need better layout under hood
300zx project
I purchased 25 batteries but I only have 17 in right now. 13 in back
and 4 under the hood above the motor. I was planning on 8 more in front
but am having trouble fitting them in. If I get rid of my Air
Conditioning(AC) condensor I could easily get 6 batteries and probably
mount the zilla above them then fill the zilla hole with #7 and the
stock battery placement with #8. But Fresno is not known for cool
weather and AC is usually a must.
I hate to put any more in back because of weight distribution.
If I try to leave the AC I can't see getting more than 4 more up there.
Would it be crazy to locate the AC compressor and condensor with fan
under the car in back where the gas tank was? and just route the AC
hozes up the tunnel? I suppose all kinds of rocks and stuff thrown up
from the wheels would take it out?
Another idea would be to lay it down flat up front and make a cowel. or
find a shorter condensor that can be stood up, the 300 zx condensor and
radiator lay down at an angle crossing the opening and really uses up a
lot of space.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
This is a little off topic, but it does deal with motors and since there are
some pretty knowledgeable motor people here...
I have a Jet 14" band saw with a 1 HP motor. It is for wood and I have a pulley
attachment that lowers the speed down to about 1000 rpm, but it is still too
fast for cutting metal (I've already ruined 2 metal blades). I want to get a
Variable Frequency Drive. I understand that I can get one for about $150 and
that I'll also need a 3 phase motor. I have 1 phase, 120/240 VAC to my shop.
What are some good VFD's?
Thanks in advance.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I did see that, but it doesn't really describe what it's compatible with
-- Seems that most of the twist grip HE sensors simply take 5VDC and
output 0-5VDC WRT throttle position. Can anyone confirm?
Since the Zilla has 2 pot inputs, does that mean you provide the 5V and
run a single wire back to the zilla for pot input?
Andrew Letton wrote:
Actually, if you scroll down on this page:
http://cafeelectric.com/products/price/index.html
...you'll see that there is a Hall Effect Pedal Input option available
for the Hairball.
Andrew
Eric Poulsen wrote:
Nick Austin wrote:
2) Will any HE throttle work with a Zilla controller? Otmar? What
about these: http://www.electricscooterparts.com/throttles.html
They can emulate pots, so it seems like it should be possible.
Unfortunately, the Zilla requires a rheostat ...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have kept quiet about the various insults and rude comments over the past
year or so, but I am getting a little tired over how much time is spent on
this off topic subject, and thought I would chime in.
How are these insults and rude comments helping us to promote EVs? Not at
all.
There is no need to be gruff or rude. If a person cannot be civil, then
maybe they should leave this list and vent their comments on a forum
designed for such things.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ken Trough
Sent: October 17, 2005 1:36 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Civil discourse in the EVDL
I have no problem with John's opposing viewpoints, his anti-environmental
attitudes, nor his generally gruff demeanor. I simply take offense to the
name calling and derogatory personal comments and characterizations he makes
on a very regular basis. Some feel that this kind of behavior should be
tolerated in the name of diversity. I disagree. Differing viewpoints can
always be expressed in a civil manner. Those incapable of basic civility
should be excluded from the conversation.
And if someone wants to make a joke, it is a simple matter and an
established custom to put a smiley face or something to make sure people
understand the comments were not serious. In John's case they were.
If someone who was KKK showed up and used racially charged derogatory
comments and name calling that is typical of their poor viewpoints of
African Americans and people of Jewish decent, there would be a huge outcry
and they would be shown the door without hesitation.
John's constant name calling and belittlement of those with differing
opinions is no different fundamentally and no less insulting...
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM/YM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Neon John wrote:
On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:39:02 -0700, Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Seems like the best price/performance is to be had with the Swiftech
MCP-655 (Aka Liang D5). It's 12V, 1/2" barb connections. The only
moving part is the impeller which is magnetically coupled to an
electronic communtator. Think of a brushless DC motor where the rotor is
actually a pump impeller. There is only 1 wear point: a ceramic bead
bearing. You can see the internals of this pump here:
http://www.systemcooling.com/swiftech_mcp655-03.html
Near as I can tell, this is an industrial pump that's been repurposed
for CPU cooling.
Slick looking pump. I wish the temperature specs went a bit higher,
I'd have an application for hot water circulation. It should do a
good job in this application.
FWIW, Laing is actually "Laing Thermotech." They bill themselves as
"The Leader in Instant Hot Water Technology."
http://www.lainginc.com/
Google says products for sale here:
http://www.plumbersurplus.com/ProductList.aspx?Mfr=98
I think most of them are AC pumps.
Incidently, this pump is sold by the same folks (Swiftech) that make the
radiator in the liquid cooling package that Ryan is selling. FWIW, the
price of the cooling package that Ryan is selling is a good deal, even
if for the pump _alone_, which seems to retail for $130 to (more
typically) $170 to $200. If I didn't already have 80% of the parts in
the kit on order, I'd think of getting one myself.
I plugged "swiftech mcp655 pump" into google and the first result was
apparently a froogle search. The first three prices were all in the
$70 range. Quite reasonable for a pump like that.
My personal preference for automotive use, especially EVs, is brushed
motors for small loads because I think them to be more reliable than
BLDCs with all the electrical crap flying around an EV. Still I'd
give this one a try for the price.
I wonder what the Bosch unit is? What about electric fuel pumps or
electric radiator fans? I really have no idea, but I had assumed they
were brushless, simply because of the high duty cycle.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Zilla manual states:
"The heatsink has two 3/8" OD barbed fittings on the signal end of the
controller. Water flow direction does not matter. These fittings are
intentionally fragile, and also easily replaceable. They are plastic in
order to protect the copper heatsink from damage in case of abuse. In
case they need replacing, be sure to seal the threads with Teflon tape
and to pressure test the connections for leaks."
Am I wrong in assuming that the threaded ports are 1/4" NPT (tapered)
fittings?
Are the fittings your standard nylon 1/4" MNPT --> 3/8" barbed
fittings? Or are they something special to make them "intentionally
fragile"?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am using relays from cars for my EV. The nissan 300zx, and I am sure
many other cars, have a nice little box under the hood with 12V relays
in them
nissan has
grey DPST NO,NC
brown DPST NO,NO
black SPDT
blue SPST NO
They use 1/4 spade terminals and are sealed and the box is keyed to
accept blue type in blue holes if you want to get one of those for your EV.
They have the pin outs on the top but I have the book also
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I like to think "outside" the box... It has been my whole philosophy in the
project...no pun intended.
:-) Well maybe
Mark Ward
St. Charles, MO
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 8:51 PM
Subject: RE: Exide Floodeds vs AGM
That is an AWESOME idea. Until now I didnt even think of Rhino Lining my
battery boxes but now that you mention it that is an awesome way to
corrosion protect them. If you want an AGM battery with the same AH
capacity as the Trojan T105 try the Concorde Sunextender series. They are
a
bit pricey but they will give you the performance you are looking for AND
the range.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 10:09 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu; ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Exide Floodeds vs AGM
I know I have beat this horse to death already, but I need some more
opinions here.
I haven't committed totally to my choice of a battery pack. I have made
sure my battery box is capable of supporting and maintainence of either
AGM's or flooded, whichever I end up going with. Box is now finished
except
the Rhino coat on the inside and I am good to go on that.
I have heard a lot of pros and cons, the AGM's of course being a lot
better
on weight, delivered current, required maintenance, etc, downside
pickiness
on charging, extra cost intitially and pricey chargers, regulators, etc.
I have been looking at some Exide Stowaway batteries which would fit my
system, are priced well and readily available. Some are rated at 80ah.
Their big brothers are 105 and 200ah respectively. Of course the real big
ones are huge as well. Of course I know these AH ratings have a lot of
variables in how they are described.
So my question is....compared to AGM's which rate about 50ah, in the same
vehicle, won't any of the floodeds deliver better range at a sacrifice of
performance?
A lot of arguments are made both ways here about the low cost per mile on
floodies, the performance of AGM's, etc. In my case I already have some
losses due to my automatic transmission and won't want to end up with a
car
that only goes 10 miles on a charge. This won't do at all with the cost
of
the conversion. The cost per mile using AGM's seems a lot higher if part
of
your objective is beating the cost of gasoline. I need 20-25 miles
minimum.
The other factor is I can go with a Zivan charger, which was my initial
choice and no big hassles other than the periodic maintenance required.
Mark Ward
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi David,
I have used the Robin Subaru EX21 210cm3 7.5HP (chain driven overhead cam)
gasoline engine turning an eCycle MG1A-30 or MG1A-36 BLDC motor/generator
fed into a 3-phase bridge rectifier. This provides about 4.5KW of DC
directly at the battery pack voltage (84 or 96V in my case).
I have also built a more powerful DC generator using a Honda GX-670 V-twin
24HP gasoline engine and a larger eCycle unit and 3-phase bridge. This one
produces about 13KW of DC output. When it is needed, for example, on the
highway on a longer trip, I turn on the key switch and press the start
button on the control/meters panel, in the cab of the mini pickup, as I am
driving. This start-stop control could be done automatically, but the
generator is not used often enough to make this worthwhile for me,
considering how easy and convenient it is for me to control manually when
and where it is used.
I would certainly look at the Robin Subaru V-twin engines for a larger
generator, considering the quality that I have seen in the EX series of
singles up to 9HP. I like the idea of a Diesel engine fueled by bio-Diesel,
but could not accomodate the higher weight.
Best Regards,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 7:54 PM
Subject: Backup generator or true hybrid
I have my converted Diahatsu running again now. The clutch friction
plate spline had been chewed out by the gearbox input shaft. There was
only about 40% engagement of the spline.
The decision I have now is whether to have a backup generator or a true
hybrid. If backup, a cheap & nasty inefficient set may be used but if
true hybrid I have a 400cm3 Robbins Diesel I may use. What have others
on the list used?
David
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can try a router speed control. I used it on my drill press to lower
the speed below the 600 rpm speed it had. It works to about 50% then it
will not slow it down any further. It had no effect on power for my use. I
got it for $25 on northerntool.com
Jody
-----Original Message-----
From: Rush [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 11:48 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: OT - Variable Freq Drive needed
Hi all,
This is a little off topic, but it does deal with motors and since there are
some pretty knowledgeable motor people here...
I have a Jet 14" band saw with a 1 HP motor. It is for wood and I have a
pulley attachment that lowers the speed down to about 1000 rpm, but it is
still too fast for cutting metal (I've already ruined 2 metal blades). I
want to get a Variable Frequency Drive. I understand that I can get one for
about $150 and that I'll also need a 3 phase motor. I have 1 phase, 120/240
VAC to my shop. What are some good VFD's?
Thanks in advance.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Same here on my 1980 VoltsRabbit. I'm going up and down hills
all the time. You get used to it. But now that I have the
vacuum assist scene working, I'm much happier with power brakes.
Makes me wonder about doing power steering for low speeds, but
that's a whole 'nother can-of-worms... sigh...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 4:37 AM
Subject: Re: 1980 Rabbit vacuum or not?
>
> Due to a faulty relay, I used the 1981 VoltsRabbit w/o
> power brakes. It took quite a bit of muscle, but was
> do-able.
> I wanted the wife to accept it, and to be safe in all
> situations, so I repaired the relay.
> peace,
>
> --- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > I wonder if anyone has converted a 1980 Rabbit and
> > not had to use a brake
> > vacuum booster. Can it be retrofit to just plain
> > hydrolics????? I think
> > this was the era when vacuum brakes were just coming
> > in strong. Just a few
> > years earlier most cars didn't use it. My 72 1200
> > didn't. My 1980 Courier
> > doesn't. Can it be modified? In other words lose
> > the vacuum pump.
> > Lawrence Rhodes
> > Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> > Reedmaker
> > Book 4/5 doubler
> > Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> > 415-821-3519
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
>
>
> '92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
> www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
> ____
> __/__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the
steering wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
--- End Message ---
