EV Digest 4831
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) unsubscribe
by "electric" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Prestolite 36v motors on Ebay
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Why Le Car makes a great EV
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Ampabout ... a bad thing turned good
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Conversion Market Value Proof Needed
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) "Zero" Mower and "Orange Juice" on featured display at East Coast electric
Expo next week
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) RE: Zilla cooling
by "Christopher Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Low loss lubricant for EV gearbox
by "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Backup generator or true hybrid - engine weight
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Ampabout ... a bad thing turned good
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) How to use a PFC75 at home
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Low loss lubricant for EV gearbox
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: The big one.Comments.
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Low loss lubricant for EV gearbox
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Prestolite 36v motors on Ebay
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Cogeneration natural gas on-board an EV...?!
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Why Le Car makes a great EV.....Rabbits are better, though
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Low loss lubricant for EV gearbox
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Re: Cogeneration natural gas on-board an EV...?!
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Ampabout ... a bad thing turned good
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Re: Backup generator or true hybrid
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Backup generator or true hybrid
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Why Le Car makes a great EV
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Fast Charging was: The Big One
by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
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--- Begin Message ---
If you need an adapter to put into it try moser www.moser.com engineering.
They make axle shafts for 9" ford rear ends of any side and spline count. I
bet they could make anything you would need to adapt the shaft.
-----Original Message-----
From: David Chapman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 2:47 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Prestolite 36v motors on Ebay
Large (approx 9" dia and long) and heavy (100 lbs) and the real deal breaker
is the female spline output. Not easy or cheap to work around unless you
have a machine shop handy. That said I wonder how tough or expensive it
would be to have the motor guy (Jim H) on the list re-shaft this piece?
Practical? Jim, any input on this?
David Chapman
Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Dodrill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 7:15 PM
Subject: Prestolite 36v motors on Ebay
>I saw these Prestolite 36v motors on Ebay (item #7555041764, for example),
> part # A200199-00, 10.4 HP at 333 amps. No weight given.
> Would this be suitable for an electric motorcycle?
>
> --
> Mark
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The fact that it gets 48MPG mainly...that's an impressive figure. Mine
probably would get 24MPG because I have to use almost all of my strength
to push it in the concrete garage (sigh). Thankfully, 'Little Homebrew
AC' has been upgraded from the ICE so now it gets ? Wh/mile.
(The California version had a 2HP dent in the normal 60HP rating, so
that probably helped somewhat for the 48MPG figure.)
The LeCar is fun to drive...and I love the moonroof (romantic!).
---
For those curious here is my EV-Album link...the video is of it running
on 120V (despite the filename) but before vector control was
implemented:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/532.html
My Renault went on the road for the first time in four years this
summer, finally on AC power. My personal website has a few statistics:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/awmatt/rengen.html
Currently the 50kW (peak power) inverter is in its tenth iteration and
its fifth complete redesign. The redesign has half the volume of the
present inverter and the three-phase section measures only
6"x11"x2" (possibly excluding a fan).
- Arthur
On Tue, 2005-10-18 at 22:56 -0700, Tom Shay wrote:
> Tell us why Le Cars were good EVs. I've always believed that Le Car was a
> sorry example of a car both in ICE and EV form. Maybe I was wrong.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>;
> "electric_vehicles_for_sale Moderator"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 11:05 AM
> Subject: Why Le Car makes a great EV
>
>
> >I wondered why Le Cars were good EV's. I really didn't think much of them.
> >Now I know. Lawrence Rhodes.
> >
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1980-Renault-Le-Car-LeCAR-R5-48MPG-BEAUTIFUL-50PIX-NR_W0QQitemZ4582840867QQcategoryZ6385QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
> > Lawrence Rhodes
> > Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> > Reedmaker
> > Book 4/5 doubler
> > Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> > 415-821-3519
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had mentioned that I was planning to go to Alameda for an event
in the USS Hornet. Sunday I pumped up my tires to 42 psi. These
tires are rated at 32psi, and I was taking a chance I would not
lose my seal.
Monday morning, I backed out to drive my EV to work, and it felt
like I had a flat. Yup, my right rear was flat. I had no time to
do anything about it and bicycled into work.
I do not carry a spare or a jack. I have not had a need in many
years. I have two cans of 'spare-tire' and a towing road service
plan. In this case, the cans of spare tire would not do me any
good as it looked like the seal was gone.
I would have to make time after work to tow it in to where I
bought the tires and likely have to replace the tire if they
could not get a good seal on that tire.
With all the other items I have to do, that would take too much
time on Monday, so I called my manager and took him up on his offer
to carpool in Alameda.
Tuesday, I bicycled to a site that my ride knew, thus making it
easier for them to find me. As we took Hwy 101 North, connecting
to Hwy 92 East, I was feeling like I really wanted to do this trip
myself driving my EV up over Hwy 92's bridge over the SF bay (that
the flat had kept me from doing this).
We rendezvoused with my manager, and all piled into his sedan,
going North on Hwy 880. As we drove I thought this is odd to
carpool if there wasn't a carpool lane to use on this part of 880.
I think it was more my manager wanted to show up with 'his' people.
My manager's planning had us arrive at the USS Hornet an hour
early. So I sweet-talked him into going to the old Calstart
Hangar 20 EV charging station (the station I would have charged
at had I not gotten a flat).
The charger had no power. Someone likely turned off the power
thinking they were saving money. So even if I had driven my EV,
I would no have been able to charge a that location as I had
planned to.
We went back to USS Hornet and did the event. Again my manager
was wrong about the event starting time and we had to wait two
hours for it to begin. After it was over, it was brisk drive back
to Hayward.
Went we switched from my manager sedan to my co-worker's SUV, I
sweet-talked him into first stopping over at Chabot College
before heading over the bridge. We found both the tal 2000 spi
inductive and the evi-200c conductive AVCON had no power. Some
one had turned the power off on these chargers as well (to save
money no doubt).
So, I suppose it was an act of God that gave me the flat, so I
would have not been stuck in either location, and then been the
brunt of a large joke because I drive Electric.
I have already reported both charging locations to
evchargernews.com and alerted my East SF Bay EAA contact.
Hopefully the site will reflect that the chargers are down and
no one gets stuck, and the East Bay person can get these chargers
turned back on.
It is going to be a lot of work to keep vigil on keeping these
public EV chargers on. The price of electricity is going up, but
the powers that be do not understand that the amount of power
actually used by these public EV charging stations is very low and
they are no saving money by turning these chargers off.
ta
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My 86 Ford Escort EV was considered totalled after the car was
broadsided in a parking lot a couple years ago.
GEICO declared it total loss and was going to send me a check for
$1500. They told me the damage was worth more then the value of the car.
I told them the car was worth way more then $1500 because of all the
electric components so GEICO told me to prove it. They wanted be to
find similar cars that were for sale.
So I went to EV List photo album and found every Electric Ford Escort
for sale that I could find and sent them the URLs for each one. All
were at least $5000 or more.
They said that was proof enough and they cut me a check for $2500 to
cover the damages. I did some of the work myself and installed a new
door and took it to a body shop and they straightened out the quarter
panel and repainted the whole car.
So the insurance company layed the burden of proof on me to prove its
value. Thanks to Mike's Photo Album I was able to gather enough proof.
Chip Gribben
Roger Stockton wrote:
Steve Gaarder [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think John's reply assumes that *your* insurance is paying for the
car. This may depend on the state, but I believe that
if the *other driver* is at fault, they (and their insurance)
are legally liable for the *actual loss* to you.
I'm expect there may be variations from state to state, but suspect John
is correct, even though the other driver's insurance is paying your
loss. Their insurance company will look at what coverage *you* had
(i.e. what is the value that *you* placed on your vehicle) in
determining your loss.
Clearly, it would be unreasonable to expect someone else's insurance to
pay you a greater amount than you had the vehicle insured for.
My wife encountered this problem when her car was struck in a parking
lot; her car had a custom paint job and the insurance company would not
pay for anything more than a standard paint repair since she had not
purchased insurance coverage for the additional vlaue of the custom
paint job, even though the other driver was entirely at fault and their
insurance was paying for the repair.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If anyone in the Philadelphia area is interested in the "Zero" mower or
our newly rebuilt Orange Juice dragster with 12 of the most powerful
Lemco motors ever, they will both be on featured display at the East
Coast Electric Expo October 26-27 in King of Prussia, PA. Admission is
free. To register go to www.eap.org and follow the links to the show. I
tried to get them to let us do burnouts in the parking area but got a
big "I don't think so". The show hrs are very convenient, 2-8pm. Stop
by and say Hi.
Shawn Lawless
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ralph Merwin wrote:
> My Prizm has a Z1k and a 156v pack of Optima Yellow Top buddy pairs,
one
> of Metric Mind's Bosch pumps and an "RV Coolant Overflow Tank" that
holds
> about 1/2 gallon of water. No radiator yet. No space for a larger
tank.
>
> I've taken some 10 mile trips on days with "shirtsleeve" weather, and
the
> water in the tank gets mildly warm. This tells me that the system
needs
> a radiator to handle longer trips and/or warmer weather.
Lots of discussion on this, but some have missed a basic concept.
If you're drag racing, you don't need a radiator. Just a large enough
volume of water to absorb the heat from a run. Then it cools down
between runs. This is not a steady-state system.
In a road-going EV you either need a radiator or enough water to absorb
all the heat you can generate on a charge without overheating the
controller. Depending on your vehicle and conditions, that could be a
*lot* of water.
My advice for road EVs is to use a radiator. (The heater core you took
out is a handy, effective and cheap solution.) Don't bother with a
reservoir at all. (You probably don't have room for it anyway. ;^)
Make sure your plumbing allows you to fill the system without trapping
air, and that any bubbles can rise to an area not in the flow (like a
short length of tubing for a fill neck. Remember you're not going to
have huge swings in temperature like an ICE system, so expansion isn't
really an issue.
Having only a few ounces of fluid means you reach equilibrium
temperature quicker. That's all. The radiator (assuming it's big
enough) is what keeps things cool, not the volume of water. About the
only benefit from a reservoir is that you can go longer with a leak in
your system before you run dry.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I contacted BP about a suitable low loss lubricant for my Daihatsu
gearbox. The suggestion was to use autotransmission fluid. Anybody done
this? I will do a before & after post about this if your postings are
not adverse.
David
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: "'ev@listproc.sjsu.edu'" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: RE: Backup generator or true hybrid
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 19:44:58 -0400
but heavy as all get out. Most car engines weigh close to 600 pounds with
all the crap on them. Maybe if you used a water cooled motorcycle motor
that would be less weight.
Not all car engines are that heavy. I weighed the engine I took out of my
Echo - it was 169 lbs. I was surprised ( and disappointed) at the time at
how light it was. It's the same block as the Prius - with different valve
timing, and probably some other small differences.
That weight included the intake and exhaust manifolds and flywheel. You
would have to add the computer (about 2 pounds) and the radiator ( 10 lbs)
and a few other things. But, you'd probably end up not much over 200 pounds
total.
It's a 1.5 liter, 96 HP engine. This was a car with an original curb weight
of 1980#. It would have plenty of power for any on-board generator- even
for a much larger car.
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to
get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bruce -
I'm not sure what you mean by "losing the seal". Was there a leak between
the tire and the rim? If so, would that permanenly ruin the tire?
I've only had that type of leak happen once - it was a low leak, and it was
because of a badly rusted rim. I would have guessed that the extra pressure
would make the seal between the tire and rim more secure.
Do you think that putting 42 psi in your tire caused this leak? Did the
extra pressure somehow make the tire fail some other way? 42 psi can't be
very much above the sidewall pressure. I've never seen a sidewall pressure
lower than 35 psi.
Phil
From: bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: evlist <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Ampabout ... a bad thing turned good
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 00:53:26 -0700 (PDT)
I had mentioned that I was planning to go to Alameda for an event
in the USS Hornet. Sunday I pumped up my tires to 42 psi. These
tires are rated at 32psi, and I was taking a chance I would not
lose my seal.
Monday morning, I backed out to drive my EV to work, and it felt
like I had a flat. Yup, my right rear was flat. I had no time to
do anything about it and bicycled into work.
I do not carry a spare or a jack. I have not had a need in many
years. I have two cans of 'spare-tire' and a towing road service
plan. In this case, the cans of spare tire would not do me any
good as it looked like the seal was gone.
I would have to make time after work to tow it in to where I
bought the tires and likely have to replace the tire if they
could not get a good seal on that tire.
With all the other items I have to do, that would take too much
time on Monday, so I called my manager and took him up on his offer
to carpool in Alameda.
Tuesday, I bicycled to a site that my ride knew, thus making it
easier for them to find me. As we took Hwy 101 North, connecting
to Hwy 92 East, I was feeling like I really wanted to do this trip
myself driving my EV up over Hwy 92's bridge over the SF bay (that
the flat had kept me from doing this).
We rendezvoused with my manager, and all piled into his sedan,
going North on Hwy 880. As we drove I thought this is odd to
carpool if there wasn't a carpool lane to use on this part of 880.
I think it was more my manager wanted to show up with 'his' people.
My manager's planning had us arrive at the USS Hornet an hour
early. So I sweet-talked him into going to the old Calstart
Hangar 20 EV charging station (the station I would have charged
at had I not gotten a flat).
The charger had no power. Someone likely turned off the power
thinking they were saving money. So even if I had driven my EV,
I would no have been able to charge a that location as I had
planned to.
We went back to USS Hornet and did the event. Again my manager
was wrong about the event starting time and we had to wait two
hours for it to begin. After it was over, it was brisk drive back
to Hayward.
Went we switched from my manager sedan to my co-worker's SUV, I
sweet-talked him into first stopping over at Chabot College
before heading over the bridge. We found both the tal 2000 spi
inductive and the evi-200c conductive AVCON had no power. Some
one had turned the power off on these chargers as well (to save
money no doubt).
So, I suppose it was an act of God that gave me the flat, so I
would have not been stuck in either location, and then been the
brunt of a large joke because I drive Electric.
I have already reported both charging locations to
evchargernews.com and alerted my East SF Bay EAA contact.
Hopefully the site will reflect that the chargers are down and
no one gets stuck, and the East Bay person can get these chargers
turned back on.
It is going to be a lot of work to keep vigil on keeping these
public EV chargers on. The price of electricity is going up, but
the powers that be do not understand that the amount of power
actually used by these public EV charging stations is very low and
they are no saving money by turning these chargers off.
ta
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What about as a dump pack controller.
solar,grid and wind charge a underground bunker of submarine batteries.
then you pull up and plug into the 75 while you zip into the house and
change clothes. It will be charged before you are ready.
I assume your isolation is not based on 60hz?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Honda, (long known for using low-loss the whole way
along the drivetrain), uses a special fluid in their
trannies. I believe it is called MTX, but I could be
wrong about the name.
If that's what I was looking for, that's what I'd
use...
--- djsharpe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I contacted BP about a suitable low loss lubricant
> for my Daihatsu
> gearbox. The suggestion was to use autotransmission
> fluid. Anybody done
> this? I will do a before & after post about this if
> your postings are
> not adverse.
> David
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: The big one.
> Looks cool! What's it for? ;)
> Seriously, I've heard you mention it a few times but I don't know why
> you're doing it. Super fast charging?
> -Mike
>
> On 10/18/05, Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Geek lilsters...
> >
> > Most of you know that I am in the design and test proccess of building a
> > 75Kw charger.
> >
> > I have to becarfull of what I say and show the whole world.
> > Hi EVerybody;
What's it good for? Ha Ha! Think of how many "Carfuls" That Bad Boy can
do in an hour!! Not calling it a bad boy, just sorta slipped out.<g>! But if
a few key "Gas" Stations, the "pump over there "setup. An Amtrak, coach to
coach, type plug -it-in, ya stop for a cup of coffee and a paper, and get
most of yur juice back, In MINUTES! This could make EVery EV a practical
daily driver. This is if it happens rather quickly, the cutoff of gas
supplies, do to politics or just it-just-runs-out, seneriao. Probably gas
stations/inconvenience stores, the BIG ones, Sheetz, Mobil Marts, come to
mind, are wired for 3 faze 480, in lavish amounts, anyhow.
If that happens Rich would have more orders than he could deal with,
couldn't happen to a nicer guy<g>!
Charging [EMAIL PROTECTED] amps
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Used a Full Synthetic Extreme Duty High/Low Temperature Rate Gear Oil, which
the oil companies developed for the machines at the north slopes. This type of
oil is now available in all types of grades for engines, transmission and axils
at any auto parts store.
In 1975, Conoco was one of the first to develop a Polar Grade that I used in
the transmission standard gear boxes and differentials. It was just like
automatic transmission fluid.
At that time, it was recommended if the gear boxes had standard gear oil in
it, that you clean out the oil and replace all the gaskets and seals before you
add the Polar Grade. Today, you might be able to add some of this synthetic
oil with no other adjustments.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: djsharpe<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 6:52 AM
Subject: Low loss lubricant for EV gearbox
I contacted BP about a suitable low loss lubricant for my Daihatsu
gearbox. The suggestion was to use autotransmission fluid. Anybody done
this? I will do a before & after post about this if your postings are
not adverse.
David
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes I could reshaft those Prestolites. The biggest deal would be in getting
the armature to me via UPS. Then there is the extra cost of the shaft and then
a little cost in me pressing the new shaft into the armature. Not to bad but
would increase the costs and time to use this motor. It would be very doable
though. Anyone interested just let me know.
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
"Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
If you need an adapter to put into it try moser www.moser.com engineering.
They make axle shafts for 9" ford rear ends of any side and spline count. I
bet they could make anything you would need to adapt the shaft.
-----Original Message-----
From: David Chapman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 2:47 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Prestolite 36v motors on Ebay
Large (approx 9" dia and long) and heavy (100 lbs) and the real deal breaker
is the female spline output. Not easy or cheap to work around unless you
have a machine shop handy. That said I wonder how tough or expensive it
would be to have the motor guy (Jim H) on the list re-shaft this piece?
Practical? Jim, any input on this?
David Chapman
Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Dodrill"
To: "EV List"
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 7:15 PM
Subject: Prestolite 36v motors on Ebay
>I saw these Prestolite 36v motors on Ebay (item #7555041764, for example),
> part # A200199-00, 10.4 HP at 333 amps. No weight given.
> Would this be suitable for an electric motorcycle?
>
> --
> Mark
>
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Guys, like many of you, I'm looking for residential,
clean electricity. Check out the cogen system that
Honda will allegedly soon be marketing with a
Mass.-bassed company at: http://www.climateenergy.com/
The point is, some of us thought microturbines would
be on wheels awhile back, and it hasn't happened.
Wouldn't it be cool to have one of these boxes (about
the size of a trash compactor), plus of course a
natural gas pressure tank powering it? Of course it
limits a converter to an SUV or truck.
Specs are 1kW continuous output, AC. Either we
rectify it and store it in batteries on-board, adding
to payload, or we take the straight AC and drive an AC
motor. Wonder how this unit would respond to
increased loads...
I'd imagine I'm seriously missing something, or Honda
would've already been there, done that...
As always, thanks in advance for your insight!
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Yahoo! Music Unlimited
Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>;
"electric_vehicles_for_sale Moderator"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 2:05 PM
Subject: Why Le Car makes a great EV
> I wondered why Le Cars were good EV's. I really didn't think much of
them.
> Now I know. Lawrence Rhodes.
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1980-Renault-Le-Car-LeCAR-R5-48MPG-BEAUTIFUL-50PIX-NR_W0QQitemZ4582840867QQcategoryZ6385QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Hi All;
I took a look, too. Sigh! Wish ya could find Rabbits that clean,
ANYWHERE. They are a better deal for a conversion, parts are easy, easy to
upgrade to beefier VW stuff. Darn sturdy body, as I have mine maxed out to
3100 lbs, without any structural failure, although Rust-o-Matic is taking
it's toll. Around the damn windshield and the drivers side, only, rocker
panels. Pass. sode is clean, go figure??
To comment on the Rabbit theme about vacuum brakes. Was hoping somebody
had a nice probable smaller bore Master cylinder bolt in for a Rabbit. Would
love to pitch the vacuum booster and the belted to the motor Rabbit Diseasel
Vacuum pump. But it has worked well for years. I DID drive it at first
without the boost, you sorta get used to it, but still..you COULD get used
to an outhouse if you HAD to<g>! The booster sure was nice, when I got it
going again. So I have just left it all in place. A safety thing I feel I
could stop quicker with the boost, I HAD done panic stops, but I probably
put two zillion lbs pressure on the brake pedal in a panic mode! Big guy,
not for EVerybody!
Seeya
Bob
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--- Begin Message ---
<<<<Used a Full Synthetic Extreme Duty High/Low Temperature Rate Gear Oil, which
the oil companies developed for the machines at the north slopes. This type of
oil
is now available in all types of grades for engines, transmission and axils at
any auto parts store.
In 1975, Conoco was one of the first to develop a Polar Grade that I used in the
transmission standard gear boxes and differentials. It was just like automatic
transmission fluid.
At that time, it was recommended if the gear boxes had standard gear oil in it,
that you clean out the oil and replace all the gaskets and seals before you add
the Polar Grade. Today, you might be able to add some of this synthetic oil
with no other adjustments.>>>>
Is this the lowest friction lube you can use, or only the most temp-tolerant?
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--- Begin Message ---
On 10/19/05, Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Guys, like many of you, I'm looking for residential,
> clean electricity. Check out the cogen system that
> Honda will allegedly soon be marketing with a
> Mass.-bassed company at: http://www.climateenergy.com/
>
> Specs are 1kW continuous output, AC. Either we
> rectify it and store it in batteries on-board, adding
> to payload, or we take the straight AC and drive an AC
> motor. Wonder how this unit would respond to
> increased loads...
>
> I'd imagine I'm seriously missing something, or Honda
> would've already been there, done that...
I think you're missing something. The point of cogeneration is that
you get the electricity as a "free" side effect of burning the gas for
heating (or vice versa). If you're throwing the heat away, as you
will if you put this in a car, you will end up with an inefficient and
heavy genset.
Better to use put this unit in your home, as it's intended. If it's
on the same meter as your EV, you can even say it's charging it :)
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--- Begin Message ---
<<<<
Do you think that putting 42 psi in your tire caused this leak? Did the
extra pressure somehow make the tire fail some other way? 42 psi can't be
very much above the sidewall pressure. I've never seen a sidewall pressure
lower than 35 psi.
>>>>
I ran my Ranger's tires ~60psi and didn't have appreciable leakage or excessive
treadwear...but I've been told that was "dangerous" - handling and braking
seemed the same as at rated pressure, so I don't know if it would be a problem
or not (still waiting to hear from Blue Sky about getting one back).
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--- Begin Message ---
A driveable generator is my goal for infinate range. I'd like to use
propane or biodiesel. Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 9:46 PM
Subject: RE: Backup generator or true hybrid
Johns very knowledgeable dissertation as always is good reading. However
I was also wondering if anybody played with a "get you home" backup
generator, perhaps powering the battery directly.
My next drive is going to have a motor shaft extension to an engage able
clutch to start a small Diesel to drive directly the transmission. The
motor will have to be compound to allow charging (neutral axis
accepting)
Incidentally next time I go to the States Ill go to John's restaurant
if vegetarians will not starve there.
David
Electric Diahatsu & Prius 04 (like the Daihatsu more though)
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Neon John
Sent: Wednesday, 19 October 2005 12:51 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Backup generator or true hybrid
On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 17:32:46 -0700, "Lawrence Rhodes"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
10KW at 120VDC is 83A. at 144VDC is 69A.
Of course you won't quite get that much unless you use something like
a
PFC50 charger (w/Buck Enhancement?).
I'm a little confused. I thought all you need to produce power on the
fly
is an alternator or generator & something to spin it. Are you saying
you
need a controller of some sort to dish out the power? If so why use a
charger? Maybe a controller is more suitable. Lawrence Rhodes......
An engine generator without any controls is the fueled equivalent of a
Bad Boy Charger. You can roughly control the charge voltage and
current by varying the engine throttle but the same problems the Bad
Boy has exists because there is no active control.
If you use a wound field generator then a simple low power regulator
can be used. The regulator senses the output voltage and controls the
field to maintain that voltage - just like a regular car alternator.
In fact, with some scaling resistors, a car alternator regulator could
be used pretty much as-is or at most, driving a higher voltage pass
transistor to drive the field if the field voltage is over about 50
volts.
For a PM generator, the options are a) a series regulator -
effectively what a PFC50 would be, b) phase angle rectification
control using SCRs instead of diodes in the bridge (assumes a
brushless alternator) or c) closed loop throttle control. In the
latter, the output voltage is sensed and the controller manipulates
the throttle to maintain the setpoint.
Option c) is the easiest to implement from scratch because there are
no high power or high voltage electronics involved. It also has the
advantage of running the engine at the slowest possible speed for any
given situation and thus minimizing noise and fuel consumption. During
the later stages of charging when the current is greatly reduced from
the bulk stage, the engine runs at slow speed. This is the approach I
took with my Cordless Battery Charger.
There are two major methods of effecting control - direct throttle
manipulation or governor setpoint manipulation. Direct throttle
control is more complex because one must also measure and control the
actual engine RPM for good transient response and to prevent stalling
or runaway at the edges. The software is complex - multiple control
loops are involved - and the processor must be fast since this is a
real time, high bandwidth control situation.
Governor setpoint manipulation control is vastly simpler. With this
architecture, the controller only has to generate a speed demand
signal to the engine's mechanical governor. The mechanical governor
manipulates the throttle to maintain the called-for speed. The
processing demands are minimal. A BASIC Stamp will do the job with
plenty of room to spare. All it has to do is monitor the output
voltage and send a low bandwidth signal to the governor. A single
simple PID loop will do the trick.
The mechanical governor works by balancing the force generated by a
centrifugal element against a spring. The spring tension is varied to
vary the speed. The controller varies the "spring" force to vary the
speed. I've used two different approaches.
The first approach uses a small stepper motor with a drum mounted on
the shaft winding up small diameter aircraft cable. The other end of
the cable is connected to an actual spring. The stepper turns and
winds up the cable, stretching the spring, delivering more force to
the governor to demand more speed. This works quite well but is a bit
mechanically complicated and the component cost is a bit high.
The second approach is to use a long stroke solenoid to deliver force
directly to the governor arm. The magnetic field is the spring. The
solenoid is driven with a PWM signal to vary the current, thus the
magnetic field and thus the "spring" force.
This is a direct and very low cost method of control but the software
is a bit more complicated because the solenoid's force is a very
non-linear function of the plunger position inside the solenoid.
A couple of disadvantages include higher power required from the
controller output and the fact that the highest power input to the
solenoid comes during cranking when the throttle is held wide open.
This latter is mainly a problem limited to my CBC because it requires
the CBC to have a larger battery. A stepper would simply be driven to
the WOT position and held in place at low current.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
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--- Begin Message ---
Anybody figured out how AC Propulsion got by with an alternator & a 700cc
motorcycle motor. That's Long Ranger the infinite range extender trailer.
Lawrence Rhodes...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: Backup generator or true hybrid
simple the charger is the one that keeps the batteries in line, and varies
the power to them.
The Genset feeds the charger, and the charger acts as battery pack gate
keeper.
Also... and this is a big one... Using Dumb rectifiers and a single phase
charger is making a 3rd world charger with NO Power factor control.
You end up wasting over 1/2 the power that the gen set is capable of.
Just
like a rectifier and a bucket of water and a really hot extention cord.
So to get the 15 Kw of real power delivered to the pack needs about 30kw
of
generator, and LOTS of cooling.
I have seen this kill a generator, and leave everybody wondering why it's
so
noisey and you get so little range addition.
I have also seen this trick done with 2 PFC20 Betas liquid cooled and
air cooled and had a guy drive a 10Kw Honda Genset to Portland and back.
So... your results may vary...The more PFC you can get and the total
system
Eff is a really big thing to getting better range.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: Backup generator or true hybrid
>
> 10KW at 120VDC is 83A. at 144VDC is 69A.
> Of course you won't quite get that much unless you use something like a
> PFC50 charger (w/Buck Enhancement?).
I'm a little confused. I thought all you need to produce power on the
fly
is an alternator or generator & something to spin it. Are you saying you
need a controller of some sort to dish out the power? If so why use a
charger? Maybe a controller is more suitable. Lawrence Rhodes......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
49mpg says it all. Sorry to base it that way but real mpg doesn't lie. It
always translates into longer range. That's usually my criteria in
selecting an EV. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: Why Le Car makes a great EV
Tell us why Le Cars were good EVs. I've always believed that Le Car was a
sorry example of a car both in ICE and EV form. Maybe I was wrong.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>;
"electric_vehicles_for_sale Moderator"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 11:05 AM
Subject: Why Le Car makes a great EV
I wondered why Le Cars were good EV's. I really didn't think much of
them. Now I know. Lawrence Rhodes.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1980-Renault-Le-Car-LeCAR-R5-48MPG-BEAUTIFUL-50PIX-NR_W0QQitemZ4582840867QQcategoryZ6385QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The subject of a 75kw charger segues into a related topic--
Are there costs/effects of fast charging in terms of battery life?
Is there an optimal charge-acceptance-rate, for battery bank longevity
and/or performance? The CAR is a function of internal resistance right?
At any point in a charge, you can be generating more heat than ions, if
you're trying to pour a jillion amps into your bucket.
Is there a need to "rest" batteries after a charge? Does this contribute
to SOH, or only optimize immediate (that day's) performance? Do
dragsters rest their banks after making a deposit?
Is anybody using a Level 3 charger and really flowing some amps?
Finally, for those battery makers who don't publish CAR info, is there a
correlation between discharge rates and charge-acceptance? Can I use a
discharge chart to estimate a CAR?
Regards,
Jim Davis
Bob Rice wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: The big one.
Looks cool! What's it for? ;)
Seriously, I've heard you mention it a few times but I don't know why
you're doing it. Super fast charging?
-Mike
On 10/18/05, Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Geek lilsters...
Most of you know that I am in the design and test proccess of building a
75Kw charger.
I have to becarfull of what I say and show the whole world.
Hi EVerybody;
What's it good for? Ha Ha! Think of how many "Carfuls" That Bad Boy can
do in an hour!! Not calling it a bad boy, just sorta slipped out.<g>! But if
a few key "Gas" Stations, the "pump over there "setup. An Amtrak, coach to
coach, type plug -it-in, ya stop for a cup of coffee and a paper, and get
most of yur juice back, In MINUTES! This could make EVery EV a practical
daily driver. This is if it happens rather quickly, the cutoff of gas
supplies, do to politics or just it-just-runs-out, seneriao. Probably gas
stations/inconvenience stores, the BIG ones, Sheetz, Mobil Marts, come to
mind, are wired for 3 faze 480, in lavish amounts, anyhow.
If that happens Rich would have more orders than he could deal with,
couldn't happen to a nicer guy<g>!
Charging [EMAIL PROTECTED] amps
Seeya
Bob
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