EV Digest 4832
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Sunrise Report. Or..... " Where's Jerry?"
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Zombie's Last Chance for the 11's this Friday Night
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Backup generator or true hybrid
by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Ampabout ... a bad thing turned good
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Low loss lubricant for EV gearbox
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Low loss lubricant for EV gearbox
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Why Le Car makes a great EV
by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: The big one.
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Fast Charging was: The Big One
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Backup generator or true hybrid
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: The big one.
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Backup generator or true hybrid
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: How to use a PFC75 at home
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: The big one.Comments.
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) PFC75 vs a Controller as Charger
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Fast Charging was: The Big One
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Zombie's Last Chance for the 11's this Friday Night
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: "Zero" Mower and "Orange Juice" on featured display at East Coast
electric Expo next week
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Exide Floodeds vs AGM
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Backup generator or true hybrid
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: "Zero" Mower and "Orange Juice" on featured display at East Coast
electric
Expo next week
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Sunrise Fans;
A Update for the Jerry's trip to CT. Jerry "arrived" in the NYC area on
Friday, within view of the Enpire State Building in NYC the poor old Suzuki
bike sed "I'm All Done" He glided into a Cumins Engine service center, on
Howard Ave in Newark, NY, only about 110 miles to go. The Good Folks there
took pity on him, after all it WAS raining off and on, saw his FLA tags and
let him stash the rig inside the fenced off area for the weakend.It had been
RAINING on the Least Coast for .oh, about `10 daze or MORE!
Jerry hopped on a train, guy there was nice enough to run him over to the
train station, he called me from Penn Station, deep in Amtrak Land. " Well.,
I sez , go talk to the train folks there, find one to New Haven, I'll come
down and collect ya" Two hours later Jerry arrives, and we FINALLY meet in
real time. With the Newark place closed for the weakend, retreaval of the
bike and trailer was out til monday. So Jerry could chill out here rest up
for the next weels adventure! Well, no rest for the weary! called up the
folks at Solectria/Asure and it was OK to come up and check out the chassis
moulds and pick up my Force motor that went with the car I had trailered
home with the Sunrise body a few weaks ago.With many windows busted out the
Force has been living in my garage safe and dry. or til I find a Metro doner
car for a drivers door rear deck and drivers side window, cute little car!
Needs a heap of lovin' though<g>!
Gave James Worden a shout on the fone, OK to come over and meet a
Sunrise on the hoof. Wanted to get Jerry a "After" look on what it CAN be,
as James has a working , completed Sunrise. The usual; Sunrise, Jerry Liked,
woulda been the understatement of the week<g> EVerybody that sees a finished
one, likes it!! Jerry and James hit it off jusy great. In that James has
passed the Grail to us, I'm deeply humbled. Ball's in OUR court, now.
The Damn rain dodn't dampin our spirit,as we shoved off for CT, Sun came
out, as we prius'ed home. an oman? Sunday was rest up, prep the 81 Diseasel
Rabbit for it's Next Life, and secred duty to get Jerry and the trailered
Sunrise home. We Lifted the body off the chassis, to hose leaves mice nests
,etc out, off, the chassis. Amazingly light, for the 2 of us it was a bit
of a grunt to pick up, but you couldn't do that with any metel carbody!
Jerry's little trailer was just right, damn well ought to as the Suzuki gave
it's life, getting it here!
Oh yeah, went down to Newark with my trusty rusty Ford Econoline 78 van,
collected the bike inside, STILL room, in front of a palot of used nicads,
Hitched up the trailer and came home, unEVentfully. Monday mourning came to
beautiful SUNNY skies, Picture perfect , CT's nicest cool dry crisp weather.
Off to the DMV, morning wasted but we DID get a temp tag for the Bunny,
hooked up a trailer hitch and wired the trailer for lites, yada yada yada,
checked out stuff on Rabbit, oil change, new Fuel filter, fresh antifreeze.
Bill Glickman stopped off after work, to meet Jerry an' the Sunrise.
FINALLY Jerry was ready, stuff packed aboard the Rabbit, he sailed about
5pm, late enough to miss, hopefully, the rush hour in NYC traffic. By now he
oughta be in the Carolinas? If he rattles along at about 55-60MPH and keeps
moving, get back to the hurricane state just in time for ANOTHER one!<g>!
Havent checked the weather channel this AM.
Old faithful Rabbit haz a loving home, at last, donated to the EV 'cause"
Hell! Jerry needs something ,more substantial to tow moulds and Freedom
stuff around in FLA! The Suzuki has been left here. I think it haz a hole in
the piston? It cranks with almost no compression, but no rod through the
block/crankcase. Guess I could bury it away for the History Channel's story
on HOW the Freedom- got- started early daze when Deternination and guts were
on the line. Heres an example of determened, demented? EVers went through.
Yes trailer hitch is still there!!A dead motorcycle is a damn BULKY thing to
handle, he sure didn't need MORE stuff to schleppe home!
OK Jerry, if ya see this on a Rest Stop at a library, give us a shout,
how are ya doing?Or no news is good news? Rabbits going along fine?
Hoping for a Post tomorrow from the Sunshine State, Tampa, home base.So
fans, keep yur fingers crossed!
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Here we go at it again. After thinking we had maybe lost any chance of
returning to the track this season due to increasingly cooler and wetter
weather, and, because the track is not open for tonight's Wednesday
drags (it's raining today, anyway), the surprise is one last window of
opportunity for this Friday with the forecast of sun and near 70 degree
temps! For the Willamette Valley and Portland metro area, late October
is where the last warm days of early Fall fade away as daytime temps
drop lower, the rains and winds pick up, and nighttime temps start
flirting with low 40's - high 30s. Then, from November through February
it's anything from
freezing temps, snow and ice, to just wet and c-cold 40 degree days. The
point is....we're racing this Friday night!
I had written:
....the sky was darkening and a mass of unfriendly clouds had
displaced the sunshine...how could a beautiful warm day go away so
quickly? Fall in Oregon! Heading west on Marine Drive towards the
track, it was 5:30-ish (gates opened at 6:00) so we were still on
schedule, but so was the weather front. The skies above us were now
foreboding, the huge river to our right was choppy, and rain drops
were dotting the windshield.....After the light rain temporarily
stopped, the racing resumed and we got the second and last pass of the
night...That was it, folks...it started to rain hard after that....
time to pack it up for the night :-(
There'll be none of that this weekend, as after today's rain, it's
supposed to clear back up and stay warm through Sunday. Saturday and
Sunday the track is set up for motorcycle road racing, but Friday night
will be the 'Les Schwab Late Night Drags'. The gates open at 6:00, and
you can bet we'll be charged up and ready to run. One thing that has
helped us get on the track as soon a possible, is when we arrive at the
Burger King just blocks away from the track at 5:30 where we do our
recharge from the drive while we grab a gut bomb.
The drag radials are pretty much burnt down to where they look more like
slicks now, so this will be their last race as well....after Friday
night, they'll be ready to be recycled. With the increased traction of
the slick-like tires on a dry track, and with the improved traction bar
design, we'll be cranking up the Zilla to full power at 2000 amps in the
series mode, for the first time. The launches should be strong!
Again, anyone in the Portland metro area with a video cam, please join
us and help record what we hope will be the first time an electric
street conversion has ever blasted into the 11's.
See Ya.....John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
A driveable generator is my goal for infinate range. I'd like to use
propane or biodiesel. Lawrence Rhodes....
The subject was/is backup generator or true hybrid, and so many posts
have focused on the generator, I thought I'd offer a couple of "true
hybrids" from a couple of my heroes--
http://www.jstraubel.com/EVpusher/EVpusher.htm
http://www.mrsharkey.com/pusher.htm
Old timers here are no doubt familiar with these pusher-hybrids.
These, IMHO, are the best examples to follow for range-extension. The
aesthetics may not appeal to some, but the functionality is undeniable.
(I imagine that a nice aero-box could be constructed around the original
donor ICE FWD vehicle, for those who don't enjoy the head-swivels of the
thundering herd).
Regards,
Jim Davis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As soon as I find out why the tire went flat, I will POST.
(Back to the College homework ...)
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:52:29 +1000, "djsharpe"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I contacted BP about a suitable low loss lubricant for my Daihatsu
>gearbox. The suggestion was to use autotransmission fluid. Anybody done
>this? I will do a before & after post about this if your postings are
>not adverse.
>David
Yes, it works. I've used dextron-type ATF in racing rear ends for
years. I add a package of extreme pressure lube to accommodate the
sliding contact between the ring and pinion. I can't comment on the
long term durability of this because none of the racing cars ever
accumulated much mileage.
I also ran ATF in my Datsun Z's manual gearbox. Same deal with the
extreme pressure lube. 380,000 miles and counting.
Another little trick you can do if your rear end or gearbox is hefty
enough to sustain the loss of bearing surface is to cut a narrow
groove in the center of the teeth of each gear. This provides an
additional channel for the oil to escape as the teeth mesh. This
simple mod freed up almost 1 hp on a 100cc roadracing engine, a huge
amount for an engine that small.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You have to test it out like I did.
The EV setting at 30 below 0 F. for 8 hours at work, I could not hardly move
the transmission shift with the standard oil in it. The ampere was either
double or triple to get the EV to move. The flat spots in the tires also
increase the resistance.
After changing to the Conoco Polar oil, it was back to normal like it would be
at a higher temperature. So the resistance to move the EV was reduce.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: EV Discussion List<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: Low loss lubricant for EV gearbox
<<<<Used a Full Synthetic Extreme Duty High/Low Temperature Rate Gear Oil,
which
the oil companies developed for the machines at the north slopes. This type of
oil
is now available in all types of grades for engines, transmission and axils at
any auto parts store.
In 1975, Conoco was one of the first to develop a Polar Grade that I used in
the
transmission standard gear boxes and differentials. It was just like automatic
transmission fluid.
At that time, it was recommended if the gear boxes had standard gear oil in
it,
that you clean out the oil and replace all the gaskets and seals before you
add
the Polar Grade. Today, you might be able to add some of this synthetic oil
with no other adjustments.>>>>
Is this the lowest friction lube you can use, or only the most temp-tolerant?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
49mpg says it all. Sorry to base it that way but real mpg doesn't lie.
It always translates into longer range. That's usually my criteria in
selecting an EV. Lawrence Rhodes.....
I'm sorry Lawrence but that's a logic error, MPG as a criteria.
Converting Le Car means throwing away your 49 mpg (with its ICE).
There will be _no gallons_ to get any miles from.
Ask yourself instead, how did Le Car putter along and gain its owner
that 49 mpg? And, when your conversion is done, how many of those
factors (that were providing 49 mpg) will still be present?
The first thing that that stands out about Le Car is its weight.
Certainly its body is not built for reducing aero-drag. No doubt the
outstanding mileage was the most basic result of power-to-weight, Le Car
was the little engine that could. Converting it, you would be pulling
that engine and adding considerable weight (facing the same issues as
Rabbit converters, but without the VW benefits).
Let me put it another way-- a Corvette with a 450 V-8 roars down the
highway and gets mpg in the low teens. Pull its engine and all its ICE
components and you'll be dropping a lot more weight than what you'd drop
when you pulled Le Car's ICE. (If a Corvette is not the best example,
begin with a Porsche 944, or any other aero/cool car.).
Finding a way to shave weight and still add enough batteries for power
and range is the constant theme of conversions. The key, it seems to me,
is to find a vehicle with enough suspension and frame strength, a GVWR
that offers some headroom once the vehicle has been stripped of its ICE.
Le Car looks like it could be converted to a nice NEV, and if that is
what you are looking for, it might do. But former ICE MPG is not a good
criteria, unless you can point to features that you will retain
post-conversion, (like aero, composite body panels, light/strong
chassis, etc.).
IMHO,
Jim Davis
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: Why Le Car makes a great EV
Tell us why Le Cars were good EVs. I've always believed that Le Car
was a
sorry example of a car both in ICE and EV form. Maybe I was wrong.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rhodes"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>;
"electric_vehicles_for_sale Moderator"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 11:05 AM
Subject: Why Le Car makes a great EV
I wondered why Le Cars were good EV's. I really didn't think much of
them. Now I know. Lawrence Rhodes.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1980-Renault-Le-Car-LeCAR-R5-48MPG-BEAUTIFUL-50PIX-NR_W0QQitemZ4582840867QQcategoryZ6385QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What about an electric corner convenience store? This could be a prototype for
a national chain of drop in charge it up stores that Willie Nelson could be
franchising...
That's reasonable.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 11:55 PM
Subject: Re: The big one.
> Rich Rudman wrote:
>
>>
>>>Looks cool! What's it for? ;)
>>> Seriously, I've heard you mention it a few times but I don't know why
>>>you're doing it. Super fast charging?
>>> -Mike
>>>
>>
>> Er...yea that's the ticket!!!
>> Of course for fast charging... and as many times as we can get in a day,
>> with more than one EV.
>>
>> Rich Rudman
>> Manzanita Micro
>>
> How many people do you think have 400A 3 phase feed at home to take
> advantage of it? Industrial customer is different issue,
> but "as *we* can get"? I wonder who is we?
>
> While I understand your excitement, I wouldn't know what to
> do with 75kW charger even if get one for free and have 5 EVs
> with lead sitting waiting for fast charge. Sort of having a
> diesel for a ship on the back yard.
>
> Let say you manage to come up with 1MW charger at some point.
> What for other than bragging rights? Any *practical*
> implications relevant to plain mortals in residential areas?
> Not saying you do something wrong Rich, just wonder what is
> your definition of "reasonable"?
>
> Victor
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have experience with regular fast charging. With all my chargers
on, I can push over 170 amps into my pack:
http://brucedp02.0catch.com/lvnedra02/
specifically the image at
http://brucedp02.0catch.com/lvnedra02/f_lvnedra020323-015.jpg
show my emeter at 172 amps and a surface voltage of 150 VDC.
That's 25800 or 26 Kw.
At that event the Las Vegas EAA Chapter had arranged for a huge
3 phase industrial genset to be on site. I let my EV charging
zeal go wild and let all my chargers suck down hard off that
genset's power. That was fun! but it did not last long as my
pack charged up very fast.
At the time I had a 132 VDC PbSO4 wet cell pack of US145s. The
high current charging should only occur below the 80% when using a
collection of standard chargers as I do (PFC, Zivan, etc.)
At 80% SOC either unplug and go to the next charging station as I
have done many times (I have drove my Blazer from Silicon Valley to
Sacramento round trip six times this way), or to shutdown all
but one smart charger (and make sure to reset it so it starts
afresh and is not confused i.e. a Zivan charger).
Even at a 11 Kw rate I used the same method. After 911 when I was
running up and down between Silicon Valley and the SF Peninsula
doing interviews, beating the bushes for a job (any job).
I would plug into two 14-50 208 VAC 40 amp circuits which would
power a PFC charge and a Zivan for an output of 11 KW. With in an
hour I was reaching 80% SOC and would just unplug and go.
If done correctly, it isn't the fast charging that causes any
damage to the pack. People do have to remember that each charging
is a charging cycle. Additional charging cycles, make you reach
the pack's cycle design quicker. But you got where you needed
to go so it all evens out. If you want more, you pay more.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:26:27 -0400, Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>> A driveable generator is my goal for infinate range. I'd like to use
>> propane or biodiesel. Lawrence Rhodes....
>
>The subject was/is backup generator or true hybrid, and so many posts
>have focused on the generator, I thought I'd offer a couple of "true
>hybrids" from a couple of my heroes--
>
>http://www.jstraubel.com/EVpusher/EVpusher.htm
>http://www.mrsharkey.com/pusher.htm
>
>Old timers here are no doubt familiar with these pusher-hybrids.
>
>These, IMHO, are the best examples to follow for range-extension. The
>aesthetics may not appeal to some, but the functionality is undeniable.
>(I imagine that a nice aero-box could be constructed around the original
>donor ICE FWD vehicle, for those who don't enjoy the head-swivels of the
>thundering herd).
In terms of architecture, I agree fully. But for the True Believers,
these are much worse in terms of emissions than just driving the
original fueled vehicle. Especially the Bug engined one. Bug engines
were particularly large emitters and could not be cleaned up
economically which is why they're not on the US market nowadays.
Even the diesel is nowhere nearly as clean as a modern electronically
controlled, emission controlled diesel.
BTW, the sham of biodiesel will be exposed shortly, so I'm told. At
least one major car maker is running a small fleet of diesel-powered
vehicles through the EPA extended durability cycle while burning
biodiesel. My source tells me that the emissions situation is grim,
that unburned HCs are off the chart. These are not aromatic HCs and
so don't trigger that highly sensitive and superbly calibrated
detection system called the nose. There really is a reason why the
evil oil companies twiddle with the composition of diesel oil!
To me it is the supreme irony that the most er, "dedicated" of the
EVers are actually making the emission situation worse by using
generators or pushers to extend range. I'd love to get one of these
generator or pusher lashups into an emissions lab and see just how bad
they really are.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Victor...
Yes this Is for a comercial application.
They are in the "TOO Much is not enough" mode,and they have some real
engineering data and math as to how much charge power they need.
And it's not 400 amps of 3 phase it's barley 100 amps or 480 3 phase.
Bragging rights???? Well that's kind of fun, but putting $10K worth of parts
into a unit is not something I do just for bragging rights.
We intend to charge what ever Battery we want to at the limits of the
battery. Finding that information is not real easy.
Clearly Industrial uses, but as a fleet charger, I could top off your old
Optimas in about 10 minutes. And this is the point the less time spent on
the charger the better.
Think Big Victor... with a 1Mega watt charger, I could charge 10 cars at
100kw rates. That's the whole "residentail area" not using petro fuel.
At 1 MW you are transfering energy almost as fast as a Gasoline pump.
So... few folks ever have thought about charging as fast as they Can. I do
every day.
Also My client has secured a site that has 1200 amps of 480 on site. At
75Kw I now feel unworthy ...again.
This is not intended for home users.
But it sure could be nice.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 11:55 PM
Subject: Re: The big one.
> Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> >
> >>Looks cool! What's it for? ;)
> >> Seriously, I've heard you mention it a few times but I don't know why
> >>you're doing it. Super fast charging?
> >> -Mike
> >>
> >
> > Er...yea that's the ticket!!!
> > Of course for fast charging... and as many times as we can get in a
day,
> > with more than one EV.
> >
> > Rich Rudman
> > Manzanita Micro
> >
> How many people do you think have 400A 3 phase feed at home to take
> advantage of it? Industrial customer is different issue,
> but "as *we* can get"? I wonder who is we?
>
> While I understand your excitement, I wouldn't know what to
> do with 75kW charger even if get one for free and have 5 EVs
> with lead sitting waiting for fast charge. Sort of having a
> diesel for a ship on the back yard.
>
> Let say you manage to come up with 1MW charger at some point.
> What for other than bragging rights? Any *practical*
> implications relevant to plain mortals in residential areas?
> Not saying you do something wrong Rich, just wonder what is
> your definition of "reasonable"?
>
> Victor
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yup would work just fine.
You still have some power factor issues, but much less.
We are not doing any power factor efforts on the 75K, since it's 3 phase....
The charge cart I did with Brad Jackson years ago had a 400 Hz 25Kw head and
just 3 rectifier 1/2 bridges.
It worked..Ok... I would be a LOT better now days, but basicly the same
thing.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Austin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 11:55 PM
Subject: Re: Backup generator or true hybrid
> On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 11:18:51PM -0700, Joe Smalley wrote:
> <..snip..>
> >
> > With PFC or three phase rectification, you get about 90% of the rated
power
> > into the battery. In a well matched system the engine reaches its power
> > limit before the alternator gets hot.
>
> When you say three phase rectification, do you mean just 6 diodes?
>
> If that is the case, why not get a generator head that produces 3 phase,
and
> drop them across a 3 phase rectifier?
>
> Would that work?
>
> Thanks!
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yup it is on the really big chargers.
The PFC chargers are not isolated.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 11:14 PM
Subject: How to use a PFC75 at home
> What about as a dump pack controller.
>
> solar,grid and wind charge a underground bunker of submarine batteries.
> then you pull up and plug into the 75 while you zip into the house and
> change clothes. It will be charged before you are ready.
>
> I assume your isolation is not based on 60hz?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I Aim to make that a Quick cup of coffee.. Very quick.
Madman
15 amps.. snort!! that's about my cooling system load.
Spending the day looking for affordable 3/4 inch Alum plate and 2000 CFM
extractor fans...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>
> What's it good for? Ha Ha! Think of how many "Carfuls" That Bad Boy can
> do in an hour!! Not calling it a bad boy, just sorta slipped out.<g>! But
if
> a few key "Gas" Stations, the "pump over there "setup. An Amtrak, coach to
> coach, type plug -it-in, ya stop for a cup of coffee and a paper, and get
> most of yur juice back, In MINUTES! This could make EVery EV a practical
> daily driver. This is if it happens rather quickly, the cutoff of gas
> supplies, do to politics or just it-just-runs-out, seneriao. Probably gas
> stations/inconvenience stores, the BIG ones, Sheetz, Mobil Marts, come to
> mind, are wired for 3 faze 480, in lavish amounts, anyhow.
>
> If that happens Rich would have more orders than he could deal with,
> couldn't happen to a nicer guy<g>!
>
> Charging [EMAIL PROTECTED] amps
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just curious, if you have a 3-phase 480V supply. You
could get 672V DC. I would think it is far cheaper to
just use a controller such as the Z1k "UHV" (not yet
available). You would be able to recharge at 1000A or
672kW in theory provided your battery voltage is lower
than 672V.
Am I missing something?
Ed Ang
__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Damn I am trying to get out of here and get some real work done today... and
you all keep asking the hard questions.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Meta Bus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 8:09 AM
Subject: Fast Charging was: The Big One
> The subject of a 75kw charger segues into a related topic--
>
> Are there costs/effects of fast charging in terms of battery life?
Yes.
>
> Is there an optimal charge-acceptance-rate, for battery bank longevity
> and/or performance? The CAR is a function of internal resistance right?
Yes
>
> At any point in a charge, you can be generating more heat than ions, if
> you're trying to pour a jillion amps into your bucket.
True , voltage limits and temp limits keep the Jillions down into the 100K
range.
>
> Is there a need to "rest" batteries after a charge? Does this contribute
> to SOH, or only optimize immediate (that day's) performance? Do
> dragsters rest their banks after making a deposit?
Only if over temp is present.
Yes
No if they are cool enough.
this is for Lead acid AGMs of course..
>
> Is anybody using a Level 3 charger and really flowing some amps?
Few are.
Wayland in Race mode and me in charger test mode.
What is level 3... over 200 amps?. I am not sure of the spec, but... over
200 amps of charge you need to monitor things well.
>
> Finally, for those battery makers who don't publish CAR info, is there a
> correlation between discharge rates and charge-acceptance? Can I use a
> discharge chart to estimate a CAR?
>
Yes you can. and no battery manufacture is going to tell us the max rate,
without a LOT of guidelines.
Most of the published rates are for constant current charges, with little
actual feed back.
The whole max Rate argument changes when the battery guys Know that the
charger Guys are watching the same data point they are... Amps, volts, temp,
and maybe cell pressure.
I know with pratice and a keen eye, you can stuff a LOT Of amps into a room
temp battery with very little adverse affects.
Even with the extreme rates or 400 amps... if you have a parallel battery
pack araingment... each string is going to see about 2C and not much more.
We have brag sheets from some battery folks that say we can charge at 15 and
50 C rates. This I just don't believe... and I suppose we will tell them
where we get into trouble...2C on a 95 amp hour battery, is not that insane.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
DArn it!!!
I will be down there tonight...
Sigh!!
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 8:17 AM
Subject: Zombie's Last Chance for the 11's this Friday Night
> Hello to All,
>
> Here we go at it again. After thinking we had maybe lost any chance of
> returning to the track this season due to increasingly cooler and wetter
> weather, and, because the track is not open for tonight's Wednesday
> drags (it's raining today, anyway), the surprise is one last window of
> opportunity for this Friday with the forecast of sun and near 70 degree
> temps! For the Willamette Valley and Portland metro area, late October
> is where the last warm days of early Fall fade away as daytime temps
> drop lower, the rains and winds pick up, and nighttime temps start
> flirting with low 40's - high 30s. Then, from November through February
> it's anything from
> freezing temps, snow and ice, to just wet and c-cold 40 degree days. The
> point is....we're racing this Friday night!
>
> I had written:
>
> > ....the sky was darkening and a mass of unfriendly clouds had
> > displaced the sunshine...how could a beautiful warm day go away so
> > quickly? Fall in Oregon! Heading west on Marine Drive towards the
> > track, it was 5:30-ish (gates opened at 6:00) so we were still on
> > schedule, but so was the weather front. The skies above us were now
> > foreboding, the huge river to our right was choppy, and rain drops
> > were dotting the windshield.....After the light rain temporarily
> > stopped, the racing resumed and we got the second and last pass of the
> > night...That was it, folks...it started to rain hard after that....
> > time to pack it up for the night :-(
>
> There'll be none of that this weekend, as after today's rain, it's
> supposed to clear back up and stay warm through Sunday. Saturday and
> Sunday the track is set up for motorcycle road racing, but Friday night
> will be the 'Les Schwab Late Night Drags'. The gates open at 6:00, and
> you can bet we'll be charged up and ready to run. One thing that has
> helped us get on the track as soon a possible, is when we arrive at the
> Burger King just blocks away from the track at 5:30 where we do our
> recharge from the drive while we grab a gut bomb.
>
> The drag radials are pretty much burnt down to where they look more like
> slicks now, so this will be their last race as well....after Friday
> night, they'll be ready to be recycled. With the increased traction of
> the slick-like tires on a dry track, and with the improved traction bar
> design, we'll be cranking up the Zilla to full power at 2000 amps in the
> series mode, for the first time. The launches should be strong!
>
> Again, anyone in the Portland metro area with a video cam, please join
> us and help record what we hope will be the first time an electric
> street conversion has ever blasted into the 11's.
>
> See Ya.....John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
>
> http://www.plasmaboyracing.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Shawn,,,
well my ev ztr mower project is moving very slowly , I have it at my ev
friends house and work on it there once a week . after this weeks visit I'm
feeling like its got a long way to go , the drive is 2 winch motors and 2
altrax 48v controllers dose not give it the precise steering needed , and it
kind of drifts on way or another , the problem looks to be that when you cut
power to one wheel it still keeps going some what , I can see needing
someway to brake each wheel ,I know , there are ways to do this but the
list of thing to do goes on , was just wondering how you set up the drive
and , what is the price your going to be selling them for , even if I get my
done I still might want to sell yours to people who see mine ( if I get mine
done ) . I could probable make just as much money setting up a trailer with
batteries for charging and selling your mower to other yard men as making or
converting mowers for them . I'm feeling the presser to do something as my
back up mower blow a connecting rod yesterday , I then spent the day fixing
my other , which needed a head and starter motor , but that engine is old
also , If I can't make the jump to electric I'll have to buy another gas
engine :-( ...
the lawn season is winding down , but still running hard , still 7 days a
week ,
Steve Clunn
s
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 7:07 AM
Subject: "Zero" Mower and "Orange Juice" on featured display at East Coast
electric Expo next week
If anyone in the Philadelphia area is interested in the "Zero" mower or
our newly rebuilt Orange Juice dragster with 12 of the most powerful Lemco
motors ever, they will both be on featured display at the East Coast
Electric Expo October 26-27 in King of Prussia, PA. Admission is free. To
register go to www.eap.org and follow the links to the show. I tried to
get them to let us do burnouts in the parking area but got a big "I don't
think so". The show hrs are very convenient, 2-8pm. Stop by and say Hi.
Shawn Lawless
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pestka, Dennis J"
I am also leaning to the AGM Exide XCD's.
20 ~ 820#'s of lead should give the daily 16 mile trip that my wife makes
with only 50% DOD.
I'm going to bring up a point hear that I think most non ev drivers seem
somewhat unaware of , and that's how much your driving distance will change
with the speed you drive . Your 20 agm's is close to what i have in my
Porsche 924 , now when you say %50 dod do you mean 15 ah as 30 ah is about
the most you can get form them doing ev driving even though they are rated
at 52ah, . your car will need to be pulling around 60 amps at 60 mph to do
this , which is possible with a somewhat light car , mine pulls 70amp at 60
mph .
I should be able to make an occasional weekend trip of 28 miles.
at a little slower speed but in the ball park .
Hopefully this set up will give me a reasonable battery life.
many thing go into battery life , not running them down to far , not
leaving them uncharged , braking them in , waking them up easy after sitting
awhile , .
The only thing that I'm concerned with is the 240 volts.
Is this too much for a newbie?
Well as to what's safer with any set up you can't ( and yes I have ) drop a
wrench down across any set up .
when doing any work you should disconnect a cable in the middle of the
pack, ...
and of course disconnect your e meter first before doing any work on the
batteries ,
, or should I consider(2) 120 volt parallel
packs,
if your using a pfc charger the 240 will charge twice as fast , you'll also
have a much zipper car .
and then jump to the 240 volt pack in the future.
Can anyone shed any light on my throwaway costs if I decide to do this.
I have been looking at some Exide Stowaway batteries which would fit
my system,
not ev batteries , even at low discharges I had 20 in my Porsche when it was
born cus I got them cheep , lasted 1 year ,
So my question is....compared to AGM's which rate about 50ah, in the
same vehicle, won't any of the floodeds deliver better range at a
sacrifice of performance?
well what type of performance are you talking about , golf cart bats at 120v
will give 4 cylinder performance or a little better and there price is
less that $1 lbs.
A lot of arguments are made both ways here about the low cost per mile
on floodies, the performance of AGM's, etc.
There realy is only one answerer hear :-) you must have 2 EV's , one the Hi
performance with agm's and the other Hi range with golf cart batteries . Now
the question is what one are you going to do first ?
Steve clunn
In my case I already have
some losses due to my automatic transmission and won't
want to end up with a car that only goes 10 miles on a charge.
This won't do at all with the cost of the conversion. The cost per
mile using AGM's seems a lot higher if part of your objective is
beating the cost of gasoline. I need 20-25 miles minimum.
The other factor is I can go with a Zivan charger, which was my
initial choice and no big hassles other than the periodic maintenance
required.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John... some of our Gencarts are the ripped out Gas engine with all the
emissions gear in working order.
So.... Clean as the ice it was.
Yea though I have seen some on board Gens that use a old Brigs, you could
smell the Gas vapors and oil fumes.
Bad Seen.
Others with real Gensets... like Sheer's Honda genset that met all the
Standards aplicable.. that Cart sure would pass. Of course that was a one
spendy
Genset to start with.
Some of the true belivers are living in the past as far as emmitted
polutants go.
If they don't pass the nose test... they sure won't pass a real EG test.
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: Backup generator or true hybrid
> On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:26:27 -0400, Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> >> A driveable generator is my goal for infinate range. I'd like to use
> >> propane or biodiesel. Lawrence Rhodes....
> >
> >The subject was/is backup generator or true hybrid, and so many posts
> >have focused on the generator, I thought I'd offer a couple of "true
> >hybrids" from a couple of my heroes--
> >
> >http://www.jstraubel.com/EVpusher/EVpusher.htm
> >http://www.mrsharkey.com/pusher.htm
> >
> >Old timers here are no doubt familiar with these pusher-hybrids.
> >
> >These, IMHO, are the best examples to follow for range-extension. The
> >aesthetics may not appeal to some, but the functionality is undeniable.
> >(I imagine that a nice aero-box could be constructed around the original
> >donor ICE FWD vehicle, for those who don't enjoy the head-swivels of the
> >thundering herd).
>
> In terms of architecture, I agree fully. But for the True Believers,
> these are much worse in terms of emissions than just driving the
> original fueled vehicle. Especially the Bug engined one. Bug engines
> were particularly large emitters and could not be cleaned up
> economically which is why they're not on the US market nowadays.
>
> Even the diesel is nowhere nearly as clean as a modern electronically
> controlled, emission controlled diesel.
>
> BTW, the sham of biodiesel will be exposed shortly, so I'm told. At
> least one major car maker is running a small fleet of diesel-powered
> vehicles through the EPA extended durability cycle while burning
> biodiesel. My source tells me that the emissions situation is grim,
> that unburned HCs are off the chart. These are not aromatic HCs and
> so don't trigger that highly sensitive and superbly calibrated
> detection system called the nose. There really is a reason why the
> evil oil companies twiddle with the composition of diesel oil!
>
> To me it is the supreme irony that the most er, "dedicated" of the
> EVers are actually making the emission situation worse by using
> generators or pushers to extend range. I'd love to get one of these
> generator or pusher lashups into an emissions lab and see just how bad
> they really are.
>
> John
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you use controllers with an A1 terminal you could use plug braking.
Since this is not a standard feature on the Alltrax controllers you probably
do not have this on the controllers you are working with.
I've got a a Curtis 1204 with this if you want to give it a try let me know.
It shouldn't cost much to ship, and for the time being it is just sitting
on the shelf in my garage, so I wouldn't even know if it were gone for a few
weeks. If it works and you like it you shouldn't have much trouble
scrounging up another one of these controllers.
Also, you might just try reversing contactors if you have some laying
around. You'd really be able to spin then!!!!
damon
From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: "Zero" Mower and "Orange Juice" on featured display at East
Coast electric Expo next week
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:16:41 -0500
Hi Shawn,,,
well my ev ztr mower project is moving very slowly , I have it at my ev
friends house and work on it there once a week . after this weeks visit I'm
feeling like its got a long way to go , the drive is 2 winch motors and 2
altrax 48v controllers dose not give it the precise steering needed , and
it kind of drifts on way or another , the problem looks to be that when you
cut power to one wheel it still keeps going some what , I can see needing
someway to brake each wheel ,I know , there are ways to do this but the
list of thing to do goes on , was just wondering how you set up the drive
and , what is the price your going to be selling them for , even if I get
my done I still might want to sell yours to people who see mine ( if I get
mine done ) . I could probable make just as much money setting up a trailer
with batteries for charging and selling your mower to other yard men as
making or converting mowers for them . I'm feeling the presser to do
something as my back up mower blow a connecting rod yesterday , I then
spent the day fixing my other , which needed a head and starter motor , but
that engine is old also , If I can't make the jump to electric I'll have to
buy another gas engine :-( ...
the lawn season is winding down , but still running hard , still 7 days a
week ,
Steve Clunn
s
----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 7:07 AM
Subject: "Zero" Mower and "Orange Juice" on featured display at East Coast
electric Expo next week
If anyone in the Philadelphia area is interested in the "Zero" mower or
our newly rebuilt Orange Juice dragster with 12 of the most powerful Lemco
motors ever, they will both be on featured display at the East Coast
Electric Expo October 26-27 in King of Prussia, PA. Admission is free. To
register go to www.eap.org and follow the links to the show. I tried to
get them to let us do burnouts in the parking area but got a big "I don't
think so". The show hrs are very convenient, 2-8pm. Stop by and say Hi.
Shawn Lawless
--- End Message ---
