EV Digest 4836
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Experimental 'personal' vehicle
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Beazley outlines Labor's energy policy
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Honda Fuel Cell Concept with Home H2 Refueling
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Backup generator or true hybrid
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: 2 cars, 4 options.
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: 2 cars, 4 options.
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Fet Switch (for heater etc) ; Also, Relay Question [maybe OT]
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) charger woes, obsolete parts
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Beazley outlines Labor's energy policy
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: 2 cars, 4 options.
by jerry halstead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: motor selection - am I missing something? - correction
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) EBEAA Meeting this Saturday 10/22/05 10-12 in Alameda, CA
by Ed Thorpe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Electric drag racing Science Channel, 8PM EST
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Why Le Car makes a great EV
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Zilla Cooling
by Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Vacuum Pump / ABS
by Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Electric drag racing Science Channel, 8PM EST
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Fet Switch (for heater etc) ; Also, Relay Question [maybe OT]
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: PVC Box or something ?
by Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Opportunity Charging
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) window defrost
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: motor selection - AC55 vs Siemens
by Robert Baertsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Why Le Car makes a great EV - 1000 lb of batteries?
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: window defrost
by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Beazley outlines Labor's energy policy
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
> While visiting Toyota's hybrid site, saw this vehicle:
> http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/future/pm.html - has it been mentioned on
> the
> EVDL before?
Yup.
It's a "Concept" car and many of the concepts don't even exist in the Car
Show mockup.
I doubt this vehicle will ever see production, though some of the concepts
may eventually show up on production vehicles.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Australia's Federal Opposition Leader has called for Australia to become
less reliant on overseas oil.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200510/s1486000.htm
One of the things he talks about is cutting the tariffs on hybrid cars.
Perhaps now is a good time for us Australian EV users and planners to
contact our MPs (while this is fresh in their minds...) and ask them
what their plans are for saving oil in Aus, and hint that offering
incentives to hybrid and EV drivers like free parking, free tolls, use
of T2 and Bus lanes would cost practically nothing, but give great
publicity to the enviro cause :-)
(Whaddya reckon Claudio, we should give Louise Markus a call?)
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>From Slashdot, a story about the Honda FCX concept car.
http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/10/19/1749259
Interesting part is the home refueling station which uses natural gas to
produce electricity, heat and hydrogen.
Honda estimates that the HES system will lower by 50% the total running
cost of household electricity, gas and vehicle fuel.
I wonder how much the typical EV commuter has reduced their energy bill
compared to the ICE days?
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There are a pair of pages for pusher and genset trailers here...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pusher_trailer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genset_trailer
I just added the two (new to me) links from this thread.
Pleas feel free to add content to these pages.
L8r
Ryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Option 1:
- possible, check the weight
- somewhat of a pain to swap an auto for 4 speed and clutch
- direct drive is also possible (I have this on my New Beetle), but
you will be sacrificing either acceleration or top end
- FWD is just fine
Option 2:
- too heavy
Option 3:
- best of the options.
- find a light vehicle both you and your wife like, in good
condition (except for motor)
- FWD is fine
- use standard trans and clutch if you want best accel and top end.
Option 4:
- if it is purely a cost issue - buy a used geo metro ICE for $2500
and drive it - tell them to do the same
- if it is a clean air issue - ride the bike, build the EV
- if it is a hobby issue - build the EV
- if it is the oil issue - ride a bike, build the EV
Option 5:
- as Jeff points out, buying a used EV is a good alternative to
inexpensively get started. For me, I wanted to learn about the conversion
process by actually doing the whole thing.
As for motors and controllers, I am somewhat conservative: select a proven
EV motor controller combination (ADC, Warp, Curtis, Zilla, Siemens, etc).
Unless you want to prototype (which is fine), using a proven combination
will prove much easier to get help from this list and experienced EV
builders.
Best to be clear on your goal. For some it is to be free from gasoline.
For others it is to build something different. And yet for others, they
don't like the pollution. Or maybe it is to have a cheap and inexpensive
car. Once you understand your goal(s), you can balance any decisions against
it - it makes life much easier.
good luck
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Seth Rothenberg
Sent: October 19, 2005 7:46 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: 2 cars, 4 options.
Greetings,
been googling, waiting for the mailman to bring the Brandt book, read
Electric Dreams...now I need some advice...
I have at this moment 2 donor cars in my driveway.
I'd like to hear if there is any sage advice out there.
1. My father's 1993 Mazda 626. The ICE needs main seals and timing belt,
$700 worth. It's mine as soon as the title turns up.
2, 1989 Lincoln Town Car. It was donated to my synagogue, and I haven't
decided what to do with it. It's worth $50 by weight.
The Mazda has tremendous advantages: 1) It has plates on it.
2) It passed inspection 2 months ago 3) It is small
Cons: Autmatic transmission; Front wheel drive, means small inside...
The Lincoln town car has advantages
1) Old, probably non-electronic transmission, etc.
2) Big, higher Max Gross Vehicle Weight, more room for motor & batteries
3) Probably can find a manual transmission that would fit
4) RWD, probably easier.
5) Suede interior, leather top
Disadvantages: No plates, (I drove it last week, donor took the plates
back). 2 years since last inspected, large, heavy.
I actually have an acquaintence who is into cars (building racing
stock-cars) who is interested in this project.
He seems willing to swap the Mazda tranny for me, but he thinks it would be
hard to make stick fit into the Lincoln.
He suggested embedding solar panels in the roof...and he could do it, being
a body expert.
He actually can get old elevator motors (3-phase AC).
My friend the EE said that's the wrong kind of motor, and it would need too
much power. But I know he is a pestimist.
google seems to say the controller for the 3-phase would cost more than a
brand-new motor and controller for DC.
BTW, I was noticing that the ratios in the Mazda range
from around 2:1 to around 1:1. What happens if I do without
a transmission? So, it's 1:1 always....harder work for starts, but isn't
that what a DC motor is good at?
Note, I haven't decideed WHAT I am building yet.
My wife might be willing to use a Mazda EV for short errands, where it costs
$1 in gas to turn the key in the Honda minivan, and it's probably 25 cents
worth of electricity for the whole trip.
I would be willing to drive either car, but my trip to work is 33 miles, so
I would have to make a hybrid to be able to get home (or get a job close to
home in Northern NJ) or bribe someone to let me plug it in...
or, carry solar panels?
PS I am thinking DC, and Controller with Regen, because I might as well get
the most bang for my buck.
Option 3 is to get a different donor car.
Option 4 is to obey my wife, my mother, my friend the rocket scientist
(really), and the other friend the Electrical Engineer, and stick to regular
cars. Or Prius or whatever.
PPS on the hybrid idea,
has anyone tried to do a hybrid using the existing gas tank?
I was thinking a 3KW generator (5 gal tank) would do, maybe less, and some
kind of float switch could turn on the real fuel pump if needed.
(this is for the Mazda, not sure if the LTC has a fuel pump Smile
Thanks in advance for all advice.
Seth
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Bath
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 12:12 AM
>Hi Seth; welcome to the list.
>My own wife's experience is useful. I started when gas was >$1.50/gal, and
>everyone was laughing at me. The wife was >more concerned about how much
>time it would take away from my >kids, and that the project would get DONE/car
>on the road. >Nobody is laughing at me anymore, and the wife is pretty
>>danged impressed.
>Good luck with your decision.
>(;-p
Yes, like Bob said, Welcome to the list Seth. (what is it with Seth's and the
EV list? You're the third one here, so now I know three Seth's, all on the
EVDL.)
Ditto on the wife thing.... Mine is (surprisingly)fully supportive and
impressed but yet still concerned because my car is not yet done. I wish it
was, I have orders for three more already. IF it does what I say it will.
Stay Charged!
Hump
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And don't forget the snubber, I used this type relay to switch the main for
the DC converter at 72V with a 10 ohm & 150uf 150V cap to squelch the fuzz
(otherwise it won't last long). - Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: Fet Switch (for heater etc) ; Also, Relay Question [maybe OT]
> Very good, on-topic response. I think this answers the original
> question, even (?).
>
> After a long read, back to adding to my already $6000 Digi-Key Fund
> donation for the AC EV cause.
>
> - Arthur
>
>
> > I'm quite fond of this type of relay:
> >
> >
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/itemDetailsRender.shtml?xi=xi&ItemId=1611684977&ccitem=
> >
> > Note that even though this relay isn't rated for high voltage DC, it
> > works just fine. They've been used by the thousands in power plants
> > for 125 and 250VDC applications at moderate current. It would work
> > just peachy for a heater contactor, especially if you use both sets of
> > contacts. This is just a suggestion and not a recommendation. Try it
> > before you bolt it into your EV.
> >
> > If I wanted to know if an automotive relay would work to control a 140
> > volt DC heater, I'd lash it up in the middle of the floor or wherever
> > and try it. I'd run power from my pack through a suitable fuse over
> > to the relay and heater. I'd wire up a toggle switch to the relay
> > coil, or even better, a cycle timer to automate the process, and then
> > cycle the relay to my heart's content. If the relay slags after the
> > first operation, well, nothing lost except the relay and a lot
> > learned. OTOH, if you find that it works OK, then you've answered
> > your own question.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a 36 volt charger (probably intended for golf cart use) made by
Quick Charge Corp in Oklahoma. I've realized that the batteries in my ET
are doing badly because the charger finish voltage was way too low...
about 40 volts. Looking inside, I found an an adjustment pot which
brought it up to 43 volts, which is still a little low and I wonder if
something has gone bad in the charger.
I'm trying to figure out the basic topology so I know how to
troubleshoot it: The charger uses a 72 volt center tapped transformer.
The tap goes to pack positive. The two ends of the coil each go to a
large transistor-like semiconductor package on the control board and the
outputs join together to go to pack negative. The transformer also has a
small coil for about 22 volts that goes through a bridge rectifier - I
assume this to be a power source for the control circuitry.
The circuitry consists of the two power semiconductors, a handful of
discrete resistors, capacitors, a small transistor, and a 6-pin chip
labeled "TIL111 TI645". The marking on the PCB near this chip indicates
it may produce a 16 volt square wave. The power semiconductors are
marked "87L USA HIS235" which I can't find at Mouser, DigiKey etc.,
nor with Google. And being made in USA (!) I assume to be old and likely
obsolete.
So, can anyone speculate what type of devices these may be? I'm thinking
I may need to watch things on an oscilloscope to see what is happening,
but I'd like to have some clue what I'm looking for.
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Fowler writes:
> Perhaps now is a good time for us Australian EV users and planners to
> contact our MPs (while this is fresh in their minds...) and ask them
> what their plans are for saving oil in Aus, and hint that offering
> incentives to hybrid and EV drivers like free parking, free tolls, use
> of T2 and Bus lanes would cost practically nothing, but give great
> publicity to the enviro cause :-)
Yes, the cost is negligible so any benefit would be a win in an MPs eye,
especially since it'd make great press.
> (Whaddya reckon Claudio, we should give Louise Markus a call?)
Hmm... there's a couple things I'll tell you privately in that regard before
taking that route.
Personally, I think lobbying at the State level would be more effective (since
they are all Labor, so more likely to back a Federal Labor vision, and are
ultimately responsible for roads anyway).
Cheers,
Claudio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Oct 20, 2005, at 8:49 AM, Don Cameron wrote:
- somewhat of a pain to swap an auto for 4 speed and clutch
Hi Seth,
If you opt for the 626 don't forget that you might be able to use a
manual tranny out of a Ford. When I was looking for a donor to
replace our old 626 (http://convert.jerryrig.com/) a fellow from the
Probe Talk (http://probetalk.com/) wrote that the bell housing for
Probe transmissions, '89-'92, were the same as my '85 Mazda. Sure
enough our "new" '90 Probe transmission mates to the old ADC adaptor
perfectly!
Don't know how much of an issue it will be to adapt the mounts as I
don't have both transmissions to compare, but it does open up your
selection a bit.
Our old 626 wasn't converted to be a high range vehicle. My commute
at the time was 12 miles round trip (even less now). So I went with
12v lead, plenty of range and I got around 3 years out of a pack.
Still, since you are starting without any existing parts/adaptors and
want more range you ought to consider a lighter car like others are
suggesting.
-Jerry
http://www.evconvert.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Correction. Cliff does not get 100% regen. I meant to say his goal is to
use regen 100% instead of brakes. I am not sure what his regen energy
recovery percentage is.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Don Cameron
Sent: October 19, 2005 6:22 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: motor selection - am I missing something? - correction
Robert, as for regen, there has been lots of measurement work by Victor and
others. I have two stage regen, off throttle 10Amps, touch brake an
additional 20Amps. I get from 4-7% regen gain for my in town driving. I
live in a coastal town with some small hills. It is a different style of
driving: anticipating stops, coasting with slight pressure on throttle (to
avoid off throttle regen)
Victor gets better regen, because he has a regen pot. I think he might get
around 10%, ask him to be sure.
Cliff (from ProEV.com) in his race car uses a huge amount of regen (maybe
near 100%), not sure how possible/practical this would be for a road going
car, but it is nice to push the envelope.
As for the spreadsheets, please be comfortable with the calculations before
using. Some people have found errors, which I have corrected, but mistakes
may still lurk. Best to validate against other sources.
For acceleration tests, and racing lap times I have abandon using
spreadsheets and purchased an inexpensive product called CarTest2000. It
has worked out well for comparision tests between different motor/controller
and drivetrain tests. Between hundreds of simulations with this product and
testing with the New Beetle, I am convinced to use a transmission and clutch
in future EV projects - to get the best acceleration performance and best
top speed.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
_____
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Robert Baertsch
Sent: October 19, 2005 4:13 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Fwd: motor selection - am I missing something? - correction
I've fixed the amp calculation the battery's 1Ahr rating is 80AH.
Begin forwarded message:
From: Robert Baertsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: October 19, 2005 3:58:40 PM PDT
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: motor selection - am I missing something?
Hi All,
I'm trying to decide between the Solectria AC55 and Siemens 5133W18 motors
(and MES - please send efficiency specs if you have them)
My primary requirement for the vehicle is an 80 mile range. I'm using 26
80AH (1AHR) AGM batteries and looking for the most efficient
motor/controller. Considering the trip takes 90 minutes, my batteries should
be able to provide 51 amps for 90 minutes assuming 80% DOD excluding gains
from regen and losses from hills.
(80AH 1AH Rating * 0.80 (DOD) * 60/90 (90 minute run)) = 51 amps
I've looked at the torque curve for both motors and determined that they are
both powerful enough, so to calculate my power usage I think I only need to
look at the efficiency of the motor and controller. Since the max current
ratings are well above my operating current. Can I ignore the continuous
current requirement of the motor assuming my batteries can deliver the max
required by the motor?
Assuming I run the motor at peak efficiency at highway speeds the AC55 would
give me more range:
Siemens motor + controller = 84%
AC55 motor + DMOC = 89-91% (assuming 93% motor and 96-98% for controller)
MES motor = ?
The AC55 weighs 50lb extra but considering the car+batteries weigh 3700lbs,
the motor power density calculation seems insignificant.
Can I assume the motor efficiency remains the same as the wind / hill drag
changes, assuming I maintain the same RPM?
Has anyone evaluated regen efficiency?
Note: I'm going to borrow a GPS and do Don Cameron's cool energy calc for my
route to make sure my battery sizing is ok, but the motor decision doesn't
seem to depend on that.
Does any of this make sense?
-Robert Baertsch
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
*********START OF MEETING ANNOUNCEMENT***********
Topic: EV Tires for Dummies
How LLR Tires Can Make a Difference
Date: Saturday, Oct 22, 2004, 10 am to 12 noon.
Location: Alameda First Baptist Church, 1515 Santa
Clara Ave, Alameda
Visitors welcome, open to the public.
Another topic in Scott Cornell's series "EV
componients for Dummies", to help anyone understand
what makes an EV tick and how to keep it ticking. This
time we are focused on (literally) where the rubber
meets the road - Low Rolling Resistance Tires.
The discussion and presentation will discuss such
issues as:
*What makes a tire LLR
*To what extent is performance improved
*Sizing, pricing and availability
and more...
Come join us, and also discussion and photos from the
recent EV Rallies and other events. We will have EVs
on display in the parking lot after the meeting, and
plenty of opportunities for Q&A.
http://www.ebeaa.org
**********END OF MEETING ANNOUNCEMENT************
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Seth!
This is the latest I heard of where it will air. The segment features
the NEDRA Power of DC race held this past June.
Discoveries This Week (US)
Friday, October 21st, at 8 p.m.
Science Channel (US)
Sunday, October 23rd at 8 p.m.
Discovery Civilization (Canada)
Monday, October 24th, at 11 p.m.
If you don't have these channels you can still download the 6 minute
segment entitled "Electric Dragster" at
http://www.exn.ca/dailyplanet/view.asp?date=9/19/2005
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
49mpg says it all.
No it doesn't. First off, you're taking the seller's word for that 49
mpg. From what I'm reading, this seller's word isn't reliable, either.
He says, "*/Fuel efficiency is even superior to many Hybrid cars."
/*Really? Since he obviously isn't using the EPA figures and instead is
using 'his' mileage number of 49, let's compare that to 'my' Honda
Insight, one of those many hybrids he compares to....I get up to 92 mpg
over long distances in my Insight when slowing down to 57-62 mph, nearly
double his mileage! Driving without 'trying' for the best mileage, my
Insight delivers 65-68 mpg in the city and about 75-80 mpg on the
freeway. Friends of mine who own 4 passenger Priuses get up to 70 mpg on
the highway when trying, and about 55 when just driving...again, better
than his 'superior 49 mpg'. In fact, if my Insight were to ever dip that
low in mpg, I'd have to consider what repairs were needed to fix the
problem! The hybrids while trouncing this Renault's touted high mpg,
also will run circles around this poky Le Car, too. The Le Car was rated
0-60 in nearly 19 seconds...the new Prius does it in 10, as does the
Insight. About the only hybrid he can claim superior mileage over, might
be the new breed of hybrid SUVs....that's about it!
If my memory serves me correctly, the Le Car was rated at around 30 mpg
when it was available new, not 49 mpg. That 30 mpg was also rated at
the current 55 mph speed limit for the highway rating. A Datsun 1200
from 7-9 years earlier, when the speed limit used for the highway rating
was a much higher 70 mph, was rated at 35 mph at that speed. Slowing a
1200 down to 55 mph resulted in real life mpg figures of 52 mpg, but
unlike the Le Car that couldn't even reach 90 mph (due to its anemic
engine), the 1200 was road tested at 97 mph top speed....that's a huge
difference.
Sorry to base it that way but real mpg doesn't lie. It always
translates into longer range. That's usually my criteria in selecting
an EV.
Not true. Sorry Lawrence. Let's see...the new V6 Hybrid Accord gets 31
mpg @55 mph, so that's about the same as the Le Car's 30 EPA rating. The
Accord however, is twice the size, and nearly twice as heavy at around
3100 lbs. You think a converted new Accord could match the miles per
charge of a converted little Le Car? Based on your criteria of using
'real mpg' it should be able to, but in reality, there's no way the
larger, far heavier Accord could ever come close to going as far on a
charge as a little Le Car.
Here's the scoop on the Le Car.....contrary to the seller's story, this
car was a sales flop in the USA. People found it homely, the dealer
network behind it sucked, parts were very hard to get, and it was plain
weird with its 3 bolt wheels, frumpy styling, and sluggish, unacceptable
performance. The Japanese econoboxes routinely trounced it in all
categories, from EPA fuel mileage to 0-60, to top speed, to reliability.
On the other hand.....having been directly involved with too many Le Car
conversions to list here, there 'are' some highly redeemable qualities
to admire. That same 'frumpy' styling does look unique on today's roads.
The body structure is impressive and very durable. It has an unusually
l-o-n-g- wheel base for such a compact car, thus it rides super smooth
and takes bumps in stride. It has four wheel torsion bar suspension that
is super easy to adjust for weight changes due to heavy batteries. The
part I like the best....it is a front-mid engine design, where an
interior console bulge allows the engine to sit 'behind' the transaxle
in a more midship location.
There was a super rad version of the Le Car, the R5 Turbo! Same basic
body, but with HUGE changes, that included the engine sitting behind the
driver, monster rear wheel flares under which were stuffed fat rear
tires, racing brakes, killer suspension, etc. It was a factory hot rod
for the period, and they are very collectible these days.
Conclusion....the Le Car got its 30 mpg at the cost of horrible
performance that was largely unacceptable for American drivers. It's
mileage wasn't anything to brag about compared to other economy cars,
and in fact, was worse than most of them. It was an unpopular car, it's
parts are near to impossible to find today, just like when the car was
still new, and it doesn't make any better conversion than would a Civic,
a Datsun, or any other smaller compact type car.
The fact that US Electricar chose the Le Car as its base vehicle to
convert and sell to the general public as an EV was amazing! Let's see,
how do we go about getting the public to accept an electric car?
OK...first, let's base our electric car on the country's most unpopular
small car, the Renault Le Car! Yeah, that's a great idea, let's start
behind the curve with a car that's already a hard sell. Now, let's put
nearly 1000 lbs. of low performance wet cell batteries in it, at a lowly
48V, and to make the car even more miserable, let's equip it with a
growling, moaning SCR based controller. If the stock gas powered car was
a slug at 1900 lbs. with its under-powered 4 banger, it should really be
a performance champ weighing 1000 lbs. more with 20 hp! (batteries
sagged to 40V with a 500 amp controller).
What were they thinking?
All this said, Le Cars can and have made nice conversions for many. I
had a lot of fun co-designing and building the bright yellow 192V Optima
powered 'Screaming Yellow Zonker' Le Car still listed in the EV Photo
Album. Knowing it was an underdog vehicle, we wanted to see how far we
could take it towards being a pocket rocket type vehicle. Another fun Le
Car conversion I had my hand in, was the late Dick Finley's 'Rocket
Renault'. I still have fond memories of the then 77 year old youngster
blistering the front tires as he would blow away V8 machines in the stop
light drag races he'd get into on 82nd Street! People talked about that
crazy old man in his sleeper electric car that roasted its tires....fun
memories! What a blow to a young man's virility it was, to get blown off
by a grey haired senior citizen in a frumpy battery powered Le Car!
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone here just hooked up the Ice's radiator and used this to cool
the Zilla ? Run a 12vlt fuel pump on the bottom of the radiator to push
the water/antifreeze thru the Zilla ?
Im considering this but wanted to make sure this will work ok.. or thoughts
CWarman
Roland Wiench wrote:
One more thing, I forgot to tell you about my setup.
Make sure that the fill tank water level is higher than the Zilla. This makes sure that there is no air entrapment and its easy to fill. I am using a standard remote fill nylon tank that is used for some cars that have a radiator lower than the engine.
Its has a 3/4 outlet out the bottom side that connects right to the pump and a
3/8 inlet that goes in the top, but pipes down below the water level in the
tank so air is never expose in the lines.
The tank I'm using is a GM tank for a Pontiac that happens to have a level sensor in it, that you can connect up to a 12 Volt LED.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: kluge<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: Zilla Cooling
Thanks for all the feedback from "the real world." Oddlt enough, I've noticed that how things have actually acted in the past tends to be a
better predictor of future behavior than theory. :) The radiator goes back into the design...
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Im about to try and install the vacuum pump i bought from Randy at
canev.com but my 1997 S10 has ABS system hooked to it. There are two
tubes coming from the resevior to the ABS and three coming back out of
hte ABS system so not sure what to do here. Or is it best to just hook
up the vaccuum pump and just disconnect the power to the ABS and leave
it in place.
Thoughts ?
Cwarman
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that is my recollection of what the TV promo spot said. I can't verify it,
though.
Seth
On 10/20/05, Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Thanks Seth!
>
> This is the latest I heard of where it will air. The segment features
> the NEDRA Power of DC race held this past June.
>
> Discoveries This Week (US)
> Friday, October 21st, at 8 p.m.
>
> Science Channel (US)
> Sunday, October 23rd at 8 p.m.
>
> Discovery Civilization (Canada)
> Monday, October 24th, at 11 p.m.
>
> If you don't have these channels you can still download the 6 minute
> segment entitled "Electric Dragster" at
> http://www.exn.ca/dailyplanet/view.asp?date=9/19/2005
>
> Chip Gribben
> NEDRA Webmaster
> http://www.nedra.com
>
>
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Rush [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> What do magnetic blowouts do? How do they function?
Basically all that magnetic blowouts are is magnets located near the
load carrying contacts.
How they work is by attracting or repulsing the arc that forms between
the contacts when they separate. By forcing the arc to travel (bend)
over a longer path instead of the shorter direct path between the
contacts, the effect is the same as having increased the spacing between
the open contacts. This allows a higher voltage to be switched reliably
than would otherwise be possible with the same physical contact
spacing/arrangement.
Note that relays rated for switching DC typically also use a different
contact material than the same relay with an AC-only rating.
Cheers,
Roger.
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You didnt put the Zilla1k inside of your alum box ?
Cwarman
Ricky Suiter wrote:
I've got my hairball, shunt, contactor, DC/DC converter and two fuse blocks in a custom made alluminum box under the hood. I have it where the top easily slides under a flange and the other end is held in with a latch. Rubber grommets are in every place where wires are going in or out, but it's not 100% weather sealed, however it would easily survive a spritz down. It got it's first test yesterday in some decent rain (it doesn't rain in Arizona much), and so far so good.
Not sure you'd necessarily need air flow through it, but it wouldn't hurt. In
my case the alluminum acts like a big heat spreader. The only thing that gets
really hot is the DC/DC, and it seems to be doing alright.
Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Wouldnt it be nicer to have some type of element controlled box to place
all the electronics inside of that mounted under the hood? Coudl have a
12vlt fan pumping air thru it etc ?
Living in northern Maine im nervous about the elements so im trying to
come up with a solution..
FYI,
Got my warp 9 installed today into the S10......man this is fun!
CWarman
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
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I've done it on occasion. I've even stopped at a billboard that had
an outlet, put in enough juice to get home and stuck a dollar bill
inside the cover of the disconnect box.
I don't see any negative image associated with this. In fact, I bet
the clerks at the C-stores you might stop at look forward to your
coming in. That couple of bux goes in their pockets, no doubt. They'd
probably like for you to stop by ever day!
John
On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:06:17 +1000, "djsharpe"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Today I did a 72k (40 miles) trip in my little Diahatsu EV involving 2
>stops where I had business for about 2 hours each. I did a partial
>charge at each, free at one ( I give them free consultations) and the
>other I gave $2-about twice what the power is worth. What do you all
>think about topups? Im concerned that perhaps this gives EVs a bad name
>or the driver appears to be a user! Has anyone ever bought power from a
>gas stop to get home? There is no doubt that the batteries will be
>better served by partials en route though.
>David
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
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I was wondering if anyone had come up with a system
that would defrost the front window with 120 v ac at
the mains, before leaving home or work, and then
switching to battery mode.
What is the most efficient way to do this?
I'm not too worried about driving around at -20F here
in Fairbanks, AK with no heat (I have warm clothes) I
just worried about the windshield.
Thanks!
__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
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see comments below
Assuming I run the motor at peak efficiency at highway speeds the AC55
would give me more range:
Siemens motor + controller = 84%
AC55 motor + DMOC = 89-91% (assuming 93% motor and 96-98% for
controller)
MES motor = ?
I don't know where you got that efficiency figure for the siemens motor
from, but I believe it's incorrect.
It is from Victor's website on the performance simulations for the
Mazda MX6 with the 5133WS18.
Last I checked the siemens peak efficiency (motor & controller) was
over
90%. In fact I believe it's closer to 94%.
Where did you get that from?
Can I assume the motor efficiency remains the same as the wind / hill
drag changes, assuming I maintain the same RPM?
You could, but you'd be wrong :-)
Maintaining a constant RPM while changing drag will cause changes in
current which change the efficiency.
More drag = more torque = more current.
I'm aware the current changes, but how does the efficiency change if
you keep the same RPM with higher current?
[assuming that you do not exceed the rating of the motor or controller]
If I'm reading the power curves properly, the torque is a maximum and
that implies that the efficiency is constant at a particular RPM.
AC55 curve
http://www.azuredynamics.com/pdf/AC55%20-%20June%202005.pdf
Siemens curves
http://www.metricmind.com/data/performance.zip
Has anyone evaluated regen efficiency?
The effects are pretty minimal.
Regen can ONLY recover the extra energy required to accelerate, and/or
climb hills.
The energy used to maintain speed, overcome friction/drag is gone and
can
NOT be recovered. Generally, this energy represents the majority of
the
energy used.
As far as how much of the extra energy used for accelleration/hills you
can recover. You take the energy required and subtract the losses in
your
tires, drivetrain, motor/controller, battery charge efficiency,
motor/controller, drive train, tires.
If you are paying attention, you'll notice I mentioned tires, drive
train,
motor/controller twice.
This is because the energy has to go out of the batteries, through the
motor/controller, drivetrain, and tires in order to accelerate/climb
hills. Then for regen it needs to come BACK through the tires,
drivetrain, motor/controller and then charge the batteries.
When charging the batteries you also loose energy because you have to
charge them at a higher voltage that you get out when discharging them.
So, generally you recover approx 50% of the extra energy, which is
typically only a small portion of the energy used in your commute. If
you
assume the extra energy used for acceleration/hills represents 10% of
total energy expended, then you get 5% back.
I agree, It would be nice if someone could share their data on this.
Don Cameron's Terrain And Energy spreadsheet is an excellent start and
once he fixes the Hill force term it should be possible to do some
modeling of this.
see here: http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_EstimatingPowerNeeds.html
-Robert
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The fact that US Electricar chose the Le Car as its base vehicle to convert
and sell to the general public as an EV was amazing! Let's see, how do we
go about getting the public to accept an electric car? OK...first, let's
base our electric car on the country's most unpopular small car, the
Renault Le Car! Yeah, that's a great idea, let's start behind the curve
with a car that's already a hard sell. Now, let's put nearly 1000 lbs. of
low performance wet cell batteries in it, at a lowly 48V, and to make the
car even more miserable,
What batteries did they use? Eight T-105's ( 48 V pack ) would be 496 lbs.
The heaviest ( per volt) batteries I can think of are the T-145's. Eight of
these ( at 72 lbs each) would still be only 576 lbs.
Did they use "buddy pairs" of 6 volt floodies? That would be about 1000 lb
total pack weight.
If they did that, no wonder the car was a dog. But, you would expect pretty
good range.
Phil
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mike golub wrote:
I was wondering if anyone had come up with a system
that would defrost the front window with 120 v ac at
the mains, before leaving home or work, and then
switching to battery mode.
What is the most efficient way to do this?
I'm not too worried about driving around at -20F here
in Fairbanks, AK with no heat (I have warm clothes) I
just worried about the windshield.
Don't exhale. Problem solved.
Serio, I one tried to use an ordinary heating pad (plastic coated,
removing the cloth cover) to in-a-hurry defrost/deice my windshield in
Chicago. It worked, but did not beat the ICE warmup time by much.
Of course, UL does not approve (or underwrite), but I would think a
large heating pad or electric blanket would do. It's just resistive
wire. Putting those household items on your inner windshield should do
it, but because of the inevitable air pockets you wouldn't get the same
effect as a rear-window defrost heating element.
Then there is always the hair dryer or heat gun...
Your message implies, however, that you have an onboard defroster
already? And you want to use that system without tapping your vehicle's
drive power? Need more info on the "battery mode" defroster...
Regards
Jim
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Hi all,
I sent off quick emails to both my State and Federal MPs, essentially
saying the I'd read what Kim Beazley had to say, and wanted to know what
their party's response to it was.
I'll post to the list any meaningful replies.
(I've also had an off-list response suggesting I should also ask about
tariffs on importing EV parts - good idea)
Mark
P.s. - list admins - is this starting to get into off-topic political
territory?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Claudio Natoli
Sent: Thursday, 20 October 2005 11:16 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Beazley outlines Labor's energy policy
Mark Fowler writes:
> Perhaps now is a good time for us Australian EV users and planners to
> contact our MPs (while this is fresh in their minds...) and ask them
> what their plans are for saving oil in Aus, and hint that offering
> incentives to hybrid and EV drivers like free parking, free tolls, use
> of T2 and Bus lanes would cost practically nothing, but give great
> publicity to the enviro cause :-)
Yes, the cost is negligible so any benefit would be a win in an MPs eye,
especially since it'd make great press.
> (Whaddya reckon Claudio, we should give Louise Markus a call?)
Hmm... there's a couple things I'll tell you privately in that regard
before taking that route.
Personally, I think lobbying at the State level would be more effective
(since they are all Labor, so more likely to back a Federal Labor
vision, and are ultimately responsible for roads anyway).
Cheers,
Claudio
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