EV Digest 4842
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: clutchless vw
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) 52 mile follow-up
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) Re: window defrost
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: clutchless vw
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re:123 STREET E CLUB
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Autoclutching an EV, was Re: clutchless vw
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Re: clutchless vw
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: can a plane be an electric vehicle (at least a little bit)?
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: clutchless vw
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Re: can a plane be an electric vehicle (at least a little bit)?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) RE: Autoclutching an EV, was Re: clutchless vw
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: charger woes, obsolete parts
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Autoclutching an EV, was Re: clutchless vw
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Exhaust in Translation
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) 123 E club
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Autoclutching an EV, was Re: clutchless vw
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Re: clutchless vw
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Current Eliminator News
by "rcboyd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Autoclutching an EV, was Re: clutchless vw
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Autoclutching an EV, was Re: clutchless vw
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: charger woes, obsolete parts
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: can a plane be an electric vehicle (at least a little bit)?
by "rcboyd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Current Eliminator News
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Autoclutching an EV, was Re: clutchless vw
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
25) RE: Autoclutching an EV, was Re: clutchless vw
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: 123 E club
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
27) Re: clutchless vw
by Jimmy Argon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: 123 STREET E CLUB
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: can a plane be an electric vehicle (at least a little bit)?
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: 123 STREET E CLUB
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
31) Re: 123 STREET E CLUB
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
32) article: Tortoise Wins Greenpower Final
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
33) FW: [Oeva-list] Green cars all the rage at Tokyo Motor Show
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
> One option is to convert an "auto-stick" model. The auto-stick was a
> manual tranny with a vacuum motor to automatically operate the clutch.
> If you can't locate an original autostick tranny, you could certainly
> rig up an electric or vacuum-operated mechanism to disengage the clutch
> when a button on the shifter is pressed.
>
Since an EV doesn't need to have the clutch "feathered" like an ICE, seems a
simple "in-and-out" solenoid switch would work just as well as a pedal. Not
being a mechanic, I don't know if you could just mount a momentary switch to
the shift knob and get a solenoid with a long enough throw to pull on the
clutch cable, but the theory sounds plausible.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow, what timing! Sent off my response to Kitty and a few minutes later the
FedEx man has an over-night pouch with all the info and places to sign!
Whatever the range, I'll be happy to have a dependable EV again (and Blue Sky
Motors may see me again to maintain it). "Ampabout" entries as they occur.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Jerry,
The total cost, includes other systems that were added for experimental test.
The dash indicators and controls was for many other systems that was in this
car, one was a series hybrid engine that ran on hydrogen.
We came to the conclusion that a turbine engine would be best to run on
hydrogen than a 4 cycle engine.
If you take any classic car you want to keep for ever while maintaining it in
perfect condition, is going to cost about the same as buying a new car every 5
years. Today a complete stripping and painting a car cost about $5000.00 which
includes color sanding. This car has painted four times and the vinyl top
replaced four times.
Replacing the motor, controller, batteries, battery charger, and upgrading the
indications several times, cost about $20,000.00 each time.
The EV also have a complete set of spares parts, including motor, controller,
contactors and outboard charger. The only original item I retain is the
CableForm 400 amp contactors which are design for the voltage drop of the
battery pack. These contactors do not work off 12 VDC. These contactors use
the battery pack voltage. My battery pack voltage is 180 volts, so these
contactors will work from 230 volts and will not drop off until the voltage
gets down to 11 volts. They will come on when the voltage is above 150 volts.
These contactors are super expensive today. They cost as much as a Curtis
controller. The spare coils cost as much as 2 or 3 contactors that everybody
is using.
Its adds up, I just got done installing another 50 amp AC-DC Magnetic
Contactor to isolated the battery charger DC output to the batteries. This is
about $200.00. Also I am building a speed sensor that will install around the
motor drive shaft that uses a Dodge Split Collar with a aluminum disc with
magnets install into it. I haven't did the lath work yet, but the unmachine
parts and equipment is now over $100.00 for that.
I am installing a new Warp motor, motor adapter, balance flywheel, clutch,
pressure plate, bell housing, new motor mounts which will cost about $4000.00.
Yes, you could have a car for over 30 years, and do no maintenance on it and
just run it to the ground. Or you could have a 30 year old car and not drive
it and store it. I just sold one of my 1966 cars that had only 57 miles on it
to a collector that has a building full of them like Jay Leno.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: jerry halstead<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: window defrost
On Oct 20, 2005, at 10:21 PM, Roland Wiench wrote:
> To get to it just type using google:
>
> Roland Wiench 1977 El Camino Electro I
Found it at:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/470.html<http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/470.html>
Wow, that's quite the dash! Not sure what everything does/is but the
engine compartment looks very impressive.
You show a conversion cost of $88.5k (so far). Is that a typo?
-Jerry
http://www.evconvert.com/<http://www.evconvert.com/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Since an EV doesn't need to have the clutch "feathered" like
> an ICE, seems a simple "in-and-out" solenoid switch would
> work just as well as a pedal.
Yes, exactly. You also wouldn't be changing gears nearly as often as
with an ICE. Despite Benteaches' good experience with clutchless VW
conversions, my experience with Beetle trannies has been that reverse
gear does not appear to be synchromesh, and it could therefore be much
easier to shift between forward and reverse if the car has some means of
operating the clutch. My experience has also been that the shift forks
in Beetle trannies are not particularly durable (well, at least not if
you routinely speed-shift ;^), so while clutchless might work if one is
careful it is not an approach I would take if building a Beetle EV for
someone else to drive.
> Not being a mechanic, I don't
> know if you could just mount a momentary switch to the shift
> knob and get a solenoid with a long enough throw to pull on
> the clutch cable, but the theory sounds plausible.
I would do away with the clutch cable entirely as it is just one more
weak link to fail (the cable typically breaks near the threaded rod
portion that connects to the clutch throwout arm). Something like a
small motor turning a worm gear/threaded rod so that the arm that the
clutch cable originally pulled on is pulled forward when a button is
pressed could do the trick. There would need to be a limit switch to
halt the motor when the arm had moved sufficiently. Releasing the
button would reverse the motor such that it re-engages the clutch
(another limit switch could halt the motor when the arm had moved
sufficiently to the engaged position).
On any clutched conversion intended for someone else to drive, I would
definitely include some form of over-rev protection. Either use a
controller (such as a 'Zilla) with rev-limiting built in, or add an
afermarket rev-limiter (such as the "ISSPRO 2 Stage Over Rev Control
System" sold by Canadian Electric Vehicles).
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have recently been told that my S10 pickup will not qualify for the madman
100mph club SO.....................
The
123 street E club is now open Thats 123 MPH in the
QT.MILE With just 3
rules...................................................................................................
1) Insurance and license
2) off the shelf
lead batteries
3) follow NHRA
guidelines
$1000 to the 1st EV there (myself excluded)Then a THEY
JUST DONT GET IT TROPHY from there on.
DENNIS BERUBE
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> On any clutched conversion intended for someone else to drive, I would
> definitely include some form of over-rev protection. Either use a
> controller (such as a 'Zilla) with rev-limiting built in, or add an
> afermarket rev-limiter (such as the "ISSPRO 2 Stage Over Rev Control
> System" sold by Canadian Electric Vehicles).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
or, if using a cheaper, Curtis-type controller, just cut the potbox signal when
the clutch is out. Would a solenoid not have enough oomph to connect to the
clutch lever directly?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If it is preferred to drive without clutch as is best for your friend,
an AC setup may be ideal. No gear switching needed at all, so no clutch
necessary as well. Does not need any extra contactors to go
in reverse either.
Moreover, you can easily set it up off-throttle regen so that 95%
of the time she won't have a need to touch the brake pedal either.
Victor
john wrote:
A friend wants me to build her a VW bug conversion. Problem is she
has one leg in a brace and can't use the clutch. I know she could go
clutchless and put into gear before taking off but I was wondering if
a set up like my Citicar would work on a VW? Using contactors for
forward and reverse? Any thoughts would be welcomed.
John in Tucson.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Isn't H2 the best fuel for use in flying crafts due to its amazing gravimetric
energy density?
http://xtronics.com/reference/energy_density.htm
Thanks!
On Fri, Oct 21, 2005 at 12:53:14AM -0700, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> I don't believe that electric or solar electric powered airplanes are a
> viable alternative, yet.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> If it is preferred to drive without clutch as is best for your friend,
> an AC setup may be ideal. No gear switching needed at all, so no clutch
> necessary as well. Does not need any extra contactors to go
> in reverse either.
>
> Moreover, you can easily set it up off-throttle regen so that 95%
> of the time she won't have a need to touch the brake pedal either.
>
> Victor
Yes, but you are talking about someone who wants an old VW Bug converted - got
to suspect they aren't in the market for something that runs many thousands of
dollars. Might get by cheaper with SepEx equipment from a dead forklift.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Isn't H2 the best fuel for use in flying crafts due to its amazing gravimetric
> energy density?
>
> http://xtronics.com/reference/energy_density.htm
The asterisks say uncontained - avgas tanks can be pretty light.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> or, if using a cheaper, Curtis-type controller, just cut the
> potbox signal when the clutch is out.
Possible, but not as straightforward as you might first think. The
Curtis controller will shutdown if the throttle pot resistance goes
outside of a certain range, so you cannot simply "cut" the signal
entirely by shorting the pot when the clutch is disengaged (now, it may
be that the Curtis only checks the throttle pot value at the time KSI is
applied, in which case you could short the pot as long as you kept the
pedal pressed to keep KSI applied, but if you released the throttle (as
most of us would, most of the time), then the controller might be
disabled if you try to reapply throttle before the clutch is fully
re-engaged). So, you have to leave some amount of throttle signal, and
have to set this amount to be something low enough that the unloaded
motor will not overspeed. With a 'C' ("whiner") Curtis, this will also
likely mean that the car will emit that dreaded whine each time the
clutch is disengaged, which may or may not be a bad thing.
> Would a solenoid not
> have enough oomph to connect to the clutch lever directly?
I'm sure there are probably solenoids out there that are up to the task,
however, I haven't seen one with a long enough throw (the eye on the
throwout arm moves about 2" from engaged to disengaged), nor have I seen
one beefy enough to exert the force required (if memory serves, most
people would be hard-pressed to operate the throwout lever by hand).
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and Craig Emmerick and Evan Tuer wrote some
excellent tips:
> as well as the 87L USA HIS235 ...
> Sounds like a triac: 35A/200A, T0-218, isolated tab.
That makes sense. Having an isolated tab makes it all much more
plausible since both tabs go directly to the heat sink which goes to the
case. Is that perchance 35 A, 200 volts?
> The TIL 111 is a Phototransistor opto coupler. ...
> I read that as the rest of the number of the TIL111 - package info or
> something, you can probably ignore it.
> http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/TI/TIL111.pdf
Hmmmm.... with the base of the transistor not connected to anything. May
make sense as as I get my head around this...
> Over the years I have found thousands of bad electolytics and would bet
> you have one or more that has degraded. "Degraded" meaning they MAY
> have gone down in capacitance, but more importantly UP in effective
> series resistance.
Good to know, although in this case there are no 'lytics. Only a
handful of small (film?) capacitors on the control board.
Now to figure out what isn't working right... I'm wondering if one blown
triac could keep the output voltage down (kinda like one of two diodes
bad on a "dumb" charger?).
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 03:54 PM 10/21/2005, you wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> or, if using a cheaper, Curtis-type controller, just cut the
> potbox signal when the clutch is out.
Possible, but not as straightforward as you might first think. The
Curtis controller will shutdown if the throttle pot resistance goes
outside of a certain range, so you cannot simply "cut" the signal
entirely by shorting the pot when the clutch is disengaged (now, it may
be that the Curtis only checks the throttle pot value at the time KSI is
applied, in which case you could short the pot as long as you kept the
pedal pressed to keep KSI applied, but if you released the throttle (as
most of us would, most of the time), then the controller might be
disabled if you try to reapply throttle before the clutch is fully
re-engaged). So, you have to leave some amount of throttle signal, and
have to set this amount to be something low enough that the unloaded
motor will not overspeed. With a 'C' ("whiner") Curtis, this will also
likely mean that the car will emit that dreaded whine each time the
clutch is disengaged, which may or may not be a bad thing.
> Would a solenoid not
> have enough oomph to connect to the clutch lever directly?
I'm sure there are probably solenoids out there that are up to the task,
however, I haven't seen one with a long enough throw (the eye on the
throwout arm moves about 2" from engaged to disengaged), nor have I seen
one beefy enough to exert the force required (if memory serves, most
people would be hard-pressed to operate the throwout lever by hand).
Cheers,
Roger.
Not that it helps on the VW but. On a vehicle with a hydraulic clutch and
power steering it may be possible to just add a solenoid valve and a needle
valve or two (to adjust the engagement speed).
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Green cars all the rage at Tokyo Motor Show
The most buzzworthy attractions this week at the 39th Tokyo Motor Show
weren't the biggest or the most powerful but the most eco-friendly. Hoping
to dazzle drivers battered by high gas prices, automakers debuted a dizzying
array of low-pollution, high fuel-efficiency vehicles -- some electric, some
powered by hydrogen fuel cells, some with hybrid gas-electric motors, and a
few with combinations thereof. The big story behind the scenes, of course,
is the hefty can of whoop-ass opened by Japanese automakers Toyota and Honda
on their American counterparts over the last few years. Chastened by bad
financials and bad press, Ford, GM, and Chrysler ostentatiously greened
their rides, rolling out a number of shiny, gadget-filled concept models. In
practical terms, Honda and Toyota are still years ahead, but beleaguered
U.S. companies aren't giving up. "Is that [hybrid] race over?" asked one GM
VP. "Not at all."
straight to the source: The Japan Times, Kaho Shimizu, 20 Oct 2005
straight to the source: The New York Times, James Brooke, 20 Oct 2005
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Excellent! Another enticement for electric drag racers! Any objections
to me posting this challenge on other EV oriented sites?
This $1000 (while very difficult to win) should be a lot easier to win
than the one offered for the first EV to beat Current Eliminator! 8^)
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM/YM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I belive the Curtis controllers look at the voltage on the throttle input to
make sure it is in range. It's an analog function so it's not a case of looking
only at certain times. I know that it the throttle pot opens while the
controller is running that it will accelerate briefly and then shut down. You
can ask me how I know that ;)
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:54:28 -0700
Subject: RE: Autoclutching an EV, was Re: clutchless vw
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> or, if using a cheaper, Curtis-type controller, just cut the
> potbox signal when the clutch is out.
Possible, but not as straightforward as you might first think. The
Curtis controller will shutdown if the throttle pot resistance goes
outside of a certain range, so you cannot simply "cut" the signal
entirely by shorting the pot when the clutch is disengaged (now, it may
be that the Curtis only checks the throttle pot value at the time KSI is
applied, in which case you could short the pot as long as you kept the
pedal pressed to keep KSI applied, but if you released the throttle (as
most of us would, most of the time), then the controller might be
disabled if you try to reapply throttle before the clutch is fully
re-engaged). So, you have to leave some amount of throttle signal, and
have to set this amount to be something low enough that the unloaded
motor will not overspeed. With a 'C' ("whiner") Curtis, this will also
likely mean that the car will emit that dreaded whine each time the
clutch is disengaged, which may or may not be a bad thing.
> Would a solenoid not
> have enough oomph to connect to the clutch lever directly?
I'm sure there are probably solenoids out there that are up to the task,
however, I haven't seen one with a long enough throw (the eye on the
throwout arm moves about 2" from engaged to disengaged), nor have I seen
one beefy enough to exert the force required (if memory serves, most
people would be hard-pressed to operate the throwout lever by hand).
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't know if they have a bug because they're money limited
of because just love it no matter what. Rich enough
people drive bugs for fun or statement too, although
I suspect you're right in your assessment.
He asked for suggestions and alternatives to the clutch
which is technical question, so I gave my suggestion.
We weren't discussing the cost, and he did not put
a dollar limit on his potential solution.
Victor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If it is preferred to drive without clutch as is best for your friend,
an AC setup may be ideal. No gear switching needed at all, so no clutch
necessary as well. Does not need any extra contactors to go
in reverse either.
Moreover, you can easily set it up off-throttle regen so that 95%
of the time she won't have a need to touch the brake pedal either.
Victor
Yes, but you are talking about someone who wants an old VW Bug converted - got
to suspect they aren't in the market for something that runs many thousands of
dollars. Might get by cheaper with SepEx equipment from a dead forklift.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you had said "That's one hell of an accomplishment even if it had
been an ice vehicle" perhaps almost everybody would have understood what
you meant.
Bob Boyd
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 11:56 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Current Eliminator News
In a message dated 10/21/05 10:57:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< > That's one hell of an accomplishment even if it was an ice
vehicle.
Last time I checked, Current Eliminator wasn't an ICE vehicle. 8^)
http://austinev.org/evalbum/092.html
>>
Its not an ICE vech. just competing against them. Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All
(not sure who wrote)
> Would a solenoid not
> have enough oomph to connect to the clutch lever directly?
Many diesel engines use a shutdown solenoid, which on many vehicles is much
like a windscreen wiper motor. It is possible to add a second 'home'
position to a wiper motor (a friend has a bunch modified this way [up to 4
positions] on the mobile home he is building for lock releases and stuff).
So it would be possible to use a motor like this to operate the clutch,
albeit a bit of mucking about. There would be no clutch feathering, just
(press the button) in-out (release the button) out-in. Provided you have
access to the tools and materials, could be done very cheaply. What's your
time worth?
At 04:20 PM 21/10/05 -0500, Andre wrote:
Not that it helps on the VW but. On a vehicle with a hydraulic clutch and
power steering it may be possible to just add a solenoid valve and a
needle valve or two (to adjust the engagement speed).
Aah, but hydraulic steering uses hydraulic oil, hydraulic clutches use
brake fluid, so there is a compatibility issue.
My vote would be a bigger motor, with an external blower. Clutchless
design, 2nd gear around town, 3rd or 4th depending on speed requirements
for the highway. But that depends on who, where, what roads, on ramps to
highways, etc.. has to suit the environment. An EV may not even be
appropriate for the person wanting one if they can't fund one that suits
their needs.
Regards
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I belive the Curtis controllers look at the voltage on the
> throttle input to make sure it is in range. It's an analog
> function so it's not a case of looking only at certain times.
*Everything* in the Curtis series motor controllers is an analog
function! ;^>
I just wasn't sure if there was any sort of KSI edge or level detection
involved that defeated this check once KSI was applied and the check had
passed. For instance, the high-pedal lockout feature works this way: if
the throttle is pressed too far (too high resistance) when the KSI
switch closes, then the controller is disabled, however, once KSI is
present the throttle can be pressed to this point or beyond without
disabling the controller.
> I know that it the throttle pot opens while the controller is
> running that it will accelerate briefly and then shut down.
Good to know; this confirms that the check remains active even after KSI
is asserted and the controller is enabled.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 02:15 PM 21/10/05 -0400, Jim Coate wrote:
> The TIL 111 is a Phototransistor opto coupler. <snip>
Hmmmm.... with the base of the transistor not connected to anything. May
make sense as as I get my head around this...
The base of the output transistor is only connected where the circuit it is
in has reason to switch itself on from source, or pre-bias the opto for
sensitivity control.
The normal way is no base connection - the photons fron the led bias the
transistor on.
Now to figure out what isn't working right... I'm wondering if one blown
triac could keep the output voltage down (kinda like one of two diodes
bad on a "dumb" charger?).
Could do, see all sorts of wierd symptoms from simple faults.
Hope this helps
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When you develop an electric system that weighs in at total of three
hundred pounds, puts out a hundred horsepower for over three hours, and
can be recharged in 15 minutes, then you can compete with a Cessna 150
or Piper super cub.
Bob Boyd (Over 15000 hours in all kinds of aircraft from gliders to four
engine jets. WW2 fighter pilot. Aircraft mechanics aircraft and power
plant license, and Instructor and Airline transport pilot ratings.)
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 3:48 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: can a plane be an electric vehicle (at least a little bit)?
Is anyone familiar with work being done regarding fuel efficiency
improvements of personal or business aircraft? The incorporation of
solar electric or plug-in concepts within aviation is something that
I've been curious about for a long time and I'm very interested to chat
with people who are involved in this area. If anyone can advise about
resources related to alternative fuels for aviation, I would really
appreciate it.
Thanks,
Brad
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, my construction of that sentence was confusing.
I've known Dennis since the early 90's. GE sent him a
9" series motor that was used in one of his first
dragsters. I worked at GE and also sent him a
contactor (Dennis can correct me, but I think this was
his controller, on or off!). Dennis sent a Current
Eliminator T-shirt (which I still have, one of my
favorites with a few holes and kind of worn out).
It should be interesting to see what competition
Dennis gets with his new challenge.
Maybe Purple Haze a few tricks up its sleeve?
Good luck and keep up the best EV advertising
available.
Rod
--- rcboyd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If you had said "That's one hell of an
> accomplishment even if it had
> been an ice vehicle" perhaps almost everybody would
> have understood what
> you meant.
> Bob Boyd
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 11:56 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Current Eliminator News
>
> In a message dated 10/21/05 10:57:27 AM Pacific
> Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << > That's one hell of an accomplishment even if
> it was an ice
> vehicle.
>
> Last time I checked, Current Eliminator wasn't an
> ICE vehicle. 8^)
>
> http://austinev.org/evalbum/092.html
> >>
> Its not an ICE vech. just competing against them.
> Dennis Berube
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger,
Hmm, is the output of an analog comparator considered analog or digital? It
only has 2 states ;)
You used the "every" word so I had to give you a hard time.
take care,
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:57:37 -0700
Subject: RE: Autoclutching an EV, was Re: clutchless vw
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I belive the Curtis controllers look at the voltage on the
> throttle input to make sure it is in range. It's an analog
> function so it's not a case of looking only at certain times.
*Everything* in the Curtis series motor controllers is an analog
function! ;^>
I just wasn't sure if there was any sort of KSI edge or level detection
involved that defeated this check once KSI was applied and the check had
passed. For instance, the high-pedal lockout feature works this way: if
the throttle is pressed too far (too high resistance) when the KSI
switch closes, then the controller is disabled, however, once KSI is
present the throttle can be pressed to this point or beyond without
disabling the controller.
> I know that it the throttle pot opens while the controller is
> running that it will accelerate briefly and then shut down.
Good to know; this confirms that the check remains active even after KSI
is asserted and the controller is enabled.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hmm, is the output of an analog comparator considered analog
> or digital? It only has 2 states ;)
>
> You used the "every" word so I had to give you a hard time.
OK, you got me. I suppose you could have also pointed out that the
output devices in any PWM controller tend to operate in one of two
states if you really wanted to... ;^>
Have a good weekend,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 10/21/05 3:36:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Excellent! Another enticement for electric drag racers! Any objections
to me posting this challenge on other EV oriented sites?
............Post it any where you like the more competition the better
This $1000 (while very difficult to win) should be a lot easier to win
than the one offered for the first EV to beat Current Eliminator! 8^)
>>
Allthough the original $1000 was donated to the Denver Race track for the
Colombine shootings to allow high schoolers to attend the track free I have put
the offer back on the CE with one provision lead batteries!!! or until I get
liths in which case CE will be runing 7s Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John,
Really, you don't need a clutch AC or DC. I
drove/raced my Ghia (DC) with no clutch to save the
weight of the whole mechanism. On the road I just
left it in 2nd even from a stop, this is a good gear
for around town, I rarely used 3rd. If you want to
shift you "double accelerate" (to syncro the motor to
the trany output), they use to call it double clutch
before syncro tranys. When you get good, its not bad
upshifting, downshifting is harder but if your
stopping don't downshift until you've stopped (this is
good practice in an ICEmobile also).
When you need to shift in reverse your stopped anyway
- no problem. Your friend will have a clutch but if
someone wanted to eliminate it, the coupler is simple,
just use a keyed motor coupler and bolt on an old
clutch hub for the spline.
The most difficult skill is patience - take your time
and let the syncros do the work. A clutch is easier
but if you can't use one its not so bad without a
clutch.
If you have the bucks - Victor is right, go AC direct
drive, regen is great.
Jimmy
--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If it is preferred to drive without clutch as is
> best for your friend,
> an AC setup may be ideal. No gear switching needed
> at all, so no clutch
> necessary as well. Does not need any extra
> contactors to go
> in reverse either.
>
> Moreover, you can easily set it up off-throttle
> regen so that 95%
> of the time she won't have a need to touch the brake
> pedal either.
>
> Victor
>
> john wrote:
> > A friend wants me to build her a VW bug
> conversion. Problem is she
> > has one leg in a brace and can't use the clutch.
> I know she could go
> > clutchless and put into gear before taking off but
> I was wondering if
> > a set up like my Citicar would work on a VW?
> Using contactors for
> > forward and reverse? Any thoughts would be
> welcomed.
> >
> > John in Tucson.
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dennis wrote:
> 123 MPH in the QT.MILE
My plans:
~3,000 lb vehicle (hopefully a couple hundred lbs less)
348 volt pack of Exide Orbitals
2k Zilla
13" WarP motor
Slicks, gears, stout 5 speed, etc.
Will this run "the number"?
Currently, no low cost lithium, no general purpose or universal BMS,
no high power inverter, and a limited selection of out of production
new old stock water cooled AC motors...
What kind of performance could we ultimately have?
What about these little known off the shelf air cooled AC motors? Do
they have any type of performance potential(if we had a high power
inverter of course!)?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yep, that asterisk is there for a reason. H2 is the worst fuel for mass
density in the end. Tanks able to take that many PSI are quite heavy
and must be quite large per pound of hydrogen. When it's crygenically
liquified the tank size and pressure is much more practical but other
issues offset the benefits. Cooling down to near absolute zero and
storing it like this, installing a huge amount of tank insulation on the
craft, and having to bring in materials which won't crack under
cryogenic temps is a huge set of problems.
The very low weight/volume storage density problems of hydrogen are
compensated when fuel cells are used. The conversion process of fuel
mass to mechanical energy is far more efficient than combustion, so the
low fuel mass is not such an issue.
Danny
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Isn't H2 the best fuel for use in flying crafts due to its amazing gravimetric
energy density?
http://xtronics.com/reference/energy_density.htm
The asterisks say uncontained - avgas tanks can be pretty light.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 10/21/05 6:27:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Subj: Re: 123 STREET E CLUB
Date: 10/21/05 6:27:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ryan Stotts)
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Dennis wrote:
> 123 MPH in the QT.MILE
My plans:
~3,000 lb vehicle (hopefully a couple hundred lbs less)
348 volt pack of Exide Orbitals
2k Zilla
13" WarP motor
Slicks, gears, stout 5 speed, etc.
Will this run "the number"?
>>
**Its not what I am doing with my S10, but I sure do not have all the
answers. Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 10/21/05 6:50:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Subj: Re: 123 STREET E CLUB
Date: 10/21/05 6:50:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
In a message dated 10/21/05 6:27:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Subj: Re: 123 STREET E CLUB
Date: 10/21/05 6:27:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ryan Stotts)
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Dennis wrote:
> 123 MPH in the QT.MILE
My plans:
~3,000 lb vehicle (hopefully a couple hundred lbs less)
348 volt pack of Exide Orbitals
2k Zilla
13" WarP motor
Slicks, gears, stout 5 speed, etc.
#### SLICKS are not street legal###### in the 123 club
Will this run "the number"?
>>
**Its not what I am doing with my S10, but I sure do not have all the
answers. Dennis
>>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A racecar named the ‘Turbo Tortoise’ won the last weekend’s 2005
Greenpower Formula 24 National Final of the electric car event for
schools held at the UK’s Goodwood race circuit.:
http://www.autoindustry.co.uk/news/industry_news/21-10-05_11
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello All
The message below is forwarded from the OEVA list.
http://www.oeva.org/
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
Roy LeMeur
Olympia WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
From: Richard Dietzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CC: Richard Dietzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Oeva-list] Green cars all the rage at Tokyo Motor Show
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 16:06:24 -0700
First Post
Hello All-
The bit below is from, The Daily Grist, an Eco List with a sardonic to
sarcastic style.
gabh an latha,
Richard Dietzel
Eugene, OR
http://grist.org/etc/gristlist/2005/10/21/?source=daily
Exhaust in Translation
Green cars all the rage at Tokyo Motor Show
The most buzzworthy attractions this week at the 39th Tokyo Motor Show
weren't the biggest or the most powerful but the most eco-friendly. Hoping
to dazzle drivers battered by high gas prices, automakers debuted a
dizzying array of low-pollution, high fuel-efficiency vehicles -- some
electric, some powered by hydrogen fuel cells, some with hybrid
gas-electric motors, and a few with combinations thereof. The big story
behind the scenes, of course, is the hefty can of whoop-ass opened by
Japanese automakers Toyota and Honda on their American counterparts over
the last few years. Chastened by bad financials and bad press, Ford, GM,
and Chrysler ostentatiously greened their rides, rolling out a number of
shiny, gadget-filled concept models. In practical terms, Honda and Toyota
are still years ahead, but beleaguered U.S. companies aren't giving up. "Is
that [hybrid] race over?" asked one GM VP. "Not at all."
straight to the source: The Japan Times, Kaho Shimizu, 20 Oct 2005
straight to the source: The New York Times, James Brooke, 20 Oct 2005
_______________________________________________
Oeva-list mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/oeva-list
--- End Message ---
