EV Digest 4844
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: 2 cars, 4 options.
by "Jack Knopf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: 2 cars, 4 options. Both bad
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: OT: LEDs Will Replace "everything!"
by Shawn Rutledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: 123 STREET E CLUB
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: OT: LEDs Will Replace "everything!"
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) zilla cooling pumps on a saturday morning.
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Volts rabbit conversion: Transmission fluid.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: can a plane be an electric vehicle (at least a little bit)?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) can a plane be an electric vehicle (at least a little bit)?
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Meter polarity question
by "Mueller, Craig M" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: can a plane be an electric vehicle (at least a little bit)?
by Jimmy Argon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) White Zombie Returns to attempt 11's at PIR Tonight!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Lift-off at 6:00 Tonight at PIR!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Lift-off at 6:00 Tonight at PIR!
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: can a plane be an electric vehicle (at least a little bit)?
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: clutchless vw
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: OT: LEDs Will Replace "everything!"
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: PFC or 'Baby' Charger...
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: 2 cars, 4 options.
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: PFC or 'Baby' Charger...
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: OT: LEDs Will Replace "everything!"
by "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: 123 STREET E CLUB
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: can a plane be an electric vehicle (at least a little bit)?
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: 123 STREET E CLUB
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
25) Re: motor selection - AC55 vs Siemens
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: can a plane be an electric vehicle (at least a little bit)?
by Jimmy Argon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Keep an open mind, convert the Lincoln and Learn from it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: 2 cars, 4 options.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 10:25 AM
Subject: RE: 2 cars, 4 options.
: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 8:46 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: 2 cars, 4 options.
Greetings,
been googling, waiting for the mailman to bring the Brandt book, read
Electric Dreams...now I need some advice...
I have at this moment 2 donor cars in my driveway.
I'd like to hear if there is any sage advice out there.
1. My father's 1993 Mazda 626. The ICE needs main seals and timing belt,
$700 worth. It's mine as soon as the title turns up.
Hi Seth an' All;
2, 1989 Lincoln Town Car. It was donated to my synagogue,
and I haven't decided what to do with it. It's worth $50 by weight.
The Lincoln?? Well, whynot? You could do a Red Beastie 40 T 105's aboard,
like the Toyota pickup of that name done years ago. He clamed in excess of
100 miles, used it for towing OTHER EV's on trailers. I have fantesised
about Towncars, lincolns, See ENOUGH of them in NYC. They COULD be done.
As
for beefing them up, the folks that make stretch limos out of them must
get
hold of beefier springs brakes etc, a stretch would weigh more than a
standard limo, EVen electric. Finding a standard tranny, might be tricky,
though, guess ya COULD go with the auto that came with it?A 11 inch motor
by Warp would be just the thing.No tire burning thing, it would ooze along
like a Lincoln duz normally.The CD would be better than a pickup??
It would be the first Linc' on the EV Album, for sure!
My two Watts worth
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jack and All,
Just what do you want him to learn? How to build a useless
EV?
Anyone building a 4,000-5,000 lb EV deserves what they get,
an expensive pile that can't get out of it's own way.
EV's cost what they weigh so to get an economicly viable
EV, you must pay attention to weight, drag as it directly influneces cost .
Driving it way up so it's worse than an ICE and slow as molasses.
Or use an base glider with a much lower weight, good aero
and have a good, reliable, cost effective, quick EV. Your choice but I know
which one I'd go for.
The facts are a good lightweight glider can cost very little
as good cars with blown engines can be picked up for scrap prices. And it will
cut your EV drive parts prices in 1/2 and still get better range, speed.
It boils down to do you want a sucessful EV or a expensive,
slow pile. Not to mention the extra cost when battery replacement time rolls
around.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
Jack Knopf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Keep an open mind, convert the Lincoln and Learn from it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice"
To:
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: 2 cars, 4 options.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Adams, Lynn"
> To:
> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 10:25 AM
> Subject: RE: 2 cars, 4 options.
> : Wednesday, October 19, 2005 8:46 PM
>> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>> Subject: 2 cars, 4 options.
>>
>>
>> Greetings,
>> been googling, waiting for the mailman to bring the Brandt book, read
>> Electric Dreams...now I need some advice...
>>
>> I have at this moment 2 donor cars in my driveway.
>> I'd like to hear if there is any sage advice out there.
>>
>>
>> 1. My father's 1993 Mazda 626. The ICE needs main seals and timing belt,
>> $700 worth. It's mine as soon as the title turns up.
>> Hi Seth an' All;
>
>> 2, 1989 Lincoln Town Car. It was donated to my synagogue,
>> and I haven't decided what to do with it. It's worth $50 by weight.
>>
> The Lincoln?? Well, whynot? You could do a Red Beastie 40 T 105's aboard,
> like the Toyota pickup of that name done years ago. He clamed in excess of
> 100 miles, used it for towing OTHER EV's on trailers. I have fantesised
> about Towncars, lincolns, See ENOUGH of them in NYC. They COULD be done.
> As
> for beefing them up, the folks that make stretch limos out of them must
> get
> hold of beefier springs brakes etc, a stretch would weigh more than a
> standard limo, EVen electric. Finding a standard tranny, might be tricky,
> though, guess ya COULD go with the auto that came with it?A 11 inch motor
> by Warp would be just the thing.No tire burning thing, it would ooze along
> like a Lincoln duz normally.The CD would be better than a pickup??
>
> It would be the first Linc' on the EV Album, for sure!
>> My two Watts worth
>
> Bob
>
---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah I saw that yesterday; looks very interesting.
So basically quantum dots are a more efficient alternative to
phospors, I guess. (So far, white LEDs use phosphors, so their
mechanism of operation is much like a fluorescent tube.)
Wikipedia mentions that they could be used to build ~65% efficient
solar panels, too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_dot
Funny how this article says they were so surprised to get white light.
They must have just lost control of the size of the particles that
they made, and got a random assortment.
For monochrome light sources though (like taillights) it would appear
the alternatives are to form the quantum dots on a chip, and end up
with a more efficient alternative than the LED; or as the article
states to paint wavelength-sorted loose crystals on a surface and
excite them maybe in a similar way to an EL panel.
On 10/22/05, Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This should help energy consumption in EV Headlights. I hope.
>
> From:
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20051021/sc_space/accidentalinventionpointstoendoflightbulbs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Comon Dennis, don't be like that. Only 3 rules, remember? Besides, he will
likely have 2 wheels on the wheelie bars for a total of 4 anyway. Hey while
I am thinking about it, how did that 3 wheeled dragster run back a few
years? Did it handle Ok? Or was it a NHRA problem that kept it from being
pursued more? David.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 4:32 AM
Subject: Re: 123 STREET E CLUB
In a message dated 10/22/05 2:59:04 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Dennis,
I have these 2 big GE motors on the shelf from OJ-1. I've been thinking
about stuffing them in a street legal bike chassis along with my old
SVR's. If I can squeeze out 123 ( a very tall order considering my
overall best is 119 ) am I eligible? It seems that I would be within
the 3 rules. (Total Cost = ALOT of hrs + one old Z1 Kawasaki)
Shawn Lawless
>>
##### add a couple training wheels he he ha ha You need 4 tires on the
ground.
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/146 - Release Date: 10/21/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I didn't see where they made any tangible claims that indicated the
efficiency would be better than white LEDs or compact flourscents.
Currently compact flourescents and HID lights have better efficiency
than LEDs. But who knows what QDs could produce. Maybe they can figure
out how to pump them directly without using another LED (and at least we
want to be sure to get past this pumping with a UV laser!).
HID is an extremely efficient headlight, BTW. Expensive though. And
difficult to handle hi-lo beams on.
Danny
Shawn Rutledge wrote:
Yeah I saw that yesterday; looks very interesting.
So basically quantum dots are a more efficient alternative to
phospors, I guess. (So far, white LEDs use phosphors, so their
mechanism of operation is much like a fluorescent tube.)
Wikipedia mentions that they could be used to build ~65% efficient
solar panels, too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_dot
Funny how this article says they were so surprised to get white light.
They must have just lost control of the size of the particles that
they made, and got a random assortment.
For monochrome light sources though (like taillights) it would appear
the alternatives are to form the quantum dots on a chip, and end up
with a more efficient alternative than the LED; or as the article
states to paint wavelength-sorted loose crystals on a surface and
excite them maybe in a similar way to an EL panel.
On 10/22/05, Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
This should help energy consumption in EV Headlights. I hope.
From:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20051021/sc_space/accidentalinventionpointstoendoflightbulbs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wanted to get a quieter and smaller pump for my zilla and it was
friday. Fresno is a rotten town for getting parts for some reason. Most
retail stores decide on 1 or two part numbers of the same brand and all
stores compete on the same two part numbers.
There are exceptions. I found that we have a place called West Marine,
but you may have one in your city too, they have over 330 stores!
http://www.westmarine.com/
They had 20 different models from 2 different manfactures of pumps. And
I think this one is gonna be great.
I couldn't find it on they're site but here is a link
http://www.iboats.com/products/16/38845_jabsco_par_max_1_water_system_pump.html
Althought it is only rated at 1.1 gpm, (I gave up comparing pumps on gpm
and went to amps draw and 3/8 hose), there are some variables in gpm
that they don't reveal. This I think is at the 10psi, 2.9Amp data point.
if we can find the 42631 model it should be cheaper than the $59 I paid
because it wouldn't have the pressure switch
They also had xantrax stuff, great selection of heavy duty crimps for
the smaller #6,#4 wire and tubing and extension cords.
A better selection of twist-lock and better prices than home depot and
they are a nice safety yellow.
and this little do-hicky
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&classNum=311&subdeptNum=310&storeNum=9&productId=14773
yike what a url
product 14773, "Battery charger Inlet" that looks like it will fit in
the old gas filler hole.
All and all a good "fix my ev on saturday" source.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Got a Diesel Rabbit. I'm assuming it is geared a little lower. What is a
good synthetic to use. I'm thinking Royal Purple, Amsoil or Redline might
be options. What works well and lasts. Protecting the tranny would be nice
too.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Noel P. Luneau<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 9:43 AM
Subject: RE: can a plane be an electric vehicle (at least a little bit)?
There are some promising designs for both electric powered light
aircraft and electric sailplanes in development.
This is my favorite:
http://www.lange-flugzeugbau.com/english/menu/menu-akt.htm<http://www.lange-flugzeugbau.com/english/menu/menu-akt.htm>
A Lion powered 20 meter sailplane with a 56:1 glide ratio. Has a 13
minute silent motor operation. Even without the electric drive this is
one impressive machine. My 20 meter, 1974 ASW-17, could only achieve a
48:1 glide ratio.
Better battery chemistry and lighter, more efficiently designed, general
aviation aircraft are the answer. These will not come from Spam-can
Cessna but from innovative forward looking companies.
Noel (Sailplane pilot, Force owner and student)
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of rcboyd
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 4:04 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: RE: can a plane be an electric vehicle (at least a little bit)?
When you develop an electric system that weighs in at total of three
hundred pounds, puts out a hundred horsepower for over three hours, and
can be recharged in 15 minutes, then you can compete with a Cessna 150
or Piper super cub.
Bob Boyd (Over 15000 hours in all kinds of aircraft from gliders to four
engine jets. WW2 fighter pilot. Aircraft mechanics aircraft and power
plant license, and Instructor and Airline transport pilot ratings.)
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 3:48 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: can a plane be an electric vehicle (at least a little bit)?
Is anyone familiar with work being done regarding fuel efficiency
improvements of personal or business aircraft? The incorporation of
solar electric or plug-in concepts within aviation is something that
I've been curious about for a long time and I'm very interested to chat
with people who are involved in this area. If anyone can advise about
resources related to alternative fuels for aviation, I would really
appreciate it.
Thanks,
Brad
How about a 4000 lb electric aircraft that can fly all day and all night!!!
Bertrand Piccard & Brian Jones who design the first non-stop around the world
balloon flight, are now team together to build a electric plane that is solar
and battery power which will be capable of taking off and flying day and night.
Uses two plastic brushless motors made by a Swiss company.
The first test flights are to be in 2008.
See http://wwwsolar-impulse.com/<http://wwwsolar-impulse.com/>
I think it was in the 50's, that engineers told me that a electric vehicle
could never go over 50 miles. I told them that in the next century we will have
electric cars and trucks in all sizes and aircraft that will be electric that
will go across the country. In the turn of the century, they also said a craft
could not go to the moon, because the rocket exhaust has nothing to push
against.
If we think that is not possible and no experimentation, than we will not
advance our knowledge.
Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
These folks are trying. I know they've got unmanned drones:
www.acpropulsion.com
And these guys are doing some of the same, as well as making fast chargers
(PosiCharger) that juice the luggage tractors down at LAX:
www.aerovironment.com
Marv
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tim,
I ran into a similar anomaly with my fluke recently (i.e.
asymmetric readings based on polarity). I found it was a low 9v battery
in the meter (on my meter, it shows a small battery in the display to
indicate the internal 9v is low). After replacing - everything works as
advertised.
Please let me know if this is your problem too.
- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: Neon John [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 11:51 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Meter polarity question
I haven't worked on an 87 in so long I'm not sure my memory is correct
but... Most Flukes have a symmetry calibration adjustment. This
adjustment causes the meter to read exactly the same on both
polarities. That might be a problem but probably not.
More likely, what you're seeing is the effect of ripple on the meter's
A/D converter. Feed the meter through an RC network (say, 4.7k, 10uF)
and see what happens. The cap will filter the ripple and you should
get a constant reading each way. If not, then the symmetry adjustment
may need tweaking.
John
On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 22:30:13 -0700 (PDT), TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>While my charger is down for repairs I'm using my 12V
>charger to charge my batteries in pairs. This is
>taking quite a bit longer than I expected it to, but I
>don't have a choice right now. Anyway, I'm using a DMM
>to monitor the charging process. I moved the charger
>to the next pair and I put the meter leads across the
>battery. I inadvertently reversed the probes and I got
>a reading of -14.7V. This was higher than I expected,
>I switched the leads around and got a reading of
>12.5V. This was closer to what I expected to see. This
>was before I turned on the charger. I went to a pair
>that I had already charged and got the same difference
>when I switched polarity on the meter. What would
>cause this? I'm using a calibrated Fluke 87-III that I
>borrowed from work, it's no $10 Harbor Freight meter.
>Any thoughts?
>
>TiM
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
>http://farechase.yahoo.com
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One of the most abundant renewable energy sources is
methane, I am waiting for the methane fuel cell. The
energy companies will never develop this device
because they cannot corner the market on the source.
Imagine a vehicle rolling or flying, where normal
passenger "functions" could actually be used to extend
the range of the vehicle!
Jimmy
--- Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Noel P. Luneau<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To:
> ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 9:43 AM
> Subject: RE: can a plane be an electric vehicle
> (at least a little bit)?
>
>
> There are some promising designs for both electric
> powered light
> aircraft and electric sailplanes in development.
>
> This is my favorite:
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Last minute notice....Tim and I are headed back to PIR today, Saturday.
It's in the mid 70's, and what the heck, we're going to try for the
elusive 11's once again! We should be at the track today by 5:00 and be
the first ones through the gate. Can you say 1100 battery amps?
See Ya.....John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Wayland wrote:
Hello to All,
Just a quick early morning note to confirm that all systems are 'go'
for the Zombie's run at the 11's tonight at Portland International
Raceway.
Oh well.....no 11's! To keep this short, it was a weird day and a weird
night, too.
Best ET was 12.332 @ 103.67 mph. We only got 5 runs in and had to wait
on one round, two long hours to get another run in :-(
We 'did' manage to crank up the Zilla to 2000 amps in the series mode,
and even with lots of rear wheel spin, the front end came a full foot
off the ground and the car carried the tires about 50 feet....it's great
video!
I'll post a more detailed report later.
See Ya...John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wayland wrote:
> lots of rear wheel spin, the front end came a full foot
> off the ground and the car carried the tires about 50 feet
Sounds like it's got more potential then just high 11's? What do you
think it might run once you get it too hook?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am waiting for the methane fuel cell. The energy companies will
never develop this device because they cannot corner the market on the
source.
I'm not sure what you are basing this statement on. There are MANY
methane fuel cells in development by large corporations with many
prototypes in existance. The city of Portland Oregon had a waste methane
fuel cell installed over 5 years ago.
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM/YM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This whole discussion makes me a little uncomfortable. I've seen too many
cases where "civilians" (well meaning folks who are relatively
unsophisticated in mechanical and electrical maintenance) bought into EVs
with enthusiasm, and ended up bitter and disillusioned.
People are used to cars being appliances. What they expect in an EV is a
car they can drive just like their gas cars. What they ^get^ is often
something that (putting it politely) thrives on tinkering and which (putting
it honestly) no mechanic in town will touch. Unwilling and/or unable to do
much under the hood, the owners find themselves in deep water, just like
the fellow who recently posted here about his problems with a used GM or
Ford pickup (I forget which). They finally crawl up on the other shore,
shake themselves off, and quietly go back to driving the family dino-burner.
The poor EV sits in the garage or driveway for a few months or a few years.
With luck it's eventually sold to an EV hobbyist like one of us (for a
fraction of what the owner originally paid). Without luck, it ends up in a
boneyard, parted out, or is converted back to gas power by a backyard
mechanic.
It's great that folks like this want to drive electric, great that some of
us want to help them. But realize when you decide to help such a person by
helping him buy a conversion, or converting a car for him, that you're also
likely to become his mechanic. He's likely to have no other choice.
Persistent problems will be your fault. If you move away or no longer have
time to maintain the vehicle for him, your EV owner will be stuck. See
above for the possible result.
I'm coming round Robin Hood's barn here, but saying that there are people
who probably shouldn't own a conversion EV, no matter how enthusiastic they
are.
For folks with green tendencies but little or no mechanical aptitude, there
are some possible ICE options, even relatively low cost ones.
An example is a used '92 - '95 Honda Civic VX if in nonrusting states; these
met ULEV standards and make an honest 48 - 52 mpg. Some people get nearly 60
on the highway.
A Rabbit / Golf / Jetta diesel is not as clean on emissions and I'm not sure
I buy the greenness of biodiesel*, but a veggie-mobile might be worth
consideration, providing the person's mechanic doesn't pull down his
windowshades and turn off the lights when he sees one approaching.
Another possibility is an LPG conversion; same proviso.
With more money to spend, an older Prius might work out; maybe even a new
one or a Civic Hybrid if they have fairly deep pockets.
One more: a new CNG Honda Civic (I think they're selling them still or
again; someone please correct me if I'm wrong.)
EVs are wonderful, and I want to see more of them on the road. But as long
as they're not production EVs with dealers and mechanics who can fix them
with relatively little pain for the owner, it's supremely crucial to make
sure the potential owner is savvy enough to understand and care for the EV
himself or herself.
I missed the original post in this thread, so I don't know what the case is
here. I'm just issuing a caution to be aware of the potential pitfalls when
putting other folks into conversion EVs.
= = = = =
*Sorry if this offends. I know bio has its proponents. I have my reasons
to be skeptical of biodiesel, though. Please don't give me an argument. I
will NOT discuss this right now, and definitely NOT on the EV list. Again,
sorry.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 22 Oct 2005 at 9:32, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> This should help energy consumption in EV Headlights. I hope.
>
> From:
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20051021/sc_space/accidentalinventionpointstoendo
> flightbulbs
>
Interesting, but I have some questions about an article that makes
unqualified statements such as this:
> LEDs produce twice as much light as a regular 60 watt bulb and burn for
> over 50,000 hours.
Of course ^enough^ LEDs can "produce twice as much light as a regular 60
watt bulb" - but at what input power? And at what cost? Neither is stated.
(Saying they "burn" is rather inaccurate too, but that's about as common an
idiom as calling a flashlight cell a battery, so we'll let it go. ;-)
All that aside, it's hard to tell from this mass-consumption article how
much of a "breakthrough" this is, or how useful it might be for EVs.
Color LEDs are great, definitely an efficiency improvement partly because
there's no need to filter out undesirable wavelengths. Red and amber ones
already find widening use in cars. That includes such EVs as Victor's Honda
conversion and the prototype Toyota E-Com.
White LEDs are another matter. I've done some reading on this, when I was
thinking about putting LEDs on my Elec-Trak. From what I can tell, subject
to correction as I admit I don't follow this closely, current white LEDs
usually use a phosphor pasted over a blue LED. This cuts the efficiency
quite a bit. It's only been fairly recently that researchers have managed
to match the efficacy of a compact fluorescent lamp, and those are lab
samples, not production white LEDs.
Production white LEDs, at least the ones I've been able to find, seem to be
about as efficient as a household incandescent, or a bit better. The very
best ($$$) are about twice that efficacy (32-35 lpW).
To be fair, though, LEDs scale down much better than incandescents do. An
individual LED, or relatively low output cluster as used in, say, a
flashlight, ^does^ typically exceed the efficacy of an incandescent lamp
producing ^the same amount of light as the LED^, sometimes by quite a bit.
When you get to the 55 watt range of automotive headlights, current
production white LEDs are on shakier ground, IMO, and at an appreciably
higher cost (which automakers are NOT keen to embrace).
It's quite possible that eventually white LEDs will be used for headlamps,
most likely first for EVs, hybrids, or other vehicles that the automakers
wish to make appear technologically advanced. Soon? I don't think so. I
could be wrong and I rather hope I am - things are moving faster in the
semiconductor world these days - but I think it's going to be about a decade
before white LEDs are cost-competitive with incandescents and HID lamps for
headlights.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 20 Oct 2005 at 22:04, Robb Zuk wrote:
> Is a 35 Amp bulk charge better than a 12
> Amp bulk charge?
The battery companies recommend C/10 as a minimum. Thus for golf car
batteries you should start at about 25 amps. Rates into the hundreds of
amps are fine as long as you monitor temperature of the battery and don't
try to exceed 80% SOC.
It's a bit off the question, but AGMs have a particular need for initial
high current charging. Posted by Nawaz Qureshi of US Battery back in 2002:
> Blasting AGM's with 2C to 3C rate at the start of the charge, if you
> can do it, just for a few seconds, tends to break up the
> grid-active material barrier layer in the positive plates resulting
> in the prevention of loss of capacity owing to this layer that is
> peculiar to the AGM's if you deep cycle them. It is beneficial.
This seems to be particularly true of Hawkers, so I was told by Solectria
and have also read in a couple of test reports. I have read somewhere
(maybe here) that this is also sometimes true to a lesser degree of flooded
batteries, but I have never been able to verify this, so ...
To cut to the chase, C/10 is what I'd recommend as a minimum.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 22 Oct 2005 at 9:40, Bob Rice wrote:
> The Lincoln?? Well, whynot?
Bob should know - he used to work with Bob Aronson, who built some big,
luxurious EV conversions (though maybe not when Bob was working there).
All it takes is money to build and money to run. Cost per mile for battery
amortization is - shall we say - a bit on the high side when you have 30 or
40 modules, even if they're golf car batteries. But it's possible.
Practical? Depends on how deep your pockets are, depends on what kind of
car you like to drive, etc.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Blasting AGM's with 2C to 3C rate at the start of the charge, if you
can do it, just for a few seconds, tends to break up the
grid-active material barrier layer in the positive plates resulting
in the prevention of loss of capacity owing to this layer that is
peculiar to the AGM's if you deep cycle them. It is beneficial.
Hm. That could explain why I am getting good performance so far out of
my 52ah Hawker pack even though I have limited charge rate to 12 amps max.
Regen.
When I'm in the Prizm and hit the brakes I'm putting 50-80a into the
pack for about 5 seconds or so. On the highway dropping off an exit I
can put current into the pack at a 150 amp rate for the time it takes to
go from 70-20mph.
Maybe that's doing this "breaking up the grid active material" thing.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2005-10-22, David Roden wrote:
>
> White LEDs are another matter. I've done some reading on this, when I was
> thinking about putting LEDs on my Elec-Trak. From what I can tell, subject
> to correction as I admit I don't follow this closely, current white LEDs
> usually use a phosphor pasted over a blue LED.
Pretty much. The article linked describes a more efficient form of
'phosphor', pretty much.
The real holy grail is exciting the quantum dots directly, you'd end
up with a full-spectrum white light with the same kind of efficiency
as a red LED.
Red and amber LEDS make great tail and turn lights. For the moment,
if you want efficient headlights, go HID.
-----sharks
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That wall is of your own making.
The point you still don't get is none of us are racing you. And don't want
to.
We are having fun, and enjoying it.
You are racing to dominate, and humiliate...
Not What I call fun.
Good luck on your 123 E class. You should be alone in it for along time.
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 2:34 AM
Subject: Re: 123 STREET E CLUB
> In a message dated 10/21/05 11:41:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << Subj: Re:123 STREET E CLUB
> Date: 10/21/05 11:41:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rich Rudman)
> Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Reply-to: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>
> That's funny Dennis I never said that.
>
> I just resent you tweaking your nose at us all.
> !!!!!!You have not agreed on the placement of my motor,or me using a full
> cage,or having no sound system(I really do listen to just am talk radio)or
the
> lite weight seats ect.I should be able to have all this and still drive it
on
> the street complying with az.regulations.I thought the madman 100 club was
for
> street used vechs.
> You already have more cash and backing in that truck that anyone else in
> Nedra has this year.
> !!!!!! Lets see Truck$200 Axel $900 Motor $100 + a lot of my own time
> Wheels/tires$900 Hawkers$1700 Brake system $750 Steering $325 Suspension
and legal
> cage$1000 Controller bowered from CE on non race days Charger same as used
on CE
> ect.There is a limited $10000 budget(profit I made on the Ranger EV I sold
> this year)Effective cost $0
> Ever feel you are bragging alone on a street corner????
> !!!!Many of the nedra folk including yourself have said the only reason
CE
> is quick is because its a lite dragster and for years have dared me to
come and
> play on your street corner well I am coming out to play with the S10.
> After awhile even those of us who respect your efforts, Become tired of
the
> same old ," I can whip your ass anyday of the week" Line.
> >>
> !!! Put me up against a wall and yes I will fight.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Eat beans and cabbage, you know, for the environment's sake.
Danny
Jimmy Argon wrote:
One of the most abundant renewable energy sources is
methane, I am waiting for the methane fuel cell. The
energy companies will never develop this device
because they cannot corner the market on the source.
Imagine a vehicle rolling or flying, where normal
passenger "functions" could actually be used to extend
the range of the vehicle!
Jimmy
--- Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 10/22/05 6:04:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< That wall is of your own making.
The point you still don't get is none of us are racing you. And don't want
to.
We are having fun, and enjoying it.
You are racing to dominate, and humiliate...
^^^^^Its funny my
closest EV competitor Jim Ludicker happens to be one of my best friends,I think
he
feels the same.
Not What I call fun.
^^^^ I do not dominate the ice racers I run against each week,but still have
a blast with them.We all have a great time every week,on and off the track.
Good luck on your 123 E class. You should be alone in it for along time.
^^^^Its to bad you do not have more faith in your fellow evers.John Wayland
has a great runing machine and looking at the speedworld calcuator he should
run 125 next year at the rate he is going.Rod wilde is only 12mph off with the
masda at only 264 volts.And Scott Ryan has a great project going. So I expect
to pay off next year!!! Dennis Berube
Madman
>>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No, data from a multispeed gearbox doen't necessarily correlate with a
single speed 'box. But it correlates better than conjecture.
As for the second bit: you need to figure out the efficiency map for
both. I prefer to look at losses, not effcicency, as unitless
effciency can be misleading. But if you stick with effiecency, you
will notice that at 1500 RPM, the effieicncy is lower, but still in
the 80+% range. Peak is at 3000, still at less than half than redline,
and it falls from there, past the knee in the curve where field
weakening starts. So there isn't as much a mismatch as one would
think. In my opinion.
On 10/22/05, Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Except the loss of power is the worst at high input shaft speeds. For
> > most of the speed range, it looks like a constant torque loss, rising
> > slightly with (I assume) viscous oil losses. So you want to maximize
> > the torque input to make the fraction of torque lost the least.
> > Running lightly loaded at high input speed was the worst condition I
> > observed when I tested a multispeed gearbox. This is the condition you
> > would operate in when running at highway speed in a single speed
> > gearbox.
> >
>
> Two problems here.
> First data from multispeed transmissions doesn't neccessarily apply to
> single speed trannies.
> The second point is the big one, the transmission might run most
> efficiently at low RPM high Torque inputs, but this is where the MOTOR
> runs at it's lowest efficiency point.
> You get better overall system efficiency running the motor at higher RPMs.
>
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ken,
I need to clarify myself, I realize they exist but can
I buy a 10kw for my house without doubling my
mortgage? Of the ones that are available now, what
are the sizes and what do they cost?
Hydrogen fuel cells have been around for decades. The
hydrogen boondoggle presently underway is to try and
get the cost down to where maybe - I can afford one,
(if I wanted one ,but I dont). The problem is, the
big boys are just going to charge outrageous hydrogen
prices for two reasons: 1)it is inefficient and
2)because they can rip us off and get away with it.
My point was that if energy companies focused research
funding on methane and produced millions of methane
generator/fuel cells, the price would come down, we
would all be happy 'cause we could feed it biomass
(trash) use it to heat our house or go to work. This
will never happen unless they can convince the masses
to buy trash to feed their methane generator/fuel
cell. (Yikes, on second thought - weapons of mass
destruction went over pretty easy, maybe we will be
buying our waste back!)
Kidding aside, there is presently no incentive for the
energy companies to pursue methane fuel cells. They
dont want us off the grid, without the grid they go
broke, whether the grid is: Gasoline, electricity or
hydrogen there will always be one. I can believe
municipalities are interested because they are solving
two issues: need for energy and waste disposal, but
this will not help to raise the volume of small 5-10kw
units.
If I am wrong and I can buy the 10Kw for lets say,
$5000. Let me know where, and I will buy one.
Jimmy
PS It has to include the methane generator and
refueling apparatus.
--- Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I am waiting for the methane fuel cell. The
> energy companies will
> > never develop this device because they cannot
> corner the market on the
> > source.
>
> I'm not sure what you are basing this statement on.
> There are MANY
> methane fuel cells in development by large
> corporations with many
> prototypes in existance. The city of Portland Oregon
> had a waste methane
> fuel cell installed over 5 years ago.
>
> -Ken Trough
> Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
> http://visforvoltage.com
> AIM/YM - ktrough
> FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
>
>
--- End Message ---
