EV Digest 4846
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Ford Ranger DC/DC pinout?
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: charger woes, obsolete parts
by "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Jabsco Zilla pump
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) wallmart heater cores
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: wallmart heater cores
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: DC-DC Upconverter Reqd
by "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Daddy Says Don't
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Daddy Says Don't
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: clutchless vw
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Re: zilla cooling pumps on a saturday morning.
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Max current w/top terminal UPS batteries?
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Daddy Says Don't
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Daddy Says Don't
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Daddy Says Don't
by "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Daddy Says Don't
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Max current w/top terminal UPS batteries?
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Daddy Says Don't
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: DC-DC Upconverter Reqd
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) The "range issue"
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Daddy Says Don't
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Daddy Says Don't
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: wallmart heater cores
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) "lithium ion SuperPolymer battery"
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: DC-DC Upconverter Reqd
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Daddy Says Don't
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: The "range issue"
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: 1 to 5W ISOLATED DC to DC @ $15
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Max current w/top terminal UPS batteries?
by "Tim Stephenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Does someone have the pinout for the control connector for the control
connector on the Ford Ranger DC/DC module? I have a small schematic of
how to hook it up in a "test" configuration.
To enable the DC/DC pins 4 and 6 must be connected, but the connector is
not numbered. The connector has 3 rows of pins: 3 in the top row, 4 in
the middle and two in the final row.
Thanks
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Jeff Shanab
> I am gonna second the senteient about electrolytics going bad
> by increased ESR, not loss of capacitance... From what I gather,
> designers can design to different levels of stress on these caps
> and different degrees of dependence on the low ESR.
When you read "electrolytic", think "battery". Electrolytics and batteries
are a lot alike, and have a lot of the same issues with regards to life,
environment, failure modes, etc. A common mistake made by inexperienced
designers is to assume that electrolytic capacitor's specifications will
remain stable. Not so! Look at the specs; there is a *huge* tolerance
window (-20% to +100% is common), and rarely will the manufacturer specify
them any longer than 1000 to 2000 hours.
As an electrolytic ages, its capacitance and voltage rating go down, and
its ESR and leakage go up. The capacitor is "bad" when these values go
outside the range that the manufacturer allowed for.
Suppose your circuit needs 100uf minimum, an ESR of 0.1ohm maximum to work,
and applies up to 30vdc max. An inexperienced or cheapskate engineer might
use a 120uf 35vdc capacitor with a 0.05ohm ESR. But if he does, the product
will fail in a year or two (probably just long enough to get out of
warranty). If he expects that product to still work in 5-10 years, he needs
to use at least DOUBLE the minimum capacitance, and a considerable safety
margin in ESR and voltage -- a 220uf 50vdc 0.02ohm ESR capacitor will have
a far better chance of surviving.
The hotter the environment, the shorter the capacitor's life. But, ESR also
goes up drastically as the capacitor gets cold. And, if the capacitor sits
idle for long periods of time, its voltage rating falls and its leakage
current goes up drastically.
> Are the electrolytics of today better than 10 years ago? Is there a way
> around this problem?
I'd say the best electrolytics are better, but the cheapest ones are worse.
You can buy electrolytics for half the cost today that you could 10 years
ago, but you get what you pay for (or rather, you don't get what you didn't
pay for)!
Conversely, modern electrolytics intended for switchmode power supplies are
indeed much better than 10 or 20 years ago.
But the basic fact remain; don't use electrolytics if you want the product
to have a high probability of still working in 10 years. If you *must* use
electrolytics, then design in a huge safety factor; like 5:1 or 10:1 so the
product will still work in 10 years even if the electrolytics are barely
functional.
--
Lee Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I looked all over for the words intermittant duty and didn't find them.
:-( That is something I was worried about.
Because it suppose to be used as a pressure pump I am hoping that the
35psi rating is the intermittant part and the 2.9 amps at 10 psi is
continous.
The guy let me hook it to a battery at the counter. At first we removed
the protective caps and is was quite load. i realisesd that it was the
air making all the noise and put the caps back on loosly. It was very
quiet then. The feet are made of hard rubber so that should help reduce
transmitted vibration and sound. My other pump was really load when
mounted and almost acceptable when not mounted. It's problem was like
the bilge pumps, small unbalanced impellers at high rpm.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I need to get the heater core done soon. I have seen the ceramic heater
cores on the EV web sites and wondered just how do those ones differ
from the ones in the 1500 watt ceramic heater that can be found at
wallmart for $17. Anyone taken one apart and used it? (or 2 of them)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Oct 23, 2005, at 2:33 AM, Jeff Shanab wrote:
I need to get the heater core done soon. I have seen the ceramic heater
cores on the EV web sites and wondered just how do those ones differ
from the ones in the 1500 watt ceramic heater that can be found at
wallmart for $17. Anyone taken one apart and used it? (or 2 of them)
I took a Home Depot one apart and posted pictures on my website here:
<http://learn-something.homedns.org:8100/static/galleries/
CeramicHeater/>
I'm using it in my house, not my EV. Too much work to adapt it to my
old VW, which didn't have a heater core or a blower. Or more
precisely, the heater core was the exhaust system and the blower was
the engine cooling fan. They went away with the engine, plus I'm using
the ductwork for routing my HV cables to the back of the car.
I'm leaning towards purchasing the heater from Canadian EV. They sell
the bare PTC elements, but they also sell a box with the element
mounted in it, a four-speed blower attached, and two outlets suitable
for connecting heater hoses. Just the thing to go up front, connected
to my windshield vents. It doesn't seem to be listed on their web
site. I found out about it in an email exchange with Randy at CanEV.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Have you considered pulse regen. IE short out the armature at low speed in a
pulsed fashion so that you get a big spike when you open the short circuit
which you rectify and feed back to the battery pack. This is how the GM
Griffon did it at low speed for regen.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 9:37 AM
Subject: DC-DC Upconverter Reqd
> My EV has the standard 9" motor with 144V battery. I have been agonising
> over suitable regen schemes. The problem is once Vg<Vb there is no
> further charging. My plan was to inject an adjustable current into a
> decoupled field winding during the braking process. There would be
> currents up to 400A. However it would be better to use an adjustable
> upconverter on the armature. The converter would have short time rating
> of about 20kW. Any thoughts on this scheme?
> David
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/146 - Release Date: 21/10/2005
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My father, a retired electrician, was visiting last week, and I was showing
him around my conversion. Finally I opened the gas tank and told him,
"Here's where the plug for the charger will go."
"Oh, no," he replied, "don't do that. You'll never keep it dry."
"But, Dad, I'll use an outdoor-rated UL plug."
"You'll be sorry. There's going to be water splashing up on that all the
time from the tire. And I've never seen one of those plugs that didn't leak
eventually."
Anyway, I know that lots of EVers have done this. What have you used for a
plug in the gas tank? Is my father just wrong about this?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Bill Dennis wrote:
"You'll be sorry. There's going to be water splashing up on that all
the time from the tire. And I've never seen one of those plugs that
didn't leak eventually."
Anyway, I know that lots of EVers have done this. What have you used
for a plug in the gas tank? Is my father just wrong about this?
What exactly do you mean by "a plug in the gas tank"? Are you talking
about putting the plug for the charger where the gas tank _filler_ used
to be? If so, this is what I did, using a recessed male NEMA L6-30 twist
lock outlet where the old gas tank filler used to be.
It is not waterproof, and the outlet has gotten wet on occasion (though
the water can and does drain out of it). While this could be a potential
problem, I haven't had any troubles with my setup.
Some pictures are here:
http://www.driveev.com/jeepev/photos/pgallery12.php
Specifically:
http://www.driveev.com/jeepev/photos/pg12pics/cordset/twistlocks1.jpg
http://www.driveev.com/jeepev/photos/pg12pics/outlet/chargingreedswitch1.jpg
Hope that helps,
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hopefully this comes through to the list in text. I don't have my computer
(backlight power supply failed - under warrentee) and am using comcast web
access to read and post right now.
The VW Beetle (aircooled!) makes a good clutchless EV. The transmission can
handle shifting with the armature inertia (though I would stick with a 8 inch
motor.)
Scott Hull (used to be on this list) taught me how to make a good shaft coupler
that is strong and doesn't add much wieght or intertia to a clutchless VW
Beetle setup.
You need the reverse gear/input to mainshaft coupler from a later model VW Bus.
It has the same splines as the clutch and is larger than 1.125 O.D. Have a
machine shop make a section of it into an insert with a 1.1250 O.D. and .25
inch keyway slot (not cut through to the ends.) With this, and cutting the
pilot bearing shaft off the Bug transaxle, you can connect the motor to the
gearbox with a Ruland shaft coupler <www.ruland.com>.
That, plus some Redline MTL, will allow decent shifts and no clutch. Then you
can remove the clutch pedal from the pedal cluster, at least you can on the
older cast type pedal assemblies. My EV Buggy runs this setup. Power is from a
Prestolite MTC-4001 motor fed by a Curtis 1221B controller and supplied by 10
Optima batteries. This has worked well for 6 years now.
Paul "neon" G.
P.S. - shifting is rarely needed, usually just from 2nd to 3rd as I hit the
freeway
> A friend wants me to build her a VW bug conversion. Problem is she has one
> leg
> in a brace and can't use the clutch. I know she could go clutchless and put
> into gear before taking off but I was wondering if a set up like my Citicar
> would work on a VW? Using contactors for forward and reverse? Any thoughts
> would be welcomed.
>
> John in Tucson.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have Ryan's cooling kit in hand....
Let the testing begin...
Pump free spin is really quiet.
This pump has what looks to be 3/4 pipe nipples.. WAY big, Ryan has supplied
3/4 to 3/8 inch Ind adapeters. The tubing is reinforced Braided PVC tubing.
I am not sure it's Hot water rated... But it looks just like the stuff I
have on hand. The point is Hot water tubing is going to be needed if you
really are going to
let things get Hot.
Now that is one pretty radiator!!!
The constriction of the Radiator is very solid, Not aluminum. It looks and
feels like solder Brass. Like a real heavy duty heater core made to last.
The blue metal flake paint is Sweet.
Word to the Wise... get your fan mounting screw length right or you will
drive the screw right into the core Tubing.
No I didn't... but I sure could have.
Digging for Fan.... The last I heard is Ryan has a water proof fan...or
Automotive grade fan. This is going to be a improvement over my fans..
My good ones are at the shop... around here I have a lame 12 volter...bad
coil...thumps...a 110 volter and acouple of 240 volters. Oh and a 49 volt at
1/2 a amp
and a 120Vac at . .what ...100 watts and over 500 CFM. Nope none that fit
the 100 CFM and 12 volts... sigh...Need a to go to work.
Testing... Ok you Math head engineers out there, David, Lee , Roger....We
want to collect difinitive data that ALL on this list can understand.
Not just Kw per second and BTUs per months, but Hey.. it works this good,
and here's how to tell so.
Basic test Cool a bucket of hot water...
Take 5 gallons, or 20 liters of water... heat to say 150 Deg F. flip on pump
and fan.... measure time to drop 5, 10 ,20, 30 Deg.
Take air temp.. , record the volume the system moves by pumping some jugs
full of water through the cooling stystem of a Zilla 2K. Use 10 Ft of
hose... minimum.
I will let the thermo enhanced boys derive the actual BTU and Watts per
second numbers from my basic data.
Oh yea I have some data to look at from Ryan..
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 2:52 AM
Subject: Re: zilla cooling pumps on a saturday morning.
> On 10/22/05, Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I wanted to get a quieter and smaller pump for my zilla and it was
> > friday.
>
> > http://www.westmarine.com/
> > They had 20 different models from 2 different manfactures of pumps. And
> > I think this one is gonna be great.
> >
> >
http://www.iboats.com/products/16/38845_jabsco_par_max_1_water_system_pump.html
>
> Just a word of warning - that pump is pretty noisy, and takes a lot of
> power for the volume of water it moves at a low pressure.
>
> Still, you said "quieter" and I don't know what you had before..
>
> Regards
> Evan.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tim Stephenson wrote:
Any guesses on how many amps I might be able to pull through top
terminal 6V sealed lead-acid batteries from an Uninterruptible Power
Supply swapout? These have a bolt that screws down into the connector.
Jerry Dycus wrote:
Studs are fairly bad but with several strings, probably ok.
Use 1 nut under and one over so not to stress the bolt/lead connection.
You can mold different terminals on them with a little work.
----
When we were discussing TS batts (which also have a bolt that screws
down into the connector) a week or three back, I think it was Lee Hart
that said that it was best to make sure that the connector straps are
flush with the top of the stud, since most of the conducting gets done
by the material around the bolt, and not so much the bolt itself.
Maybe I don't have the right picture here, but I thought that the same
concept would apply to Tim's batteries.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you commute with it, and drive it in all sorts of weather,
water will indeed be a problem. This is especially true in the winter when
they put salt on the road.
I installed a plug where the gas cap used to be on my Wabbit. I
replaced the cord and the plug multiple times. I tried rubber tape and RTV,
but no luck. The connections corrode anyway. I keep the plug in the trunk
these days.
I think that there might be some way to do this so it will last.
Maybe some sort of marine duty type inlet would hold up for the long term.
Maybe the Avcon connector will take the rain and salt.
At 11:49 AM 10/23/2005, you wrote:
My father, a retired electrician, was visiting last week, and I was showing
him around my conversion. Finally I opened the gas tank and told him,
"Here's where the plug for the charger will go."
"Oh, no," he replied, "don't do that. You'll never keep it dry."
"But, Dad, I'll use an outdoor-rated UL plug."
"You'll be sorry. There's going to be water splashing up on that all the
time from the tire. And I've never seen one of those plugs that didn't leak
eventually."
Anyway, I know that lots of EVers have done this. What have you used for a
plug in the gas tank? Is my father just wrong about this?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nick, you seriously need to do something about the "Unleaded Fuel Only"
label inside your fuel filler lid :-)
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nick Viera
Sent: Monday, 24 October 2005 4:19 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Daddy Says Don't
...
Specifically:
http://www.driveev.com/jeepev/photos/pg12pics/outlet/chargingreedswitch1
.jpg
Hope that helps,
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2005-10-24, Mark Fowler wrote:
> Nick, you seriously need to do something about the "Unleaded Fuel Only"
> label inside your fuel filler lid :-)
"UNFUELLED: LEAD ONLY".
-----sharks
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, my apologies for the lack of clarity. I meant the door to the gas tank
filler. The charger will be inside of the car. I was thinking of running
wire from it to a three-prong male plug mounted inside the gas tank filler
door.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nick Viera
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 11:19 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Daddy Says Don't
Hi,
Bill Dennis wrote:
> "You'll be sorry. There's going to be water splashing up on that all
> the time from the tire. And I've never seen one of those plugs that
> didn't leak eventually."
>
> Anyway, I know that lots of EVers have done this. What have you used
> for a plug in the gas tank? Is my father just wrong about this?
What exactly do you mean by "a plug in the gas tank"? Are you talking
about putting the plug for the charger where the gas tank _filler_ used
to be? If so, this is what I did, using a recessed male NEMA L6-30 twist
lock outlet where the old gas tank filler used to be.
It is not waterproof, and the outlet has gotten wet on occasion (though
the water can and does drain out of it). While this could be a potential
problem, I haven't had any troubles with my setup.
Some pictures are here:
http://www.driveev.com/jeepev/photos/pgallery12.php
Specifically:
http://www.driveev.com/jeepev/photos/pg12pics/cordset/twistlocks1.jpg
http://www.driveev.com/jeepev/photos/pg12pics/outlet/chargingreedswitch1.jpg
Hope that helps,
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mark and All,
Mark Fowler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Tim Stephenson wrote:
Any guesses on how many amps I might be able to pull through top
terminal 6V sealed lead-acid batteries from an Uninterruptible Power
Supply swapout? These have a bolt that screws down into the connector.
Jerry Dycus wrote:
Studs are fairly bad but with several strings, probably ok.
Use 1 nut under and one over so not to stress the bolt/lead connection.
You can mold different terminals on them with a little work.
----
When we were discussing TS batts (which also have a bolt that screws
down into the connector) a week or three back, I think it was Lee Hart
that said that it was best to make sure that the connector straps are
flush with the top of the stud, since most of the conducting gets done
by the material around the bolt, and not so much the bolt itself.
That's correct.
Maybe I don't have the right picture here, but I thought that the same
concept would apply to Tim's batteries.
The problem with Tim's is the bolt if stressed from the lead gets a
higher resistance from being loose, then heats up, melts. By nutting to the
bolt, the lead-bolt connection doesn't move, loosen as quickly, thus possibly a
longer life. I've melted 3 posts from this problem in the E woody. From now on
it's either flag or auto posts for me.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
Mark
---------------------------------
Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Bill,
Your Dad is correct and he will know the following products.
To make a water proof power plug, the products I used is:
Daniel Woodhead Twist Lock Portable Power Connector which is Watertite and
Super-Safeway rated. A Daniel Woodhead Twist Lock Male recepticle which would
work better, but it was a special order and had to be factory made up.
A Chrouse Hinds cast aluminum deep box with a flange on the face for bolting on
a gasket and cover. Can use a Kilark Brand or deep Bell box which you can put
Bell extension on it to make it deeper.
A Bell weather proof hinge cover either in single or two gang.
(optional) A AC Magnetic Contactor with a NC power pole to prevent EV to drive
off with the plug is connected.
I cut a hole in the back of the box and insert the male connector so the body
of the connector is inside the box and the cable nut and gasket is on the
outside of the box. Size the depth of the box, so the Power connector is
either flush or recessed into the box.
I used a two gang Bell weather proof cover with gasket that has 4 bolt holes
in each corner that matches the 4 bolt holes of the box.
To support this box and cover, I install a 6 inch wide by 1/8 thick steel
bracket that was supported off the frame of the vehicle. A 4 inch hole was cut
in this bracket or the size of the hole of the box.
The flange of the box is than bolted on the back side of this bracket with the
bolts going through the bracket and holding on the Bell hinge Cover. Install
gaskets on both sides of the bracket.
If you mount this Power connection behind a hinge gas cap cover, make a bracket
that will connect to Hinge Gas Cover to the Hinge Bell Cover. When you open
the Gas Cover, than the Bell Cover opens.
My input power goes through the center of my rear bumper which is under my
licease plate which is hinge.
To see how a Daniel Woodhead Portable Power Connecter look like, go to:
http://www.medreps.com/woodhead.htm<http://www.medreps.com/woodhead.htm>
(note: the web site for me sometimes double up, so just delete one address)
You will see a picture of a yellow inline connector that I am using. These
connectors will fit a No. 6 AWG 4 wire cable where the wire just set screw
straight in. Two times I have forgot to unplug this connector and the wires
just pull straight out of the plug with not damage.
I now used a Size 2 AC Magnetic Contactor, where when this plug is plug in,it
turns on this contactor applying power to the battery charger and activating a
optional normally close power pole that plugs into the side of these contactor
that turns off the ignition power. Now this prevents me from driving off with
the plug in.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Dennis<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 11:49 AM
Subject: Daddy Says Don't
My father, a retired electrician, was visiting last week, and I was showing
him around my conversion. Finally I opened the gas tank and told him,
"Here's where the plug for the charger will go."
"Oh, no," he replied, "don't do that. You'll never keep it dry."
"But, Dad, I'll use an outdoor-rated UL plug."
"You'll be sorry. There's going to be water splashing up on that all the
time from the tire. And I've never seen one of those plugs that didn't leak
eventually."
Anyway, I know that lots of EVers have done this. What have you used for a
plug in the gas tank? Is my father just wrong about this?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 6:37 PM +1000 10/23/05, djsharpe wrote:
My EV has the standard 9" motor with 144V battery. I have been agonising
over suitable regen schemes. The problem is once Vg<Vb there is no
further charging. My plan was to inject an adjustable current into a
decoupled field winding during the braking process. There would be
currents up to 400A. However it would be better to use an adjustable
upconverter on the armature. The converter would have short time rating
of about 20kW. Any thoughts on this scheme?
Hi David,
You might like to read an article I wrote on regen long ago:
It's here:
http://cafeelectric.com/curtis/regen/index.html
Also, if you can find archives for this list, the subject has been
discussed in depth in times past.
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Everyone I talk to about EV's always brings this up. Here's my
proposal to this so called problem. Look at all the cars and trucks
being made today. The manufacturers could offer these same vehicles
converted to electric and offer then in various ranges. For these
people who claim they need 1,000 mile range, well they can buy the
model that has a 1,000 mile pack in it. I currently only need the
less expensive 75 mile pack. Later, I could likely get by with an
even smaller pack.
What are the various ranges they could offer in a system they would
like and would work for them? A 100 mile, 500 mile, and 1000 mile
option? Or maybe even more numbers in between?
70 mph at 8 hours driving time is 560 miles. A 10 hour drive for 700
miles covered.
A lithium pack for 700 miles?
Low cost city and commuting packs and higher cost cross country packs?
I think this system would work. See any holes in it or anything
about it being unrealistic?
Converting all the current model cars and trucks is easy enough. What
if the automanufacturers made their own lithium batteries? Or if they
went into high volume production, maybe that would drastically lower
Kokams and Valences prices if they used their batteries instead?
How much range could be loaded into today's cars and trucks if using
these batteries?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis wrote:
> the door to the gas tank filler.
What about a piece of weather stripping around the edge of the door or
opening so when closed it is sealed? How about some sort of rubber
plug to insert into the empty receptacle to keep it sealed from water?
A rubber cork from the hardware store if nothing else.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.medreps.com/woodhead.htm
Roland, can you check out that URL again? www.medreps.com appears to be a
medical recruiting web site.
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 1:32 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Daddy Says Don't
Hello Bill,
Your Dad is correct and he will know the following products.
To make a water proof power plug, the products I used is:
Daniel Woodhead Twist Lock Portable Power Connector which is Watertite and
Super-Safeway rated. A Daniel Woodhead Twist Lock Male recepticle which
would work better, but it was a special order and had to be factory made up.
A Chrouse Hinds cast aluminum deep box with a flange on the face for bolting
on a gasket and cover. Can use a Kilark Brand or deep Bell box which you can
put Bell extension on it to make it deeper.
A Bell weather proof hinge cover either in single or two gang.
(optional) A AC Magnetic Contactor with a NC power pole to prevent EV to
drive off with the plug is connected.
I cut a hole in the back of the box and insert the male connector so the
body of the connector is inside the box and the cable nut and gasket is on
the outside of the box. Size the depth of the box, so the Power connector
is either flush or recessed into the box.
I used a two gang Bell weather proof cover with gasket that has 4 bolt
holes in each corner that matches the 4 bolt holes of the box.
To support this box and cover, I install a 6 inch wide by 1/8 thick steel
bracket that was supported off the frame of the vehicle. A 4 inch hole was
cut in this bracket or the size of the hole of the box.
The flange of the box is than bolted on the back side of this bracket with
the bolts going through the bracket and holding on the Bell hinge Cover.
Install gaskets on both sides of the bracket.
If you mount this Power connection behind a hinge gas cap cover, make a
bracket that will connect to Hinge Gas Cover to the Hinge Bell Cover. When
you open the Gas Cover, than the Bell Cover opens.
My input power goes through the center of my rear bumper which is under my
licease plate which is hinge.
To see how a Daniel Woodhead Portable Power Connecter look like, go to:
http://www.medreps.com/woodhead.htm<http://www.medreps.com/woodhead.htm>
(note: the web site for me sometimes double up, so just delete one address)
You will see a picture of a yellow inline connector that I am using. These
connectors will fit a No. 6 AWG 4 wire cable where the wire just set screw
straight in. Two times I have forgot to unplug this connector and the wires
just pull straight out of the plug with not damage.
I now used a Size 2 AC Magnetic Contactor, where when this plug is plug
in,it turns on this contactor applying power to the battery charger and
activating a optional normally close power pole that plugs into the side of
these contactor that turns off the ignition power. Now this prevents me from
driving off with the plug in.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Dennis<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 11:49 AM
Subject: Daddy Says Don't
My father, a retired electrician, was visiting last week, and I was
showing
him around my conversion. Finally I opened the gas tank and told him,
"Here's where the plug for the charger will go."
"Oh, no," he replied, "don't do that. You'll never keep it dry."
"But, Dad, I'll use an outdoor-rated UL plug."
"You'll be sorry. There's going to be water splashing up on that all the
time from the tire. And I've never seen one of those plugs that didn't
leak
eventually."
Anyway, I know that lots of EVers have done this. What have you used for
a
plug in the gas tank? Is my father just wrong about this?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:33 AM 23/10/05 +0000, Jeff Shanab wrote:
I need to get the heater core done soon. I have seen the ceramic heater
cores on the EV web sites and wondered just how do those ones differ
from the ones in the 1500 watt ceramic heater that can be found at
wallmart for $17. Anyone taken one apart and used it? (or 2 of them)
Hi Jeff and All
I got bare 110V cores from the support side of (I think) Canadian Tire. It
was four or more years ago & I can't rember the details of who/where
exactly. The down side of bare cores is the problem of mounting.
If you buy a domestic ceramic heater, see if you can find one that has a
seperate frame inside that supports the core - this is probably common in
cheaper ones, as they can make the rest of the case from thermoplastic. You
can then take this sub-frame and mount it where the original water-core was
in the vehicle, using less heat-tolerant materials or metal sheet to fill
the shape.
I didn't have the mounting frame, but have a big piece of 20mm thick
'Bakelite' that I made a frame from that I was able to round the outside of
to fit the old hole.
Regards
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And why aren't these batteries on the market? What's the price?
http://electrovaya.com/innovation/zev_tech.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You don't need 20Kw, you need 1000 amps at about 2 volts.
And that varies.
This works, but there are real limits to what you can do. The first is
switching your field in and out of series drive mode and fliping it's
polarity and then driving it back up above the last current point. And of
course the brushes have to be yanked back to Super retard when you do this.
Else the Lead for driving becomes lagging for regen, and simply your brushes
are in the wrong place by about 20 Degrees. This results in massive arcing
on the brushes.... and near instant commutator death.
This brings in dynamic brush movement requirements, unless you can
install compesating windings on your field poles.
Think about how much effort you are going to be spending... and how little
return on your efforts you will get.
Many of us have tried... few got results worth the effort.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 1:37 AM
Subject: DC-DC Upconverter Reqd
> My EV has the standard 9" motor with 144V battery. I have been agonising
> over suitable regen schemes. The problem is once Vg<Vb there is no
> further charging. My plan was to inject an adjustable current into a
> decoupled field winding during the braking process. There would be
> currents up to 400A. However it would be better to use an adjustable
> upconverter on the armature. The converter would have short time rating
> of about 20kW. Any thoughts on this scheme?
> David
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Dennis<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 2:55 PM
Subject: RE: Daddy Says Don't
should be www.mcdreps.com/woodhood.htm<http://www.mcdreps.com/woodhood.htm>
or just put in your search engine : Daniel Woodhead
Roland
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 1:32 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Daddy Says Don't
Hello Bill,
Your Dad is correct and he will know the following products.
To make a water proof power plug, the products I used is:
Daniel Woodhead Twist Lock Portable Power Connector which is Watertite and
Super-Safeway rated. A Daniel Woodhead Twist Lock Male recepticle which
would work better, but it was a special order and had to be factory made up.
A Chrouse Hinds cast aluminum deep box with a flange on the face for bolting
on a gasket and cover. Can use a Kilark Brand or deep Bell box which you can
put Bell extension on it to make it deeper.
A Bell weather proof hinge cover either in single or two gang.
(optional) A AC Magnetic Contactor with a NC power pole to prevent EV to
drive off with the plug is connected.
I cut a hole in the back of the box and insert the male connector so the
body of the connector is inside the box and the cable nut and gasket is on
the outside of the box. Size the depth of the box, so the Power connector
is either flush or recessed into the box.
I used a two gang Bell weather proof cover with gasket that has 4 bolt
holes in each corner that matches the 4 bolt holes of the box.
To support this box and cover, I install a 6 inch wide by 1/8 thick steel
bracket that was supported off the frame of the vehicle. A 4 inch hole was
cut in this bracket or the size of the hole of the box.
The flange of the box is than bolted on the back side of this bracket with
the bolts going through the bracket and holding on the Bell hinge Cover.
Install gaskets on both sides of the bracket.
If you mount this Power connection behind a hinge gas cap cover, make a
bracket that will connect to Hinge Gas Cover to the Hinge Bell Cover. When
you open the Gas Cover, than the Bell Cover opens.
My input power goes through the center of my rear bumper which is under my
licease plate which is hinge.
To see how a Daniel Woodhead Portable Power Connecter look like, go to:
http://www.medreps.com/woodhead.htm<http://www.medreps.com/woodhead.htm<http://www.medreps.com/woodhead.htm<http://www.medreps.com/woodhead.htm>>
(note: the web site for me sometimes double up, so just delete one address)
You will see a picture of a yellow inline connector that I am using. These
connectors will fit a No. 6 AWG 4 wire cable where the wire just set screw
straight in. Two times I have forgot to unplug this connector and the wires
just pull straight out of the plug with not damage.
I now used a Size 2 AC Magnetic Contactor, where when this plug is plug
in,it turns on this contactor applying power to the battery charger and
activating a optional normally close power pole that plugs into the side of
these contactor that turns off the ignition power. Now this prevents me from
driving off with the plug in.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Dennis<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To:
ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>>
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 11:49 AM
Subject: Daddy Says Don't
My father, a retired electrician, was visiting last week, and I was
showing
him around my conversion. Finally I opened the gas tank and told him,
"Here's where the plug for the charger will go."
"Oh, no," he replied, "don't do that. You'll never keep it dry."
"But, Dad, I'll use an outdoor-rated UL plug."
"You'll be sorry. There's going to be water splashing up on that all the
time from the tire. And I've never seen one of those plugs that didn't
leak
eventually."
Anyway, I know that lots of EVers have done this. What have you used for
a
plug in the gas tank? Is my father just wrong about this?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If I had the money, I'd like to take a 2000 something model full size
Chevy truck and put a 700 mile lithium pack in it for a proof of
concept. Hey look, I've got this big, heavy, non aerodynamic truck
and it can do 700 miles per charge.
Or a take a Hummer and convert that for an even more powerful statement.
The key here would be to take any car or truck and put enough lithium
into it so it can run whatever number the customer wants. Give them
performance AND range.
If Valence can compete with lead on cost... things will change.
http://www.valence.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Oct 14, 2005, at 10:46 AM, Adrian DeLeon wrote:
I have used Burr Brown parts (HPR1xx series) similar to these in the
past for isolated voltage measurement circuitry:
[snip]
The manufacturer's link is www.dc-dc.com - click on Products->DC to DC
converters for a whole range of products that are fairly inexpensive
and useful.
One caution: the NMH 12V input parts will take maximum 13.2V input, so
a "pre-regulator" such as an LM7812 could be used to make sure any
charging voltage doesn't fry the part.
Check out the max specs for the HPR107 (3/4th watt, 12v in and out), it
can take up to 15 volts with at least 1ma of load. Since its an
unregulated DC>DC converter its output may be close to 15 volts too.
Make sure what it feeds can take it (an e-meter can, but does it draw
more than 62ma at any point of its operation?). I've been looking at
these for a battery monitor. I'm going to hide the input of mine behind
a diode with a cap across its input, but that is mostly to deal with a
12v system without a battery (hitting the headlights causes a short
sharp voltage sag.)
Paul "neon" G.
P.S. - sorry for being so far behind on the EV list
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>" ...a higher resistance from being loose, then heats up, melts..."
Do these problems typically develop gradually, or quickly?
If these problems show up gradually, should a maintenance item be to
retorque each terminal to mfg recommendations every ___ days? Or once a
week just after arriving home, would it be wise to check the temperature of
each terminal? I would want a handheld IR unit for this (see
http://www.infrared-usa.com/Product.aspx?ProductID=10228&CategoryID=51).
If these problems appear without warning, perhaps I should consider casting
"real" terminals? (ref:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/message/49521 and
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/message/49557)
"Free" is becoming complex...
Thanks, all, for your help.
-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 3:45 PM
Subject: RE: Max current w/top terminal UPS batteries?
> Hi Mark and All,
>
> Mark Fowler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Tim Stephenson wrote:
>
> Any guesses on how many amps I might be able to pull through top
> terminal 6V sealed lead-acid batteries from an Uninterruptible Power
> Supply swapout? These have a bolt that screws down into the connector.
>
> Jerry Dycus wrote:
>
> Studs are fairly bad but with several strings, probably ok.
> Use 1 nut under and one over so not to stress the bolt/lead connection.
> You can mold different terminals on them with a little work.
>
> ----
>
>> When we were discussing TS batts (which also have a bolt that screws
>> down into the connector) a week or three back, I think it was Lee Hart
>> that said that it was best to make sure that the connector straps are
>> flush with the top of the stud, since most of the conducting gets done
>> by the material around the bolt, and not so much the bolt itself.
>
>
> That's correct.
>
>
>> Maybe I don't have the right picture here, but I thought that the same
>> concept would apply to Tim's batteries.
>
>
> The problem with Tim's is the bolt if stressed from the lead gets
a higher resistance from being loose, then heats up, melts. By nutting to
the bolt, the lead-bolt connection doesn't move, loosen as quickly, thus
possibly a longer life. I've melted 3 posts from this problem in the E
woody. From now on it's either flag or auto posts for me.
>
> HTH's,
>
> Jerry Dycus
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/146 - Release Date: 10/21/05
>
>
--- End Message ---
