EV Digest 4879
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Where to buy GC batteries in Compton Ca.
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Global EV map is growing
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Bits and Pieces - air vs water cooling
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Global EV map is growing
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Goodyear Integrity tires, was Re: More about tires
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) NYC/NJ Metro area evers?
by Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Global EV map is growing
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Including aux battery in chargeing string
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Calling all EV'ers near Hagerstown, MD
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Re: Global EV map is growing
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) [Fwd: Commuta Car]
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Low HP brushless motors
by Marc Breitman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) 2004 Evader on eBay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) Re: Where in the World is Clooneys Black Tango !!
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: wiring the garage for EVs...
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Ka Bamm!
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) More electric Thing stuff
by John David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Low HP brushless motors
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Mini NEDRA Power of DC November 5
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Including aux battery in chargeing string
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Ka Bamm!
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Bits and Pieces - air vs water cooling
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Including aux battery in chargeing string
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Ka Bamm!
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Including aux battery in chargeing string
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Global EV map is growing
by jerry halstead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Yet another HighPower, Fast Recharge 10X lifespam Lithium-ion battery
announcement.
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Geo Metro series hybrid/solar project
by Chris Martens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Ka Bamm! It can Live Again!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Including aux battery in chargeing string
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Justin Southam wrote:
> contacts for buying
> Trojan batteries in or around Compton Ca.
http://www.trojan-battery.com/InternationalLocations.aspx?regId=9&sregNm=CA®Nm=United%20States
http://www.usbattery.com/pages/usbdealerca.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Same problem it says that "Winnipeg" is an invalid city.
The software is in Beta and not all cities are yet represented. They are
adding a request form for adding cities not already listed. Please just
contact me directly if you can't find your home town.
One option is to wait, but another is to pick the nearest town that is
larger than yours and state your actual location in your "shoutout"
message. Later, when your town is added, we can delete the approximate
entry and you can make a new one in the exact town.
Either way, thanks to those who do like it. Most people seem to be able
to make it work and we have over 140 entries so far. Some maps have
hundreds more entries than we do, so I don't expect that it is slow due
to the number of users we have so far.
Thanks again to those who are participating and making this a useful
resource.
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM/YM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Roden said
"I didn't think it did. My impression has been that in EV applications, the
DC drive has a cheaper controller and more expensive motor; and the AC drive
has the cheaper motor and more expensive controller."
I have heard that too, even seen that statement in a book or two.
The only sources of AC traction motors that I have seen are metricmind : The
MES motors start at 2500.00
the siemans motors are more and the smaller one most likely has to be compared
to an "8inch DC" not a 9"
There is a heck of a lot of engineering in those motors and controllers and the
prices reflect the limited market.
(Please this is not a DC vs AC flame)
even the surplus motors from the ranger EV, the guy thinks he can get 2000 for
the motors.
Actually I am looking into what might be possible with investors, a minimum
offering of 1000 units and a "different kind of car company" to steal someone
elses catch phrase.
Then ask which motor/controller combo would be cheaper. at the moment, I say
it is a toss-up.
On a side topic and please respond off list.
Does anyone know what it really takes to start a car company?
legislation, crash testing, etc.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Took me two minutes. Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: Global EV map is growing
I had a great deal of trouble signing up for this. Frappr was slow, and
continuously rejected my attempt to create a profile. I will try again
today.
-Mike
On 11/1/05, Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Just a follow-up to a previous announcement about the big EV map. This
is a global map for individuals, companies, and organizations that are
involved with electric transportation products or technologies.
So far we've had over 110 people sign up with the US, the UK, Norway and
Germany WELL represented along with entries from Canada, Australia,
Sweeden, Austria, Switzerland, and Scotland as well.
Show your EV pride and add yourself to the map today! It's free with no
registration required.
http://www.frappr.com/ev
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM/YM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Some people have gotten 50k out of these tires. I suspect they used high
inflation and had good alignments. Why else would some people complain the
way they did. The complaints all sounded like they were driving on
underinflated tires. I bet if you put them to 44psi or more all those
troubles will go away. Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 1:52 PM
Subject: Goodyear Integrity tires, was Re: More about tires
Lawrence and All,
My wife is also in the market to replace her Goodyear Integrity tires on
the 2004 Prius. I just read the feedback on tirerack.com that you
mentioned, and I would agree with the horrible tread-wear comments. I
religiously rotated them at 5K miles when doing an oil change (and checked
tire pressure or course!), and the tires were worn out at 25K, not to
mention that they didn't wear evenly. As far as handling on wet and
snowing
roads, although the Prius traction control and ABS braking kept the buggy
out of the ditches, the wife won't be buying this model again as long as
it
continues to snow here, LRR or not!
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.org/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of Orbs for the teenagers)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:12:41 -0700
You might want to check out the Time for tires thread. My truck weighs
about the same maybe a little less but within a few hundred pounds. I
would
think 1400 pounds would be plenty of capacity per tire. I'm looking at a
14
inch tire. It might be good to find something with the same diameter as
stock. As narrow as possible and with the highest load carrying capacity.
I'm looking at a car tire now it is a 75 in height. 18 pounds weight and
44psi.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.jsp?make=Goodyear&model=Integrity&vehicleSea
rch=true&partnum=365SR7INT
There is a 225 tire here but it only carries 1834 pounds of weight. The
205
might be good also. Lighter in weight but still carries 1600 pounds.
Still
more than you need. These tires have horrible consumer feedback but I
think
it is because of user underinflation (caused by bad manufacturers pressure
requirements) Some users got 60k use out of them. They do have bad feed
back for wet handling also. So it sounds like a lrr tire. I'm going to
try
to find some used. Lawrence Rhodes......
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Time for tires.
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 07:36:24 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
195/75 SR14
These Integrities are perfect in diameter. Carry 1400 pounds max load and
are the lightest of the tires that carry 1300 pounds or more. However
read
this scathing review.
http://www.tirerack.com/survey/SurveyComments.jsp?additionalComments=y&tireMake
=Goodyear&tireModel=Integrity&vehicleSearch=true&partnum=365SR7INT&commentStatus
=P
If someone says they're riding on the rims is that good for EV's?????
Lawrence Rhodes...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ricky Suiter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 9:09 AM
Subject: Re: Time for tires.
I put a set of Goodyear Integrity tires on my Saturn. They come in a lot
of
different sizes. I have no deffinitive proof they are LRR, but the web
site
does state "fuel efficiency." I also know someone who had a production
S-10
where the oem tigerpaw LRR tires were done so they replaced them with
Integrities which resulted in the same range for the truck. If nothing
else
they do feel like they roll fairly nicely, and are rated for 44psi.
Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:After 25 years and
6000
miles the 6.00 LT 45psi orginal equiptment tires on
the Electravan are real close to the wear bars. Didn't get much mileage.
Don't handle well. Poor range. Bias ply. I am looking at the Potenza
RE92 XL's that the First Prius uses. Lose an inch in diameter. Ultra
800's
have 205's that are just about right. Michelin also in a 225 has the
right
diameter. . There are some Goodyear trailer tires that have a wide range
of
inflation and load carrying capacity.
http://www.goodyear.com/rv/pdf/rv_inflation.pdf Maybe they'd make a good
EV
tire.
I'm figuring using the tire that has the closest diameter to the orginal
equiptment and as narrow as possible without sacrificing load carrying
capacity. I figure running max pressure in any case. There are no LT
tires
available in 14 inch anymore. Michelin recommends one but it is a P
225/70
14
Lawrence Rhodes
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is anyone on the list in the Northern NJ or
NYC Metro area? I saw that one of the clubs
mentioned in Build Your Own...
has a regional "office" in Hackensack, NJ.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can't even seee the map!? Or do I have to register just to view?
As previously stated, no registration is required to view the map or to
participate.
The Frappr software uses Google maps and some code to add the pointers
and page formatting. The software is tested in IE6 and Firefox1.0.7 in
windows. Works under Firefox on the Mac. No Safari or IE function on the
Mac so far.
The FAQ says if you see the map but no markers, try clearing your cache,
but also give it a minute to load all the markers. Sometimes it takes
longer than others.
Obviously, ANY software represents a compromise of some kind. I picked
this one because it was easier to implement and use and supports the
majority of the users our there without any downloads, installs, or
registrations required.
Apologies to those who can't get it to work yet. Please check back later
as the code is being improved all the time.
http://www.frappr.com/ev
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM/YM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Jeff,
A very simple method I used, is a onboard 12 volt Smart Charger, that can
charge the 12 volt battery at the same time you charge the other 24 batteries
or charge it seperately.
The charger I used is a Schumacher Model VM-1000A which you can set to charge a
12 V Regular battery, or 12V Deep cycle battery, or 12V AGM-GEL battery and a
6V Regular battery.
The charger current can be set at 2, 15, or 40 amperes. It has indicators for
Battery percent of charge and charge voltage.
In the 12V Deep cycle mode, which I used, the charger will charge to 15 volts
and shut down for a second to read the battery resistance, then it may take it
up to 15.5 volts for a balance charge if needed. It may cycle down to 14.5
volts and back up to 15 volts several times. It may then hold between 14.5 to
15 volts while the current will taper down. It then goes to a maintaining
charge of about 13.6 volts.
I was using a 12V Regular charger on the deep cycle battery which show full
charge voltage, but it only show 70% charge with the Smart Charger.
You can get this chargers at Wal-Mart in different sizes.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Shanab<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 5:05 PM
Subject: Including aux battery in chargeing string
I realize the 12V and dieing behavior would be a negative but would it
work to charge at 300 volts all 25 batteries, the bottom most is the 12
V aux battery. But drive off of the top 24(288V) of batteries. Using a
typical rv battery isolator or a small contactor to isolate during drive
mode.
---- is 10 gauge
=== is 2/0
ie
o---------PFC20 @300V-----------------------------------------------o
| ___ |
--[auxbat]------o o====[bat1]===[bat2]===[bat3]===[bat4]=....=[bat24]=||
| | K1 || ||
| | \\ //
o--12V system--o| =======controller=====motor====================
K1 would be energized during charging only and regulators would allow
for missmatch.
Placeing external load on this first regulator probably stongly reccommended
Am I missing a fundumental leakage path?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All,
Saturday's weather looks to be shaping up for some late season ev
racing at Mason Dixon Dragway.
70's and partly cloudy. About 15-20 degrees above normal. Please join
us if you can. OJ-2 will be there as well as Darin's Piranah bike.
Shawn Lawless
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 5:02 PM -0800 on 11/2/05, Ken Trough wrote:
The Frappr software uses Google maps and some code to add the
pointers and page formatting. The software is tested in IE6 and
Firefox1.0.7 in windows. Works under Firefox on the Mac. No Safari
or IE function on the Mac so far.
It works for me on Camino under OS X.
--
Auf wiedersehen!
______________________________________________________
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"
"..No."
"Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
-Real Genius
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
AM For-wardiing this to the LIST... Please E-mail Juan DIRECTLY.
He is NOT on the list... But he could use our help.
I am but the messinger.... Do not post replys to this inquiry to the
LIST.... Write to him ( Below ) direcatly.. He needs your help
Many Thanks....
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Commuta Car
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 21:27:55 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I would like to know if you know anyone who has the wire schematics on a
1980-1984 commuta car? Thank you!
Juan Galindo
(360) 671-8140
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
right now i have an alltrax controller which seems to pretty versatile
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
eBay has an evader for sale, but a 1000watt/25mph scooter wasn't what they were
pushing in their last press release:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4586338643
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One word, "MONEY"
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: Where in the World is Clooneys Black Tango !!
> Steven wrote:
>
> > "I'm busy trying to set up manufacturing here in Spokane now. "
>
> And why didn't they do that in the first place?
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Right, Jim, you need a 100 amp breaker on both ends - the code requires the
one in the main panel for circuit protection, and the one in the sub-panel
is required for a disconnect if it is out of sight of the main panel or in a
separate building.
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Coate" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 5:51 AM
Subject: Re: wiring the garage for EVs...
> Thanks for the many replies... 4 wires to the sub-panel with separate
> ground is clear. The benefit of a 40-amp circuit for the ICS charger is
> also clear.
>
> But....
>
> Roland Wiench wrote:
> > If the second panel is more than 30 feet from the main panel, (30 foot
> > walking) then the sub or branch panels, need to have a main circuit
> > breaker in it. This distance will vary with the local codes.
>
> Huh? As in the service entrance panel in the house should have a 100 amp
> breaker for the line to the garage, and the garage panel should also
> have a 100 amp breaker in it? I'd always thought the breaker went at the
> beginning of the line, the house end in this case. Rather than
> over-current protection for the wiring, is this more concerned with
> convenience, providing a local way to shut down the entire sub-panel?
>
> [overview: 200 amp service to the house, 1.25" conduit to 100 amp
> sub-panel in the garage 60 feet away, circuits for 2 EV charger, space
> heaters, tools, etc in that sub-panel]
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Coate
> 1970's Elec-Trak's
> 1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
> 1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
> http://www.eeevee.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My warp 9 just exploded the comm. totally obliterated. :-(
This is over rpm damage the potbox stuck a little during the shift but
that was enough. I was warned to put a better spring on it, I was warned
to put a speed sensor on it and I was gonna get to it. That last 7
batteries upping the voltage to 288 from 204 didn't help.
I walked back and pick up a few of the comm bars from the street and
they are absolutly pathetic!
Am I wrong to ask who in their right mind would span an inch with 3/16
cross section copper?
It will be a bit before I can pull it out but I wanted to ask what is
the best thing to do to fix this.
I will put a speed sensor on it this time but is there a better comm
for it?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Listers,
I forgot to mention in my first post. I hope that with the batteries located
mostly near the axles that butressing the frome won't be necessary. Agree or
disagree? Also, how is a suspension on a conversion normally beefed up? Do
you just get stronger springs and if so do the have to be custom built?
John David
www.maxmpg.org <http://www.maxmpg.org>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
eCycle makes brushless motors in this power and price range. They even have
models with an electronic commutator attached to the end of the motor, so
that you can use them about as easily as a standard brushed DC motor. Take
a look at their web site: www.ecycle.com and contact me directly if
interested.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc Breitman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 12:50 PM
Subject: Low HP brushless motors
Ive been trying to locate a brushless motor for an ev project between 5
and
15 hp. Trying to keep it under 2k$. Any ideas?
BTW, the reason im looking is because right now i have an etek brush 8hp
cont 15 max i think?, and im under the influence that a brushless motor
actually uses less electricity for the same amount of torque and speed as
a
brush. This project requires the absolute most efficiency and thus if the
gain over brushed is signifigant enough, i will need to invest in one.
~Marc
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As announced earlier, Shawn Lawless will be bringing his Orange Juice
dragster to Mason Dixon Dragway in Maryland this Saturday around 10:00
am to test out the new LEMCO motors they installed.
Darin Gilbert will also be bringing his Pirahna motorcycle.
Since its just about an hour for me and these guys will be driving
quite a few hours I plan to drop by and cheer the gang on.
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Roland and all ,
I hava the Schumacher model 6000a and just had to open it up , it looked
like a switcher type supply , so I took a chance on it running on dc 150v,
and It worked , The one I have sounds like yours except its 2 , 30 , 60 amps
and I found that it puts out a real 30 amp ( the 60 amp setting is to help
jump start a car ) all the way up to around 14v or so . . I was thinking
that with a little hacking maybe it could be used as a dc to dc converter ,
.
steve clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: Including aux battery in chargeing string
Hello Jeff,
A very simple method I used, is a onboard 12 volt Smart Charger, that can
charge the 12 volt battery at the same time you charge the other 24
batteries or charge it seperately.
The charger I used is a Schumacher Model VM-1000A which you can set to
charge a 12 V Regular battery, or 12V Deep cycle battery, or 12V AGM-GEL
battery and a 6V Regular battery.
The charger current can be set at 2, 15, or 40 amperes. It has indicators
for Battery percent of charge and charge voltage.
In the 12V Deep cycle mode, which I used, the charger will charge to 15
volts and shut down for a second to read the battery resistance, then it
may take it up to 15.5 volts for a balance charge if needed. It may cycle
down to 14.5 volts and back up to 15 volts several times. It may then
hold between 14.5 to 15 volts while the current will taper down. It then
goes to a maintaining charge of about 13.6 volts.
I was using a 12V Regular charger on the deep cycle battery which show
full charge voltage, but it only show 70% charge with the Smart Charger.
You can get this chargers at Wal-Mart in different sizes.
Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <
My warp 9 just exploded the comm. totally obliterated. :-(
I am so sorry to hear this , it kind of sounds like something I might do .
This is over rpm damage the potbox stuck a little during the shift but
that was enough.
any idea of the rpm . One problem with these motors is that they don't make
allot of noise so you don't hear them scream like you would a gas motor .
I was warned to put a better spring on it, I was warned
to put a speed sensor on it and I was gonna get to it. That last 7
batteries upping the voltage to 288 from 204 didn't help.
oh ya , well the 300zx that I did with 156v would do 50mph in second gear
so where you in 1st going into 2nd
I walked back and pick up a few of the comm bars from the street and
they are absolutly pathetic!
Just a though , and I know right now your numb form all this , but I'm
wondering how you did with braking in the motor , about how many miles on it
, seems kind of new for 288v unless you have been driving easy .
also driving around in 3ed or 4th could have over heated the com and soften
it up ,
It will be a bit before I can pull it out but I wanted to ask what is
the best thing to do to fix this.
if its more that just the com I wouldn't , the fix plus the shipping both
ways will cost the same as new motor .
Well lets all learn from this , can you afford to get another motor , or
should we take up a collection :-) .
stevve clunn
I will put a speed sensor on it this time but is there a better comm
for it?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> When I said cooling a dc motor is not practical, I was talking more
> about why bother if i am not able to seal the motor up. A series
> wound brushed motor needs air for the brushes to evacuate the brush
> dust and create the commutator film.
No; lots of brushed DC motors are sealed. All the DC motors in normal
cars are sealed. Many forklifts use sealed motors.
The style is called TENV (Totally Enclosed Non Vented), and is common
for both AC and DC motors. The advantage of course is that such motor
are splashproof and dirt proof. The disadvantage is that cooling is much
worse; a TENV motor has a much lower continuous-duty power rating.
> Correct me if I am wrong but there is no reason, other than economics
> of quantity, why an AC motor should cost more than a DC motor.
All things being equal, an AC motor costs less than a comparable DC
motor. The AC motor has about the same amount of iron and copper, but no
commutator and is easier to build.
EV-grade motors are a different story. DC traction motors are already
produced in fairly large volumes. AC traction motors are a specialty
item, and virtually hand-made so they cost more. The buyers of AC
traction motors are also likely to want higher performance and
efficiency, so they'll use better bearings, higher quality insulation,
and tighter wire packing. These make the cost even higher.
> I think there is room for a lower cost AC controller, I would say
> approximated sine below 1000rpm and 6 step above that would reduce
> processor demandcost and increase effiency.
I agree. The microcomputer isn't a big part of the cost, so designers
tend toward huge overkill just because they can.
> what about a 2 phase motor?
You can do that, but there aren't any real savings. A 2-phase inverter
with two H-bridges actually uses 8 power semiconductors; 2 more than a
3-phase H-bridge. A 2-phase half-bridge uses 4 power semiconductors, but
you don't get quite as much horsepower per pound out of the motor.
There is actually some merit to going with more than 3 phases. If your
situation is such that you need to parallel power semiconductors to get
the needed voltage/current ratings, then it works out better to add
phases. There are successful 6-phase, 12-phase, and even some 24-phase
AC drives (the latter occurring when you need thousands of HP).
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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If you have a heavy-duty DC/DC, can that be used to charge the aux
battery as well as providing 12V for accessories? Kinda like how in an
ICE, the battery starts the car, then the alternator charges the battery
while providing power for the rest of the vehicle?
For that matter, can the DC/DC be always on, provided the output is
unloaded or very lightly loaded?
Jeff Shanab wrote:
I realize the 12V and dieing behavior would be a negative but would it
work to charge at 300 volts all 25 batteries, the bottom most is the 12
V aux battery. But drive off of the top 24(288V) of batteries. Using a
typical rv battery isolator or a small contactor to isolate during drive
mode.
---- is 10 gauge
=== is 2/0
ie
o---------PFC20 @300V-----------------------------------------------o
| ___ |
--[auxbat]------o o====[bat1]===[bat2]===[bat3]===[bat4]=....=[bat24]=||
| | K1 || ||
| | \\ //
o--12V system--o| =======controller=====motor====================
K1 would be energized during charging only and regulators would allow
for missmatch.
Placeing external load on this first regulator probably stongly reccommended
Am I missing a fundumental leakage path?
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I've been there and done that. I exploded a 9-inch ADC commutator in
1996 in my Ranger conversion. I was towing the truck and had
absent-mindedly left the transmission in 1st gear. My estimate of RPM
was about 11000 rpm when it blew apart.
An exploded commutator is a sight to behold. I hope you take some
pictures and share them with us.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 8:05 PM
Subject: Ka Bamm!
My warp 9 just exploded the comm. totally obliterated. :-(
This is over rpm damage the potbox stuck a little during the shift but
that was enough. I was warned to put a better spring on it, I was warned
to put a speed sensor on it and I was gonna get to it. That last 7
batteries upping the voltage to 288 from 204 didn't help.
I walked back and pick up a few of the comm bars from the street and
they are absolutly pathetic!
Am I wrong to ask who in their right mind would span an inch with 3/16
cross section copper?
It will be a bit before I can pull it out but I wanted to ask what is
the best thing to do to fix this.
I will put a speed sensor on it this time but is there a better comm
for it?
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On Nov 2, 2005, at 8:13 PM, Eric Poulsen wrote:
If you have a heavy-duty DC/DC, can that be used to charge the aux
battery as well as providing 12V for accessories? Kinda like how in
an ICE, the battery starts the car, then the alternator charges the
battery while providing power for the rest of the vehicle?
For that matter, can the DC/DC be always on, provided the output is
unloaded or very lightly loaded?
This is normally how a DC to DC converter is used. Many EVs have the DC
to DC on all the time. My EV Buggy does not even have a 12v accessory
battery.
Jeff Shanab wrote:
I realize the 12V and dieing behavior would be a negative but would it
work to charge at 300 volts all 25 batteries, the bottom most is the
12
V aux battery. But drive off of the top 24(288V) of batteries. Using
a
typical rv battery isolator or a small contactor to isolate during
drive
mode.
Bad idea. You have one side of a high voltage connection connected to
the frame while charging. You might be able to "get away" with this if
you are using an isolated charger, but I hope the isolation never
fails. If you are using a non-isolated charger the frame is HOT to
ground. The whole point of isolating the 2 electrical systems is to
avoid this - especially when charging.
Paul "neon" G.
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Works fine on OS X 10.4.3/Safari 2.02. Google added Safari support
shortly after releasing google maps.
Also works fine for me in Firefox 1.5 (Mac) and Firefox 1.07 & IE 6
(Win XP).
Forget IE on Mac, MS abandoned that years ago...
Nice job Ken!
-Jerry
http://www.evconvert.com/
On Nov 2, 2005, at 8:02 PM, Ken Trough wrote:
I can't even seee the map!? Or do I have to register just to view?
As previously stated, no registration is required to view the map
or to participate.
The Frappr software uses Google maps and some code to add the
pointers and page formatting. The software is tested in IE6 and
Firefox1.0.7 in windows. Works under Firefox on the Mac. No Safari
or IE function on the Mac so far.
The FAQ says if you see the map but no markers, try clearing your
cache, but also give it a minute to load all the markers. Sometimes
it takes longer than others.
Obviously, ANY software represents a compromise of some kind. I
picked this one because it was easier to implement and use and
supports the majority of the users our there without any downloads,
installs, or registrations required.
Apologies to those who can't get it to work yet. Please check back
later as the code is being improved all the time.
http://www.frappr.com/ev
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM/YM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
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A123Systems Launches New Higher-Power, Faster Recharging Li-Ion Battery
Systems
http://www.a123systems.com/html/news/articles/051102_news.html
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/11/a123systems_lau.html#more
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/gridable-hybrids/message/2099
I know, I know, when can we BUY one.
L8r
Ryan
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Hello all, my name is Chris, from Carrboro, NC. I was kindly refereed to your
list after asking around about my project. Currently I'm trying to weld a
custom
mount to mate a standard manual transmission to a surplus electric motor. If
someone with experience in the area that might be willing to share some info,
that would be great.
My idea was to make two pieces, one attached to the motor(bracket) and the other
to the transmission(1/4 inch steel plate). They would be bolted together
through
oversize holes, so as long as I get it close, there will be some tweaking room.
Maybe not the best idea, but it's what I've come up with so far.
I'm trying to put together a hybrid car that runs on gasoline, but has solar
panels as well. It's different then current production hybrids in two ways.
First, it has much less power (about 10-15 HP for a Geo Metro). Secondly, only
the electric motor powers the wheels, the gas motor powers a generator. This
has
the advantage of running the gas motor at full throttle when it is running,
greatly increasing it's efficiency.
The motor is a lawnmower 5HP B&S, which I plan to convert to lean burn fuel
injection. It's only got a third of the electric drive motors power, so it'll
be
tricklecharging the batteries if it's running. I've got a set of Optima lead
acid batteries, which have almost no internal resistance which makes the whole
system very efficient. I'm hoping to break 100mpg on longer trips. Depending
on
the sun, I might not need to run the gas motor at all on short trips. I've read
about a similar system that achieved 80mpg, and that was with conventional (very
inefficient) lead acid batteries, and a carbureted motor. The real mpg boost
will come when I convert the B&S to fuel injection and start to tweak the
mixture. That's a project me and a colleague have been tossing around for
awhile.
I got everything surplus, so I'm kind of stuck with what I got. I just
guesstimated everything out, I don't know if this design will be highway
drivable, but at least I can get to the market and back. I've also got a cheap
Acetylene torch and full tanks, but am still learning to use it.
Chris
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 11:54 PM
Subject: Re: Ka Bamm!
> I've been there and done that. I exploded a 9-inch ADC commutator in
> 1996 in my Ranger conversion. I was towing the truck and had
> absent-mindedly left the transmission in 1st gear. My estimate of RPM
> was about 11000 rpm when it blew apart.
> An exploded commutator is a sight to behold. I hope you take some
> pictures and share them with us.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 8:05 PM
> Subject: Ka Bamm!
>
>
> > My warp 9 just exploded the comm. totally obliterated. :-(
> >
OUCH! Don't know WHERE in the good 'ole USA ya are, but figure a shipment
to the Good Folks at Warfield Electric in Frankfort Illinois. Just south of
Chicago. If yur near Chicago, drive it out there yourself, Say "Hi" To Jerry
Warfield, tell him your sad story. Check out the plant, see thousands of DC
motors being born, in stock. Marvel at what it takes to build one. If the
coils and field stuff survived the motor is rebuildable for , say 600-700
bux, that's what we paid for a destroyed ADV that I schlepped out there on
my way to PDX for the races. That one was sad, comm bars and brushes hanging
out the inspection holes!! He was gunna junk it but I said that it was worth
a rebuild. HE too went down hill in too low a gear. Too valuable to use as a
boat anchor!
Almost any reasonable DC motor can find new life, at Warfield's. That's
what they do.
Disclaimer here; I AM a dealer for these guys, but after all who ya gunna
call? with a dead motor. They rebuilt my ADC 9" about 5 years ago when I had
a armature coil ground out, ADC didn't want to hear about it. Warfield
rebuilt the armature in less than a week, for about 300 bux. Most of the
time and a good amount of the expense was the damn shipping as it's too
heavey to UPS so it's truck freight$$$. If ya break it diown to Armature,
an' Field it CAN go UPS though. But it's more fun to drop it off at the
factory.
My two comm bars worth
Seeya
Bob
> >
> > This is over rpm damage the potbox stuck a little during the shift but
> > that was enough. I was warned to put a better spring on it, I was warned
AFTER the Titanic sank , they did make it a rule at sea; Lifeboats for
all<g>!
> > to put a speed sensor on it and I was gonna get to it. That last 7
> > batteries upping the voltage to 288 from 204 didn't help.
> > Wow! That will speed up a motor. Waylan-esk sort of voltages! No
Flywheel? Right. That is one advantage of that heavy , ugly, flywheel. At
120 volts I speedshift the Rabbit without letting up on the juice, but I
don't recommend that to others, if ya miss a shift, this brings up a
hypothetical question. WHICH will blow first, flywheel or motor?? I would
bet that the motor would give just short of schrapnelling the flywheel.
Havent heard of any blown flywheels here..yet? Especially guyz that monkey
with cutting or modding the 'wheel, to make it lighter?
> > I walked back and pick up a few of the comm bars from the street and
> > they are absolutly pathetic!
> >
> > Am I wrong to ask who in their right mind would span an inch with 3/16
> > cross section copper?
> >
> > It will be a bit before I can pull it out but I wanted to ask what is
> > the best thing to do to fix this.
> >
> > I will put a speed sensor on it this time but is there a better comm
> > for it?
> >
> >
>
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At 12:21 AM 11/3/2005, Paul G. wrote:
Jeff Shanab wrote:
I realize the 12V and dieing behavior would be a negative but would it
work to charge at 300 volts all 25 batteries, the bottom most is the 12
V aux battery. But drive off of the top 24(288V) of batteries. Using a
typical rv battery isolator or a small contactor to isolate during drive
mode.
Bad idea. You have one side of a high voltage connection connected
to the frame while charging. You might be able to "get away" with
this if you are using an isolated charger, but I hope the isolation
never fails. If you are using a non-isolated charger the frame is
HOT to ground. The whole point of isolating the 2 electrical systems
is to avoid this - especially when charging.
No one has pointed out the BIG problem with that setup.
The Aux battery won't be at the same level of discharge as the
traction pack batteries. You will either undercharge it, or cook it
by overcharging it.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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