EV Digest 5409
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: What people want/level of expertise to get an EV started?
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Lee regulators, 0.2
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: What people want/level of expertise to get an EV started?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: which comes first
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: EV Chargers Removed on Earth Day
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: What people want/level of expertise to get an EV started?
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Nissan AC conversion, Ebay motor questions
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Does John really need reverse? was:White Zombie
Update...360 Volts...More HP!
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: V28 battery (was Re: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet someone
is happy.)
by "David Ankers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet someone is happy.Comments.
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: V28 battery (was Re: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet someone
is happy.)
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Tour de Sol Press Release (long)
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: V28 battery (was Re: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet someone
is happy.)
by "David Ankers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Torque per amp
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Torque per amp
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Can someone correct a misunderstanding?
by "David Ankers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Does John really need reverse? was:White Zombie Update...360
Volts...More HP!
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Does John really need reverse? was:White Zombie Update...360
Volts...More HP
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Nissan AC conversion, Ebay motor questions
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: V28 battery (was Re: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet someone
is happy.)
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: V28 battery (was Re: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet someone
is happy.)
by "David Ankers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
> I can't imagine someone NOT asking the cost of something semi-custom
> like this. Especially if he's interested in buying one.
>
> John
>
Anyone who really wanted one wouldn't bother to ask how much, just
"Where can I buy one?"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Makes sense. 50 of anything is a lot. But you can figure out the
physical size that the regulator has to be to fit in the space
available, and make a few as a test case. Charge the pack, and put the
regulators you can get built on the highest-voltage batteries.
I should be able to build 50 of them, just not with the detectors. I
just need to keep in mind this is a rev 1.0 solution.
The tap is chosen to provide about 0.5 amps at 14.5v per 12v battery.
So in theory you could leave the charger on forever. The regs will
bypass all the current at that point, and when all the regs are lit it
will just sit at 14.5 with a net current of .5a.
I suppose I can program the MC to take a wild guess and charge to 14
volts*25 (bulk charge), then ramp down to a 1 amp net rate (2 strings)
for a time period of 4 hours or something.
Did you get them from two different sources? Mine are all from Central
Semi, body is 0.2" dia. by 0.365" long. They fit in lugs for #6 wire.
Both came from Mouser. They had the Central Semi 6.8 volt ones (the fat
ones) but they did not have 6.2 volt ones. So I got 1N5341B's which are
NTE replacements. They are a bit longer and skinnier; they fit snugly in
a 10 gauge lug.
I wouldn't run them any hotter than 80 deg.C.
The lead is hot enough to steam water off my finger, so that's too hot.
I'll get some #6 lugs from mouser; do you have a particular part number?
The lug is the diode's heatsink. That "5w" rating for the diode assume a
really good heatsink; not just surrounded by stagnant air or heatshrink
tubing. Try some with and without the conductive epoxy; you'll find it
cuts diode chip temperature rise at least 2:1.
Ok, I'll get the epoxy. I gave heat sink compound a shot this evening,
but that's a screaming mess.
If I order this stuff two day shipping it should get here by Friday.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Anyone who really wanted one wouldn't bother to ask how much, just
> "Where can I buy one?"
Only ones who's money is of no object or limit.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The EV1 batteries were EC-EV1260's and as far as I can tell aren't made any
more. Or are they the white delphi batteries that wern't all that great?
There's one major little detail here you are missing, the Trojan T-145
batteries are 6 volt, not 12 volt batteries. 13 of them would only give you 78
volts, which would not be very suited for highway use. I have 12 twelve volt
batteries in my Saturn conversion and had a somewhat difficult time finding
room without giving up the trunk or back seat.
I have a Zilla in mine, and it's very nice, especially from the aspect that
everything is taken care of for you. You just hook up the appropriate wires to
the hairball and everything is built in like: Precharging, rev limiting
(important!), key inputs, plugged in disable input etc. Yeah the little green
box will probably cost more than the car, but they're well worth it.
Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I am at the stage of choosing components for my Saturn,
and already I have questions.
I have the Kostov motor - I think it's 13".
I see others using Kostovs have a variety of controllers:
4 Auburn, 4 DCP, one Zilla.
The car currently has 22 bad "EV1" batteries (132 VDC)
(I could not find specs for them anywhere,
and I need a battery for my scale :-)
External dimensions 4.5" x 14.5" x 7 (456" cu)
Sample battery:
T-145 LPT 530 min 260Ah 10-3/8 x 7-1/8 x 11-5/8 72 lb (881" cu)
So, 13 of these (156VDC) would be only 10% more than what I have now.
Of course, I would like to buy the new batteries last, after
I buy a controller. I don't plan to race, but do hope to either
a) do up to 65 miles on a charge (expert EV driving ;-) OR
b) do my 40-mile commute at about 67Mph (still means lightening up :-)
(b would only work if I get an outlet at work, 67% chance now :-)
With the above, I am thinking I don't need a Zilla Controller.
However, I see that the other boxes cost about the same.
(Does anyone have something for sale that will do 156V ? :-)
BTW, I haven't found much info about Auburn, but with 4 votes,
it's worth looking at.
With all the discussion of used battery packs, I think I'll
try to use the pack I have until D-day...but to use it, I need
a charger. My question for the list is, can I just buy a charger
(possibly PFC-30), and choose batteries later?
(I am looking for a plug-n-forget)
How does that fit with possibly wanting/needing Battery Management?
(Hoping to be able to reuse 24-odd battery cables :-)
I am still taking an inventory, car appears to have one breaker
and one contactor, so I'll need one of each.
Thanks
Seth
Later,
Ricky
02 Insight
92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
Glendale, AZ USA
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No, but I would have been more than willing to pay for the power I used.
Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Did the power company profit each time
you used these chargers?
---------------------------------
Blab-away for as little as 1ยข/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo!
Messenger with Voice.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Roland, may I ask, why these retired people would care how much [less]
> your EV cost over 30 years if they each keep their trucks only for
> 2 years? How many people out there do you think want to drive
> 30 years old car EVEN if it runs perfectly as on day one and never
> breaks?
>
> Victor
If you're a car lover, you don't really care how much you end up
spending on your wheels. I've only been an auto owner for 31 years,
only put in a few hundred thousand miles on our highways, but I don't
think I've spent more than $50K on everything (cars, gas,
maintanence). Of course, I don't buy a new car every few years - I
"drive it 'til it dies" - bullet-proof Toyotas or
almost-ready-for-salvaging beaters.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
These have been on ebay and the EVDL a number of times over the past year.
Two basic problems:
- no controller available that works for these motors
- very difficult shaft to adapt to (twisted spline)
I am sure Victor gets a lot of questions if these motors will work!
If you can get one for real cheap (i.e. $100) it might be an interesting to
play with, but other than that caveat emptor!
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of george.underwood
Sent: April 25, 2006 8:05 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Nissan AC conversion, Ebay motor questions
Im a newbie just starting to research EVs (I am an electronics engineer but
don't have experience in power/motor control). I currently favor an AC
system after doing a little reading. Considering a conversion for an 88
Nissan Pulsar NX I have sitting around. This is a front wheel drive 5 speed
manual tranny vehicle. Work commute is 30mi round trip but for a safety pad,
lunch or side errands, I would like a 50 mile range. Speed varies but only
occasional interstate driving to the next exit or two. NOT interested in
drag race except to safely merge in traffic in the slow lane. Fast charging
NOT required (overnight OK). Maybe save a little money on the charger
initially.
Future add-on of an Air Conditioner compressor drive and condenser fan
control is probable. Its hot here in GA.
Anybody have any comments on the "Ford Siemens EV Electric Vehicle New Crate
Motor" for sale on ebay? Seller (Electromavin) says this is new crate motor.
Specific questions if anybody knows:
1) Are these possibly factory seconds, that did not pass QA or
performance tests or are they genuine first rate crate motors?
2) I assume this motor is set up for an immediate gear reduction box
(not included)-correct?
3) What would I need to adapt to that gear on the output shaft?
4) Or is the gear removable (how?) and replaceable with what? (I would
like to adapt to the Pulsar tranny, either with or without clutch).
5) I assume I could use the existing car radiator and small pump for
cooling liquid. Correct?
6)Are there any particular control issues with this motor?
7) Any other comments on this motor? .....As possible plant for the
Pulsar?
8) What other specs/info would I need?
9) Is this a reasonable price? ($2000)
Here are advertised specs:
* Motor Type: 3 Phase AC
* Horsepower: 90 hp
* Power: 67 kW / 33 continuous
* Torque: 149 ft.lbf (202 N.m)
* RPM: 3500-9700
* Motor can operate on 215 -- 380 Volts AC
* Motor stand alone weight: 178 lbs. US
* Energy Capacity: PbA - 23 kWh/NiMH - 26 kWh
* Battery Type: PbA/NiMH
* Battery Modules: PbA 39/NiMH - 25
The motors are marked:
* Ford Traction Motor
* Type 1 PV5 133
* F8Y8 148280 AC
* 4W S20 WII
* Th CI, F
* Rated Battery Voltage 250V
* Mfg. By Siemens A.G. (written in German)
* Motor stand alone weight: 178 lbs. US
Thanks
George Underwood
Byron GA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
NEDRA never required reverse in any of the classes. However,
you are correct that the NHRA does require that cars have reverse.
Thus, if John wants to continue to bracket race in the NHRA, he will
be forced to install some sort of reverse at some point. If he were
to win an NHRA bracket racing event, no doubt that one of the other
competitors would protest and he would be disqualified. (It just
takes one competitor to protest.)
I sought to keep the NEDRA rules as simple as possible. The
goal of NEDRA is to promote innovation. Too many rules does just the
opposite. It is also hard for folks to comply and leads to hard
feelings when you must disqualify a person at race day.
Indeed, this reverse rule was inserted "in secret." Ken,
John, and Rod decided to exclude me from the rules committee email
discussion for quite awhile. John mentioned that I was "not active"
when this rule was discussed. An interesting way to put it, I have to admit.
>>>> A few specifics about the proposed NEDRA rules that I don't
much care for. <<<
The ban on "non-dealer" fender flares seems silly to me.
Just set a maximum tire width like the NHRA does for stock classes.
Simple to inspect. Simple to understand. Simple to comply. They
fought this tooth and nail. How is the inspector supposed to be able
to tell if a fender flare is stock, aftermarket, or dealer-installed?
The very odd limitations on transmissions seems illogical to
me. You can't use a non-stock transmission, but it is OK to remove
the transmission completely. I saw no point in regulating the type of
transmission, because it stifles innovation, so I suggested chopping
this restriction completely. Also, to require a stock transmission,
but allow the removal of the transmission, seems completely illogical to me.
The requirement for carpet and headliner just seemed petty
to me. I certainly wouldn't want to disqualify a car because it was
missing some carpet in the back seat or didn't have a headliner. If
my car were bounced out of the SC class for this, I think I would not
be very happy.
Keep in mind that these are the parts of the rules that
remained. You won't believe the parts of the rules that I managed to
talk them out of.
Bill Dube'
At 03:10 PM 4/25/2006, you wrote:
damon henry wrote:
> I thought the reverse thing was one of the new rules laid out by the ultra
> secret Nedra Conspirators that lead to the implosion of the whole
> organization. As far as I can tell John no longer needs reverse.
It's my understanding if John races at an NHRA track, he needs reverse
as per the rulebook...
http://www.imgtank.com/hpics/643904reverse814.png
If you do a long burnout and go past the start line, how are you going
to move the vehicle back otherwise? Seen any big cars lay rubber for
~300'+?
http://www.nhrasportcompact.com/2006/rules/index.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Us RC heli guys don't use any of the BMS stuff inside the pack as it adds
weight, we add balancing taps and balance withy an external balancer.
However, these packs stay in balance extremely well.
I'm sure there are hundreds of the circuits lying around in RC land, I can
get my hands on a few but I'm in Australia. Maybe the some of the RC guys
stateside could be convinced to send some of the "useless bits" in your
direction for you to dissect? Let me know if that interest you off list and
I'll see what I can do.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rich Rudman
Sent: Wednesday, 26 April 2006 11:34 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: V28 battery (was Re: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet
someone is happy.)
On Monster Garage... I watched John Zick play with the data in side every
pack.
But.. he would not let me see the actual data, or explain it. So.. he kept
his promise of not telling me much about the BMS in the V28 packs.
I understand his point of view.. and his employers.. but man I wanted to
know!!
Cool stuff. but... it does need to be kept where it can do the owners the
most good.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 4:12 PM
Subject: V28 battery (was Re: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet someone
is happy.)
> On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 16:55:02 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >1. The V28 is an AWESOME battery. While the show said we had 3 runs, I
> >believe it was actually 5 full 1/4 mile runs + at least 4 hard launch
> >short runs at the shop, (ON ONE CHARGE) + 50-75% charge remaining in
> >the pack after all was said and done.
>
> I was down at my friendly local electric motor shop doing some work
> today when we got a fax from Milwaukee. We're a factory-authorized
> service center for Milwaukee so we get all the news. The fax
> announced a 5 year/ 2000 cycle warranty on the battery. The processor
> inside the battery tracks the time from initial charge and the cycle
> count.
>
> The FAX said that the cycle count and elapsed time could be displayed
> but it wasn't clear if this is on the consumer charger or on a
> diagnostic station that we'll presumably have to buy.
>
> In any event, considering the operating conditions in the hands of
> construction workers, having the confidence to offer a 5 year warranty
> is impressive indeed.
>
> John
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
> Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet someone is happy.
> In a message dated 4/25/06 12:27:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << Subj: Re: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet someone is happy.
> Date: 4/25/06 12:27:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tom Hudson)
> Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Reply-to: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>
> Am I surprised? Not really. Just like the earlier show that featured
> the "Goin' Postal" van conversion, this show was far from a recruiting
> tool for ordinary people looking to get into EVs. You don't show people
> with sparks flying off uninsulated wrenches and vehicles with motors
> shearing off keys and sputtering down the track to someone who just
> wants reliable, safe transportation.
>
> -Tom >>
> If I did not know better it seams like these shows could have oil co,s
behind
> them to discorage the potential use of evs.Both gp and mg would scare the
> average auto mechanic watching the shows from building an EV. Dennis
Berube
>
Hi Dennis an' All;
You have a good point, although real auto buff guyz I think , would see
it as a challange. The Monster Garage and other shows of that ilk, dealing
with gas cars, all have that hokey, fluff, presentation, too. But that
doesn't seem to scare people away?After all you started with ICE mobiles as
did Plasma Boy Rod Wilde and I think most EVerybody else on here. Me
excepted, I repaired gas cars fior years before getting into EV's. Been a
lifetime member of the Poverty Motor Club, buy a wreck, and a Parts car, out
of neccesity to get to work, before the EV stuff I could cobble into a "
French Fries and Loose Change under the seat", Go-fur car.Buying a Prius
with ONLY 13k on the clock was a NEW car for me!Funny I don't miss working
on Gas Cars, I do as little as nessary, to keep my remaining wrecks going.
Now If the , say, History Channel, under the banner" Modern Miricles" do
Wayland and Berube's racing stories, the EVolution of the racing genre,
following that with the 100 mile club. We guyz have enough vids to almost do
it ourselves? Somebody handy with vidio productions could string something
together. I would BUY some DVD's and GIVE them out to interested
Newbbees!Hell with TV! Show of hands. WE could put together a historical EV
Racing production. Run it on the local Public Access channel?
OK down from my battery(soap) box for now.
Seeya at Joliet
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What did he look at the data with? Does the charger display any info?
I think maybe I'll need to work down there again tomorrow. If I do,
I'll call Milwaukee and ask them what is involved in "metering" the
new battery and find out if we need to buy some new hardware.
If there is a diagnostic bench for the battery and we get one, you can
bet that I'll have it apart and be probing the interface with a
protocol analyzer :-) I just hate the "I've got a secret" game.
Did you get to see a battery apart? I wonder what the BMS board looks
like and what kind of interface it has. Serial, 1-Wire or ????
John
On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:34:04 -0700, "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>On Monster Garage... I watched John Zick play with the data in side every
>pack.
>But.. he would not let me see the actual data, or explain it. So.. he kept
>his promise of not telling me much about the BMS in the V28 packs.
>I understand his point of view.. and his employers.. but man I wanted to
>know!!
>
>Cool stuff. but... it does need to be kept where it can do the owners the
>most good.
>
>Rich Rudman
>Manzanita Micro
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 4:12 PM
>Subject: V28 battery (was Re: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet someone
>is happy.)
>
>
>> On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 16:55:02 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> >1. The V28 is an AWESOME battery. While the show said we had 3 runs, I
>> >believe it was actually 5 full 1/4 mile runs + at least 4 hard launch
>> >short runs at the shop, (ON ONE CHARGE) + 50-75% charge remaining in
>> >the pack after all was said and done.
>>
>> I was down at my friendly local electric motor shop doing some work
>> today when we got a fax from Milwaukee. We're a factory-authorized
>> service center for Milwaukee so we get all the news. The fax
>> announced a 5 year/ 2000 cycle warranty on the battery. The processor
>> inside the battery tracks the time from initial charge and the cycle
>> count.
>>
>> The FAX said that the cycle count and elapsed time could be displayed
>> but it wasn't clear if this is on the consumer charger or on a
>> diagnostic station that we'll presumably have to buy.
>>
>> In any event, considering the operating conditions in the hands of
>> construction workers, having the confidence to offer a 5 year warranty
>> is impressive indeed.
>>
>> John
>> ---
>> John De Armond
>> See my website for my current email address
>> http://www.johngsbbq.com
>> Cleveland, Occupied TN
>> Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
>>
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
can't see anything there either .. about the indian hybrid
any other url's ?
----- Original Message -----
From: "M Bianchi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <EV@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: Tour de Sol Press Release (long)
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > i cannot find any links to see the 'indian' hybrid
> >
> > anyone knows ?
> >
> > is the DCE team/guys watching this list ?
> > the www.dce.org link speaks nothing of this nice project
> >
> >
> > ..peekay
>
> That should be www.dce.edu not *.org
>
> --
> Mike Bianchi
> Foveal Systems
>
> 973 822-2085 call to arrange Fax
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.AutoAuditorium.com
> http://www.FovealMounts.com
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.6/323 - Release Date: 24/04/2006
>
>
___________________________________________________________
24 FIFA World Cup tickets to be won with Yahoo! Mail http://uk.mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The guts of the v28s:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=508443
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Neon John
Sent: Wednesday, 26 April 2006 2:00 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: V28 battery (was Re: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet
someone is happy.)
What did he look at the data with? Does the charger display any info?
I think maybe I'll need to work down there again tomorrow. If I do,
I'll call Milwaukee and ask them what is involved in "metering" the
new battery and find out if we need to buy some new hardware.
If there is a diagnostic bench for the battery and we get one, you can
bet that I'll have it apart and be probing the interface with a
protocol analyzer :-) I just hate the "I've got a secret" game.
Did you get to see a battery apart? I wonder what the BMS board looks
like and what kind of interface it has. Serial, 1-Wire or ????
John
On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:34:04 -0700, "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>On Monster Garage... I watched John Zick play with the data in side every
>pack.
>But.. he would not let me see the actual data, or explain it. So.. he kept
>his promise of not telling me much about the BMS in the V28 packs.
>I understand his point of view.. and his employers.. but man I wanted to
>know!!
>
>Cool stuff. but... it does need to be kept where it can do the owners the
>most good.
>
>Rich Rudman
>Manzanita Micro
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 4:12 PM
>Subject: V28 battery (was Re: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet
someone
>is happy.)
>
>
>> On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 16:55:02 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> >1. The V28 is an AWESOME battery. While the show said we had 3 runs, I
>> >believe it was actually 5 full 1/4 mile runs + at least 4 hard launch
>> >short runs at the shop, (ON ONE CHARGE) + 50-75% charge remaining in
>> >the pack after all was said and done.
>>
>> I was down at my friendly local electric motor shop doing some work
>> today when we got a fax from Milwaukee. We're a factory-authorized
>> service center for Milwaukee so we get all the news. The fax
>> announced a 5 year/ 2000 cycle warranty on the battery. The processor
>> inside the battery tracks the time from initial charge and the cycle
>> count.
>>
>> The FAX said that the cycle count and elapsed time could be displayed
>> but it wasn't clear if this is on the consumer charger or on a
>> diagnostic station that we'll presumably have to buy.
>>
>> In any event, considering the operating conditions in the hands of
>> construction workers, having the confidence to offer a 5 year warranty
>> is impressive indeed.
>>
>> John
>> ---
>> John De Armond
>> See my website for my current email address
>> http://www.johngsbbq.com
>> Cleveland, Occupied TN
>> Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
>>
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
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Jeff,
I think one of the resons my EV is so wasteful on power is that it takes
to many amps to accelerate, only once I get above some set rpm does it
seem to stop lugging. The lugging away from stoplights is more wasteful,
but the next lower gear is too much change.
What is this "lugging", that you describe, like? Do you hear any type
of a squeal or growling noise while accelerating? Does the lugging just
go away when you get to a certain point?
I have something similar going on. I have quite a bit lower pack
voltage though.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, and WarP Motors
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
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huh?
I don't understand how i would get from a stop idleing at 500 rpm to
moving, unless you are suggesting slipping the clutch(not possible) but
you also said if i had a clutch, so ???
Right now my instumentation consists of an emeter. period. I need more.
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Hi list,
After working full time the last few days to get more knowledge on EVs and
the direction I want to progress, I've come to a basic setup and what I'd
like to ask is if I'm going in the right direction:
Donor car will be a Civic or maybe a Hyundai Excel(MY96+) called Accent then
in the US. I know the Civic has been done and Lee stated this was an ok
choice, any one done a Hyundai Excel (accent)? I'm strongly leaning to the
Civic due to the abundance of performance parts for this vehicle, although
the Hyundai is lighter and a lot cheaper glider.
System will be DC based, I originally wanted an AC system as they appear
more of a turnkey solution, yet they seem to be limited by an inverter that
only handles 100KW? My next conversion will likely be AC though.
Motor 9" ADC or Warp 9" (will a 9" motor fit in a Civic?)
Zilla 1K
18 orbital 34XCD
PFC-20 charger on board with some kind of BMS (regulators).
Keeping Civic gearbox and clutch. This is Girlfriend friendly and I can let
other people drive it.
Is this going to be useable for two things:
1. Showing that EVs are just as fast as an ICE - I' like to change some
perceptions.
2. A daily run around that can do 20 miles without making the battery suffer
if driven like an normal ICE - my girlfriend will be driving it at times -,
so say a max range of 40 miles?
Am I going in the right direction?
Cheers,
Dave
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On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:40:54 -0600, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> NEDRA never required reverse in any of the classes. However,
>you are correct that the NHRA does require that cars have reverse.
>Thus, if John wants to continue to bracket race in the NHRA, he will
>be forced to install some sort of reverse at some point. If he were
>to win an NHRA bracket racing event, no doubt that one of the other
>competitors would protest and he would be disqualified. (It just
>takes one competitor to protest.)
That's really a pretty trivial problem to address if all that is
required is enough reverse to get back to the staging line. A scuff
wheel setup contacting one wheel a la the old EV Warrior ebike using a
PM starter motor on an engagement lever would do the trick with
minimal weight penalty and no modifications to the main drivetrain.
I understand the NHRA's rule on this, given the crowded ticket most
race nights and the need to end the event in time for increasingly
frequent local noise curfews. Having to have each crew run out and
push the car back to the line would consume a lot of time over the
course of a meet.
>
> I sought to keep the NEDRA rules as simple as possible. The
>goal of NEDRA is to promote innovation. Too many rules does just the
>opposite. It is also hard for folks to comply and leads to hard
>feelings when you must disqualify a person at race day.
>
> Indeed, this reverse rule was inserted "in secret." Ken,
>John, and Rod decided to exclude me from the rules committee email
>discussion for quite awhile. John mentioned that I was "not active"
>when this rule was discussed. An interesting way to put it, I have to admit.
Given your repeated public reactionary spoiled-brat, "didn't get my
way" sniping on this list despite being asked not to, I'm not sure
anyone can take any of your complaints at face value.* Nonetheless,
let's address this rules "problem".
How many times does racing have to make the same mistake before it
learns? The lesson is that unrestrained costs kills racing, no matter
what the class. Most of the so-called "restrictive rules" are
designed to contain costs, particularly in the bracket (hobby)
classes.
Even at the pro level, one runs out of finger counting the series that
have been killed or nearly killed because of unrestrained costs that
loose rules permitted.
IMSA GTP
Indy Cars as we knew them.
F1
Top Fuel and Funny Car
CART
And on and on.
I'm a tuner more than a driver so I don't like having my slick, secret
new idea being restricted any more than the next guy but I also
realize that there will always be someone with a fatter checkbook who
will beat me over the head with it if the rules permit.
Even the idea of a separate cost-is-no-object, no-holds-barred class
never works for long. F1 tried that for awhile until it came down to
Honda, Honda and more Honda, with everyone else packing up and going
home. Top Fuel tried that too and it almost killed the class.
Everyone bitched and moaned when the 3.40 gear rule was put into
effect but that rule probably saved Top Fuel. Had the costs and speeds
kept accelerating like they were, Top Fuel would likely now be but a
memory.
If costs hadn't killed the class then government interference in the
name of safety would have. Legislated slow-down lane lengths,
grandstand protection from shrapnel and runaway cars, all that stuff
was on the horizon or popping up in various places.
It seems to me that EV racing is even more prone to the checkbook
racing syndrome than other types of racing simply because megabucks
can buy parts so much more superior to what the rest of us can buy
that money alone could make even the slowest driver into a winner.
Just think what you could do if you had a few million bux to work
with. Superconducting AC motors. Explosively fast primary batteries.
Screw charging, just toss 'em in the garbage after each run. Pyro
batteries, MHD generators, exotic supercap or flywheel voltage
stiffeners, the list of what megabucks can buy is endless.
Drop down a level. Look at how much farther ahead John is simply by
virtue of being given high performance batteries and the one-off
custom-built motor. That's perfectly fine AT THIS POINT for an
effectively unlimited class but it's not OK for grassroots racers. EV
racing could be over with before it gets started if wallet wars get
started now.
> The very odd limitations on transmissions seems illogical to
>me. You can't use a non-stock transmission, but it is OK to remove
>the transmission completely. I saw no point in regulating the type of
>transmission, because it stifles innovation, so I suggested chopping
>this restriction completely. Also, to require a stock transmission,
>but allow the removal of the transmission, seems completely illogical to me.
That looks like a perfectly logical cost containment rule to me.
Remove the tranny if you like - a common practice on the street. That
costs almost nothing. Use the stock tranny if you like. But no $8K
Lencos or made-from-scratch CNC billet transmissions. Pretty simple
concept, really.
>
> The requirement for carpet and headliner just seemed petty
>to me. I certainly wouldn't want to disqualify a car because it was
>missing some carpet in the back seat or didn't have a headliner. If
>my car were bounced out of the SC class for this, I think I would not
>be very happy.
Again, cost containment and probably to a lesser extent, safety. Look
what happened to NHRA street drags in the 60s when the manufacturers
decided to get involved and the rules let 'em. One year it was OK to
remove the carpet and dash and the next year we had factory "stock"
cars with acid-dipped bare bodies, aluminum foil sheetmetal, custom
lightened frame rails, one-off sand-cast blocks and heads and all the
other megabuck stuff that knocked the Saturday night racers back into
the grandstands.
Not being involved with any rulemaking and only standing on the
outside looking in, it seems to me that the logic is that if you force
the racers to retain the heavy OEM carpet and other sound deadening
stuff then any potential gain from doing expensive and potentially
unsafe lightening things such as acid dipping won't make enough
difference to warrant the cost. With a mandatory 500 or so lbs of
upholstery and carpet on board, lightening the body and frame to shed
20 pounds doesn't help much.
One could argue for minimum weights and ballasts but it's simpler and
cheaper all around just to require the OEM stuff to remain in place.
John
* I don't have a horse in this race, I don't know the details of the
dispute or even the "other side's" names and don't care, and I don't
know who might be right and who might be wrong. But I do know that
your continuing sniping about "the other side" is winning you no
friends, is polarizing people against you who might otherwise support
your position, is counter-productive to whatever it is you're trying
to accomplish, is damaging to EV racing in general and is Exhibit A
for why active racers should not be on rules committees. Advisory
boards, maybe but definitely not rulemaking.
If you want have any hope of changing NEDRA, Bill, then you need to
park the spoiled-brat attitude, take your argument to the proper forum
and make your case without the use of "fighting words". You very well
may be 100% in the right and the other side 100% wrong but frankly, I
quit listening when you or anyone else starts shouting conspiracies
and secret meetings and calling people names and all that other rot.
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
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> Not being involved with any rulemaking and only standing on the
> outside looking in, it seems to me that the logic is that if you force
> the racers to retain the heavy OEM carpet and other sound deadening
> stuff then any potential gain from doing expensive and potentially
> unsafe lightening things such as acid dipping won't make enough
> difference to warrant the cost. With a mandatory 500 or so lbs of
> upholstery and carpet on board, lightening the body and frame to shed
> 20 pounds doesn't help much.
>
> One could argue for minimum weights and ballasts but it's simpler and
> cheaper all around just to require the OEM stuff to remain in place.
>
> John
Yeah, a minimum of standard comfort measures would also make them seem
like true "street-legal" cars, but wouldn't it be even more
entertaining if you also required a kick-ass stereo *and* to have it
blasting when you make your run! Kind of NEDRA-meets-"battle of the
bands"!
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I wouldn't waste my time on that motor. It's too expensive. Meant for the
Ranger. You have no reduction gearing. There are AC solutions for sale but
they are expensive. You're better off buying a used Solectria with AC
systems. The motors were surplus & new but still you need a controller &
reduction gears. Way too much money to spend on them in the first place.
AC motors are cheap. The controllers are expensive. If you have money I'd
recommend a Zilla Controller and an 8 or 9 inch ADC motor. You'll be very
happy with the performance. A small mini truck would be a good pick with
120vdc at least of golfcart batteries to give you a 50 mile range. Be
careful. a 50 mile range means a usable 25mile range without beating up the
batteries. If you want your batteries to last you can't use the full charge
on every cycle. Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "george.underwood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 8:04 PM
Subject: Nissan AC conversion, Ebay motor questions
Im a newbie just starting to research EVs (I am an electronics engineer
but
don't have experience in power/motor control). I currently favor an AC
system after doing a little reading. Considering a conversion for an 88
Nissan Pulsar NX I have sitting around. This is a front wheel drive 5
speed
manual tranny vehicle. Work commute is 30mi round trip but for a safety
pad,
lunch or side errands, I would like a 50 mile range. Speed varies but only
occasional interstate driving to the next exit or two. NOT interested in
drag race except to safely merge in traffic in the slow lane. Fast
charging
NOT required (overnight OK). Maybe save a little money on the charger
initially.
Future add-on of an Air Conditioner compressor drive and condenser fan
control is probable. Its hot here in GA.
Anybody have any comments on the "Ford Siemens EV Electric Vehicle New
Crate
Motor" for sale on ebay? Seller (Electromavin) says this is new crate
motor.
Specific questions if anybody knows:
1) Are these possibly factory seconds, that did not pass QA or
performance tests or are they genuine first rate crate motors?
2) I assume this motor is set up for an immediate gear reduction box
(not included)-correct?
3) What would I need to adapt to that gear on the output shaft?
4) Or is the gear removable (how?) and replaceable with what? (I would
like to adapt to the Pulsar tranny, either with or without clutch).
5) I assume I could use the existing car radiator and small pump for
cooling liquid. Correct?
6)Are there any particular control issues with this motor?
7) Any other comments on this motor? .....As possible plant for the
Pulsar?
8) What other specs/info would I need?
9) Is this a reasonable price? ($2000)
Here are advertised specs:
* Motor Type: 3 Phase AC
* Horsepower: 90 hp
* Power: 67 kW / 33 continuous
* Torque: 149 ft.lbf (202 N.m)
* RPM: 3500-9700
* Motor can operate on 215 -- 380 Volts AC
* Motor stand alone weight: 178 lbs. US
* Energy Capacity: PbA - 23 kWh/NiMH - 26 kWh
* Battery Type: PbA/NiMH
* Battery Modules: PbA 39/NiMH - 25
The motors are marked:
* Ford Traction Motor
* Type 1 PV5 133
* F8Y8 148280 AC
* 4W S20 WII
* Th CI, F
* Rated Battery Voltage 250V
* Mfg. By Siemens A.G. (written in German)
* Motor stand alone weight: 178 lbs. US
Thanks
George Underwood
Byron GA
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On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 14:31:26 +1000, "David Ankers"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>The guts of the v28s:
>
>http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=508443
Thanks much for the link. That info and the low cost of the packs
(street price just a bit over $100) has my juices flowing....
Are the RC guys using individual cell BMS or just charging the string
as a single battery?
What chargers?
I have a non-EV project in mind where these cells would work perfectly
if I didn't have to BMS every one individually. Charging speed isn't
an issue - overnight would be fine - so I can sacrifice speed for
simplicity.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We are just using standard RC chargers which handle Lithium cells, the v28s
are charged as Lithium Polymers despite being Lithium Ion based (most rc
chargers have options for both). A typical mid-range charger is something
like this:
http://www.rc-direct.com/schulze330.htm
> Are the RC guys using individual cell BMS or just charging the
> string as a single battery?
Really it's both, often with v28s, I would just stick it on the charger and
charge it as a string. However, most people make the packs with balancing
tabs on them and can be charged through a balancer. Examples are here:
http://www.espritmodel.com/accesories_balancer.html
For RC, some kind of individual cell BMS is a must though. The balancer goes
inline between the charger and the pack. I expect these are the same idea as
regulators used in EVs just much smaller? When charging LiPo batteries I
*always* use the balancer inline, LiPos need babying far more than the v28s.
With v28s I'll often keep an eye on the balance and do a balancing charge
once every 5 cycles (they never seem to need it though).
Hence why the RC guys love them, they can be discharged to a level where an
RC heli won't fly any longer and still spring right back on a charge,
furthermore packs never really seem to go out of balance much - A too deeply
discharged LiPo on the other hand would swell up and be useless. Most RC
LiPo packs can be charged at 1C only, for some people, the v28s are handling
3C charges fine.
These packs were going for US$80 on ebay for a while, unfortunately, all the
RC guys are getting in bidding wars over them and it's keeping the price
high. Currently the E-one Moli guys (who make the cells) are at full
capacity just to supply Milwaukee but I'm sure this will change in time.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Neon John
Sent: Wednesday, 26 April 2006 3:39 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: V28 battery (was Re: Thanks a lot Monster Garbage. I'll bet
someone is happy.)
On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 14:31:26 +1000, "David Ankers"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>The guts of the v28s:
>
>http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=508443
Thanks much for the link. That info and the low cost of the packs
(street price just a bit over $100) has my juices flowing....
Are the RC guys using individual cell BMS or just charging the string
as a single battery?
What chargers?
I have a non-EV project in mind where these cells would work perfectly
if I didn't have to BMS every one individually. Charging speed isn't
an issue - overnight would be fine - so I can sacrifice speed for
simplicity.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
