EV Digest 5419
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: EMB's .. Electro Mechanical Batteries
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: EMB's .. Electro Mechanical Batteries
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Hybrid legalities
by "Erik G. Burrows" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Prius air-conditioning
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Brad Baylor)
5) Re: EV Charging station
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Chargeing plugs and dump chargeing
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: EMB's .. Electro Mechanical Batteries
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) OT... was Re: EMB's .. Electro Mechanical Batteries now measurements
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: EMB's .. Electro Mechanical Batteries
by "David Ankers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Does John really need reverse? was:White Zombie Update...360
Volts...More HP!
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Reverse with series motors, was: Does John really need revers
e? was:White Zombie
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Prius air-conditioning
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Brad Baylor)
13) RE: Chargeing plugs and dump chargeing
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) OT... was Re: EMB's .. Electro Mechanical Batteries now measurements
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: EV Charging station
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: EV Charging station
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Prius air-conditioning
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Hi There! (Introduction)
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Weight limits of micro micro cars
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: What is it with CVTs?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Hi There! (Introduction)
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Weight limits of micro micro cars
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
since i am a ranking science student, i guess it is easy for
me to reply to your nice question
answer is : yes .. you can turn the assembly of twin bike wheels easily
it will be as difficult to turn the oppositely
rotating bike wheel as it will be to rotate the two when they
are NOT spinning ! since the forces generated by the spinning
get cancelled out if they are on the same shaft
some 'natural' phenomena look very wierd
consider this :
to the dia by 1 foor in a 10 ft dia circle i need to add 3.14 feet to the
circle
i need to add the same 3.14 feet to the equator .. to increas its dia by 1
foot
and to a much much larger circle .. light years across in dia .. still only
3.14 feet
needs to be added ..
wierd .. huh !
..peekay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 5:06 AM
Subject: RE: EMB's .. Electro Mechanical Batteries
> Just a quick question about counter-rotating flywheels.
>
> Do they truly cancel each other's gyro forces?
>
> I'm thinking of the experiment where you sit on a swivel chair holding a
> spinning bike wheel by the axle. If you try to twist the wheel, it is
> hard to do, and ends up spinning you on the chair.
> (see http://www.exploratorium.edu/snacks/bicycle_wheel_gyro.html)
>
> Now if there were two bike wheels on the axle spinning in opposite
> directions, I imagine that it would still be difficult to twist the
> wheels by the axle, though I would remain stationary on the chair.
>
> Or do the opposing forces cancel each other to the point that it takes
> no more effort than twisting a stationary bike wheel?
>
> Mark
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Neon John
> > Sent: Friday, 28 April 2006 8:05 AM
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: Re: EMB's .. Electro Mechanical Batteries
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 03:55:47 -0400, "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Not to mention the driving/handling issue with the
> > gyroscopic effect, of
> > >all that rotating iron or whatEVer? For a single rail train
> > these things
> > >held it up, turning wasn't as much an issue. Trains don't
> > hafta swerve,
> > >much<g>! I think we should stick to more benign batteries,
> > and a damn good
> > >fuze and lineswith.
> >
> > As far as the car goes, the gyroscopic forces are completely canceled
> > by having two flywheels of identical mass rotating in opposite
> > directions, preferably one inside the other.
> >
> > That does not, however relieve the forces that the flywheel bearings
> > have to withstand. It will be quite a trick to make a low volume high
> > energy storage flywheel rugged enough for car use.
> >
> > John
> > ---
> > John De Armond
> > See my website for my current email address
> > http://www.johngsbbq.com
> > Cleveland, Occupied TN
> > Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.6/324 - Release Date: 25/04/2006
>
>
___________________________________________________________
Switch an email account to Yahoo! Mail, you could win FIFA World Cup tickets.
http://uk.mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
thank you for commenting on the comments of other members
can we come back to comments on the object in question ..
it's possibilities, pros, cons, who makes them, what are
the prices, can they power up a car and replace an engine ..
or are they good only for replacing the battery to start the
engine and light the lamps ?
..peekay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 6:14 AM
Subject: Re: EMB's .. Electro Mechanical Batteries
> > That's gyroscopic precession. Trying to rotate the axis will result in
> > a force on the axis.
> > With two counterrotating gyros of the same mass and rpm, the sum of the
> > two forces should cancel out and the vehicle sees no net force.
> > However, each gyro still exhibits the same original force on its axle
> > and bearings. And the magnitude of force here looks like it will be
> > enormous!
> >
>
> You could say we're more likely to have EVs with nuclear power than
> on-board gyro storage and be done with it...
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.6/324 - Release Date: 25/04/2006
>
>
___________________________________________________________
NEW - Yahoo! 360 Your one place to blog, create, publish and share!
http://uk.360.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My original post may have been confusing, please allow me to elaborate:
I plan on converting my truck to a hybrid system including battery pack,
but the legalities of the conversion, and especially the legalities
surrounding the power source are a big question.
I'm looking for documentation, web sites, etc. regarding the above legal
questions.
Thanks for your help,
Erik G. Burrows
> Hey all, I'm new to this list, and I have yet to begin the conversion
> project I have planned. I'd really like any pointers all you have for
> the legalities of electric and hybrid conversions... and here's the hard
> part: in California.
>
> I'm especially interested in the legalities concerning the various
> options for a hybrid systems's power unit: Gasoline, Diesel even Turbine
> (eg. Capstone).
>
> Thanks!
>
> Erik G. Burrows
> www.erikburrows.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Toyota Prius has all electric AC from the 2004 year on. I noticed
on car-part.com you can get a Prius compressor, evaporator and
condensor for about $800 from various salvage yards. Does anyone have
specifics on what voltage the compressor motor is and how many amps?
It the motor/compressor integrated as a sealed unit like home ACs? And
what other parts might be needed to make it work in a conversion? Any
relevant web pages?
Brad Baylor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Please send the pictures.
About the SAE specs, cool.
Cor van de water said "Dump charging should preferably still use a charger "
What charger? Even rich doesn't have a charger that does 200-400A...yet. It is
why I mentioned using a zilla or a curtis. maybe an altrax.
About ultracaps. Caps are for 100,000 of cycles with large voltage
swings just not even what we want here, it would require a really
special dc-dc.
A bunker of submarine batteries at larger stations, banks of large
flooded bats for smaller stations.AGM would be nice, but $$$
The choice between taps or a controller.
Lets say I was gonna use a controller for the dump charger. How much
inductance and capacitance would I need? would this inductor be huge or
what?
Would a twistlock plug be ok for the 220V charge plug? How do we
establish a standard? what about what is commonlyavailable at boat
shops? (BTW, i have found thes places to have a great selection of
quality connectors, better than rat shack or battery places, they have
water sensitive autonomy issues )
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product/10001/-1/10001/145251/10001/311/310/9
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/categoryg/10001/-1/10001/311/310/9/man/asc/15/grid
some of the stuff is reasonable
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 08:04:24PM -0700, Cor van de Water wrote:
>
> AVCON is a proprietary 'standard' with a pilot signal next to
> the high current pins.
Is AVCON proprietary? What does that mean?
Is Level III charging a standard? Can you get AVCON heads that handle that?
Thanks!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Dutch (as most Europeans) have officially forbidden the
written use of "ons" (ounce of 1/10 kg or 100g) and "pond"
(pound of 1/2 kg = 500g) so you mainly find it in spoken
language, in markets and in ordering an amount of groceries,
which then will be dutifully measured:
"You want a pound? Is an ounce more OK? So you get (and pay for)
600 grams of whatever - a chunk of cheese for example.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Evan Tuer
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 8:21 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: EMB's .. Electro Mechanical Batteries
Don Cameron wrote:
> Being in a metric country, I have never heard of a "metric pound" - where
is
> this used?!?? As for the "US Pound", sorry to say, it is really called
the
> "international pound" or the "avoirdupois pound".
I'd never heard of it before either, but according to wikipedia:
"In many countries that use the SI or metric system, the pound (or its
translation, for example, the German Pfund, the French livre, the
Dutch pond, the Spanish and Portuguese libras, or the Chinese jin) is
used as an informal term for half of a kilogram, therefore for this
case the pound is 500 grams. In many cases, this was an official
redefinition back in the 19th century, but its use is generally no
longer officially sanctioned. These replaced hundreds of older pounds,
for example, one of around 459 to 460 grams in Spain, Portugal, and
Latin America; 498.1 g in Norway; and several different ones in what
is now Germany. In the case of the Dutch pond, this was officially
redefined as 1 kg, with an ounce of 100 g; the former has fallen out
of use, and if the pound is used today it is likely the 500 g variety,
but the 100 g ounce remains in limited use."
Bizarre. Anyway, apparently your Avoirdupois pound is 0.45359237 kg
currently!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's true
Here in the UK shop-keepers are legally required to sell things in
metric, but we as customers are allowed to ask for the imperial
equivalent.
That's true right down to the good old 'pint'. It's now technically
slightly more than a pint, I believe :)
Nikki
On Apr 28, 2006, at 6:36 AM, Cor van de Water wrote:
The Dutch (as most Europeans) have officially forbidden the
written use of "ons" (ounce of 1/10 kg or 100g) and "pond"
(pound of 1/2 kg = 500g) so you mainly find it in spoken
language, in markets and in ordering an amount of groceries,
which then will be dutifully measured:
"You want a pound? Is an ounce more OK? So you get (and pay for)
600 grams of whatever - a chunk of cheese for example.
Regards,
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Dutch also decide to change the spelling of words in the dictionary
every now and then, often it seems just for fun although it's generally
believed that it's to make spelling bees more contentious.
Gek.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cor van de Water
Sent: Friday, 28 April 2006 3:37 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: EMB's .. Electro Mechanical Batteries
The Dutch (as most Europeans) have officially forbidden the
written use of "ons" (ounce of 1/10 kg or 100g) and "pond"
(pound of 1/2 kg = 500g) so you mainly find it in spoken
language, in markets and in ordering an amount of groceries,
which then will be dutifully measured:
"You want a pound? Is an ounce more OK? So you get (and pay for)
600 grams of whatever - a chunk of cheese for example.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Evan Tuer
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 8:21 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: EMB's .. Electro Mechanical Batteries
Don Cameron wrote:
> Being in a metric country, I have never heard of a "metric pound" - where
is
> this used?!?? As for the "US Pound", sorry to say, it is really called
the
> "international pound" or the "avoirdupois pound".
I'd never heard of it before either, but according to wikipedia:
"In many countries that use the SI or metric system, the pound (or its
translation, for example, the German Pfund, the French livre, the
Dutch pond, the Spanish and Portuguese libras, or the Chinese jin) is
used as an informal term for half of a kilogram, therefore for this
case the pound is 500 grams. In many cases, this was an official
redefinition back in the 19th century, but its use is generally no
longer officially sanctioned. These replaced hundreds of older pounds,
for example, one of around 459 to 460 grams in Spain, Portugal, and
Latin America; 498.1 g in Norway; and several different ones in what
is now Germany. In the case of the Dutch pond, this was officially
redefined as 1 kg, with an ounce of 100 g; the former has fallen out
of use, and if the pound is used today it is likely the 500 g variety,
but the 100 g ounce remains in limited use."
Bizarre. Anyway, apparently your Avoirdupois pound is 0.45359237 kg
currently!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter,
I offered two possibilities in recent posts:
1. anti-parallel switching of the Field and Armature
2. switch an independent voltage source (low voltage battery)
in reverse onto the Field, so when the controller send a
current through Armature and battery (not Field) the motor
will run in reverse.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:52 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Does John really need reverse? was:White Zombie
Update...360 Volts...More HP!
> I talked with John a few weeks ago about a way of re-wiring the existing
> motors so that *with no additional high power contacts* he can get reverse
> on the siamese pair. It requires an additional little low-voltage
> controller and two little changeover contactors to reverse power the
> motors
Umm exactly how would you use little contactors to reverse wire the motors
without disconnecting the high power connections? Without, that is,
shorting out something?
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John,
I see that this will work but do not want to propose this as a
solution for a twin motor that is already packed or a motor
that is already installed.
I did not want to tamper with the motor - for most the rewinding
of a motor is a daunting task, the addition of a battery a trivial.
Note that my suggestion also does not affect the main power path,
no contactors in line - only adding a contactor to short the
battery over the Field terminals in reverse direction.
Since the reversal will be a few minutes at maximum, there is
hardly any capacity needed - a few Ah is sufficient at a few volts,
so the battery can consist of a few D-cells and be very lightweight.
Another alternative is the use of the accessory battery on the
Armature winding, but the trouble is that as soon as reverse is
engaged, the HV battery will have a "ground fault" through the 12V
accessories which may simply shut down the car instead of reversing it.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Neon John
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 12:55 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Reverse with series motors, was: Does John really need
revers e? was:White Zombie
On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 23:30:13 -0700, Cor van de Water
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I asked myself: what is the simplest way to make one series
>motor reverse, without affecting its normal performance?
I described a much simpler method a couple of weeks ago that involves
no contactors in the main power circuit, no odd voltages or extra
batteries. It involves a minor change to the motor and one single
pole contactor that is open during normal operation and one relay that
is open during normal operation. In other words, no added resistance
to the normal power circuit. I'm currently implementing this design
on my Citi to eliminate all the reversing relays and wiring.
Step one is to add a lightweight shunt winding to each field pole
using available space. The winding is for intermittent duty so it
doesn't have to be heavy. It's designed to receive pack voltage.
A single pole normally open contactor is wired so that when energized,
the series field is shorted out. The controller output goes directly
to the armature.
The shunt field is hooked in magnetic opposition to the series field.
When reverse is selected, the main contactor closes, shunting the
current around the series field and the relay is closed, applying pack
voltage at low current to the shunt field. The reverse polarity shunt
field causes the motor to turn in reverse.
Because of limited space, the shunt field will only supply a fraction
of the field of the series winding but that is enough. It will simply
result in higher armature current at low speed. Given the short
duration of reversing, again this is of no concern.
I'd probably interlock the shunt field relay through the throttle pot
microswitch so that it is only energized when actually moving.
There is an even simpler (electrically) method that involves only the
contactor and some mechanical modification. In this design, the
solenoid simultaneously shorts the series field and mechanically
inserts an NIB permanent magnet through a small hole drilled in the
field pole. This small supermagnet supplies sufficient field to run
in reverse.
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok found this so far:
"It has it's own variable-speed electric motor on the high-voltage
system."
From:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Prius_Technical_Stuff/message/11240
Denso news release:
http://www.denso.co.jp/motorshow/2003/en/presskit/product_electric/
Picture, it's integrated:
http://www.denso.co.jp/motorshow/2003/en/presskit/common/jpg/electric_compressor.jpg
Brad Baylor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Nick,
Charging Standards are in SAE Standard J1772
for a proposal from AC Propulsion to reduce complexity
(or add confusion?) see the discussion at
http://www.acpropulsion.com/Press%20releases/Level%202+.htm
Last I saw was that AVCON connector and protocol are
"Awaiting standardization" see the overview at
http://www.madkatz.com/ev/chargestation.html
Basically this means that Avcon developed it and sells it and
tries to convince others that their solution is good for all,
in other words to standardize their proprietary solution.
Let me know if you find it has been standardized in the
mean time.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Nick Austin
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 10:30 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Chargeing plugs and dump chargeing
On Thu, Apr 27, 2006 at 08:04:24PM -0700, Cor van de Water wrote:
>
> AVCON is a proprietary 'standard' with a pilot signal next to
> the high current pins.
Is AVCON proprietary? What does that mean?
Is Level III charging a standard? Can you get AVCON heads that handle that?
Thanks!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> It's true
>
> Here in the UK shop-keepers are legally required to sell things in
> metric, but we as customers are allowed to ask for the imperial
> equivalent.
>
> That's true right down to the good old 'pint'. It's now technically
> slightly more than a pint, I believe :)
>
> Nikki
>
You'd lose the alliteration of "popping down to the pub for a pint" if
you had to ask for "half a litre"...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shana wrote:
What charger? Even rich doesn't have a charger that does
200-400A...yet. It is why I mentioned using a zilla or a curtis.
maybe an altrax.
Aerovironment makes 900 and 1000A chargers for more than 10 years
by now. This is not the charger (can't find the link) but
looks identical to it:
http://www.aerovironment.com/av_products_detail.php?id=67
Interesting article:
http://www.aerovironment.com/posicharge.php
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff,
Rich repeatedly reports on his 75kW developments and progresses.
I assume this charger can do 300V so it must be at least 250A.
Indeed, any buck-converter can be used as a form of battery
controller, if it has the right sensors and smartness.
(charge profile, V and A limits, temp compensation and the like)
Actually my AGMs are hardly more expensive and floodeds,
especially when you have to pay someone to do the maintenance.
My batteries have each the same energy content as a Trojan T-105
(12V 110Ah versus 6V 225Ah) and they cost $85 versus around $50
for the Trojans, if I may believe others.
I know the price and the value of sealed batteries, I do not
know a price for the floodeds, so correct me if I am wrong.
I only see that the AGMs are sold by many thousands per month
because they are perfect for rugged environments that must be
able to run with little supervision and manpower.
A really large flywheel would also work very well, as it can do
many cycles, can store large amounts of energy, in static installation
there is no issue with vibration or gyroscopic effect (except
maybe in an earthquake) and when build in an underground bunker
the result of a catastrophic failure would simply be loss of
service and a bad stench of vaporized carbon fiber...
Ultracaps are still pretty small and expensive and not very
energy dense, though they can release a lot of power instantly.
They are also very finicky about max voltage, so high voltage
needs a good balancer or they go like a christmas light string
with too many bulbs shorted - the rest goes in a flash.
Inductance depends on the switching frequency, look at the
Zilla, it can live with a very limited (motor) inductance due
to its 15+kHz frequency. Capacitance is not very critical,
as long as its ESR can take the AC current without overheating
http://octopus.freeyellow.com/esr.html
Usual solution is to use enough caps in parallel: I have a 60A
5V supply that has 10 caps at its output.
I will send the picture separately.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 9:44 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: EV Charging station
Please send the pictures.
About the SAE specs, cool.
Cor van de water said "Dump charging should preferably still use a charger "
What charger? Even rich doesn't have a charger that does 200-400A...yet. It
is why I mentioned using a zilla or a curtis. maybe an altrax.
About ultracaps. Caps are for 100,000 of cycles with large voltage
swings just not even what we want here, it would require a really
special dc-dc.
A bunker of submarine batteries at larger stations, banks of large
flooded bats for smaller stations.AGM would be nice, but $$$
The choice between taps or a controller.
Lets say I was gonna use a controller for the dump charger. How much
inductance and capacitance would I need? would this inductor be huge or
what?
Would a twistlock plug be ok for the 220V charge plug? How do we
establish a standard? what about what is commonlyavailable at boat
shops? (BTW, i have found thes places to have a great selection of
quality connectors, better than rat shack or battery places, they have
water sensitive autonomy issues )
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product/10001/-1/10001/1
45251/10001/311/310/9
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/categoryg/10001/-1/10001
/311/310/9/man/asc/15/grid
some of the stuff is reasonable
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
2004 and up Prius have 200V battery, though the inverter
has an up-converter to create a high voltage for the 50 kW
of motor (I believe it is 500V, not sure though)
So it depends where the A/C is connected, there are several
people that have a Prius and likely a service manual, so they
can give you confirmation if it runs directly from the battery.
(I have the 2001-2003 service manual for my Prius ;-)
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Brad Baylor
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 10:39 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Prius air-conditioning
Ok found this so far:
"It has it's own variable-speed electric motor on the high-voltage
system."
From:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Prius_Technical_Stuff/message/11240
Denso news release:
http://www.denso.co.jp/motorshow/2003/en/presskit/product_electric/
Picture, it's integrated:
http://www.denso.co.jp/motorshow/2003/en/presskit/common/jpg/electric_compre
ssor.jpg
Brad Baylor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Apr 28, 2006, at 1:28 AM, Death to All Spammers wrote:
Not too many lady EVistas around, so welcome!
Thanks so much. I'm really hoping I can prove all my doubters wrong.
Some of which are family and friends, who think that regardless of my
gender the idea of an electric Minor is silly...
I'd appreciate any words of wisdom anyone would like to offer. Since
the project is a restoration in addition to a conversion I'm keen to
do something which will provide me with the greatest range rather
than the cheapest cost. (A restoration is of course a large
undertaking and allows me to budget much better for more expensive
parts than a standard conversion I feel). I'm planning to include
NiMh or NiCad batteries rather than lead acid too, since we may be
moving to Ontario and I would like the car to still work well in cold
weather!
I would love to hear people's thoughts on this. The car, in her stock
form, is a tad over 1600lbs kerbweight. The front end of the car has
an unbelievable amount of space under the hood. Okay, so I won't be
able to put everything under there if I want to keep weight
distribution correct, but it does at least allow me the luxury of
moving my trunk from front to back if the rather small trunk is taken
up with batteries!
That's a pretty lightweight affair, so you could probably get away
with a 22kw AC system. Victor talks about it here:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/message/63982 Of
course, if you want to do some "tyre"-shredding, there's nothing like
a smaller Advance DC and any Zilla!
Heh. Tyre-shredding isn't on my list. Since I'm half Canadian and my
partner is American we're planning a move to Canada. I believe the
speed limit in Ontario is about 65 mph, and over here in the UK I can
cope doing 70 although 75 would be nice. Since most of that would be
freeway driving I don't mind taking a while to get to that magic
number. After all, the original car had a 0-60 of about 24 seconds!
While my car is pretty light however, I may be called on occasionally
to carry instruments around, so something which could take the extra
weight would be useful. Since my car is the lightest of the Minor
incarnations I have at my disposal two different stock leaf springs
to use on the back; the strongest of which was designed to be used
with the 6cwt light commercials!
I'd been thinking about the Siemens based systems. As I'm in the Uk
it seems the sensible choice. At the moment however I do need to
figure out exactly how much of the original car I can take out
without compromising the car's free-tax status and original
registration. As I understand it I need to retain a certain
percentage of the original components in order to prevent a
compulosry "re-registration" and SVA test. The second my car gets re-
tested then I exporting it to Canada becomes a nightmare since it
would be classed as a "new build" and therefore would be difficult to
get through some of the more stringent Canadian saftey checks. If I
am forced to keep the gearbox from my car (can I do that with an AC
system?) then I was leaning toward a DC motor. Ideally though I want
to ditch it. Has anyone put an AC system in a car and ran it through
the standard 'box? Sorry to be so ignorant!
In the meantime, feel free to visit the 'garagecam'. (http://
www.aminorjourney.co.uk/webcam.jpg) It's updated every few minutes
throughout the day and I hope will serve to keep me on track as
several of my friends are all ready nagging at me when they don't see
any progress on the car for a few days!
So, a musician, and a reed-mouthing one at that?! Lawrence plays
bassoon & contrabassoon and makes his own reeds, and my son heaves a
bari sax in high school. Something about music belongs with EVs (even
if it's a recording played on a Plasma Boy stereo)!
I love Baritone sax! As for Contrabassoon- I have some fun tales of
sitting next to one in a performance of Haydn's Creation and not
being able to keep a straight face as every time the thing played the
regular Basoonist would look around in complete fiegned shock and
horror as if some terrible creature had been released from the deep!
Yes, I'm an oboist. I do try to make a living from it and thankfully
all the hard work seems to be paying off. That is of course, when
I'm not geeking about with EV stuff and computers!
By the way. How rude. I assumed that everyone knew what a minor was.
If you're not a UK or Australian or NZ person you may not:
http://www.motorbase.com/vehicle/by-id/1077/
A webpage I cooked up a few weeks ago is here:
http://aminorjourney.co.uk/Photos/EV/preEV/
And this morning i've been uploading some more recent photos of the
strip-down.
http://aminorjourney.co.uk/wordpress/gallery/?file=Hebe%20EV%
20progress%2025April/
Please forgive the terrible coding. I've just installed the plugin
and haven't got it to work just as I want it to yet!
I know there's someone else who is planning an EV conversion to a
pickup...
Regards
NIkki
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
HI all,
I have been driving my converted Fiat 126 (bambino) (FSM Niki) for about 1
month now. It keeps up with traffic no problems and totally screams when
going downhill with about 120 km/hr tail wind. YEAH!
Now, the range is an issue. As i am using SCS225 and only 6 of them, i am
getting 25 km/hr range (stop and start driving).
I would like to in the very near future upgrade my battery pack and use the
current batts for a stand alond system or for another small ev project.
Besides the suspension, i am not sure of how much weight the car can handle
safely.
There is the GVM of 790kg. My car weighs 650kg.
There is a guy over here in Sydney that converted Daihatsu Mira's and he
used a 72 volt system with 12 - 6 volt trojan's, something like 400kg
battery weight.
The cars weigh pretty much the same as mine in petrol form , but my pack
only weighs 180kg's
I can upgrade suspension---no prob, but i am afraid that the little
components in the car's steering and suspension arms will not take the extra
weight of say a 250kg pack.
Has anyone ever exceeded their GVM and had no probs with their car in terms
of reliablity and handling. Has anyone every broken components while
exceeding their GVM??
I think if my car had a useable range of 45km, it would put the vehicle into
a whole new level and increase the practicality of it.
Cheers
_________________________________________________________________
15,000 Velocity Points Velocity NAB Credit Card
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fadsfac%2Enet%2Flink%2Easp%3Fcc%3DNAT030%2E23080%2E0%26clk%3D1%26creativeID%3D34301&_t=754983092&_r=emailtagline&_m=EXT
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> You want to do a really cheap conversion (kind of like the e-volks
> kits). So you throw in a constant speed shunt motor, and let the
> tranny change speeds. No controller is needed now. Mind you, probably
> not the greatest way to go, but possibly the cheapest.
Hmm, except that CVTs are NOT cheap. Well maybe one from an old
snowmobile, but those aren't very strong and are really inefficient.
> You live in a really hilly area. A CVT would allow some slip to
> start, so you aren't starting the electric motor at 0 rpm, and are
> less likely to burn it up.
The good (read efficient) CVTs don't slip (at least I don't think they do).
DC motors don't mind starting from Zero RPM (in fact they typically have
max torque at 0)
> Also, if there are hills you could not get
> up with a direct drive, or even in 2nd on a manual, or possibly even
> 1st on a manual, a CVT might still get you up the hill, or get you up
> faster than you could have otherwise.
I can almost see the argument for hills. However, I don't believe that
the good CVTs don't have a significantly lower ratio than 1st gear on most
manuals, so that arguement doesn't float.
And even if they did, it would have to be a SERIOUSLY steep hill for an EV
in first not to be able to climb it. I climb fairly steep hills in second
(or third depending on speed) in my truck and it's got a wimpy power train
(read battery pack).
Still, even if this was true, you'd have to live somewhere that was
nothing but steep hills for the CVT to be better than a manual overall.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 4/28/06, nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'd been thinking about the Siemens based systems. As I'm in the Uk
> it seems the sensible choice.
Welcome, fellow UK dweller!
> At the moment however I do need to
> figure out exactly how much of the original car I can take out
> without compromising the car's free-tax status and original
> registration. As I understand it I need to retain a certain
> percentage of the original components in order to prevent a
> compulosry "re-registration" and SVA test.
I wouldn't worry too much unless you are grafting two cars together or
something like that. Simply removing or replacing drive train
components, suspension etc should not be a concern. The DFT website
says:
"Rebuilt vehicle is a vehicle to which the Secretary of State is
required to assign a Vehicle
Identification Number and which has been rebuilt using a replacement
chassis or body of the same design and construction as that of the
original vehicle and which - was supplied for the purpose without
having been previously used, or previously formed part of a
registered vehicle."
As long as you have the registration document for your vehicle, and it
matches the chassis number, you should be fine.
> If I
> am forced to keep the gearbox from my car (can I do that with an AC
> system?) then I was leaning toward a DC motor. Ideally though I want
> to ditch it. Has anyone put an AC system in a car and ran it through
> the standard 'box? Sorry to be so ignorant!
It depends on what you want to do. The car is fairly light, so a
suitable DC motor connected directly to the differential would
probably work fine (with a big enough controller).
Depending on the AC system, you may find that you don't have enough
torque to do this, so you might need either a special single ratio
reduction gearbox, belt drive or retain the original gearbox. Since
you are paying for higher efficiency in the AC system, you should also
try to run it at its most efficient speeds (usually faster than direct
drive).
Keeping the gearbox in either situation is usually easier to engineer.
But you will probably then find that the gearbox is the loudest part
of the car!
What's your range requirement?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Robert,
I am at the other end of the spectrum:
Starting with a 1994 Chevrolet S-10, US Electricar built
a factory conversion that weighed about 4800 lbs.
The original S-10 specs are Curb weight 2874 for the regular cab
long bed that was used for this conversion and standard payload
1715 lbs, so max weight would be 4589 lbs.
Of course the engine, exhaust, gas tank and other parts are
taken out of this car but the motor, controller, steering and
brake pumps and the new battery box add a lot of weight back in.
Since I upgraded my batteries, I have now an over 1800 lbs pack
so my guesstimate is that I am close to 5000 lbs, clearly over the
original max weight, but US Electricar already upgraded the
suspension to take extra load (added a spring leaf).
I have had no surprises, other than that it can be hard to stop
such a heavy car on wet streets without ABS - jumping on the
brakes when the light turned yellow in front of me and all I
did was slide towards the line, so I decided to run the
dark orange light.... No point in stopping in the middle of
an intersection.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Robert Chew
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 12:25 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Weight limits of micro micro cars
HI all,
I have been driving my converted Fiat 126 (bambino) (FSM Niki) for about 1
month now. It keeps up with traffic no problems and totally screams when
going downhill with about 120 km/hr tail wind. YEAH!
Now, the range is an issue. As i am using SCS225 and only 6 of them, i am
getting 25 km/hr range (stop and start driving).
I would like to in the very near future upgrade my battery pack and use the
current batts for a stand alond system or for another small ev project.
Besides the suspension, i am not sure of how much weight the car can handle
safely.
There is the GVM of 790kg. My car weighs 650kg.
There is a guy over here in Sydney that converted Daihatsu Mira's and he
used a 72 volt system with 12 - 6 volt trojan's, something like 400kg
battery weight.
The cars weigh pretty much the same as mine in petrol form , but my pack
only weighs 180kg's
I can upgrade suspension---no prob, but i am afraid that the little
components in the car's steering and suspension arms will not take the extra
weight of say a 250kg pack.
Has anyone ever exceeded their GVM and had no probs with their car in terms
of reliablity and handling. Has anyone every broken components while
exceeding their GVM??
I think if my car had a useable range of 45km, it would put the vehicle into
a whole new level and increase the practicality of it.
Cheers
_________________________________________________________________
15,000 Velocity Points Velocity NAB Credit Card
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fadsfac%2Enet%2Flink%2Easp%3F
cc%3DNAT030%2E23080%2E0%26clk%3D1%26creativeID%3D34301&_t=754983092&_r=email
tagline&_m=EXT
--- End Message ---
