EV Digest 6386
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Bob's help
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) RE: BBB pictures
by "Shawn Waggoner, FLEAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: 3-wheeler driving experiences
by Tom Gocze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: When a controller fails... question
by Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: BBB pictures
by "Matt Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Discovery channel 4 part series
by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: When a controller fails... question
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: BBB pictures
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Disconnects
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) AutoCrossing EVs (was BBB pictures)
by "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: When a controller fails... question
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: BBB pictures
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) RE: Getting juice from a light pole
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: When a controller fails... question
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Disconnects
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: BBB pictures
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: AutoCrossing EVs (was BBB pictures)
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) would charging single cells like this be ok to keep cells in balance?
by Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: BBB Pictures
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: When a controller fails... question
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: 3-wheeler driving experiences
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Disconnects
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: BBB Pictures
by "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Many thanks go out to Bob Rice for giving up his Sunday to sell me
replacement T-125 batteries (at a bargain) for my truck, and helping me
make up new battery cables to replace the burnt ones.
It was great to see a fellow EV'er who has not only the tools to do the
work, but has 3 cars in transition for conversion. I hope I can be a help
to someone else in the future.
The genuine New England Clam chowder was a good topper to the evening.
When the temperature is back over 32 F, I'll get my truck back together.
If you ever need a charge near Philadelphia, stop on in, I have 2 outlets
waiting
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
BB,
We are working on collecting all the photos that were taken at the drag
strip, autocross, road rally and award dinner and posting them in a photo
album on the FLEAA site. They should be up by Wednesday. I'll post the link
when they're up...
Shawn Waggoner
FLEAA
-----Original Message-----
From: David (Battery Boy) Hawkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 3:16 PM
To: EV Discussion List
Subject: Re: BBB pictures
Chip, Darin, Roderick, and All,
I'm bummed that the pictures were taken down, as I enjoyed them (only
noticed one of the Freedom EV though). Could they be put under "BBB
Autocross and Show-N-Shine" or something like that? Sorry for the confusion
regarding the interior pics and the go-cart pic regarding NEDRA. As a
Progressive Redneck(TM), I was just admiring the duct tape use on the
scooter battery and kill button!
Thanks,
BB
>From: Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 08:18:15 -0500
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>
>Thanks BB,
>
>I decided to take the photos off the site.
>
>After reading the discussions people were thinking some of the
>vehicles were racing at the drag race part of the event and a few
>vehicles had some safety things going on that would not pass tech for
>the drags.
>
>The pictures were actually of the Autocross and the other Saturday
>activities not the drag race part.
>
>So I took them down to avoid further confusion.
>
>Chip Gribben
>NEDRA Webmaster
>http://www.nedra.com
>
>From: "BadFishRacing" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 16:57:15 -0500
>
>David,
>
>If you look real close on the rear of the scooter, you can see that her
name
>is 'Hillbilly Delux'. An example of what a trashed free scooter, some
spare
>parts, and $2.99 can do.
>
>Darin
>BadFishRacing
>From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 14:06:28 -0800
>
>Hi Dave, I had not looked at the pictures until now but I will immediately
>forward this to the NEDRA board. Concerning the third picture which is a go
>cart from what I can tell. Go carts are not legal in NHRA or NEDRA racing.
>They did have auto cross races at BBB so it could have been entered there.
I
>am aware that some NHRA member tracks have allowed go carts to run down the
>track. The problem arises in the case of an accident. The NHRA insurance
>therefore would not apply. If a track owner wishes to stick his neck out it
>is his to do so with. NEDRA does not have deep pockets so we follow NHRA
>safety guidelines.
>
>Roderick Wilde
>NEDRA Board Member
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "EV Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 1:18 PM
>Subject: BBB pictures
>
>> All,
>> I was looking at the pictures from the Battery Beach Burnout event on the
>> NEDRA.com website and noticed a couple of things (thanks Chip for putting
>> these up)...
>> BB
>>
>> I'm wondering if these cars were drag raced under NEDRA, with the
traction
>> pack wiring and SB-350 disconnect in the vehicle?
>>
>> http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0014_JPG.htm
>>
>> http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0017_JPG.htm
>>
>> Nice use of the handy man's secret weapon, duct tape!
>>
>> http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0025_JPG.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Osmo,
I had two Gizmos which were a lot of fun to drive. One had moped type
tires and the other one was newer with real tires.
Both ran good and were very nimble. The big issue was that you had to
move the whole vehicle out of the way of a bump, since the spacing
center to center was about 20" between the three wheels. It could
shake the daylights out of you if you hit it at 45 mph.
Of course, the other issue is the a**holes in big dump trucks who
thought it was fun to come after you. Fortunately, if I was in intown
traffic, I could pull away from them very quickly. I had one of the
Gizmos set up with a contactor controller that really took off when
it went to the highest setting.
At this point I would consider doing another, but will continue to
use something with more steel around me for my daily driver.
Tom
www.hotandcold.tv
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hm, the Curtis manual seems to show the KSI wired to the potbox switch
for the 1209, 1221 and 1231 models.
Bill Dennis
Darin - at - metrompg.com wrote:
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Besides, I don't see any benifit to cycling the controller on and off
all
the time.
No, not if as you say it doesn't provide any additional safety in the
event of a controller failure.
Thanks very much for the info.
Darin
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Easy, Rich!
No need to come running down to South Florida with 2X4s ablaze in both
hands! Tech inspection at Moroso did not let any car go down the track
without battery covers in place. Some people took their covers off on
Saturday for the Show-n-Shine event, so that everyone could take these
controversial pictures!
In all seriousness, we do need to pay close attention to these safety
concerns. And I think that all events that are held in the future would
really benefit from more people looking out for these problems. But as far
as this event is concerned, I can assure you that any picture where there's
clearly daylight involved did not occur at the Friday night drag race, so no
reason to blast NEDRA.
Matt Graham
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rich Rudman
> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 2:31 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: BBB pictures
>
> This car should not have been allowed to run.
>
> This is a clear violation of the no HV exposed rule.
>
> All those Yts should have been under a LEXAN cover. The
> disconnect should have been remoted and away from the body of
> the driver.
>
> I have failed tech like this.
>
> Doing this on your own EV.. at your own risk is OK with me.
> On a track or even on a Auto cross, Where side loads my
> exceed fore and Aft loads.. traping cables and Yts is the
> foremost safety concern.
>
> If this was cleared to run down the track ,NEDRA was simply
> not doing thier Job. The local Auto Cross club was clueless.
>
> I woulda thown this car out.
>
> And yea I have gotten away with it too. But not anymore. The
> covers of my Orbs have LEXAN on them. becuase I got spatted
> with molten lead last year.
>
> Holy crap folks... we need to do a better job.
>
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "EV Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 1:18 PM
> Subject: BBB pictures
>
>
> > All,
> > I was looking at the pictures from the Battery Beach
> Burnout event on the
> > NEDRA.com website and noticed a couple of things (thanks
> Chip for putting
> > these up)...
> > BB
> >
> > I'm wondering if these cars were drag raced under NEDRA,
> with the traction
> > pack wiring and SB-350 disconnect in the vehicle?
> >
> > http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0014_JPG.htm
> >
> > http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0017_JPG.htm
> >
> > Nice use of the handy man's secret weapon, duct tape!
> >
> > http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0025_JPG.htm
> >
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
FutureCar
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incredible technologies that will make it all happen.
http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/future-car/about/about.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I understand that controllers can & do fail "on"... Full Monty.
>
> But when a controller's smoke comes out, does it fail within its rated
> amp limit, or does it send full pack juice to the motor?
Hold on to your sausage. It gets real exciting. You have to have many
safety devices in series. First you turn off the key that should open the
contactor.. If that doesn't work put on the brakes. If that doesn't work
you throw the breaker. If that doesn't work throw it in neutral and destroy
the motor. I've come one step from blowing the motor. Not fun. But I did
survive because I had multiple safeties in working order. Lawrence
Rhodes......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't think this car did run down the strip. As I said, if the
photo was taken during the day (as this one was) it was from the show
'n shine, not the drag race.
If it did race down the strip, (I don't think it did) it
would have had to pass NHRA tech inspection. Once it did pass that
tech inspection, and none of the folks on the scene complained about
the car to the officials during the event, then the decision has been
made. It is a done deal.
If you were there at the event, you could have made such a
complaint, but you weren't. "Monday morning umpires" have no say in
the outcome.
For the next event, you should attend so you will be there
to voice these important safety concerns. You will find it is quite
different doing this sort of thing face-to-face with the angry
competitor and the impatient official than it is via a note on the
Internet. It does not make you a popular guy to put someone on the
trailer after they have driven hundreds of miles to race. Tech
inspection is a thankless job. It is your job to tell folks what they
often do not want to hear.
I would have helped with the tech inspection, had NEDRA
invited me to do so, but they did not.
Bill Dube'
At 12:30 PM 2/5/2007, you wrote:
This car should not have been allowed to run.
This is a clear violation of the no HV exposed rule.
All those Yts should have been under a LEXAN cover. The disconnect should
have been remoted and away from the body of the driver.
I have failed tech like this.
Doing this on your own EV.. at your own risk is OK with me.
On a track or even on a Auto cross, Where side loads my exceed fore and Aft
loads.. traping cables and Yts is the foremost safety concern.
If this was cleared to run down the track ,NEDRA was simply not doing thier
Job. The local Auto Cross club was clueless.
I woulda thown this car out.
And yea I have gotten away with it too. But not anymore. The covers of my
Orbs have LEXAN on them. becuase I got spatted with molten lead last year.
Holy crap folks... we need to do a better job.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 1:18 PM
Subject: BBB pictures
> All,
> I was looking at the pictures from the Battery Beach Burnout event on the
> NEDRA.com website and noticed a couple of things (thanks Chip for putting
> these up)...
> BB
>
> I'm wondering if these cars were drag raced under NEDRA, with the traction
> pack wiring and SB-350 disconnect in the vehicle?
>
> http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0014_JPG.htm
>
> http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0017_JPG.htm
>
> Nice use of the handy man's secret weapon, duct tape!
>
> http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0025_JPG.htm
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Feb 4, 2007, at 6:46 PM, Storm Connors wrote:
Judging by the number of occurrences, someone must be marketing a
mount and handle for the Andersons.
Here's where I got mine:
<http://www.evparts.com/shopping/?id=215>
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://www.gdunge.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There were some recommendations and discussions at the 6th EVer around
standardizing show events like this to make it fair and repeatable for
organizations that want to do them. Autocrossing is quickly becoming a
popular activity for EVs (cars, scooters, and go-carts alike) and has a lot
of potential to help put a positive spin on EVs as well as getting them out
in more public forums.
In that spirit, we're in the planning stages of doing our first
Auto/Scooter/Go-Cart Cross at the Power of DC in June. While it doesn't fall
under NEDRA/NHRA, it would probably be a good idea to assume some standard
safety requirements like NEDRA. Researching SCCA, I found this link to an
AutoCross (or SOLO) Handbook.
http://www.teae.org/autocross/TEAE-Autocross-Rules.html
I have sent a feeler to the SCCA to inquire of their interest in perhaps
forming a class for EVs and leveraging their safety rules much the same way
NEDRA and NHRA work. I'd be interested in continuing to work on some
standardization and/or sanctioning if anyone's interested in paticipating,
let me know.
Regards, Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 4:13 PM
Subject: RE: BBB pictures
Easy, Rich!
No need to come running down to South Florida with 2X4s ablaze in both
hands! Tech inspection at Moroso did not let any car go down the track
without battery covers in place. Some people took their covers off on
Saturday for the Show-n-Shine event, so that everyone could take these
controversial pictures!
In all seriousness, we do need to pay close attention to these safety
concerns. And I think that all events that are held in the future would
really benefit from more people looking out for these problems. But as far
as this event is concerned, I can assure you that any picture where
there's
clearly daylight involved did not occur at the Friday night drag race, so
no
reason to blast NEDRA.
Matt Graham
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rich Rudman
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 2:31 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: BBB pictures
This car should not have been allowed to run.
This is a clear violation of the no HV exposed rule.
All those Yts should have been under a LEXAN cover. The
disconnect should have been remoted and away from the body of
the driver.
I have failed tech like this.
Doing this on your own EV.. at your own risk is OK with me.
On a track or even on a Auto cross, Where side loads my
exceed fore and Aft loads.. traping cables and Yts is the
foremost safety concern.
If this was cleared to run down the track ,NEDRA was simply
not doing thier Job. The local Auto Cross club was clueless.
I woulda thown this car out.
And yea I have gotten away with it too. But not anymore. The
covers of my Orbs have LEXAN on them. becuase I got spatted
with molten lead last year.
Holy crap folks... we need to do a better job.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 1:18 PM
Subject: BBB pictures
> All,
> I was looking at the pictures from the Battery Beach
Burnout event on the
> NEDRA.com website and noticed a couple of things (thanks
Chip for putting
> these up)...
> BB
>
> I'm wondering if these cars were drag raced under NEDRA,
with the traction
> pack wiring and SB-350 disconnect in the vehicle?
>
> http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0014_JPG.htm
>
> http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0017_JPG.htm
>
> Nice use of the handy man's secret weapon, duct tape!
>
> http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0025_JPG.htm
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Don't most of us use contactors connected to the ignition switch? Doesn't
> turning the key shut off the contactor at a point before the juice hits
the
> controller?
My contactor failed. You must have more than that. My breaker saved me.
Lawrence Rhodes.........
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is this Rich, "Shut em down" Madman or Rich "Charge em up" Madman?
I seem to remember a certain fellow laying across hundreds of V28's
while they charged, with the safeties removed, in absolute glory.
They all can't be pretty. Besides, Jesse's little fire under the hood
was rather cool. Let em run.
Shawn
PS: The 30 did real good at Moroso.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: BBB pictures
This car should not have been allowed to run.
This is a clear violation of the no HV exposed rule.
All those Yts should have been under a LEXAN cover. The disconnect
should
have been remoted and away from the body of the driver.
I have failed tech like this.
Doing this on your own EV.. at your own risk is OK with me.
On a track or even on a Auto cross, Where side loads my exceed fore and
Aft
loads.. traping cables and Yts is the foremost safety concern.
If this was cleared to run down the track ,NEDRA was simply not doing
thier
Job. The local Auto Cross club was clueless.
I woulda thown this car out.
And yea I have gotten away with it too. But not anymore. The covers of
my
Orbs have LEXAN on them. becuase I got spatted with molten lead last
year.
Holy crap folks... we need to do a better job.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 1:18 PM
Subject: BBB pictures
All,
I was looking at the pictures from the Battery Beach Burnout event on
the
NEDRA.com website and noticed a couple of things (thanks Chip for
putting
these up)...
BB
I'm wondering if these cars were drag raced under NEDRA, with the
traction
pack wiring and SB-350 disconnect in the vehicle?
http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0014_JPG.htm
http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0017_JPG.htm
Nice use of the handy man's secret weapon, duct tape!
http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0025_JPG.htm
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> > I wish my company would pay for my fuel!
> I was planning on metering it and paying for the juice.
Cool. I'm hoping EVs can make it without subsidies!
Randii (who still wishes his company would pay for his fuel!)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: When a controller fails... question
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 14:25:10 -0600 (CST)
I have a 'security' circuit that should be my first line of defense. A
reed-switch sits on one of the main leads to the controller, the magnetic
force of the current closes the reed-switch whenever 200 A or more go
though the cable.
A lead from the brake light goes through the reed switch to activate a
relay whenever the reed switch is closed (> 200 A on the wire) AND the
brake lights come on. The relay will then drop the main contractor.
That sounds like a good system. As an alternative, you could drop the main
contactor eveytime you hit the brakes - that would be simpler and therefore,
a bit more reliable.
Does this relay ( the one that drops the contactor) then latch on - until
you manually reset it ?
Otherwise, when the main contactor is opened, the current will drop, and the
reed relay will open. This might cycle on and off quickly, and, among other
problems, it might destroy your contactor.
Phil
In addition, I have an emergency manual high voltage disconnect that can
be pulled from inside the cabin.
I sure hope, I will never experience a 'full-open' failure with my
controller. But I think I have all my ducks in a row to prevent severe
damage to truck and anybody in front of it.
mm/
_________________________________________________________________
Search for grocery stores. Find gratitude. Turn a simple search into
something more.
http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtagline_gratitude&FORM=WLMTAG
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's Anderson part number...
you order them from Anderson...
Digikey Mouser, Alied, Newark...
Or Rod at EV parts.
Rich Rudman
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Manzanita Micro
360-297-7383,
Cell 360-620-6266
Production shop 360-297-1660
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Weathers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: Disconnects
>
> On Feb 4, 2007, at 6:46 PM, Storm Connors wrote:
>
> > Judging by the number of occurrences, someone must be marketing a
> > mount and handle for the Andersons.
>
> Here's where I got mine:
>
> <http://www.evparts.com/shopping/?id=215>
>
>
> --
> Doug Weathers
> Las Cruces, NM, USA
> http://www.gdunge.com/
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good to hear..
The lions were clearly in thier packing crates, and well insulated.. Drama
can be safe..
It's not the pretty Shawn.. How may Yts and Orbitals have you blown the lead
out of???
a fair number as I recall.
I got lead splattered last year racing a BMer.. on the street.. Battery
gards would have saved the skin some what..
I have gards on for last years Wayland national . And have left them there.
since it's a darn good idea.
But.. we need to not be foolish in public... it matters big time nowdays.
Glad the PFC30 earned it's keep in the dark. The 30s are a pretty good box.
The new 40s are going to be in a LOT of PHEVs..
Madman
Lets be sane, Crazy OK.. but safe.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: BBB pictures
> Is this Rich, "Shut em down" Madman or Rich "Charge em up" Madman?
> I seem to remember a certain fellow laying across hundreds of V28's
> while they charged, with the safeties removed, in absolute glory.
> They all can't be pretty. Besides, Jesse's little fire under the hood
> was rather cool. Let em run.
>
> Shawn
>
> PS: The 30 did real good at Moroso.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Sent: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 2:30 PM
> Subject: Re: BBB pictures
>
> This car should not have been allowed to run.
>
> This is a clear violation of the no HV exposed rule.
>
> All those Yts should have been under a LEXAN cover. The disconnect
> should
> have been remoted and away from the body of the driver.
>
> I have failed tech like this.
>
> Doing this on your own EV.. at your own risk is OK with me.
> On a track or even on a Auto cross, Where side loads my exceed fore and
> Aft
> loads.. traping cables and Yts is the foremost safety concern.
>
> If this was cleared to run down the track ,NEDRA was simply not doing
> thier
> Job. The local Auto Cross club was clueless.
>
> I woulda thown this car out.
>
> And yea I have gotten away with it too. But not anymore. The covers of
> my
> Orbs have LEXAN on them. becuase I got spatted with molten lead last
> year.
>
> Holy crap folks... we need to do a better job.
>
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "EV Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 1:18 PM
> Subject: BBB pictures
>
>
> > All,
> > I was looking at the pictures from the Battery Beach Burnout event on
> the
> > NEDRA.com website and noticed a couple of things (thanks Chip for
> putting
> > these up)...
> > BB
> >
> > I'm wondering if these cars were drag raced under NEDRA, with the
> traction
> > pack wiring and SB-350 disconnect in the vehicle?
> >
> > http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0014_JPG.htm
> >
> > http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0017_JPG.htm
> >
> > Nice use of the handy man's secret weapon, duct tape!
> >
> > http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0025_JPG.htm
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
> security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
> across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For about 8 years Manzanita Micro,
Was Manzanita Micro Timing systems
We did AutoCross and Road Race timing systems.
That was in the mid to late 80s and early Ninties..
Yea I highly recomend that we use SCCA rules backed with NEDRA rules as to
battery hold downs and basic EV safety.
And police our selves...
I am not sure what class a 1200 amp 8 incher powered Fiesta would be in, But
as a Small sedan driver in the 80s with the stock 1600, I WOULD fear Goldie,
and the suspension mods that I have done. D mod comes to mind... And that's
a rather nasty run group.
Then again.. who wants to mess with Goldie.. on a track... 400 lbs of
torque.. and 1800 lbs.
Anyone who has seen Goldie with the Fun knob full up knows she can put on a
good show in a parking lot. I live for it!!
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 2:10 PM
Subject: AutoCrossing EVs (was BBB pictures)
> There were some recommendations and discussions at the 6th EVer around
> standardizing show events like this to make it fair and repeatable for
> organizations that want to do them. Autocrossing is quickly becoming a
> popular activity for EVs (cars, scooters, and go-carts alike) and has a
lot
> of potential to help put a positive spin on EVs as well as getting them
out
> in more public forums.
>
> In that spirit, we're in the planning stages of doing our first
> Auto/Scooter/Go-Cart Cross at the Power of DC in June. While it doesn't
fall
> under NEDRA/NHRA, it would probably be a good idea to assume some standard
> safety requirements like NEDRA. Researching SCCA, I found this link to an
> AutoCross (or SOLO) Handbook.
> http://www.teae.org/autocross/TEAE-Autocross-Rules.html
>
> I have sent a feeler to the SCCA to inquire of their interest in perhaps
> forming a class for EVs and leveraging their safety rules much the same
way
> NEDRA and NHRA work. I'd be interested in continuing to work on some
> standardization and/or sanctioning if anyone's interested in paticipating,
> let me know.
>
> Regards, Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matt Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 4:13 PM
> Subject: RE: BBB pictures
>
>
> > Easy, Rich!
> >
> > No need to come running down to South Florida with 2X4s ablaze in both
> > hands! Tech inspection at Moroso did not let any car go down the track
> > without battery covers in place. Some people took their covers off on
> > Saturday for the Show-n-Shine event, so that everyone could take these
> > controversial pictures!
> >
> > In all seriousness, we do need to pay close attention to these safety
> > concerns. And I think that all events that are held in the future would
> > really benefit from more people looking out for these problems. But as
far
> > as this event is concerned, I can assure you that any picture where
> > there's
> > clearly daylight involved did not occur at the Friday night drag race,
so
> > no
> > reason to blast NEDRA.
> >
> > Matt Graham
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rich Rudman
> >> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 2:31 PM
> >> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >> Subject: Re: BBB pictures
> >>
> >> This car should not have been allowed to run.
> >>
> >> This is a clear violation of the no HV exposed rule.
> >>
> >> All those Yts should have been under a LEXAN cover. The
> >> disconnect should have been remoted and away from the body of
> >> the driver.
> >>
> >> I have failed tech like this.
> >>
> >> Doing this on your own EV.. at your own risk is OK with me.
> >> On a track or even on a Auto cross, Where side loads my
> >> exceed fore and Aft loads.. traping cables and Yts is the
> >> foremost safety concern.
> >>
> >> If this was cleared to run down the track ,NEDRA was simply
> >> not doing thier Job. The local Auto Cross club was clueless.
> >>
> >> I woulda thown this car out.
> >>
> >> And yea I have gotten away with it too. But not anymore. The
> >> covers of my Orbs have LEXAN on them. becuase I got spatted
> >> with molten lead last year.
> >>
> >> Holy crap folks... we need to do a better job.
> >>
> >> Rich Rudman
> >> Manzanita Micro
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> To: "EV Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> >> Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 1:18 PM
> >> Subject: BBB pictures
> >>
> >>
> >> > All,
> >> > I was looking at the pictures from the Battery Beach
> >> Burnout event on the
> >> > NEDRA.com website and noticed a couple of things (thanks
> >> Chip for putting
> >> > these up)...
> >> > BB
> >> >
> >> > I'm wondering if these cars were drag raced under NEDRA,
> >> with the traction
> >> > pack wiring and SB-350 disconnect in the vehicle?
> >> >
> >> > http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0014_JPG.htm
> >> >
> >> > http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0017_JPG.htm
> >> >
> >> > Nice use of the handy man's secret weapon, duct tape!
> >> >
> >> > http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0025_JPG.htm
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
Say you have a 2S1P pack:
- | | + - | | +
You can charge them by wiring a single cell charger to each cell without having
to take apart the pack.
If you have a say, 2S2P pack, where the cells are connected like this:
a---(cell 1)++++c-----(cell 2)++++b
a---(cell 1)++++c-----(cell 2)++++b
where a and b are connected together, but not c, can you still charge each cell
seperately with a single cell charger simultaneously? (say, using four chargers
that are not grounded).
I'm asking because this seems like a cheap and simple, brute force way to
balance charge the pack. Thanks!
- Tony
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi BB,
The pictures Katie took were great. Hopefully the Florida EAA will
will put them on their site.
Here are the links to her pictures for those who want to see them.
http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/
http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/EVporsche.mov
But this message from Rich, today, is why I think I will leave them
off the NEDRA site for now.
"This car should not have been allowed to run.
This is a clear violation of the no HV exposed rule.
All those Yts should have been under a LEXAN cover. The disconnect
should
have been remoted and away from the body of the driver.
I have failed tech like this.
Doing this on your own EV.. at your own risk is OK with me.
On a track or even on a Auto cross, Where side loads my exceed fore
and Aft
loads.. traping cables and Yts is the foremost safety concern.
If this was cleared to run down the track ,NEDRA was simply not doing
thier
Job. The local Auto Cross club was clueless.
I woulda thown this car out.
And yea I have gotten away with it too. But not anymore. The covers
of my
Orbs have LEXAN on them. becuase I got spatted with molten lead last
year.
Holy crap folks... we need to do a better job.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro"
Even if I label the link "From the Autocross Event" people will just
glaze right over that and think they are from the NEDRA race. So to
be on the safe side and to prevent further messages like Rich's I'm
going to leave the pictures off.
I had a feeling the pics weren't quite related to the NEDRA portion
of the BBB but I thought I would put them up because EV Listers
wanted to see some pics from the event.
Chip
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
On Feb 5, 2007, at 3:37 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: February 5, 2007 3:16:11 PM EST
To: "EV Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: BBB pictures
Chip, Darin, Roderick, and All,
I'm bummed that the pictures were taken down, as I enjoyed them (only
noticed one of the Freedom EV though). Could they be put under "BBB
Autocross and Show-N-Shine" or something like that? Sorry for the
confusion
regarding the interior pics and the go-cart pic regarding NEDRA. As a
Progressive Redneck(TM), I was just admiring the duct tape use on the
scooter battery and kill button!
Thanks,
BB
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Feb 5, 2007, at 5:32 AM, Darin - at - metrompg.com wrote:
The plan is to activate the pack negative contactor through the
ignition key circuit, and pack positive contactor with the throttle
microswitch. Now I guess it's time to also plan a physical
disconnect.
It sounds like you already have the safety shut-off in mind. Releasing
the throttle will cut controller power by cutting the positive
contactor. You just need to use a contactor that is rated for your
system voltage and maximum current. That would be (roughly) a contactor
rated to break your battery short circuit current at 1/2 your pack
voltage (in reality, battery voltage will be below 1/2 nominal if you
get close to short circuit current) and rated for full pack voltage.
For many EVers the Albright SW200 does the job well.
With what you have proposed runaway is not possible if your foot is off
the throttle and will end with your first instinct (I hope it is your
first) to lift your right foot if you start going to fast. Your
"ignition" switch will cut the other contactor, giving you 2 ways to
shut the controller down.
Related: the Curtis has a "Key Switch Input" (KSI) that turns on/off
the controller logic. If/when the controller fails, will removing the
voltage from KSI shut down a runaway controller?
It may or may not - I would bet on not! It would clear a logic failure
but not a shorted FET failure. Try to arrange it so that KSI if off
when the vehicle is off. This shuts down the controller logic when the
vehicle is not occupied.
IE is there any benefit (or drawback) to connecting KSI to the
throttle microswitch so it's effectively OFF each time the go pedal is
released?
I don't believe its helpful. I doubt it will do any harm either.
Remember that KSI is pack voltage and most contactor coils are run from
the vehicle 12v system (the systems should be kept electrically
isolated from each other.) Use contactors to shut power down for safety
(as you proposed.) Have fuses and/or breakers as back-up, mostly for
other types of failures (ones that don't give you full power but still
try to melt stuff down and potentially cause fires.)
Oh, one last thought about controller wiring. Have you considered a
method to precharge the controller? This in not included as a part of
Curtis controllers but should be used to reduce the chance of failure
(they show it as optional in their wiring diagrams.) You really
shouldn't just apply pack voltage to a controller that is completely
off. Its hard on your contactor(s) (a lot of inrush current.) Its also
hard on the controller input capacitors (if they fail the rest of the
controller is likely to follow.)
Paul "neon" G.
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
George Orwell, "1984"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Osmo and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Osmo S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: 3-wheeler driving experiences
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 19:52:52 +0200
>I´d like hear comments from those who have driven a
>3-wheeler: how does it differ from ordinary 4-wheeler
>experience? I´m interested especially in a 2f1r. For
>example, I´d imagine the fact that there are three
wheel
>tracks or lines(?) instead of two may be a downside
>sometimes - in winter conditions when the two main tracks
>are melted but there is ice or snow in the middle of
>them. Or driving on a bumpy road when you have three
>tracks to "keep in mind"?
While I have no experience in snow, I do in heavy
rain, ect, over 10 yrs. I've had no problems here in Fla and
live on a dirt, very bumpy private road along with other
public ones and had no problems going forward. The rear
wheel and the road center has also had few problems, alway
being able to pick good course, easy when you are 5' wide
in a 12' lane!!
However in reverse it gets weird judging turns though
I think that might be an optical illusion caused by the
sides curving in.
Before you go farther, google Robert Q Riley and under
downloads, read his design articles on 3 wheel cars as they
can be the best handling when designed right or dangerous
when designed wrong. You may want to join the vortex3wheeler
list which is for all 3wheelers and the best one online.
Jerry Dycus
>thanks,
>Osmo
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All good ideas, just keep in mind that you can't relay on the disconnect
handle to shut down a Big short or a controller run a way. the contacts are
too close and will flash over at anything above about 96 volts.
But for a safety disconnect or service shut down EXelent!
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dube" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: Disconnects
> Installing a big Anderson connector between the pack and the rest of
> the vehicle is a terrific idea. I highly recommend it. If you install
> one of those lever style handles to make it easy to take apart and
> re-connect, that is even better. If you put some sort of cable or
> linkage that allows you to disconnect the pack from the driver's
> seat, that is even better yet.
>
> When you are working on the car, it is really helpful to be able to
> easily "pull the plug" on the traction pack so all the rest of the
> wiring is guaranteed to be dead.
>
> Bill Dube'
>
> At 06:46 PM 2/4/2007, you wrote:
> >In 85679, Matt Kensington asked about disconnects. The pictures from
> >the BBB show a number of instances of the Anderson plugs being
> >used,. See http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0014_JPG.htm for an
> >example. Judging by the number of occurrences, someone must be
> >marketing a mount and handle for the Andersons.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
in picture 17 there is a funac display ..... what is its fuction ? can you
get one like that to display motor volts , amprage pack voltage and state of
charge ???
----- Original Message -----
From: Chip Gribben<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: BBB Pictures
Hi BB,
The pictures Katie took were great. Hopefully the Florida EAA will
will put them on their site.
Here are the links to her pictures for those who want to see them.
http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/<http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/>
http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/EVporsche.mov<http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/EVporsche.mov>
But this message from Rich, today, is why I think I will leave them
off the NEDRA site for now.
"This car should not have been allowed to run.
This is a clear violation of the no HV exposed rule.
All those Yts should have been under a LEXAN cover. The disconnect
should
have been remoted and away from the body of the driver.
I have failed tech like this.
Doing this on your own EV.. at your own risk is OK with me.
On a track or even on a Auto cross, Where side loads my exceed fore
and Aft
loads.. traping cables and Yts is the foremost safety concern.
If this was cleared to run down the track ,NEDRA was simply not doing
thier
Job. The local Auto Cross club was clueless.
I woulda thown this car out.
And yea I have gotten away with it too. But not anymore. The covers
of my
Orbs have LEXAN on them. becuase I got spatted with molten lead last
year.
Holy crap folks... we need to do a better job.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro"
Even if I label the link "From the Autocross Event" people will just
glaze right over that and think they are from the NEDRA race. So to
be on the safe side and to prevent further messages like Rich's I'm
going to leave the pictures off.
I had a feeling the pics weren't quite related to the NEDRA portion
of the BBB but I thought I would put them up because EV Listers
wanted to see some pics from the event.
Chip
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com<http://www.nedra.com/>
On Feb 5, 2007, at 3:37 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
> From: "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]>>
> Date: February 5, 2007 3:16:11 PM EST
> To: "EV Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>>
> Subject: Re: BBB pictures
>
>
> Chip, Darin, Roderick, and All,
> I'm bummed that the pictures were taken down, as I enjoyed them (only
> noticed one of the Freedom EV though). Could they be put under "BBB
> Autocross and Show-N-Shine" or something like that? Sorry for the
> confusion
> regarding the interior pics and the go-cart pic regarding NEDRA. As a
> Progressive Redneck(TM), I was just admiring the duct tape use on the
> scooter battery and kill button!
> Thanks,
> BB
--- End Message ---
