EV Digest 6410
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Cost to drive a EV
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: A123 pictures
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: A/C Motor voltage?
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
by "Dave Wilker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
by "Dave Wilker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: A/C Motor voltage?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Speaking of Hybrids
by thomas ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Looking for a message in the archive and I can't find it
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Why I was looking for the 12 V / 5 A "isolated" charger for AGMs
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Soneil Chargers
by Darryl McMahon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: EVAutoX.com Launched to Serve EV AutoCross Enthusiasts
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Vector chargers
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Vacuum pump running constantly
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Personal Electric Transport
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Cost to drive a EV
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Cost to drive a EV
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) White Zombie History
by "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Soneil Chargers
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Battery Beach Burnout 07!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Left Coast Conversions... Reverend Gadget...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) Re: Cost to drive a EV
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Cost to drive a EV
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Vacuum pump running constantly
by "mike young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Chain Noise Re: Personal Electric Transport
by "Kip C. Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: Chain Noise Re: Personal Electric Transport
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Hi Tim,
The kind of EV has a simple answer: See the EV Album.
My main vehicle is entry 694:
http://evalbum.com/694
You will find over 1000 different vehicles with an extensive
description of components and pictures in there.
Regarding costs:
My battery pack costed $2200 and I hope it will last 400 full cycles,
since my range is over 60 miles, this translates into about 25,000 mi
or about $0.09 per mile for battery investment.
(it will be more expensive in future, due to lead price increase)
Cost to operate is the cost of electricity.
This is influenced by the charger type used and time of recharge if
you are on TOU (Time Of Use) meter.
My electricity is only $0.058 at night (between midnight and 7 AM)
but the amount of electricity for my vehicle pushed me over the baseline
for my residential use, so the cost per kWh goes up for the portion
over the baseline.
My truck gets about 1 mile per 1/2 kWh including charging losses and
with an approximate 10c per kWh average including the higher rates
above baseline, I get about $0.05 per mile in "fuel" cost.
Total $0.14 per mile.
Using a lighter vehicle and Golf Cart batteries, you can get a
lower cost per mile.
It certainly is lower than a gas gulper, if you figure the maintenance
costs into it and compare the "fuel" costs, not to mention figuring
the cost of pollution into the gas car operation....
Success!
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tim Gamber
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 9:25 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Cost to drive a EV
Hey everyone just wanted to know what kind of EV your driving, what
components you used, and how much on average it cost for you to run your EV
per a certain distance including battery replacement?
_________________________________________________________________
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=43.658648~-79.383962&style=r&lvl=1
5&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=3702663&cid=7ABE80D1746919B4!1329
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I would be careful about soldering the tabs. The cells don't take
well to the heat that will transfer from the tabs to the cells. It
could shorten their life.
That is what I was told when I sent a pack to GoWheels for them to
build. I had taken a DeWalt pack apart to build something with and
sent it to Jay to finish up.
Chip
On Feb 13, 2007, at 1:01 AM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: Ray Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: February 12, 2007 9:49:10 PM EST
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: A123 pictures
I want to build the pack in flats of 4x6 cells. It give each flat
about 13.2 volts, 12 volts under load, with 6 buddies per cell. 10
flats will give me 132 volts 13.8AH with up to 600 amps. Pack
weight about 50 lbs.
It looks like the vented pos end can create some difficulty. If
I keep as many of the Dewalt tabs intact at the pos end, it should
not be too difficult to spot weld or solder to the case on the neg
end. I am not sure what kind of alloy was used by Dewalt for their
tabs. The tabs seem to take solder if they are sanded.
Thanks for your suggestions.
EZESport
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At 10:09 PM 12/02/07 -0500, Mike G. wrote:
Hi All, I'm back for a little while. I started a new position at work and it
is keeping me busy.
But now to the point. I have always wanted to use an A/C motor in my
conversion and it appears as though I may be able to do so with some help
from a new contact at the motor controllers design facility.
He mentioned to me to use an 80 volt controller with a lower voltage motor
to help with the bemf issues.
My question: If I use a 36 volt A/C motor on an 80 volt invertor do you
think I could damage the motor?
Also: How will the torque output of the motor be affected with the different
voltage?
I realize the voltages are unusual but they are what is available to me.
Any input is welcome.
G'day Mike, and All
Mike,
A/C as in Aircon or are you intending an AC traction system?
Assuming that you are talking AC drive, as long as the controller is able
to be spec'd for the motor, then it will be capable of whatever the motor
is capable of. The capabilities of an AC motor are usually stated as only
one data-point along the capability line of the motor.
To illustrate this, I have recently set up for a customer an AC motor that
was able to be operated at 200-220V or 380-415V and 50Hz or 60Hz, and
0.75kW. "mains" 3-phase here is 415V, 50Hz. I set up the motor for 200-220V
connections, and told the drive what it is, then programmed the drive for a
maximum frequency of 120Hz, at which speed it will be capable of developing
around 1.5kW.
So, the advantage of using a lower voltage motor is that you are able to
run it at higher frequencies (to run at double the frequency, you need
double the voltage, the current is the same so the kW are doubled). Torque
is a function of amps, so the torque will be whatever amps the motor is
capable of, the horsepower dependant on the Hz you can run it to.
Hope this helps
Regards
[Technik] James
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One more advantage of drum over disk: Less drag
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dymaxion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
Drum brakes are nonlinear -- each additional unit of pedal force produces
more braking force than before. This makes it hard to hold drum brakes
right at max braking, they'll tend to suddenly lock and skid. Disk brakes
have proportional force, pedal force in is proportional to braking force,
therefore it is alot easier to consistently brake hard without skidding
with disk brakes. They also shed water and heat better than drum brakes.
I think the only ways you can argue drum brakes are better are:
* Drum brakes take less pedal effort
* It takes less force to do a parking brake with a drum brake
----- Original Message ----
From: Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 6:50:43 PM
Subject: Re: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
...
Still, someone correct me if I'm wrong. but it seems to me that until you
experience brake fade, drum brakes will like provide more stopping power
per pedal effort on un-assisted brakes (due to the self-actuating
feature).
I pretty sure that sports cars went to disc brakes (even un-assisted disc
brakes) because racing involves LOTS of slowing down and speeding up.
The kind of driving that is NOT typical for most EV commuters. I'm
thinking that drum brakes might actually be better than discs in a
commuter type EV.
____________________________________________________________________________________
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Then your foot would go to the floor when you stepped on the brake
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message -----
From: "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
to elimnate drag on disc brakes what if one put a small spring between
the 2 discs ?
----- Original Message -----
From: Lee Hart<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
From: Peter VanDerWal
>...it seems to me that until you experience brake fade, drum brakes will
> provide more stopping power per pedal effort on un-assisted brakes
> (due to the self-actuating feature).
>
> ...sports cars went to disc brakes (even un-assisted disc brakes)
because
> racing involves LOTS of slowing down... This kind of driving is NOT
typical
> for most EV commuters. I'm thinking that drum brakes might actually be
> better than discs in a commuter type EV.
I agree. Drums don't require power assist, which saves power and weight.
They are also easier to adjust so they don't drag.
If an EV has regenerative braking, the quality of the regular friction
brakes are much less important. You're more likely to use regen down a
long hill.
One area where disks still excel is in wet braking. Drum brakes can fade
badly if they get wet. This can be alleviated somewhat with the proper
choice of brake linings.
--
Lee Hart
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On 12 Feb 2007 at 22:09, MG wrote:
> I have always wanted to use an A/C
> motor in my conversion
An air conditioning motor? Why?
Or do you mean an AC motor (without the slash), as in "alternating current"?
> If I use a 36 volt A/C motor on an 80 volt invertor do you think I
> could damage the motor?
Assuming you are talking about an alternating current motor ... the
Solectria / Brusa motors have been used on a wide range of inverter input
voltages. I suspect that the situation is similar to that in DC motors -
unless you approach the insulation's breakdown voltage, the issues of
concern are current and heat buildup. But I'm not an engineer; others will
probably have better advice for you. (I'm better at such advice as "use
proper terminology so people understand you. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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I don't think you necessarily need to use carbon fibre
just because you are using epoxy. Steel or aluminium
should work too as long as you grind the epoxy into
clean abraded metal.
One other thing which may be worth doing with bonded
axles is trying to limit the stress raiser caused by
the step in thickness at the join of the two parts.
A nice smooth fillet and grinding the outer tube at
the end should help this.
You could also overlap some tapered layers of glass or
carbon fibre. Glass fibre is much easier to work with,
carbon fibre doesn't like curves. Glass has lower
fatigue strength but I don't think this is an issue in
this application because a crack in the GRP layer
would just run out to the end of the GRP, it won't
pass from the GRP into the metal/carbon shaft.
Tom Ward
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From: thomas ward
> >Lee,
> >Have you considered epoxy bonding the tubular axles
> to
> >the sleeved joints Roland was talking about (or
> even
> >brazing) rather than welding?
>
> It's interesting that you mentioned that! I just
> read a paper on Amory Lovins' "Revolution" SUV. It's
> intended to be a physical realization of the
> hypercar concept he's been promoting for many years
> (how to build ultralight, ultrastrong,
> ultraefficient cars).
>
> The "Revolution" uses carbon fiber composite half
> shafts. They epoxy bond the metal ends with the CV
> joints onto a carbon fiber tube. Now, I doubt
> they've tested this in real life (the "Revolution"
> is just a show car). But then I found that race cars
> have successfully used this same technique to make
> suspension arms and other high stress parts.
>
> This could be an ideal opportunity to try it. The
> stress on the axle is pure torque; no suspension
> loading or flexing. No transmission, clutch or
> flywheel; so shock loads should be low. Welding
> concentrates all the load in one small area. Bonding
> spreads the load over a very large area. Even if the
> epoxy bond is 1/10th the strength of a weld, it has
> far more than 10 times the area.
>
> Plus, bonding does not require heating the axle,
> altering its heat treatment. Brazing has many of the
> same advantages, but does require heating (though to
> lower temperatures than welding).
> --
> Lee Hart
>
>
___________________________________________________________
New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at
the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes.
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I am looking for the message that Lee wrote describing his battery shunts. It
is supposed to be #31518 something around January 2005. Can someone re-post it?
I searched on all of Lee's messages in Jan 05, all messages with "battery
regulator", "battery shunt", etc. But, I could not find that one with the
detailed explination of how it works.
Thanks,
Steve
---------------------------------
Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people
who know.
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I have the same issue as everyone else with trying to get a good finish charge
on my AGM pack. Since I am using a "cheap" BC-20, I have to turn it way down
to avoid overcharging them. But, then, they aren't charged fully.
If I individually charge them, my 96 V pack, after a full charge and a few
hours of rest to cool down is 104.8 V. When I charge them with the BC-20, set
for 104.5 V (somewhere around there, it's hard to dial in accurately), I end up
somewhere around 102.5 V. Severely undercharged. If I turn it up, I'm afraid
it will damage the AGMs. They are well balanced on charge and discharge -
within +/- .05 V.
So, right now, I use the BC-20 to get to around 102 and then individually
charge them with a 2 A trickle charge to get to 104.8 V. It takes way too
long, and I can only do 1 at a time. It takes me 3 days to change the whole
pack.
I thought about putting Lee's shunt regulators on them and turning up the
BC-20 a little. Will that really protect them from overcharge?
I also thought about using 8 individual chargers with 8 isolation
transformers. That is going to cost about $350 - $400 to do it right. I'm not
sure it's worth the headache of putting al that together.
A different charger? ... But won't it have the same issue?
Side note ...
Can someone tell me what a fully charged Deka Group 24 AGM batt is supposed
to be, and what the values are for 50% and 80% discharge (not under load, or
hot, resting after an hour or so)? I believe the following is true, but I need
confirmation.
Fully charged = 13.10 V
50 % ~~12.8 V
80% ~~12.2 V
That was based on my experience that I got 1/2 range with a 102.5 V pack and
started severely slowing down when the voltage dropped to 97 - 98 V. I nearly
had to push the car (but only about .25 mile in a residential neighborhood)
when the loaded voltage went down to 12 V / batt.
Anyway, it works out like this with my very small battery pack ...
104.8 - safely gets me about 4-5 miles
102.5 - gets me about 2.5 - 3 miles
100 - gets me aboit 1/2 mile and then I have to coast home in 1st gear.
Just by chance, take my pack voltage after a rest, subtract 100, and that's
the range. Just happened to work out that way with this particular small
battery pack and small car. I only need 4 miles, but 3.5 and I'm pushing the
car ... which is very likely at this point. I should be able to get at least 6
miles out of those batts, even though they are pretty old.
Suggestions?
Steve
---------------------------------
Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited.
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David, well I guess we could debate what "shutting off" means. The
(green) LED does stay on.
However, my Kill-a-Watt P3 says the 12 chargers combined on my 914 are
drawing 0 (zero) watts for many minutes at a time, once the batteries
are charged. (It's likely longer than that, but watching a KaW reading
000 is less exciting than watching the grass grow). My UPM100 meter
indicates that no power is flowing for much of the time the chargers are
plugged in.
Per the 1212SR spec sheet at:
http://www.soneil.com/Completesets/1212SR(rev09).14-Sep-04.pdf,
"At upper cut-off voltage, the charger shuts off complete (zero
current)... When the battery voltage falls (due to internal losses)
below 13.8 volts, the charger turns ON..."
Regarding Tim Gamber's question on ganging the chargers to one or two
plugs, check out my power-bar set up on the Porsche 914.
http://www.econogics.com/Soneil/son914-1.jpg
(to the left of the top bank of chargers - this bar has 12 outlets)
http://www.econogics.com/Soneil/son914-3.jpg
(closer view)
Note the UPM meter is reading 000 watts (2nd line on display), connected
to AC, and all the green LEDs are lit.
Darryl
==============================
David Roden wrote:
(my earlier comment)
> > The chargers do shut off, and then monitor the battery voltage. When
> > the voltage sinks down to a set-point (for example, on the 1212SR,
it is 13.8
> > volts). When the battery drops to this voltage, the charger turns
on again
> > until the battery reaches 14.4 volts.
(David's text begins here)
I wouldn't call this "shutting off." This sounds like the behavior of the
inexpensive cycle-dropping chargers you get at the auto stores. Such a
charger should not be left connected to the battery.
--
Darryl McMahon
It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will?
The Emperor's New Hydrogen Economy (now in print and eBook)
http://www.econogics.com/TENHE/
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This is great stuff.
What Shawn and Mike are doing couldn't happen at a better time. The
EV Challenge, which has been held in the Carolinas for several years
now, has been in limbo since it's organizer, Ralph Goodwin passed on
last year. Ralph had done a great job with the EV Challenge which
brought in up to 20 or more vehicles racing per year and major
sponsorship from the local utility there.
Also, since Nancy Hazard resigned from the Tour de Sol last year the
event has been in limbo. Ollie Perry who is a member of the Eastern
Electric Vehicle Association in Pennsylvannia is organizing a
substitute EVent planned for June 9 to fill the void left by the Tour
de Sol.
So there is a need for a group to come along start an AutoCross
organization. The 2006 Battery Beach Burnout was a blast. Charles let
me run his RAV-4 in it several times. And this past autocross at the
2007 Battery Beach Burnout was a success thanks to Shawn, Matt and
Lowell and the gang from the Florida EAA.
Mike Harvey and his wife Tracey are hard at work planning an
Autocross for the upcoming NEDRA Power of DC in June to go with the
NEDRA drag racing event June 3. Our preliminary plans are to run the
Autocross Saturday June 2 and the NEDRA drag race June 3. This will
take place in the Frederick-Hagerstown area of Maryland.
So this is an exciting time for an organization to serve AutoCross
Enthusiasts. I imagine we will continue to have both a NEDRA and
EVAutoX event held at the same venue in years to come.
I'm sure Shawn and Mike will be able to pull off some successful
AutoCross EVents
Chip Gribben
NEDRA
http://www.nedra.com
On Feb 12, 2007, at 12:31 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: "Shawn Waggoner, FLEAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: February 12, 2007 1:19:13 AM EST
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: EVAutoX.com Launched to Serve EV AutoCross Enthusiasts
Hi Everyone,
Following the huge success of the autocross event at the recent
Battery
Beach Burnout hosted by the Florida Electric Auto Association in
Jupiter,
Florida this past January, several enthusiasts have formed a special
interest group for EV Autocross Enthusiast everywhere.
EVAutoX is a group of Electric Vehicle (EV) enthusiasts, racers, and
professionals dedicated to the promotion of Electric Vehicle Autocross
racing activities around the world.
The mission of EVAutox is to provide a public forum via appropriate
media
for the collaboration required to successfully promote and manage safe
practices for EV Autocross. The objectives of EVAutox are to:
- provide framework for the development of necessary documentation
and tools
that help promote Autocross in the EV community.
- establish and document related standards and practices for EV
Autocross
racing activities
- provide a framework for repeatable event hosting within the EV
community
- establish relationships with appropriate organizations who can help
further the promotion of EV Autocross in order to incorporate safety
guidelines and standards in additional Autocross venues outside of
the EV
community
Our goal is to have interested people from around the community
discuss
issues in the forum and present these ideas in the WIKI as a
guideline for
the community at large.
The website (http://www.EVAutoX.com) is open to everyone and
features News
about the world of EV Autocross, a User Forum to discuss topics
related to
EV Autocross and Collaboration Tools (Wiki) for the development of
documentation for public use in coordinating EV AutoXevents.
The EVAutoX group and website are co-sponsored by Suncoast Electric
Vehicle
Outfitters (www.suncoast.net) and Harvey Coachworks and EV
(www.hevimotors.com)
Thanks,
Shawn Waggoner,
Suncoast EV Outfitter/FLEAA
Mike Harvey
Harvey Coachworks and EV
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A friend asked me what I thought of vector chargers, and I need a new
charger for manually chargeing 1 AGM at a go. I thought I would get the
lists opinion.
like these
http://www.battery-rechargeable-charger.com/auto-vector-car-battery-charger-products.html
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One more thing, although rare. If the brake pedal doesn't come all the
way up, the little valve in the booster won't close all the way and a
small vacum leak will exist.
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I pulled up next to a custom cycle at a stop-light and, because of this
thread, checked out it's drive system. It was driven by a toothed belt
that seemed only to be 1" wide. Considering this thing had a 10" wide
back tire and was very load and stinky, It seemed undersized. I will
definitely consider such a belt.
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Tim Gamber writes:
>
> Hey everyone just wanted to know what kind of EV your driving, what
> components you used, and how much on average it cost for you to run your EV
> per a certain distance including battery replacement?
Tim,
My 1993 Geo Prizm has a 156v pack of Optima Yellow Tops, 26 batteries
configured as 13 buddy pairs. The controller is a Zilla Z1k, the
charger is a PFC-20. There are Rudman Regulators on each battery
pair, with the Regbus connected to all regulators and back to the
charger.
I typically drive 35 miles a day during the week, and about 10-15
miles per day on the weekends. It costs about $15 per month for
electricity for the Prizm. I only have to pay about half of this
because my employer allows me to recharge at work, but then I buy
three dozen donuts once a month as a "thanks".
Battery replacement costs in the future are unknown. At the current
prices this could be about $3500.
Other 'expendables' include tires, brake pads, transmission oil,
etc. The list is fairly short due to the lack of an ICE.
Note that I consider replacement cost for the batteries as one of the
vehicle's 'expendables' and not part of the 'fuel' cost. Replacement
cost does figure into the cost of ownership though (just as would any
other part that wears out over time). This viewpoint was nailed home
recently when a friend of mine had to replace the fuel pump in his
diesel VW Passat, and it cost him about $2400!
Ralph
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Some older motorcycles use twin leading-shoe designs so that both shoes "self
actuate". Still not as good as discs IMO.
One way to minimize drag is to fit the pads by grinding, sanding, etc. so that
they're a slip-fit in the caliper. I've seen new pads so tight that you
couldn't move them by hand, yet hydraulic force will move them easily.
----- Original Message ----
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 11:21:49 PM
Subject: Re: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
From: FRED JEANETTE MERTENS
> To eliminate drag on disc brakes, what if one put a small spring between
> the 2 discs?
You mean between the two pads?
This could help, but there are a number of problems. Typically, you have the
rotor, a free-floating caliper, and two pads. A single hydraulic cylinder
pushes one of the pads against one side of the rotor. The pressure from that
pad against the rotor makes the free-floating caliper slide in the opposite
direction, which presses the opposite pad against the other side of the rotor.
When you release the brake, the o-ring in the hydraulic cylinder is supposed to
pull back the piston (and its pad) from one side of the rotor. But often, this
o-ring is too weak; it pulls back to relieve the pressure, but the pad still
drags lightly on the rotor.
Meanwhile, the caliper is supposed to slide back to its free position. But
often, the pins that it slides on are dirty or rusty, and bind. So the caliper
continues to drag lightly on the other side of the disk, too.
Because the pressure is high, the movement of the pads is very small. Even if
the pads do pull back, there is very little clearance between pad and rotor. As
the rotor wears, it gets out of round. So it is common for runout and wobble in
the rotor to cause further binding.
--
Lee Hart
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast
with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
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Ralph,
You said you typically drive 35 miles a day. What is the cars
maximum range with the yellow tops? How do you switch between the buddy
pairs or are they in parallel all the time?
Jody
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ralph Merwin
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 8:41
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Cost to drive a EV
Tim Gamber writes:
>
> Hey everyone just wanted to know what kind of EV your driving, what
> components you used, and how much on average it cost for you to run
> your EV per a certain distance including battery replacement?
Tim,
My 1993 Geo Prizm has a 156v pack of Optima Yellow Tops, 26 batteries
configured as 13 buddy pairs. The controller is a Zilla Z1k, the
charger is a PFC-20. There are Rudman Regulators on each battery pair,
with the Regbus connected to all regulators and back to the charger.
I typically drive 35 miles a day during the week, and about 10-15 miles
per day on the weekends. It costs about $15 per month for electricity
for the Prizm. I only have to pay about half of this because my
employer allows me to recharge at work, but then I buy three dozen
donuts once a month as a "thanks".
Battery replacement costs in the future are unknown. At the current
prices this could be about $3500.
Other 'expendables' include tires, brake pads, transmission oil, etc.
The list is fairly short due to the lack of an ICE.
Note that I consider replacement cost for the batteries as one of the
vehicle's 'expendables' and not part of the 'fuel' cost. Replacement
cost does figure into the cost of ownership though (just as would any
other part that wears out over time). This viewpoint was nailed home
recently when a friend of mine had to replace the fuel pump in his
diesel VW Passat, and it cost him about $2400!
Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just looked at the new "White Zombie History" link on John Waylands
Website.
Fantastic !
Thanks for all the time spent to put "that" together.
Really helps you appreciate all the time and engineering that went into
getting to where you are today.
Great Job !
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/reviews.php
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C74F75.F8A1FDC6"
Subject: White Zombie History
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 07:50:50 -0600
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Thread-Topic: White Zombie History
Thread-Index: AcdPdfhefIZtFsbnQRyMfeSnTO9STw==
From: "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion Group--
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 09:37:39 -0500
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Subject: Re: Soneil Chargers
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On 13 Feb 2007 at 7:23, Darryl McMahon wrote:
> I guess we could debate what "shutting off" means.
Perhaps. To me it means that when the battery is charged, the charger stops
charging the battery entirely. It doesn't start again unless I invite it to
do so. IMO, this seems like a fairly reasonable description of "off." ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Battery Beach Burnout 07!
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 09:43:03 -0500
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This is a bit late, but, We want to express our thanks to Shawn, Matt and
everyone involved with the BBB 07!
It was far better than we expected. The education element was a fantastic
success. I am very proud of the schools that are leading the way into the
future with hands-on projects!
My only disappointments: 1) camera batteries died at the drag races! 2) Too
dumb (distracted) to charge them on-site! So, we missed some great shots at
the drag races.
Oh, well... Looking forward to next year!
Ken & Heidi
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To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Left Coast Conversions... Reverend Gadget...
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 09:49:44 -0500
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I think I remember posts about Left Coast Conversions changing or upgrading
their website. I am curious about the progress. I notice that
leftcoastconversions.com is still down.
I was looking for some information that was on the site regarding the
electricity usage of oil refineries to produce gasoline. Does anyone know of
another source for that information?
Ken
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From: Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Cost to drive a EV
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 06:55:49 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Jody,
The batteries are configured as 13 pairs connected in series, effectively
13 double-capacity Yellow Tops. They are in parallel all the time.
The max range is about 35-40 miles. However, dragging them down to 80%
DOD each and every time is guaranteed to kill the pack in short order.
I consider 50% DOD as my real limit to help extend battery life, which
happens to correspond to 17-20 miles with my (mostly freeway) commute.
Ralph
Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G writes:
>
> Ralph,
>
> You said you typically drive 35 miles a day. What is the cars
> maximum range with the yellow tops? How do you switch between the buddy
> pairs or are they in parallel all the time?
>
> Jody
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Ralph Merwin
> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 8:41
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Cost to drive a EV
>
>
> Tim Gamber writes:
> >
> > Hey everyone just wanted to know what kind of EV your driving, what
> > components you used, and how much on average it cost for you to run
> > your EV per a certain distance including battery replacement?
>
> Tim,
>
> My 1993 Geo Prizm has a 156v pack of Optima Yellow Tops, 26 batteries
> configured as 13 buddy pairs. The controller is a Zilla Z1k, the
> charger is a PFC-20. There are Rudman Regulators on each battery pair,
> with the Regbus connected to all regulators and back to the charger.
>
> I typically drive 35 miles a day during the week, and about 10-15 miles
> per day on the weekends. It costs about $15 per month for electricity
> for the Prizm. I only have to pay about half of this because my
> employer allows me to recharge at work, but then I buy three dozen
> donuts once a month as a "thanks".
>
> Battery replacement costs in the future are unknown. At the current
> prices this could be about $3500.
>
> Other 'expendables' include tires, brake pads, transmission oil, etc.
> The list is fairly short due to the lack of an ICE.
>
> Note that I consider replacement cost for the batteries as one of the
> vehicle's 'expendables' and not part of the 'fuel' cost. Replacement
> cost does figure into the cost of ownership though (just as would any
> other part that wears out over time). This viewpoint was nailed home
> recently when a friend of mine had to replace the fuel pump in his
> diesel VW Passat, and it cost him about $2400!
>
> Ralph
>
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Subject: RE: Cost to drive a EV
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 10:09:38 -0500
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
How do you keep the parallel sets from killing each other? It has been
my experience that when two batteries are in parallel with each other
they will constantly equalize each other eventually killing them both.
That is why dual battery car systems have an isolator between them. Do
you have pictures? Your project sounds very interesting!
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ralph Merwin
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 9:56
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Cost to drive a EV
Jody,
The batteries are configured as 13 pairs connected in series,
effectively
13 double-capacity Yellow Tops. They are in parallel all the time.
The max range is about 35-40 miles. However, dragging them down to 80%
DOD each and every time is guaranteed to kill the pack in short order.
I consider 50% DOD as my real limit to help extend battery life, which
happens to correspond to 17-20 miles with my (mostly freeway) commute.
Ralph
Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G writes:
>
> Ralph,
>
> You said you typically drive 35 miles a day. What is the cars
> maximum range with the yellow tops? How do you switch between the
> buddy pairs or are they in parallel all the time?
>
> Jody
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Ralph Merwin
> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 8:41
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Cost to drive a EV
>
>
> Tim Gamber writes:
> >
> > Hey everyone just wanted to know what kind of EV your driving, what
> > components you used, and how much on average it cost for you to run
> > your EV per a certain distance including battery replacement?
>
> Tim,
>
> My 1993 Geo Prizm has a 156v pack of Optima Yellow Tops, 26 batteries
> configured as 13 buddy pairs. The controller is a Zilla Z1k, the
> charger is a PFC-20. There are Rudman Regulators on each battery
> pair, with the Regbus connected to all regulators and back to the
charger.
>
> I typically drive 35 miles a day during the week, and about 10-15
> miles per day on the weekends. It costs about $15 per month for
> electricity for the Prizm. I only have to pay about half of this
> because my employer allows me to recharge at work, but then I buy
> three dozen donuts once a month as a "thanks".
>
> Battery replacement costs in the future are unknown. At the current
> prices this could be about $3500.
>
> Other 'expendables' include tires, brake pads, transmission oil, etc.
> The list is fairly short due to the lack of an ICE.
>
> Note that I consider replacement cost for the batteries as one of the
> vehicle's 'expendables' and not part of the 'fuel' cost. Replacement
> cost does figure into the cost of ownership though (just as would any
> other part that wears out over time). This viewpoint was nailed home
> recently when a friend of mine had to replace the fuel pump in his
> diesel VW Passat, and it cost him about $2400!
>
> Ralph
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "mike young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Vacuum pump running constantly
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 09:31:52 -0500
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format=flowed;
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In the winter i seem to have sticky vacuu,m pumps on all of these solectria
force cars and they work fine in warm weather mike y upstate ny
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: Vacuum pump running constantly
> One more thing, although rare. If the brake pedal doesn't come all the
> way up, the little valve in the booster won't close all the way and a
> small vacum leak will exist.
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Kip C. Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Chain Noise Re: Personal Electric Transport
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 07:02:05 -0800
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After driving a hybrid vehicle for 6 months, I'd suggest that a little noise
when you travel is a good thing. Allot of people with GOOD hearing use
their ears for vehicular clues when walking across streets and parking lots.
I lost count of how meany people we caught off guard when our ICE was
dormant. The blind don't even have a chance.
I would not be surprised if a noise making device of low volume becomes
mandatory on hybrids and electrics in the future.
- Kip
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for that link, you are right, the motorcycle makes the same
>> racket as the aspire does, too loud and annoying for me!
>> Jack
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Subject: RE: Chain Noise Re: Personal Electric Transport
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 10:33:54 -0500
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Don't most electrics "Humm" at low speeds?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kip C. Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 10:02
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Chain Noise Re: Personal Electric Transport
After driving a hybrid vehicle for 6 months, I'd suggest that a little
noise when you travel is a good thing. Allot of people with GOOD
hearing use their ears for vehicular clues when walking across streets
and parking lots.
I lost count of how meany people we caught off guard when our ICE was
dormant. The blind don't even have a chance.
I would not be surprised if a noise making device of low volume becomes
mandatory on hybrids and electrics in the future.
- Kip
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for that link, you are right, the motorcycle makes the same
>> racket as the aspire does, too loud and annoying for me!
>> Jack
--- End Message ---
