EV Digest 6417
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) vehicle mass (RE: what does unsprung mass or weight mean?)
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: what does unsprung mass or weight mean?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Car and Driver EV Racing Article Debute Delayed
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Any suggestions for electric heater cores for pack voltages over
300vdc?
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Any suggestions for electric heater cores for pack voltages
over 300vdc?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Any suggestions for electric heater cores for pack voltages over
300vdc?
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Any suggestions for electric heater cores for pack voltages
over 300vdc?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) 1200A controller; 8" ADC: low voltage readings after awhile
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Any suggestions for electric heater cores for pack voltages over
300vdc?
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Any suggestions for electric heater cores for pack voltages
over 300vdc?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) DC-DC converter on Ebay
by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Exide Orbitals anyone?
by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) re[2]: Fabulous New Energy Source for EVs!
by Michael L Werth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Cost to drive a EV
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) re: noob help
by Michael L Werth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Chain Noise Re: Personal Electric Transport
by Darryl McMahon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I think of the various masses in a vehicle as follows:
* Unsprung weight relates to the suspension. Anything attached to the
top side of the springs is sprung (frame, body, engine), anything
attached to the bottom side is unsprung (tires, wheels, axles, etc.).
Driveshafts, shocks, and springs are an interesting side discussion...
this generally speaks to suspension responsiveness, ride quality, etc.
* Reciprocating mass refers to parts that are forced to reverse
direction while moving (pistons, connecting rods, lifters, etc.) -- few
EVs will have these, but balancing them can result in better efficiency.
* Rotational mass is the driven mass that needs to be moved to turn the
wheels (crankshaft and moving parts within the motor, the spinning
shafts/gears within the tranny, driveshaft(s), differentials, and etc.
downstream to where the rubber meets the road). This generally speaks to
efficiency, as well.
* Full weight of the vehicle (again, efficiency)=
Reducing any of these masses can change performance, some more than
others. For acceleration from a standing start, reducing rotational mass
has the best payoff. For ride quality, reducing unsprung weight helps in
the context of higher sprung weight, and sometimes increasing the latter
is more attainable than decreasing the former! I think it was Buick that
once advertised "road-holding weight!"
Randii
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Peter,
> I'm sure that there is more energy savings by reducing
> weight in the drivetrain than by the same reduction in
> weight reduction of "carried weight" like freight.
>
Sure, but that's a different suject and has nothing to do with "sprung"
weight.
What you are talking about is rotating mass and primarily effects
acceleration and deceleration.
> There are many other factors like "moment of inertia"
> and the effects of reducing weight at the outside of
> the wheels versus the reductions in weight at center
> hub area. Some of these are very substantial.
Moment of inertia is normally used to describe roatating around an axis.
Again, nothing to do with sprung vs unsprung.
> The repeated stops and starts at the piston stroke
> ends is an area of wasted energy. This may not be a
> specific area defined as "sprung vs: unsprung", but
> again if you reduce piston weight, you save more
> energy than weight of freight.
>
> Some moving parts like the crankshaft have benefits of
> having weight that may be required, versus a driveline
> for example, where a lighter weight would be always(?)
> beneficial and therefor preferable to a reduction in
> same weight savings of carried freight.
As does improving aerodynamics, but this also has NOTHING to do with
sprung vs unsprung.
You can't just pick one term that applies to vehicles and lump everything
else in with it regardless of wether it applies or not.
> At any rate, our definition at Michelin was to include
> drivelines and other engine/trans components into the
> same definition of "unsprung" as wheels and tires.
I believe you might be misremembering that, possibly confusing rotational
inertia with sprung weight. I can't believe that a tire company would do
something like that.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmm, trailer brakes...
How about using eletric trailer brakes and PWM them based on pedal position?
Probably not a good idea, but possibly worth investigating.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Feb 14, 2007, at 7:41 AM, John Wayland wrote:
I had been assured by the editors at Car and Driver, that the
anticipated EV racing story was slated for the April issue that's
about to hit the stands in the next week or two...then I got the phone
call. For whatever reason, the story got bumped I'm now told, to the
May issue :-(
It was sad news for me, as White Zombie is returning to the Portland
Roadster show this year and will be on display at the Oregon
Convention Center March 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. With the April issue to be
on the stands at the same time, the timing 'was' perfect! There's
nothing better, than to have your car in a BIG show while at the same
time, it is featured in a major magazine.... oh well.
Wait - the good news here is that White Zombie will be *in* the
Portland Roadster show this year! Yea, having it in print at the same
time would add an extra touch, shoot. Still - its a major auto show,
one that draws more than just a narrow segment of auto enthusiasts,
that will provide great publicity for your efforts, EV racing, and EVs
in general.
Good work, good luck, and here is to faster times in '07,
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Again - I am not a mechanic, but I seem to recall that the "homokinetic"
coupling in the halfshaft
of some cars I worked on were one piece from the 3 claws that held on to the
actual coupler (and
rotated in/out with every wheel turn) which were extremely sharp and
precisely machined, down to
the thread on the axle stub for the centre nut, sticking out at the other
side of the wheel.
I would not want to have a car with this sharp claw sticking out behind each
wheel, though I guess
it can be cut off to leave just the axle stub that still compresses the
bearing, so the wheel
does not come off (been there - done that: forgot to bolt the centre nut
back on...) as it will
only hang between the brake shoes when it does leave the bearing...
Cor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roger Stockton
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 3:03 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
Cor van de Water wrote:
> Front-end crashes seem to be the most common, so when a read end is
> available that does not mean a front is available too, though if it is
> then it can be better to scrap one car than two halves.
Agreed. Also, someone now has the option of buying a dead/rusted/etc.
but not wrecked donor. If one must buy from a wrecker, using parts from the
same donor vehicle (or even just the same brand) makes the builder's life
easier since it is common for wreckers to specialise in domestic or european
or japanese, so even if it takes more than one wreck to supply the required
parts at least there is the benefit of one-stop-shopping ;^>
> Agree on the use of the front end from a Front Wheel Drive, did not
> think about simply leaving the half shafts unfitted.
> It may be necessary to cover the holes to avoid road gunk entering,
> though I am not a mechanic.
There wouldn't be any holes to cover. The stub axle remains to support the
brake rotor and wheel assembly, but the outer CV and everything inboard of
it simply gets left off.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
contact randy at canadian ev. canev.com he has 240v units
On Feb 14, 2007, at 1:04 PM, Paul Wallace wrote:
Always something to consider, how to defrost in the winter. Has
anyone come across a ceramic heater core that would be appropriate
for pack voltages between 300 and 400vdc?
Paul Wallace
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can wire multiple elements in series to reach almost any voltage.
Though considering how scarce 300V+ conversions are, probably not a lot of
people working in that area.
> Always something to consider, how to defrost in the winter. Has anyone
> come across a ceramic heater core that would be appropriate for pack
> voltages between 300 and 400vdc?
>
> Paul Wallace
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you can only use one, use the 240 model- it will work fine, people
use the 120 model at 192 and above.
On Feb 14, 2007, at 5:06 PM, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
You can wire multiple elements in series to reach almost any voltage.
Though considering how scarce 300V+ conversions are, probably not a
lot of
people working in that area.
Always something to consider, how to defrost in the winter. Has
anyone
come across a ceramic heater core that would be appropriate for pack
voltages between 300 and 400vdc?
Paul Wallace
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your
long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water wrote:
> Again - I am not a mechanic, but I seem to recall that the
> "homokinetic" coupling in the halfshaft of some cars I
> worked on were one piece from the 3 claws that held on to
> the actual coupler (and rotated in/out with every wheel turn)
> which were extremely sharp and precisely machined, down to
> the thread on the axle stub for the centre nut, sticking out
> at the other side of the wheel.
"homokinetic" coupling? ;^> Would you be referring to the CV joint?.
Yes, you are correct that some (perhaps most) half-shafts may not have
removable outer CV joints, and so removal of the axle would entail
disassembly of the outer CV joint. If the bit that remains as part of
the rotating stub shaft bothers you then you would simply have to have
it cut/machined from the shaft.
I'd think you'd have much more serious things to worry about if you were
in a position to be injured by this bit of rotating metal considering
that is unlikely to be turning unless the vehicle is in motion and is
completely inaccessible unless you are underneath the (moving) car...
;^)
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In the past it was mentioned that ceramic space heaters can have 4 sections
(5 wires)
which are wired in series and alternating 110 phase and neutral when used
for max heating on grid.
It is easy to skip the second and fourth wire and use it in high/low heating
mode on anything
between 200 and 300+ Volts by using either 2+2 elements or all 4 in series
(for the low setting).
Since the resistance increases with temp, they are rather self-regulating
and will take a large
range of voltages, as long as you take care that there is actually some air
flow at the highest
power situation.
See the archives for more details.
Cor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of MARK DUTKO
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 4:46 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Any suggestions for electric heater cores for pack voltages
over 300vdc?
If you can only use one, use the 240 model- it will work fine, people use
the 120 model at 192 and above.
On Feb 14, 2007, at 5:06 PM, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> You can wire multiple elements in series to reach almost any voltage.
> Though considering how scarce 300V+ conversions are, probably not a
> lot of people working in that area.
>
>
>> Always something to consider, how to defrost in the winter. Has
>> anyone come across a ceramic heater core that would be appropriate
>> for pack voltages between 300 and 400vdc?
>>
>> Paul Wallace
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
> whatever I wish with the message. By posting the message you agree
> that your long legalistic signature is void.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As you heard, I upgraded to a 1200A Raptor when the
600 blew.
Although I've tapered back the max current, after
driving a bit of hill work, I get WAAAY low voltage
sags; ie, down to 86V or so.
I'm wondering if huge amounts of current (I'll grant
that the motor sees them for a very short period of
time) are making the comm bars? pull up, and that's
causing this? (Going by memory here; motors aren't my
forte...)
Drive two hours later, and no problems whatsoever!
I've only pulled 1.8 kW or so from the batts. on a
full-charge when this happens.
Other stuff: Shift blanking is off; 2nd gear; slow
throttle ramp rate.
Perhaps I should ramp down max throttle even more.
Other thoughts?
Thanks,
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Roger,
Let me refer to Wikipedia:
"Constant Velocity Joints (aka homokinetic or CV joints)" see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constant-velocity_joint
I guess that this is the typical difference between the continents,
so I am used to a different term that describes the same thing.
Anyway, I am not so concerned about my own safety (though I have had a hell
of a time
getting a new rubber boot pulled over the sharp edges of a CV joint when I
damaged one
and did not want to lose too much skin)
but my main concern is about the stuff that is living under the car and not
always tied
down in every spot, such as flexible brake hoses and wiring (for ABS sensor,
for example)
It would be bad indeed to have the brake line cut by the claw of a
"homokinetic" joint
in a sharp turn.
Regards,
Cor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roger Stockton
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 4:48 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
Cor van de Water wrote:
> Again - I am not a mechanic, but I seem to recall that the
> "homokinetic" coupling in the halfshaft of some cars I worked on were
> one piece from the 3 claws that held on to the actual coupler (and
> rotated in/out with every wheel turn) which were extremely sharp and
> precisely machined, down to the thread on the axle stub for the centre
> nut, sticking out at the other side of the wheel.
"homokinetic" coupling? ;^> Would you be referring to the CV joint?.
Yes, you are correct that some (perhaps most) half-shafts may not have
removable outer CV joints, and so removal of the axle would entail
disassembly of the outer CV joint. If the bit that remains as part of the
rotating stub shaft bothers you then you would simply have to have it
cut/machined from the shaft.
I'd think you'd have much more serious things to worry about if you were in
a position to be injured by this bit of rotating metal considering that is
unlikely to be turning unless the vehicle is in motion and is completely
inaccessible unless you are underneath the (moving) car...
;^)
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water wrote:
> Let me refer to Wikipedia:
> "Constant Velocity Joints (aka homokinetic or CV joints)" see
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constant-velocity_joint
>
> I guess that this is the typical difference between the continents,
> so I am used to a different term that describes the same thing.
Sorry Cor, I was just teasing you a bit; I guess the smiley wasn't clear
enough.
> but my main concern is about the stuff that is living under
> the car and not always tied down in every spot, such as
> flexible brake hoses and wiring (for ABS sensor, for example)
> It would be bad indeed to have the brake line cut by the claw
> of a "homokinetic" joint in a sharp turn.
I don't really see why this should be of any greater concern than if the
CV joint and axle were still attached and spinning (the hose/wire will
wear against the rotating bits and fail eventually). The area swept by
the remaining bit of the joint attached to the stub shaft shouldn't be
anywhere near the brake hose or ABS wiring unless one radically alters
the routing of these items from stock.
Still, it should be quite a simple operation to cut the offending bit
off the end of the stub axle is there is any doubt (and it would result
in a cleaner install anyway).
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm going to do the same thing. I hope to get my pack above 300 volts this
spring, so I'm facing
the same problem. I'm going to try and wire 3 ceramic heaters togther. They
just happen to fit my
heater core location perfectly. Keep us informed on your solution.
Dave Cover
--- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You can wire multiple elements in series to reach almost any voltage.
> Though considering how scarce 300V+ conversions are, probably not a lot of
> people working in that area.
>
>
> > Always something to consider, how to defrost in the winter. Has anyone
> > come across a ceramic heater core that would be appropriate for pack
> > voltages between 300 and 400vdc?
> >
> > Paul Wallace
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Dave Cover
> I'm going to do the same thing. I hope to get my pack above 300 volts this
> spring, so I'm facing the same problem. I'm going to try and wire 3 ceramic
> heaters togther. They just happen to fit my heater core location perfectly.
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>> You can wire multiple elements in series to reach almost any voltage.
>> Though considering how scarce 300V+ conversions are, probably not
>> a lot of people working in that area.
I'm designing a heater control board for a client right now. It uses a
transistor to PWM the heater output so you can run a 240v element on a 300v
pack without excessive power dissipation. Part of the reason for doing this is
for safety; if the transistor fails "on", a circuit detects the 100% duty cycle
as a failure that shouldn't happen, and shuts off the safety relay.
I'll post details on it when it becomes available. I've been overly busy
lately, so don't want to get in over my head!
--
Lee Hart
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Peter VanDerWal
> Hmm, trailer brakes...
> How about using eletric trailer brakes and PWM them based on pedal position?
> Probably not a good idea, but possibly worth investigating.
An interesting idea. But they look incredibly cheaply made, and I suspect that
modulating the braking force with them would be hard. But if it worked, it
could be a cheaper lighter system than hydraulic brakes.
There are also some legal issues. I believe the law says hydraulic brakes are
"required". I think GM had to get some kind of waiver to use electric brakes on
the back of the EV1.
--
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is an excellent DC-DC converter made specifically for EV applications
on Ebay right now. It is up to 196V at 50 amps. The supplier in CA
(Belktronix) also makes other parts for EVs and is making my motor
controller, Charger & converter (144v setup). He used to work for FMC and
has experience with heavy duty EVs. Long waits for parts from other
suppliers were trying my patience!
The ebay item is 120086090882
Link is:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Electric-Vehicle-DC-DC-Converter-NEW-50A-84V-196V-DC-IN_W0QQitemZ120086090882QQihZ002QQcategoryZ79817QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Mark Ward
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can get Exide Orbitals wholesale ($100 ea. approx)through where I work.
Has anyone had experience good or bad with them?
I will be needing batts in the near future...hopefully!
Mark Ward
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Correct,
I think the law defines it as that there must in all circumstances be a
mechanical brake.
So, a brake operated by a flow of a fluid is OK.
Operating a brake by a flow of electricity is NOT OK, if there is not also a
mechanical brake.
I am still considering that a wheel motor (which is not always a good idea)
could be used for
braking, if there is also a mechanical way to push something down on the
rotor in case of
emergency, satisfying the law, even if it is just for one-time use only.
(Of course the electric brake can be made much more reliable than a
mechanical brake, as it
does not suffer from most of the well-known mechanical failures.)
For cost and ease of obtaining parts, I guess that sticking with common
parts as front wheel disks and rear drums will avoid creating new problems,
where the purpose is to bring a glider to market, not develop new parts
supplies and certainly not leave the glider owners without reliable parts
after-market.
Regards,
Cor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 6:24 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Brake Pressure Multiplier?
From: Peter VanDerWal
> Hmm, trailer brakes...
> How about using eletric trailer brakes and PWM them based on pedal
position?
> Probably not a good idea, but possibly worth investigating.
An interesting idea. But they look incredibly cheaply made, and I suspect
that modulating the braking force with them would be hard. But if it worked,
it could be a cheaper lighter system than hydraulic brakes.
There are also some legal issues. I believe the law says hydraulic brakes
are "required". I think GM had to get some kind of waiver to use electric
brakes on the back of the EV1.
--
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
|
Hey, that's great.
What does it do?
> retro
encabulator
<
Mr. Michael
L. Werth Sensei, Director Main Street
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L Werth Sensei, President Kids' Action
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Greaton Dr Providence, RI 02906-2914 A
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arts. www.kaloma.orgwww.firstgiving.com/kaloma[EMAIL PROTECTED]office:
(401)274-7671
|
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jody,
>From what I've read, batteries in parallel like this work a bit differently
than what you describe. When the pair is being charged, the one at a lower
state of charge will take more of the current. As its SOC increases and
its voltage tries to increase, it takes less of the charge current. The
voltage of the battery with a higher SOC cannot get significantly higher
than its mate.
Now the other battery takes more of the current until its SOC increases.
They continue like this until fully charged.
The reverse happens on discharge.
I haven't actually measured the currents going thru a pair to verify this.
Someday...
Ralph
Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G writes:
>
> Also, when the batteries charge and discharge since they are chemically
> different and their internal resistance is not the same they will react
> differently. One will always take a charge faster and so it will cook
> while the other catches up. If the weaker doesn't get the full charge
> before the charger cuts off it will go deeper than the other or the
> stronger battery will charge it up and equalize costing power. With
> regulators across the pair you will still have the same problem. The
> regulator will not cut the current off to the stronger battery so the
> weaker can get more charge. Believe me - there will always be a weaker
> and a stronger battery in a buddy pair. As the batteries age the
> difference will become greater and eventually the buddy pair will kill
> both batteries. I would really recommend separating the buddy pairs
> into strings of series batteries that can be connected in parallel
> during use or charging. That way your pack won't prematurely kill
> itself. I would hate to see your batteries die a year or so early.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of David Roden
> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 0:26
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Cost to drive a EV
>
> On 13 Feb 2007 at 20:50, Ralph Merwin wrote:
>
> > An
> > islator is not required because both batteries are getting the same
> > discharge and charge cycles.
>
> I'm not so sure. If a battery develops a shorted cell, its partner will
> empty itself trying to charge it. I even had this happen with two
> parallel 96v strings once.
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Administrator
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> > When ya'll buy special stepped cylinders, might I also suggest "multi
> > fire"
> > spark plugs... guaranteed to increase your MPG and performance by 20%???
> > <vbg>
>
> Yeah, I was going to get some of those, but they don't make the correct
> size for my electric truck yet.
Not so... they'd find just the right fit. <g> Sort of like Farmers needing
to know how many CCs my e-car had.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
|
Hi Jay:
Randy
at Canev.com seems pretty knowledgeable and
writes excellent documentation on his conversions.
Talk to you soon.
Sincerely,
Michael
> Has anyone read
through the el ninja documentation? I
have only just become interested in all this
in the last 2 days so im trying to suck up
all the information I can. I was thinking
of building something really small first.
However I do work in the electrical
industry, so I do have some idea of whats
going on. Anyone have any hints because
I have been looking around the net and no
one seems to be posting plans or a good break
down on how they are building their vehicles.
I have thus far only found 2 main pages they
are http://jerryrig.com/convert/
and http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/build
most of the others just talk how good they
are and how smart they are, but no plans
or anything described in detail. Anything
would be very helpful
Thanks
_________________________________________________________________
Live
Search: Better results, fast
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I suspect the origin of what you are looking for is Resolution 2003-05
of the U.S. National Federation of the Blind.
http://www.nfb.org/Images/nfb/Publications/bm/bm03/bm0309/bm030910.htm
(scroll down to resolution 2003-05 - I won't reproduce it here for the
sake of brevity. This generated much excitement in 2004, including a
piece in MotorTrend (my link to that doesn't work any longer).
The following is what I wrote in response at the time in another forum.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
OK, I'm going to butt in here and reprise my position on the "dangers"
of quiet vehicles.
1) The vehicle operator is responsible for the safe operation of their
vehicle. Period. If the operator wants to install a noisemaker, that
is their option, but it should not be mandated, and not specifically for
"quiet" vehicles. Even if I have an operating noisemaker on my vehicle
when I collide with a pedestrian, there is no question I will be liable
for the injury caused.
2) There are NO reported incidents resulting in physical injury due to
the lack of noise produced by on-road electric or electric-hybrid
vehicles. This is according to the NFB (as of checking their website
2006.02.07), the organization raising the issue in the U.S. since 2003.
So we are addressing a *potential* problem. That is not to say we
should not address the issue until there is an injury, but to keep a
sense of context. The issue is being raised by an organization that has
a mandate to educate the visually-impaired and help them cope in world.
Are there any better ideas on how to train the visually-impaired to
deal with this existing potential hazard?
3) Noise pollution in urban areas is a health issue. Deafness is
affecting an ever-larger portion of our population, and exposure to high
noise levels, especially prolonged exposure even at lower noise levels,
is a known cause of deafness. Quieter vehicles should be encouraged,
not discouraged. Artificial noisemakers will not make for a quieter
soundscape, but do have the potential for aggravating an existing real
and growing health issue. In Japan and Europe, the 2nd-generation Prius
is provided with a "stealth-mode", precisely so it can be operated
*more* quietly in specific urban situations.
4) Tire noise is audible, if it is not drowned out by the level of
background noise. Quiet vehicles are not the real culprit here, noisy
vehicles that produce a significant portion of the ambient noise level
are. This was highlighted for me at the Electrathons, where one could
carry on a normal conversation and actually hear birds during the course
of a vehicle "race" event.
5) EVs have been on the road in various parts of the world since the
late 1800's, in significant numbers in some areas, and this has not been
an issue (to my knowledge) until raised by the NFB in 2003.
6) Noisemakers will not afford any additional protection to the deaf, or
those wearing ear protection (apparently not uncommon in some Japanese
cities now), or those wearing personal sound devices (e.g., Walkman,
Discman, iPod).
7) EVs are already required to have a sounding device (e.g., horn)
on-board the vehicle, which can be operated by the driver. An
additional noisemaker appears to serve little purpose.
8) If this issue succeeds with stigmatizing "quiet" cars, it will
presumably be extended to other vehicles, including bicycles, tricycles,
skateboards, scooters, Segways, toy wagons, etc - anything that could
conceivably collide with a pedestrian. The resulting cacophony will
preclude any utility from the sounding devices, providing only aural
overload. More noise is not a real solution for helping the
visually-impaired.
9) Per the articles I have read, the main issue seems to center around
vehicles that are reversing. If this is the case, a noisemaker for
general operation appears to have little utility. A backup alarm would
appear to be sufficient to address this issue. I think Allan makes a
key point, "biggest danger to pedestrians is backing up in parking
lots, just as it is for regular cars". I don't see any reason why
"quiet" cars should be singled out. An ICE vehicle, if backing out on a
downgrade can also be extremely quiet, and equally hazardous to an
inattentive pedestrian.
10) I had a back-up alarm on my EVA Metro electric car. It afforded no
real help with pedestrians (presumably sighted and could actually see
the car moving as well as hearing the audible signal). However, the
alarm did aggravate my neighbours to the point that I ended up putting a
dash-mounted switch into the vehicle to disable the alarm when reversing
in my driveway either early in the morning or late at night. While the
additional noise might be beneficial to visually-impaired pedestrians in
a limited number of situations, it is also undesirable in many other
situations. How will we determine when the noisemaker should be enabled
and disabled?
11) Who will define which vehicles are "quiet", and require this
additional cost item to be installed? Will this be an incentive to
existing automakers to make sure their product line is not "too quiet"
to avoid this burden?
Personally, if I were going to install a noisemaker on my EV for
"safety" purposes, it would be the loudest, most obnoxious replay of
something from the internal combustion world I could devise, say a
combination of unmuffled engine at high revs, squealing tires and a
collision - played LOUD. Psychologically, I expect this sound
combination would get the attention of anyone nearby. Bird calls might
be unexpected (for those paying sufficient attention), but sounds
associated with imminent physical injury are more likely to get an
attentive response. I am still very much against the idea of additional
noisemakers on EVs, hybrids or any other quiet vehicle. However, if
obligated to install one, I think it should be designed to be extremely
effective in attracting attention and advertise the real problem - noisy
cars.
In my opinion, the most environmentally-friendly sound our vehicles can
make is no sound.
I recall several years ago a local company was working on a device that
could be worn by the visually-impaired that incorporated
proximity-sensing devices (similar to the focusing device on Polaroid
cameras) and a speaker. It allowed the person wearing it to detect
stationary and moving objects in their vicinity, and the information (as
opposed to simple noise) was communicated via sound signals (pitch and
pulse frequency indicated direction and distance). Perhaps this would
be a better solution than noisemakers on "quiet" cars, as it would
address all nearby objects, and not contribute to the general level of
noise pollution.
By the way, I sent an e-mail to the Canadian National Institute for the
Blind several months ago when we first addressed this, and received no
response.
++++++++++++++++
Darryl McMahon
========================================================================
Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I recall reading the same thing (not where I read it though).
----- Original Message ----
From: Kip C. Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 11:36:43 PM
Subject: Re: Chain Noise Re: Personal Electric Transport
I swear I'm not making this up, but I can't find any reference to it now
and
don't recall the source:.
I read just the other day that a blind advocacy group was actually
attempting to get some legislation into play that would require vehicles to
make a minimal amount of noise.
Perhaps somebody can debunk this. I'd rather it not come to be.
And I believe that there is still one state that has or had until a
recently, a law requiring a warning flag waver in front of a vehicle driven
by a woman.
- Kip
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: Chain Noise Re: Personal Electric Transport
> > On 13 Feb 2007 at 7:02, Kip C. Anderson wrote:
> >
>> >> I would not be surprised if a noise making device of low volume
becomes
>> >> mandatory on hybrids and electrics in the future.
> >
> > Good grief. We're trying to reduce noise pollution with EVs, not
> > introduce
> > new forms of it.
> >
> > This reminds me a bit of the infamous laws passed in the early years of
> > vehicular travel, requiring that a person walk in front of an
automobile
> > holding a lantern to warn of its approach. Such laws are well
meaning,
> > but
> > in the end they're really prompted by fear of change.
> >
> > EVs are quiet. That's their nature, and it's a good thing. It
also means
> > that we, as their drivers, have to take all the greater
responsibility for
> > pedestrians' well being, be they sighted or no.
> >
> >
> > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > EV List Administrator
--
Darryl McMahon
It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will?
The Emperor's New Hydrogen Economy (now in print and eBook)
http://www.econogics.com/TENHE/
--- End Message ---
