EV Digest 6445
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: At what cd (drag coef) and roof size for a van would the drag
of the vehicle be less than the electricity generating rate of pv's on the
roof?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: White Zombie 11s??no 10s
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) EVLN(Visually-Impaired Man Segways to Independence)-long
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) EVLN(18kW Equinox Switchmode Battery Charger)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) EVLN(Hazen's 98 Chevrolet S-10 EV daily work commute)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) EVLN(UAE wants 10k French Dassault EVs)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) New HEV and EV
by "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: At what cd (drag coef) and roof size for a van would the drag
of the vehicle be less than the electricity generating rate of pv's
on the roof?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) EVLN(Tesla selects Albuquerque, NM as its factory site)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Solar commuters, musings
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Solar commuters, musings
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: First post
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: New HEV and EV
by "Dmitri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Solar commuters, musings
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: EV digest 6424
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EV digest 6424
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: EVLN(18kW Equinox Switchmode Battery Charger)
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
From: FRED JEANETTE MERTENS
>The roof does not have to be flat, and if you also use the sides, there IS
> an output even if it is somewhat lower...
True enough. The solar raycers use highly streamlined bodies, and cover every
available square inch with solar cells. The cells they use are slightly
flexible, and can conform to the curves so they don't add any wind resistance.
The drawback is economic. You wind up with many of your very expensive cells in
places where they rarely deliver even half their rated output. But if cost is
no object...
--
Lee Hart
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Thanks for the interest, everyone.
From Dennis Berube:
>John according to the speedworld horsepower estimater your 2700 lb.
car with 450
>hp will run 10.61 at 129mph.
Thanks for the optimism, Dennis. A couple of things...the car weighs
closer to 2375-2400 lbs., so with Tim inside at 193 lbs. (I made him go
on a diet) it's probably 2600 lbs. that should be plugged into the
calculator, not 2700 lbs. On the other hand, the hp figure of 450 is
'battery' hp, not motor hp, so that figure needs to be adjusted down.
Roderick Wilde wrote:
An interesting figure is to put in John's record from last year into a
calculator. I used the one at Drag Times and I matched it against the
figures Dennis gave. It appears to give the same results as the
Speedworld one. I then put in John's numbers for his record of 12.151
at 106.25 mph. This gave a horsepower reading of 275.
Yeah, that sounds pretty close. I had figured the delivered hp was about
240 or so.
So assuming an increase of horsepower of 40% that would 385 hp. When
plugging in this on Speedworld I get 11.8 seconds ET for 385 hp. Still
very respectable and keeping with John's slogan of 11s in 2007.
With somewhere of between 300-375 hp projected at the motor in White
Zombie, I think 11s are pretty certain, and that 11.8 is right in where
I'm hoping we'll be. If we do break into the 11s we'll be required to
have a roll bar. If the car ever gets into the mid 11's, we'll be forced
to put in a full cage.
I guess I should start getting worried :-)
Maniac Mazda's incredible low 11 second runs will stand for a long time.
That monumental EV was and always will be, the first 'street bodied' EV
to ever run 11s (almost into the 10s)! Of course, having those
incredibly powerful (but oh so temperamental) TMF batteries helped :-)
Behind Maniac Mazda, White Zombie will be the second 'street bodied' EV
to do it, but it 'will' be the first fully street legal, full bodied
electric sedan to ever run 11s. Of course, this is all hypothetical,
because we haven't succeeded yet. If we do though, it will be
accomplished using non-exotic very obtainable and affordable lead acid
batteries, something I think will be notable.
From Dennis:
>You are going to fly this new year!!
Yeah, you can count on that!
See Ya......John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Visually-Impaired Man Segways to Independence)-long
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070219/NEWS/702190313/1326
Published Monday, February 19, 2007
FREEDOM RIDER By Gary White The Ledger
Visually-Impaired Lakeland Man Segways to Independence
[
http://llimg.ny.publicus.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=LL&Date=20070219&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=702190313
RICK RUNION/THE LEDGER
J. Mark Rigdon rides his Segway Personal Transporter home from
his job at Lockheed Martin in Lakeland. The high-tech electric
vehicle is the principal vehicle for Rigdon, who gave up driving
automobiles because of his poor vision.]
J. Mark Rigdon consults The Weather Channel shortly after rising
each weekday morning to decide how he'll get to work that day.
Unless the forecast calls for heavy rain, Rigdon hops on his main
mode of transportation, a tulip-red, open-topped vehicle with
rather limited occupancy. No, it's not a sporty little
convertible, though at age 47 Rigdon could be a candidate for a
midlife crisis and the corresponding roadster. The machine that
gets Rigdon to and from his job as an account associate at
Lockheed Martin in Lakeland is exotic but not cliched.
Rigdon, unable to drive a car because of impaired vision, makes
his daily commute on a Segway Personal Transporter, a
battery-powered vehicle with two large wheels set on each side of
a platform designed for a single rider.
You remember the Segway, right? Inventor Dean Kamen unveiled the
device amid staggering hoopla back in 2001, ending months of
speculation about his "It" creation. The machine, whose
futuristic technology made it responsive to the rider's movement,
was supposed to change the world, allowing commuters to jettison
their cars for a cheaper and more efficient mode of transport.
Most Americans yawned in disappointment and soon turned their
attention elsewhere; the manufacturer reports selling just 23,500
units through last September. For Rigdon, though, the Segway
really is a life-changing invention.
"It's my car; it's my sense of independence," said Rigdon, who
commutes 1 1/2 miles from his apartment to work. "I think most
people get up in the morning and get ready to go to work or go
shopping, and they don't think twice about how they're going to
get there."
Rigdon is legally blind, though he prefers the description
visually impaired. He has retinitis pigmentosa (RP), a
degenerative disorder affecting the eye cells that capture and
process light. The disease is progressive, and no cure has yet
been found for it, though doses of vitamin A are thought to
help.
Like many with RP, Rigdon has fairly good central vision but
little peripheral sight. He stopped driving a few years ago and
sold his car in 2004. His ex-wife used to drive him to work, but
when they divorced in 2005 Rigdon needed another plan.
He at first relied on rides from co-workers and the Handy Bus, a
curbside service for people with disabilities operated by Citrus
Connection, Lakeland's public-transportation company. And then
last May he paid about $5,000 for a factory-new Segway.
"When he got that, you could just see a difference in his
personality because that was his vehicle," co-worker Rich Heisler
said. "Everybody was happy for him. He felt a little more
freedom, and he can move around when he wants to."
[
http://llimg.ny.publicus.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=LL&Date=20070219&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=702190313&Ref=V2
RICK RUNION/THE LEDGER
J. Mark Rigdon pilots his Segway near his Lakeland home. The
electric vehicle can carry Rigdon up to 24 miles on a battery
charge, rolling at up to 12 miles per hour. "It creates a lot of
stares," he says.]
One day last week, Rigdon needed to run home and get a mail
delivery before his apartment's office closed. Rather than asking
a co-worker to leave work and chauffeur him, he made the run on
his Segway.
On rainy days, Rigdon catches the Handy Bus for fear water could
get into the Segway's charging port and damage the batteries,
even though he has been caught in downpours more than once
without any apparent effect.
The Segway contains microprocessors, gyroscopes and other sensors
that mimic the human body's balancing system. The rider's forward
lean propels the Segway forward, and a backward lean stops that
motion or puts the machine in reverse. The rider twists a knob on
the handle to turn, and the Segway's zero turning radius allows
Rigdon to spin in a circle. (The latest model turns based on the
rider's lean.)
"Sometimes I ride just for the fun of riding," Rigdon said.
The device runs on a pair of internal lithium-ion batteries,
which Rigdon charges overnight. It travels 18 to 24 miles on a
charge, depending on terrain, at an energy cost equivalent to
getting 450 miles per gallon of gas, and can zip at up to 12
mph.
Rigdon's model has a bell to alert pedestrians to his presence,
and he wears a red bike helmet that matches the Segway's fenders
and trim.
The Segway is classed as an "electric personal assistive mobility
device," meaning it doesn't require a license and can be ridden
on sidewalks and in residential streets. Rigdon carries liability
and collision insurance, though he said he hasn't come close to
an accident since he got the transporter.
Rigdon headed out of the Lockheed Martin parking lot on a recent
sunny afternoon en route to his apartment in the Oakbridge area.
Standing tall on the Segway's raised platform, he rolled along
the sidewalk along South Parkway Frontage Road, waited for a
traffic signal and crossed under the Polk Parkway amid rush-hour
automotive traffic. A short roll along the opposite side of
Parkway Frontage led to a turn at Oakbridge Boulevard, where
Rigdon had a wide sidewalk to himself.
At one point, he ducked under the branch of a tabebuia tree - one
of the hazards of standing several inches higher than usual.
Rigdon often rides the Segway to nearby Lakeside Village for
shopping or a movie, happy to be freed from the strict schedule
of the Handy Bus. He avoids straying too far for fear he'll run
out of juice, and despite having a bicycle light on the vehicle
he doesn't ride much at night because he doesn't see well in
darkness. He looks forward to March 11, when Daylight Savings
Time begins.
Rigdon said he's never seen anyone else riding a Segway outside
of tourist sites, though friends report spotting another rider in
North Lakeland.
"It creates a lot of stares," he said.
Drivers sometimes toss out comments at Rigdon as he zips along.
Most are of the curious/encouraging variety, though he once heard
the puzzling suggestion, "Ride a bike!"
Rigdon, a gregarious and talkative guy, seems to welcome the
attention his contraption brings. He enjoys the quips of
lunch-bound co-workers who ask, "Are you driving?"
"I try to make humor of my situation," he said. "I'm not feeling
sorry for myself. I want people to see me for my ability, not my
disability."
Rigdon, an optimist, anticipates a day when science can restore
his lost vision, at which point he'll buy a car and resume
commuting the way everybody else does. Until then, though, he's
content to be the guy riding that curious relic from a future
that didn't quite happen.
Gary White can be reached at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or at
863-802-7518. © 2007 The Ledger
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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EVLN(18kW Equinox Switchmode Battery Charger)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/508252/612
Rapid Battery Charger features intelligent modular design.
February 19, 2007 - Suited for electric vehicle and material
handling environments, 18 kW Equinox(TM) Switchmode Battery
Charger offers more than 90% efficiency and greater than .95
active power factor correction. IGBT technology controls
charger's functions, while planar transformer design provides
cooling. Unit's rectifier, power factor correction module, and
inverter modules are mounted to extruded aluminum heat sinks and
have their own thermal protection.
Press Release Release date: December 21, 2006
Prestolite Power Introduces Equinox(TM) Switchmode Rapid Battery
Chargers
High-Efficiency Charger Features Modular Design and Easy-to-Use
Interface
TROY, OH, -- AMETEK Prestolite Power, a leading manufacturer of
battery chargers and fleet management systems, has introduced
Equinox(TM) Switchmode Rapid Battery Chargers to its line of
industrial battery chargers. The 18-kilowatt Equinox charger is
ideal for a wide range of electric vehicle and material handling
environments.
The Equinox charger offers greater efficiency (>90%) and active
power factor correction (>.95) along with lower total harmonic
distortion (<10%) than either ferroresonant- or
silicon-controlled-rectifier-based (SCR) power supply systems,
resulting in lower overall energy consumption and charging costs
than either competitive system.
The Equinox also features an intelligent modular design that
incorporates state-of-the-art IGBT technology that controls the
charger's functions and minimizes downtime. In addition, the
Equinox has a unique cost-effective planar transformer design
that provides better cooling for longer component life and more
consistent manufacturing for greater reliability. The 18-kilowatt
transformer weighs a mere 15.2 pounds versus 275 pounds for a
comparable ferroresonant or SCR transformer.
The Equinox's rectifier, power factor correction and inverter
modules are keyhole mounted for quick connections and are
equipped with handles for fast and easy replacement. All are
mounted to extruded aluminum heat sinks and have their own
thermal protection.
The Equinox's user interface is very similar to Prestolite's
ULTRA family of industrial battery chargers. The front panel
display features an easy-to-read 40- character, 2-line vacuum
fluorescent display with 16-key sealed membrane keypad for data
access and programming and 4 LEDs to indicate charge progress. An
external data port is available for archive downloading.
Prestolite Power offers the industry's broadest range of
industrial motive power chargers and is the only industrial
battery charger provider able to custom tailor a system that
combines the full range of conventional, opportunity and rapid
charging solutions.
Prestolite Power is a unit of AMETEK, Inc., a leading global
manufacturer of electronic instruments and electromechanical
devices with annual sales of more than of $1.8 billion. For more
information, contact AMETEK Prestolite Power, 2220 Corporate
Drive, Troy, OH 45373. Tel: (937) 440-0800. Fax: (937) 440-0840.
Website: www.prestolitepower.com Contacts: Jim Keyser USA Phone:
937-440-0898 Company Name: AMETEK Prestolite Power & Switch
Address: 2220 Corporate Dr., Troy, OH 45373 USA Phone:
937-440-0800 FAX: 937-440-0893
http://www.powerandswitchproducts.com
Copyright 2006 Thomas Publishing Company
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Hazen's 98 Chevrolet S-10 EV daily work commute)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.ocala.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070219/NEWS/202190340/1001/NEWS01
Truck owner gets a charge out of his electric pickup
BY RICK CUNDIFF THE STAR-BANNER
[image
http://osimg.ny.publicus.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=OS&Date=20070219&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=202190340
Mark Hazen converted his truck to electric power with 16
golf-cart batteries in the pickup's bed. JANNET WALSH/
STAR-BANNER]
OCALA - The 1998 Chevrolet S-10 Mark Hazen has been driving to
work and back every day for the past few weeks does not have a
few of the things found on the average S-10. There's no radiator.
No gas tank.
And no engine.
In its place, Hazen has installed a small electric motor, good
for 70 horsepower. A bank of golf cart batteries, 16 in all,
mounted just behind the cab provide the juice to propel the truck
down the road.
"I love it," Hazen said. "It's just been great."
With a passenger on board, Hazen turns the key. Nothing happens.
Then he steps on the gas pedal.
The truck moves out of his Ocala driveway just like a gas-powered
S-10. Hazen shifts up through the stock five-speed transmission,
chirping the tires on the upshift from first.
The small truck easily keeps up with traffic on Old Jacksonville
Road. The soft whine from the electric motor is the only
indication there's not a Chevy engine under the hood. Top speed
is about 60 mph, Hazen said.
"When I'm in traffic, nobody can tell it's electric," he said.
"I've got all the power and torque I need."
Gas stations and oil changes are a thing of the past - but so are
long trips, at least without switching vehicles.
"The advantage of this is, you come home, you plug it in," Hazen
said. "The disadvantage is, you're limited to a 40-mile loop
during the day."
For Hazen, most of the time, that's enough.
"I can go out to lunch, go the the store, whatever I need to do,
and then just go home and plug it in," he said.
Electric vehicle conversions are becoming increasingly common.
Commuters with short daily trips are good candidates, said Steve
Clunn, president of Grassroots Electric Vehicles, a conversion
company in Fort Pierce.
"They can save their gas car for long trips," he said. "It's like
having a microwave and an oven. You can use the microwave 90
percent of the time, and it's more quick and efficient. People
could be driving electric cars 90 percent of the time."
Hazen, an electronics engineer at Intellon Corp., has been
interested in alternative energy sources and transportation for
years. Last August, with gas prices around the $3 a gallon mark,
he decided the time had come to put his expertise to work where
the rubber meets the road.
As he was explaining his plans in a convenience store, a fellow
patron offered to sell him the S-10. Four months later, the
electric truck was ready to roll.
"I started driving it just before Christmas," he said.
Hazen's engineering background shows under the hood. The
components are neatly spaced, wires tied down in a tidy fashion.
But the main thing you notice is space - lots of it.
Take out the gas engine and you also take out a lot of plumbing -
intake air, exhaust, radiator. The electric motor, an off-the
shelf item from a Canadian company, has plenty of room on all
sides.
Hazen figures the $1,000 or so he'll spend to replace the
batteries in two or three years is still cheaper than maintenance
on a gas-powered vehicle.
Hazen estimates he has about $10,000 invested in the truck,
including buying the S-10. He did virtually all the work on the
truck himself, and says anyone reasonably handy can do the same
thing.
"There are people that do not have engineering degrees of any
kind, but they're smart, they're handy, they're good with tools,"
he said. "They have everything they need to do the work."
While compact trucks like Hazen's are popular vehicles for
electric conversion, they're not the only option. Clunn's company
converts everything from pickups to Porsches.
"I've done everything from a lawn mower to a Ford Explorer," he
said.
Clunn likes converting old Porsche 912s to battery power. With
twin electric motors replacing the factory four-cylinder engine,
the performance can be surprising, he said.
"It'll be about the same performance," he said. "It's probably
better than the original."
Hazen does give up a few things in the name of energy efficiency.
Power steering would require a power-hungry hydraulic pump. And
there's no air conditioning, but Hazen doesn't mind.
"Could I do it? Yeah, at the expense of battery drain," he said.
"Most of the year you don't need it."
Hazen has created a Web site, www.evhelp.com, to help others
follow in his high-voltage tire tracks.
When asked how long he plans to keep the truck, Hazen doesn't
hesitate.
"Forever," he said. "This is my baby."
Rick Cundiff may be reached at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or at
(352) 867-4130.
© Copyright 2007, The Ocala Star-Banner
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know.
Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(UAE wants 10k French Dassault EVs)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Special_Events/10105544.html
Published: 20/02/2007 12:00 AM (UAE)
Baynuna holds negotiations with Mubadala to supply electric cars
By Mohammad Ezz Al Deen, Staff Reporter
Abu Dhabi: Abu Dhabi-based Baynuna Group is negotiating with
Mubadala Development, the capital's investment company, to supply
advanced electric cars for civilian or military usage, Baynuna's
chairman said.
Khalid Abdullah Al Bu Ainnain, Chairman of Baynuna, told Gulf
News in an interview that the group has signed a deal with a
French company to export 10,000 electric cars.
"We are cooperating with the giant French group Dassault to
produce an electric car which can operate on clean power with a
speed of 160 km/h," he said.
He said that the technology used in these cars is also used in
the aviation industry.
He gave no details about the value of the deal or the investment
in the joint project.
Al Bu Ainnain, the former chief of the UAE Air Force, said that
Baynuna will produce the engine, battery and air conditioning,
and the French company will produce the rest of the car.
"This low fuel consumption car could be used as taxis, public
transport vehicles and government cars," said Al Bu Ainnain.
"This technology can fit with any regular car, and most of the
car's systems can be converted to this electric car," he added.
"The car can be driven 8 years free of maintenance, and it needs
just 1.5 litres of gasoline to go 100 km," he said.
© Al Nisr Publishing LLC 2007. All rights reserved.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
____________________________________________________________________________________
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
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--- Begin Message ---
Did anyone see this.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/02/venture_vehicle.html#more they are
going to make an HEV and EV models. Also check out their videos.
http://www.flytheroad.com/ and less than $20,000.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> So my point is if you have a formula for your cd, with the roof area
> being the variable and can plug that into a formula for your energy
> usage(again you want this to be the only variable besides the solar
> cell area to energy formula, You'd be well on your way to answering
> this question. What would you do? graph the result and look for the
> high spot where they energy and cd cross? (or low energy/high cd?
> maby!)
Hmm, well Cd changes with the length of the vehicle. All else being
equal, the longer the vehicle, the higher the Cd. The amount it changes
depends on the other factors effecting the Cd, I don't think there is any
easy way to figure it out.
I suppose you could just swag it in your calculations.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Tesla selects Albuquerque, NM as its factory site)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/16735988.htm
Posted on Mon, Feb. 19, 2007 By Matt Nauman Mercury News
New Mexico snags Tesla factory ALBUQUERQUE BEATS OUT PITTSBURG
Tesla Motors, the San Carlos electric-car startup, selected
Albuquerque, N.M. Monday as the site of its factory. The
southwest city beat out Pittsburg, in Contra Costa County, as the
location for the 400-job facility.
The announcement came from the office of New Mexico Gov. Bill
Richardson, who has pledged to make his state a center of green
technology and business.
The plant will assemble a zero-emission, four-door sedan, which
carries the code name White Star. Ground will be broken in April
2007, and manufacturing is expected to begin in 2009. The company
expects to build 10,000 vehicles a year at the new factory.
Tesla will produce its first vehicle, an electric roadster, later
this year. It's being made at a Lotus factory in England. The
company has taken more than 300 deposits for the vehicle that
will be able to travel from 0 to 60 mph in about four seconds.
According to a statement released by his office, Richardson has
committed to seek $7 million over the next two years from the
state legislature to help fund the facility. Other incentives
include a high-wage job tax credit, a manufacturer's investment
tax credit and job training assistance.
The city of Albuquerque and Bernalillo County also will help
Tesla. In addition, Richardson directed the state's General
Services Division to study adding 100 White Star sedans to its
fleet. The vehicles are expected to cost about $50,000.
Tesla representatives had talked to California officials about
matching New Mexico's incentives, but Tesla CEO Martin Eberhard
recently described the negotiations as complicated.
New Mexico was ``very responsive, helping us solve workforce and
logistical challenges,''said Eberhard in the statement released
by the state.
Tesla recently opened a R&D facility in Rochester Hills, Mich.,
but will keep its headquarters in San Carlos. The company has
raised $60 million in venture capital, most of it from Silicon
Valley.
Contact Matt Nauman at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or (408) 920-5701
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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From: jerryd
> The solar commuter is an interesting problem...
> a simple tricycle with just a solar roof can work well,
> getting probably 15-25 mile/day...
> Or one can have a much more aero, faster vehicle run
> on batteries and use folding panels that can be orientated
> to the sun while parked, what it does most of the time...
> There is no reason one couldn't build a sail/EV hybrid...
That's the spirit!
I tried to write the rules to encourage creativity; so people would try *many*
different approaches. Jerry's come up with three almost immediately. I'm sure
there are more. Who knows *what* kind of vehicle would turn out the be the best
commuter? Anything from a hydrogen car to a horse! :-)
--
Lee Hart
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
www.xlr8sun.com may have beat you to the punch
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From: jerryd
> > The solar commuter is an interesting
> problem...
> > a simple tricycle with just a solar roof can work
> well,
> > getting probably 15-25 mile/day...
> > Or one can have a much more aero, faster
> vehicle run
> > on batteries and use folding panels that can be
> orientated
> > to the sun while parked, what it does most of the
> time...
> > There is no reason one couldn't build a
> sail/EV hybrid...
>
> That's the spirit!
>
> I tried to write the rules to encourage creativity;
> so people would try *many* different approaches.
> Jerry's come up with three almost immediately. I'm
> sure there are more. Who knows *what* kind of
> vehicle would turn out the be the best commuter?
> Anything from a hydrogen car to a horse! :-)
> --
> Lee Hart
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 18 Feb 2007 at 12:51, Andrew Kane wrote:
> I've only been on the list a few months but it seems that this is a
> time of great upheaval in the field of energy storage. Altairnano, EEstor,
> fireflyenergy.com, and many others have extremely impressive claims and can be
> expected to start producing actual product (or fade away) within a year or so.
These things go in cycles. When money is flowing into the system - from
investors who read a big, favorable article in some investment newletter or
magazine, or from the automakers (it does happen), or from Uncle Sam, or any
one of dozens of other sources - bright ideas crop up.
To be blunt about it, most of the companies involved live from sponsored
R&D. Nothing gets investors interested like seeing a crowd of other
investors showing interest. So PR people's job is to make every development
look like a breakthrough.
There >are< some promising developments in energy storage. But there've
been promising developments in energy storage many times in the 40 years or
so that I've been watching the EV world. In the past I've seen sodium
sulfur, vanadium redox, aluminum-air, zinc bromide, nickel [zinc / iron /
cadmium / metal hydride] and many more, all hailed as Finally, The Battery
We've Been Waiting For.
Maybe one of the current crop will turn out to be THE one, but waiting to
see if that happens will do little more than make you old. I say, build
what you can with what's available and affordable now. If something with 10
times the specific energy is available 5 years from now, well great! You
can shoehorn it in then, or build something better around it. You'll have
had 5 years of experience with EVs to show you how.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I noticed they will be using A123Systems batteries.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 10:06 PM
Subject: New HEV and EV
Did anyone see this.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/02/venture_vehicle.html#more they are
going to make an HEV and EV models. Also check out their videos.
http://www.flytheroad.com/ and less than $20,000.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>www.xlr8sun.com may have beat you to the punch
Interesting! Yes, that's the sort of imaginative vehicle I would like to see
instead of the sun raycers.
--
Lee Hart
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I want to clear up some misconceptions:
1. Just because a power supply is PFC does not mean it will not play well
with solar panels. Many fixed voltage and current power supplies have a
'negative resistance startup characteristic' that solar panels do not like.
The PFC chargers do not behave that way. You can adjust the PFC chargers to
behave like that, but it is not their nature to behave that way.
2. The Manzanita PFC charger power control circuits have three modes of
operation:
a) Constant resistance. This applies to Non buck enhanced modes when the
input voltage is under 180 VAC. As the input voltage rises, the current
rises proportionally. It is not negative resistive. Solar panels have no
problem with this property.
b) Constant power. This applies to Non buck enhanced modes when the
input voltage is over 180 VAC. As the input voltage rises, the current falls
inversely proportional to the voltage. It is a negative resistive
characteristic. Solar panels do not like this kind of load when operating
near their limit. They will play well when not near their limit. This mode
can be controlled when the machine is built by installing different
programming resistors.
c) Constant current. This applies to buck enhanced models at all
voltages. Solar panels work well with this mode but the buck enhanced models
that have been sold do not work from DC. The new buck enhanced models coming
out in a few months will work in this mode from DC. These are being
developed to be used in plug in hybrid kits.
3. The PFC chargers can be programmed through the external control port to
do power point tracking. Yes, it requires some interfacing and software
work. I'm currently doing it on an old MSDOS computer. Any computer with a
programming language and talks to an RS232 port can be used.
4. The buck enhancement feature can be turned off by moving one jumper on
the control board.
5. The Manzanita PFC machines charge fast for two reasons: PFC and
efficiency. The PFC allows the charger to pull more watts from a fixed AC
voltage and breaker size because the charger generates very little harmonic
and phase distortion that reflects back to the source causing the breaker to
open prematurely. The efficiency is above 90% therefore over 90% of the
energy from the source is delivered to the battery rather than generating
heat inside the charger.
6. Smart charging algorithms are good but the price of the hardware and
software development will nearly double the price of the chargers.
7. Isolation is good, but it nearly doubles the cost, size and weight of the
chargers.
8. No, I'm not the owner.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 12:20 PM
Subject: RE: EV digest 6424
> Hi Crystal,
>
> This is a PFC charger, so it won't play nice with your solar panels, if
you
> try plugging the charger directly into the panels. But it is one of the
best
> chargers for grid plug-in. The owner is on this list and will likely
respond
> to you, though he is extremely busy developing and shipping these units so
> it may take a bit of time.
> Cor.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 11:56 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: EV digest 6424
>
> The site doesn't seem to tell me what this does exactly. It's a charger,
> yes, but what good does it do me if I have to plug it into an AC outlet
> anyway? I'm not sure I understand the purpose of this and how it works and
> how it will afford me a greater range. Does it speed up the time required
to
> fully re-juice the batteries? Is it like the equivalent to using a
> cigarette-lighter adapter for your cell phone (1-2 hours charging rather
> than 5-6)? The website is spartan at best, and the information it provides
> is limited in scope (at least for someone who has never done this before).
>
>
>
> On Feb 16, 2007, at 1:18 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
>
> > From: Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: February 16, 2007 1:18:42 PM CST
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: RE: First post
> >
> >
> > Crystal, never under estimate the power of google.
> >
> > http://www.manzanitamicro.com/
> >
> >
> > Also read the archives on yahoo (link below), lots of people use these
> > chargers (including me). All your questions will be answered with a
> > little searching and reading.
> >
> >
> > Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well there's a number of changes. Constant output current or constant
output voltage buck/boost converters can easily fail to operate on solar
panels. The algorithm is different on the input and output side.
If a charger is configured to charge at 120V/5 amps from a panel rated
for over 600W, there's still a problem. When clouds or evening hits and
it becomes a 400W output, the available output current is reduced. In a
solar panel, once you try to draw more current than it can make the
output voltage (and thus power) drops very sharply. A standard
buck/boost would try to maintain its programmed output by drawing even
more current as the voltage drops, and it will produce almost no output
at all instead of the available 400W.
But say we do have a power point tracker. There's still algorithm
issues to consider. An algorithm just counting amp-hrs is relatively
unaffected.
If you have an algorithm watching for voltage to rise to a certain point
under a C/10 charge but due to sunlight availability you can only manage
a C/20 charge, then it can get into a slow overcharge indefinitely since
the voltage never hits the trip point because the charging current was
never high enough. It sounds like worlds of trouble with NiCd/NiMH
algorithms watching for dV/dT since you're going to be seeing dV/dT all
the time as current varies with sunlight. But it can't be impossible,
Prius charges its NiMH with large current variations due to regen
braking and charge/discharge usage and has no prob using them reliably.
Danny
Joe Smalley wrote:
I want to clear up some misconceptions:
1. Just because a power supply is PFC does not mean it will not play well
with solar panels. Many fixed voltage and current power supplies have a
'negative resistance startup characteristic' that solar panels do not like.
The PFC chargers do not behave that way. You can adjust the PFC chargers to
behave like that, but it is not their nature to behave that way.
2. The Manzanita PFC charger power control circuits have three modes of
operation:
a) Constant resistance. This applies to Non buck enhanced modes when the
input voltage is under 180 VAC. As the input voltage rises, the current
rises proportionally. It is not negative resistive. Solar panels have no
problem with this property.
b) Constant power. This applies to Non buck enhanced modes when the
input voltage is over 180 VAC. As the input voltage rises, the current falls
inversely proportional to the voltage. It is a negative resistive
characteristic. Solar panels do not like this kind of load when operating
near their limit. They will play well when not near their limit. This mode
can be controlled when the machine is built by installing different
programming resistors.
c) Constant current. This applies to buck enhanced models at all
voltages. Solar panels work well with this mode but the buck enhanced models
that have been sold do not work from DC. The new buck enhanced models coming
out in a few months will work in this mode from DC. These are being
developed to be used in plug in hybrid kits.
3. The PFC chargers can be programmed through the external control port to
do power point tracking. Yes, it requires some interfacing and software
work. I'm currently doing it on an old MSDOS computer. Any computer with a
programming language and talks to an RS232 port can be used.
4. The buck enhancement feature can be turned off by moving one jumper on
the control board.
5. The Manzanita PFC machines charge fast for two reasons: PFC and
efficiency. The PFC allows the charger to pull more watts from a fixed AC
voltage and breaker size because the charger generates very little harmonic
and phase distortion that reflects back to the source causing the breaker to
open prematurely. The efficiency is above 90% therefore over 90% of the
energy from the source is delivered to the battery rather than generating
heat inside the charger.
6. Smart charging algorithms are good but the price of the hardware and
software development will nearly double the price of the chargers.
7. Isolation is good, but it nearly doubles the cost, size and weight of the
chargers.
8. No, I'm not the owner.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 12:20 PM
Subject: RE: EV digest 6424
Hi Crystal,
This is a PFC charger, so it won't play nice with your solar panels, if
you
try plugging the charger directly into the panels. But it is one of the
best
chargers for grid plug-in. The owner is on this list and will likely
respond
to you, though he is extremely busy developing and shipping these units so
it may take a bit of time.
Cor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 11:56 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: EV digest 6424
The site doesn't seem to tell me what this does exactly. It's a charger,
yes, but what good does it do me if I have to plug it into an AC outlet
anyway? I'm not sure I understand the purpose of this and how it works and
how it will afford me a greater range. Does it speed up the time required
to
fully re-juice the batteries? Is it like the equivalent to using a
cigarette-lighter adapter for your cell phone (1-2 hours charging rather
than 5-6)? The website is spartan at best, and the information it provides
is limited in scope (at least for someone who has never done this before).
On Feb 16, 2007, at 1:18 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: February 16, 2007 1:18:42 PM CST
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: First post
Crystal, never under estimate the power of google.
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/
Also read the archives on yahoo (link below), lots of people use these
chargers (including me). All your questions will be answered with a
little searching and reading.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, Feb 19, 2007 at 08:05:56PM -0800, bruce parmenter wrote:
<..snip..>
> http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/508252/612
> Rapid Battery Charger features intelligent modular design.
>
> February 19, 2007 - Suited for electric vehicle and material
> handling environments, 18 kW Equinox(TM) Switchmode Battery
> Charger offers ...
<..snip..>
And all this can be yours for the just three easy payments of <fill
in the blank>!
:)
--- End Message ---
