[EVDL] EVcrash: Tree-head-on Tesla fire> 3+k gals of water poured (v)

2019-02-18 Thread brucedp5 via EV


'first responders instituted tactics to fight a battery fire by pouring
3,000 gallons of water on the white SUV'

https://abc7news.com/fiery-tesla-model-x-crash-in-fremont-leaves-driver-injured/5143718/
Fiery Tesla Model X crash in Fremont leaves driver injured
February 18, 2019  David Louie

[image
https://abc7news.com/photos-tesla-driver-survives-fiery-model-x-crash-in-fremont/5144010/
Tesla driver survives fiery Model X crash in Fremont


videos  flash
https://abc7news.com/video/embed/?pid=5144534
The driver of a Tesla Model X SUV survived what appeared to be a high-speed
crash in Fremont after smashing head-on into a tree on Paseo Padre Parkway
near Thornton Avenue

https://abc7news.com/video/embed/?pid=5144089 
After you see these photos, you'll be even more amazed that a Tesla driver
was able to walk away from a head-on crash into a tree in Fremont.


share
https://twitter.com/FremontPD/status/1097549555845877761
Fremont Police Department  @FremontPD
Southbound Paseo Padre Pkwy at Thornton is closed due to a single vehicle
collision.  
https://twitter.com/FremontPD/status/1097549555845877761/photo/1
At approx. 7:10 am, a driver (single occupant) collided with a tree,
resulting in a fire.  The driver sustained non-life threatening visible
injuries and was transported to a local hospital.
11:33 AM - Feb 18, 2019
]

FREMONT, Calif. (KGO) -- The driver of a Tesla Model X SUV survived what
appeared to be a high-speed crash this morning in Fremont after smashing
head-on into a tree on Paseo Padre Parkway near Thornton Avenue. Fremont
Fire Battalion Chief Gary Ashley said the driver was able to free himself
from the wreckage. The vehicle caught fire and suffered extensive damage to
the front third. No other vehicles were involved.

This happened shortly after 7 a.m. on Monday. Battalion Chief Ashley said it
was not immediately known what triggered the fire in the electric vehicle,
but first responders instituted tactics to fight a battery fire by pouring
3,000 gallons of water on the white SUV. They also used a thermal imaging
camera to detect to monitor whether the batteries might cause a second fire
to erupt as has happened in previous Tesla crashes. After more than two
hours, fire personnel deemed it was safe to move the wreckage on a flatbed
tow truck where the Tesla was isolated and monitored for a second fire at a
tow yard.

Tesla issued this statement after ABC7 News contacted the company: "We have
been in touch with the local authorities to learn the facts of the incident
and offer our full cooperation. The damage sustained by the vehicle is
indicative of a very high speed collision, which can result in a fire in any
type of car, not just electric vehicles. Despite the significant impact, we
understand that the driver sustained only minor injuries and has been taken
to the hospital for further evaluation. We are glad that he is safe."

The Model X is registered to Brian Morton. Tesla would not confirm whether
he is a Tesla employee.

This is the second incident involving Tesla in three days to which Fremont
firefighters have responded. On Saturday night, a fire erupted in a
fenced-in area of Tesla's Fremont auto plant. Battalion Chief Ashley, who
also was at that incident, said that it was difficult at first to know what
was on fire until Tesla supervisors arrived. The Fremont Fire Department
dispatched 25 personnel, including its entire hazard materials unit, to that
incident.

When asked for a statement about the Saturday night fire, a Tesla
spokesperson would only say it was contained, there were no injuries and
there was no impact to production.

"We were able to determine that some battery modules were involved, not so
much a complete pack but modules that were disassembled as I understand it
for recycling," said Battalion Chief Ashley. Once that was determined,
Ashley said Tesla provided a forklift and bins which they filled with water
to submerge the battery components ...
[© abc7news.com]


https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/02/18/vehicle-crash-closed-paseo-padre-parkway-in-fremont/
Tesla Model X slams into tree but driver OK
February 18, 2019 - FREMONT — A Tesla Model X ran off the road and slammed
into a tree early Monday morning, but the driver will be OK, police said.
The crash ...


http://www.ktvu.com/news/tesla-crashes-in-fremont-charred-vehicle-strewn-on-grass
Tesla employee fatigues after working overnight shift, crashes Model X in
fiery explosion: police
Feb 18 2019  FREMONT, Calif. (KTVU) - The driver of a Tesla Model X, who is
also an employee of the works at the car company, worked an overnight shift
and was fatigued,when he crashed on Monday in Fremont causing a fire and a
partial road shutdown, police said.

Police closed southbound Paseo Padre Pkwy at Thornton Ave was closed because
about 7 a.m. solo vehicle collision, and reopened it about 10:30 a.m.

Tesla engineers were sent to investigate, police said, and firefighters were
seen inspecting the wreckage of the charred 

Re: [EVDL] Bright Way vs. Universal Power Group

2019-02-18 Thread Lee Hart via EV

Ken Olum via EV wrote:

Hi, all.  I'm trying to replace the UB121350 AGM batteries that I have
in my Electric Ox.  I ordered new ones from Wholesale Batteries Direct,
but they are out and Universal Power Group is out at the warehouse also.
They recommended that I get the Bright Way Group BW EV12-155A instead,
for a few dollars more.  Anyone have any experience with Bright Way?  I
have had good experience with Universal Power, and know nothing about
Bright Way.  The specs on their battery claim 1000 cycles to 50% DOD,
which is pretty impressive for AGM, though that is not so important in a
lawn tractor that you don't use every day.  They claim 10 year calendar
life, also quite impressive and more relevant to me.


I have no experience or knowledge about Bright Way batteries. But 
suspicious old me says that 1000 cycles from an AGM is an extreme claim. 
Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. Where's their proof?


You may want to check to see if Bright Way is just some outfit that buys 
nameless batteries in China and slaps their own labels on them. In that 
case, they could be anything. They know darned well that you can't 
verify their claims until after they have disappeared with your money.


--
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more
violent. It takes a touch of genius, and a lot of courage, to move
in the opposite direction. -- Albert Einstein
--
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[EVDL] (more): Oil > fossil buy-in

2019-02-18 Thread brucedp5 via EV
% There has been a lot of interest in this topic.
 Normally, I do not post pro-oil/fossil news-items, but these might be of
interest/related. %


http://redgreenandblue.org/2019/02/16/ev-clean-revolution-include-fossil-fuel-dinosaurs-like-shell-bp/
Does the EV clean revolution include fossil fuel dinosaurs like Shell and
BP?
February 16th, 2019  For the next one to three years, non-Tesla electric car
sales are going to be slow. ... Back to charging and the cynical oil and gas
perspective, these companies ...
https://i1.wp.com/redgreenandblue.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Greenlots_LAPD_IMG_4359-768x512-1.jpg?resize=600%2C400


https://cleantechnica.com/2019/02/16/fossil-vehicle-sales-are-officially-now-decreasing-in-china-europe-us/
Boom! Fossil Vehicle Sales Are Officially Now Decreasing In China, Europe, &
USA ...
February 16th, 2019  Sales of fossil fuelled vehicles are now on the decline
in the world's three largest auto markets, and being replaced by electric
vehicles. Fossil car sales will only ...
https://cleantechnica.com/files/2014/03/5543835085_26a8a47275_b.jpg


https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Is-This-The-Tipping-Point-For-Electric-Vehicles.html
Is This The Tipping Point For Electric Vehicles?
Feb 16, 2019  A new report by McKinsey forecasts a rapid switch from gas
guzzlers to electric vehicles on the world's roads will be boosted by the
plummeting costs of owning ...


https://www.tabnak.ir/fa/news/879305/brent-crude-oil-slips-away-from-2019-high-after-china-reports-car-sales-drop
Brent crude oil slips away from 2019 high after China reports car sales drop
18 February 2019  So-called new energy vehicle sales in January, which
include electric vehicles, registered a 140 percent increase, underscoring
expectations that oil demand from cars may peak in China in the coming ...




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 http://evdl.org/archive/


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[EVDL] Ovshinsky was used/played/taken: ... fossil buy-in

2019-02-18 Thread brucedp5 via EV
[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Oil-utilities-buying-up-EVSE-net-charging-fossil-buy-in-tp4692843p4692874.html
]

David said> ... Ovshinsky's cashing out to GM ... <

https://www.google.com/search?q=nimh+ovshinsky+sold+gm
 ... Ovshinsky ... decision to sell to GM had been naive ...

Long before the internet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet#Rise_of_the_global_Internet_(late_1980s/early_1990s_onward)
I would read through tons of paper media on Ovshinsky's efforts to make
Ovonic (NiMH baterry) a success.

I differ from Willie, IMO, ALL automakers & oil/fossil were in cahoots to
maintain their incessant ice profit orgy (not just GM, though they are the
worst).

(section of Willie's page link)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_encumbrance_of_large_automotive_NiMH_batteries#General_Motors_and_the_US_Auto_Battery_Consortium
 ... Ovshinsky stated that in the early 1990s, the auto industry created the
US Auto Battery Consortium (USABC) to stifle the development of electric
vehicle technology by preventing the dissemination of knowledge about
Ovshinky's battery-related patents to the public through the California Air
Resources Board (CARB).

According to Ovshinsky, the auto industry falsely suggested that NiMH
technology was not yet ready for widespread use in road cars. Members of the
USABC, including General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler, threatened to take
legal action against Ovshinsky if he continued to promote NiMH's potential
for use in BEVs, and if he continued to lend test batteries to Solectria, a
start-up electric vehicle maker that was not part of the USABC. The Big
Three car companies argued that his behavior violated their exclusive rights
to the battery technology, because they had matched a federal government
grant given to Ovonics to develop NiMH technology. Critics argue that the
Big Three were more interested in convincing CARB members that electric
vehicles were not technologically and commercially viable.

In 1994, General Motors acquired a controlling interest in Ovonics's battery
development and manufacture, including patents controlling the manufacture
of large NiMH batteries. The original intent of the equity alliance was to
develop NiMH batteries for GM's EV1 BEV. Sales of GM-Ovonics batteries were
later taken over by GM manager and critic of CARB John Williams, leading
Ovshinsky to wonder whether his decision to sell to GM had been naive. The
EV1 program was shut down by GM before the new NiMH battery could be
commercialized, despite field tests that indicated the Ovonics battery
extended the EV1's range to over 150 miles ...

Darryl cynicism is warranted. Though we (the public) can't do much about it,
we should keep our eye of those fat-profit-takers, and scream bloody murder
(on the internet) when they step out of line.




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Re: [EVDL] Bright Way vs. Universal Power Group

2019-02-18 Thread brucedp5 via EV
I don't know the batteries you posted, so I can't directly answer your
question.

The evdl archive shows[
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page=413529=ken+olum
] you have asked about batteries for your 48V (6 group 24 8V batteries)
tractor [ox
http://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/~kdo/electricox/review.html
]

Agm do not cycle (or last) as long as wet cell. An 8V wet cell would give
you the cycle life you seek (or change over to li-ion).

Though Interstate is not the best battery [
https://www.interstatebatteries.com/recreation-vehicles/golf-cart-batteries/high-cycle
], there is a distributor near you [
https://www.interstatebatteries.com/location-finder?search=02067GC8-HCL-UTL
]. I also found 
https://www.interstatebatteries.com/recreation-vehicles/golf-cart-batteries/high-cycle




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Re: [EVDL] EV familiarity

2019-02-18 Thread Michael Ross via EV
The issue of wire size is ALWAYS dependent on what sort of current MAY
occur even in a fault condition. The wire must be increased in cross
section if there are heat retaining conditions such as conduit, insulation,
limited possibility of convective cooling.

So you don't size the wire based on an assumption of a balanced load, you
figure out what faults may occur and what breakers control the circuitry.
If you are uncertain you up the wire size, you do not cost reduce the
system and down size wiring on a guess. ..

I am not going to comment about a system I cannot see, anymore than a
competent doctor would diagnose a patient without seeing them.

On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 3:25 AM EVDL Administrator via EV 
wrote:

> On 17 Feb 2019 at 18:02, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
>
> > Is this legal under the NEC?
>
> On a 20 amp breaker, definitely.  On a 30 amp breaker, probably not.
>
> I don't have a copy of the NEC handy, and I'm not a code expert, but IIRC
> the code has (or had) a provision for using a size smaller neutral to feed
> a
> 120/240v balanced load (nearly equal current on both legs of the line).
> But
> since you can't warrant that both 120v receptacles will be in use at the
> same time, that exception (if it still exists) probably wouldn't apply to
> your case.
>
> Pro electricians who follow the code daily may have more or better
> information for you.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
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[EVDL] Bright Way vs. Universal Power Group

2019-02-18 Thread Ken Olum via EV
Hi, all.  I'm trying to replace the UB121350 AGM batteries that I have
in my Electric Ox.  I ordered new ones from Wholesale Batteries Direct,
but they are out and Universal Power Group is out at the warehouse also.
They recommended that I get the Bright Way Group BW EV12-155A instead,
for a few dollars more.  Anyone have any experience with Bright Way?  I
have had good experience with Universal Power, and know nothing about
Bright Way.  The specs on their battery claim 1000 cycles to 50% DOD,
which is pretty impressive for AGM, though that is not so important in a
lawn tractor that you don't use every day.  They claim 10 year calendar
life, also quite impressive and more relevant to me.

Ken
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Re: [EVDL] EV familiarity

2019-02-18 Thread Lee Hart via EV

Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:

Right now, a negligible number of people drive EVs.
The public at large still considers them golf carts, or rich yuppie

toys.

But each of us can make a huge difference.

Back in 2011, I bought some professional EV charging Outlet signs and hung
them on the two light poles in the church parking lot that had 120v
outlets.  They were never if ever used over the next 6 years, but slowly
but surely people in the church started buying EV's because they could see
my car occasionally plulgged in and began to see the ubiquity of EV
charging wherever there is an outlet.


That's a great inspiration, Bob. Thanks for sharing! I'll have to ask at 
our church. :-)


--
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more
violent. It takes a touch of genius, and a lot of courage, to move
in the opposite direction. -- Albert Einstein
--
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Re: [EVDL] Oil buying up EVSE.net charging> fossil buy-in

2019-02-18 Thread Lee Hart via EV

paul dove via EV wrote:

The way I heard the story was that he made big promises but failed to deliver. 
He had trouble managing money apparently not unlike Nikola Tesla. Here’s an 
article in Forbes that has part of the story.


Like many innovators, Ovshinsky focused more on the ideas and inventions 
than on the details of implementation. He proved it was possible; and 
left it to others to work out the details of production and how to make 
money. His company (ECD) was all about R, and then licensing the 
inventions to others.


Thus, he licensed the nimh patents to many companies to perfect and 
produce them. As usual in such matters, the companies insisted on 
contracts that prevented their competitors from licensing the same 
patents. Thus Panasonic wanted to block Duracell and Energizer, and GM 
wanted to block Ford and Toyota.


Ovonic was set up as a joint venture between GM and ECD. ECD provided 
the patents and R GM provided the money. But GM had 51% controlling 
interest. Ovshinsky just didn't have the money, or financial acument to 
match the likes of GM. So GM basically had a monopoly on large nimh cells.


--
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more
violent. It takes a touch of genius, and a lot of courage, to move
in the opposite direction. -- Albert Einstein
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] Oil buying up EVSE.net charging> fossil buy-in

2019-02-18 Thread paul dove via EV
The way I heard the story was that he made big promises but failed to deliver. 
He had trouble managing money apparently not unlike Nikola Tesla. Here’s an 
article in Forbes that has part of the story.

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/2003/1124/086.html

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 18, 2019, at 6:51 AM, Willie via EV  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2/18/19 2:42 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
>> 
>> I don't think it's unfair to say that Ovshinsky's cashing out to GM may have
>> delayed the introduction of viable mass-production EVs for at least 20
>> years.
> 
> I usually argue a more conservative 10 years.  I think we can consider about 
> 2006 to be the beginning of the lithium era. I often refer to this write up:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_encumbrance_of_large_automotive_NiMH_batteries
> https://goo.gl/3MexMM
> 
> To this day, I frequently encounter people that claim EVs were not practical 
> until lithium became available.  It seems GM's FUD of the EV1 era is still 
> trickling down.  With GM's background, I don't see how anyone familiar with 
> the situation can, in good conscious, buy a GM car.
> 
> 
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Re: [EVDL] Oil buying up EVSE.net charging> fossil buy-in

2019-02-18 Thread Willie via EV




On 2/18/19 2:42 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:


I don't think it's unfair to say that Ovshinsky's cashing out to GM may have
delayed the introduction of viable mass-production EVs for at least 20
years.


I usually argue a more conservative 10 years.  I think we can consider 
about 2006 to be the beginning of the lithium era. I often refer to this 
write up:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_encumbrance_of_large_automotive_NiMH_batteries
https://goo.gl/3MexMM

To this day, I frequently encounter people that claim EVs were not 
practical until lithium became available.  It seems GM's FUD of the EV1 
era is still trickling down.  With GM's background, I don't see how 
anyone familiar with the situation can, in good conscious, buy a GM car.



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Re: [EVDL] Oil buying up EVSE.net charging> fossil buy-in

2019-02-18 Thread EVDL Administrator via EV
On 18 Feb 2019 at 1:06, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

> Or how fast Nimh EV batteries became "unobtainium" as soon as Texaco
> and then Chevron got hold of the patents? 

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it was even before that.

I may be remembering with an accent, but I think Ovshinsky sold the NiMH 
rights to GM, naively thinking they'd use NiMH in EVs.  They did fit NiMH to 
a few limited-production EV-1s, but they also slapped capacity restrictions 
on them so that no other manufacturer could be licensed to produce EV-size 
batteries.  Texaco then bought the rights from GM and maintained the same 
restrictions.  

We could have had good, usable production EVs long before we did. Look at 
how NiMH performed in the first-generation RAV4-EVs and (especially) the 
prototype Solectria Sunrise.  Also note that Toyota and Panasonic were sued 
for violating the licensing terms.  

I don't think it's unfair to say that Ovshinsky's cashing out to GM may have 
delayed the introduction of viable mass-production EVs for at least 20 
years.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] EV familiarity

2019-02-18 Thread EVDL Administrator via EV
On 17 Feb 2019 at 18:02, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:

> Is this legal under the NEC?

On a 20 amp breaker, definitely.  On a 30 amp breaker, probably not. 

I don't have a copy of the NEC handy, and I'm not a code expert, but IIRC 
the code has (or had) a provision for using a size smaller neutral to feed a 
120/240v balanced load (nearly equal current on both legs of the line).  But 
since you can't warrant that both 120v receptacles will be in use at the 
same time, that exception (if it still exists) probably wouldn't apply to 
your case.

Pro electricians who follow the code daily may have more or better 
information for you.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] EV familiarity

2019-02-18 Thread EVDL Administrator via EV
I'm not a code expert, but as I understand it, in the addition to what Jay 
Summet said, the NEC generally prohibits connecting either 15 or 20 amp 
receptacles to a 30 amp branch circuit.  Receptacles must be 30 amp.  The 
fact that you're allowed to connect 15 amp 120v recepts to a 20 amp branch 
circuit is kind of an exception already.  

What you're doing sounds like tap conductors.  There's a whole list of rules 
for tapping a 240v feed for lower ampacity 120v circuits.  See here:

https://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarchive/NEC-
HTML/HTML/FeederSecondaryTapRules~20020326.htm

https://v.gd/Nosfgd

A much easier way to do this (fewer, less complex rules), and more 
convenient for the user if a breaker trips,  is to install a small rainproof 
subpanel at the charging location.  You would then use that to supply 
separate breaker-protected 240v and 120v circuits for charging.  

Ground and neutral must be separated at all subpanels (requires a 4-wire 
feed).  The receptacles must have heavy duty in-use covers.

I believe there is (or used to be) a code exception that allows a size 
smaller neutral (12 vs 10, 4 vs 2, etc) feeding a subpanel if a load 
calculation shows that the 120v loads will be approximately balanced.  I 
don't think that you could show that in this instance, so it probably 
doesn't apply, if it even still exists.

But -- NOTE WELL -- all this is moot unless you're a licensed electrician.  
Maybe you are, I don't know, but the fact that you didn't know what the NEC 
said about this makes me think that you might not be.  

It's illegal for an unlicensed person, no matter how knowledgable, to 
perform electrical work in or on a public building such as a church.  You 
can't even work on a rental dwelling that you either own or rent.  You're 
only allowed to work on the wiring in your own owner-occupied house, and 
then only with a permit.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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