[EVDL] EVLN: 'Enough w/ the sanctimonious green car license plates already'

2015-05-05 Thread brucedp5 via EV


'We know your car is green  superior to us in every imaginable way'

http://www.cnet.com/au/news/dear-tesla-prius-owners-enough-with-the-sanctimonious-license-plates/
Dear Tesla and Prius owners, enough with the sanctimonious license plates
by Chris Matyszczyk  28 April 2015

Technically Incorrect: Why do owners of greener vehicles feel the need to
crow about their eco-superiority? Is it pride, or a need to make the rest of
us feel bad?

Technically Incorrect offers a slightly twisted take on the tech that's
taken over our lives.

[images  / Chris Matyszczyk/CNET
http://cnet4.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2015/04/27/f9d02acd-30ea-4061-a3f8-50d3c2d416d0/thumbnail/670x503/992745527e2277cb341c645aa3db44df/tesla-license-plate.jpg
(LESCO2E)  That's it, Tesla owner. Air it out

http://cnet1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2015/04/27/434b6d0f-cedb-4bbe-a10d-adf6bb1f64e7/resize/370xauto/990acab594428c5915f9fc1a43e4b7df/prius-license-02.jpg
(TNKGLBL)  Because if you don't, we'll all be dead
]

I know we're supposed to be saving the world so that our self-centered
millennial children can destroy it in their own individual ways.

And I'm prepared to do my bit in order to recycle magazines I never ordered
and wine bottles that remind me of an evening with people whose names I
forget.

I struggle, however, with all the people who point their fingers at me and
tell me I'm not green enough. Or at least not as sanctimoniously green as
they are.

The worst thing is that they don't even know me. But it's clear that they
need to stick a billboard on their car in order to laud their own holiness
and, simultaneously, snort that their greenness is far superior to mine.

I am overtaken by this emotional climate change as I contemplate news from
greener climes. On Thursday evening of this week, Tesla Motors is set to
make a big announcement about batteries, perhaps expanding its reach beyond
its automotive microclimate. And Toyota last week began trying to build
momentum for its hydrogen-fuel car, the Mirai, with a new campaign called
Fueled by Bulls***. We get it. Green is it.

I am fretful that yet more people, on buying a musky Tesla, Toyota's Prius
or Mirai, or the greenly named Nissan Leaf, will create a license plate that
reminds everyone that they've bought a Tesla, a Prius, a Mirai or a
nonphotosynthetic Leaf.

Even before their own license plates arrive, they sometimes enjoy a
factory-made one that is equally haughty. How many times do I see a Tesla
with the printed words Zero Emissions poking out of its behind?

We know, we know. Do we have to be told again and again? It's even worse
than one of my neighbors who insisted on having a Who's Your Farmer?
sticker on his Subaru, in order to make me feel guilty -- I assume -- that I
once bought ground beef at Safeway and had no clue where it came from.

Why do green car owners, as spotted in my vicinity, need to tell me to
TNKGLBL? I find it hard enough to TNKSTR8. I am imperfect. My car is only a
diesel, and I sometimes feel driven to get a license plate shouting out
ASHAMED. Why must they try to make me feel worse?

Why do they insist that a license plate exists to shriek about carbon
dioxide or any other aspect of saving this cheerily doomed planet?

Are even BMW owners and their license plates this high and mighty?

Perhaps I am more sensitive because here in California, vanity plates are
not so common. Some years back, a study showed that the Golden State
couldn't even crack the top 10, so rare were such pressed-metal displays of
vanity.

It's even worse when they congregate around the charging station outside my
local supermarket. TNKGLBL, meet HYBRDIZ and chat about the farmer who grows
your kale.

You bought a Tesla. You have a lot of money. You feel slightly guilty about
this, so you're telling me you're saving the world (and I'm not) while
driving around in a deeply swish car? Does your shrink know?

There's one Prius owner in my area who actually performed a commendable act
of creativity. He or she bought a Prius and decided the license plate should
be SMUGCAR.

There is something so deeply self-aware about this that every time I see
this car, I just toot my horn because the owner has tooted theirs in such an
honest manner.

So green car owners, we know that your car is green. We know that you are
superior to us, society's grim detritus, in every way imaginable.
[© cnet.com]
...
http://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/detritus
detritus=trash




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Re: [EVDL] Low cost solar, virtual power plant

2015-05-05 Thread Michael Ross via EV
What SC offers is a way for homeowners who are not flush to get something
in the way of renewable energy going.  It you are just scraping by, you can
build a purpose made structure for PV, you may not even have the credit or
collateral  for a $15k or $20 financed installation.

So yes it is lacks the greatest return, but the fact it is possible at all
makes it pretty wonderful. You simply agree to the process and your power
bill drops.  You don't have to understand much - that means yt]ou can go to
work , or soccer practice, or your second job instead of researching PV and
rate schedules.

Not optimal?  Not everyone can get optimal.

On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 7:26 AM, jerry freedomev via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:

  Hi Cor and All,  Fact is as much as I like SC
 leasing is very expensive compared to owning.  SC makes almost ALL the
 money though makes clean power which isn't bad. But the low
 cost high profit way owning is far better with paybacks in many places
 under 3, even 2 yrs or places like Hawaii, 1 yr. How is
 cutting out all the parasites by buying the parts, kits from places like
 sunelec/dmsolar and having a local electrician to permit, install or do
 your own.  This comes under $2k/kw. No reason to pay more.
 Next don't put it on the house roof unless the only choice. Much better to
 make a porch, carport, patio, awnings, shed, etc added value while avoiding
 huge engineering fees and making it easier to clean, maintain and
 install.   Done right the added value of say a carport or shed
 and solar system  could increase the home's value several x's cost making
 it very profitable from day 1.   As for Tesla's battery it can
 make a profit in places like Cal Time of Day pricing, other higher rate
 areas, but really too costly.   It needs to be under $200/kwhr and soon as
 Tesla/SC makes the market, many other stationary battery types under that
 price, many with unlimited life, will pop up.  Sadly most
 utilities don't understand how DG, home solar can work with them to lower
 their cost supplying near pollution free power.  US utilities are going to
 keep shrinking, they have for yrs, and need to plan on generating a lot
 less, transporting others power to make profit or they will go bankrupt as
 few will keep paying more for polluting power when the solution is a phone
 call away.  Not just producing your home's energy needs but
 freeing one from ever higher transport fuel costs with EV's as part of the
 system lowers energy costs 50-75% with little pollution, is a hard to beat
 energy future.Jerry Dycus
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-- 
To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
Thomas A. Edison
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html

A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
*Warren Buffet*

Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
(919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone
(919) 631-1451 Cell

michael.e.r...@gmail.com
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Re: [EVDL] virtual power plant

2015-05-05 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV
 I ... put up... PV to max out the... tax credits.  If I am lucky
 it will return 7% to 9%, but Duke [utility]doesn't see it the way I
do...
 [their] rate is 9.7cents a kWh

 You have to abhor cracked atoms, heavy water out the yingyang
 and arsenic laced coal ash ponds to find much justification for
residential PV here.

To me that is the #1 justification.  How can I in good conscience  keep
burning and polluting the planet of my kids?

And secondly, the 9.7 cents is not going to stay constant.  Your solar
costs are done.  Free now forever.  But the utility will always go up.
Even at 3% per year, by the end of 20 years, that 9.7 cents will be 18
cents.

Bob


On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 7:25 PM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:

 On May 4, 2015, at 4:15 PM, Cor van de Water via EV
 ev@lists.evdl.org
 wrote:

  Again, the most optimal case would be that you can shift the full
  10kWh
 each day, which
  would yield $2.60 per day or $950 per year.
  In 10 years that would give you $9,500 which is about the money you
 invested in a 10kW
  system, 10 years earlier so this would give you a zero-percent
 investment with risks. Not good.

 Actually...a ten-year payoff is about a 7% annual rate of return,
 which is really rather good.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_72

 A ten-year payoff means that you've doubled your money over the course
 of ten years. 70 / 10 = 7%.

 (That of course assumes the battery is still worth $10K at the end,
 and so on. I've still found the Rule of 70 to be a rather useful tool
 for doing this kind of financial analysis...anything with a ten-year
 or better payoff is almost always something you should seriously
 consider leaping at, if you've got the capital to spare. You'll have
 less money in your pocket, yes, but your expenses will be dramatically
 lowered giving you a lot more financial flexibility and security.)

 b
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--
To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
Thomas A. Edison
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html

A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
*Warren Buffet*

Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
(919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google
Phone
(919) 631-1451 Cell

michael.e.r...@gmail.com
michael.e.r...@gmail.com
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[EVDL] EVLN: Getting More EVs On The Road Faster (v)

2015-05-05 Thread brucedp5 via EV


http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/In-Gear/2015/0427/How-to-get-more-electric-cars-on-the-roads-video
How to get more electric cars on the roads (+video)
By Stephen Edelstein, GreenCarReports  April 27, 2015

Electric car use has grown tremendously in recent  years, but obstacles
including cost, range, charging times, concerns about battery life, and lack
of model choices remain. 

[video  flash] 2015 Nissan Leaf Government incentives and support programs
have been helpful to the proliferation of electric cars, but a new report
says there remains more to be done.

Government incentives and support programs have been helpful to the
proliferation of electric cars, but a new report says there remains more to
be done.

In a report released Wednesday, the National Research Council (NRC)--part of
the National Academy of Science--said the Federal government should take
further steps to promote adoption of electric cars.

The NRC suggests continuing purchase incentives for electric cars past the
current production caps, and also asks the government to take a different
role in the development of charging infrastructure.

The report highlights several barriers to electric-car adoption, including
cost, range, charging times, concerns about battery life, lack of model
choices, and lack of comprehensive charging infrastructure.

To tackle these problems, the report underscores the importance of research
into cheaper batteries, as well as the development of universal standards
for charging equipment and payment.

However, it also argues the Federal government should refrain from further
investment in charging infrastructure. 

Instead, the government should fund research into public-charging usage, to
better determine where charging infrastructure can have the biggest impact
on electric-car sales.

As for current policies, the report calls for an extension of the current
$7,500 Federal income-tax credit for electric cars, and a large-scale
public-service campaign to advertise it.

Under the current rules, the credit begins to phase out over a 12-month
period for each automaker after it sells 200,000 plug-in electric cars.

The NRC also suggests converting the tax credit into a rebate that can be
applied at the point of sale, rather than a credit against future taxes that
can take up to 15 months to realize for buyers who qualify.

President Barack Obama has advocated multiple times that the credit be
turned into a purchase rebate--as well as boosting it from $7,500 to
$10,000--but Congress hasn't taken any action.

A decision to extend the credit may be needed soon, said National Resources
Defense Council transportation director Roland Hwang--a member of the
committee that compiled the report--in a recent blog post. 

While total plug-in electric-car volumes remain small, he said, certain
manufacturers could hit their production limits in 2017 or 2018.

This could potentially stall the market just as it is poised to hit its
tipping point, he said.

Those makers who have sold the highest volumes of plug-in vehicles are
likely most able to bring down battery costs to cut the cost of their newer
products.

As of March 2015, the best-selling electric car in the U.S. was the Nissan
Leaf, with 76,407 sold since December 2010. It's followed in sales volume by
the Chevrolet Volt, which has racked up 75,231 sales in the same period.

Tesla Motors does not release detailed sales figures, and the plug-in sales
totals from all other automakers are lower than those of the three leaders.

Overall plug-in electric car sales passed the 100,000 mark for the first
time last year, and are reportedly up 3 percent in the first three months of
2015.
[© The Christian Science Monitor]
...
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1097980_getting-more-electric-cars-on-roads-faster-recommendations-from-nrc
Getting More Electric Cars On Roads Faster: Recommendations ...
Apr 24, 2015  Government incentives and support programs have been helpful
to the proliferation of electric cars, but a new report says there remains
more to ...




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http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/plugged-in/2015/04/26/japan-now-has-more-ev-chargers-than-gas-stations/
Japan Now Has More EVSE Than Gas Stations

http://www.transportengineer.org.uk/transport-engineer-news/van-operators-forecast-more-electric-vehicles-in-two-years/82297/
Van operators forecast more electric vehicles in two years

http://www.nbc29.com/story/28879597/staunton-launches-first-electric-car-charging-station
Staunton VA Launches Their 1st EVSE

https://www.longislandexchange.com/press-releases/earth-day-2015-suffolk-unveils-electric-car-chargers-on-eastern-campus-other-campuses-to-follow/
Suffolk CC College L.Island NY has old CT2020 dual L2 EVSE
+
EVLN: Do Not Unplug and OK To Unplug hanging signage keeps it real


{brucedp.150m.com}



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[EVDL] EVLN: Do Not Unplug OK To Unplug hanging signage keeps it real

2015-05-05 Thread brucedp5 via EV


http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1098003_electric-car-do-not-unplug-notices-public-education-at-its-best
Electric Car 'Do Not Unplug' Notices: Public Education At Its Best
By Stephen Edelstein  Apr 27, 2015

[images  
http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/do-not-unplug-hanger-sign-by-take-charge-and-go_100509089_m.jpg
Do Not Unplug  by Take Charge and Go.

http://images.thecarconnection.com/lrg/do-not-unplug-hanger-sign-by-take-charge-and-go-photo-by-tom-moloughney_100509090_l.jpg

http://images.thecarconnection.com/lrg/do-not-unplug-hanger-sign-by-take-charge-and-go-photo-by-tom-moloughney_100509091_l.jpg
The signs are available through Take Charge and Go individually for $2.49
each, or in a 10-pack for $19.99.
]

The arrival of modern electric cars and public charging infrastructure has
brought a whole range of etiquette issues to the fore.

Electric cars' long charging times, and the limited availability of parking
spaces with access to charging stations, can sometimes create a bit of
tension.

It's not unheard of for drivers to unplug other cars when they can't find a
charging station of their own--whether those cars are done charging or not.

There's been much discussion about what to do in these situations, but now
there's a simple solution.

A hanger sign marked Do Not Unplug on one side and OK To Unplug on the
other is now available through Take Charge and Go (via Tom Moloughney's BMW
i3 blog).

The signs are shaped like the Do Not Disturb signs you'll find in hotels,
and they slip over a standard J1772 charging connector.

There's even space on the Do Not Unplug side in which the driver can write
the time when a car will be finished charging, along with a phone number.

Both sides of the card also have a list of charging-etiquette tips that
should encourage peaceful relations with other drivers.

They advise electric-car owners not to park in a charging space if they
aren't actually charging, to limit their charging times, and--of
course--never to unplug another car while it's charging.

One more feature is a QR code which, along with a link to the Take Charge
and Go website, provides further information on public charging.

Note that some electric cars have locking mechanisms that prevent them from
being unplugged until charging is complete--unless the key fob is nearby.

Only some plug-in cars have this feature, but it could create a minor
sticking point in an otherwise straightforward system of owners giving
permission to unplug after a certain time or charge level is reached.
[© greencarreports.com]
...
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=keeping+it+real
keeping it real
...
[dated]
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1089095_etiquette-tips-for-electric-car-charging-new-video-explains-it-all
Etiquette Tips For Electric-Car Charging: New Video Explains It All (Dec
2013)
...
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1080107_electric-car-owners-gas-car-in-your-space-use-this-notice
Electric-Car Owners: Gas Car In Your Space? Use This Notice! (Oct 2012)



https://transportevolved.com/2015/04/29/hotel-inspired-ev-charging-indicator-is-simple-easy-answer-to-electric-car-charger-sharing/
Hotel-Inspired EV Charging Indicator is Simple, Easy Answer to Electric Car
Charger Sharing
April 29, 2015  By Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield

[images  
https://d290b3p3ki7y5s.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/ChargeAndGo-580x326.jpg
As simple and as elegant as it gets, and there’s no excuse for unplugging
you either


https://d290b3p3ki7y5s.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/IMG_0811-580x435.jpg
The innovative cards could help those queuing for a charge at public
charging stations

https://d290b3p3ki7y5s.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/OK-to-Unplug.jpg
The hangers are simple and easy to understand
]

As your parents — or perhaps Sesame Street or even Mr. Rogers — hopefully
taught you, it’s good to share. With more plug-in cars on the road than ever
before, that’s something early adopters and newbies to electric cars alike
are having to learn, as the most popular charging station locations find
themselves inundated with more plug-in cars than charging stations.

At most rapid charging sites where owners tend to be within easy reach of
their cars and tend not to leave their vehicles for more than 30 minutes at
a time, there’s a general rule that says ‘first come, first served’.  But
what happens when you arrive at a slower Level 2 (Type 2) charging location
to find a row of cars plugged in and charging with no owner in sight? How do
you know which car to unplug — and how do you know which car can make it
home with the charge it already has?

To date, we’ve seen some pretty innovative solutions to help plug-in car
owners play nice at public charging station, ranging from low-tech notes
scribbled on pieces of paper to high-end smartphone apps with printed window
stickers or private SMS messaging.

But a new solution called the “EV Charging Hanger” has them all beat — and
it’s about as 

[EVDL] Test Drive of a Petrol Car

2015-05-05 Thread Mike Nickerson via EV
http://teslaclubsweden.se/test-drive-of-a-petrol-car/

Having heard so much good about petrol cars, we decided to test drive one. They 
are said to combine cheap price with long range and fast charging. A winning 
formula on paper – but how are they in real life?

We sat us in the loaner car at the car salesman’s office. Automakers do not 
sell the cars themselves, only through independent car repair shops as 
middlemen. It may sound like a bad omen to buy the car from a car repair shop 
that you want to visit as seldom as possible. But you apparently can’t buy the 
car directly from the manufacturer but must go through such intermediaries. The 
seller was very ”pushy” and tried to convince us to buy the car very forcibly, 
but the experience is perhaps better elsewhere.

So we sat in the car and pressed the START button. The car’s gasoline engine 
coughed to life and started to operate. One could hear the engine’s sound and 
the car’s whole body vibrated as if something was broken, but the seller 
assured us that everything was as it should. The car actually has an electric 
motor and a microscopically small battery, but they are only used to start the 
petrol engine – the electric motor does not drive the wheels. The petrol engine 
then uses a tank full of gasoline, a fossil liquid, to propel the car by 
exploding small drops of it. It is apparently the small explosions that you 
hear and feel when the engine is running.

The petrol engine consists of literally hundreds of moving parts that must have 
tolerance of hundredths of a millimeter to function. We begun to understand why 
it is car repair shops that sell the cars – they might hope for something to 
break in the car that they can mend?

We put in a gear and drove away with a jerk. The jerk came not from any extreme 
acceleration, but gasoline engines apparently cannot be driven as smoothly as 
electric motors. The acceleration did not occur at all, because we could not 
get the car to go faster than 40 km/h! By then the petrol engine literally 
howled and the whole car shook violently. Convinced that something must have 
broken we stopped the car. The seller then explained that with petrol engines 
you need to ”change gears” on a regular basis. Between the engine and the 
wheels are not a fixed ratio gear, but a variable one. The petrol engine can 
produce power only in a limited speed range, and must therefore be geared with 
different ratios in order to continue to accelerate. There are 5 different 
gears we can select with increasing speed as result. It is -as we learned 
quickly- very important that each time select a suitable gear otherwise the 
engine will either stop or get seriously damaged! You need a lot of training to 
learn to select the right gear at the right time – though there are also models 
with automatic transmissions that can do this themselves. In the manual 
transmission car, we needed to constantly guard the engine from damaging it. 
Very stressful.

We asked if the constant sound of the engine -that frankly disturbed us from 
being able to listen to the radio- could be turned off. But it couldn’t. Very 
distracting.

After getting the car up to speed through intricate changing of gears we 
approached a traffic light. Releasing the accelerator pedal resulted in no 
significant braking, we had to use the brake pedal very much to slow down the 
car. We were surprised to hear the brakes are completely mechanical! The only 
thing they generate is heat – braking gives no regeneration of gasoline back 
into the tank! Sounds like a huge waste, but it would soon get even worse.

When we came to a stop the engine continued to run and the car vibrate – even 
though the car was standing still! The engine continued to burn gasoline 
without moving the car forward. Can it really be true? Yes, the seller 
explained, it is so with gasoline cars: the engine is always running and 
burning gasoline – even when the car is stationary. Some models however 
switches off the engine at a red light, he explained. Well that certainly makes 
more sense.

After a while we came to a gas station where we could charge the car. The car 
claimed that it still had half a tank left, but we wanted to try the famous 
super-fast charging of petrol cars!

So we drove to the gas station and opened the fuel cap. The filling nozzle is 
very similar to a charging connector, but it is not electrons that come out of 
it but gasoline. Gasoline is a highly carcinogenic, smelly and flammable liquid 
derived from plants and animals extinct since millions of years ago. The 
gasoline is pumped to a tank in the car, which then drives around with about 50 
liters of this hazardous liquid in it.

We put the nozzle to the car, but nothing happened. The seller then explained 
that we must pay to fuel! Much like those extremely expensive fast chargers 
some electric utility companies have set up. After we put the credit card in 
the reader we could start fueling. It was 

Re: [EVDL] virtual power plant (battery backup thinking)

2015-05-05 Thread len moskowitz via EV
Here in northern NJ, we lose power a few days a year. Some years we'll 
have a storm that knocks out power for two or three days. After 
Hurricane Sandy we lost power for ten or eleven days.


Obviously the cost of the lost power is negligible, even at PSEG's 17.5 
cents per kWhr. That doesn't enter into the battery backup calculation 
at all.



It's not money that drives the decision - it's convenience.


At the moment, we have a few deep-discharge marine batteries and 
standalone pure-sine inverters (300W to 1500W) to power a few lamps, the 
refrigerator, the cable modem up, and to charge the cell phones and 
laptops. But during Sandy I had to borrow batteries out of my Jetta EV 
conversion. 



All of that did the job, but I missed the battery backup system's 
seamless switchover, the freedom from concern about batteries going 
dead, the bother of manual charging, and the drudge of moving batteries 
and inverters from room to room.





Len Moskowitz

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Re: [EVDL] virtual power plant (waiting for better...)

2015-05-05 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV
 for thought.

*Warren Buffet*



Michael E. Ross

(919) 585-6737 Land

(919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone

(919) 631-1451 Cell

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Re: [EVDL] virtual power plant

2015-05-05 Thread Michael Ross via EV
Even at 3% per year, by the end of 20 years, that 9.7 cents will be 18
cents.
​​

Yes, that is a personal justification for the financial investment.  In 20
years at 3% a kWh will be less here than it is in Connecticut today.  Much
as I want to whine about Duke Progress, one result of their intransigence,
micromanagement,  and attachment to nukes is a low cost of power - very
low.  We have to weigh that against poisoned aquifers and ground water.

On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 9:43 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:

  I ... put up... PV to max out the... tax credits.  If I am lucky
  it will return 7% to 9%, but Duke [utility]doesn't see it the way I
 do...
  [their] rate is 9.7cents a kWh

  You have to abhor cracked atoms, heavy water out the yingyang
  and arsenic laced coal ash ponds to find much justification for
 residential PV here.

 To me that is the #1 justification.  How can I in good conscience  keep
 burning and polluting the planet of my kids?

 And secondly, the 9.7 cents is not going to stay constant.  Your solar
 costs are done.  Free now forever.  But the utility will always go up.
 Even at 3% per year, by the end of 20 years, that 9.7 cents will be 18
 cents.

 Bob


 On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 7:25 PM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
 wrote:

  On May 4, 2015, at 4:15 PM, Cor van de Water via EV
  ev@lists.evdl.org
  wrote:
 
   Again, the most optimal case would be that you can shift the full
   10kWh
  each day, which
   would yield $2.60 per day or $950 per year.
   In 10 years that would give you $9,500 which is about the money you
  invested in a 10kW
   system, 10 years earlier so this would give you a zero-percent
  investment with risks. Not good.
 
  Actually...a ten-year payoff is about a 7% annual rate of return,
  which is really rather good.
 
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_72
 
  A ten-year payoff means that you've doubled your money over the course
  of ten years. 70 / 10 = 7%.
 
  (That of course assumes the battery is still worth $10K at the end,
  and so on. I've still found the Rule of 70 to be a rather useful tool
  for doing this kind of financial analysis...anything with a ten-year
  or better payoff is almost always something you should seriously
  consider leaping at, if you've got the capital to spare. You'll have
  less money in your pocket, yes, but your expenses will be dramatically
  lowered giving you a lot more financial flexibility and security.)
 
  b
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 --
 To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
 Thomas A. Edison
 http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html

 A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
 *Warren Buffet*

 Michael E. Ross
 (919) 585-6737 Land
 (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google
 Phone
 (919) 631-1451 Cell

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-- 
To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
Thomas A. Edison
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html

A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
*Warren Buffet*

Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
(919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone
(919) 631-1451 Cell

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Re: [EVDL] Self-driving taxibots can eliminate 90% of private cars on the streets

2015-05-05 Thread brucedp5 via EV

[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Self-driving-taxibots-can-eliminate-90-of-private-cars-on-the-streets-tp4675308.html
Self-driving taxibots can eliminate 90% of private cars on the streets
]

[Not to be confused with aircraft taxibots taxibot-international.com]


https://www.google.com/search?q=taxibots
Search  taxibots
...
http://www.citylab.com/tech/2015/04/7-benefits-and-1-huge-problem-with-a-world-of-driverless-taxis/391952/
7 Benefits and 1 Huge Problem With a World of Driverless Taxis
Eric Jaffe  Apr 30, 2015
Perhaps the biggest win: no more on-street parking. ... A city where private
cars are largely replaced with driverless taxis doesn't feel  terribly
close, but it's not too far away to think about ...
...
https://www.google.com/search?q=driverless+transitstart=10
Search  driverless transit



[Switzerland.edu driverless bus (v)]
http://actu.epfl.ch/news/ride-across-the-campus-without-a-driver-4/
Ride across the campus without a driver

[video  (camera view from front of taxibot during route)]
04.05.15 - Since April 17, driverless vehicles roam the EPFL campus. Climb
aboard for a taste of the future and meet the bellboy.

We could have sworn that the profession of elevator operator was gone. At
worst, we pictured a bellboy in an elevator in a luxury hotel in Mumbai.
Yet, the profession comes back to life in what could become a means of
transport as popular as the one inaugurated in New York on 23 March 1857.
Since 17 April the EPFL campus is a life-size laboratory for testing
autonomous shuttles as part of the European CityMobil2 project. There is no
driver but there is a bellboy. Welcome aboard!

Let us be clear: for the moment, the main motivation of the shuttles’ users
is curiosity. Passengers can neither go very far nor very fast. The proposed
route connects the M1 line stop at the Innovation Park, the Esplanade
parking lot, the Rolex Learning Center, the Starling Hotel and the
Estudiantines student residence. It was the only possible route on campus
that does not disturb the traffic and which avoids construction sites
explains our groom.

During this first phase of testing, it takes 20 minutes to cover a distance
of about 1’500 meters. Unless the passenger leaves the Starling hotel with 3
suitcases in the pouring rain, this formula has only a purely scientific
interest. The turns of the itinerary require a safe speed and even during
the few tens of meters of straight route the vehicles cannot use all their
power: they are limited for security reasons.

Why a bellboy?
The mystery remains: why a bellboy in a driverless bus? In addition to being
polite and answering questions, the bellboy is a complement to a developing
technology. When leaving each stop, he presses the button to close the
doors. This is an essential security gesture, followed by the sounding of a
bell and a gentle start. Just like in the good old days! Except for the
shuttle’s cutting edge technology. For each identified hazard, the vehicle
slows down and sometimes even weeds and daisies unnecessarily activate its
corner radars. Passersby also test its reflexes, honed by a radar on the
roof. Although the vehicle can go faster, it is not the testers’ current
intention. The technology is being tried: so far there are no accidents to
report.

Inside the vehicle, it is possible to follow the path, already mapped on a
large screen, and see through the eyes of the radars. Small red dots
highlight potential obstacles whereas a continuous line marks the trail left
by a cyclist. Suddenly the shuttle stops, stubborn as a mule. A large truck
stands before it. It is not yet able to go around obstacles, explains the
modern times elevator operator. Without hesitation, he takes the vehicle’s
controls and asks the truck’s driver to move his 26 tons. Once the way is
open, he returns the controls to the electric vehicle and the journey
resumes.

There are between 150 and 200 curious passengers per day using the shuttle
for this quick getaway. The same must have happened in the old days when
people would use the elevator just to see how it is. It's fun,
entertaining, and innovative. One feels a bit like a pioneer whose
grandchildren will say one day: When Grandma was young buses still needed
drivers.

Public transport on demand
Behind its casual appearance, this life test unique in its kind is a step
towards the future. It aims to develop a piece of software that enables to
manage a fleet of autonomous vehicles in real time from a control center,
said Raphael Gindrat, CEO of the BestMile start-up, collaborating with the
project. This promises interesting applications such as in airports,
campuses, industrial centers, recreational parks or even for public
transport on demand.

Apart from the technology developed by EPFL’s start-up, CityMobil2 is
interested in the sociological and legal aspects related to vehicles without
drivers. The passengers willing to share their impressions are invited to
answer a 

Re: [EVDL] virtual power plant (battery backup thinking)

2015-05-05 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV
 Since I really wanted a battery back-up...

Everyone's situation is different, but I had to ask myself, how often do I
lose power (and how quickly can I rig emergency power?)?  Around here it is
99.95% reliable (average 4 hours per year outage).  My typical home (1 kW
average) then loses about 80 cents of electricity per year.  Now how many
thousands of dollars and maintenance and replacement of batteries for the
rest of my life is worth 80 cents a year?

To me, its ludicrous to have home batteries...

But, of course, I do. (Wife insists on it).  SO I have 4 small marine
batteries and a 2 kW inverter (total cost about $500) to power all the
lights and the refrigerator overnight.  (Though I have not used it EVER in
the 4 years I have had solar).  And since it may on average only happen once
a year, I don't even bother with a charging system.

If I ever used the system, and needed to charge those 48v worth of
batteries, I have two clip leads that I will just clip from the 450v solar
panels directly to the battery.  The solar panels of course are current
limited to about 7 amps, so they will drop to the 48 volts for charging just
fine (human in the loop to disconnect when full).  The only excitement is
when I disconnect the clip lead and draw a nice welding arc.

With 16 kW of solar panels (6 strings at 450v or so) I have 6 strings of 7
amps or 42 amps of DC suitable for charging ANY battery (of any voltage)
during an Armageddon event indefinitely.  And although I have done designs
of an automatic switch over system and charge regulator... I just cannot
justify the time investment to replace 80 cents of electrticity per year...

Again, everone's situation is different.  But there is nothing I hate worse
in life than batteries. (except the one in the EV of course!)

Oh, another reason I have never used the home backup is simply because I
have a 1500W inverter in the Prius, and the few times I needed power, I just
plug stuff into it.  See  http://aprs.org/FD-Prius-Power.html

P.S.  The above availability of LOTS of kW of DC solar is why I have
encourage DIY folks to wire their 400-500v SERIES Strings PV with a
center-tap so that with loss of grid, they can parallel the two halves and
then get DOUBLE the current.  In my case, that could make over 80 Amps of DC
(at any voltage from 12 to over 200v) available for charging.

Even on cloudy days, the 80 amps worth of solar will still produce 8 amps of
charging (sun rise to sunset) which is alos fine for my 4 marine batteries.
SO I never need more than overnight 12 hour battery storage for the refer
and lights.

Bob, WB4aPR


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of len moskowitz via
EV
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2015 8:26 PM
To: Cor van de Water
Cc: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] virtual power plant

Cor wrote:


 that is why - next week, someone will come to inspect my home  to
 establish whether he wants to make a bid on delivering me a system

 and I have already received a bid from SolarCity.


I've had SolarCity and SunPower quote grid-tie PV systems for our home.


Provided you have the cash available, it didn't make sense to do anything
but buy the systems outright.


They both came in at $4/watt installed, with SunPower offering a higher
capacity system for our limited roof size. That was the main difference
between them.


Since I really wanted a battery back-up system like the one we had in
our previous home, I asked SunPower if they could provide just their
high efficiency solar panels, and I'd have a local contractor provide
the rest of the system based on the Outback Radian inverters, charge
controllers and monitors.


The pricing they offered for panels-only was not at all competitive. It
seems to me that they don't want to just sell panels. They want that
$4/watt.


Maybe now with the Tesla battery units becoming available, I can get
SolarCity to quote a battery backup system. I still don't expect them to
be price competitive. My impression is that they don't think that they
need to be competitive.


Len Moskowitz

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Re: [EVDL] virtual power plant (battery backup thinking)

2015-05-05 Thread Ben Goren via EV
On May 5, 2015, at 7:34 AM, Cruisin via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Why not buy a Volt 16.5kwh battery and add your own inverter for a backup.
 That's what my customers are doing. 

Where does one actually buy a Volt battery? I've looked a couple times without 
much success. I suspect it might be well worth considering for a PHEV 
conversion I have in mind to do

Thanks!

b
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Re: [EVDL] virtual power plant (waiting for better...)

2015-05-05 Thread Michael Ross via EV
 Cell

 michael.e.r...@gmail.com
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 --

 To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.

 *Thomas A. Edison
 http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html*



 A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.

 *Warren Buffet*



 Michael E. Ross

 (919) 585-6737 Land

 (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google
 Phone

 (919) 631-1451 Cell

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-- 
To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
Thomas A. Edison
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html

A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
*Warren Buffet*

Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
(919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone
(919) 631-1451 Cell

michael.e.r...@gmail.com
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Re: [EVDL] virtual power plant

2015-05-05 Thread len moskowitz via EV

In northern NJ we're paying more than 18 cents per kWhr.


Len Moskowitz
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Re: [EVDL] virtual power plant

2015-05-05 Thread Michael Ross via EV
RIght my Sunpower array is insured and bonded for complete parts and labor
for 20 years.  The Sunpower PV is guaranteed  for efficiency.  In 20 years
my PV should be still more efficient than any of the lower cost systems are
new.  Nothing matches quality manufacture for long use durable goods.

On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 10:50 AM, len moskowitz via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:

 Mark wrote:

  Did they both offer similar warranties?



 SunPower offers a better loss-of-efficiency-over-time warranty.


 Len Moskowitz

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-- 
To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
Thomas A. Edison
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html

A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
*Warren Buffet*

Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
(919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone
(919) 631-1451 Cell

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Re: [EVDL] virtual power plant

2015-05-05 Thread len moskowitz via EV

Mark wrote:


Did they both offer similar warranties?



SunPower offers a better loss-of-efficiency-over-time warranty.


Len Moskowitz
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Re: [EVDL] virtual power plant (battery backup thinking)

2015-05-05 Thread Cruisin via EV
Why not buy a Volt 16.5kwh battery and add your own inverter for a backup.
That's what my customers are doing. That's what Tesla is selling for a whole
lot more. Be careful connecting anything between your solar inverter and the
grid, as it is protecting the grid from power during a power failure. You
don't want to put power into the grid during a failure Also, don't unplug
your solar array from a backup battery charger while it is drawing power,
you will destroy the collectors unless using Micro Inverters.



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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Enclosed human-electric hybrid spins around the UCF campus

2015-05-05 Thread Ben Goren via EV
Looks like a good product. Be great to see plenty of those sorts of vehicles on 
the road.

b

On May 3, 2015, at 11:23 AM, Michael Ross michael.e.r...@gmail.com wrote:

 That looks a lot like the ELF product of the company I just started working 
 for.  I was previously a beta tester for them.  It is a good design.  I have 
 been hired to develop new products, but I hope I can add to their 
 manufacturing, purchasing and other efforts as well.
 
 Since I am an employee you have to take what I say with an open  skeptical 
 mind. 
 
 I do still have the beta I bought, and commuted 25 miles each way with.  (25 
 miles takes about 1kWh at 48VDC nominal on my older machine.  
 
 I degraded my LFP batteries by charging them fully in the hot sun, and have 
 not bought new packs. Now my commute is too long.   I think their current 
 packs are better than the ones I have, but I have no personal experience with 
 them.
 
 The ELF they sell now is better than mine in a number of ways. Fit and 
 finish, some suspension improvements, many small manufacturing details are 
 better now.. Mpre options are available.   
 
 It's effective and fun in an urban setting.  It is easy for car drivers to 
 see, and car traffic seems to treat you well - I have found it makes things 
 go smoother if you wave people around you when it makes sense - some people 
 just will not cross a double yellow without permission..   In suburbia you 
 may want to find more of the 25mph roads, but it really gets you across 
 intersections, up to speed from a dead stop, and up hills in a way no HPV 
 only bike can do.  On 25mph residential streets you will almost never hold up 
 car traffic.
 
 
 
 On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 1:41 PM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 On May 3, 2015, at 12:27 AM, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 
  The Human Assisted Electric Vehicle could reach speeds of up to 40 mph and
  has a range of about 50 miles. The entire vehicle cost about $4,000 to
  produce.
 
 Velomobiles are wonderful, as are electric-assist velomobiles. I'm not so 
 sure they'll well suited for American suburbia...but there are definitely 
 those for whom such a vehicle is perfect.
 
 The thing that surprises me, though, is that price tag. It's not that hard to 
 spend that much on a recumbent trike, let alone add a fairing and an electric 
 motor, and velomobiles generally start at that price and up -- potentially 
 way up for high performance ones.
 
 Anybody know any more about this one?
 
 b
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 -- 
 To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
 Thomas A. Edison
 
 A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
 Warren Buffet
 
 Michael E. Ross
 (919) 585-6737 Land
 (919) 576-0824 Google Phone
 (919) 631-1451 Cell
 
 michael.e.r...@gmail.com
 
 
 

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Re: [EVDL] virtual power plant

2015-05-05 Thread Mark Abramowitz via EV
On May 5, 2015, at 7:50 AM, len moskowitz lenmoskow...@optonline.net wrote:
 
 Mark wrote:
 
 Did they both offer similar warranties?
 
 
 SunPower offers a better loss-of-efficiency-over-time warranty.
 
 
 Len Moskowitz
 

Thank you.

SC folks claim they have the best warranty in the space, but I've not had an 
opportunity to really compare.
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[EVDL] Acquitted: Charging-EVr PD-assaulted pushed, handcuffed, punched, pepper-sprayed +

2015-05-05 Thread brucedp5 via EV

http://www.smmirror.com/articles/News/Pico-Neighborhood-Man-Will-Not-Be-Charged-After-Arrest-In-Virginia-Avenue-Park/43242
Pico Neighborhood Man Will Not Be Charged After Arrest In Virginia Avenue
Park
May. 5, 2015  Brenton Garen / Editor-in-Chief

[image  
http://smmirrorstatic.s3.amazonaws.com/media/220/143084520347853.jpg
Courtesy of SMPD
Justin Palmer will not be charged after he was arrested for allegedly
violating the City’s park closure ordinance at Virginia Avenue Park on the
night of April 21.
]

A Pico neighborhood man who was arrested at Virginia Avenue Park during the
late evening of April 21, for allegedly violating the City’s park closure
ordinance and delaying and obstructing officers in the performance of their
duties, will not be charged.

According to the Santa Monica Police Department, officers were conducting a
check at Virginia Avenue Park at the corner of Pico and Cloverfield on that
night when they came across a man later identified as Justin Palmer, whose
vehicle was parked at the charging station. 

The SMPD said officers told Palmer that the park closed at 11 pm and that
the electric vehicle charging station was closed as clearly posted.

“The subject repeatedly refused to leave the park and after numerous
requests, officers made the decision to issue him a citation for violating
the city’s park closure law,” according to the SMPD. “When officers
requested to see his identification, he repeatedly refused to provide it.
The subject was placed under arrest for violation of the municipal park
closure ordinance and delaying and obstructing an officer in the course of
his duties. During the arrest, the subject actively resisted. Officers
deployed pepper spray and physically restrained him.”

Palmer, 36, was taken to Santa Monica Public Safety Facility where he was
fingerprinted and booked. 

“At the Santa Monica Jail the subject complained of pain,” the SMPD said.
“He was transported to the Santa Monica Hospital for treatment and was
medically cleared. The subject was subsequently issued a citation and
released.”

Palmer and passersby disputed the time of the incident, saying it happened
just before 11 pm while the SMPD stands by its records that the incident
happened just after 11 pm.

After footage appeared on social media [
http://www.fac ebook.com/christinegp/videos/10153243630119486/
], the matter was submitted to the Criminal Division of the Santa Monica
City Attorney’s Office for review and possible filing of criminal charges. 

After careful examination of the circumstances, a decision was made not to
file charges against Palmer, according to a statement issued at 9:26 pm
Monday from the City of Santa Monica.

“Factors which precluded the filing of criminal charges were Mr. Palmer’s
belief that being present in the parking lot did not constitute a park
closure violation, signage at the entrance to the parking lot of Virginia
Avenue Park did not clearly indicate that the parking lot is included in the
park closure ordinance, and a question concerning when Mr. Palmer arrived in
the parking lot and when officers made their initial contact with him,” the
statement read. “The prosecution bears the heavy burden of proving a
criminal case beyond a reasonable doubt. The heightened standard of proof
required to sustain a criminal filing when coupled with the totality of
factors associated with this incident, precluded the filing of criminal
charges.”
[© smmirror.com]




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{brucedp.150m.com}



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Re: [EVDL] Acquitted: Charging-EVr PD-assaulted pushed, handcuffed, punched, pepper-sprayed +

2015-05-05 Thread Peri Hartman via EV
Hurray for justice!  But what a load to go through for Palmer.  Can't 
the police learn how to deal with situations like this in a more 
tolerable way - like watching for menacing indications before taking 
action?


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Sent: 05-May-15 12:06:05 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Acquitted: Charging-EVr PD-assaulted pushed, 
handcuffed, punched, pepper-sprayed +




http://www.smmirror.com/articles/News/Pico-Neighborhood-Man-Will-Not-Be-Charged-After-Arrest-In-Virginia-Avenue-Park/43242
Pico Neighborhood Man Will Not Be Charged After Arrest In Virginia 
Avenue

Park
May. 5, 2015  Brenton Garen / Editor-in-Chief

[image
http://smmirrorstatic.s3.amazonaws.com/media/220/143084520347853.jpg
Courtesy of SMPD
Justin Palmer will not be charged after he was arrested for allegedly
violating the City’s park closure ordinance at Virginia Avenue Park on 
the

night of April 21.
]

A Pico neighborhood man who was arrested at Virginia Avenue Park during 
the
late evening of April 21, for allegedly violating the City’s park 
closure
ordinance and delaying and obstructing officers in the performance of 
their

duties, will not be charged.

According to the Santa Monica Police Department, officers were 
conducting a
check at Virginia Avenue Park at the corner of Pico and Cloverfield on 
that
night when they came across a man later identified as Justin Palmer, 
whose

vehicle was parked at the charging station.

The SMPD said officers told Palmer that the park closed at 11 pm and 
that

the electric vehicle charging station was closed as clearly posted.

“The subject repeatedly refused to leave the park and after numerous
requests, officers made the decision to issue him a citation for 
violating

the city’s park closure law,” according to the SMPD. “When officers
requested to see his identification, he repeatedly refused to provide 
it.

The subject was placed under arrest for violation of the municipal park
closure ordinance and delaying and obstructing an officer in the course 
of

his duties. During the arrest, the subject actively resisted. Officers
deployed pepper spray and physically restrained him.”

Palmer, 36, was taken to Santa Monica Public Safety Facility where he 
was

fingerprinted and booked.

“At the Santa Monica Jail the subject complained of pain,” the SMPD 
said.

“He was transported to the Santa Monica Hospital for treatment and was
medically cleared. The subject was subsequently issued a citation and
released.”

Palmer and passersby disputed the time of the incident, saying it 
happened
just before 11 pm while the SMPD stands by its records that the 
incident

happened just after 11 pm.

After footage appeared on social media [
http://www.fac ebook.com/christinegp/videos/10153243630119486/
], the matter was submitted to the Criminal Division of the Santa 
Monica
City Attorney’s Office for review and possible filing of criminal 
charges.


After careful examination of the circumstances, a decision was made not 
to

file charges against Palmer, according to a statement issued at 9:26 pm
Monday from the City of Santa Monica.

“Factors which precluded the filing of criminal charges were Mr. 
Palmer’s

belief that being present in the parking lot did not constitute a park
closure violation, signage at the entrance to the parking lot of 
Virginia
Avenue Park did not clearly indicate that the parking lot is included 
in the
park closure ordinance, and a question concerning when Mr. Palmer 
arrived in
the parking lot and when officers made their initial contact with him,” 
the

statement read. “The prosecution bears the heavy burden of proving a
criminal case beyond a reasonable doubt. The heightened standard of 
proof

required to sustain a criminal filing when coupled with the totality of
factors associated with this incident, precluded the filing of criminal
charges.”
[© smmirror.com]




For EVLN posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/


{brucedp.150m.com}



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Re: [EVDL] virtual power plant (battery backup thinking)

2015-05-05 Thread Cruisin via EV
Available from cru...@live.com



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Re: [EVDL] virtual power plant

2015-05-05 Thread Michael Ross via EV
SC are newly manufacturers.  SC bought SIlevo and plans a highly automated
facility in Ohio I believe.  They may intend to honor a warranty that is
beyond what the current panels should be.  But since the mostly own the
panels and the electrons they make for the installations, it is not worth
their while for them to be broken.  It is a good deal if they don't fold
someday.  Sunpower is bonded so if they go out of  business, there is a
mechanism to honor the warranty.


In a short time, I couldn't find what seemed like a complete warranty for
all their products.  They talk about 21% efficiency, but I only found this
warranty for an 18.4% system:

http://silevosolar.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Silevo-Triex-R-Series-Datasheet4.pdf

It is comparable in time to Sunpower, but not as high efficiency.  It is
limited whereas the Sunpower is not.

On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 10:58 AM, Mark Abramowitz via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:

 On May 5, 2015, at 7:50 AM, len moskowitz lenmoskow...@optonline.net
 wrote:
 
  Mark wrote:
 
  Did they both offer similar warranties?
 
 
  SunPower offers a better loss-of-efficiency-over-time warranty.
 
 
  Len Moskowitz
 

 Thank you.

 SC folks claim they have the best warranty in the space, but I've not had
 an opportunity to really compare.
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-- 
To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
Thomas A. Edison
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html

A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
*Warren Buffet*

Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
(919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone
(919) 631-1451 Cell

michael.e.r...@gmail.com
michael.e.r...@gmail.com
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[EVDL] Fw: virtual power plant

2015-05-05 Thread Rod Hower via EV
They mentioned Buffalo, NY and Hangzhou, China , but not Ohio on their web 
site,Silevo History | silevo


|   |
|   |   |   |   |   |
| Silevo History | silevoSilevo is a solar cell innovator and photovoltaic (PV) 
solar module manufacturer that has evolved the use of silicon for solar to 
offer cost-effective high performance solar modules.  |
|  |
| View on silevosolar.com | Preview by Yahoo |
|  |
|   |

    On Tuesday, May 5, 2015 1:36 PM, Michael Ross via EV 
ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
   

 SC are newly manufacturers.  SC bought SIlevo and plans a highly automated
facility in Ohio I believe.  They may intend to honor a warranty that is
beyond what the current panels should be.  But since the mostly own the
panels and the electrons they make for the installations, it is not worth
their while for them to be broken.  It is a good deal if they don't fold
someday.  Sunpower is bonded so if they go out of  business, there is a
mechanism to honor the warranty.


In a short time, I couldn't find what seemed like a complete warranty for
all their products.  They talk about 21% efficiency, but I only found this
warranty for an 18.4% system:

http://silevosolar.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Silevo-Triex-R-Series-Datasheet4.pdf

It is comparable in time to Sunpower, but not as high efficiency.  It is
limited whereas the Sunpower is not.

On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 10:58 AM, Mark Abramowitz via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:

 On May 5, 2015, at 7:50 AM, len moskowitz lenmoskow...@optonline.net
 wrote:
 
  Mark wrote:
 
  Did they both offer similar warranties?
 
 
  SunPower offers a better loss-of-efficiency-over-time warranty.
 
 
  Len Moskowitz
 

 Thank you.

 SC folks claim they have the best warranty in the space, but I've not had
 an opportunity to really compare.
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-- 
To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
Thomas A. Edison
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html

A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
*Warren Buffet*

Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
(919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone
(919) 631-1451 Cell

michael.e.r...@gmail.com
michael.e.r...@gmail.com
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Re: [EVDL] Low cost solar, virtual power plant

2015-05-05 Thread jerry freedomev via EV
 Hi Cor and All,  Fact is as much as I like SC 
leasing is very expensive compared to owning.  SC makes almost ALL the money 
though makes clean power which isn't bad. But the low cost high 
profit way owning is far better with paybacks in many places under 3, even 2 
yrs or places like Hawaii, 1 yr. How is cutting out all the 
parasites by buying the parts, kits from places like sunelec/dmsolar and having 
a local electrician to permit, install or do your own.  This comes under 
$2k/kw. No reason to pay more.    Next don't put it on the house 
roof unless the only choice. Much better to make a porch, carport, patio, 
awnings, shed, etc added value while avoiding huge engineering fees and making 
it easier to clean, maintain and install.   Done right the added 
value of say a carport or shed and solar system  could increase the home's 
value several x's cost making it very profitable from day 1.   As 
for Tesla's battery it can make a profit in places like Cal Time of Day 
pricing, other higher rate areas, but really too costly.   It needs to be under 
$200/kwhr and soon as Tesla/SC makes the market, many other stationary battery 
types under that  price, many with unlimited life, will pop up.  
Sadly most utilities don't understand how DG, home solar can work with them to 
lower their cost supplying near pollution free power.  US utilities are going 
to keep shrinking, they have for yrs, and need to plan on generating a lot 
less, transporting others power to make profit or they will go bankrupt as few 
will keep paying more for polluting power when the solution is a phone call 
away.  Not just producing your home's energy needs but freeing one 
from ever higher transport fuel costs with EV's as part of the system lowers 
energy costs 50-75% with little pollution, is a hard to beat energy future. 
   Jerry Dycus 
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