Re: [EVDL] OT: Toyota aims to nearly eliminate gasoline cars by 2050

2015-10-16 Thread Roland via EV 
   
Back in the seventies, I experiment with hydrogen.  Did not purchase hydrogen 
gas that comes in a pressure tank that I can get from the local welding supply 
company that also sells, oxygen, propane and machines that can produce these 
gasses. 

 

To produce hydrogen, you use water and KOH (potassium hydroxide).  Add this 
mixture into a standard electrolysis vessel that is use to make distill water.  
Store the hydrogen gas in a pressure tank.  This same equipment is also use for 
making hydrogen gas for cutting torches.  

 

Install the hydrogen tank in a ICE vehicle using standard propane equipment 
that I was already running the engine on.  Use a duel fuel carburetor that is 
design to run on alcohol and propane.  

 

The hydrogen ignites without any compression, so the engine had to be ignition 
retarded to about -2 degrees below top center.  Use a high voltage ignition 
system by Pro Start the that reads the ignition resistance and adjust that 
voltage to that one cylinder.  It will also continue to pulse the spark plug if 
it did not ignite the first time.  This ignition method was use, because as the 
hydrogen explodes, it produces water which will foul the spark plug which the 
pulse ignition cleans. 

 

Instead of using a engine, this method can also be use in a remote cabin that 
has no commercial power source, or even in a EV with the standard battery pack. 
 In either of this case, we add a fuel cell that produces the electricity.  In 
a EV the standard battery pack is still use,  when the EV stops and parks,   
The fuel cell charges the battery at his time.  As the EV is started up, the 
fuel cell goes off line and the battery runs the EV.  The REGEN produces the 
energy to make more hydrogen.  

 

The standard engine is not a good prime mover for this system.  It was found 
that a turbine engine works better.

 

Roland


- Original Message - 

From: Ben Goren via EV<mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org> 

To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org> 

Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 8:53 AM

Subject: [EVDL] OT: Toyota aims to nearly eliminate gasoline cars by 2050



Off-topic because EVs aren't what they're switching to.

http://phys.org/news/2015-10-toyota-aims-gasoline-cars.html<http://phys.org/news/2015-10-toyota-aims-gasoline-cars.html>

Between VW and now Toyota, the big automakers are signaling that we're now 
officially at the end of the ICE era and that the transition to a post-ICE 
world has begun.

Toyota's fool cells, of course, haven't a prayer. Who's going to want a car 
that you have to go somewhere (that doesn't actually exist today) to pay to 
fill up when all the other cars already charge at home for free?

But riffing off the speculation in the other thread about retrofitting VW 
diesels with electric drivetrains...would I be correct in thinking that such a 
retrofit would be a lot easier with a fool cell? You've already got the 
electric motor for propulsion; rip out the H2 tank and the fool cell itself and 
fill that space with batteries and you've got a real EV.

b&
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Re: [EVDL] Emotorworks (Juicebox) customer support

2015-10-16 Thread Rush Dougherty via EV 

Jay Summet  wrote
>
> The only downside I see with the JuiceBox is that it is (not yet) UL
Certified, although they
> claim to be undergoing that multi-month long certification process now.  This
is disclosed
> on the website if you look.

Why is UL certification important to you?

Rush Dougherty
Tucson AZ 85719


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Re: [EVDL] Emotorworks (Juicebox) customer support

2015-10-16 Thread Jay Summet via EV 


On 10/16/2015 02:13 PM, Rush Dougherty via EV wrote:
> 
> Jay Summet  wrote
>>
>> The only downside I see with the JuiceBox is that it is (not yet) UL
> Certified, although they
>> claim to be undergoing that multi-month long certification process now.  This
> is disclosed
>> on the website if you look.
> 
> Why is UL certification important to you?
> 

I personally have already bought the unit, trusting that the
manufacturer has designed and tested it appropriately.

But, having an independent lab test the device and find that it is in
compliance is always better than having to trust the manufacturer.

It may be important to others because some power company rebates specify
that the EVSE must have UL certification to qualify for the rebate.

Jay Summet

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Re: [EVDL] Emotorworks (Juicebox) lack of customer support

2015-10-16 Thread Cruisin via EV 
Drive down to their address and you will understand why there is no support,
RED FLAG.

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Re: [EVDL] Emotorworks (Juicebox) customer support

2015-10-16 Thread jerry freedomev via EV 

 Hi Crusin and All,
 Since all those I saw on their website have AC plugs meaning 
San  Jose or Alameda have no jurisdiction on it.   So why are 
you saying that they do?  Jerry 
Dycus
   From: Cruisin via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
 To: ev@lists.evdl.org 
 Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 5:04 PM
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Emotorworks (Juicebox) customer support
   
The device is NOT approved to be installed in San Jose or Alameda county due
to lack of approvals. There are currently some lawsuits pending as well
according to the notices on the web.

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Re: [EVDL] Emotorworks (Juicebox) lack of customer support

2015-10-16 Thread Ken Olum via EV 
   Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 08:38:03 -0400
   From: EVDL Administrator via EV 

   Given that, my questions would be:

   1. Why does it need to talk to their servers at all?  

I don't know why they did it this way.  I would be much happier if I could
communicate directly with the box, without going through their servers.

   3. What happens to it if Emotorworks goes out of business?

I think if Emotorwerks goes out of business, you either have to do a
bunch of technical work or your box has effectively been downgraded to
the model without digital communications, in which case you have wasted
$100.

   If they've encrypted its software (many do) and you reverse-engineer it to 
   get it working again, or to make it work the way you want it to, you're in 
   violation of the DMCA and they can sic the law on you.

They claim it is open source, so presumably there is no legal issue.  But
this claim does not seem to come with any actual access to the source,
so in terms of practical value it may be meaningless.

   The nice thing about EV conversions is that they don't need fancy $600 
   networked online charging cords.  They do just fine with a $50 SJ cord and 
   plug, and a 240v or 120v receptacle.

That's true, but on the other hand all J1772 chargers have to obey a
single standard for limiting the charging rate, whereas the chargers
used in conversions all have (or don't have) their own procedures for
doing this.

   Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 07:56:11 -0500
   From: Willie2 via EV 

   ...One major, for me, problem is that the display they use on
   chargers and the premium JBs is very difficult to read.

Fortunately (?) for me, my unit does not have the display.

   Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 11:37:01 -0400
   From: Jay Summet via EV 
   
   My understanding is that once you set the charging amp limit, it will 
   not change until you modify the setting again.

If this were true, I would not be having this problem.  The charging
limit is stored on the the server.  Once you set it, the server will
always remember it.  But under certain circumstances (I wish I knew
exactly which), when the box can't reach the server, it forgets the
limit.

Ken
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Re: [EVDL] OT: Toyota aims to nearly eliminate gasoline cars by 2050

2015-10-16 Thread Ben Goren via EV 
On Oct 16, 2015, at 9:54 AM, Roland <e...@msn.com> wrote:

> Install the hydrogen tank in a ICE vehicle using standard propane equipment 
> that I was already running the engine on.

We're obviously veering sharply offtopic, now. Some years back I looked into 
doing pretty much that -- running H2 in, in this case, an aircooled '68 VW 
Westfalia Campmobile in the stock engine with a modified fuel intake system, 
similar to a propane conversion. I seem to remember that there was somebody in 
Tucson that had done it with a pickup truck of some sort. I'd use electricity 
from rooftop solar panels to analyze water and collect the hydrogen.

The numbers just didn't add up. The volumetric density of H2 at sane pressures 
is abysmal and the embrittlement of the engine from constant exposure to H2 was 
going to shorten the lift of the engine enough that it didn't make 
environmental sense. And all that's before getting into the question of putting 
in an hydrogen storage tank plus the collection and compression facilities and 
how to get from storage tank to the vehicle...in the middle of suburbia...

...compare that with even a lead acid EV conversion and the difference is quite 
stark. Comparable driving range, potentially much superior driving performance, 
much better inherent safety, and _far_ easier recharging. And the entire 
system's energy efficiency is so much better with electric rather than all the 
waste of analyzing the hydrogen and compressing it and so on.

That was the final piece of the puzzle. Both methods went from solar panels on 
the house's roof to propelling the car. One method was very direct and simple 
and efficient; the other was an insane and wasteful Rube Goldberg kludge.

The fool cell is only marginally better than running H2 in an internal 
combustion engine (which most any engine built for gasoline will happily do 
with no more than modifications to the intake and operating parameters like 
timing). Even still, lead acid would have a fool cell beat...and, with modern 
battery chemistries? There's no comparison.

b&
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Re: [EVDL] Emotorworks (Juicebox) lack of customer support

2015-10-16 Thread Cor van de Water via EV 
Eh?
If you want to make accusations then please be specific
instead of vague insinuations that could just as well be
your interpretation of a particular problem.
I have been at their site, they lease a warehouse for their
stuff and their assembly staff, as they have grown way too
big to do everything on their original address.
What is the red flag you are talking about?
I also happen to talk to Valery at the EV show in Cupertino
which they visit (and have a stand at) every year.
They may be busy and not always responsive due to over-taxing
themselves with the projects they take on, but you can't
expect to grow or even survive in this market if you do not
challenge yourself, so I see nothing out of the ordinary there.
Please clarify.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless

office +1 408 383 7626  Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130  private: cvandewater.info
www.proxim.com



This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and 
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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Cruisin via EV
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015 2:02 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Emotorworks (Juicebox) lack of customer support

Drive down to their address and you will understand why there is no support, 
RED FLAG.

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[EVDL] EVLN: Tesla-X buyers could get $25,000 tax break

2015-10-16 Thread brucedp5 via EV 


'An autopilot feature will be available for all Tesla models'

http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-tesla-model-x-tax-break-20151012-story.html
Tesla Model X buyers could get $25,000 tax break
Charles Fleming  [20151012]

[images  
http://www.trbimg.com/img-560b6994/turbine/la-fi-hy-tesla-motors-electric-cars-20150929-p-002
Tesla delivers the first of its Model X  Tesla CEO Elon Musk shows off one
of the first Model Xs to be delivered to customers (Tesla Motors)

http://www.trbimg.com/img-561bc6ad/turbine/la-fi-adv-hy-tesla-shares-20151012

http://www.trbimg.com/img-560b69e4/turbine/la-fi-hy-tesla-motors-electric-cars-20150929-pictures
Tesla CEO Elon Musk shows off one of the first Model Xs to be delivered to
customers

http://www.trbimg.com/img-560b6995/turbine/la-fi-hy-tesla-motors-electric-cars-20150929-p-001
The electric car company delivers the first of its long-delayed crossovers
to a handful of buyers

http://www.trbimg.com/img-560b6996/turbine/la-fi-hy-tesla-motors-electric-cars-20150929-p-005
]

Take heart, prospective Tesla buyers alarmed by the probable $100,000-plus
price tag for the company's new Model X: You may qualify for a $25,000 tax
break.

Tesla has confirmed reports [
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100416_tesla-model-x-suv-qualifies-for-25k-hummer-tax-break
] that the falcon-winged all-electric SUV, because of its gross vehicular
weight, may qualify for a federal tax break designed for heavy equipment. 

The tax break was originally intended to encourage farmers to invest in
their businesses by spending more freely on equipment. A weight of 6,000
pounds was set as the limit. Vehicles weighing less, which includes most
passenger cars and many light trucks, did not qualify.

As an apparently unintended consequence, though, Section 179 of the IRS code
also applied to certain automobiles, most notably the enormous Hummer
vehicles sold by General Motors.

The Hummer H1s and H2s weighed more than 6,000 pounds. A new Model X is said
to weigh about 5,500 pounds, unladen. Its so-called "gross vehicular weight"
would likely be over 6,000 pounds -- and qualify it for the tax break.

The $25,000 windfall, available only to buyers who own businesses and are
making the automobile purchase as a business investment, would be in
addition to other official incentives. Tesla's Model X, as a non-polluting,
zero-emissions, battery-electric vehicle, also qualifies for a $7,500
federal tax deduction and a $2,500 California state rebate.

Tesla is particularly adept at using subsidies [
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story.html
] to market its cars, noting that the tax credits and state rebates help
reduce the cost of ownership. 

The news of the tax break comes as the first Tesla Model Xs are beginning to
roll onto California roadways. The company's second in-production vehicle,
behind its $100,000 Model S electric four-door sedan, experienced repeated
delivery delays. The first units were delivered to purchasers late last
month, but the first round of deliveries was limited to only six vehicles [
http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-tesla-modelx-launch-questions-20150930-story.html
].

One went to company CEO Elon Musk.

Those interested in buying a Model X can make deposits through the Palo Alto
company's website. But they won't be told how much the car will ultimately
cost. Tesla has not yet announced a base price for the vehicle.

Musk has previously said the X would start at about $5,000 more than a
comparably equipped Model S sedan, which would put the starting price at
about $81,200 before federal and state electric car purchase incentives. The
price could run much higher with options, as the average transaction price
for a Model S is over $100,000.

A Tesla spokesperson declined to address the tax break question. But Tesla
spokeswoman Alexis Georgson told the online auto news organization Autoblog
that a deduction "could be taken for up to $25,000 of the purchase price" of
a new Model X.

But analysts believe the vehicle price could be considerably higher than the
Model S, and that the company may have difficulty fulfilling orders.

Morgan Stanley Research analyst Adam Jonas said he estimates the price will
be $25,000 more than the sale price of a Model S — "and easily $10k to $15k
higher than we had expected," he wrote.
[© latimes.com]



http://iusbpreface.com/2015/10/14/tesla-takes-a-step-toward-self-driving-cars-with-imminent-9805/
Tesla Takes a Step Toward Self-Driving Cars with Imminent Software Upgrade
Elsie Buchanan  Oct 14, 2015 ...

The Tesla Model X and Model S have 12 sensors at the bottom, a front-facing
camera and a rear-view mirror and a radar system ...

The autopilot feature will be available for all Tesla models ...
[© 2015 The IUSB Preface]
...
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/musk-687630-tesla-software.html
Tesla unveils autopilot for electric cars
Oct. 14, 2015  By SUSAN CARPENTER
Tesla Motors on Wednesday announced

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Renovo demos Coupe EV RWD prototype @Laguna_Seca-CA 0-60mph:3.4s

2015-10-16 Thread Cor van de Water via EV 
Desire is the mother of all unsubstantiated marketing claims
Cor

> On Oct 15, 2015, at 7:28 PM, Alan Arrison via EV  wrote:
> 
> Sigh, why do companies insist on using unsubstantiated hype like "worlds 
> first" and "worlds fastest"?
> 
> An advanced prototype of “the first the all-electric American supercar”
> Uh hello?, ever heard of a Tesla Model S? Wouldn't that qualify as a supercar?
> 
> With a 0-60 MPH time of less than 3.4 seconds, the Coupe is the quickest 
> production rear-wheel drive electric vehicle in the world.”
> Production? it says it's an advanced prototype, and a Tesla is just as fast.
> 
> Al
> 
> 
> 
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[EVDL] EVLN: $3k DigiNow L2 6&10kW fast charger for e-motorcycles

2015-10-16 Thread brucedp5 via EV 


% EVangel Terry Hershner worked with them on this. IMO, Now Electric
motorcycles take their rightful place as a lower cost Electric
transportation solution with a fast ~1hr L2 6&10kW charging capability %

http://gas2.org/2015/10/12/ev-update-super-charger-for-electric-motorcycle/
EV Update: Super Charger for Electric Motorcycle
October 12th, 2015 by Jo Borrás

[images  / Brandon Miller, via DigiNow
http://gas2.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/CHARGER_TEAM.jpg
(R team members)

http://gas2.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/CHARGER_2.jpg
Super Charger installed in Zero "tank"

http://gas2.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/CHARGER_3.jpg
You can't even tell it's there
]

“Hey, Jo!” began Brandon’s message. “Hope all is well with you! I am about
to release a new charger for Zero Motorcycles that fits into the tank, and
lets you charge up the bike in about an hour.” Since most of the EVs that
I’ve had first-hand experience with take almost a full night to recharge, I
was definitely intrigued. Even more so, of course, because: Brandon.

Brandon, if you don’t know, is a long-time friend of Gas 2. He even wrote a
few articles for us back when he first picked up his 2014 Zero SR and,
before that, when he was a part of the 2012 ReFuel event. He’s a good dude,
and he absolutely understands what both EV enthusiasts and motorcyclists
want from their rides. So, as at least one of those two things, I asked him
about his charger.

“We’re calling it the Super Charger,” explained Brandon (paraphrasing here).
“It gives you between 75 and 90 miles in an hour, and it fits in your tank.”

This, of course, confused the he(ck) out of me, because Zero Motorcycles-
which are, you know, electric- don’t actually have fuel tanks. “I’ll get you
some pictures in just a few,” said Brandon. “I’m going into a meeting with
engineers again, now.”

A few minutes later, as promised, I received my explanation …

… which brings the point home rather nicely, don’t you think? “The best
thing is that it’s easy to install,” he says. “Literally any one could do
this with a screwdriver and Allen key. There’s no confusing electric stuff
or anything … I guess if someone wants it professionally installed by a
dealer it should be pretty cheap. With some experience, they should be able
to install it in under an hour. A place that knows the bikes like Hollywood
Electrics could do it in maybe 30 minutes.”

There’s apparently a smartphone app that goes along with the new Super
Charger, since I got a screencap from Brandon’s phone that shows off some
pretty serious charging power …

… I’d be lying if I said I knew what all of that meant just by looking at
it, but I get that the gist of it is a motorcycle that be all set for a full
day of commuting after just 45 minutes to an hour of being plugged into a
standard wall socket. That’s pretty good, and quite a bit better than my own
most recent experience with the iMiEV!

You can check out Brandon’s official press release, below, and check out
DigiNow’s website for pricing and availability. If you have time, let us
know what you think of this latest charging product for electric bikes in
the comments section at the bottom of the article.

[PR]
DigiNow is Pleased to Announce the Release of the First Production
On-board/Off-board Super Charger Compatible with Zero Motorcycles.

The Super Charger is the result of the collaboration between DigiNow and
eMotorWerks, an experienced and effective team of power electronics
engineers. The innovative design leveraged open collaborative input from
some of the best experts around the world. We have been able to produce a
Super Charger which can drop perfectly into a Zero’s Tank area and charge a
Zero in most use cases in under an hour. Hollywood Electrics has also played
a significant role in making this charger a reality. Their support and
excellence in everything electric motorcycle related has been extremely
valuable since the first DigiNow charge tank iterations in 2013.

With the DigiNow Super Charger Charge Tank, an owner has the ability to
charge their motorcycle at up to 12kW peak power and up to 9kW continous
power (while utilizing the onboard charger at the same time). This is 7-10
times more powerful than the stock charger and results in charging a battery
from 0% to 80% in under 1 hour.

The Super Charger comes with a swappable J1772 connector in North
America, and a Mennekes Connector in Europe. This will allow users to
utilize the largest EV charging infrastructures in the world.

With the included J1772 connector, riders will be able to utilize the
full power of virtually any J1772 charging station. This means a rider is
able to remove their onboard charger to save weight and increase range and
still charge at 7.5 kilowatts. The Super Charger is half the weight of the
Zero Power Tank and provides the ability to be used both in the tank and in
a tail case. This means that a rider could have both a Zero Power Tank and
the DigiNow Super Charger

[EVDL] EVLN: VW Phaeton going Electric> lots of after-scandal EV talk

2015-10-16 Thread brucedp5 via EV 


'Don't let all of VW's electric-car talk fool you'

http://www.topgear.com/car-news/forget-dieselgate-vw-phaetons-going-electric
Forget dieselgate, the VW Phaeton’s going electric
Stephen Dobie  13 Oct 2015

VW’s big limo returns in EV, emissions-free form

The second generation Volkswagen Phaeton is coming, and it will be
electrically powered.
 
Yup. In what might cynically be seen as the motoring industry equivalent of
shouting “look over there” before running away, VW has announced the rebirth
of its niche limo, with added e-power.
 
It’s newsworthy that the Phaeton lives on, though: VW has also announced
it’s stripping one billion euros from its development budget in the wake of
its emissions cheat, so the replacement for its luxury saloon – the first
generation of which sells very modestly – is something that could easily
have been culled had it been any further back in the pipeline ...

VW talking up its zero emissions technology is no surprise ... further
development of the MQB modular platform that underpins so many of the VW
group’s smaller cars, their ability to use plug-in hybrid powertrains in
particular. Connectivity and driver assistance systems will also be given
more attention.
 
Pure electric vehicles are a big focus, with VW targeting the ability to
travel up to 310 miles on one charge for a whole bunch of cars and small
vans ...
[© BBC Worldwide]
...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_MQB_platform
Volkswagen Group MQB platform
...
http://www.thesundaily.my/node/333274
VW betting on EVs
14 October 2015  The focus is on plug-in hybrids with an even greater range,
high-volume electric vehicles with a radius of up to 300 kilometers, a
48-volt power supply system ...



http://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1100466_volkswagen-shifts-gears-vows-to-focus-more-attention-on-electric-cars
Volkswagen Shifts Gears, Vows To Focus More Attention On Electric Cars
By Richard Read  Oct 14, 2015

[image 
http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/2015-volkswagen-golf_100466760_m.jpg
2015 Volkswagen e-Golf
] ...

QUESTIONABLE HISTORY
Volkswagen's less-than-green image isn't  just because of the ongoing
"Dieselgate" scandal that's caused jaws around the world to drop. It's also
because Volkswagen and its family of auto brands -- many of which are
fuel-chugging performance and luxury marques -- have never shown much
interest in moving away from fossil fuels.

For example, the company's former U.S. Audi chief, Johann De Nysschen,
famously called the Chevrolet Volt extended-range electric vehicle a "car
for idiots". (FWIW, De Nysschen now heads Cadillac.) Audi itself has an
electric car program, but it's always seemed a bit like the red-headed
stepchild.

And of course, Volkswagen famously decried the Environmental Protection
Agency's new fuel economy and emissions benchmarks for 2025, insisting that
"there is no consideration in the current proposal for the positive impact
clean diesels can have on fuel consumption here in the US." Oh, the irony.

 ... develop its new MEB platform for compact vehicles. A special "electric
toolkit" for MEB vehicles will be created to allow those cars to be
electrified more easily, with ranges of up to 500 kilometers (310 miles).

The next generation of the loved/loathed VW Phaeton will be completely
electric, "with long-distance capability, connectivity and next-generation
assistance systems as well as an emotional design". Maybe that will help
sales.

But don't let all the electric-car talk fool you: VW isn't giving up on
[ice] vehicles ...
[© 2015 The Car Connection]
...
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/auto/story/vw-looks-to-cutbacks-and-electric-cars-to-overcome-scandal/1/498456.html
VW looks to cutbacks and electric cars to overcome scandal
Reuters | Berlin, October 14, 2015
...
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/16/business/international/volkswagen-germany-recall.html?_r=0
Volkswagen to Recall 8.5 Million Vehicles in Europe (v)
By MELISSA EDDY  OCT. 15, 2015 ... Volkswagen said it would develop electric
vehicles. In the past, the company was slow to adopt such offerings, despite
a pledge by the German government to get a million electric cars on the road
by 2020 ...
...
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=dieselgate
Leonardo DiCaprio working on VW dieselgate movie




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[EVDL] EVent: Plugins& saceva.org @Cal Expo AutoShow 10/16-19 $ Sacramento-CA

2015-10-16 Thread brucedp5 via EV 


http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2015/10/15/stars-of-this-years-sacramento-auto-show-dont-run.html
Stars of this year's Sacramento Auto Show don't run on gasoline
Oct 15, 2015  Mark Anderson ...

Electric cars will be the center of attention at this year's Sacramento Auto
Show.

It’s not unusual for manufacturers to show off electric cars among many
other models, but this year the Sacramento Municipal Utility District is
sponsoring a special display of plug-in electric cars. Sacramento, home to
the regulatory agencies that have created a market for electric cars, is a
leader in electric car adoption.

The auto show runs Friday through Sunday at Cal Expo in all of the venue’s
13 buildings. Electric plug-in cars will be featured in building 2.

About a dozen electric cars will be on static display and about 10 cars will
be available for visitors to ride or drive, said Daniel Gehringer, SMUD’s
program manager for plug-in electric vehicles.

The utility anticipates having 20,000 electric cars in SMUD territory in the
next 10 years, up from about 2,500 now, he said.

Cars on display include a BMW i8 [pih], which combines an electric motor
with a gas engine to produce a 375-horsepower, gull-wing sports car. Also on
display will be electric cars from Tesla, Mercedes, Fiat, Audi, Nisan, Ford,
Chevy and others. Cars available for the ride and drive will include the BMW
i3 [EV], Chevy Volt [pih], Ford Fusion [pih], Nissan Leaf [EV] and Kia Soul
[EV].

The utility installed six fast-charge stations at Cal Expo for the event
this weekend.

The SMUD display will also have members of the Sacramento EV Club on hand to
talk about what it is like to live with an electric car, Gehringer said.
“It’s not a sales pitch. They will talk about what it is like to have an
electric vehicle.”

The utility has been a supporter of electric vehicle research for 25 years,
both to improve local air quality and to reduce dependency on oil. It has
offered special electric vehicle rates since 1993.
[© bizjournals.com]
...
http://sacautoshow.com/Fast_Facts/discounts.html
Sac Auto Show 2015  (916) 635-2728  info @sacautoshow.com
EVs @ building 2, 1600 Exposition Blvd., Sacramento, CA 95815 (map)
https://www.google.com/maps/place/1600+Exposition+Blvd+95815
...
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=plugshare.com+95815
Nearby EVSE
...
http://www.saceva.org/
Sacramento Electric Vehicle Association
https://www.facebook.com/SacEV




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[EVDL] BA degree'd e-trike pedicab'r now hauls uncomplaining dirty socks

2015-10-16 Thread brucedp5 via EV 


'Former pedicab operator with a BA degree, Hussein, now prefers hauling
dirty socks and T-shirts to humans — because they don’t complain'

http://www.mystatesman.com/news/lifestyles/recreation/wash-cycle-laundry-uses-bicycles-for-pickup-and-de/nnxbP/
Wash Cycle Laundry uses bicycles for pickup and delivery
Oct. 9, 2015  By Pam LeBlanc

[images  / Ralph Barrera
http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/715/img/photos/2015/10/07/3c/96/rbz-Wash-Cycle-Laundry-01.jpg
Wash Cycle Laundry is a bicycle-powered laundry delivery and pickup service
in Austin. Cyclist Team Leader Josh Malone makes a delivery and pickup of
laundry at Mantis Massage at 3823 Airport Blvd. on Sept. 16.

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/715/img/photos/2015/10/07/17/8e/rbz-Wash-Cycle-Laundry-05.jpg

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/715/img/photos/2015/10/07/6f/66/rbz-Wash-Cycle-Laundry-07.jpg
]

Pedal-powered service makes it easy to navigate downtown, manager says

When Tim Hussein makes his rounds in downtown Austin [TX], people sometimes
think he’s peddling ice cream.

Instead, he’s pedaling laundry.

Hussein, general manager for Wash Cycle Laundry in Austin, doubles as a
delivery driver for the bicycle-powered laundry service, which started in
Philadelphia in 2010 and expanded last year to Austin and Washington, D.C.
He uses an adult-sized tricycle to pick up dirty clothes, spins over to a
nearby laundry facility, suds things up and zips back with a stack of
freshly laundered garments.

In Philly, the company’s customers have included the Philadelphia Eagles and
a Veterans Administration medical center. Here in Austin, Wash Cycle Laundry
works with members of a University of Texas fraternity, spas and salons, a
dog-grooming business, gyms and a yoga studio.


The company’s bikes are equipped with a roomy cargo hold and a pedal-assist
feature that provides an electric boost — a good thing when you’re hauling
up to 300 pounds of laundry and your bike already weighs 150 pounds.
Austin’s hills and heat just add to the challenge.


“It’s a good workout,” Hussein says.

The bright orange and blue delivery trikes get lots of attention on the
road, most of it good. But not everyone understands how it works.

“Some people think we do the laundry on the bike,” says Gabriel Mandujano,
who founded the company and dropped by Austin recently.

“Or they think we hang the laundry out to dry it off,” says Hussein, a
former pedicab operator who now prefers hauling dirty socks and T-shirts to
humans — because they don’t complain.

Mandujano says the company is committed to sustainability — and that’s part
of the reason it uses bicycles for delivery. Bikes leave a smaller carbon
footprint than trucks or cars, and they’re easier to park downtown than
motor vehicles.

“The question isn’t just, ‘Is it cheaper to move 300 pounds 1 mile on a bike
or a truck?’ Mandujano says. “Using bikes allows us to use (laundry)
facilities closer to our clients.”

And that speeds up the wash-dry-pedal cycle.

Clients pay $1.50 a pound for one-day service, with a 10-pound minimum and
volume discounts. Dry cleaning starts at $2.50 per garment. The service area
is loosely bounded by MoPac Boulevard, Airport Boulevard, 51st Street and
the river, but plans are in the works to expand south of the river.

“All benefits aside, it’s a lot easier to navigate traffic. It’s not just
for brownie points,” Hussein says.
[© 2015 Cox Media]
...
http://www.mystatesman.com/news/lifestyles/recreation/wash-cycle-laundry-uses-bicycles-for-pickup-and-de/nnxbP/#modal-8245851
Wash Cycle Laundry uses bicycles for pickup and delivery
...
http://www.pressreader.com/usa/austin-american-statesman/20151010/282441347920091/TextView
Bike power laundry service



http://www.washcyclelaundry.com/austin
Wash Cycle Laundry will pick up your dirty laundry on a bike and bring it
back clean tomorrow
...
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/tim-hussein/104/720/733
Tim Hussein  General Manager  Wash Cycle Laundry
October 2014 – Present Austin, Texas Area

Pedicabber  Movemint Bike Cab
July 2011 – October 2014 Various Locations

Cyclist  Wash Cycle Laundry
August 2013 – August 2014 Philadelphia, PA

The University of Texas at Arlington
Bachelor of Arts (B.A.), English Language and Literature 2006–2011
[© 2015 linkedin.com]



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[EVDL] EVLN: Tesla-X First Impressions Review

2015-10-16 Thread brucedp5 via EV 


http://www.caradvice.com.au/386746/tesla-model-x-first-impressions-review/
Tesla Model X First Impressions Review
by Derek Fung  [20151012]

[video
https://youtu.be/SZAcR4eUH1M
2016 Tesla Model X Unveiling : The Doors
CarAdvice.com.au Sep 30, 2015
At the launch of the new Tesla Model X SUV, the company demonstrated the
car's falcon wing doors and gave a few more details about how it operates.

In the video above, from the car's official launch, the Model X is wedged
tightly between an Audi Q7 and an American Honda Odyssey. Despite the
limited room on either side, the Model X's falcon wing doors are able to
open.

According to Elon Musk, Tesla's CEO, the company developed a new type of
ultrasonic sensor that delivers sonar capability through metal and avoids
the need for a puck-shaped device, helping to smooth out the car's
controversial aesthetics.

The sensors, as well as the doors' double-hinged nature, allow the car's
falcon-wing portals to adjust their opening arc to accommodate both a lack
of space to the sides, as well as a lack of space above the vehicle. As Musk
was at pains to point, traditional gull-wing doors are single hinged.


images  
http://s3.caradvice.com.au/thumb/640/348/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/tesla-model-x-founder-20.jpg

http://s3.caradvice.com.au/thumb/640/348/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Tesla-Model-X-Unveiling-the-doors-CA.jpg

http://s3.caradvice.com.au/thumb/960/500/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/tesla-model-x-founder-18.jpg

http://s3.caradvice.com.au/thumb/640/348/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/tesla-model-x-founder-15.jpg

http://s3.caradvice.com.au/thumb/640/348/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/tesla-model-x-founder-16.jpg

http://s3.caradvice.com.au/thumb/640/348/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/tesla-model-x-founder-17.jpg

http://s3.caradvice.com.au/thumb/960/500/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/tesla-model-x-founder-14.jpg

http://s3.caradvice.com.au/thumb/960/500/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/tesla-model-x-founder-10.jpg

http://s3.caradvice.com.au/thumb/640/348/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/tesla-model-x-founder-7.jpg

http://s3.caradvice.com.au/thumb/640/348/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/tesla-model-x-founder-4.jpg

http://s3.caradvice.com.au/thumb/640/348/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/tesla-model-x-founder-5.jpg

http://s3.caradvice.com.au/thumb/960/500/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/tesla-model-x-founder-2.jpg

http://s3.caradvice.com.au/thumb/640/348/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/tesla-model-x-founder-1.jpg
]

The Tesla Model X has launched at last, and while there is much for fans to
be excited about, it hasn’t been all smooth sailing for the new electric
SUV.

Revealed first as a concept in 2012, the final production car was initially
due to go on sale in 2013. Development delays pushed that launch out first
to 2014, and then again to 2015. Third time’s the charm, it seems with the
Model X making its US market debut last week.

CarAdvice was on the ground in California to see Tesla founder Elon Musk
unveil the Model X and to be among the first to see the new electric SUV in
the metal.

While the Tesla Model S is, by general consensus, a handsome hatchback
disguised as a sedan, the Model X is a little more polarising. Impressions
from the earlier concept were not flattering, with the Model S’ design
aesthetic not coping well with the X’s extra height.

In the flesh, the production version of the Model X is a little more
appealing, but we’re definitely not rushing to affix adjectives, like
‘beautiful’ or ‘handsome’, to it.

Due to circumstances beyond our control, we weren’t given any time behind
the wheel of the Model X, although we were given a brief ride in the car
around the back lot of Tesla’s California headquarters.

Despite the fact that our driver didn’t floor the accelerator fully, the X
felt impressively quick for a vehicle that weighs 2468 kilograms.

At launch, two models are offered: the Model X 90D and P90D. The 90D has a
193kW motor for the front wheels, and another 193kW unit for the rear axle.
The P90D has an unchanged front motor, while at the rear there’s a more
powerful 375kW engine.

According to Tesla, the 90D can cover the 0-60mph (0-97km/h) sprint in 4.8
seconds and hit a top speed of 250km/h.

The P90D reduces that time to 3.8 seconds, but P90D buyers who feel they
have the need for more speed can pony up an extra US$10,000 for the ability
to access Ludicrous Mode, which can decimate the 0-60mph dash in 3.2
seconds.

In the US, the Model X 90D has an estimated range of 414 kilometres, while
the P90D is capable of 404km on a full charge. By way of comparison, the
Model S P90D is quoted with a range of around 431km.

The fully optioned Signature Edition models that will trundle down the
production first ride on 22-inch alloy wheels with 265/35 tyres up front and
285/35 rubber at the rear. On Elon Musk’s version, which we spent some time
with, the alloy wheels have a matte black finish.

As a piece of theatre, the Model X’s ‘Falcon Wing’ doors are impressive.
With through-the-metal

Re: [EVDL] Emotorworks (Juicebox) lack of customer support

2015-10-16 Thread Chris Tromley via EV 
Thanks for this.  I was getting ready to pull the trigger on a juicebox
myself.  As a perpetual electrical noob I can't afford an EVSE at an
attractive price that has no support.

Chris

On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 4:06 PM, Ken Olum via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> At the end of June I bought the JuiceBox 40 Pro EVSE from Emotorwerks.
> I paid $600, and I think that's enough that I'm entitled to a little
> customer support.  But I've 4 sent requests to their support address and
> never received a satisfactory answer.  In some cases I got a reply, but
> the reply was "so-and-so is the expert on this and will get back to you
> and answer your question" and then I never heard from so-and-so.
>
> Before sending this message, I complained to them about the fact that I
> wasn't getting any support, and that complaint also went unanswered.
>
> So, at this point, I feel I should warn other EV drivers not to buy from
> Emotorwerks if you want to be able to ask any questions or get any help
> with your equipment.  I'm sorry to do it.  I thought this was a
> promising company with an interesting piece of equipment at an
> attractive price.
>
> They are very proud of the fact that it's open source.  Anyone know
> where to find the source?  I guess I should read it if I ever want to
> get an answer to my main question, which is "How does the unit manage
> the charging current limit in cases where the connection to
> Emotorwerks's servers is not completely reliable?"
>
> Ken Olum
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Re: [EVDL] VW responds to diesel scandal, says “the future is electric” | Ars Technica

2015-10-16 Thread Mark Abramowitz via EV 
If by EV, the author means battery electrics only, the information is 
questionable. VW has been spending lots on fuel cell development  (Ballard had 
contract with them for this work). Note that in this area, I've seen VW say one 
thing, but do something completely different.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 15, 2015, at 7:09 PM, Ben Goren via EV  wrote:
> 
> If this is to be believed...it could be absolutely huge! Anybody here have 
> any further information and / or insight?
> 
> http://arstechnica.com/cars/2015/10/vw-responds-to-diesel-scandal-says-the-future-is-electric/
> 
> If it turns out the way I'm sure all us here would hope it would, those 
> "rogue engineers" would be deserving of a Peace Prize.
> 
> (And I guarantee you, the engineers did not take it upon themselves to do 
> this sort of thing...at the very least, management made plain that they 
> didn't give a damn how the tests were passed and the engineers would be out 
> of work if the tests weren't passed. If you ever find yourself in a similar 
> position, quit then and there, because you can be sure that management is 
> setting you up to take the fall.)
> 
> b&
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> 
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Re: [EVDL] Emotorworks (Juicebox) lack of customer support

2015-10-16 Thread Willie2 via EV 

On 10/15/2015 03:06 PM, Ken Olum via EV wrote:

Before sending this message, I complained to them about the fact that I
wasn't getting any support, and that complaint also went unanswered.

I now have four JuiceBoxes, two under the KickStarter project, as well 
as a 10kw charger.  I've had some trouble three or four times and also 
found their service lacking.  I've chalked it up to growing pains.  They 
have eventually fixed most of my problems.  I think I have wifi on all 
my JBs but I've given up trying to use it.  One major, for me, problem 
is that the display they use on chargers and the premium JBs is very 
difficult to read.  Very small and poor contrast.  The radio key fob 
required for configuring premium JBs seems like an almost certain future 
failure point.


All in all, I consider their products to be good values.

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Re: [EVDL] VW responds to diesel scandal, says “the future is electric” | Ars Technica

2015-10-16 Thread EVDL Administrator via EV 
On 15 Oct 2015 at 22:32, brucedp5 via EV wrote:

> I was thinking, there could be a lot of diesel ice coming available for
> conversion because of VW's cheat.

Wouldn't that be nice?  But I suspect that VW will have to fix them all.  
The cost will be in the billions.  

I read one source that implied that VW might have to fit them with urea 
tanks and injectors, at least in some countries.  In any case, their 
performance and efficiency will suffer.  (Ironically, when they reduce NOx 
output this way, the car's CO2 output increases because of the reduced 
efficiency.)

I suspect that the EPA won't let them off the hook.  They'll have to bring 
every single car up to spec, even those for which it's not cost effective. 

So, I think it's not too likely that the affected cars will end up available 
for conversion.  

I don't know whether VW has (or will have) an option to simply buy the 
defective vehicles from their owners and take them off the road.  Even if 
they do, I can't see them stripping out the running gear and selling these 
cars to EV converters.  They'd most likely have to prove to the regulators 
that the cars could never again be used as Diesels.  The surest and easiest 
way to do that is to crush them.

But you never know, I guess. 

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Emotorworks (Juicebox) lack of customer support

2015-10-16 Thread EVDL Administrator via EV 
On 15 Oct 2015 at 16:06, Ken Olum via EV wrote:

> main question ...  is "How does the unit manage the charging current
> limit in cases where the connection to Emotorwerks's servers is not
> completely reliable?" 

>From their webpage, this appears to be a home EVSE.  So it's not a matter of 
billing someone for electricity.  Given that, my questions would be:

1. Why does it need to talk to their servers at all?  
2. Why doesn't it have enough onboard processing power to charge an EV?
3. What happens to it if Emotorworks goes out of business?

IMO, if you "buy" a product that won't work properly without its 
manufacturer's servers being available to it online, you haven't bought it. 
You've bought a temporary, revocable right to use it as directed by the 
manufacturer, for as long as they want you to.  If they decide that the 
product is obsolete and they want you to buy a new one, they can just tell 
it to stop working.  If they go out of business, the gadget quits working 
regardless, at least at the feature level advertised.

If they've encrypted its software (many do) and you reverse-engineer it to 
get it working again, or to make it work the way you want it to, you're in 
violation of the DMCA and they can sic the law on you.

The nice thing about EV conversions is that they don't need fancy $600 
networked online charging cords.  They do just fine with a $50 SJ cord and 
plug, and a 240v or 120v receptacle.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] OT: Toyota aims to nearly eliminate gasoline cars by 2050

2015-10-16 Thread EVDL Administrator via EV 
On 16 Oct 2015 at 7:53, Ben Goren via EV wrote:

> Toyota's fool cells, of course, haven't a prayer.

You might well have said the same thing about gasoline cars in the early 
years of the 20th century.  Compared to EVs, they were noisy, stinky, and 
unreliable.  The fuel was hard to get, and dangerous to store.

But look what happened.

The same thing could happen with hydrogen and fuel cells, if the right 
people and corporations stand to make obscene amounts of money from it.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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[EVDL] OT: Toyota aims to nearly eliminate gasoline cars by 2050

2015-10-16 Thread Ben Goren via EV 
Off-topic because EVs aren't what they're switching to.

http://phys.org/news/2015-10-toyota-aims-gasoline-cars.html

Between VW and now Toyota, the big automakers are signaling that we're now 
officially at the end of the ICE era and that the transition to a post-ICE 
world has begun.

Toyota's fool cells, of course, haven't a prayer. Who's going to want a car 
that you have to go somewhere (that doesn't actually exist today) to pay to 
fill up when all the other cars already charge at home for free?

But riffing off the speculation in the other thread about retrofitting VW 
diesels with electric drivetrains...would I be correct in thinking that such a 
retrofit would be a lot easier with a fool cell? You've already got the 
electric motor for propulsion; rip out the H2 tank and the fool cell itself and 
fill that space with batteries and you've got a real EV.

b&
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Re: [EVDL] Emotorworks (Juicebox) customer support

2015-10-16 Thread Jay Summet via EV 
I also just purchased a JuceBox Pro 40. It worked exactly as it was 
supposed to, the (android app) is simple but works exactly as it is 
supposed to, and when I asked them to send me an invoice via email they 
got back to me within 24 hours.


I have not asked any technical questions, but my experience with the 
product and customer support have been fine so far.


My understanding is that once you set the charging amp limit, it will 
not change until you modify the setting again.


Jay Summet

The only downside I see with the JuiceBox is that it is (not yet) UL 
Certified, although they claim to be undergoing that multi-month long 
certification process now.  This is disclosed on the website if you look.



On 10/16/2015 06:41 AM, Chris Tromley via EV wrote:

Thanks for this.  I was getting ready to pull the trigger on a juicebox
myself.  As a perpetual electrical noob I can't afford an EVSE at an
attractive price that has no support.

Chris

On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 4:06 PM, Ken Olum via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:


At the end of June I bought the JuiceBox 40 Pro EVSE from Emotorwerks.
I paid $600, and I think that's enough that I'm entitled to a little
customer support.  But I've 4 sent requests to their support address and
never received a satisfactory answer.  In some cases I got a reply, but
the reply was "so-and-so is the expert on this and will get back to you
and answer your question" and then I never heard from so-and-so.

Before sending this message, I complained to them about the fact that I
wasn't getting any support, and that complaint also went unanswered.

So, at this point, I feel I should warn other EV drivers not to buy from
Emotorwerks if you want to be able to ask any questions or get any help
with your equipment.  I'm sorry to do it.  I thought this was a
promising company with an interesting piece of equipment at an
attractive price.

They are very proud of the fact that it's open source.  Anyone know
where to find the source?  I guess I should read it if I ever want to
get an answer to my main question, which is "How does the unit manage
the charging current limit in cases where the connection to
Emotorwerks's servers is not completely reliable?"

 Ken Olum
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Re: [EVDL] OT: Toyota aims to nearly eliminate gasoline cars by 2050

2015-10-16 Thread Ben Goren via EV 
On Oct 16, 2015, at 8:35 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> 
wrote:

> Compared to EVs, they were noisy, stinky, and
> unreliable.  The fuel was hard to get, and dangerous to store.

But there're a lot of big differences today. For one, the whole field of 
vehicles was brand-new -- as was the electric grid. For another, oil was 
literally dirt cheap; be careless with a pickaxe in Texas and you'd set off a 
gusher. The big one was the energy density of batteries...we just now, well 
over a century later, have batteries that are _barely_ up to the task of being 
built into competitive vehicles, even as the density of gasoline still stomps 
all over batteries. Back in the day, with lead acid and iron-nickel the 
bleeding edge of technology, there's just no way that you could even have 
pretended to have made intercity trips or plowed a field or the like with 
batteries -- but, even then, that was trivial with gasoline.

Today, you can buy a new electric vehicle at some of your local dealers. You 
can charge it at home for, with rounding, free. Huge numbers of people do so, 
and the most-talked-about cars these days, from Tesla, are all electric.

Are there even any fool cell vehicles for sale anywhere in the States? I'm sure 
there aren't any H2 stations anywhere near me -- maybe not even within range of 
the vehicle. What's the cost of H2 at the pump in those nonexistent places you 
can't get it? Are there any fool cell vehicles as cheap and as nice as my 
parents's $14K 2013 Leaf? Are there any as sexy as a Tesla? Who's racing fool 
cells -- where's the NEDRA equivalent, an Eva in her fastest-sidecar-on-Earth, 
or a Formula E? Stop people on the street; all will have heard of Tesla and 
will know about EVs...but how many are even aware that Toyota has plans to sell 
cars that run on hydrogen?

It's stil early enough in the game that a concerted effort could submarine EVs 
in favor of fool cells...but that window is closing fast, and is already almost 
closed. Indeed, VW may have just slammed it shut.

b&
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Re: [EVDL] Emotorworks (Juicebox) customer support

2015-10-16 Thread EVDL Administrator via EV 
On 16 Oct 2015 at 21:52, jerry freedomev via EV wrote:

> Since all those I saw on their website have AC plugs meaning San  Jose
> or Alameda have no jurisdiction on it.  

I am not familiar with this device, but IIRC NEC regulations over EV home  
charging were added in the EV1 era.  AFAIK, it was the first time that any 
cord and plug connected device had been regulated by the NEC.  Perhaps that 
would serve as a (concerning) precedent for regulating this situation.

As an end user, UL approval ensures you that the device you're using has 
passed tests that stress it, without catching your house or garage on fire, 
or hurting someone.  It's worth having, IMO.  If it weren't, cheap Chinese 
appliance makers wouldn't bother to counterfeit the mark!

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] OT: Toyota aims to nearly eliminate gasoline cars by 2050

2015-10-16 Thread dovepa via EV 
Fuel cells still burn fossil fuels. Hydrogen is made from natural gas 
currently. Oil companies are just trying to stay in the market IMO


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message 
From: Ben Goren via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> Date: 10/16/2015  10:45 AM  
(GMT-06:00) To: EVDL Administrator <evp...@drmm.net>, Electric Vehicle 
Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: Toyota aims to 
nearly eliminate gasoline cars by 2050 
On Oct 16, 2015, at 8:35 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> 
wrote:

> Compared to EVs, they were noisy, stinky, and
> unreliable.  The fuel was hard to get, and dangerous to store.

But there're a lot of big differences today. For one, the whole field of 
vehicles was brand-new -- as was the electric grid. For another, oil was 
literally dirt cheap; be careless with a pickaxe in Texas and you'd set off a 
gusher. The big one was the energy density of batteries...we just now, well 
over a century later, have batteries that are _barely_ up to the task of being 
built into competitive vehicles, even as the density of gasoline still stomps 
all over batteries. Back in the day, with lead acid and iron-nickel the 
bleeding edge of technology, there's just no way that you could even have 
pretended to have made intercity trips or plowed a field or the like with 
batteries -- but, even then, that was trivial with gasoline.

Today, you can buy a new electric vehicle at some of your local dealers. You 
can charge it at home for, with rounding, free. Huge numbers of people do so, 
and the most-talked-about cars these days, from Tesla, are all electric.

Are there even any fool cell vehicles for sale anywhere in the States? I'm sure 
there aren't any H2 stations anywhere near me -- maybe not even within range of 
the vehicle. What's the cost of H2 at the pump in those nonexistent places you 
can't get it? Are there any fool cell vehicles as cheap and as nice as my 
parents's $14K 2013 Leaf? Are there any as sexy as a Tesla? Who's racing fool 
cells -- where's the NEDRA equivalent, an Eva in her fastest-sidecar-on-Earth, 
or a Formula E? Stop people on the street; all will have heard of Tesla and 
will know about EVs...but how many are even aware that Toyota has plans to sell 
cars that run on hydrogen?

It's stil early enough in the game that a concerted effort could submarine EVs 
in favor of fool cells...but that window is closing fast, and is already almost 
closed. Indeed, VW may have just slammed it shut.

b&
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