Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GM recalls 64k Volt pih over carbon monoxide risk 2 injuries
On 14 Mar 2015 at 1:45, brucedp5 via EV wrote: There are still several hundred unsold '13 Volts on dealer lots. And I'll bet those dealers are trying REALLY HARD to sell those cars. :-\ David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Battery Swap - the stupid idea that wont die...
On 13 Mar 2015 at 13:57, Larry Gales via EV wrote: you don't need to have all manufacturers adhere to a common standard (though that would be nice), but a major manufacturer such as Tesla could have their on swap stations that serve their own type of vehicles. Sorry, I have to disagree. I just don't see it working without some kind of standard. Can you imagine what refueling your ICEV would be like today if a time traveler to 1900 accidentally stepped on a butterfly, and today, every car made required a different blend of fuel? = The automakers, not the petroleum companies, would own the filling stations. = Every brand of auto could only use its own filling stations. You wouldn't get another choice. = Even at your brand of station, you'd have to make sure you used the right pump or mixture setting for your year and model. = When the automaker decided that your car was too old to bother supporting any more, they'd just stop selling fuel for it. (You'd have to mix your own fuel, a step beyond today's collectors who mix lead substitute into the fuel for their antique ICEVs.) = You wouldn't have a filling station on every corner as you do today, because there wouldn't be room in the cities. = Price competition would be just about nil. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Watch Malfunctioning meter. on YouTube
If it wasn't for the possibly coincidental sunlight, I would say it looks like an electromechanical voltage regulator in action. A regulator might go as high as 14 and change, and when it stops charging the battery voltage shows and is load dependent - not steady. The change is kind of fast to be a thermal effect of the sunlight on plastic (not very conductive). Usually instrumentation amps for voltage are not that susceptible to changes in ambient temperature. How could be simply the light intensity? I don't have a feel for that. You could mess around with an ice pack or a bottle of chip freezer spray and see if the change goes the other direction. On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 5:55 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Malfunctioning meter.: https://youtu.be/xNy8IOlRkII This is the correct url. Lawrence Rhodes -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150317/0d32c3cf/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150317/fe0151c1/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Watch Malfunctioning meter. on YouTube
Malfunctioning meter.: http://youtu.be/xNy8IOlRkI I bought this Enova meter to monitor my diesel battery. Can anyone explain wxhat is happening? Lawrence Rhodes -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150317/9b72df0e/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Watch Malfunctioning meter. on YouTube
Malfunctioning meter.: https://youtu.be/xNy8IOlRkII This is the correct url. Lawrence Rhodes -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150317/0d32c3cf/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVLN: What it is actually like to drive electric vehicles in Ireland
http://www.siliconrepublic.com/clean-tech/item/41098-ev-rider-what-is-it/ EV rider: What is it actually like to drive electric vehicles in Ireland? 11.03.2015 Colm Gorey [images http://www.siliconrepublic.com/fs/img/Nissan-Leaf.jpg The Nissan Leaf is Ireland's most popular EV by a considerable margin. Image via Nissan http://www.siliconrepublic.com/fs/img/Charging-point.jpg An ominous message as I charged my Nissan Leaf in Cahir, Co Tipperary http://www.siliconrepublic.com/fs/img/ESB-charge-point.png A standard AC charge point opposite Hueston Station, Dublin. No designated parking space is currently marked here http://www.siliconrepublic.com/fs/img/Charge-points.png A map of Ireland's current AC (green), DC fast-charging (blue), hotel charging points (yellow) and ones that are out of order (purple) / Shutterstock ] With Tesla’s electric vehicles (EVs) garnering more attention than EVs ever have before, EVs in Ireland are still seen as being in their experimental stage. What is it actually like to own one in the country? Since I’ve been testing EVs for Siliconrepublic.com, it’s been a rather interesting ride to say the least, and there’s no pardoning of that pun in this case. Moments of amazement at their high rate of acceleration, quietness and ability to raise intrigue are balanced with constant looking at your battery gauge, struggles to find a charging point that hasn’t been blocked by a fossil-fuel powered car and a sense that turning your heater up to the third bar could be the deciding factor in whether you’re car’s battery is going to make it home or not. Of course, the current generation of EVs have come a long way in the last number of years and, as mentioned before, the likes of Tesla are doing a damn fine job in making EVs appear cool, where once they were considered a pie-in-the-sky dream that could never replace the 100-year-old engines that are powered by dinosaurs’ remains. Incentives galore Certainly, from an Irish perspective, the current Government and electricity provider ESB are making it rather attractive to those looking to buy a new car to go green not just from an environmental perspective, but also in your wallet. No other type of vehicle on the road is as subsidised by the Government as EVs are. Just for owning one of the 10 currently on the market, an EV buyer gets €5,000 knocked off the price with the help of a grant from the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland (SEAI), no vehicle registration tax (VRT), free public charging (for the time being), all of which is almost a necessity given the, quite frankly, high costs of EVs currently. So why are the Government throwing money at you to make the EV switch? It’s quite simple; Ireland have made some bold promises and it’s desperate to keep them. As a nation, we are one of the lowest buyers of EVs in Europe and in 2013 we only sold a little over 50 EVs in the entire country but despite this, we did see a 200pc last year with 256 sales recorded for 2014. And yet here we are in 2015 and the Irish Government has put in place plans to magically have 250,000 EVs on our roads in five years’ time which is ambitious, and arguably foolish, to say the least. Charging availability, to a point Certainly, at the moment, ESB Networks have established a charging point network that from the outside appears to more than meet the needs of the current number of EVs with nearly three points in the country for every car. Of course, if there is to really be some evangelical moment where every person suddenly decides to trade in their car for an EV, there would need to be significant up-scaling of the network. The man at the helm of expanding Ireland’s EV charging infrastructure is Donal Herraghty, technology programme manager at ESB eCars who when speaking to me says that Ireland lays claim to being one of the best supported EV infrastructures not just in Ireland, but the world in terms of fast DC charging which is vital to the country’s view of making EVs a mode of national transport, not just cities. “A lot of countries tend to start offering EVs, giving out a load of incentives and then trying to meet demand as it comes. We wanted to make sure people could travel around the country and have access to public infrastructure as well as in their own home,” Herraghty says. “The idea is that you could travel from Dublin to Galway and every 60km you’d have a fast charger.” From my own experiences, I had little to fault the system that is place with each charger performing as expected, to much relief as someone with crippling ‘range anxiety’. But I’m just someone who tests the cars, what about someone who drives one every day? ICEd to meet you “Where the ESB is concerned, I personally feel that they’re doing good work, but that’s probably not a universal view,” says Frank Barr, chairperson of the Irish EV Owners Committee, an organisation set up by Irish EV owners to lobby the ESB for improvements as well as giving
[EVDL] EVLN: GM sez unveiling 2016 Spark EV @NYSeoul shows on 4/2
http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-83013273/ Chevy to unveil 2016 Spark By Charles Fleming March 9, 2015 General Motors said it will unveil a 2016 Chevrolet Spark on April 2 at concurrent auto shows in New York and Seoul. The subcompact is being repositioned as a sleeker, more aerodynamic vehicle, the company said, aiming for a customer interested in a more traditional design. Could a new Spark electric vehicle be part of the 2016 lineup? GM won't say. The Spark news comes less than two months after GM's announcement that it will build the new Chevy Bolt, an electric car that can travel 200 miles between charges and sell in the low $30,000 range, after government incentives. GM executives said the spacious four-door hatchback Bolt will go on sale in 2017. That announcement charged up auto industry spectators, who predicted such a vehicle could easily sell 100,000 units a year and make electric vehicles a real alternative for many American drivers. The Bolt will join an expected improved version of the Chevy Volt. The two vehicles, plus a Spark EV, could strengthen GM's position among U.S. electric vehicle producers. GM said it has sold 1.1 million Sparks, globally, since introducing the subcompact, in India, in 2009. The company sells more Sparks in South Korea than anywhere else -- which explains why Seoul is one of the unveiling platforms -- followed by the U.S. and Mexico, the company said. GM unveiled the first electric Spark in 2012, at the Los Angeles Auto Show. The first version, a model year 2013, offered 130 horsepower and 400 pound-feet of torque, and was advertised as one of the fastest electric vehicles on the market. Stateside, the 2015 Spark EV has a starting MSRP of just under $20,000, excluding tax and destination charges. It boasts a range of 82 miles between charges. GM did not release pricing information on the 2016 model. Though non-hybrid electric vehicles have struggled to find a place in the U.S. car market, the segment is increasingly crowded with consumer choices. Top drawer Tesla's Model S has been joined at the high end by the BMW i3 and the Mercedes-Benz B-class sedans, while at the middle to lower end of the price spread are less expensive electrics like the Nissan Leaf, Kia Soul, Toyota RAV 4 EV, Fiat 500e, Volkswagen e-GOlf, Ford Focus Electric and Mitsubishi i-MiEV. [© latimes.com] ... http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-chevy-2016-spark-20150309-story.html Chevy to unveil 2016 Spark By CHARLES FLEMING [20150309] http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/chevrolet-teases-2016-spark-ahead-auto-show-debut Chevrolet teases 2016 Spark ahead of New York auto show debut March 10, 2015 Justine Woodard will feature a “sleeker, more aerodynamic profile.” ... Chevy also offers an all-electric Spark EV ... [dated] http://autoweek.com/article/car-reviews/2014-chevrolet-spark-ev-review-notes 2014 Chevrolet Spark EV review notes November 7, 2013 DIGITAL EDITOR ANDREW STOY: Taste being subjective, I'll posit that a powder-blue Spark, powertrain independent, is not the kind of thing bound to get enthusiast blood running. Rather, it's possibly the least appealing vehicle color/shape combo I've encountered in quite some time. My first instinct was to walk slowly around the vehicle (it still only takes a second due to the car's diminutive size) and sort of poke the outside to make sure it was actually metal. Upon determining the Spark EV was in fact a real car, and that I was about to take part in what essentially served as a phase in our exciting electrified future transportation experiment, some semblance of acceptance set in. The interior contributes to the toy-like aura: Sitting in the Spark EV is sort of what I'd imagine being inside an MM might be like. With its baby blue accents and shiny, hard plastics, you've got a candy coating surrounding the occupants. A digital display screen replaces the speedo/LCD combo directly in front of the driver, and Chevy's excellent MyLink system lives in the center stack. One complaint -- give me a volume knob, not “touch up/touch down” buttons for the audio. There's also no rear-view camera -- it may not seem an issue at first considering the driver can basically reach out of the back hatch, but the parcel shelf is quite high obscuring most of the view in the first few feet behind the vehicle. Those quibbles aside, the Spark EV offers the same excellent outward visibility as the standard model with a high seating position and tons of glass. The climate control works particularly well, with rapid warm-up and an air conditioner that felt capable of cooling a Chevy Suburban. Granted, both sap some of your range, but if comfort is a priority the Spark EV will happily deliver. Out on the road, the Spark EV is a much more entertaining driver than the standard gasoline model, largely due to the huge electric torque on tap. With torque and front drive comes torque steer, but I found the throttle very easy to
[EVDL] EVLN: From plodding ice to Leaf encounter surprising, intriguing, quiet
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/mar/09/nissan-leaf-clean-set-of-wheels Nissan Leaf review: a clean set of wheels Lucy Rock 9 March 2015 [images / Richard Saker http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-1430/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/3/5/1425559841227/6d1f3878-7d7e-4f41-8994-e3fc5e018160-1020x612.jpeg The Nissan Leaf ‘glow in the dark car’ photographed in Blackheath, London UK http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-1430/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/3/2/1425310312901/f6874d44-63d5-4136-ac86-43c819e59866-2060x1236.jpeg Lucy Rock at the wheel http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-1430/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/3/5/1425560462928/8a5ed610-c1cc-4b44-bc95-314083c304b5-2060x1236.jpeg The Nissan Leaf ] The luminous paintwork on an all-electric Nissan Leaf turned heads, while its nippy performance and zero emissions are ideal for the city It’s 20 years since a car I was driving turned heads (a fire-engine red, turbo-charged Audi Quattro à la Gene Hunt in Ashes to Ashes). My current clapped-out people carrier is a metal workhorse that drinks diesel and plods around anonymously, dropping off and picking up children, carrying loads of shopping and taking stuff to the dump. But here I am in a glow-in-the-dark electric car that glides along in near silence, surprising and intriguing those I encounter. I didn’t mean to scare the twentysomething lad swaying slightly on his way home after pub closing, texting intently. He wouldn’t have heard me coming so when he looked up, there I was – whoosh! – a large, luminous green object right in front of him. His eyes widened momentarily as he stumbled, grazing the elbow of an elderly man walking two bull terriers who looked equally flummoxed to see me in the dimly lit suburban street. I’ve not driven an electric car before. But this Nissan Leaf is so relaxing to drive, it practically does it for you. Press a button (keys are so last week), put your foot down and you purr off. There’s every mod con: heated seats; cameras that generate a 360-degree overhead image on a dashboard screen to show how badly you’re reverse parking; a voice telling you there’s a speed camera in 200 yards. My children are impressed. “It’s so clean Mum,” shouts my four-year-old. She wasn’t referring to the car’s zero emissions, rather the lack of crumbs, old wrappers and half-done sticker books that litter the back seats of the workhorse. They think the car is “cool”, particularly the paintwork. Despite the Leaf not being a particularly cool shape in an E-type Jag kind of way, I agree. And it feels good knowing you’re not belching gunk out of the exhaust. It’s also nippy. Other drivers who think it’s a weedy competitor on the road are surprised at the speed it can take off from traffic lights (0-60mph in 11.5 seconds, with a top speed of 90mph). The paint absorbs UV energy during the day so that it glows for 10 hours when the sun goes down. It was created for Nissan from organic materials – sadly it’s not yet commercially available but maybe one day hi-vis cars will be a useful option for remote areas without much street lighting. I had worried about how long the battery would last. Fully charged, you can go for 120 miles, according to Nissan. And when you’re running low, the dashboard tells you where the nearest charging station is and how to get there. It’s perfect for city driving. For longer trips, I’d plan a coffee stop at a service station with a quick charger, which delivers 50KW of current to the battery, replenishing 80% of its capacity in 30 minutes. I think once the workhorse has gone to the knacker’s yard, I’ll switch to electric. SHOT IN THE DARK Finding a suitable location in south-east London was difficult as I couldn’t shoot on a street because any ambient lights would negate the glow of the car. So I plumped for the wide expanses of Blackheath in southeast London; no barriers and large enough to avoid light pollution. The camera was on a tripod and we did a time exposure of about 10 seconds at an aperture of f/8 at ISO 250. In some shots, two flashguns were positioned to light the grass behind the car to emphasise a sense of place but we did not want to have any of this light aimed at the car. The main obstacle was that the wheels do not glow in the dark, so during a normal time exposure they would just appear black and the car would look like it was floating. So I got around this by aiming a torchlight at the alloy wheels for five seconds each during the 10-second time exposure – effectively we were painting in light on the wheel with a torch. [© theguardian.com] http://insideevs.com/nissan-officially-welcomes-e-nv200-combi-electric-vans-electric-car-stable-headed-leaf/ Nissan Officially Welcomes e-NV200 Combi Electric Vans To Electric Car Stable Headed By LEAF [20150312] by Eric Loveday ...
Re: [EVDL] Battery Swap - the stupid idea that wont die...
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Re: [EVDL] Watch Malfunctioning meter. on YouTube
Cor van de Water wrote: Electronic circuits (The silicon wafer that carries the transistors and other circuitry) is affected in its operation by light. That's a good possibility. Note that *any* semiconductor on the board (the micro, other chips, transistors, diodes, and even LEDs) might be the light-sensitive culprit. I once had a board that used a common zener diode as its voltage reference for the power supply. The zener was in a clear glass case, typical of inexpensive 1N52xx family zeners. When sunlight hit that zener, its voltage changed. Since it was the power supply's reference, that changed the voltage of the power supply, throwing everything else off. Older products used to use EPROMs. You were supposed to cover the window on top (which was there to erase the part if it ever needed to be reprogrammed). But people often left it open. Sunlight hitting the chip inside could not only erase the memory; but would cause errors long before the exposure was enough to actually erase it. As someone else observed, it's also possible that the product has a light sensor to adjust the backlight or display brightness to compensate for bright ambient light. If the power supply is weak, then sunlight could command more brightness than the wimpy power supply could supply. I've seen this happen with the Cruising Equipment/Heart Interface/Xantrex E-meter/Link10 family of meters. -- We cannot waste time. We can only waste ourselves. -- George Matthew Adams -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeah...@earthlink.net ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Battery Swap - the stupid idea that wont die...
Jorg Brown wrote: Fundamentally the problem is economics: in a car you have a $100 tank that you're filling up with $50 of fuel. But in an EV, you have a $40,000 pack that you're filling up with $5 of fuel. Ben Goren via EV wrote: That's...that's an excellent observation that puts it in a perspective I've never thought about before. And you're right. Battery swaps likely won't make economic sense until traction batteries cost as much as today's starter batteries... However, fork lift batteries cost many thousands of dollars. And they weigh many times more than an EV pack. And yet they *do* routinely swap them anyway. They do it simply because it makes economic sense. The forklift itself is even more expensive. They would rather have a spare pack (with one on charge, and one in use) so that forklift can be busy full-time. -- We cannot waste time. We can only waste ourselves. -- George Matthew Adams -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeah...@earthlink.net ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Battery Swap - the stupid idea that wont die...
A long time ago, I ate dinner with Martin Eberhard, and the subject of battery swap came up. He was incredibly dismissive of the idea. He said the first problem is safety: to pass the required safety standards, you've got to attach the pack very, very firmly - a problem you don't have with things like Fundamentally the problem is economics: in a car you have a $100 tank that you're filling up with $50 of fuel. But in an EV, you have a $40,000 pack that you're filling up with $5 of fuel. And that's just crazy. Swapping an old pack for a new one means you might get an increase of $20,000 in value for the $20 cost of a swap. In the 8 years since that dinner, the price of a pack has gone down, and the price of the electricity up, but the imbalance is still there: you're filling a $20,000 tank with $10 of electrons. It makes almost as much sense to just swap out the car. One thing I'll never forget: his comment about Shai. Shai Agassi is leading the fight for battery swap not because it's a good idea, but because he has incredible charisma. And in the end, that will be incredibly important, because battery swapping is going to fail and he'll need every ounce of that charisma to convince people to go in a new direction On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 9:38 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I always wondered why someone as smart as Tesla would stoop to the stupidest idea ever (battery swapping) for highway EV’s. Surely they understood EV’s enough to know that EV’s generally charge while parked, not while in use. But then Superchargers make it possible for distant convenient travel… So how could Tesla be so dumb to invest in “battery swap”… The answer, is smarter than we thought… http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1097214_tesla-battery-swapping-useful-service-or-minimal-effort-for-extra-income It looks like all they had to do was demonstrate ONE working battery-swap station and then they got full extra credit for the California State requirement for full-range-replenishment in under 10 minutes. They met that goal (one station) and then collected $66,000,000 in EV credits! -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150317/d0030aa7/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Battery Swap - the stupid idea that wont die...
On Mar 17, 2015, at 3:21 PM, Jorg Brown via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Fundamentally the problem is economics: in a car you have a $100 tank that you're filling up with $50 of fuel. But in an EV, you have a $40,000 pack that you're filling up with $5 of fuel. That's...that's an excellent observation that puts it in a perspective I've never thought about before. And you're right. Battery swaps likely won't make economic sense until traction batteries cost as much as today's starter batteries...but, by the time that comes to pass we'll have long since solved any recharging problems without resorting to battery swaps. Tesla's robot-swappable batteries would make perfect sense for professional racing. Instead of a pit stop to fill with gas, you have a pit stop to swap batteries. And, presumably, change tires and whatever else needs to be done. It likely also makes the mechanic's job much easier. If they've taken similar approaches to other major components, they could conceivably use labor with minimal technical skills (and, of course, this being Tesla, high-powered people skills) in service stations. Something's worng with the car? Get it to the official Tesla shop, the mechanic plugs in to read where the problem is...undoes some fasteners, positions the magic robot, and a few minutes later the forward motor has been replaced with the defective unit sent to the factory for overhaul and / or salvage. But it's difficult to imagine an economically-effectie model for widespread adoption of battery swaps, once you realize, as you observed, that you can practically buy an entire car for the cost of the battery you're swapping. b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150317/540b9387/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Battery Swap - the stupid idea that wont die...
On Mar 17, 2015, at 8:44 PM, Lee Hart via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: However, fork lift batteries cost many thousands of dollars. And they weigh many times more than an EV pack. And yet they *do* routinely swap them anyway. Yes and no. The owners of the forklifts and the batteries swap the batteries in and out the same way you yourself might swap the batteries on your cordless drill. But what the owners of the forklifts _aren't_ doing is swapping batteries with some other company that charges them. That's the part that doesn't make economic sense. b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150317/d365908d/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Watch Malfunctioning meter. on YouTube
From: Cor van de Water via EV ev@lists.evdl.org Electronic circuits (The silicon wafer that carries the transistors and other circuitry) is affected in its operation by light. Just use the Car Guys (from NPR) method: put some black electrical tape over the display. Problem solved! :-) When I worked at Tektronix Laboratories in the 80s, we used to make crude cameras by unsoldering the metal lid off the ceramic RAM chips of the day, then focusing an image onto the chip and then demuxing the RAS and CAS info. A lot of cheapo electronics put a chip directly on a board, with a drop of epoxy over it. Perhaps this unit missed the epoxy step. Take it back for a refund. Ants are so much like human beings as to be an embarrassment. They farm fungi, raise aphids as livestock, launch armies into wars, use chemical sprays to alarm and confuse enemies, capture slaves, engage in child labor, exchange information ceaselessly. They do everything but watch television. -- Lewis Thomas Jan Steinman, EcoReality Co-op ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Watch Malfunctioning meter. on YouTube
I suspect some sort of feedback via the LCD panel caused by sunlight. Using Ohm's law might shed some light...I don't know how though. Lawrence Rhodes From: Michael Ross michael.e.r...@gmail.com To: Lawrence Rhodes primobass...@sbcglobal.net; Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 3:08 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Watch Malfunctioning meter. on YouTube If it wasn't for the possibly coincidental sunlight, I would say it looks like an electromechanical voltage regulator in action. A regulator might go as high as 14 and change, and when it stops charging the battery voltage shows and is load dependent - not steady. The change is kind of fast to be a thermal effect of the sunlight on plastic (not very conductive). Usually instrumentation amps for voltage are not that susceptible to changes in ambient temperature. How could be simply the light intensity? I don't have a feel for that. You could mess around with an ice pack or a bottle of chip freezer spray and see if the change goes the other direction. On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 5:55 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Malfunctioning meter.: https://youtu.be/xNy8IOlRkII This is the correct url. Lawrence Rhodes -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150317/0d32c3cf/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. Warren Buffet Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150317/358718ea/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Watch Malfunctioning meter. on YouTube
I would suspect that sunlight on the display raises the current draw of the display. This current draw is on the 5 volt regulator of the entire meter. Being an inexpensive meter the 5 volt regulator is also the reference voltage for the meter. Current goes up, reference voltage goes down. Reference voltage goes down and the reading goes up. Sincerely, Mark Grasser - -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Cor van de Water via EV Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 7:22 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Watch Malfunctioning meter. on YouTube Electronic circuits (The silicon wafer that carries the transistors and other circuitry) is affected in its operation by light. Similar to a solar cell generating current when hit by photons, also a slice of silicon for a transistor or other electronic component will start generating a small current under light, so it is a sign that the actual chip of the meter, which normally is potted in a black blob for this reason, is not completely potted and is receiving enough light to be affected by the (stray) light falling on it. It is the electronics that is affected by light (photons), not the LCD or the heat. Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes via EV Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 3:33 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Watch Malfunctioning meter. on YouTube I suspect some sort of feedback via the LCD panel caused by sunlight. Using Ohm's law might shed some light...I don't know how though. Lawrence Rhodes From: Michael Ross michael.e.r...@gmail.com To: Lawrence Rhodes primobass...@sbcglobal.net; Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 3:08 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Watch Malfunctioning meter. on YouTube If it wasn't for the possibly coincidental sunlight, I would say it looks like an electromechanical voltage regulator in action. A regulator might go as high as 14 and change, and when it stops charging the battery voltage shows and is load dependent - not steady. The change is kind of fast to be a thermal effect of the sunlight on plastic (not very conductive). Usually instrumentation amps for voltage are not that susceptible to changes in ambient temperature. How could be simply the light intensity? I don't have a feel for that. You could mess around with an ice pack or a bottle of chip freezer spray and see if the change goes the other direction. On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 5:55 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Malfunctioning meter.: https://youtu.be/xNy8IOlRkII This is the correct url. Lawrence Rhodes -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150317/0d 32c3cf/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. Warren Buffet Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150317/358718ea /attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Battery Swap - the stupid idea that wont die...
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 3:21 PM, Jorg Brown jorg.br...@gmail.com wrote: A long time ago, I ate dinner with Martin Eberhard, and the subject of battery swap came up. He was incredibly dismissive of the idea. He said the first problem is safety: to pass the required safety standards, you've got to attach the pack very, very firmly - a problem you don't have with things like This should have read a problem you don't have with things like a Forklift. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150317/8ac1cc4f/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Watch Malfunctioning meter. on YouTube
Electronic circuits (The silicon wafer that carries the transistors and other circuitry) is affected in its operation by light. Similar to a solar cell generating current when hit by photons, also a slice of silicon for a transistor or other electronic component will start generating a small current under light, so it is a sign that the actual chip of the meter, which normally is potted in a black blob for this reason, is not completely potted and is receiving enough light to be affected by the (stray) light falling on it. It is the electronics that is affected by light (photons), not the LCD or the heat. Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes via EV Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 3:33 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Watch Malfunctioning meter. on YouTube I suspect some sort of feedback via the LCD panel caused by sunlight. Using Ohm's law might shed some light...I don't know how though. Lawrence Rhodes From: Michael Ross michael.e.r...@gmail.com To: Lawrence Rhodes primobass...@sbcglobal.net; Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2015 3:08 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Watch Malfunctioning meter. on YouTube If it wasn't for the possibly coincidental sunlight, I would say it looks like an electromechanical voltage regulator in action. A regulator might go as high as 14 and change, and when it stops charging the battery voltage shows and is load dependent - not steady. The change is kind of fast to be a thermal effect of the sunlight on plastic (not very conductive). Usually instrumentation amps for voltage are not that susceptible to changes in ambient temperature. How could be simply the light intensity? I don't have a feel for that. You could mess around with an ice pack or a bottle of chip freezer spray and see if the change goes the other direction. On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 5:55 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Malfunctioning meter.: https://youtu.be/xNy8IOlRkII This is the correct url. Lawrence Rhodes -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150317/0d 32c3cf/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. Warren Buffet Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell michael.e.r...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150317/358718ea/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Battery Swap - the stupid idea that wont die...
Standard Oil (Chevron) did that in China in the 1890s. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Oil look for standard oil in china, about 1/3 down the page. But, for charge stations, I'm pretty sure such a monopoly wouldn't work. It could work for gas stations, to a degree, because there are so many of them and the demand to use them is high. Even partitioning among manufacturers would still leave a fairly large economy of scale. With EV charging, even if everyone used an EV, the demand for not-at-home charging might not be high enough to gain economy of scale to make it worth having a company's own charge network. That's certainly true today with such a small market of EVs. Looking at Tesla's exception is interesting. I think it's reasonably clear their motivation is not to have a monopoly on charging stations but to simply enable their drivers to charge without worry - creating more value for purchasing a Tesla. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if Tesla, once more stations are built out, starts letting non Tesla owners use their stations (for a fee). Peri -- Original Message -- From: Lee Hart via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 17-Mar-15 10:54:18 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery Swap - the stupid idea that wont die... EVDL Administrator via EVev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Can you imagine what refueling your ICEV would be like today if a time traveler to 1900 accidentally stepped on a butterfly, and today, every car made required a different blend of fuel? I agree. The last thing that consumers want is to grant the auto companies or power companies a monopoly on charging. Henry Ford once tried to buy up gas stations, but was thwarted by the government on anti-trust grounds. He reportedly said, If I owned the filling stations, I'd GIVE away the cars! Ed Blackmond via EV wrote: But swapping packs is going to be rare in comparison to refueling an ICEV today. Drivers will only need to swap when they need a larger capacity pack and when they need to swap back to their normal capacity pack. Everything depends on the situation, and the customer. Some customers will NEVER swap. Others will do it every day. Swapping packs makes sense for fleet users. They may do it every day, or even several times a day. It's not uncommon for fork lifts with swappable packs to run 3 shifts a day, with a fresh pack swapped in every shift (two on charge, one in use). I can imagine taxicabs, buses, delivery trucks, and the like doing the same thing. They might want the swap stations conveniently located along their route. -- We cannot waste time. We can only waste ourselves. -- George Matthew Adams -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeah...@earthlink.net ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Battery Swap - the stupid idea that wont die...
On Mar 17, 2015, at 1:23 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On 13 Mar 2015 at 13:57, Larry Gales via EV wrote: you don't need to have all manufacturers adhere to a common standard (though that would be nice), but a major manufacturer such as Tesla could have their on swap stations that serve their own type of vehicles. Sorry, I have to disagree. I just don't see it working without some kind of standard. Can you imagine what refueling your ICEV would be like today if a time traveler to 1900 accidentally stepped on a butterfly, and today, every car made required a different blend of fuel? But swapping packs is going to be rare in comparison to refueling an ICEV today. Drivers will only need to swap when they need a larger capacity pack and when they need to swap back to their normal capacity pack. Ed ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Nissan Ads for free fast charging
On 03/17/2015 09:06 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: Nissan is airing ads in the DC area about free high speed charging for 2 years. Seems like a pretty slick marketing idea, since it attracts buyers while at the same time the typical commuter rarely actually uses fast charging. Nice. Bob It's the same for Tesla and SuperChargers only more so. A Tesla owner will get only a tiny fraction of lifetime energy needs from SuperCharging, but the SuperCharger network vastly enhances the usefulness of the cars. The other installed and proposed DC charging networks pale in comparison to the SuperCharger network as it exists right now. And the Tesla owner pays (very modestly) up front. No signing up for a network. No keeping track of multiple RFID cards. No phone calls to get a charge station turned on. No per charge cost. No nickel and dime ing. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Battery Swap - the stupid idea that wont die...
EVDL Administrator via EVev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Can you imagine what refueling your ICEV would be like today if a time traveler to 1900 accidentally stepped on a butterfly, and today, every car made required a different blend of fuel? I agree. The last thing that consumers want is to grant the auto companies or power companies a monopoly on charging. Henry Ford once tried to buy up gas stations, but was thwarted by the government on anti-trust grounds. He reportedly said, If I owned the filling stations, I'd GIVE away the cars! Ed Blackmond via EV wrote: But swapping packs is going to be rare in comparison to refueling an ICEV today. Drivers will only need to swap when they need a larger capacity pack and when they need to swap back to their normal capacity pack. Everything depends on the situation, and the customer. Some customers will NEVER swap. Others will do it every day. Swapping packs makes sense for fleet users. They may do it every day, or even several times a day. It's not uncommon for fork lifts with swappable packs to run 3 shifts a day, with a fresh pack swapped in every shift (two on charge, one in use). I can imagine taxicabs, buses, delivery trucks, and the like doing the same thing. They might want the swap stations conveniently located along their route. -- We cannot waste time. We can only waste ourselves. -- George Matthew Adams -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeah...@earthlink.net ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Battery Swap - the stupid idea that wont die...
I think perspective will change as batteries begin needing replacement. I also think that there are a number of different possible business models for how a swap might work, including some that we haven't thought of yet. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 17, 2015, at 7:05 PM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On Mar 17, 2015, at 3:21 PM, Jorg Brown via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Fundamentally the problem is economics: in a car you have a $100 tank that you're filling up with $50 of fuel. But in an EV, you have a $40,000 pack that you're filling up with $5 of fuel. That's...that's an excellent observation that puts it in a perspective I've never thought about before. And you're right. Battery swaps likely won't make economic sense until traction batteries cost as much as today's starter batteries...but, by the time that comes to pass we'll have long since solved any recharging problems without resorting to battery swaps. Tesla's robot-swappable batteries would make perfect sense for professional racing. Instead of a pit stop to fill with gas, you have a pit stop to swap batteries. And, presumably, change tires and whatever else needs to be done. It likely also makes the mechanic's job much easier. If they've taken similar approaches to other major components, they could conceivably use labor with minimal technical skills (and, of course, this being Tesla, high-powered people skills) in service stations. Something's worng with the car? Get it to the official Tesla shop, the mechanic plugs in to read where the problem is...undoes some fasteners, positions the magic robot, and a few minutes later the forward motor has been replaced with the defective unit sent to the factory for overhaul and / or salvage. But it's difficult to imagine an economically-effectie model for widespread adoption of battery swaps, once you realize, as you observed, that you can practically buy an entire car for the cost of the battery you're swapping. b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150317/540b9387/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
