Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Offset Supercharging degradation w/ pack balancing
I see a couple of things wrong here that make me question the whole article: 1) The author seems to think that supercharging will be harder on the pack than fast charging a LEAF because the supercharger is higher rate. BUT, compared to total pack capacity, the supercharger is the lower of the two rates. (and the Tesla has better thermal management than the LEAF) 2) I don't see how the 98% capacity estimate could have been accurate immediately after supercharging. I don't know the specifics of the Tesla battery, but I would expect the estimated capacity to be high before the battery has had a chance to cool down from supercharging. Bill -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150803/106a4cd0/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Offset Supercharging degradation w/ pack balancing
There are too many variables to draw any strong conclusions. The two biggest factors are: 1) The BMS does not have as much time to balance during a fast charge. 2) The cell temperature is typically higher (for many reasons) when you fast charge. The cells don't like high temperatures. Stale charge is also large factor in apparent capacity change and happens in all chemistries to varying degrees. It may be a factor in these tests on battery pack capacity. (In nicads it can be particularly a large stale charge effect and is commonly called memory effect.) Essentially, when you _gently_ and _fully_ cycle a battery, the apparent capacity becomes much greater after the first full cycle, and often grows a bit more with the second full cycle. The longer it has been since you last accessed the full capacity of the battery, the worse the problem of stale charge becomes. Batteries are very complicated chemical beasts. Simple tests often don't tell you the full story. Bill Dube' ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVLN: V2G-plugins+Solar+Energy-Storage Bundling Approved In CA
https://cleantechnica.com/2015/07/29/solar-storage-ev-bundling-approved-in-california/
Solar + Storage + EV Bundling Approved In California
July 29th, 2015 by Steve Hanley
[image
http://solarlove.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/cps-energy-distributed-rooftop-solar-program-%C2%A9-cps-energy--270x172.jpg
cps energy distributed rooftop solar program © cps energy
]
For the first time anywhere in the United States, a grid operator has
approved rules that allow companies to buy electricity from numerous homes
and commercial power systems, then bundle it to meet the threshold needed to
sell energy on the wholesale market. The move approving solar power bundling
means electricity from individual rooftop systems could be shared with
utility customers in other states.
According to the Chicago Tribune, the California Independent System Operator
Corporation (ISO) will now permit companies to consolidate the output of
rooftop solar systems, batteries, and even plug-in electric vehicles. The
rules apply to utilities as well as private companies and individuals. The
shift demonstrates that small-scale power sources are becoming a more
critical part of the state’s energy mix.
“This is an important win for California energy users,” said Ken Munson,
chief executive officer of Sunverge Energy, which aggregates power from
solar panels and batteries installed in homes and businesses. “It paves the
way for consumers to play a more active role in the generation and
distribution of the energy we use every day.”
Residential solar has been the fastest growing segment of the California
solar industry. With an increase of 50% in 2014, it outpaced utility-scale
solar, which expanded 15%, according to Bloomberg New Energy Finance.
The move by the grid operator “could ultimately benefit providers of
distributed solar, because it creates the opportunity for an alternative
source of revenue outside of net metering,” said Madeline Yozwiak, a
Bloomberg analyst. SolarCity, the biggest residential rooftop solar owner in
the state, sees the Thursday decision as an “important first step toward
expanding access for distributed solar and storage in wholesale markets,”
according to an e-mail from company spokesman Jonathan Bass.
“Historically, residents haven’t been able to participate in wholesale
markets; they have been ring-fenced,” says Alan Isemonger, founder of Energy
Market Expertise in Fair Oaks, California. “Now they will have more
opportunities to participate.” He was formerly a manager in market
operations at the California ISO.
California wants to get 33% of its power from renewable sources by 2020 and
50% by 2030 as part of its overall plan to meet the challenge of impending
climate change. Hopefully, the decision by the California ISO will spur
interest in aggregating solar power in other states, leading to more
competition and lower prices for consumers.
[© cleantechnica.com]
...
http://solarlove.org/california-grid-operator-approves-solar-power-bundling/
California Grid Operator Approves Solar Power Bundling
July 29th, 2015 by Steve Hanley
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[EVDL] EVLN: Offset Supercharging degradation w/ pack balancing
'“It’s fine to Supercharge,” she said “Just don’t do it too much.” Tesla Service Center “pack balancing” ... they do it all the time. “Discharge it as close as you can to zero, and then charge it as slow as possible all the way up to 100 percent,” ... “You’ll probably get some capacity back.”' % Is it the pack, guessometer, or both that is reset? % http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1099280_life-with-tesla-model-s-does-supercharging-cut-battery-capacity Life With Tesla Model S: Does Supercharging Cut Battery Capacity? By David Noland Jul 28, 2015 [images http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/tesla-model-s-electric-car-road-trip-upstate-new-york-to-southern-california-photo-david-noland_100500010_m.jpg Solar panels at Supercharger in Barstow, CA, during Tesla Model S road trip / David Noland http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/tesla-model-s-lithium-ion-battery-pack-in-rolling-chassis-photo-martin-gillet-via-flickr_100481091_m.jpg Tesla Model S lithium-ion battery pack in rolling chassis / Martin Gillet via Flickr http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/2013-tesla-model-s-at-supercharger-station-on-ny-to-fl-road-trip-photo-david-noland_100454642_m.jpg 2013 Tesla Model S at Supercharger station on NY-to-FL road trip / David Noland http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/2013-tesla-model-s-at-supercharger-station-on-ny-to-fl-road-trip-photo-david-noland_100454644_m.jpg ] [image] Tesla Model S in Albuquerque's 'snowstorm' during NY-to-California road trip / David Noland Last month, my wife and I took my 2013 Tesla Model S on a day trip from our home in New York’s Hudson Valley to Brattleboro, Vermont, a distance of 180 miles. We picked up our daughter, charged the 85-kilowatt-hour battery up to 98 percent at the Brattleboro Supercharger, and returned home via a longer, more scenic route of 210 miles. To my surprise, the return trip took almost every electron the battery could muster. We pulled into the driveway with only 5 percent capacity remaining—roughly 15 miles of range. At first I attributed the close call to a headwind on the way home. But the efficiency readout for the return leg had showed a respectable 302 watt-hours per mile. That was only a bit worse than the 290 Wh/mi of the outbound leg, and well within my normal range for summer Interstate cruising. Diminished battery capacity Looking more closely, what caught my eye was the dashboard readout for total energy used for the 210-mile return leg: 63.5 kWh. I had started with 98 percent battery and finished with 5 percent. Thus the 63.5 kWh amounted to 93 percent of the total battery capacity. That suggests the 100-percent capacity was 68.3 kWh. Wait a minute: Wasn’t this supposed to be an 85-kWh battery? What the heck had happened to the other 17 kWh? Too much Supercharging? There has long been speculation that Supercharging--and DC fast charging of any electric car--can cause long-term loss of Model S battery capacity. And there is credible research to support the general idea. A 2014 study by Idaho National Laboratory of two 2012 Nissan Leafs concluded that, after 40,000 miles, the Nissan Leaf that used 50-kW fast charging exclusively had 3 percent less battery capacity than the one that used standard 6.6-kW charging. At 120-135 kW, the Tesla Superchargers are more than twice as powerful as the Leaf fast-chargers. It stands to reason that its effects on long-term battery capacity might be even greater. Was my apparent loss of battery capacity due to too much Supercharging? [image] Tesla Model S electric-car road trip, Route 66 Museum, Elk City, Oklahoma / David Noland As it happens, I’ve done a lot of Supercharging in the past six months. In January, I drove my Model S to California, using Superchargers most of the way. During a two-month stay, we made several Supercharged road trips along the West Coast. Then I drove the car back to New York, Supercharged all the way along I-70. And for the past few weeks, I’ve done some local Supercharging at a new station that recently opened near me. Overall, I’d estimate that of the last 10,000 miles I’ve driven the Model S, 8,000 of them have been Supercharged. No problem, Tesla says Has this Supercharging frenzy come back to haunt me? Tesla says no. (In fact, one Tesla tech rep I consulted almost shouted, “Absolutely not!”) The official company line is that Supercharging has no deleterious effect on the battery, period. But a funny thing: all three Tesla reps I talked to, including the shouter, hedged their bets. After assuring me there was absolutely no problem, each one advised me that--all else being equal--slower charging was better for the battery in the long run. “It’s fine to Supercharge,” one of them told me. “Just don’t do it too much.” When I pointed out the thundering contradiction in that statement, she just shrugged. So can I just Supercharge up to the point where I start to lose range? Sudden capacity loss Before I left for California, I’d
[EVDL] EVLN: Renault tips to maximize EV range (v)
http://ecomento.com/2015/07/28/renault-tips-to-maximize-electric-car-range/
Renault offers tips to maximize range for electric cars
July 28, 2015 | Steve Hanley
[video
https://youtu.be/J1eIQ2EoRIY
How to manage and maximize your Renault ZOE’s range
Renault Jul 21, 2015
Advices and some practical and simple tools to help you minimize your
electricity consumption and thus maximize the range of your Renault ZOE.
]
The Renault ZOE [EV] is offered only in Europe, but it is a close cousin to
the Nissan LEAF available in the US. Renault has put together an informative
video that shows drivers how to maximize range for electric cars.
For many people, maximizing range is not a major concern during daily
driving, such as commuting. But for longer trips, it may be important to
know how to maximize range in order not to get stuck with a discharged
battery along the way.
Most of the tips are the same common sense ideas drilled into us all during
driver training, especially avoiding repeated full acceleration starts. The
ZOE has a convenient dashboard display that stays green when the driver is
conserving electric power but turns yellow when the accelerator pedal is
being used to liberally.
The second major piece of advice in the video is to drive at moderate
speeds. Wind resistance increases with the square of speed. What does that
mean? Simply this. If you double your speed, wind resistance goes up by a
factor of 4. In other words, it takes 4 times as much power to push your car
through the air at 80 mph than it does at 40.
Third, Renault suggests taking advantage of regenerative braking to put
electricity back into the battery while slowing. Many electric car drivers
get so good at doing this, they seldom use the brakes at all.
Finally, Renault recommends “preconditioning” your electric car so that the
cabin gets heated or cooled to the ideal temperature while the car is still
connected to the battery charger. Heating and cooling systems in an electric
car sap a lot of the battery’s energy. You can use your smartphone to set
the temperature you want it before you begin your trip. That way, you can
start off in comfort and with a fully charged battery.
One interesting thing here is that the ZOE now has 149 miles of range.
That’s quite a bit more than the LEAF, which only has 88 miles of range. Is
that a clue that the LEAF will have more range soon?
[© ecomento.com]
...
http://www.carscoops.com/2015/07/renault-offers-tips-for-maximizing.html
Renault Offers Tips For Maximizing Electric Car Driving Range
July 22, 2015 | by Dan Mihalascu
For EVLN posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/
http://gas2.org/2015/07/27/why-is-gm-only-planning-3-chevy-bolts-per-year/
Only 30k/yr of GM's 200mi EV Plannedscared of Tesla-3 LG's limits
http://cleantechnica.com/2015/07/28/2-potential-reasons-gm-is-only-planning-3-chevy-bolts-per-year/
http://www.newshour.com.bd/2015/07/29/wireless-charging-for-electric-vehicles-inches-closer-to-reality/
Wireless charging for plugins inches closer to reality
http://evfleetworld.co.uk/news/2015/Jul/Tesla-Superchargers-now-live-at-three-UK-motorway-service-areas/0438020908
Tesla Superchargers now live at three UK motorway service areas
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EVLN: Offset Supercharging degradation with pack balancing
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[EVDL] EVent: European WAVE 2015 EV Rally Tweets, Posts, Pictures, Videos
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/06/15/wave-2015-worlds-largest-electric-vehicle-rally/ Get to know WAVE 2015, world's largest electric vehicle rally Jun 15th 2015 Sebastian Blanco [videos flash https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-AJRp7ASnE Wave2015 Day 1 Plauen - Leipzig Louis Palmer Jun 14, 2015 images http://www.autoblog.com/photos/wave-2015/ Gallery Wave 2015 Jun 14, 2015 ] We've Got Tweets, Posts, Pictures, And Videos For You. And More To Come. If you followed the AutoblogGreen Twitter or Facebook feeds this past weekend, you know that we're having a fun time on the WAVE 2015 electric vehicle rally in Europe. Over two days, we've traveled through eastern Germany and will be leaving Berlin today headed west and then south on our way to Switzerland later in the week. I'm going to do a big write-up on this adventure once it's all over, but for now I wanted to point you all to our in-the-moment coverage that I'm posting through social media and to share my first few interviews with some of the passionate EV drivers who are spending their own time and money to promote electric vehicles. No matter what country they're from, you can tell how excited they are for electric mobility, which comes with its own special challenges and joys here in Europe. See what I mean in the short clips above. We've also got the first official 2015 WAVE video that the Louis Palmer and his team whipped up and which captures the happenings of day one. You can watch that below and stay tuned for much, much more over this next week. Besides paying attention to the social side of AutoblogGreen links above, you can search for #WAVE2015 on Twitter to see posts from other drivers and EV fans and follow WAVE on Facebook. With almost 90 electric vehicles spread out over five different groups running around the countryside this week, I simply can't be everywhere. I'm learning as much about what else is happening on this trip through social media as you can. Let's enjoy the trip. [© 2015 AOL] ... http://www.wavetrophy.com/en/ WAVE 2015 FROM EASTERN GERMANY INTO THE ALPS 13 - 21 JUNE 2015 http://insideevs.com/wave-2015-first-hand-account-from-european-electric-car-rally/ WAVE 2015 – First-Hand Account From European Electric Car Rally [20150802] by Inside EVs Staff R.Freund,A.Soule electricauto.org [images http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/rally-1.jpg 48 numbered switchbacks, to the top of an Alpine Pass for our EVs to “tractor” up http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/rally-23.jpg Location Of Rally http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/rally-3.jpg Switchback http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/rally-4.jpg Translated, [the VW egolf EV rear] window decal asks provocatively: “Are you still tanking up, or are you already charging?” http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/rally-5.jpg Charger (public EVSE) http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/rally-6.jpg European CCS http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/rally-7.jpg Pop-up AC power source cleverly disguised on German marketplace parking lot. This 3 phase feeder would supply 230 Volts at 63 Amps for 25 kW http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/rally-8.jpg Three phase input via Mennekes Type 2 (blue) connector, SAE CCS DC connection to the EV on the right side. This microcontrolled inverter was used to “DC quick charge” a VW e-Golf during the tour http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/rally-9.jpg On wheels, this DC charger was pressed into service as well in Switzerland near the end of our trek http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/rally-10.jpg Connectors http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/rally-11.jpg At least 65 Tesla owners amass for trek into Berlin.de to address the Bundesrat, the representative body of the 16 federal states ] Louis Palmer, an intrepid pioneer of http://SolarTaxi.com fame held his fifth annual EV Rally which toured Germany and Switzerland during the week of June 12 to June 20. See http://www.wavetrophy.com/en/ We joined him as tour director, leaving our solar powered EVs at home to brave the (to us, unknown) European charging standards along with 90 other teams and a support crew. We traveled from eastern Germany, north to Berlin and then down thru central Germany to Switzerland, into the Alps. Our rented a Renault Zoe EV, with its 22 kWh pack, came from fm.de, a new rental company named ‘Future Mobility,’ based in Zwickau. We were supplied with all cables and charging paraphernalia including an obligatory towing cable. The website has a 5 min 56 sec video which shows Louis welcoming our “Team Kalifornia” at the 35 second marker. The trail we followed only had daily end points identified, leaving the precise route to be driven to the discretion of the drivers. This wasn’t as easy as it sounds because there are several routes that you could take with the Autobahn usually being the shortest time but longest distance route. The
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Offset Supercharging degradation w/ pack balancing
for the last few miles, I pulled into my driveway with the battery
meter reading 1 percent and the projected range readout at 2 miles.
I plugged into my regular NEMA 14-50 outlet, but set the charging rate to 20
amps, half the normal level. The full charging process would take about 18
hours, the longest I could manage to do without the car.
[image] 2011 Chevrolet Volt [pih] and 2013 Tesla Model S [EV] / David
Noland
Long story short: During those 18 hours, the dashboard readout told me that
I’d pumped 74 kWh worth of electrons into my battery.
I had apparently regained not only the capacity I’d lost from the
Supercharger binge, but also an additional 2 kWh that got me all the way
back to 97 percent of Howe’s number for full new capacity.
Not so fast….
Was this apparent 6-kWh capacity gain after balancing the pack real or
imaginary?
During the subsequent week of local driving, the numbers didn’t add up.
When the battery hit 50 percent, I had used only 31 kWh and had traveled 105
miles. That implied a full capacity of just 62 kWh and a max range of 210
miles. I seemed to be losing even more capacity.
Oddly, though, the “rated range” display told me I had 125 miles remaining
from the last 50 percent.
I chalked up this 20-percent discrepancy to “vampire” power drawn while the
car was parked, which Tesla puts at about 1 percent per day.
Long-distance test
Fortunately, I had another long trip coming up, this time to visit friends
in Maine. It would be the true test, untainted by any vampire losses.
The round trip had four legs—two each of 160 and 200 miles.
On the first leg of 160 miles, I started at 100 percent and finished at 32
percent, using 48.0 kWh in the process. That worked out to a theoretical
100-percent capacity of 70.6 kWh.
Results for the other three legs were similar: 70.3, 69.9, and 70.0 kWh.
Call it 70 kWh.
That was better than the 68 kWh before the pack-balancing, but well short of
the apparent 74 kWh capacity immediately after the pack-balancing process.
It still looks like I’ve lost about 9 percent of my battery capacity after
35,000 miles—a lot more than the projected losses in the Dutch study.
Conclusions
Based my experience, it seems to me that Supercharging probably does
somewhat degrade the long-term battery capacity.
And as for balancing the pack, it seems to work ... a little bit, sort of.
But how long does the pack-balancing benefit last? That remains to be seen.
Tesla, of course, could easily clear up all this confusion by simply
revealing a few basic facts that it certainly knows:
What is the usable capacity of the battery when new?
Is there any reserve capacity after the battery meter hits zero?
What is the effect of pack-balancing?
(Its failure to reveal such basic information continues to baffle me.)
Finally, I'd also like to see Tesla provide some actual data to back up its
claim—in my opinion, now rather dubious—that Supercharging does not affect
long-term battery capacity.
[© 2015 Green Car Reports]
...
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1098658_life-with-tesla-model-s-local-supercharger-joys-frustrations
Life With Tesla Model S: Local Supercharger Joys Frustrations
...
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1098831_teslas-contradictory-messages-is-supercharging-unlimited-or-not
Tesla's Contradictory Messages: Is Supercharging Unlimited, Or Not?
For EVLN posts use:
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http://gas2.org/2015/07/27/why-is-gm-only-planning-3-chevy-bolts-per-year/
Only 30k/yr of GM's 200mi EV Plannedscared of Tesla-3 LG's limits
http://cleantechnica.com/2015/07/28/2-potential-reasons-gm-is-only-planning-3-chevy-bolts-per-year/
http://www.newshour.com.bd/2015/07/29/wireless-charging-for-electric-vehicles-inches-closer-to-reality/
Wireless charging for plugins inches closer to reality
http://evfleetworld.co.uk/news/2015/Jul/Tesla-Superchargers-now-live-at-three-UK-motorway-service-areas/0438020908
Tesla Superchargers now live at three UK motorway service areas
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EVLN: Renault tips to maximize EV range (v)
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