date:20151113



http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/11/08/one-year-with-an-all-electric-bmw-i3/
One Year with an all-electric BMW i3
November 8th, 2015  Chuck Vossler

[images  
http://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/bmw-i3-test-drive-winter-15.jpg
bmw i3 test drive winter

http://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/bmw-i3-test-drive-winter-20.jpg

http://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/bmw-i3-test-drive-winter-28.jpg

http://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Nokian-Hakkapelitta-R2-bmw-i3-19.jpg
(in the snow)

http://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Nokian-Hakkapelitta-R2-bmw-i3-17.jpg
Nokian Hakkapelitta R2

http://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/bmw-i3-test-drive-winter-21.jpg

http://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/bmw-i3-test-drive-winter-13.jpg

http://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/bmw-i-remote-01.jpg

http://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/BMW-i3-tpms-10.jpg
(4" bolt flat)

http://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/BMW-i3-tpms-06.jpg


video
http://youtu.be/mLwOTdNzwlI
One year living with the BMW i3
BMWBLOG Nov 8, 2015
"Born Electric" is BMW’s catch phrase for the i3. Now having lived with a
BMW i3 for a year, it makes me realize just how true that catch phrase is.

Owning and driving an electric car is indeed a whole new world - 12 months
and 12,000 miles without a drop of gas, an oil change or a visit to gas
station.
]

“Born Electric” is BMW’s catch phrase for the i3. Now having lived with a
BMW i3 for a year, it makes me realize just how true that catch phrase is.
Owning and driving an electric car is indeed a whole new world – 12 months
and 12,000 miles without a drop of gas, an oil change or a visit to gas
station.

Attention Grabber

To start with, the BMW i3 garnishes more attention than any other car, I’ve
ever owned. We’ve had people follow us to where we park and start taking to
us – a Tesla Model S follow us to our house just to see it up close. I could
go on and on. Surprisingly, it never gets old and we love talking about it.

Charging
I always get asked by people who don’t know electric cars if I have a
charger at work. As work is a 26 mile round trip from our house, it’s not
necessary even in the coldest of weather. We also get asked what it costs to
charge – I enjoy Solar/Home Charging and our overall electric bill hasn’t
changed as we produce more kWhs than we consume. If we had to pay for our
electricity, it’s $0.11 a kWh and a “fill up” would cost about $2.00 – if we
were almost empty.

BMW i3, in fact, is the most efficient car on the market, being rated at
124 MPGe.

We average 4.9 miles per kWh in combined usage of highway and city when the
weather is between 40F – 90F. The BMW i3, in fact, is the most efficient car
on the market, being rated at 124 MPGe. Part of the reason is the BMW i3 is
built using the lightest materials – Carbon Fiber Reinforced Plastic (CFRP),
aluminum as well as plastic – and weighs a mere 2,800 lbs. Powering the i3
is a 170 hp electric motor and a 22 kWh battery, of which a little over 18
kWh is usable. The i3’s range has stayed at about 80 miles. Just last week
we did 73 miles and had 7 miles left on the “guess o-meter.”

Though BMW sells the BMW i3 in pure electric (BEV) and the Range Extender
(REx) versions with a small onboard generator, we chose the i3 BEV as it is
not our only car and drive at most 50 miles in a day. Over the 12 months we
have experienced zero degradation in usable range. Seriously cold weather
does effect all electric cars – the i3 included – but there are tricks to
dealing with it. See electric car guru, Tom Moloughney’s tips here.

We did purchase a set of winter wheels and tires (Bridgestone Blizzaks) from
Tirerack, as well as a set of winter mats from WeatherTech. So outfitted, we
had no problems getting around in the snow and slush. Nokian sent us a set
of serious winter tires we tested as well. Both are outstanding and in my
opinion, snow tires are a necessity, if you want to drive in bad winter
weather.

The i3 is blast to drive. Mainly, I think, because of its crazy
instantaneous acceleration. Almost nothing can touch it 0-30 mph. Not only
does it push you back in the seat but there’s almost a George Jetson
electrical whine under hard acceleration and deceleration/ regenerative
braking. I absolutely love electric car, one-pedal-driving. It seems every
time I drive it, I try not to touch the brake pedal and plan stops well
enough so all the energy slowing is routed back into the battery. I live for
the 100% efficient rating on the BMW i Remote App. Driving around town –
love it. It feels like a tall go-cart.

On the freeway, though, I occasionally feel the i3 get buffeted around from
wind and the car moves around some. In town though, especially tight parking
garage taking advantage of the i3’s tight turning radius, the i3’s the bomb.

BMW i3 Tech
The tech in the i3 is insane. We’ll okay – maybe not Elon Musk insane – but
cool nonetheless. Walk up to the i3 at night and unlock it and the interior
is

[EVDL] EVLN: Musk Explains A Tesla Crash



http://fortune.com/2015/11/07/elon-musk-tesla-crashes/
Elon Musk Explains What Happens When A Tesla Crashes
NOVEMBER 7, 2015  Jen Wieczner

[image  / Getty Images
https://fortunedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/gettyimages-492682174.jpg?quality=80=840=485=1
A Tesla Model S car equipped with autopilot in Palo Alto, California, on,
Oct. 14, 2015.


video  flash
]

“You want a deep pool and one without rocks in it.”

As the surprise speaker at the Baron Investment Conference in New York
Friday, Tesla CEO Elon Musk discussed the claims that his company’s electric
cars have been saving people’s lives lately.

A few weeks ago, Dreamworks Animation CEO Jeffrey Katzenberg had an accident
while driving his Tesla  TSLA 0.25%  Model S, but credited the car for the
fact that he walked away with nothing more than a broken arm, and
specifically thanked Musk. Then last week, an Uber driver posted a video
showing how his Tesla, using its new autopilot mode, automatically stopped
just in time to avoid a gnarly head-on crash. Ron Baron, the head of Baron
Capital who founded the conference, mentioned both incidents to Musk, who
was already well aware of them, and asked the CEO why he didn’t play up
Tesla’s safety benefits more in the company’s marketing.

“In fact in designing the Model S and the Model X, safety was our absolute
paramount goal,” Musk responded. “I felt like obviously my family will be in
the car, my friends’ families, and if I didn’t do everything possible to
maximize safety and something went wrong, I couldn’t live with myself.”

Because Tesla’s electric motors are so much smaller than conventional steel
engines, the cars also have a “crumple zone” two or three times larger than
traditional cars, which keeps drivers safer in the event of a head-on
collision (if autopilot failed to keep the car out of harm’s way), Musk
said. “When you have a high-speed frontal collision,” he added, “It’s just
like jumping into a pool from a high diving board—you want a deep pool and
one without rocks in it.”

Tesla cars are built for “maximum safety,” Musk said, though he doesn’t
measure safety the way the government does, with the standard 5-star safety
ratings. (Tesla’s Model S does have a full 5-star rating, though.) “This ‘5
stars’ is not like an actual statistic. Safety statistics are not measured
really in stars.”

Instead, Musk pays attention to a car’s injury rating, where “the Model S
still has the lowest probability of injury of any car ever tested,” he said.
“It is just objectively true, it is the safest car by far.”

In Katzenberg’s case, he was “T-boned by an SUV, so that’s a side impact
collision,” Musk said. The Model S also performs “much better than any other
car” in that scenario, he explained—getting into some of the more complex
physics principles—essentially because it’s designed to distribute the shock
throughout the car so that no one part bears the brunt of the hit. “So the
whole car moves sideways in a side impact collision,” the CEO said.
[© fortune.com]




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: 
http://evdl.org/evln/


{brucedp.150m.com}

--
View this message in context: 
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Musk-Explains-A-Tesla-Crash-tp4678647.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Musk Explains A Tesla Crash

2015-11-13 Thread Bill Woodcock via EV

And then, there’s how they do it down under:

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/30021424/minister-smashes-into-fake-kangaroo-in-hilarious-driverless-car-gaffe/

-Bill




-- next part --
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 801 bytes
Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail
URL: 
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20151113/c642cddf/attachment.pgp>
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

[EVDL] 2016 30kWh Leaf : Best year to buy ...



[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Best-year-of-Leaf-to-buy-used-tp4678624.html
]

I have not driven the Leaf (my big body does not fit inside). But if I
could, I would wait for the 2016 30kWh Leaf in the SL or SV trim that had
the on-board 6kW L2 charger and had a L3 charging port.

The first production Leaf EV sold was to a SF Peninsula person (south of
where Lawrence lives) chose to buy from a Northern SF Bay  Dealership. See
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/1st-Leaf-EV-being-delivered-to-Redwood-City-CA-customer-tp3078469p3084218.html

He wisely tapped into the free Leaf forum resource to explore their options
of not only which dealership was the best one to buy from but also which
dealership was the best one to get their service done (the two do not always
coincide). They chose to buy their Leaf from a North SF Bay dealership (see
below), drive it down south to their home using the pubic EVSE
infrastructure, and also chose a different dealership closer to their home
for service.

I hope Lawrence can use the time while he waits wait for the 2016 30kWh Leaf
to be available to explore which dealerships would be best for him. There
are plenty to chose from. Here are a few:

http://www.northbaynissan.com/new-inventory/index.htm?listingConfigId=auto-new=2015=LEAF==SL==0==true=SEARCH=true=false=true=true
(Novato)

http://www.nissanofburlingame.com/VehicleDetails/new-2016-Nissan-Leaf-4DR_HB_SL_ELECT-Burlingame-CA/2656032593
(Burlingame, touts offering the 2016 model)

http://www.nissanofsanjose.com/new-inventory/index.htm?listingConfigId=auto-new=2015=LEAF==SV==0==true=SEARCH=false=false=false=true=BLANK=true=model%3Amake%2Ccity%3Aprovince%2Ccity%3Astate=compliant
(San Jose)

http://www.gilroynissan.com/details/2015-Nissan-Gilroy-CA/2779058
(Gilroy)

Also, Lawrence should familiarize himself with all the L3 CHAdeMO EVSE
plugshare.com shows that is near him. This would let him know what long
trips were possible when mostly using L3 EVSE (least time spent charging on
that rare long trip = trip more enjoyable).




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: 
http://evdl.org/evln/


{brucedp.150m.com}





-
On Thu, Nov 12, 2015, at 01:45 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
Well the 2016 is advertised but in San Francisco I can't get one ... Seems
the 2016 announcement has put a stop to sales of 2015 cars but I haven't
seen any reduction of the 15's. I might get a 16 if they were here ...
-


--
View this message in context: 
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/2016-30kWh-Leaf-Best-year-to-buy-tp4678642.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] 2016 30kWh Leaf : Best year to buy ...

On Nov 13, 2015, at 9:04 AM, Cruisin via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> Regardless where you buy a Leaf at, take note of the high pitch wine sound
> from the motor. VERY aggravating to most people.

Strange. I haven't noticed it at all.

> Also, excessive road noise
> due to lack of insulation.

It might have higher levels of road noise than other cars...but it has nearly 
no engine noise. Overall, I find it a _very_ quiet car. Indeed, stop at a 
traffic light and all you can hear are all the other cars around you; roll down 
the windows and all you hear is the wind and surrounding traffic.

b&

-- next part --
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 801 bytes
Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail
URL: 
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20151113/923bb4d9/attachment.pgp>
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] 2016 30kWh Leaf : Best year to buy ...

On 11/13/15 9:04 AM, Cruisin via EV wrote:

Regardless where you buy a Leaf at, take note of the high pitch wine sound
from the motor. VERY aggravating to most people.

I can't speak for most people but I doubt that's true. Our 2013 a
typical understated EV "jet-like" sound. Some may find it annoying, some
may find it thrilling, some may not really notice it.

It does have an added whistle added at low speeds to alert pedestrians
outside the car (switchable on 2011/12 models), which is not
particularly noticeable inside the car. Sadly, there is no option to
select a "Jetsons" spaceship sound for the pedestrian warning. :^)

Also, excessive road noise
due to lack of insulation.

The road noise level doesn't seem excessive compared to similar
hatchbacks. Overall the LEAF is a fairly quiet car, nicer for music
listening than our gasmobile.

My suggestion, is take a look at the Ford Focus
which makes no noise. It only has a 23kwh battery like the 2015 Leaf, but is
more efficient in energy use.

The Focus is a nice looking car. Perhaps it's quieter, I don't know I
haven't had the chance to ride in one. I think the Ford was the first EV
to support 6.6kW charging which may have influenced Nissan to add that
feature.

We considered the Focus EV. Where the Ford EV falls short is: lack of
trunk space (due to their battery configuration as a converted Focus
rather than built-for-EV design); and lack of faster level 3 charging.
Perhaps since it was a project driven more by a supplier rather than
Ford itself it seems stuck in time without much improvement since it was
introduced. What are Ford's EV plans going forward? Will Ford step up
with a purpose-built EV with more interior space, increased range and
faster charging to keep up with the competition or will they let Nissan,
Kia and others continue to eat their lunch?

Cheers,
-Jamie
www.JamieKrutz.com

--
View this message in context:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/2016-30kWh-Leaf-Best-year-to-buy-tp4678642p4678653.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

[EVDL] EVLN: BMW eRR e-Motorcycle Concept Revealed



http://gas2.org/2015/11/11/bmw-err-electric-motorcycle-revealed/
BMW eRR Electric Motorcycle Revealed (8 Photos)
November 11th, 2015  Jo Borrás

[images  
http://gas2.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/BMW-eRR-electric-superbike-04.jpg
BMW eRR Electric Motorcycle Concept

http://gas2.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/BMW-eRR-electric-superbike-01.jpg

http://gas2.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/BMW-eRR-electric-superbike-02.jpg

http://gas2.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/BMW-eRR-electric-superbike-03.jpg

http://gas2.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/BMW-eRR-electric-superbike-08.jpg

http://gas2.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/BMW-eRR-electric-superbike-05.jpg

http://gas2.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/BMW-eRR-electric-superbike-06.jpg
]

We don’t have much to go on in terms of technical or performance
specifications, but the pre-EICMA reveal of the upcoming eRR electric super
bike has made one thing perfectly clear: BMW’s motorcycle division wants in
on the EV act.

The success of the BMW car division’s all-electric/hybrid “i” line- as well
as BMW Motorrad’s own success with its electric scooters– is undisputed. The
... i3 [EV] represents nearly 10% of BMW car sales in North America. It
should come as no surprise, then, that an electric bike is in the works.
This bike, built in collaboration with the Technical University of Munich,
explores one possible direction BMW could take when it comes to electric
motorcycles.

You can see more pictures of the BMW eRR electric motorcycle in the photo
gallery, below. We’ll bring you more BMW news from EICMA as it develops.
[© gas2.org  Sustainable Enterprises Media]



http://www.autoevolution.com/news/the-electric-bmw-err-is-real-here-is-the-concept-video-photo-gallery-101924.html
The Electric BMW eRR Is Real, Here Is the Concept - Video, Photo Gallery
11TH NOVEMBER 2015  FLORIN TIBU
[flash  video]
...
http://www.designboom.com/technology/bmw-motorrad-concept-err-electric-motorcycle-11-11-2015/
BMW presents endeavor into electric motorcycles with eRR concept
nov 11, 2015
...
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/2015/11/article/bmw-reveals-experimental-err-electric-supersport/#
BMW Reveals Experimental eRR Electric Supersport
November 12, 2015  Byron Wilson



http://europe.autonews.com/article/20151112/COPY/311129938/karma-automotive-links-with-bmw-for-electric-drive-technology
Karma Automotive links with BMW for electric drive technology
November 12, 2015  David Welch,Bloomberg
http://evertiq.com/news/38057




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: 
http://evdl.org/evln/


{brucedp.150m.com}

--
View this message in context: 
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-BMW-eRR-e-Motorcycle-Concept-Revealed-tp4678644.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-Jerry plugs in “The Spirit of AZ" Leaf EV across AZ

On Nov 13, 2015, at 7:54 AM, brucedp5 via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> Prescott

I'm not surprised. Prescott (rhymes with, "biscuit") has seen lots of 
transformations over the years...from the first territorial capital to a mining 
town and, today, a thriving arts and culture scene. If any town in Arizona is 
going to understand the value of attracting EVs, it's Prescott.

(Not the only town, mind you...Sedona also springs to mind)

b&
-- next part --
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 801 bytes
Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail
URL: 
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20151113/dbb73beb/attachment.pgp>
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

[EVDL] Ignorant MVPD stopped auton Google nEV for driving regulated nEV speed limit



'Apparently MVPD doesn’t understand it is legal for a nEV to drive on 35mph
streets under the speed limit'

http://www.mailtribune.com/article/ZZ/20151112/BUSINESS/311129866
A policeman pulled over one of Google's self-driving cars because it was
going so slowly
Nov. 12, 2015  Jillian D'Onfro

[image  
https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-0/p180x540/12208756_10207723907406259_2416803207132659339_n.jpg?oh=03de83d57bfc7d19ecae5ce3ec9d3595=56BC638A
 / ©2015 Aleksandr Milewski — in Los Altos, California
]

It's not speeding that Google's self-driving cars have to worry about. 

The Mountain View police department pulled over one of the company's
automated vehicles for moving too slowly, according to Zandr Milewski, who
posted a picture of the incident on Facebook: 

Post by: Zandr Milewski
"We talked to the driver, apparently MVPD doesn't get NEVs (Neighborhood
Electric Vehicles) and pulled them over to ask why they were all going so
slow," Milewski writes in the comments of the post (which we spotted via
Fusion [
http://fusion.net/story/232280/self-driving-car-pulled-over/
]). 

Google confirmed the report with its own post on Google+ [
https://plus.google.com/+SelfDrivingCar/posts/j9ouVZSZnRf
]. 

"Driving too slowly? Bet humans don’t get pulled over for that too often,"
the company quipped. 

Google's prototype cars can only drive 25 MPH, for safety reasons and so
that they feel "friendly and approachable" while driving on public roads.
They also have manual controls, so that the human inside the car can take
over and drive if they need to (in response to a cop, for example). 

"Like this officer, people sometimes flag us down when they want to know
more about our project," Google continues. "After 1.2 million miles of
autonomous driving (that’s the human equivalent of 90 years of driving
experience), we’re proud to say we’ve never been ticketed!" 

The cars are currently cruising around public roads in the Austin, Texas and
in the city around its HQ. 

As for Milewski, it wasn't the first time he'd spotted one of Google's
autonomous vehicles and it probably won't be the last, as he told Business
Insider via Facebook Messenger: 

"It's Mountain View, these things are everywhere."
[© 2015 Local Media Group]
...
https://plus.google.com/wm/1/+SelfDrivingCar/posts
Google Self-Driving Car Project
http://www.google.com/selfdrivingcar/
...
[video
http://youtu.be/uCezICQNgJU
Ready for the Road
Google Self-Driving Car Project May 15, 2015
We started designing the world’s first fully self-driving vehicle to
transform mobility, making it easier, safer and more enjoyable for everyone
to get around. Now we're ready for the next step of our project: this
summer, our prototype vehicles will leave the test track and hit the
familiar roads of Mountain View,California, with our safety drivers aboard.
https://googleblog.blogspot.com/2015/05/self-driving-vehicle-prototypes-on-road.html
]



http://fusion.net/story/232280/self-driving-car-pulled-over/
One of Google’s self-driving cars got pulled over for going too slow
November 12, 2015  Kevin Roose

[image
https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-0/p180x540/12208756_10207723907406259_2416803207132659339_n.jpg?oh=03de83d57bfc7d19ecae5ce3ec9d3595=56BC638A
]

Self-driving cars will someday be the norm on American roads. But until that
happens, there are going to be a lot of awkward run-ins with people who
don’t quite understand the concept of a car that drives itself.

Case in point: this photo, captured by Zandr Milewski and posted to Facebook
this afternoon, that shows what appears to be one of Google’s self-driving
cars getting pulled over by a police officer.

In a comment on his post, Milewski said that he had “talked to the driver”
of the self-driving car. (Presumably, he meant the human sitting in the
front seat.) He said that “apparently MVPD [Mountain View Police Department]
doesn’t get NEVs [Neighborhood Electric Vehicles, a classification of
vehicle that is limited to slower-moving roads] and pulled them over to ask
why they were all going so slow.”

Google’s self-driving cars are still being tested, and their speeds are
being capped at 25 mph for safety reasons. They have also been programmed to
be extra-careful on the roads. According to Google’s self-driving car FAQ:

The cars drive conservatively. For example, they pause 1.5 seconds after
the light turns green at an intersection because many accidents happen
during this time.

So the next time you’re tempted to honk at a tiny car driving at
grandmotherly speeds ahead of you, just remember: it might be a robot doing
the driving.

Update: In a Google+ post, Google’s self-driving car project responded to
the traffic stop, saying:

We want (self-driving cars) to feel friendly and approachable, rather
than zooming scarily through neighborhood streets.

Like this officer, people sometimes flag us down when they want to know
more about our project. After 1.2 million miles

Re: [EVDL] 2016 30kWh Leaf : Best year to buy ...

2015-11-13 Thread Cruisin via EV

Regardless where you buy a Leaf at, take note of the high pitch wine sound
from the motor. VERY aggravating to most people. Also, excessive road noise
due to lack of insulation. My suggestion, is take a look at the Ford Focus
which makes no noise. It only has a 23kwh battery like the 2015 Leaf, but is
more efficient in energy use. 

--
View this message in context: 
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/2016-30kWh-Leaf-Best-year-to-buy-tp4678642p4678653.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] 2016 30kWh Leaf : Best year to buy ...

2015-11-13 Thread Willie2 via EV


On 11/13/2015 11:08 AM, Jamie K via EV wrote:

On 11/13/15 9:04 AM, Cruisin via EV wrote:
Regardless where you buy a Leaf at, take note of the high pitch wine 
sound

from the motor. VERY aggravating to most people.


I can't speak for most people but I doubt that's true. Our 2013 a 
typical understated EV "jet-like" sound. Some may find it annoying, 
some may find it thrilling, some may not really notice it.

My hearing is poor, especially at high frequencies, but.
I never noticed any noise on my first year Leaf.  Nor did anyone else 
comment on noise.  IMHO, of FAR more concern is crappy instrumentation 
and crappy manufacturer support.

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] 2016 30kWh Leaf : Best year to buy ...

2015-11-13 Thread Peri Hartman via EV

Yeah, pretty minima whining.  There's a slight high pitch whine - maybe 
8 - 10K?  Not real high.  And it's pretty low volume.  I can't hear it 
with the windows up but, with the windows down and at very low speeds, I 
can.  After about 10mph the road noise drowns it out - and there isn't 
much road noise at 10mph.


Maybe Ben's is a special case.  Could have some loose transformer 
windings, which I understand are the primary cause of whining.


The instrumentation and visibility are the two major drawbacks.  Great 
car otherwise.


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Willie2 via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Sent: 13-Nov-15 9:13:35 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2016 30kWh Leaf : Best year to buy ...


On 11/13/2015 11:08 AM, Jamie K via EV wrote:

On 11/13/15 9:04 AM, Cruisin via EV wrote:
Regardless where you buy a Leaf at, take note of the high pitch wine 
sound

from the motor. VERY aggravating to most people.


I can't speak for most people but I doubt that's true. Our 2013 a 
typical understated EV "jet-like" sound. Some may find it annoying, 
some may find it thrilling, some may not really notice it.

My hearing is poor, especially at high frequencies, but.
I never noticed any noise on my first year Leaf.  Nor did anyone else 
comment on noise.  IMHO, of FAR more concern is crappy instrumentation 
and crappy manufacturer support.

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)





___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

[EVDL] EVLN: EV-Jerry plugs in “The Spirit of AZ" Leaf EV across AZ

http://dcourier.com/main.asp?SectionID=1=1086=151727
Meet EV Jerry: Sustainability advocate plugs in at Prescott
11/8/2015 Max Efrein

[image
http://dcourier.com/SiteImages/Article/151727a.jpg
(Leaf & EVJerry next to CT4000 public EVSE)
]

Prescott's only publicly accessible electric vehicle (EV) charging station
just had a unique customer.

Retired U.S. Army sergeant major and energy sustainability advocate Jerry
"EV Jerry" Asher passed through here during his fourth Plug'n All Around AZ
tour-a pilgrimage he makes annually in his Nissan Leaf to spread the word
about electric vehicles and to map-out charging stations.

Calling it a Mayoral EVenture, Asher's mission has been to speak with
business owners and mayors throughout the state to convince them of how
relevant EV charging locations are to their economy and that they should
install more-or at least one if they have none.

"Say 50 EV drivers from Phoenix per week decide to pass through Prescott to
charge up their vehicles because there are accessible charging stations,"
Asher said. "While waiting for their vehicle to charge (which can take
several hours), they might decide to grab lunch, buy a couple things and
maybe even stay in a hotel for the night. That's money in your local
economy, all because there were places to charge up."

Margo Christensen, vice president of marketing and public relations for
SpringHill Suites by Marriott near downtown Prescott, has seen this very
concept work for the EV station the hotel installed just a few months ago.

"The charging station is not a direct revenue generator," Christensen said.
"But we've had people come charge up their vehicles, look around, and then
decide to book a night in the hotel. So it's working as the indirect revenue
generator that I thought it would."

More importantly to Asher, though, is the social and environmental benefits
that come with the rise of electric vehicles and alternative energy use. He
considers his tours around the state a public service and hopes to make a
splash with education.

"By talking about it more, it plants that seed," Asher said. "Let's plug
Prescott in. It already has a start with Margo here. Now if other hotels and
businesses start doing the same thing, it will really be a destination for
electric vehicle owners."
[© dcourier.com]

http://www.havasunews.com/news/tucson-man-trekking-across-state-in-electric-car/article_f6cf8aa2-8838-11e5-968d-db3e86d5af62.html
Tucson man trekking across state in electric car
[11/10/2015] BRANDON MESSICK

[image
http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/havasunews.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/0/be/0beb0682-8839-11e5-adcf-53b1153a028d/5642d8f39ce91.image.jpg
Jerry Asher
]

“The Spirit of Arizona” passed through Lake Havasu City on Tuesday as its
driver, Jerry Asher, of Tucson, continued his trek across the state.

The car is a 2011 Nissan LEAF, one of small minority of fully-electric
automobiles on Arizona’s roads. Asher is using it to visit every county seat
in the state this month – charging it between stretches of road in much the
same way he would charge his mobile phone.

He’s followed a “Green Highway” from Tucson to Nogales, Bisbee and Kingman,
among 14 other county seats in his journey to become the first “all-state”
vehicle in the nation. His will become the first vehicle, he says, to visit
every county seat in his home state.

“The Spirit of Arizona” has an effective range of about 75 miles, with a
maximum range of about 120 miles on a full battery. The car can be charged
through a wall-socket if need be, or from specialized 220-volt outlets, or
even more abundant energy supplies. His car gets about five miles per
kilowatt-hour.

While finding a place to charge his batteries isn’t always easy, Asher has
found RV parks, hotels and other venues through a phone application known as
“Plugshare,” which lists available charging locations for electric cars like
his own. In Havasu, listed charging venues include Anderson Nissan and
Island Inn.

“For me, it’s about going to different counties, like being a western
courier,” Asher said. Asher is a member of the Tucson Electric Vehicle
Association, as well as other organizations that cater to electric car
owners.

“The Spirit of Arizona” has gained some notoriety on the roads it’s
traveled, and Asher has let leaders such as Flagstaff Mayor Jerry Nabours
take it for a spin.

“This has been the first electric car in many of the cities I’ve visited,”
Asher said. “About four years ago I walked into a hotel in Yuma and asked if
I could use their outlet to charge my car. While I was asking, I was on the
TV in the lobby, talking to the local news station about my car earlier that
day.”

Asher charged his electric car at the Island Inn on Tuesday afternoon, then
traveled to Parker, where he was expected to meet with Parker Mayor Dan
Beaver.
[© 2015 Havasu News]

For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/

{brucedp.150m.com}

--
View this message in context:

Re: [EVDL] 2016 30kWh Leaf : Best year to buy ...

On Nov 13, 2015, at 10:12 AM, allan bullock <crui...@live.com> wrote:

> Check the reviews like consumer reports. It is down rated due to the motor
> whine. It is loudest at around 55mph, very noticeable.

That may be part of it. It's my parent's car, and I don't remember spending any 
significant amount of time on the freeway in it.

> Road noise is excessive compared to other
> EV's.

That may well be true...but _cabin_ noise compared to other _vehicles_ 
(non-electric) is practically nonexistent.

If the complaint is that it's the loudest EV on the road, but even the loudest 
EV is still one of the quietest cars on the road...well

b&
-- next part --
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 801 bytes
Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail
URL: 
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20151113/d0af49f9/attachment.pgp>
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

[EVDL] American Family Ins. Scooter Plastics not covered

2015-11-13 Thread ken via EV

 When my SCOOTER not motorcycle fell over while parked on the side of the
road, the wind came along blew it over and it cracked the plastics. Well
to my SCHOCK American Family Ins. considers the Plastics as being  FARING
and is not covered under the standard policy.!! I said I don't have an
added handle bar Farings, crash bars, etc..  the little trunk on the back
got somewhat cracked, but I guess thats an "add-on".  I said the plastics
are where you put your Feet, and where you Sit and the Scooter come from
the  Factory that way as a whole stock bike!!  Again American Family Ins.
said "Its FARING its not covered" !!  you'll have to get extra coverage
for that ...   Check with your insuance company to make sure Standards
Plastics are covered!! This could apply to fiber glass bodies on 2 and 3
wheeled Evs . Or maybe even Kit Cars where the Non stardard passenger
sitting or covers are involved .

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

[EVDL] EV registration or sales by State

2015-11-13 Thread Gerald Fittipaldi via EV

I'm curious to see how different states match up against one another in terms 
of total EV sales. Even more interesting would be a breakdown of vehicle 
registration by Make/Model for each state. Does anyone know if this type of 
data is public? Thank you for you time.
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20151113/4f37fa46/attachment.htm>
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

[EVDL] Vehicle Noise (was Leaf buying thread0

2015-11-13 Thread John Lussmyer via EV

On Fri Nov 13 09:53:14 PST 2015 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>I am always surprised how much more noise a regular
>ICE vehicle makes and how I in my EV am sitting in total quiet and even
>hear the motor of Hybrids around me turn off while waiting at the light
>while people in their noisy ICE need to turn the volume of music or
>hands free phone conversation way up to hear their partners, while I can
>have a conversation at normal low volume in my car. That is probably
>also why the Leaf seems noisy, because it does not have a noise maker to
>cover the road noise.

Just think what the difference is for me with my EV Truck!
With the EV, you discover that the manual transmission can be quite noisy!  (I 
like to use 4th now, since it is very quiet)
Then I jump into my Diesel truck - and have to crank the stereo up just to be 
able to hear it over the engine noise.


--

Worlds only All Electric F-250 truck! 
http://john.casadelgato.com/Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] 2016 30kWh Leaf : Best year to buy ...

On Nov 13, 2015, at 10:53 AM, Cor van de Water via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> Most
> manufacturers spec a too low tire pressure so that you get a soft and
> quiet ride, but pump the tires to the pressure that they have a long
> life (you can easily have a difference of 2 times in tire life, between
> recommended and optimal pressure!) and the ride becomes harsher and
> noisier.

Perhaps getting even further off-topic...but are there any preferred strategies 
amongst those here for optimizing tire pressure?

I'm currently planning on using one of those cheap infrared gun-type devices to 
measure the temperature gradient across the tread and adjusting the pressure 
until it's as even as possible -- increase the pressure if the center of the 
tread is cooler than the outside edges, decrease it if the opposite. And, of 
course, measuring the temperature by the side of the road right after a few 
minutes of typical driving.

Any better suggestions...?

b&
-- next part --
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 801 bytes
Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail
URL: 
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20151113/9852088b/attachment.pgp>
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] 2016 30kWh Leaf : Best year to buy ...


On 11/13/15 10:37 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

This is getting OT but I want to point out that the instrumentation
issue goes beyond the SOC meter.

- all buttons for radio, heat, settings, etc. look virtually identical;
you have to memorize them before you can safely drive the car.  All
labels are text with no or minimal graphics, so you have to actually
read them rather than identify by shape or icon.


True, but the physical control grouping is mostly helpful and easy to 
become accustomed to, for me. Radio controls on the left (except for 
tuning controls), menu stuff on the right. The temp controls are color 
coded.


On the left side of the dash, left of the wheel, I don't change those 
controls while driving except steering wheel heat, which is a bit 
awkward since it's to the right of that group and behind the wheel.


Here's a pic that shows the top part of the center dash controls:

http://www.nissanusa.com/content/dam/nissan/vehicles/2016/leaf/colors-photos/interior-photos/004_large.jpg


- in order to view the temperature setting you have to change the
temperature - you can't just view the current setting.


True, although if you have the status screen showing, the temp display 
may persist (I'll have to look next time I drive).



- There is no virtual (on screen) buttons for graphically setting which
vents should blow air - you have to cycle through.  Well, sort of -
there are some convoluted operations for turning on defrost...


True, there's one button for cycling through the vent options, and the 
screen shows the options as you are cycling.


There's a separate button for windshield defrost and another for rear 
window defrost, that's easy enough. To get heat to hit the windshield 
ongoing, the cycling button isn't that hard to use.



- The steering wheel controls have micro sized font on them which can
only be seen in direct sunlight.


True, but the control grouping/physical locations make them easy to use, 
once you know what they do.



- The map application is utterly useless.  I won't enumerate here but I
can probably list a dozen significant faults.


I use it rarely, but it can be useful for seeing the names of cross 
streets coming up. If I didn't have my phone I'd use it more, but the 
phone is better.



- The car has two clocks which run entirely independently and must be
set through two different mechanisms.


Good point.


- Settings, such as the resetting the trip odometer or the average
mile/kwh, are controlled from a small obscure panel below and to the
left of the steering wheel. Very hard to see and there are only four
buttons so you spend a lot of time clicking to cycle through options.
Not a good idea to do while you're driving.


True. I only really use the upper left button, and rarely, since I 
mostly leave it on the percentage-of-charge display option.



- What else?  These are off the top of my head !


Setting the timers is a bit cumbersome.

So yes, the LEAF's dash could be improved. I don't find it to be 
horrible, though. What car has nailed these issues for comparison sake? 
What should Nissan look to as an example of dash controls done right?


For me, the 2013+ percent-of-charge display is something I would really 
miss in the 2011/12 models.


And despite some valid criticisms, I think the heat/AC, radio and cruise 
controls (what I use most often), are reasonably easy to find and 
operate. I wouldn't dissuade anyone from buying a LEAF based on the dash 
controls.


Cheers,
 -Jamie
 www.JamieKrutz.com



Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Jamie K via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Sent: 13-Nov-15 9:26:08 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2016 30kWh Leaf : Best year to buy ...


On 11/13/15 10:13 AM, Willie2 via EV wrote:

On 11/13/2015 11:08 AM, Jamie K via EV wrote:

On 11/13/15 9:04 AM, Cruisin via EV wrote:

Regardless where you buy a Leaf at, take note of the high pitch wine
sound
from the motor. VERY aggravating to most people.


I can't speak for most people but I doubt that's true. Our 2013 a
typical understated EV "jet-like" sound. Some may find it annoying,
some may find it thrilling, some may not really notice it.

My hearing is poor, especially at high frequencies, but.
I never noticed any noise on my first year Leaf.  Nor did anyone else
comment on noise.  IMHO, of FAR more concern is crappy instrumentation
and crappy manufacturer support.


The main instrumentation complaint was addressed in the 2013+ models
when they added a useful percentage-of-charge display option. I've
read that the guess-o-meter was also improved to be less sporadic.

So, better instrumentation is one reason to consider 2013+ models over
2011/12 models.

The biggest complaints about manufacturer support likely come from
owners of 2011/12 models in hot climates where battery degradation was
a problem. From comments on forums, some feel their problem was
eventually resolved with extended warranty battery

Re: [EVDL] 2016 30kWh Leaf : Best year to buy ...

2015-11-13 Thread Brandon Hines via EV

Peri,

Most of your complaints seem odd.  There is a great amount of room for
improvement, but overall things work as well or better than most other
cars especially since many other cars simply do not have all of these
features.

On 11/13/2015 11:37 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
> This is getting OT but I want to point out that the instrumentation
> issue goes beyond the SOC meter.
>
> - all buttons for radio, heat, settings, etc. look virtually
> identical; you have to memorize them before you can safely drive the
> car.  All labels are text with no or minimal graphics, so you have to
> actually read them rather than identify by shape or icon.
You must be kidding.  Are you referring to the touch screen controls or
the large physical controls?  The touch screen UI leaves a lot to be
desired, but I have found very little need to interact with it while
driving.   I think that the only times I typically have to touch the
screen are to dismiss that annoying start-up notice and to call someone
using the address book.

Speaking of address book, I never figured out the voice activation
system.  Now that is one absolutely horribly implemented feature, but
completely unnecessary and it does not diminish the rest of the car. 

> - in order to view the temperature setting you have to change the
> temperature - you can't just view the current setting.

You are correct with this one.  Although my Leaf is the first car that
ever had a temperature readout at all.  Every other car I have owned let
me select the size of the dot and guess what that dot meant.

> - There is no virtual (on screen) buttons for graphically setting
> which vents should blow air - you have to cycle through.  Well, sort
> of - there are some convoluted operations for turning on defrost...
What about the big physical defrost button below the screen?  Or the
physical levers underneath each vent?  Why bother with the screen at all?

> - The steering wheel controls have micro sized font on them which can
> only be seen in direct sunlight.

I found the steering wheel controls to be well designed and easy to
use.  My complaint is that I wish the steering wheel controls could
control more.  The buttons seem to be single function. 

> - The map application is utterly useless.  I won't enumerate here but
> I can probably list a dozen significant faults.

Compared to my other maps in car systems the Leaf is not bad.  It
doesn't compare to a Tesla, but I much prefer it over VW, Ford or Toyota
maps that I have seen.  Now the charge station locator on the map is
certainly useless, I'll grant you that.

> - The car has two clocks which run entirely independently and must be
> set through two different mechanisms.

This one is annoying . . . twice a year.

> - Settings, such as the resetting the trip odometer or the average
> mile/kwh, are controlled from a small obscure panel below and to the
> left of the steering wheel. Very hard to see and there are only four
> buttons so you spend a lot of time clicking to cycle through options. 
> Not a good idea to do while you're driving.
>

This is a reasonable complaint.

> - What else?  These are off the top of my head !

I would give the Leaf controls a solid B to B+.  Not in the same class
as Tesla or high-end cars, but absolutely competes within its class as
far as usability.

>
> Peri
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Jamie K via EV" 
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
> Sent: 13-Nov-15 9:26:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2016 30kWh Leaf : Best year to buy ...
>
>> On 11/13/15 10:13 AM, Willie2 via EV wrote:
>>> On 11/13/2015 11:08 AM, Jamie K via EV wrote:
 On 11/13/15 9:04 AM, Cruisin via EV wrote:
> Regardless where you buy a Leaf at, take note of the high pitch wine
> sound
> from the motor. VERY aggravating to most people.

 I can't speak for most people but I doubt that's true. Our 2013 a
 typical understated EV "jet-like" sound. Some may find it annoying,
 some may find it thrilling, some may not really notice it.
>>> My hearing is poor, especially at high frequencies, but.
>>> I never noticed any noise on my first year Leaf.  Nor did anyone else
>>> comment on noise.  IMHO, of FAR more concern is crappy instrumentation
>>> and crappy manufacturer support.
>>
>> The main instrumentation complaint was addressed in the 2013+ models
>> when they added a useful percentage-of-charge display option. I've
>> read that the guess-o-meter was also improved to be less sporadic.
>>
>> So, better instrumentation is one reason to consider 2013+ models
>> over 2011/12 models.
>>
>> The biggest complaints about manufacturer support likely come from
>> owners of 2011/12 models in hot climates where battery degradation
>> was a problem. From comments on forums, some feel their problem was
>> eventually resolved with extended warranty battery replacement with
>> the "lizard" battery, but others don't feel Nissan really stepped up.
>>
>>

Re: [EVDL] 2016 30kWh Leaf : Best year to buy ...



I'd lean more toward Brandon's overall "B" than Peri's "mediocre" rating 
for the LEAF's dash controls.


I have a 2013 and Peri has a 2011, so there are a few differences, the 
biggest being the welcome addition of a charge percentage readout on the 
2013. Although the ability to turn off the pedestrian warning was 
removed, so count that as a plus for the 2011.


When driving, the controls I actually use are generally not distracting. 
Radio, cruise, internal/external vent, wipers, heat/AC.


The steering wheel heat button is an exception, and if I want to bring 
up the energy usage screen it would be nice to have a single button for 
that (the status screen comes close).


Cheers,
 -Jamie
 www.JamieKrutz.com



On 11/13/15 1:10 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

Well, I bought the car in 2011.  It's a lot better than anything I could
have built, especially since I don't have the place to work on anything.
  Overall I'm happy with it and glad I bought it.

My point is that they did a very mediocre job on their instrumentation.
One can rationalize and dismiss their poor designs but they are still
that - poor designs.  Even on their ICE cars, they have better designs.
Perhaps they wanted the Leaf to look different and broke all the
patterns of familiarity to do that.

My feeling is that, when driving, you should be putting your attention
on driving.  Any control system which requires more than a quick glace
is unnecessarily unsafe.

Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Brandon Hines" 
To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion
List" 
Sent: 13-Nov-15 10:32:50 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2016 30kWh Leaf : Best year to buy ...


Peri,

Most of your complaints seem odd.  There is a great amount of room for
improvement, but overall things work as well or better than most other
cars especially since many other cars simply do not have all of these
features.

On 11/13/2015 11:37 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

 This is getting OT but I want to point out that the instrumentation
 issue goes beyond the SOC meter.

 - all buttons for radio, heat, settings, etc. look virtually
 identical; you have to memorize them before you can safely drive the
 car.  All labels are text with no or minimal graphics, so you have to
 actually read them rather than identify by shape or icon.

You must be kidding.  Are you referring to the touch screen controls or
the large physical controls?  The touch screen UI leaves a lot to be
desired, but I have found very little need to interact with it while
driving.   I think that the only times I typically have to touch the
screen are to dismiss that annoying start-up notice and to call someone
using the address book.

Speaking of address book, I never figured out the voice activation
system.  Now that is one absolutely horribly implemented feature, but
completely unnecessary and it does not diminish the rest of the car.


 - in order to view the temperature setting you have to change the
 temperature - you can't just view the current setting.


You are correct with this one.  Although my Leaf is the first car that
ever had a temperature readout at all.  Every other car I have owned let
me select the size of the dot and guess what that dot meant.


 - There is no virtual (on screen) buttons for graphically setting
 which vents should blow air - you have to cycle through.  Well, sort
 of - there are some convoluted operations for turning on defrost...

What about the big physical defrost button below the screen?  Or the
physical levers underneath each vent?  Why bother with the screen at all?


 - The steering wheel controls have micro sized font on them which can
 only be seen in direct sunlight.


I found the steering wheel controls to be well designed and easy to
use.  My complaint is that I wish the steering wheel controls could
control more.  The buttons seem to be single function.


 - The map application is utterly useless.  I won't enumerate here but
 I can probably list a dozen significant faults.


Compared to my other maps in car systems the Leaf is not bad.  It
doesn't compare to a Tesla, but I much prefer it over VW, Ford or Toyota
maps that I have seen.  Now the charge station locator on the map is
certainly useless, I'll grant you that.


 - The car has two clocks which run entirely independently and must be
 set through two different mechanisms.


This one is annoying . . . twice a year.


 - Settings, such as the resetting the trip odometer or the average
 mile/kwh, are controlled from a small obscure panel below and to the
 left of the steering wheel. Very hard to see and there are only four
 buttons so you spend a lot of time clicking to cycle through options.
 Not a good idea to do while you're driving.



This is a reasonable complaint.


 - What else?  These are off the top of my head !


I would give the Leaf controls a solid B to B+.  Not in the same class
as Tesla or high-end cars, but absolutely competes

[EVDL] The cell phone "app" (was: Leaf : Best year to buy ...)

2015-11-13 Thread Bill Dube via EV

The feature I value the most is the cell phone app that communicates 
with the car. The base model (without navigation) deletes this app 
and I can't imagine life without it. You can check on your car from 
anywhere in the world. Don't get a Leaf without navigation.


You can turn on the heat (or A/C) while you are eating breakfast and 
the car is still plugged in. If you wish, the app will message you 
when your Leaf is; Full, Unplugged, Charger On, Heat Off, Heat On, 
etc. You can also tell the state of charge and how long until it is 
full, remotely. I've used this feature when my Leaf was parked at the 
airport and I was flying in from another state. I checked the SOC 
with my tablet to be sure that the parking folks had plugged my Leaf 
in and it would be full when I arrived to pick it up. (Canape 
Parking. Great outfit. 
http://canopyairportparking.com/green-parking/juice-bar-ev-charging-stations/)


I would hesitate to get a 2011 Leaf unless you get a _smoking_ good 
deal. Nissan was still learning to make EV's in 2011 and they needed 
a "learner" model. 2012 is better, with a battery heater and some 
improvements. 2013 is better yet, with a _much_ more efficient heater 
and still more improvements. Every year newer is better, with 2016 
making a big leap with a 30 kWh battery.


I could never hope to convert a car that would be anywhere as nice as 
a Leaf. I definitely could not get the same features as the Leaf in a 
conversion for the same money, for sure.


What I also find particularly pleasant is the total absence of 
scheduled maintenance. No tune ups. No oil changes. No nothing. You 
rotate the tires and that is it.


Bill Dube'

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] American Family Ins. Scooter Plastics not covered

2015-11-13 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV

I sure don’t understand this take on insurance.

Insurance is for catastrophic loss.  It is not for routine little dings
and things.  If one makes such claims, their insurance rates will be
elevated so high as to pay many times over for that initial claim.

Where did the American psyche begin to misunderstand insurence and think
that it is a piggy bank for almost anything?  That attitude is what drives
up insurance rates so high.

I learned a long time ago, even a phone call to an insurance company just
to ASK about a possible claim immediately goes ON THE RECORD and is used
to raise your rates, EVEN if you don’t make the claim.  Their response is,
well, your phone call gave us knowledge about damage, and even if you do
not claim it, it has raised your statistical risk.  Hence your increased
rates.

Actually, I called when a tree fell on the edge of my roof.  I asked about
the fence, the roof, the trim, the dent in the car, etc..  Finally decided
I could fix them all in a few hours the next weekend.  Then months later
saw my rates go up, because EACH of those questions during the SAME phone
call were counted as SEPARATE "claims".

Boy I sure would NEVER make a claim for anything not costing less than
half the price of the car...

One ends up paying insurance for about 50 years or so... and if every
nickle and dime adds to your rate over time, you would be foolish to make
such minor claims (no matter what they try to sell you on the phone)...

They are in this business for one thing.  Profit.  Don't add that by
making dimestore claims...

Confused...
Sorry for the rant.  I'm sure it probably does not apply in this case.
Nothing personal

Bob

-Original Message-
 When my SCOOTER not motorcycle fell over while parked on the side of the
road, the wind came along blew it over and it cracked the plastics. Well
to my SCHOCK American Family Ins. considers the Plastics as being  FARING
and is not covered under the standard policy.!! I said I don't have an
added handle bar Farings, crash bars, etc..  the little trunk on the back
got somewhat cracked, but I guess thats an "add-on".  I said the plastics
are where you put your Feet, and where you Sit and the Scooter come from
the  Factory that way as a whole stock bike!!  Again American Family Ins.
said "Its FARING its not covered" !!  you'll have to get extra coverage
for that ...   Check with your insuance company to make sure Standards
Plastics are covered!! This could apply to fiber glass bodies on 2 and 3
wheeled Evs . Or maybe even Kit Cars where the Non stardard passenger
sitting or covers are involved .

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag
racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] 2016 30kWh Leaf : Best year to buy ...

2015-11-13 Thread Peri Hartman via EV

Well, I bought the car in 2011.  It's a lot better than anything I could 
have built, especially since I don't have the place to work on anything. 
 Overall I'm happy with it and glad I bought it.


My point is that they did a very mediocre job on their instrumentation.  
One can rationalize and dismiss their poor designs but they are still 
that - poor designs.  Even on their ICE cars, they have better designs.  
Perhaps they wanted the Leaf to look different and broke all the 
patterns of familiarity to do that.


My feeling is that, when driving, you should be putting your attention 
on driving.  Any control system which requires more than a quick glace 
is unnecessarily unsafe.


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Brandon Hines" 
To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List" 

Sent: 13-Nov-15 10:32:50 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2016 30kWh Leaf : Best year to buy ...


Peri,

Most of your complaints seem odd.  There is a great amount of room for
improvement, but overall things work as well or better than most other
cars especially since many other cars simply do not have all of these
features.

On 11/13/2015 11:37 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

 This is getting OT but I want to point out that the instrumentation
 issue goes beyond the SOC meter.

 - all buttons for radio, heat, settings, etc. look virtually
 identical; you have to memorize them before you can safely drive the
 car.  All labels are text with no or minimal graphics, so you have to
 actually read them rather than identify by shape or icon.

You must be kidding.  Are you referring to the touch screen controls or
the large physical controls?  The touch screen UI leaves a lot to be
desired, but I have found very little need to interact with it while
driving.   I think that the only times I typically have to touch the
screen are to dismiss that annoying start-up notice and to call someone
using the address book.

Speaking of address book, I never figured out the voice activation
system.  Now that is one absolutely horribly implemented feature, but
completely unnecessary and it does not diminish the rest of the car.


 - in order to view the temperature setting you have to change the
 temperature - you can't just view the current setting.


You are correct with this one.  Although my Leaf is the first car that
ever had a temperature readout at all.  Every other car I have owned 
let

me select the size of the dot and guess what that dot meant.


 - There is no virtual (on screen) buttons for graphically setting
 which vents should blow air - you have to cycle through.  Well, sort
 of - there are some convoluted operations for turning on defrost...

What about the big physical defrost button below the screen?  Or the
physical levers underneath each vent?  Why bother with the screen at 
all?



 - The steering wheel controls have micro sized font on them which can
 only be seen in direct sunlight.


I found the steering wheel controls to be well designed and easy to
use.  My complaint is that I wish the steering wheel controls could
control more.  The buttons seem to be single function.


 - The map application is utterly useless.  I won't enumerate here but
 I can probably list a dozen significant faults.


Compared to my other maps in car systems the Leaf is not bad.  It
doesn't compare to a Tesla, but I much prefer it over VW, Ford or 
Toyota

maps that I have seen.  Now the charge station locator on the map is
certainly useless, I'll grant you that.


 - The car has two clocks which run entirely independently and must be
 set through two different mechanisms.


This one is annoying . . . twice a year.


 - Settings, such as the resetting the trip odometer or the average
 mile/kwh, are controlled from a small obscure panel below and to the
 left of the steering wheel. Very hard to see and there are only four
 buttons so you spend a lot of time clicking to cycle through options.
 Not a good idea to do while you're driving.



This is a reasonable complaint.


 - What else?  These are off the top of my head !


I would give the Leaf controls a solid B to B+.  Not in the same class
as Tesla or high-end cars, but absolutely competes within its class as
far as usability.



 Peri

 -- Original Message --
 From: "Jamie K via EV" 
 To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
 Sent: 13-Nov-15 9:26:08 AM
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2016 30kWh Leaf : Best year to buy ...


 On 11/13/15 10:13 AM, Willie2 via EV wrote:

 On 11/13/2015 11:08 AM, Jamie K via EV wrote:

 On 11/13/15 9:04 AM, Cruisin via EV wrote:
 Regardless where you buy a Leaf at, take note of the high pitch 
wine

 sound
 from the motor. VERY aggravating to most people.


 I can't speak for most people but I doubt that's true. Our 2013 a
 typical understated EV "jet-like" sound. Some may find it 
annoying,

 some may find it thrilling, some may not really notice it.

 My hearing is

Re: [EVDL] American Family Ins. Scooter Plastics not covered

2015-11-13 Thread Cor van de Water via EV

Agree,
I learned long time ago that you only take insurance on something
when it is either required by law or because you can't pay the damage
when it happens.
If I buy a $3000 car cash and I know that I can easily come up with a
similar amount to buy another car, then I don't insure that car, except
for the liability (and that for more than the minimum, BTW).

If I make a mistake and I dent the bumper of the car in front of me
when I brake too late, my insurance never gets to know, I simply pay
the guy for the inconvenience.

If there is a risk that my house gets destroyed (flood, fire or whatever)
then I have an insurance to cover that risk, so I can continue to have a
roof over my head. If the risk is negligible, for example an all-concrete
apartment on 4th floor in an area without earthquakes and without mortgage then 
I do not have an insurance on that home because there is no reason for it.

I have never financed a vehicle, so I have never insured it other than for 
liability.
In Netherlands the situation of insurance is quite different than USA 
apparently, because the one time that I caused damage to another car and the 
insurance paid it, they explained that I had till the end of the year to decide 
if I wanted to pay the damage myself, which would bring me back to the exact 
position on the bonus/malus ladder as if the accident never happened, or keep 
the insurance payment, which would kick me to a lower position and increase my 
rates. Before the end of the year I did the calculation, saw that the 
difference in premium was bigger than the claim, so I paid it and my premium 
was the same after as before. It helps when a country has laws that govern the 
industry into clearly regulated rules how they are allowed to charge, change 
and exchange customers and what benefits the customers are entitled to after a 
certain number of years paying premium and not claiming. It avoids these sleazy 
tactics that Bob had to suffer through.

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and 
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received this 
message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any unauthorized 
use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is 
prohibited.


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Robert Bruninga via EV
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2015 1:48 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] American Family Ins. Scooter Plastics not covered

I sure don't understand this take on insurance.

Insurance is for catastrophic loss.  It is not for routine little dings
and things.  If one makes such claims, their insurance rates will be
elevated so high as to pay many times over for that initial claim.

Where did the American psyche begin to misunderstand insurence and think
that it is a piggy bank for almost anything?  That attitude is what drives
up insurance rates so high.

I learned a long time ago, even a phone call to an insurance company just
to ASK about a possible claim immediately goes ON THE RECORD and is used
to raise your rates, EVEN if you don't make the claim.  Their response is,
well, your phone call gave us knowledge about damage, and even if you do
not claim it, it has raised your statistical risk.  Hence your increased
rates.

Actually, I called when a tree fell on the edge of my roof.  I asked about
the fence, the roof, the trim, the dent in the car, etc..  Finally decided
I could fix them all in a few hours the next weekend.  Then months later
saw my rates go up, because EACH of those questions during the SAME phone
call were counted as SEPARATE "claims".

Boy I sure would NEVER make a claim for anything not costing less than
half the price of the car...

One ends up paying insurance for about 50 years or so... and if every
nickle and dime adds to your rate over time, you would be foolish to make
such minor claims (no matter what they try to sell you on the phone)...

They are in this business for one thing.  Profit.  Don't add that by
making dimestore claims...

Confused...
Sorry for the rant.  I'm sure it probably does not apply in this case.
Nothing personal

Bob

-Original Message-
 When my SCOOTER not motorcycle fell over while parked on the side of the
road, the wind came along blew it over and it cracked the plastics. Well
to my SCHOCK American Family Ins. considers the Plastics as being  FARING
and is not covered under the standard policy.!! I said I don't have an
added handle bar Farings, crash bars, etc..  the little trunk on the back
got somewhat cracked, but I guess thats an "add-on".  I said the plastics
are where you put your Feet, and where you Sit and the Scooter come from
the  Factory that way

Re: [EVDL] The cell phone "app"