[EVDL] $49mo, $0dwn 500e EV deal @Costa_Mesa-CA dealer> ends after Sunday

[brucedp5 via EV]

This one is time limited, thus just too hot to wait until tonight, see the
post:

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-49mo-0dwn-500e-EV-deal-ends-11-28-Costa-Mesa-CA-dealer-r-84mi-no-L3-td4684652.html
EVLN: $49mo,$0dwn 500e EV deal ends 11/28 @Costa_Mesa-CA dealer r:84mi no-L3

I will include it in tonight's EVLN items, but I wanted to get the word out
asap.
A Los Angeles area Fiat dealership is almost giving away a 500e EV at that
low lease price.
And according to a yelp entry, it isn't the 1st time they have done this. 

IMO, if you are in looking to bag an EV for a 3 year lease (until the
Tesla-3 or Bolt becomes available in your area) see the above URL for their
contact info (they are open tonight and tomorrow). 

Who knows, you could bag one, flat bed transport it home (only has L2-6kW,
no L3 ability), 
and be having an EV-grin before you knew it :-)



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Re: [EVDL] OT Reversible DC motor controller

[ROBERT via EV]

Michael,  If you do not want to reverse the motor while it is running, you can 
buy a non-reversing controller and install a FWD/OFF/REV switch between the 
controller and the motor.




From: EV  on behalf of Michael Hurley via EV 

Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 3:30 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] OT Reversible DC motor controller

I have a controller question, though it's not for any kind of vehicle. I have 
an Atlas metalworking lathe. I'd like to put a motor on the lead screw to get 
much lower traversing speeds than the lathe's internal gearbox will allow for. 
This is a relatively common modification to these little lathes. I have a 
190RPM 12V DC gearmotor with a stall current of 25A that I'd like to use. It 
was a seat adjustment motor for a car, so it should be plenty torquey enough 
for this job. Does anyone know of an off-the-shelf, continuous-duty, reversing 
controller that would work with this type of motor? I can provide an AC-DC 
power supply to run it off of 110VAC. I just need the controller itself and 
don't really feel up to the job of building my own.

Thanks in advance for any help anyone may be able to provide!
--
   Auf wiedersehen!
Hurley
  __
  "..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."

  "Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
  of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
  women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"

  "..No."

  "Why am I the only person that has that dream?"

   -Real Genius

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Re: [EVDL] Towing 4 wheels down Spark EV or Leaf

[Cor van de Water via EV]

I have flat-towed EVs without disconnecting the drive shaft or motor
leads, but the one that I towed over 10 miles on the freeway (at night
and staying below 50 MPH) had an induction motor, so it would not have
any magnetic field while turning and thus no losses in the motor or risk
of controller-blowing short circuit currents.
I do not know about the iMiev motor but the Leaf has a PMAC (Permanent
Magnet AC) motor, just like the Prius. (The Prius actually has two, but
that is not relevant here)
I have flat-towed the Prius, but I made sure to stay below 35-40 MPH
since the Prius' motor will generate a (high) voltage while turning and
I did not want to blow the controller from overvoltage (and I did not
want to disconnect the leads of the two motors). I know that the Prius
uses Field Weakening by controlling the stator current in a way that
counter-acts the magnetic field of the rotor magnets, in order to
achieve the highest RPMs.
Since the controller is off while towing, the output voltage of the
motors would actually be higher than when in operation, so I wanted to
stay away from the redline of the motors, as that would definitely send
too high voltage to the controller.

The Leaf's motor redline is calculated to be at 94 MPH so I suspect that
flat-towing at (much) lower speed may be safe, but as others have
pointed out: the motor might still warm up from Eddy current losses
since the PM motor's losses are always-on.
Then, because the controller is not on, it might have a funny reaction
to the motor developing a (high) voltage. In theory the motor voltage
could be rectified by the output transistors and start to half-power the
controller, which is in an undefined state and this could cause the
controller to drive output transistors so that they form a short-circuit
and since the towing vehicle may not be able to stop quickly enough when
noticing (or not) that something is dragging, this could lead to
inverter-destroying large short circuit current.

I see two ways to avoid this - either use a tow dolly and put the driven
wheels on it (cost of a tow dolly is not outrageous) or
you make sure the 12V aux battery in the EV is strong and you tow it a
limited distance in "Neutral" so the controller is on and running and
the coolant pump is on and running, but the motor is not dragging from
regen braking.
I have towed a Leaf on a tow dolly from San Diego to Bay Area (over 500
miles) and I would not think about flat-towing it anywhere close to that
distance. A few miles, OK.
Also, because I flat-tow with a (shortish) rope so ~35 is the highest
speed that you can safely go and not be sure that the tow will hit the
towing vehicle before the driver in the towed vehicle has a chance to
respond (brake) in an emergency.
(Note that the rope must be short enough that it is impossible for a car
to merge between the two vehiles).

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Mark Hanson via
EV
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 4:47 AM
To: Bill Dube
Cc: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Towing 4 wheels down Spark EV or Leaf

Thanks Bill
I'm used to towing my conversions over the years to shows further away
than range and also occasionally home to fix when something burps. I
don't feel comfortable not having that option with factory EV s.  It
sounds like even if you were able to disconnect the motor wires there
could be overheating on the motor 
Best regards 
Mark

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 25, 2016, at 10:34 PM, Bill Dube 
wrote:
> 
>I'm going to take a guess that the coolant pump should be on and
circulating coolant to the motor and controller. When you spin a PM
motor, even when it is off, it still generates some amount heat due to
eddy current losses. This would be especially true at sustained highway
speeds.
> 
>   When you put the car in "neutral" you aren't really disconnecting
anything mechanical. (The motor still spins.) You are just signalling
the motor controller not to do anything, like use the generated power to
charge the battery (regen).
> 
>However, if you can actually turn on the vehicle, and the wheels
would roll correctly, why would you need to have it towed?
> 
> Bill D.
> 
>> On 11/25/2016 5:51 PM, Mark Hanson via EV wrote:
>> I know the operator manuals on my Leaf and Spark EV say they can't be
towed with 4 wheels down but why not can't you just put it in neutral or
disconnect the motor 

Re: [EVDL] OT Reversible DC motor controller

[Sabrina Holmes via EV]

Michael, best movie ever (Real Genius).

On Sat, Nov 26, 2016 at 3:30 PM, Michael Hurley via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
wrote:

> I have a controller question, though it’s not for any kind of vehicle. I
> have an Atlas metalworking lathe. I’d like to put a motor on the lead screw
> to get much lower traversing speeds than the lathe’s internal gearbox will
> allow for. This is a relatively common modification to these little lathes.
> I have a 190RPM 12V DC gearmotor with a stall current of 25A that I’d like
> to use. It was a seat adjustment motor for a car, so it should be plenty
> torquey enough for this job. Does anyone know of an off-the-shelf,
> continuous-duty, reversing controller that would work with this type of
> motor? I can provide an AC-DC power supply to run it off of 110VAC. I just
> need the controller itself and don’t really feel up to the job of building
> my own.
>
> Thanks in advance for any help anyone may be able to provide!
> --
>Auf wiedersehen!
> Hurley
>   __
>   "..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
>
>   "Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
>   of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
>   women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"
>
>   "..No."
>
>   "Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
>
>-Real Genius
>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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> group/NEDRA)
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] OT Reversible DC motor controller

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Michael,

For 25A it should be OK to use a controller as used for RC (Remote
Control) or bike/scooter motors, though the majority of those
controllers are for AC motors, not DC.
Before going down the path of how to provide reversing, we first need to
know how you are going to control the controller: is there a speed
control dial and a direction switch or how is the setup? Is it all
digital (CNC type) control?

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
this message is prohibited.


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Michael Hurley
via EV
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 2:30 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] OT Reversible DC motor controller

I have a controller question, though it's not for any kind of vehicle. I
have an Atlas metalworking lathe. I'd like to put a motor on the lead
screw to get much lower traversing speeds than the lathe's internal
gearbox will allow for. This is a relatively common modification to
these little lathes. I have a 190RPM 12V DC gearmotor with a stall
current of 25A that I'd like to use. It was a seat adjustment motor for
a car, so it should be plenty torquey enough for this job. Does anyone
know of an off-the-shelf, continuous-duty, reversing controller that
would work with this type of motor? I can provide an AC-DC power supply
to run it off of 110VAC. I just need the controller itself and don't
really feel up to the job of building my own.

Thanks in advance for any help anyone may be able to provide!
--
   Auf wiedersehen!
Hurley
  __
  "..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."

  "Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort 
  of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked 
  women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"

  "..No."

  "Why am I the only person that has that dream?"

   -Real Genius

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[EVDL] OT Reversible DC motor controller

[Michael Hurley via EV]

I have a controller question, though it’s not for any kind of vehicle. I have 
an Atlas metalworking lathe. I’d like to put a motor on the lead screw to get 
much lower traversing speeds than the lathe’s internal gearbox will allow for. 
This is a relatively common modification to these little lathes. I have a 
190RPM 12V DC gearmotor with a stall current of 25A that I’d like to use. It 
was a seat adjustment motor for a car, so it should be plenty torquey enough 
for this job. Does anyone know of an off-the-shelf, continuous-duty, reversing 
controller that would work with this type of motor? I can provide an AC-DC 
power supply to run it off of 110VAC. I just need the controller itself and 
don’t really feel up to the job of building my own.

Thanks in advance for any help anyone may be able to provide!
--
   Auf wiedersehen!
Hurley
  __
  "..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."

  "Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort 
  of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked 
  women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"

  "..No."

  "Why am I the only person that has that dream?"

   -Real Genius

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Re: [EVDL] Towing 4 wheels down Spark EV or Leaf

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

Have you tried asking thie question on one of the net forums dedicated to 
the Spark EV?  

Regardless of where you find the answer, please report back.

Thanks,

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Towing 4 wheels down Spark EV or Leaf

[brucedp5 via EV]

[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Towing-4-wheels-down-Spark-EV-or-Leaf-tp4684633.html
>Mark Hanson via EV Fri, 25 Nov 2016 16:52:54 -0800
I know the operator manuals on my Leaf and Spark EV say they can't be towed 
with 4 wheels down but why not can't you just put it in neutral or
disconnect 
the motor wires?  On all my conversions I've had no problems towing wheels 
down. Both say to use a tow dolly<
] ... (corrections & comments requested)

 For the layman, the four towing methods are:

-tow truck (expensive): can be 2 wheels down, but usually as soon as you
mention an Electric, they send out a flat bed tow truck, so 0 wheels down

-rent a flat bed trailer, 0 wheels down (see link below about rental agent
lies/horror stories)

-rent a tow dolly, 2 wheels down

-tow bar use, 4 wheels down


 Searches on Leaf and iMiev EV towing gave some good links to explore:

https://www.google.com/search?q=tow+leaf+electric
tow leaf electric

https://www.google.com/search?q=tow+imiev+electric
tow imiev electric

 A search on Spark EV towing ... not so much:

https://www.google.com/search?q=tow+Spark+EV
tow Spark EV


>David Nelson via EV Fri, 25 Nov 2016 22:04:51 -0800
How about when towing behind an RV?
I don't see that it would be very hard to program in an in-tow mode
for EVs. The drivetrain could be monitored and cooling could begin as
needed. Also, the OBC could be enabled so that those RVs with some
form of AC on board could at a minimum supply all the energy to keep
the main EV battery and the 12V battery charged up.<

 I agree with David, automakers ought to offer a 4wheels-down tow mode for
when using a tow bar, as in 4-wheels-down. But automakers are slow in
wanting to understand driver's actual needs (they think they know best in
all cases, but they do not drive Electric like we do). I can only suggest
that you send a message to each automaker for the EV(s) own, and also talk
it up on those particular EV forums. Hopefully, there are some automaker
lurkers on them that will eventually read & pick up on our EV-driving needs.

 I am thinking that a production EV set in 4wheels-down tow mode via either
the dash console or via a phone app, would allow a mild regen (no more than
3kW), enough to power the EV and put a slow charge on the EV's pack. How
much regen would be adjustable. The EV would be on enough to protect its
self for this type of travel, but not on enough to steal. And there would be
a sleep option: after 8 hour the EV would shutdown, when turned back on, it
would remind the driver either via the console or the app that the EV was in
4wheels-down tow mode and ask if they want to continue, etc.


 Here some other links to explore:
http://www.gmtruckclub.com/forum/threads/u-haul-wont-rent-me-a-tow-dolly.35013/
(related) u-haul wont rent me a tow dolly

https://www.google.com/search?q=Build+Your+Own+Tow+Dolly
Build Your Own Tow Dolly




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Re: [EVDL] Towing 4 wheels down Spark EV or Leaf

[Mark Hanson via EV]

Thanks Bill
I'm used to towing my conversions over the years to shows further away than 
range and also occasionally home to fix when something burps. I don't feel 
comfortable not having that option with factory EV s.  It sounds like even if 
you were able to disconnect the motor wires there could be overheating on the 
motor 
Best regards 
Mark

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 25, 2016, at 10:34 PM, Bill Dube  wrote:
> 
>I'm going to take a guess that the coolant pump should be on and 
> circulating coolant to the motor and controller. When you spin a PM motor, 
> even when it is off, it still generates some amount heat due to eddy current 
> losses. This would be especially true at sustained highway speeds.
> 
>   When you put the car in "neutral" you aren't really disconnecting anything 
> mechanical. (The motor still spins.) You are just signalling the motor 
> controller not to do anything, like use the generated power to charge the 
> battery (regen).
> 
>However, if you can actually turn on the vehicle, and the wheels would 
> roll correctly, why would you need to have it towed?
> 
> Bill D.
> 
>> On 11/25/2016 5:51 PM, Mark Hanson via EV wrote:
>> I know the operator manuals on my Leaf and Spark EV say they can't be towed 
>> with 4 wheels down but why not can't you just put it in neutral or 
>> disconnect the motor wires?  On all my conversions I've had no problems 
>> towing wheels down. Both say to use a tow dolly
>> Thanks Mark
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
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>> 
>> 
> 
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