Re: [EVDL] A. D. Little EV vs ICE report
An prime example of the misinformation presented in this _non-peer-reviewed_ report shows up on page 7, where the report states: "Survey data reveals that BEVs are driven an average of 27% fewer miles per year than comparable ICEVs, but BEV owners still travel the same total miles as their ICEV counterparts. 6 " Looking up the sited report in footnote #6, "Plug-in vehicle road tax report", it gives zero information about ICEV's or the ICEV annual miles driven. It is entirely about PIHEV"s and BEV's with no mention _whatsoever_ of ICEV's. The source and nature of their ICE vehicle annual miles is conspicuously absent. I wanted to know: What type of ICEV's are included? Over-the-road trucking perhaps? The authors go on to assume, without supporting data, that the EV owner would need "make up" these "lost" EV miles using public transportation or a rental car. This conjecture by the authors has no basis in reality. I don't drive my EV any less that I used to drive my ICE. When my wife and I drive together, or when we have both cars to choose from, we preferentially drive the EV, instead of our Prius. Why wouldn't we? It is cheaper to drive. The EV clocks more miles than the HEV. I also guffawed at figure #3, Its shows a number days lost for the replacement battery for the BEV, but neglects the 4 or5 lead acid starting batteries the ICE will have to replace over its lifespan, that will likely cost a day each to replace. Where is the time lost for ICE repairs in this graph, like the catalytic converter, exhaust system, oil changes, tune-ups, fuel system, etc.? The report was written by a person that has never driven an electric car for any length of time, obviously. I guess this is how "fake news" originates. Bill D. On 12/11/2016 8:12 PM, paul dove via EV wrote: ADL is an obvious think tank. I don't know for sure if they are biased but I have never seen a serious research paper list car and driver magazine as a source. I suspect oil company funding. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 11, 2016, at 5:29 PM, Joe Fields via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: Recently I saw this report from the management consulting firm A. D. Little referenced in a Wall Street Journal opinion piece by Holman W. Jenkins, Jr.: http://www.adlittle.us/uploads/tx_extthoughtleadership/ADL_BEVs_vs_ICEVs_FINAL_November_292016.pdf The report claims that BEVs have only a slight margin over ICEs in terms of greenhouse gas reduction (23%) and that BEVs are significantly more polluting overall. To quote the WSJ article: "... its total “human toxicity”—mainly due to heavy metals and graphite—will be three to five times greater." I don't know anything about ADL's reputation, but this analysis appears to be strangely biased. For instance my conversion's LiFePO4 cells don't contain ANY heavy metals, but the catalytic converter in my gas car definitely does contain platinum and palladium (which are obtained via notoriously polluting mining operations...) So two questions for the list: Is there a reputable source that would refute this analysis? Is there something I don't know about ADL's motivations for smearing EVs? -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161211/442de931/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] A. D. Little EV vs ICE report
ADL is an obvious think tank. I don't know for sure if they are biased but I have never seen a serious research paper list car and driver magazine as a source. I suspect oil company funding. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 11, 2016, at 5:29 PM, Joe Fields via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > > Recently I saw this report from the management consulting firm A. D. Little > referenced in a Wall Street Journal opinion piece by Holman W. Jenkins, Jr.: > > http://www.adlittle.us/uploads/tx_extthoughtleadership/ADL_BEVs_vs_ICEVs_FINAL_November_292016.pdf > > The report claims that BEVs have only a slight margin over ICEs in terms of > greenhouse gas reduction (23%) and that BEVs are significantly more > polluting overall. To quote the WSJ article: > > "... its total “human toxicity”—mainly due to heavy metals and > graphite—will be three to five times greater." > > I don't know anything about ADL's reputation, but this analysis appears to > be strangely biased. For instance my conversion's LiFePO4 cells don't > contain ANY heavy metals, but the catalytic converter in my gas car > definitely does contain platinum and palladium (which are obtained via > notoriously polluting mining operations...) > > So two questions for the list: > > Is there a reputable source that would refute this analysis? > > Is there something I don't know about ADL's motivations for smearing EVs? > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161211/442de931/attachment.htm> > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] A. D. Little EV vs ICE report
Also: In 2001, ADL wrote a Philip Morris-funded report saying that smoking can help Czech economy:Public Finance Balance of Smoking in the Czech Republic <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Finance_Balance_of_Smoking_in_the_Czech_Republic>. Cheers On 12/11/16 6:40 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: According to this Wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_D._Little A.D.Little was bought by Paris-based Altran Technologies in 2002. "Under Altran's ownership, Arthur D. Little rebuilt its core practices in oil and gas, telecommunications, automotive and manufacturing and chemicals and reopened its US offices. Arthur D. Little continues to be active and recognized for its expertise in areas combining aspects of technology, innovation, and strategy." In my opinion, that pretty much sums it up. Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Joe Fields via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: ev@lists.evdl.org Cc: Sent: 11-Dec-16 3:29:34 PM Subject: [EVDL] A. D. Little EV vs ICE report Recently I saw this report from the management consulting firm A. D. Little referenced in a Wall Street Journal opinion piece by Holman W. Jenkins, Jr.: http://www.adlittle.us/uploads/tx_extthoughtleadership/ADL_BEVs_vs_ICEVs_FINAL_November_292016.pdf The report claims that BEVs have only a slight margin over ICEs in terms of greenhouse gas reduction (23%) and that BEVs are significantly more polluting overall. To quote the WSJ article: "... its total “human toxicity”—mainly due to heavy metals and graphite—will be three to five times greater." I don't know anything about ADL's reputation, but this analysis appears to be strangely biased. For instance my conversion's LiFePO4 cells don't contain ANY heavy metals, but the catalytic converter in my gas car definitely does contain platinum and palladium (which are obtained via notoriously polluting mining operations...) So two questions for the list: Is there a reputable source that would refute this analysis? Is there something I don't know about ADL's motivations for smearing EVs? -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161211/442de931/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] A. D. Little EV vs ICE report
According to this Wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_D._Little A.D.Little was bought by Paris-based Altran Technologies in 2002. "Under Altran's ownership, Arthur D. Little rebuilt its core practices in oil and gas, telecommunications, automotive and manufacturing and chemicals and reopened its US offices. Arthur D. Little continues to be active and recognized for its expertise in areas combining aspects of technology, innovation, and strategy." In my opinion, that pretty much sums it up. Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Joe Fields via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: ev@lists.evdl.org Cc: Sent: 11-Dec-16 3:29:34 PM Subject: [EVDL] A. D. Little EV vs ICE report Recently I saw this report from the management consulting firm A. D. Little referenced in a Wall Street Journal opinion piece by Holman W. Jenkins, Jr.: http://www.adlittle.us/uploads/tx_extthoughtleadership/ADL_BEVs_vs_ICEVs_FINAL_November_292016.pdf The report claims that BEVs have only a slight margin over ICEs in terms of greenhouse gas reduction (23%) and that BEVs are significantly more polluting overall. To quote the WSJ article: "... its total “human toxicity”—mainly due to heavy metals and graphite—will be three to five times greater." I don't know anything about ADL's reputation, but this analysis appears to be strangely biased. For instance my conversion's LiFePO4 cells don't contain ANY heavy metals, but the catalytic converter in my gas car definitely does contain platinum and palladium (which are obtained via notoriously polluting mining operations...) So two questions for the list: Is there a reputable source that would refute this analysis? Is there something I don't know about ADL's motivations for smearing EVs? -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161211/442de931/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] A. D. Little EV vs ICE report
Recently I saw this report from the management consulting firm A. D. Little referenced in a Wall Street Journal opinion piece by Holman W. Jenkins, Jr.: http://www.adlittle.us/uploads/tx_extthoughtleadership/ADL_BEVs_vs_ICEVs_FINAL_November_292016.pdf The report claims that BEVs have only a slight margin over ICEs in terms of greenhouse gas reduction (23%) and that BEVs are significantly more polluting overall. To quote the WSJ article: "... its total “human toxicity”—mainly due to heavy metals and graphite—will be three to five times greater." I don't know anything about ADL's reputation, but this analysis appears to be strangely biased. For instance my conversion's LiFePO4 cells don't contain ANY heavy metals, but the catalytic converter in my gas car definitely does contain platinum and palladium (which are obtained via notoriously polluting mining operations...) So two questions for the list: Is there a reputable source that would refute this analysis? Is there something I don't know about ADL's motivations for smearing EVs? -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161211/442de931/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Anybody interested in 2011 Leaf with new pack for $8k?
> > > "Do what you can, with what you have, where you are" - Theodore > Roosevelt "We reached the old wolf in time to watch a fierce green fire > dying in her eyes I was young then, and full of trigger-itch; I > thought that because fewer wolves meant more deer, that no wolves would > mean hunters' paradise. But after seeing the green fire die, I sensed > that neither the wolf nor the mountain agreed with such a view." - Aldo > Leopold > > > > On Friday, December 9, 2016 3:27 PM, 63urban via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> > wrote: > > > > > > Cor where are you located again? > > > Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network. > > Original message > From: Cor van de Water via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> > Date: 2016-12-09 4:48 PM (GMT-05:00) > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> > Subject: [EVDL] Anybody interested in 2011 Leaf with new pack for $8k? > > Two months ago I bought a 2011 with a new battery for $8800 so I am not > waiting to buy another Leaf at this moment, > but a local Leaf owner is trying to sell his 2011 Leaf SL (the most > luxury version) for cheap since it lost 3 bars and he > has changed job so he no longer needs it. > I can install new modules in a Leaf battery so the total price comes to > $8k (I should have waited with the other Leaf I guess > but I did not know in advance that this would come around) > so you would end up with a nice Blue 2011 Leaf, I believe it has 63k mi > and no other blemish than a shallow scratch > on the front bumper due to a shopping cart (did not even break the > paint, just left an indent) > and the best is that it will have its original range, some Leaf owners > even report better than original range. > Let me know - don't wait too long with expressing interest as I need to > tell him if I put down a deposit to hold the vehicle, > else he might sell it any day... > > Cor van de Water > Chief Scientist > Proxim Wireless > > office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water > XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info > > http://www.proxim.com <http://www.proxim.com/> > > This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and > proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received > this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any > unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of > this message is prohibited. > > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161209/1b9b > ac75/attachment.htm> > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA?soc_src=mail_trk=ma> ) > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161209/a459 > aaf7/attachment.htm> > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA?soc_src=mail_trk=ma> ) > > > > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161210/bb8a79ea/attachment.htm> > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161211/eafa575d/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20161211
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-JDeere-s-3hr-e-tractor-recharge-time-complaint-gt-Hasn-t-heard-of-L3-450kW-td4684794.html
EVLN: JDeere's 3hr e-tractor recharge time complaint> (?Hasn't heard of
L3-450kW?)
John Deere Reveals a Battery-Powered Farm Tractor
American agricultural machinery manufacturer John Deere showcased its new
prototype battery-electric farm tractor ahead of next month's ...
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Auton-Leaf-tows-3-EVs-Yokohama-jp-plant-to-wharf-for-shipment-td4684793.html
EVLN: Auton-Leaf tows 3 EVs @Yokohama.jp plant to wharf for shipment
Cars without drivers scoot around Nissan plant, towing cars
Nissan testing driverless vehicles for ports, materials handling
... Nissan's flagship electric vehicle the Leaf is being used for the
driverless platform ...
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Turkey-unveils-its-first-fully-homegrown-electric-bus-td4684792.html
EVLN: Turkey unveils its first fully homegrown electric bus
Avenue EV, Turkey's first fully domestic made electric bus, was unveiled at
a ... The passenger cabin offers air conditioning, in-vehicle internet and
data ...
+
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/CEO-Son-wishes-1Million-Ola-rideshare-in-EV-drivers-to-fulfill-his-10B-commitment-td4684791.html
CEO Son wishes 1Million Ola(rideshare.in) EV drivers to fulfill his $10B
commitment
SoftBank founder Masayoshi Son looking to gift a million electric ...
The execution of the said electric vehicle project, he says, will ultimately
end on the shoulders of several stakeholders – the local and central
governments ...
http://evdl.org/evln/
For all EVLN EV-newswire posts
{brucedp.0catch.com}
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Re: [EVDL] Anybody interested in 2011 Leaf with new pack for $8k?
ttery for $8800 so I am not waiting to buy another Leaf at this moment, but a local Leaf owner is trying to sell his 2011 Leaf SL (the most luxury version) for cheap since it lost 3 bars and he has changed job so he no longer needs it. I can install new modules in a Leaf battery so the total price comes to $8k (I should have waited with the other Leaf I guess but I did not know in advance that this would come around) so you would end up with a nice Blue 2011 Leaf, I believe it has 63k mi and no other blemish than a shallow scratch on the front bumper due to a shopping cart (did not even break the paint, just left an indent) and the best is that it will have its original range, some Leaf owners even report better than original range. Let me know - don't wait too long with expressing interest as I need to tell him if I put down a deposit to hold the vehicle, else he might sell it any day... Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com <http://www.proxim.com/> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161209/1b9b ac75/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA?soc_src=mail_trk=ma> ) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161209/a459 aaf7/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA?soc_src=mail_trk=ma> ) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161210/bb8a79ea/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161211/289ae9e2/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
