Re: [EVDL] Regen toll (was: Tesla Y actual wall outlet efficiency)
There are 50 to 60 satellites per launch. So that would be on the range of 800 launches x 425 then divide by 4.6 per car per year and it’s still only 75,000 cars for one year. Space launches are a very small percentage of CO2 contributions. Sent from AT Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Friday, January 7, 2022, 2:20 PM, EV List Lackey via EV wrote: On 7 Jan 2022 at 14:24, paul dove via EV wrote: > Be interested to see those numbers. Sure. Sorry that I didn't save links to my sources, but you're welcome to look them up for confirmation or correction I think that most of them were US federal agencies - DOE, EPA, maybe NASA. Spacex plans to launch 42,000 satellites. (I said 40,000 in a previous post, but I was remembering incorrectly.) I haven't found a time frame for those launches, but the total number is frequently quoted in many news reports. By the way, I'm not an expert, but that is a LOT of orbital congestion, IMO. Each satellite launch releases almost 340 metric tonnes of CO2. That's a total of 14.3 million tonnes. If your number (425 tonnes per launch) is correct, it would be 17.9 million tonnes. To simplify the math, I made a few assumptions and omissions. - Over the period in question, US Tesla sales dominate, therefore I can use US average yearly driving mileage (14,300). Many Teslas are sold in California and their yearly mileage is somehwat higher, but it's not enough to change the conclusion significantly. - The national power mix and CO2 output applies. In reality there are more Teslas in the west, so differences in Western power generation CO2 emissions may affect the totals. Calculating this would have required separating out Tesla sales and power generation by state or even more finely. I didn't have the patience for that, but I'd be happy to see someone else do it. - Tesla energy use will vary somewhat by model, but I used an average. I don't remember where I got that average or how current it is. - I considered only what the vehicles consume in driving energy, not what CO2 is emitted in manufacturing the cars and parts and transporting same. Average ICEV CO2 emissions are 0.404kg per mile. On average a Tesla uses 0.34 kWh per mile. US average power generation produces 0.386kg per kWh, so a Tesla releases 0.131kg/mi of CO2, for a net reduction vs an ICEV of 0.273 kg/mi. BTW, this once again disproves the "smokestack myth." I then made a simple spreadsheet with the number of cars Tesla has sold each year since 2012 (ignoring the negligable number of roadsters sold), the estimated number of miles driven by the owners of those Teslas, the cumulative miles driven, and the cumulative reduction in CO2 emissions vs those same drivers using an average ICEV. By the end of 2020, the cumulative CO2 reduction from Tesla EVs was 13.7 million metric tonnes, which is pretty impressive. However, the launch of Spacex's 42,000 satellites will emit 14.3 million tonnes or 17.9 million tonnes, depending on your source, as stated above. Either way, Musk's satellites will wipe out all of the decarbonization that his EVs accomplished from 2012 to 2020. Some people consider Elon Musk an environmental champion. That too is interesting. David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did. I said I didn't know. -- Mark Twain = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20220107/b9b10391/attachment.html> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Regen toll (was: Tesla Y actual wall outlet efficiency)
On 7 Jan 2022 at 15:43, Cal Frye via EV wrote: > Today's single Falcon 9 launch lifted 49 Starlink satellites. I think > your estimate is a mite high? Oops. Never forget: ignorance can be cured, but stupidity is forever. David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = There is a cult of ignorance in the United States ... nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Regen toll (was: Tesla Y actual wall outlet efficiency)
Yep. By a factor of around 50 or so. Depending on which orbit, the StarLink launches are as high as 60 satellites per launch. The lowest number is in the mid 40s. Jim Walls -Original Message- From: "Cal Frye via EV" Sent: Friday, January 7, 2022 12:43 To: ev@lists.evdl.org Cc: "Cal Frye" Subject: Re: [EVDL] Regen toll (was: Tesla Y actual wall outlet efficiency) Today's single Falcon 9 launch lifted 49 Starlink satellites. I think your estimate is a mite high? Best regards, -- Cal Frye, On 1/7/22 3:19 PM, EV List Lackey via EV wrote: > On 7 Jan 2022 at 14:24, paul dove via EV wrote: > >> Be interested to see those numbers. > Sure. > > Sorry that I didn't save links to my sources, but you're welcome to look > them up for confirmation or correction I think that most of them were US > federal agencies - DOE, EPA, maybe NASA. > > Spacex plans to launch 42,000 satellites. (I said 40,000 in a previous > post, but I was remembering incorrectly.) I haven't found a time frame for > those launches, but the total number is frequently quoted in many news > reports. By the way, I'm not an expert, but that is a LOT of orbital > congestion, IMO. > > Each satellite launch releases almost 340 metric tonnes of CO2. That's a > total of 14.3 million tonnes. > > If your number (425 tonnes per launch) is correct, it would be 17.9 million > tonnes. > > To simplify the math, I made a few assumptions and omissions. > > - Over the period in question, US Tesla sales dominate, therefore I can use > US average yearly driving mileage (14,300). Many Teslas are sold in > California and their yearly mileage is somehwat higher, but it's not enough > to change the conclusion significantly. > > - The national power mix and CO2 output applies. In reality there are more > Teslas in the west, so differences in Western power generation CO2 emissions > may affect the totals. Calculating this would have required separating out > Tesla sales and power generation by state or even more finely. I didn't have > the patience for that, but I'd be happy to see someone else do it. > > - Tesla energy use will vary somewhat by model, but I used an average. I > don't remember where I got that average or how current it is. > > - I considered only what the vehicles consume in driving energy, not what > CO2 is emitted in manufacturing the cars and parts and transporting same. > > Average ICEV CO2 emissions are 0.404kg per mile. > > On average a Tesla uses 0.34 kWh per mile. US average power generation > produces 0.386kg per kWh, so a Tesla releases 0.131kg/mi of CO2, for a net > reduction vs an ICEV of 0.273 kg/mi. BTW, this once again disproves the > "smokestack myth." > > I then made a simple spreadsheet with the number of cars Tesla has sold each > year since 2012 (ignoring the negligable number of roadsters sold), the > estimated number of miles driven by the owners of those Teslas, the > cumulative miles driven, and the cumulative reduction in CO2 emissions vs > those same drivers using an average ICEV. > > By the end of 2020, the cumulative CO2 reduction from Tesla EVs was 13.7 > million metric tonnes, which is pretty impressive. > > However, the launch of Spacex's 42,000 satellites will emit 14.3 million > tonnes or 17.9 million tonnes, depending on your source, as stated above. > > Either way, Musk's satellites will wipe out all of the decarbonization that > his EVs accomplished from 2012 to 2020. > > Some people consider Elon Musk an environmental champion. That too is > interesting. > > David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey > > To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my > offlist address here :http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did. > I said I didn't know. > > -- Mark Twain > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > > ___ > Address messages t...@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE:http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE:http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO:http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20220107/7a654a8e/attachment.html> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/
Re: [EVDL] Regen toll (was: Tesla Y actual wall outlet efficiency)
Today's single Falcon 9 launch lifted 49 Starlink satellites. I think your estimate is a mite high? Best regards, -- Cal Frye, On 1/7/22 3:19 PM, EV List Lackey via EV wrote: On 7 Jan 2022 at 14:24, paul dove via EV wrote: Be interested to see those numbers. Sure. Sorry that I didn't save links to my sources, but you're welcome to look them up for confirmation or correction I think that most of them were US federal agencies - DOE, EPA, maybe NASA. Spacex plans to launch 42,000 satellites. (I said 40,000 in a previous post, but I was remembering incorrectly.) I haven't found a time frame for those launches, but the total number is frequently quoted in many news reports. By the way, I'm not an expert, but that is a LOT of orbital congestion, IMO. Each satellite launch releases almost 340 metric tonnes of CO2. That's a total of 14.3 million tonnes. If your number (425 tonnes per launch) is correct, it would be 17.9 million tonnes. To simplify the math, I made a few assumptions and omissions. - Over the period in question, US Tesla sales dominate, therefore I can use US average yearly driving mileage (14,300). Many Teslas are sold in California and their yearly mileage is somehwat higher, but it's not enough to change the conclusion significantly. - The national power mix and CO2 output applies. In reality there are more Teslas in the west, so differences in Western power generation CO2 emissions may affect the totals. Calculating this would have required separating out Tesla sales and power generation by state or even more finely. I didn't have the patience for that, but I'd be happy to see someone else do it. - Tesla energy use will vary somewhat by model, but I used an average. I don't remember where I got that average or how current it is. - I considered only what the vehicles consume in driving energy, not what CO2 is emitted in manufacturing the cars and parts and transporting same. Average ICEV CO2 emissions are 0.404kg per mile. On average a Tesla uses 0.34 kWh per mile. US average power generation produces 0.386kg per kWh, so a Tesla releases 0.131kg/mi of CO2, for a net reduction vs an ICEV of 0.273 kg/mi. BTW, this once again disproves the "smokestack myth." I then made a simple spreadsheet with the number of cars Tesla has sold each year since 2012 (ignoring the negligable number of roadsters sold), the estimated number of miles driven by the owners of those Teslas, the cumulative miles driven, and the cumulative reduction in CO2 emissions vs those same drivers using an average ICEV. By the end of 2020, the cumulative CO2 reduction from Tesla EVs was 13.7 million metric tonnes, which is pretty impressive. However, the launch of Spacex's 42,000 satellites will emit 14.3 million tonnes or 17.9 million tonnes, depending on your source, as stated above. Either way, Musk's satellites will wipe out all of the decarbonization that his EVs accomplished from 2012 to 2020. Some people consider Elon Musk an environmental champion. That too is interesting. David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here :http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did. I said I didn't know. -- Mark Twain = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ Address messages t...@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE:http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE:http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO:http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20220107/7a654a8e/attachment.html> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Regen toll (was: Tesla Y actual wall outlet efficiency)
On 7 Jan 2022 at 14:24, paul dove via EV wrote: > Be interested to see those numbers. Sure. Sorry that I didn't save links to my sources, but you're welcome to look them up for confirmation or correction I think that most of them were US federal agencies - DOE, EPA, maybe NASA. Spacex plans to launch 42,000 satellites. (I said 40,000 in a previous post, but I was remembering incorrectly.) I haven't found a time frame for those launches, but the total number is frequently quoted in many news reports. By the way, I'm not an expert, but that is a LOT of orbital congestion, IMO. Each satellite launch releases almost 340 metric tonnes of CO2. That's a total of 14.3 million tonnes. If your number (425 tonnes per launch) is correct, it would be 17.9 million tonnes. To simplify the math, I made a few assumptions and omissions. - Over the period in question, US Tesla sales dominate, therefore I can use US average yearly driving mileage (14,300). Many Teslas are sold in California and their yearly mileage is somehwat higher, but it's not enough to change the conclusion significantly. - The national power mix and CO2 output applies. In reality there are more Teslas in the west, so differences in Western power generation CO2 emissions may affect the totals. Calculating this would have required separating out Tesla sales and power generation by state or even more finely. I didn't have the patience for that, but I'd be happy to see someone else do it. - Tesla energy use will vary somewhat by model, but I used an average. I don't remember where I got that average or how current it is. - I considered only what the vehicles consume in driving energy, not what CO2 is emitted in manufacturing the cars and parts and transporting same. Average ICEV CO2 emissions are 0.404kg per mile. On average a Tesla uses 0.34 kWh per mile. US average power generation produces 0.386kg per kWh, so a Tesla releases 0.131kg/mi of CO2, for a net reduction vs an ICEV of 0.273 kg/mi. BTW, this once again disproves the "smokestack myth." I then made a simple spreadsheet with the number of cars Tesla has sold each year since 2012 (ignoring the negligable number of roadsters sold), the estimated number of miles driven by the owners of those Teslas, the cumulative miles driven, and the cumulative reduction in CO2 emissions vs those same drivers using an average ICEV. By the end of 2020, the cumulative CO2 reduction from Tesla EVs was 13.7 million metric tonnes, which is pretty impressive. However, the launch of Spacex's 42,000 satellites will emit 14.3 million tonnes or 17.9 million tonnes, depending on your source, as stated above. Either way, Musk's satellites will wipe out all of the decarbonization that his EVs accomplished from 2012 to 2020. Some people consider Elon Musk an environmental champion. That too is interesting. David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did. I said I didn't know. -- Mark Twain = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
[EVDL] 2013 leaf
the gen 2 24 kw battery came outpart way thru then year of 2013 with the different chemistry? how much longer wiil the gen2 vs gen 1?one is more time related and the other more miles related ? does the 2013 still have the water heating system even with the heat pump ? did the poor contacts in the water heater get fixed ? ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Regen toll (was: Tesla Y actual wall outlet efficiency)
-Original Message- From: "paul dove via EV" > by my calculation a Falcon 9 launch produces 425 metric tonnes per launch. > there has been 3 heavy launches that produce 2683 metric tonnes. [per launch > implied from other part of message] Fails sanity check. A Falcon 9 has one booster and one second stage. A Falcon 9 Heavy has three boosters and one second stage. Why would it produce 6.3 times as much CO2? Shouldn't it be a little under three times as much? And yes, this is getting pretty off-topic... 73 - Jim Walls - K6CCC j...@k6ccc.org ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] Regen toll (was: Tesla Y actual wall outlet efficiency)
Be interested to see those numbers. by my calculation a Falcon 9 launch produces 425 metric tonnes per launch. So far total launches period for Space x is around 150 counting all their Rockets. there has been 3 heavy launches that produce 2683 metric tonnes. 147 x 425 = 62,475 + 3 x 2683 = 70,524 metric tonnes. according to the EPA a typical car emits 4.6 metric tonnes per year. That's about 15,000 cars so even if they launch 10 times more rockets they won't equal the Tesla vehicles on the road for 1 year. On Thursday, January 6, 2022, 09:10:35 PM CST, EV List Lackey via EV wrote: On 6 Jan 2022 at 20:47, Peter VanDerWal via EV wrote: > For one thing, tires on a Tesla are NOT optimized for effiiency, they > are optimized for traction and low noise. That's an interesting observation on Tesla's priorities. I rough-calculated a while back that Spacex's project to lauch 40,000 (!) satellites into orbit will release about as much carbon dioxide as has been saved by Tesla's entire EV production through 2020. David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Interpreter: One who enables two persons of different languages to understand each other by repeating to each what it would have been to the interpreter's advantage for the other to have said. -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary" = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20220107/422d271d/attachment.html> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
