> What's best?
For a Tesla? No idea, but my gut feeling is that when the
instrumentation indicates 0% state of charge, there's probably still
5-10% left in the battery. You'll be fine. Read your warranty just in case.
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You're right, Larry, I should be charging big money for these flashes
of brilliance!
Lawrence Winiarski wrote:
Stopgiving...them...ideas
On Saturday, January 13, 2024, 9:39:14 AM PST, Mr. Sharkey via EV
wrote:
Making vehicles with intuitive control layout is a safety feature
> you've made your bias clear
Oh, I'm not necessarily biased against the vehicles, it's not
arguable that they don't represent the pinnacle of automotive
technology to date. My bias is against the company, which seems to
operate on a very rigid, control-freak centric business plan. That
and
> As far as I know, all of the Tesla's are available without
> the Full Self Driving and Autopilot software. Since you
> have to pay extra for those features, they are cheaper.
Ah, but you ~are~ paying extra for those features, even if you don't
enable them, as the *hardware* to support them
> all the buttons, stalks, switches, etc that mimic
> obsolete cars and satisfies those with such fetishes.
Exactly how is having commonly used controls that are needed for the
safe operation of a vehicle right out in plain sight and easily
adjusted without requiring the driver to take eyes
> Berlin researchers hacked Tesla autopilot
And this is surprising for what reason?
The first iPhone was jailbroken just 11 days after being released.
Clever hackers rise to the challenge of new products to subvert if
only because they can.
Makes me glad the only mission-critical
> "We were just kidding!"
> -- Someone at Tesla, apparently
What a bunch of douches! Is this really the people we want building
the future of global land transportation?
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> Anyone can make a Wikipedia edit.
Just as anyone can make an edit on Wikipedia, anyone can view the
edit history of any page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Toyota_Mirai=history
. See any edits for the last week or so that could match the one we
are discussing? Good thing
> I've read through the Wikipedia entry 3 times, and
> I find nothing of the sort in it
Yes, and I pretty much said so in my message. All I'm putting forth
is that Nick's statement that started this OT thread was an almost
verbatim repeat of something I read myself in the last few weeks, so
> It appears no one has any such info. And in my opinion,
> whatever you saw was a hoax.
Not a hoax. I very recently read the exact description of what Nick
has written, and it seems it came directly from Toyota. I stumbled
across this while researching the Mirai on Wikipedia
> They [Tesla] also offer very few variations
And the model seems to be that some (or many) of the options are
built into every car manufactured, then turned on or off via
software, allowing the cars to be much closer in build complexity,
while still offering the buyer the full range of
> How about using one of the headlight cleaning kits
A fast, easy, cheap fix for this is to scrub the daylights out of the
covers with a section of wet newspaper sprinkled liberally with
"Barkeepers Friend" scouring powder. Follow up after rinsing with
another clean, wet section of newspaper,
> from my experience with my 1985 electric Avanti
> I get more interest than the Tesla parked next
I've been finding this true for a while now. When my
factory-conversion 1981 Rabbit is parked a few spaces down from any
Tesla, I see people inspecting it or taking selfies alongside it. I
get
> How is it that we can shop anywhere, and have no
> trouble paying with any of half a dozen methods.
> Yet to charge an EV, there are all these artificial
> hoops we have to jump through?
Because we are good little lab rats.
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> I bet you'll be lucky to get 15, and you'll have to park
> in the sun with no shade to do it. If you just took the
> same cells and covered your parking space
> with them, it's a better use of them.
The practical thinkers here have been beating the "solar powered car"
boosters on this list
Yeah, 13" rims and tires have pretty well went the way of the dodo. I
changed over to 14" twenty years ago, and haven't looked back. This,
of course, depends on the vehicle involved.
Tire Rack is quite reputable, I've purchased tire and had them
shipped to my mailing address several times.
Lee hart via EV wrote:
> Corrections to your insurance policy based on your driving
Hmmm, You almost make that aspect sound like a bad thing. From my
observances, the majority of other drivers I encounter on the road
need and deserve this "feature".
Of course the newest road-worthy ICE that
>> They want to gather data. It has serious value.
>
> And I don't want to give it to them.
>
> I'm paying them to charge. I don't owe them anything else.
Oh come now, David. The overall mindset of anyone and everyone who
uses a schmott phone or any one or other of social media sites is
that
Thanks Phil. I've been being very mature in my resolve to not throw
in on this off-kilter topic for fear of offending the poor,
downtrodden Tesla owners who are feeling persecuted here.
> modifying YOUR car without YOUR permission
Oh, but no, YOU may own the ~hardware~ but THEY own the
> Look what I just found...do you want it?
Oh yeah, that's what we're talkin' about! And it looks to be sitting
on the hood of an Electrak.
I read the archives of messages, and as such, don't view email
addresses. If you'd like to arrange purchase and shipping, my address
can be found here:
Apart from the topic subject getting hijacked for an unrelated inquiry:
The motor would be tempting as a spare if it wasn't on the other side
of the world, shipping would be expensive to the west coast.
Any other SCT bits and baubles available? Proprietary things like the
controller, fuse
> Any ideas how I can get a good set without breaking my budget?
> Are Leaf modules still a good way to go?
Sure, leaf modules work fine, if you can find them. You'll need to
have ten modules, two in parallel and five pairs in series to allow
for the current that an ET running an implement
> In a way, he acts like a dictator
Oh, interesting. At the risk of throwing this discussion off-topic
(hell, it's already bouncing off the guardrails as-is):
Whenever I hear the term "dictator" tossed around casually, I
encourage people to examine the origins of the term, and the several
EVDLL = Electric Vehicle Discussion List Lackey
Sent Bcc to David's address for matching headers.
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> So, why isn't the Nissan Leaf outselling Teslas?
Couldn't possibly have anything to do with its appearance, could it? ;-P
NOTE! NOTE! NOTE! NOTE! NOTE! NOTE!
Due to an overload of spam and other issues, I've decided to
deactivate my Juno mail account.
All new messages should be directed
> won't have enough cash to grow production at a high rate and be able to
> product [produce] a LOT more vehicles?
No, as I said, and you quoted, I get that. I guess I am bemoaning,
generally, the direction that vehicle, and apparently all
manufacturing is going.
I know two people who sold
> why fault them for profiting from their groundbreaking work?
Oh sure, I get that. Problem is, they came on at first promising
affordable transportation. Then the Musk-cult mentality took over,
and now they produce high-end vehicles for people with disposable
income who don't mind laying it
Actually, I took the time to edit my profile just so I could reply to
this topic. Apparently, the listserv hates DreamHost (among others),
which is the SMTP server for my outgoing mail for my domain. I think
Lee and others have had similar problems.
> I don't suppose you can post that on
> I converted a Cushman ... to electric many moons ago (in the 90s).
> It has a small truck box on the back.
What you are describing is my first car, a Cushman "Mailster",
retired from the US Postal Service. It had a small cube box with
front and rear roll-up doors and instead of a steering
> Due to not having $3000 for one of the commercial BMS setups for
> my new (well, surplus used) 192 cell pack. (2 strings of 96), I'm going
> to usse some of the little BMS boards you can get for power
> tools (18650 cells).
John, you may be discovering the fly-in-the-ointment concerning
> ... off-roading in the Olympics, so
> he's still around, having some fun!
Thanks Rod, now I won't lay awake all night worrying about him -or- my charger!
> ... I thought you meant that driving vehicles off-road had
> become an Olympic sport. But I guess that means the
> Olympic Mountains in
Wondering if anyone knows the status of Manzanita Micro these days?
I've been attempting to contact them regarding a repair to my PFC20
charger, but phone messages go unreturned, and the "contact us" form
on their web site throws loads of PHP errors. Site hasn't been
updated since 2019.
> please don't use solar vehicles as a way to mock
> something that is actually stupid.
Once upon a time, passengers crossed the oceans in lighter-than-air
craft surrounded by opulent comfort.
Apple and Android have made the Dick Tracy 2-Way Wrist TV a reality.
Flying cars and personal
> A robot with a 100kwh battery will be
> the size of Optimus Prime
And therein lies the potential failure of this somewhat silly idea.
With this scheme, a charging EV takes up two parking places instead
of just one. That's going to be real popular in crowded cities, or
any city, for that
> ... politicians waving flags and clubs and pushing
> their nationalist belligerence. Present batteries
> use raw materials that raise political concerns. ... instead
> of worrying so much about charging speed, electrochemists
> should be concentrating their efforts on developing batteries
>
> -EVSEs have safety interlocks that prevent EVs from
> going into drive while charging
Actually, the J1722 protocols don't say anything about defeating
vehicle motion. If such an inhibit feature is implemented, it's
taking place in the vehicle's circuits sensing that the charging
handle is
> They're looking at it wrong. They're not giving away free fuel, they're
> encouraging people to use EVs. That saves the city, and its taxpayers,
> money in the long run.
Hypocrisy Alert!
This same utility offers rebates for home EVSE installation, has held
multiple EV demonstrations in
> requires both public and private locations where EV
> charging is offered to provide "gasoline or diesel fuel for motor
> vehicles through a pump to the public at no charge
The local electric utility (it's a PUD) installed two free 30 Amp
EVSE pedestals at their office in town some time back.
One must also keep in mind that there are significant differences in
the design requirements for brakes intended for heavy service such as
racing. Most significant is the compound of the friction pads in the
brakes. Most performance disc brake pad compounds don't actually
provide much braking
An interesting read, I'll be forwarding this to several Muskiphiles
who think that the world revolves around Elon, and who've neglected
to consider others in the Tesla sphere who actually made the
technology possible.
Here's a link to the original article:
By no means am I any sort of an expert on this, but I have been
following some of the efforts by Oregon to replace/augment/make more
equitable the road fuel tax structure, both for EV's and ICE's.
One pilot program was based on annual mileage. The shake-down at the
end of the program was that
> Sorry, but EVs *DO* cause damage to road surfaces and bridges
Agreed, and that isn't what I said, anyway.
If one was in the mood to split hairs on the subject, it would be
accurate to point out that EV fuel isn't delivered in bulk by
tractor-trailer rigs before being distributed. This alone
Oh yeah, a stroke of pure genius, that.
Here in Oregon, EV's are nailed with double registration fees.
Additionally there is a "road fuel tax replacement" fee that
penalizes vehicles based on fuel economy, but not in the way that
you'd expect. Cars that get higher fuel mileage pay MORE in
My early impression of electrathon racing was that it was a trivial
entertainment for high school kids. This was until the 1999 SolWest
renewable energy fair in John Day, Oregon, when I witnessed my first
race in person. The race was held at the high school running track in
nearby Canyon City.
> We used a GE ElectTrak to move disabled ICE vehicles
> around the lot. A great little machine in it's day.
> His name certainly wasn't Sharkey...
This EVDL is somewhat tolerant of chit-chat if it's EV related, and
ElecTrak topics are fully permissible, especially since many members
and some
Acknowledging that this might not be the most fruitful place to list
this item for sale, offered is a Brinley Hines electrically-powered
rototiller with all necessary accessories to bolt up to a General
Electric ElecTrak garden tractor.
Includes the tiller, which has few operating hours on
> You just don't know what you are missing
I would encourage you to refrain from making assumptions on which you
have no basis to make a judgement.
My "conversion" is a factory conversion, not a home-built conversion
It nicely handles my needs, which are modest
I ~have~ driven it "cross
> Ford doesn't teach dealer mechanices how to work
> on the cars their dealers sell?
Considering how hard the "big three' automakers are trying to build
market and sell EV's, how much time do you suppose they invest in
teaching the repair department in a stealership serving a town of
5,000 to
There are some on this list who are holding back from purchasing a
production EV due to the perception that the offerings are too
"closed source" for their sensibilities. Whether it be remote shut
down, forced updates, feature takebacks, or just plain data tracking (spying).
Some years back,
Since the EV Tradin' Post is defunct, posting here to clear some
floor space in my garage.
Netgain Warp 11:
Includes aluminum adapter plate for 1993 Toyota 4-Runner
Shaft adapter for Toyota flywheel
Flywheel and Clutch assembly
All installed on motor now
Approximate EV miles driven: 20k
Never
> "Ford made a premium gas fragrance for EV owners
> who miss the smell of fossil fuels"
Hmmm, I wonder if it comes in biodiesel flavor
Choose to be safer online.
Opt-in to Cyber Safety with NortonLifeLock.
Get Norton 360 with
> Musk seems to think that he's above the law, bigger and stronger
> than the NHTSA bulldozer. He's putting himself, and
> Tesla, right in front of it. It'll be interesting to see who wins.
The winner might be determined by which party has the self-driving
feature activated, and who the
And the icing on this solution's cupcake is that ~any~ Lowe's utility
trailer is *much less* ugly than the Tesla fever-dream designed truck.
Sponsored by
https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part_medium=uol_campaign=rss_taglines_more
> the "energy-star" design will NOT let the
> defrost come on when power is restored
Curiously, with the somewhat-ancient Kenmore refer here, that's the
~first~ thing it does after a power interruption, run a defrost
cycle. I have to remember yank the cord out of the wall before I
transfer my
> - How did you open the charge port door manually?
> - Was the 12v battery dead? Or the traction pack? Or both?
> - How did you "reboot" the system?
> - Once it finally charged back up, have you observed any capacity
loss, or other consequences?
Shush, Lee, the useful information he's
> where's the parking brake to set when
> I launch the ski boat at the boat ramp?
You didn't spring for the $25k submersible option? I hear it's self-navigating.
Sponsored by
> pay a cabbie $25 per trip to take you on local
> errands twice a week for 20 years
... but you still wouldn't get to drive an exciting, cutting edge EV,
aaannnddd... the cabbie probably drives an old ICE beater with
bedbugs in the upholstery. Ask me whose driving I have more
confidence in,
> Tesla lawyers recently admitted the $10,000 option that Tesla
> sells as Full Self-Driving Capability is not, in fact, capable of full
> self-driving.
I still don't get the fascination with self-driving cars. If I was
going to cough up the asking price for the pinnacle of automotive
>I don't think you get much from 3.3 to 3.6
During testing, I took them down to 2.9v per cell, but you're right,
after about 3.4v, there really isn't much left. I was running two
modules in series feeding a Trace DR series inverter and using a 600W
space heater for a load. The inverter
> I capacity tested six of them and found
> them to have a 48 AH capacity
That's good news, Jay. The ten second-generation modules I bought
from an online seller probably came from several vehicles, all with
different mileage, etc. All of them tested within a few Ah of each
other, about 50Ah
> Consider: You are going to use your lithiums until they die
Actually, I'm hoping for the reverse, that my battery packs last
longer than I do.
Sponsored by
> I'm thinking 3 of these on my ElecTrak 36v pack
While it's not a strict apples-to-apples comparison, I use a 45 amp
Todd "Power Source" switching power supply as the on-board charger on
my E20 ET. The three 15 amp internal modules were changed from
parallel to series connection. No problems
> the milage of driving up and down the driveway is much
> worse than actually driving somewhere
This would be true in any vehicle. Lubricants wouldn't have time to
heat up and become less viscous, tires would stay stiff on a short
run, brake pads and calipers would have more residual friction
I'd say it's more likely a calibration error brought on by shallow
cycling and disuse.
The only way the "car" (computer algorithm) knows how far the car can
go is to compare battery health to recent mileage. This would require
it to observe recent discharge/recharge cycles to develop
The sooner you abandon this idea, the sooner you'll get started on a
logical solution to your transportation needs that actually makes sense.
There are few, if any successful homebrew series hybrid conversions.
The idea of running a generator seems like it would make sense, but
there are
> In fact we do have a forum gateway, as a feature of the
> archive ... It's a bit clunky, but I'm working on that.
Yeah, Ya think? I use the Nabble archive exclusively to view
messages. Some years ago, the formatting changed so that it's no
longer possible to see who posted which message, who
> In any case, I expect the general content of posts here to improve.
Sorry, I'll try harder in the future...
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Tiffany Trump Makes News as She
Best of luck to Bruce in his new enterprise. Apparently, he considers
that the tag EVLN is personal property, which was the reason for his
departure here.
Back in 2016, Bruce decided to "spend a whole day" writing up an
archive of some of the pages from my now defunct web site. I wrote
him a
Jay;
I'll raise my hand on this one. I've been tinkering with the MiniBMS
modules, and have a few spares that I intended on changing the
setpoints so that I could put them on the Leaf cells that I installed
in my GE Electrak. For now, I'm the BMS, I hover around the tractor
while it's
> we both don't like the angry-aggressive front grill face it has
> (I know that's a silly reason )
No, it's not a silly reason. If consumers keep purchasing ugly
products (in this case automobiles), they'll keep making them, and
they will continue to be more and more horrendous looking.
Out
This doesn't help you with the battery selection and purchase, but:
Back in April, Tim Economu offered an open source BMS/cell module
assembly project that he had worked up:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/custom-battery-DKblock-td4696973.html
(Pointing at the
> It uses a standard size panel mount breaker
As Lee says, these breakers should be commonly available new and
used. One brand of this type of breaker is "Airpax".
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1311&_nkw=airpax+circuit+breaker&_sacat=0
Not sure I'd be
Our local People's Utility District has been offering free charging
from two 30 amp EVSE parking stations at their offices for a couple
of years now, and touting them in their monthly newsletter that gets
sent out with bills.
They've now decided to remove the free pedestals and replace them
After doing a short bit of research, maybe you are referring to these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/For-Nissan-Leaf-Battery-G1-Spacers/124105429028
What I have are probably end plates (you are welcome to those if you want them)
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School me here, I haven't seen all the parts and pieces that make up
a Leaf pack.
Are you referring to the stamped metal plates with the kind-of hook
that stands up on the end opposite the terminals? If so, I have one
pair for you.
___
> Wouldn't you expect that these large oil companies would have
> the ability to weather industry downturns, improve the
> technology, and remain around to service warranties, like Siemens,
> as opposed to a smaller company?
Well, sure, that would be the expectation, but in their prior
exploits
> Are you saying that they didn't honor the warranty on
> some panels you bought?
No, I purchased Siemens panels which are now out-of-warranty. The
point of my comment is that PV manufacturers have been a shifting
landscape for years, and few of them stay in business or sell the PV
division
Don't forget that both BP and Shell (A.K.A. "Royal Dutch Shell") have
attempted to greenwash their image in the past by entering into
photovoltaic manufacturing.
Just try getting them to honor the 25 year warranty on any of those
solar panels they sold 15 and 20 years ago...
> tap your battery at the DC:DC's nominal voltage
nonononono, don't ever do this
I thought I would save some bother and tapped five of my 18 T-105's
(yeah, lead, I know, but) to run the E-Meter on my car. My attitude
was "how bad could it be?"
Very bad. The brand new battery pack failed
> Check the NEC if you wanna do it for your house
Section 310.4 of the National Electrical Code permits paralleling of
conductors only if the wire gauge used is 1/0 or larger. There are
further stipulations on the type and installation of the conductors.
For sure, follow the NEC guidelines.
I don't understand the problem, at least two opportunities for
entertainment and retail purchases while you charge. If I'd had
nearby services like these this morning, I would have stuck around
the electric utility's free EVSE for a full charge instead of bugging
out at 2/3 ;)
> A fluoride-ion battery, or FIB, generates electricity
> by shuttling fluoride ions (etc, etc, blah, blah)
WOW!!! A battery that generates electricity would never need charging!
Whitens and strengthens your teeth at the same time it self-charges!
Look Ma, no cavities!
> I see online that the MiniBMS idle current is 2.2ma.
Depends on the version of the MiniBMS. The early "analog" models
(original and v.2) that use the LM239/339 comparitor chips typically
have a quiescent current of about 6.5mA. Individual modules can have
a current draw of up to 9mA. These
> I would run up against at's 8gb data limit way
> before the end of the month because today's web pages have so
> many ads, and auto-stream videos, etc. that eat data voraciously
I think this part of your post verifies David's concerns about Yahell
very nicely. That's ~exactly~ his point, some
> I have heard of copper pipe being crushed flat, then drilled, to
> create suitable custom high amp busbars
Beware! Copper water pipe is not pure copper, but is composed of
alloy, you won't be getting the conductivity of 99% copper. Also,
crushing and drilling pipe is time consuming and
> stack several of them for the 5p17s pack
While it looks like you have done the calculations on voltage drop
and heat production, and the values are acceptable, I'd question the
wisdom of trying to build a 5p pack using the Leaf busbars, mostly
because layering up multiple short busbars to
> Don't put one in your pocket with change
> and other conductive items
I did that with a handful of mostly dead AA alkaline cells once. It
was exciting, briefly.
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>> Tesla claims its Cybertruck will be bulletproof
>
>Maybe Musk has realized that he'll need a
> bulletproof vehicle for himself if he keeps reselling
> bought-back lemons to his customers
If he started building them with drinking fountains, he could drown
his sorrows without having to stop at
> They've sold small cars grudgingly, and only because
> of the CAFE requirements.
Oh, it goes back way farther than that. Look at some of the more
innovative vehicles that became popular. The Thunderbird and Corvette
come to mind immediately, but there are many more examples.
Early T-birds
> 90% of my driving is local, 90% of my driving is EV.
> That's not 100%; but the perfect is the enemy of the good.
> I'm not willing to pay the Tesla premium
> for a perfect 100% EV solution.
If more people realized this, more of them would purchase EV's.
I'm frequently asked by interested
Similarly, I think that the six SCT Rabbit conversions that were in
fleet service for the city of Portland, OR in the 1980's got a
similar reception from the city employees that were "forced" to drive
them. It was part of a federally-funded study, and drivers were
expected to complete a
> The determination of which of these, if any, is made in a Leaf size
> will be left as an exercise for the reader
Oh, but this isn't the "What tires fit my Leaf" topic, this is the
"VW eGolf owner wants to have Hot Hatch performance" thread. (If Hot
Hatch even applies to a 4-door buggy, my
> Your choice, but I'm sticking (sorry) [you should be...] with LRR.
Depends on your comfort level. My Goodyear Invicta GLR LRR tires were
*dangerously* slippery. I can think of at least two instances of
incidents that I was involved in that would have resulted in a
smashup if I had been
> Remember that the top of a tire is moving forward
> at *twice* the speed of the car
I was discussing this a short while back with a friend. If the top of
the tire is moving at 2x, the axle is moving at 1x, then the bottom
of the tire would have to be standing still. But we all know that it
> I'll never understand this bizarre styling trend for making
> massive car wheels with thin little tires
When I was spending my hang-out-online time at a popular VW forum
(vwvortex), there were constantly users complaining about how they
hit some pothole or other, usually in a big city, and
One of the reasons for posting here was to expand my search to the
knowledge base that exists on the mailing list. I wanted to be sure
that I wasn't overlooking any viable options by being too narrow in
my search field (mostly tirerack.com)
Apparently, according to searches on the Pirelli web
Bill;
No worries on the Audi spring swap. I went into it with eyes open,
just the tip that the springs were compatible helped me move forward.
I think that a complete spring/shock assembly *is* a drop-in
replacement. Whether the ride height is completely stock afterwards
is open to question,
Great tech advice as usual, Bill.
Contacting a wheel repair place here in Oregon (Eugene area is the
closest), I find that straightening the three slightly deformed 14x6"
factory alloy wheels that I intended to use is $150 each. I about
choked on that price, then I found out what a set of
> Your choices will probably be wider if you splurge for
> 15" wheels and fit lower profile tires...
David, thanks, I'll look into the Nokian's. 185-65/14 will work
although I'd prefer them in 60-series tires.
This ~would~ be a whole lot easier if I was willing to bump up a
wheel size, but
The Goodyear Invicta GLR's on my car finally had to be replaced after
all these years. Tire wear was one factor, but mostly, they were
beginning to look unsafe, all checked and separating. The random
take-off used tires I had on hand to replace them bit me with a 13%
increase in energy
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