Re: [EVDL] EVLN: VW lo$ing €3000 on each ID EV

[paul dove via EV]

That’s still 37,000 usd to produce with no profit. For much less car than a 
Tesla. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 6, 2019, at 12:31 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV  
> wrote:
> 
>> On 5 May 2019 at 19:57, paul dove via EV wrote:
>> 
>> Still it doesnTMt make a lot of
>> sense because it says 29900 euros or $47000 in Germany. Germany doesnTMt use
>> dollars so I assumed USD. 
>> 
>> But if they are loosing 4700 per car itTMs still more than a Tesla to build.
> 
> It's an AUSTRALIAN publication and the dollars they're talking about are 
> AUSTRALIAN dollars.  The AU$ is worth less in Euros than the US$. 
> 
> So VW aren't losing US$4700 per car, it's 3000 Eur.  That's US$3371, nowhere 
> close to $4700.
> 
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: VW lo$ing €3000 on each ID EV

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 5 May 2019 at 19:57, paul dove via EV wrote:

> Still it doesnTMt make a lot of
> sense because it says 29900 euros or $47000 in Germany. Germany doesnTMt use
> dollars so I assumed USD. 
> 
> But if they are loosing 4700 per car itTMs still more than a Tesla to build.

It's an AUSTRALIAN publication and the dollars they're talking about are 
AUSTRALIAN dollars.  The AU$ is worth less in Euros than the US$. 

So VW aren't losing US$4700 per car, it's 3000 Eur.  That's US$3371, nowhere 
close to $4700.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: VW lo$ing €3000 on each ID EV

[paul dove via EV]

Sorry my mistake I thought it said pounds. Still it doesn’t make a lot of sense 
because it says 29900 euros or $47000 in Germany. Germany doesn’t use dollars 
so I assumed USD. 

But if they are loosing 4700 per car it’s still more than a Tesla to build.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 5, 2019, at 2:49 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV  
> wrote:
> 
>> On 5 May 2019 at 6:25, paul dove via EV wrote:
>> 
>> You can get a Tesla cheaper than that without the incentive 
> 
> Really?  How?  
> 
> AFAIK VW haven't announced a dollar price, or even whether they'll offer the 
> ID here, but if you translate 29.9k Eur directly to US$ it would be US$33.6k 
> at today's exchange rate.  (The dollar figures in Bruce's article are AU$.)  
> I thought the cheapest Tesla 3 was US$35k.  
> 
> No?  Cheaper?  Less than US$33.6k?
> 
> Also, the VW is a hatchback-almost-crossover, and the Tesla is a sedan, so 
> VW wins big on utility.  That will probably matter in Europe, where hatch 
> utility is still generally taken for granted, and possibly also in the SUV-
> and-crossover-addled US.
> 
> As for range, if I'm not mistaken, Tesla rates the base 3 for a range of 
> 350km (220mi) ?cycle?, VW at 330km WLTP, Renault at 400km WLTP.  I don't 
> know how Tesla's km rating compares to the lunatic WLTP rating.
> 
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: VW lo$ing €3000 on each ID EV

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 5 May 2019 at 6:25, paul dove via EV wrote:

> You can get a Tesla cheaper than that without the incentive 

Really?  How?  

AFAIK VW haven't announced a dollar price, or even whether they'll offer the 
ID here, but if you translate 29.9k Eur directly to US$ it would be US$33.6k 
at today's exchange rate.  (The dollar figures in Bruce's article are AU$.)  
I thought the cheapest Tesla 3 was US$35k.  

No?  Cheaper?  Less than US$33.6k?

Also, the VW is a hatchback-almost-crossover, and the Tesla is a sedan, so 
VW wins big on utility.  That will probably matter in Europe, where hatch 
utility is still generally taken for granted, and possibly also in the SUV-
and-crossover-addled US.

As for range, if I'm not mistaken, Tesla rates the base 3 for a range of 
350km (220mi) ?cycle?, VW at 330km WLTP, Renault at 400km WLTP.  I don't 
know how Tesla's km rating compares to the lunatic WLTP rating.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: VW lo$ing €3000 on each ID EV

[paul dove via EV]

You can get a Tesla cheaper than that without the incentive 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 4, 2019, at 6:54 PM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
> 
> 
> An entry
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: VW lo$ing €3000 on each ID EV

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 5 May 2019 at 13:20, Matt Lacey via EV wrote:

> Likely the vw is measured on a more realistic cycle

Figures for both EVs are on the (unrealistic) WLTP cycle.  In theory, they 
should be comparable.

AFAIK, VW hasn't published a "real world" range number yet.  It will be 
interesting to see how the two EVs compare when actual VW owners start 
reporting their range.

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: VW lo$ing €3000 on each ID EV

[Matt Lacey via EV]

The zoe gets 300km range in city driving in the real world. 400km is by the 
nedc measure,  which shouldn't be used for electric cars or hybrids (very low 
speed). 

Likely the vw is measured on a more realistic cycle

⁣Sent from BlueMail ​

On 5 May 2019, 12:53, at 12:53, EVDL Administrator via EV  
wrote:
>On 4 May 2019 at 18:54, brucedp5 via EV wrote:
>
>> The base variant will have a 48kWh battery pack and a WLTP range
>rating of 330
>> kilometres. This model will be priced from ¬29,900 ($47,170) in
>Germany.
>> Government incentives in France will reduce the price to a more
>reasonable
>> ¬23,900 ($37,400).
>
>That price should make it quite competitive with the cheapo stripped
>Renault 
>Zoe, which is currently a big seller in Europe thanks to its relatively
>low 
>price (IIRC 23.2k Eur before incentive if you lease the battery, 17.2k
>Eur 
>after, and I think the battery costs something like 9k Eur more).  
>
>Renault has run some promos offering to lease the stripped Zoe and
>battery 
>for 190 Eur per month, though with some absurdly low yearly km
>allowance 
>like 7500km.
>
>Of course you can't buy a Zoe here in the States, surprise surprise,
>but I 
>digress.  Now let's see if VW offer the ID here.
>
>Funny though, the VW has a 20% bigger battery,  but 17.5% less WLTP
>range.  
>Zoe is rated 400km with a 40kW battery.  VW must have really messed 
>something up in their engineering (aerodynamics?  weight?).
>
>Zoe is also not losing money; in fact Renault is making a small profit
>on 
>the car.  Renault thinks they'll do even better on the new version
>coming 
>out next year.  It'll be based on the new Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi
>common 
>EV platform, unless the Carlos Ghosn mess trashes the partnership -- or
>
>Nissan does.
>
>> profitability forecast to begin around 2025. 
>
>This isn't a big deal, though the anti-EV Koch crew often crows at it. 
>From 
>what I've read, it's not uncommon for newly launched ICEVs to show a
>loss 
>for the first few years too.  I seem to recall that it took Honda
>something 
>like 5 years before they made a profit on the Accord, but I might be 
>remembering that wrong.
>
>David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>EVDL Administrator
>
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: VW lo$ing €3000 on each ID EV

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 4 May 2019 at 18:54, brucedp5 via EV wrote:

> The base variant will have a 48kWh battery pack and a WLTP range rating of 330
> kilometres. This model will be priced from ¬29,900 ($47,170) in Germany.
> Government incentives in France will reduce the price to a more reasonable
> ¬23,900 ($37,400).

That price should make it quite competitive with the cheapo stripped Renault 
Zoe, which is currently a big seller in Europe thanks to its relatively low 
price (IIRC 23.2k Eur before incentive if you lease the battery, 17.2k Eur 
after, and I think the battery costs something like 9k Eur more).  

Renault has run some promos offering to lease the stripped Zoe and battery 
for 190 Eur per month, though with some absurdly low yearly km allowance 
like 7500km.

Of course you can't buy a Zoe here in the States, surprise surprise, but I 
digress.  Now let's see if VW offer the ID here.

Funny though, the VW has a 20% bigger battery,  but 17.5% less WLTP range.  
Zoe is rated 400km with a 40kW battery.  VW must have really messed 
something up in their engineering (aerodynamics?  weight?).

Zoe is also not losing money; in fact Renault is making a small profit on 
the car.  Renault thinks they'll do even better on the new version coming 
out next year.  It'll be based on the new Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi common 
EV platform, unless the Carlos Ghosn mess trashes the partnership -- or 
Nissan does.

> profitability forecast to begin around 2025. 

This isn't a big deal, though the anti-EV Koch crew often crows at it.  From 
what I've read, it's not uncommon for newly launched ICEVs to show a loss 
for the first few years too.  I seem to recall that it took Honda something 
like 5 years before they made a profit on the Accord, but I might be 
remembering that wrong.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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[EVDL] EVLN: VW lo$ing €3000 on each ID EV

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://www.caradvice.com.au/751743/volkswagen-id-neo-losses/
Volkswagen to lose about $4700 on every electric ID hatch - report
April 29, 2019  Derek Fung

[image  
https://media.caradvice.com.au/image/private/c_fill,q_auto,f_auto,w_1024,ar_16:9/c29oflq1lapmjn2ccogk.jpg
]

Details about the Volkswagen ID hatch, the first electric car based on the
MEB platform, are beginning to leak out ahead of the opening of pre-orders
on May 8, European time.

Volkswagen is getting ready to launch its full-blown assault on the electric
car market, but it appears profit won't be easy to come by until around
2025.

Based on the 2016 Volkswagen ID concept [
https://www.caradvice.com.au/485246/volkswagen-i-d-concept-revealed-in-paris-production-version-due-in-2020/
], the final name for the Golf-size tall hatch is unknown, but rumours
indicate it could be ID Neo or ID3.

According to the latest edition of Auto Motor und Sport (via Automobile
Propre [
https://www.automobile-propre.com/volkswagen-i-d-neo-la-version-48-kwh-a-24-000-euros-bonus-deduit/
]), there will be three versions of the Volkswagen ID.

The base variant will have a 48kWh battery pack and a WLTP range rating of
330 kilometres. This model will be priced from €29,900 ($47,170) in Germany.
Government incentives in France will reduce the price to a more reasonable
€23,900 ($37,400).

An entry-level Golf, by comparison, starts from €19,520 ($30,800). Like some
other electric car manufacturers, the base model will not be available from
the start.

Instead, Volkswagen will offer a Launch Edition with a 62kWh battery and a
claimed range of 450km. Pricing for this model is expected to kick off from
€35,000 ($55,200) before government incentives.

Lastly, there will also be a range-topping model with roughly 600km of
driving range.

The magazine says Volkswagen expects to lose about €3000 ($4730) on every ID
hatch sold, with profitability forecast to begin around 2025.
[© caradvice.com.au]


[dated]
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-If-GM-sells-30-000-Bolt-EVs-it-loses-7-400-per-EV-tp4686890.html
EVLN: If GM sells 30,000 Bolt EVs, it loses $7,400 per EV
... GM is losing money on each Bolt EV it sells. UBS suggests that if it
sells 30,000 Bolt EVs, GM loses $7,400 per car. That's not unusual for the
first generation of an advanced-technology car. Toyota is widely assumed to
have lost money on the entire first generation of its Prius hybrid ...
May 27, 2017


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Each-Bolt-EV-is-a-9k-money-loser-for-GM-to-make-money-on-ice-models-tp4684743.html
EVLN: Each Bolt EV is a $9k money-loser for GM> to make money on ice models
... great deals for consumers as companies unload them to meet their targets
… GM Will Lose Money On The Chevy Bolt To...
Dec 06, 2016


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Their-CEO-sez-Don-t-buy-the-Fiat-500e-EV-tp4669611.html
EVLN: Their CEO sez "Don't buy the Fiat 500e EV"
... $14,000 each time it sells (Fiat) ] Company loses $14,000 on ever
electric vehicle Fiat-Chrysler's CEO had a strange request for electric
vehicle shoppers on Wednesday: don't buy the all-electric Fiat 500e. While
CEO Sergio Marchionne was speaking at a conference in Washington, he told
the...
May 23, 2014


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Smart-loses-6-100-on-every-car-it-sells-tp4666079.html
EVLN: Smart loses $6,100 on every car it sells
... “We’re not convinced the current one makes money either, even with all
its fixed costs written off,” said the analyst behind the reports, Max
Warburton. The report puts the Smart in first place for the top European
money-losing cars ...
Nov 04, 2013


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Inside-the-Tennessee-Leaf-Factory-tp4662677.html
EVLN: Inside the Tennessee Leaf Factory
... The Leaf “is not a money loser,” said Erik Gottfried, director of sales
and marketing for electric vehicles at Nissan’s U.S. arm...
Apr 26, 2013


+
https://thenewswheel.com/the-first-buick-electric-vehicle-debuts-in-china/
The First Buick Electric Vehicle Debuts in China
Apr 27, 2019  The Chinese are getting dibs on the first Buick electric
vehicle ever, as the car company has made a splash with its Velite 6 wagon,
sporting a fresh design, large ...
https://thenewswheel.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Buick-Velite-6-one.jpg




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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