Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph, 0-100kph:11.5s
Partly true. Nissan *will* get the tax credit for cars that it leases. Sent from AltaMail From: Peri Hartman via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: "Cor van de Water" <cwa...@proxim.com>,"Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph, 0-100kph:11.5s Date: 12/22/16, 3:47 PM Directly speaking, the tax credit isn't going to Nissan (or Tesla). However, Nissan gets to sell emissions credits to GM and others. In turn GM then gets to sell more SUVs. Long story short, Nissan gets the effective credit. -- Original Message -- From: "Cor van de Water via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> Cc: Sent: 22-Dec-16 3:37:41 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph, 0-100kph:11.5s >Peri, >Agreed, only it is not going to Tesla/Nissan but to their customers. >The manufacturers are not reaping direct benefits other than that their >prices are artificially lowered for those customers who qualify for >(part of) the tax credit. >The vehicle market is heavy regulated and incentivized anyway, that is >why in some countries the majority of vehicles run on Diesel and in >another country on Ethanol and yet another country has a large chunk of >vehicles run on LPG/CNG while in USA consumer vehicles run almost >exclusively on Petrol "gas" and slowly a shift towards electric >drive... >Of course there is a good reason for incentives as the emissions from >road-going vehicles make a large chunk of the pollution of the air that >we breathe daily, so it directly affects our collective health. Anyway, >we are straying away from the topic, so let's just say that the review >of the Smart is interesting, a couple concepts are not well >understood/translated by the editor but in general it is a positive >review of a useful city vehicle. > >Cor van de Water >Chief Scientist >Proxim Wireless > >office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water >XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info > >http://www.proxim.com > >This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential >and >proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you >received >this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any >unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of >this message is prohibited. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Peri Hartman [mailto:pe...@kotatko.com] >Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 1:35 PM >To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List >Subject: Re[2]: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km >ts:130kph, 0-100kph:11.5s > >Well, you could say Nissan and Tesla have a subsidy in the form of the >EV tax credit. Nissan has sold over 100K Leafs in the US. If all those >generated the full $7500 tax credit, that would amount to $750 million. >A pretty sizable subsidy. Don't know how much Tesla's getting. > >Peri > > >-- Original Message -- >From: "Cor van de Water via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> >To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> >Cc: >Sent: 22-Dec-16 1:05:23 PM >Subject: Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km >ts:130kph, 0-100kph:11.5s > >>Damon, >> >>That is exactly why I am teaching myself on everything I can learn >>about >>the Leaf that I think is necessary, >> >>enjoying the fact that the service manuals are available online and >>knowing that Nissan cannot >> >>over-the-air botch up Leafs, since the 2G communication that they have >>to control the car charging and airco will stop working end this month >> >>and if you are concerned about the cellular access to the car, then >>you >>can simply grab the antenna cable behind the >> >>glove box and yank it out of the telemetrics unit. >> >>Also the weakest spot on the Leaf - the battery - appears to be >>reasonable good engineered to allow DIY as I have done on several of >>them now. >> >>The BMS is stand-alone which is a great benefit, as you can actually >>run >>battery and BMS outside of the car, even while still in the shell that >>Nissan put around the whole thing, only 12V is required to run the BMS >>and when you connect CAN bus you can use LeafSpy to log the data from >>the 96 cells. >> >>So that is why I am in the process of
Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph, 0-100kph:11.5s
Just be clear, I'm glad we have (had?) the subsidy. I was only making a point that the subsidy is real. Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Willie via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> Cc: Sent: 22-Dec-16 3:55:10 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph, 0-100kph:11.5s On 12/22/2016 05:37 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote: Peri, Agreed, only it is not going to Tesla/Nissan but to their customers. The manufacturers are not reaping direct benefits other than that their prices are artificially lowered for those customers who qualify for (part of) the tax credit. The vehicle market is heavy regulated and incentivized anyway, that is why in some countries the majority of vehicles run on Diesel and in another country on Ethanol and yet another country has a large chunk of vehicles run on LPG/CNG while in USA consumer vehicles run almost exclusively on Petrol "gas" and slowly a shift towards electric drive... Of course there is a good reason for incentives as the emissions from road-going vehicles make a large chunk of the pollution of the air that we breathe daily, so it directly affects our collective health. Anyway, we are straying away from the topic, so let's just say that the review of the Smart is interesting, a couple concepts are not well understood/translated by the editor but in general it is a positive review of a useful city vehicle. It is semi-important to realize that the $7.5k income tax credit incentive is much a lower subsidy for Tesla than for most other EVs. Around 10% for a Tesla. For an imiev, it might be near 50%. Right now, for a new 24kwh Leaf, it seems to be around 30%. So, for that incentive, it is not fair/honest to claim that Tesla is feeding off of government subsidies; other EV makers are getting MUCH more. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph, 0-100kph:11.5s
On 12/22/2016 05:37 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote: Peri, Agreed, only it is not going to Tesla/Nissan but to their customers. The manufacturers are not reaping direct benefits other than that their prices are artificially lowered for those customers who qualify for (part of) the tax credit. The vehicle market is heavy regulated and incentivized anyway, that is why in some countries the majority of vehicles run on Diesel and in another country on Ethanol and yet another country has a large chunk of vehicles run on LPG/CNG while in USA consumer vehicles run almost exclusively on Petrol "gas" and slowly a shift towards electric drive... Of course there is a good reason for incentives as the emissions from road-going vehicles make a large chunk of the pollution of the air that we breathe daily, so it directly affects our collective health. Anyway, we are straying away from the topic, so let's just say that the review of the Smart is interesting, a couple concepts are not well understood/translated by the editor but in general it is a positive review of a useful city vehicle. It is semi-important to realize that the $7.5k income tax credit incentive is much a lower subsidy for Tesla than for most other EVs. Around 10% for a Tesla. For an imiev, it might be near 50%. Right now, for a new 24kwh Leaf, it seems to be around 30%. So, for that incentive, it is not fair/honest to claim that Tesla is feeding off of government subsidies; other EV makers are getting MUCH more. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph, 0-100kph:11.5s
Peri, Agreed, only it is not going to Tesla/Nissan but to their customers. The manufacturers are not reaping direct benefits other than that their prices are artificially lowered for those customers who qualify for (part of) the tax credit. The vehicle market is heavy regulated and incentivized anyway, that is why in some countries the majority of vehicles run on Diesel and in another country on Ethanol and yet another country has a large chunk of vehicles run on LPG/CNG while in USA consumer vehicles run almost exclusively on Petrol "gas" and slowly a shift towards electric drive... Of course there is a good reason for incentives as the emissions from road-going vehicles make a large chunk of the pollution of the air that we breathe daily, so it directly affects our collective health. Anyway, we are straying away from the topic, so let's just say that the review of the Smart is interesting, a couple concepts are not well understood/translated by the editor but in general it is a positive review of a useful city vehicle. Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: Peri Hartman [mailto:pe...@kotatko.com] Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 1:35 PM To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re[2]: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph, 0-100kph:11.5s Well, you could say Nissan and Tesla have a subsidy in the form of the EV tax credit. Nissan has sold over 100K Leafs in the US. If all those generated the full $7500 tax credit, that would amount to $750 million. A pretty sizable subsidy. Don't know how much Tesla's getting. Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Cor van de Water via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> Cc: Sent: 22-Dec-16 1:05:23 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph, 0-100kph:11.5s >Damon, > >That is exactly why I am teaching myself on everything I can learn >about >the Leaf that I think is necessary, > >enjoying the fact that the service manuals are available online and >knowing that Nissan cannot > >over-the-air botch up Leafs, since the 2G communication that they have >to control the car charging and airco will stop working end this month > >and if you are concerned about the cellular access to the car, then you >can simply grab the antenna cable behind the > >glove box and yank it out of the telemetrics unit. > >Also the weakest spot on the Leaf - the battery - appears to be >reasonable good engineered to allow DIY as I have done on several of >them now. > >The BMS is stand-alone which is a great benefit, as you can actually >run >battery and BMS outside of the car, even while still in the shell that >Nissan put around the whole thing, only 12V is required to run the BMS >and when you connect CAN bus you can use LeafSpy to log the data from >the 96 cells. > >So that is why I am in the process of transplanting two Leaf packs + >BMS >into my EV truck. > > > >In case someone ever wants to give their Leaf a better battery pack, >all >they need is another chemistry that is happy with up to 4.15V charge > >and that can fit 96 series cells in the Leaf shell and be water-proofed >and bolted back under the car... > > > >I am not bothered by the look of the Leaf, though I understand people >who don't like the styling. I simply enjoy the instant-on torque which >allows me to pull away first at a traffic light unless a real muscle >car >is next to me. > >Some people go as far as taking the Leaf drivetrain and bolting it into >another body, which is another way of creating your own EV. I will soon >have such a vehicle in my garage, once I get the Leaf cells hooked up >in >my US Electricar truck. > > > >BTW, the millions of other people's money you refer to, I presume that >you talk about the deposits? > >Because the claims of Tesla taking billions of subsidies have already >been debunked and Tesla was the first car maker to pay back their govt >bail-out loans, > >so I think that Tesla is doing an admirable job of staying at the >healthy side of financial responsibility. > > > >Regards, > > > >Cor van de Water >Chief Scientist >Proxim Wireless > >office
Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph, 0-100kph:11.5s
Thanks ;-) So it is good that Elon has a lot of his own money invested - giving him good motivation to steer Tesla away from the red side of balance as soon as he can... My feeling is that while the Model 3 requires enormous investments, I'd hope that Model S and X are pulling all of their own weight, maybe even making Tesla some money to invest into scaling up for Model 3 (the Nummi plant that is 1 mile up the road from here is going to double its size, I think the permits have been approved recently. It will take a couple years before turning a profit on such a big endeavor, luckily good investors have a long-term view. Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. From: damon henry [mailto:damonhe...@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 1:29 PM To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph,0-100kph:11.5s I think what you are doing with the Leaf battery packs is awesome. There are enough Leafs in the wild to have built a base of people with real knowledge and tools to either keep them running or cherry pick the best parts for other projects. The money I am talking about with Tesla is not government money, rather the many investors who have funded the years of financial losses Tesla has sustained. It's definitely a big boy, big dollar business and as long as the investors continue to believe there is a payoff I believe Tesla has a chance to be successful, but it will not take much to unravel the whole dream. Damon From: EV <ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org> on behalf of Cor van de Water via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 1:05:23 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph, 0-100kph:11.5s Damon, That is exactly why I am teaching myself on everything I can learn about the Leaf that I think is necessary, enjoying the fact that the service manuals are available online and knowing that Nissan cannot over-the-air botch up Leafs, since the 2G communication that they have to control the car charging and airco will stop working end this month and if you are concerned about the cellular access to the car, then you can simply grab the antenna cable behind the glove box and yank it out of the telemetrics unit. Also the weakest spot on the Leaf - the battery - appears to be reasonable good engineered to allow DIY as I have done on several of them now. The BMS is stand-alone which is a great benefit, as you can actually run battery and BMS outside of the car, even while still in the shell that Nissan put around the whole thing, only 12V is required to run the BMS and when you connect CAN bus you can use LeafSpy to log the data from the 96 cells. So that is why I am in the process of transplanting two Leaf packs + BMS into my EV truck. In case someone ever wants to give their Leaf a better battery pack, all they need is another chemistry that is happy with up to 4.15V charge and that can fit 96 series cells in the Leaf shell and be water-proofed and bolted back under the car... I am not bothered by the look of the Leaf, though I understand people who don't like the styling. I simply enjoy the instant-on torque which allows me to pull away first at a traffic light unless a real muscle car is next to me. Some people go as far as taking the Leaf drivetrain and bolting it into another body, which is another way of creating your own EV. I will soon have such a vehicle in my garage, once I get the Leaf cells hooked up in my US Electricar truck. BTW, the millions of other people's money you refer to, I presume that you talk about the deposits? Because the claims of Tesla taking billions of subsidies have already been debunked and Tesla was the first car maker to pay back their govt bail-out loans, so I think that Tesla is doing an admirable job of staying at the healthy side of financial responsibility. Regards, Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify t
Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph, 0-100kph:11.5s
Well, you could say Nissan and Tesla have a subsidy in the form of the EV tax credit. Nissan has sold over 100K Leafs in the US. If all those generated the full $7500 tax credit, that would amount to $750 million. A pretty sizable subsidy. Don't know how much Tesla's getting. Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Cor van de Water via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> Cc: Sent: 22-Dec-16 1:05:23 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph, 0-100kph:11.5s Damon, That is exactly why I am teaching myself on everything I can learn about the Leaf that I think is necessary, enjoying the fact that the service manuals are available online and knowing that Nissan cannot over-the-air botch up Leafs, since the 2G communication that they have to control the car charging and airco will stop working end this month and if you are concerned about the cellular access to the car, then you can simply grab the antenna cable behind the glove box and yank it out of the telemetrics unit. Also the weakest spot on the Leaf - the battery - appears to be reasonable good engineered to allow DIY as I have done on several of them now. The BMS is stand-alone which is a great benefit, as you can actually run battery and BMS outside of the car, even while still in the shell that Nissan put around the whole thing, only 12V is required to run the BMS and when you connect CAN bus you can use LeafSpy to log the data from the 96 cells. So that is why I am in the process of transplanting two Leaf packs + BMS into my EV truck. In case someone ever wants to give their Leaf a better battery pack, all they need is another chemistry that is happy with up to 4.15V charge and that can fit 96 series cells in the Leaf shell and be water-proofed and bolted back under the car... I am not bothered by the look of the Leaf, though I understand people who don't like the styling. I simply enjoy the instant-on torque which allows me to pull away first at a traffic light unless a real muscle car is next to me. Some people go as far as taking the Leaf drivetrain and bolting it into another body, which is another way of creating your own EV. I will soon have such a vehicle in my garage, once I get the Leaf cells hooked up in my US Electricar truck. BTW, the millions of other people's money you refer to, I presume that you talk about the deposits? Because the claims of Tesla taking billions of subsidies have already been debunked and Tesla was the first car maker to pay back their govt bail-out loans, so I think that Tesla is doing an admirable job of staying at the healthy side of financial responsibility. Regards, Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. From: damon henry [mailto:damonhe...@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 11:11 AM To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph,0-100kph:11.5s Yes, there are Leafs all over the place here in Portland as well, but I'm not sure what price Nissan has paid for this. Between government subsidies and the investment that Nissan has made, I'm not sure that the Leaf or any other OEM EV has secured a viable future yet. I personally think the Leaf is hideous to look at so will not buy one. I love the idea of buying an OEM EV though. I hope I continue to see a variety available for purchase. It looks like there are a few of the new Chevy Bolts at dealerships in Portland now, so I hope to go try one out in person soon. I'm also hoping the Tesla influence pans out well. I do worry that the whole Tesla house of cards may come crumbling to the ground. So far Tesla has proven that by spending billions of other peoples dollars they can put some pretty cool cars on the road. Hopefully the investors' faith in Tesla will payoff with a whole new paradigm in the automotive industry and they will be a successful and profitable company. I spent the first 9 months of 2016 working at PGE in downtown Portland, which is one of the centers of EV everything on the west coast. I enjoyed daily seeing a variety of OEM EVs plugged into the charging stations out front. There is still not nearly the selection to choose from as there is for "normal" vehicles, but there has never been a time when you had so many to choos
Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph, 0-100kph:11.5s
I think what you are doing with the Leaf battery packs is awesome. There are enough Leafs in the wild to have built a base of people with real knowledge and tools to either keep them running or cherry pick the best parts for other projects. The money I am talking about with Tesla is not government money, rather the many investors who have funded the years of financial losses Tesla has sustained. It's definitely a big boy, big dollar business and as long as the investors continue to believe there is a payoff I believe Tesla has a chance to be successful, but it will not take much to unravel the whole dream. Damon From: EV <ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org> on behalf of Cor van de Water via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 1:05:23 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph, 0-100kph:11.5s Damon, That is exactly why I am teaching myself on everything I can learn about the Leaf that I think is necessary, enjoying the fact that the service manuals are available online and knowing that Nissan cannot over-the-air botch up Leafs, since the 2G communication that they have to control the car charging and airco will stop working end this month and if you are concerned about the cellular access to the car, then you can simply grab the antenna cable behind the glove box and yank it out of the telemetrics unit. Also the weakest spot on the Leaf - the battery - appears to be reasonable good engineered to allow DIY as I have done on several of them now. The BMS is stand-alone which is a great benefit, as you can actually run battery and BMS outside of the car, even while still in the shell that Nissan put around the whole thing, only 12V is required to run the BMS and when you connect CAN bus you can use LeafSpy to log the data from the 96 cells. So that is why I am in the process of transplanting two Leaf packs + BMS into my EV truck. In case someone ever wants to give their Leaf a better battery pack, all they need is another chemistry that is happy with up to 4.15V charge and that can fit 96 series cells in the Leaf shell and be water-proofed and bolted back under the car... I am not bothered by the look of the Leaf, though I understand people who don't like the styling. I simply enjoy the instant-on torque which allows me to pull away first at a traffic light unless a real muscle car is next to me. Some people go as far as taking the Leaf drivetrain and bolting it into another body, which is another way of creating your own EV. I will soon have such a vehicle in my garage, once I get the Leaf cells hooked up in my US Electricar truck. BTW, the millions of other people's money you refer to, I presume that you talk about the deposits? Because the claims of Tesla taking billions of subsidies have already been debunked and Tesla was the first car maker to pay back their govt bail-out loans, so I think that Tesla is doing an admirable job of staying at the healthy side of financial responsibility. Regards, Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. From: damon henry [mailto:damonhe...@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 11:11 AM To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph,0-100kph:11.5s Yes, there are Leafs all over the place here in Portland as well, but I'm not sure what price Nissan has paid for this. Between government subsidies and the investment that Nissan has made, I'm not sure that the Leaf or any other OEM EV has secured a viable future yet. I personally think the Leaf is hideous to look at so will not buy one. I love the idea of buying an OEM EV though. I hope I continue to see a variety available for purchase. It looks like there are a few of the new Chevy Bolts at dealerships in Portland now, so I hope to go try one out in person soon. I'm also hoping the Tesla influence pans out well. I do worry that the whole Tesla house of cards may come crumbling to the ground. So far Tesla has proven that by spending billions of other peoples dollars they can put some pretty cool cars on the road. Hopefully the investors' faith in Tesla will payoff with a whole new paradigm in the automotive industry and they will be a successful and profitable company. I spent the first 9 months of 2016 working at PGE in
Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph, 0-100kph:11.5s
Damon, That is exactly why I am teaching myself on everything I can learn about the Leaf that I think is necessary, enjoying the fact that the service manuals are available online and knowing that Nissan cannot over-the-air botch up Leafs, since the 2G communication that they have to control the car charging and airco will stop working end this month and if you are concerned about the cellular access to the car, then you can simply grab the antenna cable behind the glove box and yank it out of the telemetrics unit. Also the weakest spot on the Leaf - the battery - appears to be reasonable good engineered to allow DIY as I have done on several of them now. The BMS is stand-alone which is a great benefit, as you can actually run battery and BMS outside of the car, even while still in the shell that Nissan put around the whole thing, only 12V is required to run the BMS and when you connect CAN bus you can use LeafSpy to log the data from the 96 cells. So that is why I am in the process of transplanting two Leaf packs + BMS into my EV truck. In case someone ever wants to give their Leaf a better battery pack, all they need is another chemistry that is happy with up to 4.15V charge and that can fit 96 series cells in the Leaf shell and be water-proofed and bolted back under the car... I am not bothered by the look of the Leaf, though I understand people who don't like the styling. I simply enjoy the instant-on torque which allows me to pull away first at a traffic light unless a real muscle car is next to me. Some people go as far as taking the Leaf drivetrain and bolting it into another body, which is another way of creating your own EV. I will soon have such a vehicle in my garage, once I get the Leaf cells hooked up in my US Electricar truck. BTW, the millions of other people's money you refer to, I presume that you talk about the deposits? Because the claims of Tesla taking billions of subsidies have already been debunked and Tesla was the first car maker to pay back their govt bail-out loans, so I think that Tesla is doing an admirable job of staying at the healthy side of financial responsibility. Regards, Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. From: damon henry [mailto:damonhe...@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 11:11 AM To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph,0-100kph:11.5s Yes, there are Leafs all over the place here in Portland as well, but I'm not sure what price Nissan has paid for this. Between government subsidies and the investment that Nissan has made, I'm not sure that the Leaf or any other OEM EV has secured a viable future yet. I personally think the Leaf is hideous to look at so will not buy one. I love the idea of buying an OEM EV though. I hope I continue to see a variety available for purchase. It looks like there are a few of the new Chevy Bolts at dealerships in Portland now, so I hope to go try one out in person soon. I'm also hoping the Tesla influence pans out well. I do worry that the whole Tesla house of cards may come crumbling to the ground. So far Tesla has proven that by spending billions of other peoples dollars they can put some pretty cool cars on the road. Hopefully the investors' faith in Tesla will payoff with a whole new paradigm in the automotive industry and they will be a successful and profitable company. I spent the first 9 months of 2016 working at PGE in downtown Portland, which is one of the centers of EV everything on the west coast. I enjoyed daily seeing a variety of OEM EVs plugged into the charging stations out front. There is still not nearly the selection to choose from as there is for "normal" vehicles, but there has never been a time when you had so many to choose from. If you see something you like, you can simply write a check and it can be yours, but it still feels a bit fleeting to me. I worry that I will wake up someday in the very near future and I'll be back to having to build my own... Damon From: EV <ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org> on behalf of Cor van de Water via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 10:20:51 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph, 0-100kph:11.5s During commute times, alm
Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph, 0-100kph:11.5s
Yes, there are Leafs all over the place here in Portland as well, but I'm not sure what price Nissan has paid for this. Between government subsidies and the investment that Nissan has made, I'm not sure that the Leaf or any other OEM EV has secured a viable future yet. I personally think the Leaf is hideous to look at so will not buy one. I love the idea of buying an OEM EV though. I hope I continue to see a variety available for purchase. It looks like there are a few of the new Chevy Bolts at dealerships in Portland now, so I hope to go try one out in person soon. I'm also hoping the Tesla influence pans out well. I do worry that the whole Tesla house of cards may come crumbling to the ground. So far Tesla has proven that by spending billions of other peoples dollars they can put some pretty cool cars on the road. Hopefully the investors' faith in Tesla will payoff with a whole new paradigm in the automotive industry and they will be a successful and profitable company. I spent the first 9 months of 2016 working at PGE in downtown Portland, which is one of the centers of EV everything on the west coast. I enjoyed daily seeing a variety of OEM EVs plugged into the charging stations out front. There is still not nearly the selection to choose from as there is for "normal" vehicles, but there has never been a time when you had so many to choose from. If you see something you like, you can simply write a check and it can be yours, but it still feels a bit fleeting to me. I worry that I will wake up someday in the very near future and I'll be back to having to build my own... Damon From: EV <ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org> on behalf of Cor van de Water via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 10:20:51 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph, 0-100kph:11.5s During commute times, almost every 5th car that you see on the road in Silicon Valley is a Leaf so I'd say that for intended purpose, this is a very successful OEM car. Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of damon henry via EV Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 9:26 AM To: Bill Dube; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph,0-100kph:11.5s Successful OEM electric vehicle??? Has there truly been one yet? Perhaps the Nissan Leaf, but I think the jury is still out on whether this EV thing will ever work out or not. I'm hopeful it will. As far as EVs and transmissions I agree with you that they are not generally necessary on vehicles engineered from the ground up as electric, but perhaps one will make sense in someone's engineering/cost tradeoff list. I have the original transmission in my Datsun Truck Conversion and it is quite nice, but it is there because it was free and allowed me to use a smaller motor and provides a reverse gear. On my motorcycle conversion I have a single gear ratio direct drive and that's fine too. Damon From: EV <ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org> on behalf of Bill Dube via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 9:11:52 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph,0-100kph:11.5s CVT transmission? In an EV? Seriously? No successful OEM electric vehicle has any sort of transmission, at least none that I am aware of. Touting a transmission on a prototype EV is a huge red flag. It shows that the design team is very inexperienced (or was overruled by management, which has the same result, unfortunately.) We can hope that the journalist that wrote the article got the facts wrong. Bill D. On 12/22/2016 3:44 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote: > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-2017-4 th-gen-is-the-smartest-42ED-EV-yet-r-160km-ts-130kph-0-100kph-11-5s-td46 84960.html > EVLN: 2017 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph > 0-100kph:11.5s > The smartest smart car ever > The first electric smart debuted in 2007 when 100 were tested in London, ... > CVT transmission gearing, there is an ECO Mode ... ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub h
Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph, 0-100kph:11.5s
During commute times, almost every 5th car that you see on the road in Silicon Valley is a Leaf so I'd say that for intended purpose, this is a very successful OEM car. Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of damon henry via EV Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 9:26 AM To: Bill Dube; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph,0-100kph:11.5s Successful OEM electric vehicle??? Has there truly been one yet? Perhaps the Nissan Leaf, but I think the jury is still out on whether this EV thing will ever work out or not. I'm hopeful it will. As far as EVs and transmissions I agree with you that they are not generally necessary on vehicles engineered from the ground up as electric, but perhaps one will make sense in someone's engineering/cost tradeoff list. I have the original transmission in my Datsun Truck Conversion and it is quite nice, but it is there because it was free and allowed me to use a smaller motor and provides a reverse gear. On my motorcycle conversion I have a single gear ratio direct drive and that's fine too. Damon From: EV <ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org> on behalf of Bill Dube via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 9:11:52 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph,0-100kph:11.5s CVT transmission? In an EV? Seriously? No successful OEM electric vehicle has any sort of transmission, at least none that I am aware of. Touting a transmission on a prototype EV is a huge red flag. It shows that the design team is very inexperienced (or was overruled by management, which has the same result, unfortunately.) We can hope that the journalist that wrote the article got the facts wrong. Bill D. On 12/22/2016 3:44 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote: > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-2017-4 th-gen-is-the-smartest-42ED-EV-yet-r-160km-ts-130kph-0-100kph-11-5s-td46 84960.html > EVLN: 2017 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph > 0-100kph:11.5s > The smartest smart car ever > The first electric smart debuted in 2007 when 100 were tested in London, ... > CVT transmission gearing, there is an ECO Mode ... ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161222/d63a 6f6d/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the “smartest” 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph,0-100kph:11.5s
On 22 Dec 2016 at 17:25, damon henry via EV wrote: > transmissions ... are not generally necessary on vehicles engineered > from the ground up as electric ... Absolutely. And the Smart was originally conceived in the mid-1990s as an EV. Satch's Nicholad Hayek proposed a tiny electric runabout with just enough space behind the seats for a case of beer (really). Diamler reportedly had a heck of a time cramming even that tiny 600cc ICE into it. As for the alleged CVT, obviously I don't know for sure, but that may be "just an expression." Solectria used to say that the Force's single speed transaxle was "automatic," because that way fleet buyers would understand that the driver didn't have to shift gears manually while under way. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the “smartest” 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph,0-100kph:11.5s
Successful OEM electric vehicle??? Has there truly been one yet? Perhaps the Nissan Leaf, but I think the jury is still out on whether this EV thing will ever work out or not. I'm hopeful it will. As far as EVs and transmissions I agree with you that they are not generally necessary on vehicles engineered from the ground up as electric, but perhaps one will make sense in someone's engineering/cost tradeoff list. I have the original transmission in my Datsun Truck Conversion and it is quite nice, but it is there because it was free and allowed me to use a smaller motor and provides a reverse gear. On my motorcycle conversion I have a single gear ratio direct drive and that's fine too. Damon From: EV <ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org> on behalf of Bill Dube via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 9:11:52 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the “smartest” 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph,0-100kph:11.5s CVT transmission? In an EV? Seriously? No successful OEM electric vehicle has any sort of transmission, at least none that I am aware of. Touting a transmission on a prototype EV is a huge red flag. It shows that the design team is very inexperienced (or was overruled by management, which has the same result, unfortunately.) We can hope that the journalist that wrote the article got the facts wrong. Bill D. On 12/22/2016 3:44 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote: > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-2017-4th-gen-is-the-smartest-42ED-EV-yet-r-160km-ts-130kph-0-100kph-11-5s-td4684960.html > EVLN: 2017 4th-gen is the “smartest” 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph > 0-100kph:11.5s > The smartest smart car ever > The first electric smart debuted in 2007 when 100 were tested in London, ... > CVT transmission gearing, there is an ECO Mode ... ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161222/d63a6f6d/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the “smartest” 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph,0-100kph:11.5s
I suspect that the journalist has his facts wrong. He writes: "I was also surprised to note it had a standard heated steering wheel, which you might think would be an energy hog, as well as standard heated seats." This shows ignorance. Heated seats and steering wheel put the heat directly where it is needed, reducing the need for cabin heat, which greatly reduces energy use during cold weather operation. Why heat the entire passenger compartment when you can efficiently heat just the passenger? Bill D. On 12/22/2016 3:44 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-2017-4th-gen-is-the-smartest-42ED-EV-yet-r-160km-ts-130kph-0-100kph-11-5s-td4684960.html EVLN: 2017 4th-gen is the “smartest” 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph 0-100kph:11.5s The smartest smart car ever The first electric smart debuted in 2007 when 100 were tested in London, ... CVT transmission gearing, there is an ECO Mode ... ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the “smartest” 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph,0-100kph:11.5s
CVT transmission? In an EV? Seriously? No successful OEM electric vehicle has any sort of transmission, at least none that I am aware of. Touting a transmission on a prototype EV is a huge red flag. It shows that the design team is very inexperienced (or was overruled by management, which has the same result, unfortunately.) We can hope that the journalist that wrote the article got the facts wrong. Bill D. On 12/22/2016 3:44 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-2017-4th-gen-is-the-smartest-42ED-EV-yet-r-160km-ts-130kph-0-100kph-11-5s-td4684960.html EVLN: 2017 4th-gen is the “smartest” 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph 0-100kph:11.5s The smartest smart car ever The first electric smart debuted in 2007 when 100 were tested in London, ... CVT transmission gearing, there is an ECO Mode ... ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
