Re: [EVDL] Bu's e-wheely bad idea weaving-recklessly the wrongwayHT delivery

2015-08-24 Thread Cor van de Water via EV
I think the e-Bike will typically replace a comparable vehicle, what we call 
moped or
motorized bike or scooter. In India there is a term for a whole family on such 
a vehicle
(since it happens so often) so they call that a circus, which it often is: 5, 
6 even
7 or 8 people on the same two wheels...

Replacing the 2-stroke moped with a sturdy e-Bike that are produced by the 
millions over there
should need no comment as to the environmental benefits.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless

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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Mark Abramowitz via EV
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 10:13 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Bu's e-wheely bad idea weaving-recklessly the wrongwayHT 
delivery

Very interesting.
So you're saying that there are tons of gasoline-powered assisted bikes in 
China, and that these are what's being replaced, not non-assisted bikes.

I've never been to China, so I really don't know. I appreciate the information.

Sent from my iPhone

 On Aug 24, 2015, at 1:22 AM, Jukka Järvinen akkuju...@akkujukka.fi wrote:
 
 When the comparison is done fair we should look what the electric bike 
 replaces. We should not compare unaided bicycles to electrically assisted 
 ones. 
 
 In China many electric bicycles are much sturdier than ones without electric 
 assistance. So one can zip away on the streets with the bike and 3 other 
 family members on it. While this is getting rarer sight in China as many are 
 switching to cars or small three wheeled EVs this still is quite common. 
 Things are changing as they have money for cars. People use electric assisted 
 bicycles in there also because they wish to get around without being in need 
 to change the clothes couple times a day. It get's hot and humidity is high. 
 In this case electric bicycle replaces gasoline scooter/motorcycle which also 
 stink and the smell is on the clothes for the rest of the day.
 
 Usually pedals are on those 'bicycles' only for the situation if the battery 
 dies. Depleted or just completely dies.
 
 Average food delivery person with bicycle would not be an average Joe or 
 Jane. It takes commitment to the sport. In NYC there are bicycle lanes 
 (right?). So taking scooter/motorcycle there would be illegal. Assisted 
 bicycles are allowed on those lanes (usually) and one can get pretty quickly 
 from point A to B. A hybrid solution which has good things from bicycles and 
 scooters.
 
 China has taken leaps towards cleaner transportation and CO2 free electricity 
 generation. Not saying anyone else would not be doing the same but in China 
 case they are trying to avoid mistakes we have done in the past and are going 
 to leave some things undone. This is why I stated what I did. EVs are a 
 standard in China traffic already. More miles are driven in many places with 
 electric bicycles/scooters/etc than with gasoline cars/scooters/motorcycles. 
 They are getting to the broader end of the hockey stick far faster than us.
 
 -Jukka
  
 
 2015-08-23 3:35 GMT+03:00 Mark Abramowitz via EV ev@lists.evdl.org:
 Aren't EV miles *dirtier* for bikes? Don't they mostly use unassisted bikes?
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
  On Aug 22, 2015, at 4:10 PM, Jukka Järvinen akkuju...@akkujukka.fi wrote:
 
  I bet this guy did not even know he was doing something wrong. As this is 
  standard procedure on many Chinese cities. :D Most get away without a 
  single scratch as everyone knows bicycles are everywhere. Which is exactly 
  the opposite situation in most US cities. Right?
 
  The thing to observe here could be how Chinese drive billions of electric 
  miles every day. Now that's something to talk about!
 
  BR,
  Jukka
 
  22.8.2015 22.19 Mark Abramowitz via EV ev@lists.evdl.org kirjoitti:
  Not sure what this has to do with EVs, unless you're implying that the 
  electrification of his bike had something to do with his lunacy.
 
  Sent from my iPhone
 
   On Aug 22, 2015, at 12:59 AM, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
  
  
  
   http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/man-bike-traffic-h
   olland-tunnel-article-1.2326089 Deliveryman on electric bike 
   arrested after heading into Holland Tunnel against traffic BY 
   Thomas Tracy  /  August 14, 2015
  
   [images  / Port Authority Police Department 
   http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2326088.1439577248!/
   img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_400/tunnel15n-2-
   web.jpg
   (mugshot) Yongshun Bu, 44, was arrested by the Port

Re: [EVDL] Bu's e-wheely bad idea weaving-recklessly the wrongwayHT delivery

2015-08-23 Thread Cor van de Water via EV
Let's do the math:
If I go to work, mostly I drive my EV truck which on the freeway uses
at least 160-200A at 120V to maintain an easy 55-60MPH so it uses about
200x120 = 24kWh for 60 miles or about 400Wh/mi

Once a week on avg I ride my e-bike to work. Now, I like to work out
to I typically ride it without motor, but let's suppose that I did ride
the same 11 miles one-way on electric power, just as when riding my truck
(not on the freeway, of course, but there is a parallel route that is
about the same distance as taking the freeway)
Then the consumption is about 300W for a speed of 20MPH so about 15Wh/mi

No matter where the power comes from, the bike uses about 1/30 the energy
that my truck uses for the same distance, so how can this be dirtier?

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: cwa...@proxim.comPrivate: http://www.cvandewater.info
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203



-Original Message-
From: EV on behalf of Mark Abramowitz via EV
Sent: Sat 8/22/2015 5:35 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Bu's e-wheely bad idea weaving-recklessly the wrongwayHT 
delivery
 
Aren't EV miles *dirtier* for bikes? Don't they mostly use unassisted bikes?

Sent from my iPhone

 On Aug 22, 2015, at 4:10 PM, Jukka Järvinen akkuju...@akkujukka.fi wrote:
 
 I bet this guy did not even know he was doing something wrong. As this is 
 standard procedure on many Chinese cities. :D Most get away without a single 
 scratch as everyone knows bicycles are everywhere. Which is exactly the 
 opposite situation in most US cities. Right?
 
 The thing to observe here could be how Chinese drive billions of electric 
 miles every day. Now that's something to talk about!
 
 BR,
 Jukka
 
 22.8.2015 22.19 Mark Abramowitz via EV ev@lists.evdl.org kirjoitti:
 Not sure what this has to do with EVs, unless you're implying that the 
 electrification of his bike had something to do with his lunacy.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
  On Aug 22, 2015, at 12:59 AM, brucedp5 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 
 
 
  http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/man-bike-traffic-holland-tunnel-article-1.2326089
  Deliveryman on electric bike arrested after heading into Holland Tunnel
  against traffic
  BY Thomas Tracy  /  August 14, 2015
 
  [images  / Port Authority Police Department
  http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2326088.1439577248!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_400/tunnel15n-2-web.jpg
  (mugshot) Yongshun Bu, 44, was arrested by the Port Authority Police when 
  he
  rode an electric scooter into the westbound Holland Tunnel, weaving against
  traffic
 
  http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2326087.1439577247!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_635/tunnel15n-1-web.jpg
  Bu was riding this electric bike through the tunnel, going against traffic.
  He was making an early morning food delivery, according to law enforcement
  sources.
  ]
 
  This was a wheely bad idea.
 
  A deliveryman on an electric bicycle was arrested after he zipped into the
  Holland Tunnel against traffic and veered around oncoming cars as he made
  his way across the Hudson River span, officials said Friday.
 
  Yongshun Bu, 44, and his motorized bike entered the westbound lane at the
  Manhattan end of the tunnel at 7 p.m. Thursday and was seen recklessly
  riding around traffic, ignoring signs and verbal instructions to pull over,
  according to Port Authority spokesman Joe Pentangelo.
 
  Bu, who was delivering Chinese food according to law enforcement sources,
  was ultimately grabbed about 20 yards into the tunnel and charged with
  criminal trespass.
 
  His wrong-way trip through the tunnel caused a short traffic disruption,
  but no one was hurt, officials said.
  [© 2015 NYDailyNews.com]
 
 
 
  http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Food-Delivery-Cyclist-Rushes-Wrong-Way-Through-Holland-Tunnel-Cops-321972742.html
  Food Delivery Cyclist Rushes Wrong Way Through Holland Tunnel: Cops
  Aug 15, 2015
 
  [image
  http://media.nbcnewyork.com/images/676*367/81515tunnel.jpg
  (mugshot)
  ]
 
  A restaurant delivery person apparently disappointed hungry customers after
  being arrested by police who said he was weaving through oncoming traffic 
  in
  the wrong lane of the Holland Tunnel.
 
  Yongshun Bu, 44, recklessly dodged oncoming traffic, ignored signs and
  verbal instructions to stop while making a food delivery Friday evening on
  an electric-powered bicycle, Port Authority police said Saturday.
 
  Bu was apprehended at the tunnel exit and charged with criminal trespass,
  police said.
 
  There was no information as to whether Bu had obtained a lawyer who could
  comment on the charge.
  [© nydailynews.com]
 
 
 
  http://cliffviewpilot.com/manhattan-deliveryman-caught-riding-electric-bicycle-through-holland-tunnel/
  Manhattan deliveryman caught riding electric

Re: [EVDL] Bu's e-wheely bad idea weaving-recklessly the wrongwayHT delivery

2015-08-23 Thread Cor van de Water via EV
Mark,
I think you are confused between a motorized bicycle which is the language
that the traffic law uses for a bicycle with a small ICE, typically a single
piston two-stroke engine (polluting, noisy and resembling a moped, but slower)

and the electric bicycle aka eBike which has no emissions (other than the
long tailpipe if it is charged from grid power and not from 100% renewable.

Almost all assisted bicycles that I see anywhere are e-Bikes, due to the
lack of hassle (no maintenance, fill-up, fouling, heat, noise, smell and so on.
Just charge and go.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: cwa...@proxim.comPrivate: http://www.cvandewater.info
Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130
Tel: +1 408 383 7626Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203



-Original Message-
From: EV on behalf of Mark Abramowitz via EV
Sent: Sun 8/23/2015 11:31 AM
To: Ben Goren; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Bu's e-wheely bad idea weaving-recklessly the wrongwayHT 
delivery
 
Two-stroke engines are hi emission.

Sent from my iPhone

 On Aug 23, 2015, at 11:25 AM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 
 On Aug 23, 2015, at 11:08 AM, Peri Hartman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 
 If it merely 100% replaces a pedal-only bike, then clearly it is dirtier.
 
 I can't help but think this is the perfect being the enemy of the good.
 
 Even the worst full-sized gasoline-powered motorcycle is going to get better 
 fuel economy than the best econobox, and the average motorcycle pollutes so 
 much less than the average passenger vehicle it's not even funny. If 
 motorcycles were the norm, we wouldn't be in the pickle we're in today.
 
 Similarly, full-sized electric motorcycles put both gasoline-powered 
 motorcycles and full-sized electric vehicles to shame -- and two-stroke 
 gas-powered assisted bicycles are even more energy-efficient than full-sized 
 electric motorcycles.
 
 And a bicycle with an electric assist? Your stereotypical teenaged girl is 
 going to use more electricity drying her hair in the morning than an 
 electric-assist bicycle is going to use.
 
 So, is an electric-assist bicycle somehow dirtier than a bicycle without 
 electric assist? Does that even deserve to be dignified with a response?
 
 Anything that's not a full-sized gas-powered single-occupant daily commuter 
 car is a win for the planet. Full-sized electric vehicles are a fantastic 
 replacement...but all the other options should be encouraged as well.
 
 And you will not find iany/i powered vehicle friendlier to the 
 environment than an electric-human hybrid.
 
 b
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