Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Smart fortwo EV Batteries' second-life @Work> a win-win
Lithium Ion batteries can loose capacity when just sitting. Not all of it is permanent and can be recovered by cycling the cells. I let mine sit for over a year and some cells only had 30% capacity left. I cycled them about 5 times before I got full capacity back. I am not sure what sitting for longer time periods would be but I have read papers that indicate capacity loss can be permanent Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: EVDL Administrator via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> Date: 2/9/2016 2:32 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Smart fortwo EV Batteries' second-life @Work> a win-win On 9 Feb 2016 at 4:21, brucedp5 via EV wrote: > To be usable in the event of a replacement, a battery requires regular > cyclising during its storage period, i.e. specific charging and > discharging for the purpose of preservation. Otherwise it would suffer > from deep discharging, which can lead to battery defects. Huh? Who said that lithium ion batteries needed to be cycled (or 'cyclised') while in storage? Aren't they OK when stored at around 40-70% SOC? The way I heard this deal a few years ago, the idea was that when the battery capacity was too low for use in an EV, the battery would be demoted to grid leveling service. Unless this "reporter" is as clueless about this Diamler notion as he is about how steam cars worked, in Diamler's world, it's the other way round. I don't think that's a world I'm interested in joining, thank you. It sounds like if I'm driving a Smart ED (love that designation) and I need a new battery, I can't have one. Diamler will sell me a USED battery, one that's been doing grid leveling for some time already. Are they going to give me a price reduced by the proportion of already-used cycle life? Something smells kind of foul here. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160210/cfdd1cfd/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Smart fortwo EV Batteries' second-life @Work> a win-win
I AM driving a Smart ED and I too thought that sounded a bit fishy and I too disagree that regular cycling is "good" for the batteries. BUT one thing that sets Smart apart is that the battery is rented (optionally but most folks choose it). I'm leasing my Smart and I have to send two checks every month: one to Mercedes Benz leasing for the car and a second one to Daimler for the battery rent. If there's ever a problem with the battery they have to install a replacement for "free". Nothing says it has to be new although I would be upset if it had significantly less capacity than the old one. If they really keep a stock of batteries on the shelf to satisfy rental replacement then perhaps it does make sense to get some money out of them by using them for this purpose. That assumes, of course, that it's easy for them to pull the batteries out of the power-plant to install in my car. --Rick On 02/09/2016 03:32 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: On 9 Feb 2016 at 4:21, brucedp5 via EV wrote: To be usable in the event of a replacement, a battery requires regular cyclising during its storage period, i.e. specific charging and discharging for the purpose of preservation. Otherwise it would suffer from deep discharging, which can lead to battery defects. Huh? Who said that lithium ion batteries needed to be cycled (or 'cyclised') while in storage? Aren't they OK when stored at around 40-70% SOC? The way I heard this deal a few years ago, the idea was that when the battery capacity was too low for use in an EV, the battery would be demoted to grid leveling service. Unless this "reporter" is as clueless about this Diamler notion as he is about how steam cars worked, in Diamler's world, it's the other way round. I don't think that's a world I'm interested in joining, thank you. It sounds like if I'm driving a Smart ED (love that designation) and I need a new battery, I can't have one. Diamler will sell me a USED battery, one that's been doing grid leveling for some time already. Are they going to give me a price reduced by the proportion of already-used cycle life? Something smells kind of foul here. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Smart fortwo EV Batteries' second-life @Work> a win-win
On 9 Feb 2016 at 4:21, brucedp5 via EV wrote: > To be usable in the event of a replacement, a battery requires regular > cyclising during its storage period, i.e. specific charging and > discharging for the purpose of preservation. Otherwise it would suffer > from deep discharging, which can lead to battery defects. Huh? Who said that lithium ion batteries needed to be cycled (or 'cyclised') while in storage? Aren't they OK when stored at around 40-70% SOC? The way I heard this deal a few years ago, the idea was that when the battery capacity was too low for use in an EV, the battery would be demoted to grid leveling service. Unless this "reporter" is as clueless about this Diamler notion as he is about how steam cars worked, in Diamler's world, it's the other way round. I don't think that's a world I'm interested in joining, thank you. It sounds like if I'm driving a Smart ED (love that designation) and I need a new battery, I can't have one. Diamler will sell me a USED battery, one that's been doing grid leveling for some time already. Are they going to give me a price reduced by the proportion of already-used cycle life? Something smells kind of foul here. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
