Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-10 Thread Cor van de Water via EV
Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Mr23 via EV Sent: Friday, June 10, 2016 1:58 PM To: ev@lists.evdl.org Subject: Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging 3.3kW wireless charging pads exist now for electric vehicles. Why not wireless through

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-10 Thread Mr23 via EV
3.3kW wireless charging pads exist now for electric vehicles. Why not wireless through the roofing/deck ? -Chris On 6/8/2016 3:03 PM, Seth Rothenberg via EV wrote: It's funny to see this discussion about panels. I spent 2 hours on the roof yesterday watching the Solar installer find a roof

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-08 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV
-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Roger Stockton via EV Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 3:21 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging Robert Bruninga wrote: > Yes, as far as VOLTS and as AMPS as averages are concer

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-08 Thread Cor van de Water via EV
Vehicle Discussion List; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging Isn't irrelevant in the USA. We have building codes that must be followed. From: Robert Bruninga via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion Li

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-08 Thread Cor van de Water via EV
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging Cor van de Water wrote: > Roger, > You used the wrong definition. The Wikipedia quote is about the power > delivered to the *load* but the discussion was about the power losses in &g

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-08 Thread Roger Stockton via EV
Cor van de Water wrote: > Roger, > You used the wrong definition. The Wikipedia quote is about the power > delivered to the *load* but the discussion was about the power losses in > the *wire* feeding the load. No; just as the power dissipated in a resistive load remains the same, the power

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-08 Thread Lee Hart via EV
Re RMS: This stuff is tricky. I don't blame folks for being confused. If you're powering a resistive load, AC RMS and DC are identical. Line losses are the same. The resistance in the wire is no different than the resistance in the load. The losses and power dissipated in both of them are the

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-08 Thread Cor van de Water via EV
...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart via EV Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 11:03 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: > Still not true. The output of microinverters is at 240 VAC and the average > c

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-08 Thread paul dove via EV
Isn't irrelevant in the USA. We have building codes that must be followed. From: Robert Bruninga via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 7:47 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-08 Thread Seth Rothenberg via EV
It's funny to see this discussion about panels. I spent 2 hours on the roof yesterday watching the Solar installer find a roof leak under the junction box. (Each person defines his own "fun" :-) (It took about 4 years to show up in a storm) (Apparently, they stopped the practice of gluing the

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-08 Thread Cor van de Water via EV
[mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 12:07 PM To: Robert Bruninga; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging Robert, I'm not sure how much effect the Skin Effect has. But for #2

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-08 Thread Cor van de Water via EV
Roger Stockton quoted: "For a cyclically alternating electric current, RMS is equal to the value of the direct current that would produce the same power dissipation in a resistive load." - Roger, You used the wrong definition. The Wikipedia quote

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-08 Thread paul dove via EV
      From: Robert Bruninga via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging   > The only time high voltage helps is when you need to have

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-08 Thread Roger Stockton via EV
Robert Bruninga wrote: > Yes, as far as VOLTS and as AMPS as averages are concerned. Such as > average power. A 1500W resistor will be 1500W whether on DC or RMS AC. > > But the power loss in wires feeding that resistor will have greater loss > on AC because of two factors important in

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-08 Thread Peri Hartman via EV
- 1MV is way different than 220V. Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Robert Bruninga via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> Sent: 08-Jun-16 11:53:51 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electr

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-08 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: > Still not true. The output of microinverters is at 240 VAC and the > average current in the wires will be double as the same number of panels at

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-08 Thread Lee Hart via EV
Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: Still not true. The output of microinverters is at 240 VAC and the average current in the wires will be double as the same number of panels at 480 VDC. But each microinverter has its own wire. The total current may be twice as much in a 240v system as in a 480v

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-08 Thread Lee Hart via EV
Peri Hartman via EV wrote: I think Lee was referring to how you wire the panels together, not the house. You could wire your panels in parallel and, as long as your inverter is near the panels, not incur any more line losses than a series system. Right! PV panels are physically large, even

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-08 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV
Just to clarify... >The only time high voltage helps is when you need to have > long wire runs [and long means over a few tens of feet] > > However, if you're using small low-voltage individual inverters > mounted right on each panel to one big central inverter located > far away, then the

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-08 Thread Lee Hart via EV
David Kerzel wrote: In example 1 series you have 2 12 inch leads out of the pack. In example 2 parallel you use all the leads to connect them together and the 12 inch leads out of the pack are missing, They would add .001 ohm each if the same size wire which is a second 40 watts. View with a

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-08 Thread Lee Hart via EV
Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: The only time high voltage helps is when you need to have long wire runs... The operative word is "long" And when you wire a house for every room and for every appliance and for every outlet (whether used fully or not) then every wire is "long". What is "long"

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-08 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV
lectric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> Sent: 08-Jun-16 5:47:59 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging >> The only time high voltage helps is when you need to have long wire >runs... > >The operative word is "long" And whe

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-08 Thread Peri Hartman via EV
" <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> Sent: 08-Jun-16 5:47:59 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging The only time high voltage helps is when you need to have long wire runs... The operative wo

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-08 Thread jerry freedomev via EV
;ev@lists.evdl.org> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging > The only time high voltage helps is when you need to have long wire runs... The operative word  is "long

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-08 Thread David Kerzel via EV
- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart via EV Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 11:24 PM To: Larry Gales; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging Larry Gales via EV wrote: > Thanks, I was somewhat aware of the increa

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-08 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV
Gales; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging Larry Gales via EV wrote: > Thanks, I was somewhat aware of the increased use of copper, but not > to the extent that you specify, so it looks like AC is the way to go, > even for off-grid so

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-07 Thread Lee Hart via EV
Larry Gales via EV wrote: Thanks, I was somewhat aware of the increased use of copper, but not to the extent that you specify, so it looks like AC is the way to go, even for off-grid solar. Lower voltage means higher current and bigger wires; but it's not as bad as you think. First,

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-07 Thread Haudy Kazemi via EV
de >back >> around 1995 - 1997 or so) >> >> From: Robert Bruninga via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> >> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2016 10:39 AM >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar ho

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-07 Thread Larry Gales via EV
esday, June 7, 2016 10:39 AM > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging > > > If you build an off-grid solar house and use it for both your house > > and charging your electric car, are there any disadvantages for using > > DC current (household appli

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-07 Thread robert winfield via EV
g> Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2016 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging > If you build an off-grid solar house and use it for both your house > and charging your electric car, are there any disadvantages for using > DC current (household appliances

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-07 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV
> If you build an off-grid solar house and use it for both your house > and charging your electric car, are there any disadvantages for using > DC current (household appliances can all be converted to DC) and > avoiding AC since you are off the grid? You avoid the cost, > maintenance, and

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-06 Thread Lee Hart via EV
Michael Ross via EV wrote: Mike is correct - a single old inefficient panel can draw a sustained arc an inch or longer. Some decent sized farms have burned down because you can't just turn off the sun. There are important safety concern to learn about. 120v DC was used for power distribution

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-06 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV
their state's progress on solar. Bob, WB4APR -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Larry Gales via EV Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2016 10:29 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List; SEVA Subject: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging If you build

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-06 Thread Michael Ross via EV
Mike is correct - a single old inefficient panel can draw a sustained arc an inch or longer. Some decent sized farms have burned down because you can't just turn off the sun. There are important safety concern to learn about. On Jun 6, 2016 12:28 AM, "Mike Nickerson via EV"

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-06 Thread Michael Ross via EV
Inverters are really quite good and getting better. Micro inverters (one per panel that output 240 VAC) Solve a lot of design problems and make it easy to expand over time. But going off grid is very costly with many tradeoffs. You have to really want it and educate yourself well. If you are near

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-05 Thread Jorg Brown via EV
As I understand it, the DC output from solar panels is not at a fixed voltage, so you end up having to convert one DC voltage to another in order to power your house appliances. This DC-to-DC conversion isn't necessarily any more efficient than the DC-to-AC conversion that you would normally have

Re: [EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-05 Thread Mike Nickerson via EV
The main issue I can think of is the risk of someone unplugging something drawing high current. There could be a lot more flash and arc than people would expect from AC. Also, the conversion to DC would require new switches that were DC rated on the appliances. How would you put DC into the

[EVDL] Off-grid solar house and electric car charging

2016-06-05 Thread Larry Gales via EV
If you build an off-grid solar house and use it for both your house and charging your electric car, are there any disadvantages for using DC current (household appliances can all be converted to DC) and avoiding AC since you are off the grid? You avoid the cost, maintenance, and (slight)