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Today's Topics:
1. Re: The Secret Battery Technology No One Knows About ((-Phil-))
2. self charging systems (Tommey Reed) ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
3. Fahrvegn?gen and fuhgedaboutit: V-Dub Disses Hybrids,
Hydrogen & CO2 Concern (Marc Geller)
4. If I had 60 Odyssey PC680s (Ryan Stotts)
5. Re: Black & Decker (was: A123 power tools) (Shawn Rutledge)
6. Re: Is BMS needed for li-ion? (Daniel Cardenas)
7. Re: self charging systems (Tommey Reed) (Peter Gabrielsson)
8. Re: Black & Decker (was: A123 power tools) (Shawn Rutledge)
9. Re: self charging systems (Tommey Reed) (David Roden)
10. Re: The Secret Battery Technology No One Knows About (tomgocze)
11. Re: Is BMS needed for li-ion? (Peter Gabrielsson)
12. Volt on Youtube -- was: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport (Joe Fields)
13. Re: self charging systems (Tommey Reed) ((-Phil-))
14. Re: EV Digest, Vol 4, Issue 67 (Lawrence Rhodes)
15. Re: EV Digest, Vol 4, Issue 67 (Ryan Stotts)
16. Re: Volt on Youtube -- was: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport (Ryan Stotts)
17. Re: DIY Zener-Regulator How-To on YouTube (Loni)
18. Re: DIY Zener-Regulator How-To on YouTube (FRED JEANETTE MERTENS)
19. EV research funding (David Sharpe)
20. Re: The Secret Battery Technology No One Knows About (David Roden)
21. Re: Volt on Youtube -- was: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport
(Dan Frederiksen)
22. Re: Volt on Youtube -- was: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport ((-Phil-))
23. Re: Volt on Youtube -- was: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport
(Dan Frederiksen)
24. Re: The Secret Battery Technology No One Knows About (David Roden)
25. Re: Is BMS needed for li-ion? (Bill Dube)
26. McGill University Electric Snowmobile Team website
(Lawrence Rhodes)
27. Re: Volt on Youtube -- photos under the hood (Dan Frederiksen)
28. Re: Is BMS needed for li-ion? (Nikki Bloomfield)
29. Re: Is BMS needed for li-ion? (lyle sloan)
30. Re: Volt on Youtube -- was: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport (Kaido Kert)
31. Over-idiocy, was: self charging systems ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
32. Re: Volt on Youtube -- photos under the hood (Ryan Stotts)
33. Under the hood of the Volt ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
34. Re: Under the hood of the Volt (Kaido Kert)
35. Re: Under the hood of the Volt ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
36. Re: A123 power tools (David Roden)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 18:21:16 -0800
From: "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] The Secret Battery Technology No One Knows About
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
I'm really impressed by this system! I found some more information
including some pictures that show battery details:
http://www.gvea.com/about/bess/
http://www.gvea.com/about/bess/bessslideshow/
http://www.gvea.com/about/bess/purpose.php
http://www.gvea.com/about/bess/img/bess-timd.wmv
-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] The Secret Battery Technology No One Knows About
>I just ran the numbers and according to my calculations, this is like
>having
> a 40,000 amp hour 120v pack!
>
> -Phil
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Danny Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 12:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] The Secret Battery Technology No One Knows About
>
>
>> Saw something on The History Channel, probably "the history of
>> batteries" or something. (they keep doing "history of earth moving",
>> "history of ice"....)
>>
>> They showed a power station standby batt supply, I assume for handling
>> gaps when switching sources or something. Holy crap, a high ceiling
>> building full of Saft NiCd. They did say NiCd, not NiMH. It was recent
>> footage.
>>
>> Danny
>>
>> David Roden wrote:
>>
>>>On 24 Nov 2007 at 3:38, (-Phil-) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>If these batteries were cheaper, they would really make
>>>>EV maintenance a no-brainer.
>>>>
>>>>What happened to Ni-Cd?!?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>For a while, around a decade ago, a few types of Saft nicads were
>>>available
>>>from stock, at not-quite-unreasonable prices. A typical EV pack could be
>>>had for $8-12k.
>>>
>>>They are no longer in regular production. IMO (and this opinion may be a
>>>bit controversial) that's partly Saft's own fault.
>>>
>>>Saft went into production because several countries passed legislation
>>>encouraging and subsidizing EV pilot programs. Saft supplied batteries
>>>for
>>>many of the limited-production EVs including the Peugeot and Renault EVs.
>>>They were a relatively new design which minimized watering, and this
>>>seems
>>>to be where the problems originated.
>>>
>>>The batteries Saft supplied proved troublesome. They didn't live up to
>>>the
>>>cycle life performance set by earlier models. There were catastrophic
>>>failures; batteries ruptured and exploded.
>>>
>>>You can read more about this (alleged) defect here :
>>>
>>>http://www.evdl.org/docs/saft-failures.pdf
>>>
>>>If operated very carefully, with discharge current strictly limited, the
>>>failures could be minimized, but then of course vehicle performance was
>>>limited. Whether the vehicle makers actually fitted these limits to the
>>>cars is unclear to me.
>>>
>>>Saft reportedly initially denied that their batteries were the problem,
>>>but
>>>finally in the early 2000s they redesigned the separators. This greatly
>>>reduced the failure rate.
>>>
>>>However, by that time the damage was done. The pilot program EVs had not
>>>proven to be reliable. Some of the program participants and directors
>>>declared the pilot programs a failure. The nicad-equipped cars dropped
>>>off
>>>the lists of available vehicles. Toward the end of the programs, the EV
>>>lists I saw contained mostly scooters and bikes.
>>>
>>>I'm not a European, only reacting to what I've read online, and to be
>>>fair
>>>I'll yield to the judgement of those who were really there and saw what
>>>happened. However, it appears to me that this debacle set European EV
>>>development back 5-10 years.
>>>
>>>(BTW, from what I understand, this problem never affected the older
>>>design
>>>modules with removeable cell caps - just the MR (reduced maintenance)
>>>range
>>>with closed tops. Someone please correct me if that impression is
>>>wrong.)
>>>
>>>When the EU passed stringent new regulations on cadmium use, that was the
>>>final nail in the coffin for Saft's nicads.
>>>
>>>As for the cost of nickel, that's unquestionably an issue. Like many
>>>other
>>>metals, it's gone to the sky for many reasons. However, doesn't it seem
>>>odd
>>>that consumer NiMH cells haven't increased much in price? There are
>>>still
>>>plenty of good quality AA cells available at around $2.50 each retail.
>>>Perhaps it's just competition that keeps those cells cheap. And once you
>>>get beyond golf car batteries, there certainly isn't much of THAT in the
>>>world of EV-size batteries.
>>>
>>>A footnote. In the early 1990s, Saft had plans to build a plant to
>>>manufacture NiMH batteries in the US. They abandoned those plans when
>>>the
>>>California ZEV legislation (Braude Initiative) was weakened. I could
>>>comment on that, but it's probably better not to as it could head into
>>>political territory, so I'll let you draw your own conclusions.
>>>
>>>David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>>>EVDL Administrator
>>>
>>>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>>>EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
>>>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>>>Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not
>>>reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
>>>email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
>>>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>For subscription options, see
>>>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 21:57:39 -0500
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [EVDL] self charging systems (Tommey Reed)
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I have tested a pulse motor i made and found that it could charge batteries
with no load on your dc motor!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Pl2Rn5w5eU
________________________________________________________________________
Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- Unlimited storage and industry-leading
spam and email virus protection.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 15:31:42 -0800
From: Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Fahrvegn?gen and fuhgedaboutit: V-Dub Disses Hybrids,
Hydrogen & CO2 Concern
To: EV Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, RAV4 EV
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes;
format=flowed
Fahrvegn?gen and fuhgedaboutit: V-Dub Disses Hybrids, Hydrogen & CO2
Concern
http://www.plugsandcars.blogspot.com
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 21:17:47 -0600
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] If I had 60 Odyssey PC680s
To: EVDL <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Two packs of 30 and one PFC-50. How exactly is the charger wired up
to two "separate" packs? Considering the two packs are both connected
to the lug on the Zilla.
Also, what's the best way to have the Zilla not connected to the packs
during charging?
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 20:28:03 -0700
From: "Shawn Rutledge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Black & Decker (was: A123 power tools)
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Nov 24, 2007 6:23 PM, (-Phil-) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just so everyone knows, Black and Decker is who makes DeWalt tools. It is
> their "professional" division, where tools labeled "B&D" are generally
> marketed for home use.
OK.
> And 1100 AH?! Do you mean 11.0 AH? 1.1 AH?
Sorry 1100 mAH.
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 20:33:52 -0700
From: Daniel Cardenas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Is BMS needed for li-ion?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Lee Hart wrote:
> From: Daniel Cardenas
>> I?m selling electric scooters with out a BMS. Haven?t had long
>> term testing completed yet. My question is: Is a BMS a requirement?
>
> It is for every kind of lithium battery I've seen. Here's the fundamental
> problem:
>
> 1. If you overcharge a cell, you damage it.
> 2. If you over-discharge a cell, you damage it.
> 3. Each cell has slightly different charge/discharge efficiency.
>
> This mean that on every successive charge/discharge cycles, the cells slowly
> move apart in state of charge. If all you are measuring is the total voltage,
> then you will be misled. You might think they are all at 3.6v, but in fact
> some are 3.4v and some are 3.8v.
>
> Failures might just cause a lack of range and early battery death (warranty
> returns). But the failure modes of lithiums can be pretty grim (fires,
> explosions. Every manufacturer I know of includes a BMS rather than risk
> short batery life and fires.
>
> Before you put your scooter in production without a BMS, I suggest you put a
> system in your prototype that measures every individual cell voltage. Watch
> what happens to them over a hundred charge/discharge cycles or so!
>
Yes, but:
1) I'm adding a large guard band to the voltage specs, both high and low. Max
cell voltage is 4.25, I'm only going to
3.75. Min voltage per cell is 2.5, I'm trying to stay above 2.75V. So if they
are off a bit no sweat.
2) Paktrakr or other method can be used to monitor potentially failing cells
and replace them as needed.
For example after a long ride you measure the voltage of the cells and two
cells are near 2.5 while the others average
2.8 volts. It would be time to replace those two cells. Not sure if battery
replacement will cost more than a BMS in
the long run. Perhaps the weaker cells can be swapped back in after the pack
downgrades a bit.
So my options are:
1. Increase the guard band
2. Get a half BMS, just works during charge or discharge
3. Full BMS.
Danny Miller wrote:
> Yeah you definitely do. Even if the mfg matches the spec initially,
> it's not going to stay that way, and nor does it address cumulative
> charge imbalance issues.
>
> $1000 for a BMS? How many cells and AH per cell? There are different
> ways to make or get ahold of a BMS so maybe you could look again at what
> might be available.
20 cells. An individual cell charger is $500+, including the necessary wiring.
Then you have to consider battery
management during cell discharge. 40ah per cell, thundersky batteries. Any
pointers for BMS?
Thanks so much!
Daniel
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 19:40:16 -0800
From: "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] self charging systems (Tommey Reed)
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hilarious
On Nov 24, 2007 6:57 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have tested a pulse motor i made and found that it could charge batteries
> with no load on your dc motor!
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Pl2Rn5w5eU
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- Unlimited storage and industry-leading
> spam and email virus protection.
> _______________________________________________
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>
--
www.electric-lemon.com
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 20:53:55 -0700
From: "Shawn Rutledge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Black & Decker (was: A123 power tools)
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
There is some detailed info here:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=768729
I didn't realize A123 made smaller cells, but apparently that's what
the VPX packs are.
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 23:07:53 -0500
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] self charging systems (Tommey Reed)
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Folks, please do not respond to this thread. The EVDL agreed years ago to
not discuss "over unity" and "free energy" subjects.
http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Thanks.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not
reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 23:05:22 -0500
From: tomgocze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] The Secret Battery Technology No One Knows About
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
I have been using some surplus big nicads (100ah) on my S10 for about
a year. They seem to work well and are pretty robust when overcharged.
I am using a Zivan set up for nicads which seems to work fine with
the algorithm for nicads. I had used an old Lester charger that
overcharged them, gassing them a lot, with no issues. The surplus
dealer I got them from said they could take a really big current and
not be damaged (~100amps!)
Some of these were starter batteries for jet aircraft and could dump
their charge in seconds while starting them.
My experience is that if you keep them watered (Not a big deal), they
will last longer than I will.
People have given me old nickel iron and nicads that are probably
older than me, that work and still charge. As long as they are not
dry, most of them
work pretty well or can be serviced with new electrolyte.
For my experience, which is limited, nicads work well, are usually
overbuilt for my application, and are probably physically too big for
most ev's, but they were reasonable for a bullet proof surplus battery.
If I was buying new, I would buy lead, but these were relatively
cheap and work. I hope I never have to ship them to PA, since as Bob
found, it ain't cheap to dispose of them.
Tom in Maine
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 20:16:14 -0800
From: "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Is BMS needed for li-ion?
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Nov 24, 2007 7:33 PM, Daniel Cardenas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yes, but:
> 1) I'm adding a large guard band to the voltage specs, both high and low. Max
> cell voltage is 4.25, I'm only going to
> 3.75. Min voltage per cell is 2.5, I'm trying to stay above 2.75V. So if
> they are off a bit no sweat.
But for every cycle the slight difference in voltage will increase,
your guard band only protects you for so long. In my experience cells
can migrate apart pretty fast due to factors like manufacturing
tolerances and temperature differences in the pack.
>
> 2) Paktrakr or other method can be used to monitor potentially failing cells
> and replace them as needed.
>
> For example after a long ride you measure the voltage of the cells and two
> cells are near 2.5 while the others average
> 2.8 volts. It would be time to replace those two cells. Not sure if battery
> replacement will cost more than a BMS in
> the long run. Perhaps the weaker cells can be swapped back in after the
> pack downgrades a bit.
The low cells are not necessarily bad, they just need a little bit of
individual charging to bring them back in line with the rest of the
pack.
> So my options are:
> 1. Increase the guard band
> 2. Get a half BMS, just works during charge or discharge
> 3. Full BMS.
In your application you only need the BMS to balance the pack during
charge and just monitor it otherwise.
--
www.electric-lemon.com
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 20:29:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Joe Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Volt on Youtube -- was: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
These clips reminded me of another classic EV related segment on YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fN1SPIJ7v0
I can't believe GM would let this (obviously professionally done) video be
released
given that the car can barely get out of its own way!
Last night my wife noted that VOLT is contained (in the correct order)
among the letters in cheVrOLeT, and when you get the VOLT out of
Chevrolet it leaves "chere" (that's French for "expensive").
Ed Thorpe wrote:
>
> There are several videos showing the Volt in action - no very fast nor
> quiet (for an EV) - overall not impressive for an EV. Even an NEV
> drives faster than these demonstrations.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM4F1qtAEyI
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVEUCOU_-yc&feature=related
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7qU1EcEZmA&feature=related
>
>
> -Ed Thorpe
>
>
--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/article%3A-Mitsubishi-i-MiEV-Sport---brutally-fast-electric-sports-car-prototype-tf4694942s25542.html#a13932657
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 20:39:33 -0800
From: "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] self charging systems (Tommey Reed)
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
This claim would result in over-unity, and thus simply not possible.
In addition there is no "M" in Capacitor.
-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 6:57 PM
Subject: [EVDL] self charging systems (Tommey Reed)
>I have tested a pulse motor i made and found that it could charge batteries
>with no load on your dc motor!
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Pl2Rn5w5eU
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- Unlimited storage and
> industry-leading spam and email virus protection.
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------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 20:40:12 -0800
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 4, Issue 67
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
That is one big momma if the 2 + inch shaft size is any indication. Also
they won't ship. You could probably build an electric monster truck with
this motor. Lawrence Rhodes........................
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 08:20:41 -0800
> From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [EVDL] Is this a vaible motor?
> To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> ebay 220174479206
>
> I think it is too massive, but it is hard to tell from the info on the
> page and I can't read that label.
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 22:52:31 -0600
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 4, Issue 67
To: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Electric Vehicle
Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
What type of rpm is a motor like that good for?
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 22:56:19 -0600
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Volt on Youtube -- was: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> Ed Thorpe wrote:
> >
> > There are several videos showing the Volt in action - no very fast nor
> > quiet (for an EV) - overall not impressive for an EV. Even an NEV
> > drives faster than these demonstrations.
The Tesla site had under hood pics posted at one time. It looked like
a single D&D motor and a single AGM battery for the show car as seen
moving in the third video.
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 20:55:08 -0800
From: "Loni" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] DIY Zener-Regulator How-To on YouTube
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
> As others mentioned, you don't need #8 wire -- even #22 will do because
> the current is so low. I put the lamp in the center of the wire so the
> heat from it and the zener aren't in the same spot. I used "heavy duty"
> ring terminals which work better as heat sinks.
I thought about puting the lamps in the middle too, but on US Electricar
Prisms anything that isn't tucked down next to the terminals stands a good
chance of being crunched when the pack is sandwiched up to the floorboards.
I decided not to chance it. Great idea for other zener-reg builders though.
Where did you find "heavy duty" ring terminals? At Mouser.com they were
spendy for the overkill 8-gauge wire I was using, so I got mine locally from
a battery specialty store.
Lon
PS: Guys like me who are taking the plunge into EV ownership from
non-electrical backgrounds owe a real debt of gratitude to those who put
forth ideas for such things as zener-regs. Next time you're in Portland I'm
buying the beer... : )
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 23:11:07 -0600
From: "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] DIY Zener-Regulator How-To on YouTube
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
try your local electric supply house , under whole sale electric dealers ,
another place is grangers if not local www,granger,com some mechinical
parts at mcmaster/carr also on thr net but don't know address
----- Original Message -----
From: Loni<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] DIY Zener-Regulator How-To on YouTube
> As others mentioned, you don't need #8 wire -- even #22 will do because
> the current is so low. I put the lamp in the center of the wire so the
> heat from it and the zener aren't in the same spot. I used "heavy duty"
> ring terminals which work better as heat sinks.
I thought about puting the lamps in the middle too, but on US Electricar
Prisms anything that isn't tucked down next to the terminals stands a good
chance of being crunched when the pack is sandwiched up to the floorboards.
I decided not to chance it. Great idea for other zener-reg builders though.
Where did you find "heavy duty" ring terminals? At Mouser.com they were
spendy for the overkill 8-gauge wire I was using, so I got mine locally from
a battery specialty store.
Lon
PS: Guys like me who are taking the plunge into EV ownership from
non-electrical backgrounds owe a real debt of gratitude to those who put
forth ideas for such things as zener-regs. Next time you're in Portland I'm
buying the beer... : )
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev<http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev>
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 08:08:54 +1100
From: "David Sharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] EV research funding
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Australian Electric Vehicle Association (AEVA) is considering funding some
Australian Universities in a small way (1000s of dollars) to provide a prize
for a final year undergraduate or perhaps PhD project for some promising
project that might advance EVs perhaps in battery chemistry or drives. I
will be on the working group. I call for suggestions that we can put to the
universities.
David Sharpe
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 00:23:38 -0500
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] The Secret Battery Technology No One Knows About
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
On 24 Nov 2007 at 14:49, Danny Miller wrote:
> a high ceiling
> building full of Saft NiCd. They did say NiCd, not NiMH. It was recent
> footage.
I don't know the specifics of the EU's cadmium regulations. It may be that
they will now build them only for export. They might even have to build
them here in the States. Maybe one of our European correspondents knows
more about this.
A few years ago Saft had a catalog listing a huge range of sizes in single
cells. I inquired after them once. I was told that none was available from
stock, but that they'd do a production run of whatever size I wanted, as
long as I ordered enough to make it worth starting up the line. I didn't
ask how many that was, but somehow I don't think one EV's worth would have
been sufficient. The context suggested that they were thinking of a
commitment to purchase some tens to some hundreds of EV packs.
So, an interested EV parts dealer could probably negotiate a bulk purchase,
at least for US-based EV hobbyists. There'd be no problem with depreciation
in storage as nicads pretty much don't. You can store them at any state of
charge (preferably zero or close to it) and they don't suffer from
sulfation. About the only potential problem might be carbonation of the
electrolyte, and I think that takes years (again correct me if that's
wrong).
The real problem would be cost. I don't think the real price is that much
higher than it was 10 years ago, but the dollar has fallen precipitously
against the Euro (and most other currencies) since then. A one-Euro item
cost 85 cents in 2000; today it takes almost $1.50 to buy that item.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 06:51:23 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Volt on Youtube -- was: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I think it's because when they brought it out it was rushed damage
control after 'who killed the electric car' and or to give the
impression that EVs shouldn't look sporty because they are obviously too
weak. I think mainly the first. it's a rolling concept car that they
weren't seriously considering before they were shamed by the documentary.
I think Bob Lutz would honestly like to see the Volt become real but CEO
Wagoner seems more the usual two faced fickle beast bastard that would
just as soon fuck up the world as release the Volt. I think it also
interestingly speaks to their competence that they didn't just make a
conversion using a curtis or similar so they could present a fully
functioning car and give the impression that they were working on it
prior to the docu. it's not like it would take any real time to convert
a prototype gas car that way and I believe they had the chassis and body
already. let's face it, it doesn't look like a car designed with the
design freedoms electric drive offers.
Dan
Joe Fields wrote:
> These clips reminded me of another classic EV related segment on YouTube.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fN1SPIJ7v0
>
> I can't believe GM would let this (obviously professionally done) video be
> released
> given that the car can barely get out of its own way!
>
> Last night my wife noted that VOLT is contained (in the correct order)
> among the letters in cheVrOLeT, and when you get the VOLT out of
> Chevrolet it leaves "chere" (that's French for "expensive").
>
>
> Ed Thorpe wrote:
>
>> There are several videos showing the Volt in action - no very fast nor
>> quiet (for an EV) - overall not impressive for an EV. Even an NEV
>> drives faster than these demonstrations.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM4F1qtAEyI
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVEUCOU_-yc&feature=related
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7qU1EcEZmA&feature=related
>>
>>
>> -Ed Thorpe
>>
>>
>>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 22:01:55 -0800
From: "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Volt on Youtube -- was: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
In watching the videos, it's pretty apparent it's just a mock up car, it
appears to have zero suspension travel, and likely a small DC motor you can
hear revving at high speed when the car is only moving 10mph or so.
They probably ripped the components from a golf car to make it actually
move. It's probably only so they can get a few publicity shots.
The clearance between the tires and body seems insufficient for a production
car, but they really made it look good and that's about it.
-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Fields" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 8:29 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Volt on Youtube -- was: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport
>
> These clips reminded me of another classic EV related segment on YouTube.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fN1SPIJ7v0
>
> I can't believe GM would let this (obviously professionally done) video be
> released
> given that the car can barely get out of its own way!
>
> Last night my wife noted that VOLT is contained (in the correct order)
> among the letters in cheVrOLeT, and when you get the VOLT out of
> Chevrolet it leaves "chere" (that's French for "expensive").
>
>
> Ed Thorpe wrote:
>>
>> There are several videos showing the Volt in action - no very fast nor
>> quiet (for an EV) - overall not impressive for an EV. Even an NEV
>> drives faster than these demonstrations.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM4F1qtAEyI
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVEUCOU_-yc&feature=related
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7qU1EcEZmA&feature=related
>>
>>
>> -Ed Thorpe
>>
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/article%3A-Mitsubishi-i-MiEV-Sport---brutally-fast-electric-sports-car-prototype-tf4694942s25542.html#a13932657
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 23
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 07:04:15 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Volt on Youtube -- was: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
interesting. do you have those by any chance?
Ryan Stotts wrote:
> The Tesla site had under hood pics posted at one time. It looked like
> a single D&D motor and a single AGM battery for the show car as seen
> moving in the third video.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 24
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 20:27:38 -0500
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] The Secret Battery Technology No One Knows About
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
On 24 Nov 2007 at 14:49, Danny Miller wrote:
> a high ceiling
> building full of Saft NiCd. They did say NiCd, not NiMH. It was recent
> footage.
I don't know the specifics of the EU's cadmium regulations. It may be that
they will now build them only for export. They might even have to build
them here in the States. Maybe one of our European correspondents knows
more about this.
A few years ago Saft had a catalog listing a huge range of sizes in single
cells. I inquired after them once. I was told that none was available from
stock, but that they'd do a production run of whatever size I wanted, as
long as I ordered enough to make it worth starting up the line. I didn't
ask how many that was, but somehow I don't think one EV's worth would have
been sufficient. The context suggested that they were thinking of a
commitment to purchase some tens to some hundreds of EV packs.
So, an interested EV parts dealer could probably negotiate a bulk purchase,
at least for US-based EV hobbyists. There'd be no problem with depreciation
in storage as nicads pretty much don't. You can store them at any state of
charge (preferably zero or close to it) and they don't suffer from
sulfation. About the only potential problem might be carbonation of the
electrolyte, and I think that takes years (again correct me if that's
wrong).
The real problem would be cost. I don't think the real price is that much
higher than it was 10 years ago, but the dollar has fallen precipitously
against the Euro (and most other currencies) since then. A one-Euro item
cost 85 cents in 2000; today it takes almost $1.50 to buy that item.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not
reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
------------------------------
Message: 25
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 00:14:22 -0700
From: Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Is BMS needed for li-ion?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
I've seen folks sell products without a BMS with disastrous results.
It never ends well. It often ends up in a lawsuit and/or a bankruptcy.
The self-discharge is very strongly influenced by temperature. The
center cells are ALWAYS a different temperature than the end cells.
Thus, no matter how closely matched the cells are off the assembly
line, they will go out of balance quickly in a battery pack.
Once you slightly "wound" a cell by overcharge or under voltage, the
pack goes out of balance very quickly. The pack won't last more than
a few cycles.
I think the consumer will be willing to pay twice as much for a pack
that will last 1500 cycles as they would for a pack that will last 10
to 20 cycles. You will end up paying the price of the BMS, one way or another.
Bill Dube'
The fact that inexpensive-to-produce, practical, BMS electronics are
possible is what makes these modern battery technologies possible.
Chemistries that produce the best power and energy require the
protection electronics. It is the engineering compromise that has
been made, and you must accept that fact.
------------------------------
Message: 26
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 23:47:36 -0800
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] McGill University Electric Snowmobile Team website
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
http://electricsnowmobile.mcgill.ca/English/index.htm
------------------------------
Message: 27
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 08:27:29 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Volt on Youtube -- photos under the hood
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
found the under the hood photos:
http://sirymarketing.blogspot.com/2007/03/more-on-volt.html
I light blasted the photos so we can better see:
http://www.zev.dk/misc/TED6.jpg
http://www.zev.dk/misc/TED5.jpg
interesting : )
doesn't that look like a DC series motor? (anything but EV1 technology)
Dan
Dan Frederiksen skrev:
> interesting. do you have those by any chance?
>
> Ryan Stotts wrote:
>
>> The Tesla site had under hood pics posted at one time. It looked like
>> a single D&D motor and a single AGM battery for the show car as seen
>> moving in the third video.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 28
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 07:18:13 +0000
From: Nikki Bloomfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Is BMS needed for li-ion?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes
How are you proposing to control voltage? If it is via active control
then all is okay but if you are talking no control at all then
absolutely not! The things which would occur if the batteries went
into thermal run- away would probably result in fire, litigious
claimants and bad publicity for EV drivers and makers world wide.
Remember the Sony laptop batteries?
Cedric lynch in the uk makes a very reasonable cell protector for
thundersky cells. I beleive it costs ?12 per protector and monitors
both charge and discharge. I use the reap system BMS which is far more
expensive but is more customizable.
I am not sure quite what you have planned an please forgive me if I
have got it wrong. However, I think you are asking the customer to
monitor their own pack status. This is fine for the informed amateur
or DIY conversion but a well designed BMS is imperative for anyone in
a commercial application, especially of a vehicle aimed at converts
from gasoline.
What BMS units have you tried?
Regards
Nikki
Sent from my iPhone.
On 24 Nov 2007, at 23:39, Daniel Cardenas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I?m selling electric scooters with out a BMS. Haven?t had long
> term testing completed yet. My question is: Is a BMS a
> requirement?
>
> Here is the situation: Bulk purchase of li-ion battery back costs
> roughly $1,500. Full BMS costs $1,000+. To
> compensate for lack of a BMS I?ve asked the manufacturer to tighten
> up the voltage for li-ion batteries. See below figure:
> http://fun.evs.googlepages.com/li-ion_battery_range.jpg
> The solution I?m proposing to the equalization problem and cell reve
> rsible problem is a guardband on the voltage and
> self monitoring. Self monitoring can come from using a voltmeter or
> using something like PakTrakr .
>
> What do you think? Does this sound like a viable alternative until
> price of BMS comes down?
>
> Thanks,
> Daniel
> http://fun-ev.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
------------------------------
Message: 29
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 00:35:57 -0800 (PST)
From: lyle sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Is BMS needed for li-ion?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I saw this scenario plenty of times on the old
Visforvoltage.com, scootercommuterforum, etc.
"I just bought [insert name here] electric scooter.
It doesnt work. I have contacted [insert name here]
via email but have not received a reply. Their
website seems to be old or not working, too. HELP!!"
It kinda gets old after awhile. I hope to prevent
that same travesty with you. So here is what I have
observed.
Essentially, Customers are pretty simple when it comes
to electric scooters. They will drive it til its
dead. Then try to recharge it. It wont matter what
battery type it is. If the scooter doesnt recharge or
work like it should, they will return it. They will
not follow whatever prescibed maintenance or
conditions you may state, but will say that they did
when they try to return it.
Overall, Quality is something lacking on many electric
scooters which if you want to build a lasting business
is something that you need to emphasize, especially if
you are small. Inshort, You need to include a BMS not
just for the customer, but for you. A BMS is an
assurance of quality even when the customer ABUSES the
scooter because a BMS will ensure that a customer is
doing the right thing by shutting off at a limit Which
will reduce the amount of returns and means maybe a
happy customer. This will lead to repeat business or
as in this day in age at least a good review on an
online forum. Also please keep in mind that this is
many times a persons first foray into EV's. How well
and how long your product works will resound for the
rest of their lives.
Although, You sound pretty convinced that you can get
by without it; even though we all know (including you)
that it needs to be included. Maybe, your flegdling
business can handle an influx of returns because you
failed to include a BMS or worse a lawsuit from a
fire, Go ahead and do what you think you can get by
with. And maybe the customer will monitor his pack
and not run it to ground.
--- Daniel Cardenas wrote:
> Yes, but:
> 1) I'm adding a large guard band to the voltage
> specs, both high and low. Max cell voltage is 4.25,
> I'm only going to
> 3.75. Min voltage per cell is 2.5, I'm trying to
> stay above 2.75V. So if they are off a bit no sweat.
>
> 2) Paktrakr or other method can be used to monitor
> potentially failing cells and replace them as
> needed.
>
> For example after a long ride you measure the
> voltage of the cells and two cells are near 2.5
> while the others average
> 2.8 volts. It would be time to replace those two
> cells. Not sure if battery replacement will cost
> more than a BMS in
> the long run. Perhaps the weaker cells can be
> swapped back in after the pack downgrades a bit.
> So my options are:
> 1. Increase the guard band
> 2. Get a half BMS, just works during charge or
> discharge
> 3. Full BMS.
>
>
> Danny Miller wrote:
> > Yeah you definitely do. Even if the mfg matches
> the spec initially,
> > it's not going to stay that way, and nor does it
> address cumulative
> > charge imbalance issues.
> >
> > $1000 for a BMS? How many cells and AH per cell?
> There are different
> > ways to make or get ahold of a BMS so maybe you
> could look again at what
> > might be available.
>
> 20 cells. An individual cell charger is $500+,
> including the necessary wiring. Then you have to
> consider battery
> management during cell discharge. 40ah per cell,
> thundersky batteries. Any pointers for BMS?
>
> Thanks so much!
> Daniel
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
------------------------------
Message: 30
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 10:46:02 +0200
From: "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Volt on Youtube -- was: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On Nov 25, 2007 8:01 AM, (-Phil-) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In watching the videos, it's pretty apparent it's just a mock up car, it
> appears to have zero suspension travel, and likely a small DC motor you can
> hear revving at high speed when the car is only moving 10mph or so.
>
> They probably ripped the components from a golf car to make it actually
> move. It's probably only so they can get a few publicity shots.
Correct, the pics of the stuff under the hood are here:
http://sirymarketing.blogspot.com/2007/03/more-on-volt.html
In short, its an empty design shell, not a car prototype.
GM themselves have said that they hope to get the first mules for
component testing, based on Malibu chassis on the road early next
year, while the final production car will be eventually more based on
Cobalt
The original poster submitted those videos to compare with
preproduction MiEVs. Well, MiEVs happen to be at stage of
preproduction prototypes, which means that all the parts of the car
are there, and it meets its performance and safety specs. I would
encourage you to take another look of the videos featuring it, even
the ones with japanese labels.
-kert
------------------------------
Message: 31
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 01:02:54 -0800
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [EVDL] Over-idiocy, was: self charging systems
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes";
format="flowed"
Remember the Kiwi a few years ago who hand-built his own motor and
said it created no EMF? Now we have Tommmeee who will put that
worthless EMF to good use and generate more power than went into the
motor in the first place! All we need is Tilley showing us how
lead-acid batteries generate energy when rested to have the
triumvirate of the clueless...
------------------------------
Message: 32
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 03:12:55 -0600
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Volt on Youtube -- photos under the hood
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Dan wrote:
> found the under the hood photos:
> http://sirymarketing.blogspot.com/2007/03/more-on-volt.html
>
> I light blasted the photos so we can better see:
> http://www.zev.dk/misc/TED6.jpg
> http://www.zev.dk/misc/TED5.jpg
I never did figure out what those three boxes with a single cable each
were. And what is that box in the driver side corner? And the
purpose of the white bucket?
------------------------------
Message: 33
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 01:18:10 -0800
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [EVDL] Under the hood of the Volt
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes";
format="flowed"
> The Tesla site had under hood pics posted at one time. It looked like
> a single D&D motor and a single AGM battery for the show car as seen
> moving in the third video.
The pic is even mentioned on GM's site:
http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/03/22/whats-under-the-volts-hood/
and one more:
http://fuelzilla.com/chevy-volt-bucket-loads-of-deception/
Considering they have no drivetrain to demonstrate and even the
prototype shell has a poor Cd, it seems like it will still be in
development by 2010...
------------------------------
Message: 34
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 12:04:14 +0200
From: "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Under the hood of the Volt
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On Nov 25, 2007 11:18 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > The Tesla site had under hood pics posted at one time. It looked like
> > a single D&D motor and a single AGM battery for the show car as seen
> > moving in the third video.
>
> The pic is even mentioned on GM's site:
> http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/03/22/whats-under-the-volts-hood/
This is not a GM site. This is a Volt fansite. The info on this site
is by no means official by GM.
-kert
------------------------------
Message: 35
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 02:29:46 -0800
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Under the hood of the Volt
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes";
format="flowed"
>> The pic is even mentioned on GM's site:
>> http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/03/22/whats-under-the-volts-hood/
>
> This is not a GM site. This is a Volt fansite. The info on this site
> is by no means official by GM.
>
> -kert
Even better! GM supplies more BS than truth.
------------------------------
Message: 36
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 23:07:10 -0500
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] A123 power tools
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
On 24 Nov 2007 at 16:49, Shawn Rutledge wrote:
> VPX packs seem to have a rating of 1100 AH
Over a thousand amp hours??? Are you sure that's not 1100 MILLI-Amp hours
(mAh)?
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator
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End of EV Digest, Vol 4, Issue 69
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