EV Digest 2376
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Same size more amps.
by "Scott Hull" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Optima batteries - acceptable temperature range
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) What kind of Hair Dryer for DC Defrost/Heat..
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) Re: Optima batteries - acceptable temperature range
by "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Optima batteries - acceptable temperature range
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Optima batteries - acceptable temperature range
by "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Optima batteries - acceptable temperature range
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: E-Meter problems?
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: What kind of Hair Dryer for DC Defrost/Heat..
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) For Sale at any Price?...NOT!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Aspire runs.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: What kind of Hair Dryer for DC Defrost/Heat..
by "Vince" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: For Sale at any Price?...NOT!- Trick and treating
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Ceramic heating element
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: What kind of Hair Dryer for DC Defrost/Heat..
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Ceramic heating element
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Ceramic heating element
by "Vince" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: What kind of Hair Dryer for DC Defrost/Heat..
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Ceramic heating element
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: registering a conversion as an EV
by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: For Sale at any Price?...NOT!
by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Ceramic heating element efficiency
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: For Sale at any Price?...NOT!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: What kind of Hair Dryer for DC Defrost/Heat..
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: What kind of Hair Dryer for DC Defrost/Heat..
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: What kind of Hair Dryer for DC Defrost/Heat..
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>I am going for cycle life. I might go 20 miles round trip. I have heard
>the T-105s have the best cycle life. Do some of the lighter US batteries
>rival the Trojans in cycle life? Lawrence Rhodes...
In my experience, the T105 gives the most miles for the money. But maybe not
as much as indicated by the cycle life and definitely not in every
situation. A set of T145s will probably outlast a set of T105 because even
with fewer cycles, the T145 will get you more total miles than the T105. And
the T145 will give the added benefit of less frequent charging and greater
range. The T105 also cannot sustain high current as well. That said - I
would still get the T105s. I have had some experience with US 2200 batteries
and it was favorable with the exception of the speed caps which tended to
leak more than the individual caps on the Trojans. I can't speak for the
cycle life, but they seemed to have slightly higher capacity than the Trojan
T105s.
Scott Hull
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the correction Victor.
So, your standard operating temp is 30'C. What would you consider a high
side limit? When might a YT experience thermal runaway? 40'C? 50'C?
-Ed T
-----Original Message-----
From: Victor Tikhonov [mailto:vtikhono@;lsil.com]
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 1:23 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Optima batteries - acceptable temperature range
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Just reviewing the battery temperature range for Optimas, because if too
hot
> they vent (lose moisture) and too cold they cannot deliver full capacity.
>
> According to specs:
> BCI is based on 80 degrees F (26.7 degrees C)
> BCI = 120 minute at 25a discharge,to 10.5v cut-off
>
> Victor's controls try to keep batteries no less than 20 degree C (= 68.0
> degree F)
Ed,
If you're talking about me, my pack is kept at 30'C (86'F).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It is getting cold up in CT and my wife wants heat.. When I got the blazer
it was missing everything under the hood for the ac/heater including the
blower motor and vents. I found the vacuum for the switches also leaks
horribly and much of the under dash pieces are broken and or missing. So
fixing what is going to take a lot of time if I use the proper parts.
I recall reading of people using Hair Dryers and was wondering what kind you
could use?
Is there anything special to look for like one with no added features?
I already have the switch and relay wired to proper rated equipment so I
don't have to worry about the AC rated switch on the hair dryer. Also I
currently have 144vdc and will have 156vdc soon. Is it possible to run two
dryers in series so it's safer or lasts longer, or does it matter?
If anyone has any alternate suggestions that would work better/safer please
let me know.
Mark Hastings
'83 S-10 EV Blazer
www.geocities.com/evblazer
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can anyone understand and explain what may happen when
the several batteries in a set are at different temperatures?
This happens because some in a set are surrounded by other
batteries which helps keep them warm. Also some have
more air circulation around them than others. I've wondered if
this isn't part of the cause of problems Sparrow owners have with
their Optimas.
Tom Shay
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 9:59 AM
Subject: Optima batteries - acceptable temperature range
> Just reviewing the battery temperature range for Optimas, because if too
hot
> they vent (lose moisture) and too cold they cannot deliver full capacity.
>
> According to specs:
> BCI is based on 80 degrees F (26.7 degrees C)
> BCI = 120 minute at 25a discharge,to 10.5v cut-off
>
> Victor's controls try to keep batteries no less than 20 degree C (= 68.0
> degree F)
>
> For charging:
> Series String base on <125 degrees F (51.7 degrees C)
> Series String = 14.7v (max individual voltage < 15.6v)
>
> What is the percentage performance with batteries get cold?
> How about the (apparent) increase in performance when batteries get warm?
>
> Trying to do some planning for the coming cold weather.
>
> BR,
> Ed Thorpe
> Sparrow getting a replacement pack
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ed,
Never tested it, but performance at 30'C is good enough, so raising
temp will not improve it as much as would shorten the pack life.
I read somewhere that 25...30'C range is "best" balance between
performance and capacity. I took a word for it. Definition of
"best" is also arbitrary. Well, So far, so good.
Some of my Optimas now seem to have reversed cells for totally
unrelated reasons, but the good ones I have no complains about.
Victor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Thanks for the correction Victor.
> So, your standard operating temp is 30'C. What would you consider a high
> side limit? When might a YT experience thermal runaway? 40'C? 50'C?
>
> -Ed T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Victor Tikhonov [mailto:vtikhono@;lsil.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 1:23 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Optima batteries - acceptable temperature range
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > Just reviewing the battery temperature range for Optimas, because if too
> hot
> > they vent (lose moisture) and too cold they cannot deliver full capacity.
> >
> > According to specs:
> > BCI is based on 80 degrees F (26.7 degrees C)
> > BCI = 120 minute at 25a discharge,to 10.5v cut-off
> >
> > Victor's controls try to keep batteries no less than 20 degree C (= 68.0
> > degree F)
>
> Ed,
>
> If you're talking about me, my pack is kept at 30'C (86'F).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: Optima batteries - acceptable temperature range
> If you're talking about me, my pack is kept at 30'C (86'F).
Victor, how do you keep temperature at 30 degree C? How
close to 30 are the pack and the individual batteries maintained?
Tom Shay
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Similar effect as different capacity batteries connected in series -
the lowest capacity one determines total pack capacity (as discharges
to lowest DOD first).
Victor
Thomas Shay wrote:
>
> Can anyone understand and explain what may happen when
> the several batteries in a set are at different temperatures?
> This happens because some in a set are surrounded by other
> batteries which helps keep them warm. Also some have
> more air circulation around them than others. I've wondered if
> this isn't part of the cause of problems Sparrow owners have with
> their Optimas.
>
> Tom Shay
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:03 AM 10/21/2002 -0700, 1sclunn stated:
I have 2 e-meters (not links) that need repair . Where do I call or e-mail
I would consider trading one for a small pile of IGBT's (with smoke still
inside).
Well, you can contact Xantrex at: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:Cougar@;CasaDelGato.Com
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> It is getting cold up in CT and my wife wants heat.. When I got the blazer
> it was missing everything under the hood for the ac/heater including the
> blower motor and vents. ...
> I recall reading of people using Hair Dryers and was wondering what kind you
> could use?
Using a hair dryer works, but it's pretty noisy and crude. If you want a cheap but
still
effective heater, why not use a ceramic element or two? I found a ceramic type heater
at
Home Depot for just $9 and some change, so you could get two of them for under $20! You
could disconnect the wires from the AC fan motors, and separately wire them to a $49
12VDC-120VAC inverter, and have 3kw of instant, very quiet heat. This is enough heat to
roast you out of the cab and make you switch one of them off and just run one once the
cab
is warmed up. You could also remove the $9 heater's AC fan motors and get a few surplus
type 12V BDC fans for about $5 each.
Of course, the best way, is to get to a wrecking yard and find the stock factory blower
and duct work, then install the twin ceramic elements where the original heater core
was,
so you could have full control over dash vent, defroster vent, or floor vent heated
air.
If this doesn't sound right for you and you still want to go the hair dryer route,
you'll
need to pick one that has a brushed PM type motor. These are usually the noisiest, as
the
tiny motor spins really high RPM. You can tell which hair dryer has this kind of motor,
because you can look into it and see the small diodes that make DC for the motor, and
these of course, will simply pass your EV's battery juice through to the motor. Some of
the more expensive and usually quieter hairdryers have true AC motors to run the fan,
and
you'll want to avoid this type for the 'quick and cheap' duty as the heater for use in
the
EV.
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
1sclunn wrote:
> I would like to see all EV's in the album for sale. I know that somebody
> who puts 500 to 1000 hours into there EV doesn't want to sell it for the
> price of the parts but by putting the price that they would be happy with
> say 40k or what ever, they will help other people trying to sell there EV's.
While I agree with your concept here, I do not agree that this is a good idea for
'everybody'. Using my favorite car that I own, 'Blue Meanie' as an example....
Putting a price on it, as in placing it available for sale, implies that I am willing
to
let it go for the right price, that I am perhaps wishing for a better EV, or that it's
not
the pinnacle of design (at least in my eyes), and I think it sends the wrong message.
Though some may question why anyone would
have the fanatical love affair that I have for this now 30 year old economy car ('72
Datsun 1200 sedan), it is nonetheless there, and I would never want anyone to think I'd
consider selling this car....not for sale!
The era of the early 70's classically styled, clean-looking, tough and sturdy, easily
hopped-up, back yard racer, street tough Datsuns was perfect timing for the young
Wayland
car nut emerging from high school in '69. I don't just miss that era now, as do some
old
dudes who harken back to the good 'ol days of oldy-moldy music...I missed it
immediately
when I was still in my early 20's, back when Nissan in one of automotive-dom's
stupidest
moves, went away from their square-shouldered best-selling Datsun 510's, the light and
fun
Datsun 1200's, and the rough-riding but oh-so-heavy duty Datsun 520 minitrucks in the
mid
70's, and instead, brought out boring, nondescript vehicles that lacked all of the
aforementioned excitement. The early 80's brought us more boring, nondescript vehicles
that in another blunder by Nissan, wore that same corporate nameplate and lacked the
name
of character 'Datsun'. Yes, I miss the Datsun era...it's one that evidently, Nissan
finally admits to missing, too, as they are now capitalizing on the glory 'Datsun'
days of
the early 70's period in all of their recent commercials, fondly showing the original Z
Cars, and Datsun 510's tearing up the race tracks! Nissan seems to be trying to win
back
the hearts of Datsun fanatics with their hot Altima (0-60 in nearly 6 seconds flat)
series, and now, their new Z Car....too bad they can't swallow their pride and call
them
Datsuns again! It's also too bad they let Honda take and simply run away with the
market
that Datsun established long ago...that boy racer, affordable and fun pocket rocket
car...you can see the enthusiasm in today's youth as the 'tuner cars' of the hot import
scene are where it's at.
Fortunately for me, before they all disappeared, I was able to get a couple of clean
1200
sedans, and I've held on to them ever since. I never want to sell my beloved 1200 (Blue
Meanie), I never want to see it harmed in any way, and I never lust over another's EV
conversion. I've had this cool, fast, and fun EV for many years now, but each time the
garage door lifts open to reveal it waiting for me...even as it sits next to a modern
machine like my immaculate Honda Insight, my heart still pounds with the excitement
that
only a cherry condition, 135 HP, 250 ft. lbs. of torque, 300 watt stereoized, violet
pearl
over royal blue tricked out electric Datsun 1200 can bring to me. When I go overboard
and
have this desire in excess, I've got that 'other' 1200 to play with, too.
> If your pet project sold you would have some real money to get better parts
> and make even a nicer car....
For me, that's not an issue...I already have that 'better car'. Recent improvements
have
made it even better, too.
For those who've had recent test rides in this car, you'll like what I've done. Gone is
the slipping clutch (too many burnoffs in 3rd from a dead stop, I guess), that I had to
make excuses for...replaced with none other than the famous 'It Vil Not Schlipp!' full
blown racing clutch that was responsible for ripping off the input shaft of White
Zombie's
former 5 speed tranny. Yes, a few weeks ago I finally did it, and I did it right. The
Meanie's lightened flywheel was remachined, and a new competition type, but more
streetable than the Zombie's solid copper three prong job, clutch disc was installed,
along with that killer 'It Vil Not Schlipp!' pressure plate. Of course, a new pilot
bushing and a fresh throw-out bearing were included, too. On the 1-10 fun factor, it's
back at a solid '10', as the car now blisters its rear tires at the slightest
provocation.
Taking off in 2nd gear while mashing down the 'GO pedal' has the 1000 amp Emeter
pegged as
the tires instantly erupt in white smoke that pours out of the fender
wells...immature?...maybe, but gawd, what fun! I came around a corner yesterday, going
perhaps 10 mph in 3rd gear, and decided to wake up Mr. Raptor 1200...the car fishtailed
and smoked the tires for about a block...banging 4th gear, the car squatted as the 156V
pack of Optimas (now 5 years old) sagged to about 125 volts but delivered 1000+ amps,
and
the car simply accelerated HARD! It's pretty amazing how much power an ADC 9 inch motor
can make, and this much power in a light weight car like a Datsun 1200 sedan, is pure
FUN!
Another really big improvement has been my rework of the under-hood area and the
inclusion
of the hopped-up PFC20, that killer Rudman charger! It's really perked up the Optimas
being able to hit them with 28+ amps while charging off 240vac. It's also very cool,
using
a simple twist lock-to-120 vac plug adapter pigtail, to also have the flexibility to
still
charge off any 120V outlet. I can now blast 9 miles to downtown Portland, and drive
with
full enthusiasm, knowing that at the downtown located EV charging station, I can plug
into
the NEMA 14-50 outlet, and jam 28+ amps into the pack and get filled back up in a
hurry.
I've got more improvements coming soon, so there's no reason to ever think of selling
this
long time EV friend.
See Ya........John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Got it registered. Insured. Drove 10 miles and the 120v pack was down to
125 without spring back. I'm a little worried about the Delphis. The pack
seems to be sagging a bit too far. I did get it up to 55 on the freeway but
I don't know how long I could keep that up. I'll know better when I have
the ampmeter installed. Lawrence Rhodes....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark wrote:
> I recall reading of people using Hair Dryers and was wondering what
> kind you could use? Is there anything special to look for like one with
> no added features? I already have the switch and relay wired to proper
> rated equipment so I don't have to worry about the AC rated switch on
> the hair dryer. Also I currently have 144vdc and will have 156vdc soon.
> Is it possible to run two dryers in series so it's safer or lasts
> longer, or does it matter? If anyone has any alternate suggestions that
> would work better/safer please let me know.
I don't know about better/safer, but I've used the guts of those little ceramic disk
heaters along with a Radio Shack temp module like
this as a controller:
http://support.radioshack.com/support_supplies/doc9/9755.htm
Vince
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John,
This sounds pretty cool, even cooler if you
post some picks on a website with descriptions
of your modifications. I know, time is limited, I
have the same problem. It would encourage many EV'rs
if they had some picks of that performance machine.
(This won't happen with picks of the TEVan!)
Although the TEVan is quite nice for throwing the kids
bikes in the back and taking them all to a nature trail
bike path for a nice geocaching ride. This inspires
some enviromental friendliness with the kids, but I'm
sure they would prefer the tire burning Datsun when they
are teen agers! Oh well, they will enjoy the 400Amp NiCd
powered Club Car in our hilly neighborhood for the trick
or treating experiance on a cold Ohio October night.
I guess walking would be more environmetally friendly,
but I don't like the cold. I guess a 600 amp control would
get us through the hood faster, but I don't think the
club car transaxle would like that much.
Rod
John Wayland wrote:
Hello to All,
1sclunn wrote:
I would like to see all EV's in the album for sale. I know that somebody
who puts 500 to 1000 hours into there EV doesn't want to sell it for the
price of the parts but by putting the price that they would be happy with
say 40k or what ever, they will help other people trying to sell there EV's.
While I agree with your concept here, I do not agree that this is a good idea for
'everybody'. Using my favorite car that I own, 'Blue Meanie' as an example....
Putting a price on it, as in placing it available for sale, implies that I am willing to
let it go for the right price, that I am perhaps wishing for a better EV, or that it's not
the pinnacle of design (at least in my eyes), and I think it sends the wrong message.
Though some may question why anyone would
have the fanatical love affair that I have for this now 30 year old economy car ('72
Datsun 1200 sedan), it is nonetheless there, and I would never want anyone to think I'd
consider selling this car....not for sale!
The era of the early 70's classically styled, clean-looking, tough and sturdy, easily
hopped-up, back yard racer, street tough Datsuns was perfect timing for the young Wayland
car nut emerging from high school in '69. I don't just miss that era now, as do some old
dudes who harken back to the good 'ol days of oldy-moldy music...I missed it immediately
when I was still in my early 20's, back when Nissan in one of automotive-dom's stupidest
moves, went away from their square-shouldered best-selling Datsun 510's, the light and fun
Datsun 1200's, and the rough-riding but oh-so-heavy duty Datsun 520 minitrucks in the mid
70's, and instead, brought out boring, nondescript vehicles that lacked all of the
aforementioned excitement. The early 80's brought us more boring, nondescript vehicles
that in another blunder by Nissan, wore that same corporate nameplate and lacked the name
of character 'Datsun'. Yes, I miss the Datsun era...it's one that evidently, Nissan
finally admits to missing, too, as they are now capitalizing on the glory 'Datsun' days of
the early 70's period in all of their recent commercials, fondly showing the original Z
Cars, and Datsun 510's tearing up the race tracks! Nissan seems to be trying to win back
the hearts of Datsun fanatics with their hot Altima (0-60 in nearly 6 seconds flat)
series, and now, their new Z Car....too bad they can't swallow their pride and call them
Datsuns again! It's also too bad they let Honda take and simply run away with the market
that Datsun established long ago...that boy racer, affordable and fun pocket rocket
car...you can see the enthusiasm in today's youth as the 'tuner cars' of the hot import
scene are where it's at.
Fortunately for me, before they all disappeared, I was able to get a couple of clean 1200
sedans, and I've held on to them ever since. I never want to sell my beloved 1200 (Blue
Meanie), I never want to see it harmed in any way, and I never lust over another's EV
conversion. I've had this cool, fast, and fun EV for many years now, but each time the
garage door lifts open to reveal it waiting for me...even as it sits next to a modern
machine like my immaculate Honda Insight, my heart still pounds with the excitement that
only a cherry condition, 135 HP, 250 ft. lbs. of torque, 300 watt stereoized, violet pearl
over royal blue tricked out electric Datsun 1200 can bring to me. When I go overboard and
have this desire in excess, I've got that 'other' 1200 to play with, too.
If your pet project sold you would have some real money to get better parts
and make even a nicer car....
For me, that's not an issue...I already have that 'better car'. Recent improvements have
made it even better, too.
For those who've had recent test rides in this car, you'll like what I've done. Gone is
the slipping clutch (too many burnoffs in 3rd from a dead stop, I guess), that I had to
make excuses for...replaced with none other than the famous 'It Vil Not Schlipp!' full
blown racing clutch that was responsible for ripping off the input shaft of White Zombie's
former 5 speed tranny. Yes, a few weeks ago I finally did it, and I did it right. The
Meanie's lightened flywheel was remachined, and a new competition type, but more
streetable than the Zombie's solid copper three prong job, clutch disc was installed,
along with that killer 'It Vil Not Schlipp!' pressure plate. Of course, a new pilot
bushing and a fresh throw-out bearing were included, too. On the 1-10 fun factor, it's
back at a solid '10', as the car now blisters its rear tires at the slightest provocation.
Taking off in 2nd gear while mashing down the 'GO pedal' has the 1000 amp Emeter pegged as
the tires instantly erupt in white smoke that pours out of the fender
wells...immature?...maybe, but gawd, what fun! I came around a corner yesterday, going
perhaps 10 mph in 3rd gear, and decided to wake up Mr. Raptor 1200...the car fishtailed
and smoked the tires for about a block...banging 4th gear, the car squatted as the 156V
pack of Optimas (now 5 years old) sagged to about 125 volts but delivered 1000+ amps, and
the car simply accelerated HARD! It's pretty amazing how much power an ADC 9 inch motor
can make, and this much power in a light weight car like a Datsun 1200 sedan, is pure FUN!
Another really big improvement has been my rework of the under-hood area and the inclusion
of the hopped-up PFC20, that killer Rudman charger! It's really perked up the Optimas
being able to hit them with 28+ amps while charging off 240vac. It's also very cool, using
a simple twist lock-to-120 vac plug adapter pigtail, to also have the flexibility to still
charge off any 120V outlet. I can now blast 9 miles to downtown Portland, and drive with
full enthusiasm, knowing that at the downtown located EV charging station, I can plug into
the NEMA 14-50 outlet, and jam 28+ amps into the pack and get filled back up in a hurry.
I've got more improvements coming soon, so there's no reason to ever think of selling this
long time EV friend.
See Ya........John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
List,
Can someone please point me to the source of the ceramic heating
elements (or consumer products elements are pulled from) people use
for EV heaters? Is it common thing you buy in K-mart or home depot
or is it special item/special store?
Thanks in advance,
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A sweeper motor has universal AC. That is it can run
fine on DC as well, 180VDC or less. Rig one of these up
with a ceramic heater to get air flowing real fast.
The TEVan has a bunch of PTC resistors AKA close to ceramic
heaters with a strong blower.
John Wayland wrote:
Hello to All,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It is getting cold up in CT and my wife wants heat.. When I got the blazer
it was missing everything under the hood for the ac/heater including the
blower motor and vents. ...
I recall reading of people using Hair Dryers and was wondering what kind you
could use?
Using a hair dryer works, but it's pretty noisy and crude. If you want a cheap but still
effective heater, why not use a ceramic element or two? I found a ceramic type heater at
Home Depot for just $9 and some change, so you could get two of them for under $20! You
could disconnect the wires from the AC fan motors, and separately wire them to a $49
12VDC-120VAC inverter, and have 3kw of instant, very quiet heat. This is enough heat to
roast you out of the cab and make you switch one of them off and just run one once the cab
is warmed up. You could also remove the $9 heater's AC fan motors and get a few surplus
type 12V BDC fans for about $5 each.
Of course, the best way, is to get to a wrecking yard and find the stock factory blower
and duct work, then install the twin ceramic elements where the original heater core was,
so you could have full control over dash vent, defroster vent, or floor vent heated air.
If this doesn't sound right for you and you still want to go the hair dryer route, you'll
need to pick one that has a brushed PM type motor. These are usually the noisiest, as the
tiny motor spins really high RPM. You can tell which hair dryer has this kind of motor,
because you can look into it and see the small diodes that make DC for the motor, and
these of course, will simply pass your EV's battery juice through to the motor. Some of
the more expensive and usually quieter hairdryers have true AC motors to run the fan, and
you'll want to avoid this type for the 'quick and cheap' duty as the heater for use in the
EV.
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> List,
>
> Can someone please point me to the source of the ceramic heating
> elements (or consumer products elements are pulled from) people use
> for EV heaters?
The best ones for use in EV heaters that I've found, come from Randy Holmquist at
Canadian
EV. Cheaper versions of them are in those inexpensive, usually square-shaped heaters
you
can get at hardware stores and as I said in my earlier post, at Home Depot for about
$10.
> Is it common thing you buy in K-mart or home depot
> or is it special item/special store?
Yes, they are very common and are usually badged with something about it being a
ceramic
heater. The element itself is about 4 X 5 inches and has a fine mesh look to it. much
like
a miniature car radiator. One will give 'OK' heat that will do fine, but two of these
puppies can really crank out some serious heat, very close to the effect of a modern
warmed liquid car heater. I used twin elements in Red Beastie's heater, and it was
pretty
much like the factory heater that came with the truck, only of course, it was
instant-on
:-)
See Ya......John Wayland
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Victor wrote:
> Can someone please point me to the source of the ceramic heating
> elements (or consumer products elements are pulled from) people use
> for EV heaters? Is it common thing you buy in K-mart or home depot or
> is it special item/special store?
I picked some up at the close-out resellers, like Big Lots, Mark's, etc.
Vince
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You'd be better off going to Wal-mart, etc. and picking up one of those
ceramic cube heaters that are about 6" cubed. Repalce the muffin fan
with a 12V DC muffin fan and voila'. That's what I use in my truck and
I can feel the heat from it by the time I've gone 100 yards.
If your fan fails with the ceramic cube, it's less likely to melt things
(they are self regulating). Just be really careful of the connections
to the heating element, they can be fragile. If you want to get really
fancy you can wire up the thermostat that comes with it to a contactor
to control the element and get climate control.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It is getting cold up in CT and my wife wants heat.. When I got the
blazer it was missing everything under the hood for the ac/heater
including the blower motor and vents. I found the vacuum for the
switches also leaks horribly and much of the under dash pieces are
broken and or missing. So fixing what is going to take a lot of time
if I use the proper parts.
I recall reading of people using Hair Dryers and was wondering what
kind you could use?
Is there anything special to look for like one with no added features?
I already have the switch and relay wired to proper rated equipment so
I don't have to worry about the AC rated switch on the hair dryer.
Also I currently have 144vdc and will have 156vdc soon. Is it possible
to run two dryers in series so it's safer or lasts longer, or does it
matter?
If anyone has any alternate suggestions that would work better/safer
please let me know.
Mark Hastings
'83 S-10 EV Blazer
www.geocities.com/evblazer
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--- Begin Message ---
Yes, they are very common and are usually badged with something about it being a ceramic
heater. The element itself is about 4 X 5 inches and has a fine mesh look to it. much like
a miniature car radiator. One will give 'OK' heat that will do fine, but two of these
puppies can really crank out some serious heat, very close to the effect of a modern
warmed liquid car heater. I used twin elements in Red Beastie's heater, and it was pretty
much like the factory heater that came with the truck, only of course, it was instant-on
:-)
For those of us who live in the warm climes (normal daytime temperatures
above freezing..mostly) a single element will roast you out of a single
cab pickup in about 5 minutes.
YMMV
P.S. My truck only had the windsheild defroster ductwork left. I've
been thinking about adding something to redirect the heat down (after
the windshield is melted) since I tend to end up with a hot head and
cold feet (let the jokes begin.)
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Well, when I got the notice for registration that said I had to have a
smog exam for my EV it mattered....
I had to go through the certification process again at the DMV to get that
straight.
Michael B.
Well, that is the only reason my '81 VW Pickup has been changed to
fuel type "E". It seems that I couldn't pass my smog test without a
tailpipe! Now I no longer get the "smog test required" reminder to
register, so I can just mail in my $50 a year (actually, its $80 as
custom plates add $30 a year).
My Buggy is still listed as fuel type "G" (gas), but its to old for
smog tests. Anyway, last year I got tired of annual tabs for it (at
$80 a year as it had custom plates too), and so registered it as a
collectors vehicle ($50 one time permanent registration, must be 25
years old or older, and there is driving limits of being within 10
miles of home or on a parade or show run - works great with a 20 mile
range).
Neon
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John wrote:
While I agree with your concept here, I do not agree that this is a
good idea for
'everybody'. Using my favorite car that I own, 'Blue Meanie' as an example....
Putting a price on it, as in placing it available for sale, implies
that I am willing to
let it go for the right price, that I am perhaps wishing for a
better EV, or that it's not
the pinnacle of design (at least in my eyes), and I think it sends
the wrong message.
Though some may question why anyone would
have the fanatical love affair that I have for this now 30 year old
economy car ('72
Datsun 1200 sedan), it is nonetheless there, and I would never want
anyone to think I'd
consider selling this car....not for sale!
Its really a nice car John. But come on, the one that's NOT for sale
is something even more one-of-a-kind. My glowing EV Beach Buggy (it
needs a name). I have yet to identify the body maker, but its has
lines even better than a "real" Manx. Of course it goes (quietly),
glows (loudly), and I don't even have to pay for tabs anymore! It can
be seen at <http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/125.html>, or in some
OEVA "awareness day 2002" photos <http://www.oeva.org>, or at Geoff's
personal web sight <http://homepage.mac.com/geoffshepherd>. I'm
sorry, but its all MINE.
Like your beautiful Blue Meanie the Buggy has seen some upgrades too.
I haven't had as much time, and have more in store for it. More
purple, more glowing neon, frame upgrades, powercoating the frame,
more chrome, more power (I need to bring the wheelstands back), more
refinement, and always keeping the simple look and feel (and
reality). I've even been thinking about a good sound system (a head
unit would fill the one spot still available in the tiny dash.
Sell my buggy? I'd rather loose my right nut!
Neon
P.S. - where is that picture of you standing in front of the Blue
Meanie with lightning bolts coming out of your hands?
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Can one estimate how efficient ceramic heaters are in terms of
converting electric watts into Joules (sorry, BTUs)?
I want to know if I get, say 100V 5A ceramic heater(s) in the place
of former heater core and blow an air through it, will I get
more/equal/less heat than if I get 100V 5A water heater, immerse it
in a small water tank circulating hot water through the stock core,
and blow equal amount of air through that core?
I'm talking about battery energy wastefulness of each alternative,
not simplicity or the cost of components. Any other technical
(not practical or economical at this point) cons/pros of each method?
Any info/data, anybody?
Just saying that you install one and it's working fine is not exactly
"data" and won't help to compare.
Thank you all,
Victor
John Wayland wrote:
>
> Hello to All,
>
> Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>
> > List,
> >
> > Can someone please point me to the source of the ceramic heating
> > elements (or consumer products elements are pulled from) people use
> > for EV heaters?
>
> The best ones for use in EV heaters that I've found, come from Randy Holmquist at
>Canadian
> EV. Cheaper versions of them are in those inexpensive, usually square-shaped heaters
>you
> can get at hardware stores and as I said in my earlier post, at Home Depot for about
>$10.
>
> > Is it common thing you buy in K-mart or home depot
> > or is it special item/special store?
>
> Yes, they are very common and are usually badged with something about it being a
>ceramic
> heater. The element itself is about 4 X 5 inches and has a fine mesh look to it.
>much like
> a miniature car radiator. One will give 'OK' heat that will do fine, but two of these
> puppies can really crank out some serious heat, very close to the effect of a modern
> warmed liquid car heater. I used twin elements in Red Beastie's heater, and it was
>pretty
> much like the factory heater that came with the truck, only of course, it was
>instant-on
> :-)
>
> See Ya......John Wayland
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Paul G wrote:
> Its really a nice car John. But come on, the one that's NOT for sale
> is something even more one-of-a-kind. My glowing EV Beach Buggy ...has
> lines even better than a "real" Manx....Sell my buggy? I'd rather loose my right nut!
>
> Neon
This is great to hear others that are in love with a classic type of conversion and who
won't sell! I agree with you Paul, keep that gem!
>
> P.S. - where is that picture of you standing in front of the Blue
> Meanie with lightning bolts coming out of your hands?
Two ways to see it...find a used copy of the March '95 issue of 'Car Audio and
Electronics' magazine and check out the main feature story on the world's first
electric
soundoff car (fat chance on finding one other than a few I saved at my place), or,
simply
go to Mike Chancey's EV Photo Album and peruse the 'Datsun' section. We did that photo
shoot 'inside' the North Power House of Bonneville Dam on the mighty Columbia River,
and
you can see the bank of 66.5 megawatt generators lined up behind Blue Meanie...what a
great backdrop for a picture of an electric car!
See Ya.........John Wayland
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--- Begin Message ---
John Wayland wrote:
> Using a hair dryer works, but it's pretty noisy and crude. If you want
> a cheap but still effective heater, why not use a ceramic element or
> two? I found a ceramic type heater at Home Depot for just $9...
Be aware that you get what you pay for! Many of these el-cheapo heaters
are truly junk, if not outright dangerous. They claim "ceramic" but
often aren't. The UL markings are forgeries. Half the safety controls
that are supposed to be there are missing. Is is really worth risking
your car / house / life on a $9 heater?
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Then, I got to ask exact same question again - what is the source
of real ceramic heaters or elements, not the $9 ones John mentioned?
Victor
Lee Hart wrote:
>
> John Wayland wrote:
> > Using a hair dryer works, but it's pretty noisy and crude. If you want
> > a cheap but still effective heater, why not use a ceramic element or
> > two? I found a ceramic type heater at Home Depot for just $9...
>
> Be aware that you get what you pay for! Many of these el-cheapo heaters
> are truly junk, if not outright dangerous. They claim "ceramic" but
> often aren't. The UL markings are forgeries. Half the safety controls
> that are supposed to be there are missing. Is is really worth risking
> your car / house / life on a $9 heater?
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> It is getting cold up in CT and my wife wants heat.. When I got the blazer
> it was missing everything under the hood for the ac/heater including the
> blower motor and vents. I found the vacuum for the switches also leaks
> horribly and much of the under dash pieces are broken and or missing. So
> fixing what is going to take a lot of time if I use the proper parts.
> I recall reading of people using Hair Dryers and was wondering what kind you
> could use?
> Is there anything special to look for like one with no added features?
> I already have the switch and relay wired to proper rated equipment so I
> don't have to worry about the AC rated switch on the hair dryer. Also I
> currently have 144vdc and will have 156vdc soon. Is it possible to run two
> dryers in series so it's safer or lasts longer, or does it matter?
> If anyone has any alternate suggestions that would work better/safer please
> let me know.
>
> Mark Hastings
> '83 S-10 EV Blazer
> www.geocities.com/evblazer
Hey folks lets not forget to use the Ceramic heater elements in our
heater for Deforst and air. They are so much safer than Nichrome metal
wire elements. They don't runaway, and melt on you, just get hot, and no
hotter.
Also they go for about $20 wrapped in a nice heater from Home DePot.
Nice cheap But yes keep a eye on the DC switches that you will need.
Most hair dryers are Nichrome, and make WAY too much noise, and the
blowers are.....rather inefficient.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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