EV Digest 2389
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Is it worth replacing bad batteries?
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Cheap LCD Voltmeters?
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Rudman reg madness
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Is it worth replacing bad batteries?
by "Mark Hastings" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Load tester for 6,8 &12 volt use.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Rudmann MkI mod
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Cheap LCD Voltmeters?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) OEVA November meeting moved
by "Gary Graunke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Load tester for 6,8 &12 volt use.
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Rudmann MkI mod
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Rudman reg madness
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Is it worth replacing bad batteries?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) Re:Regulator madness
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: A plan
by "Walker, Lesley R" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) My next EV
by michael bearden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Small Controller
by "Richard Furniss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Cheap LCD Voltmeters?
by michael bearden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Cheap LCD Voltmeters?
by "Christopher Meier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Small Controller
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Cheap LCD Voltmeters?
by Michael Haseltine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Cheap LCD Voltmeters?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re:Regulator madness
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) OT: Battery Cell Photography (WAS Re: Battery growth from abuse?)
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: My next EV
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Small Controller
by "Richard Furniss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) clean up that EV
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) PFC-20 & PFC-50 work on public AVCON chargers
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Hastings wrote:
> 16 of my batteries were at 8.22-8.24 and the other two were
> ~2 and ~5 volts.
> Would it be worth if for nothing more then trying it out to get
> some new batteries to replace the bad ones and see if I can
> stretch it a few dozen cycles? It only needs a 15 mile good
> range until summer when I can take the plunge into a new set.
Wow - your pack and mine are at just about the same point, although your
good batteries are much better balanced than my 'good' ones. How old is
your pack? If you look inside the cells, do you see moss growing?
I replaced my two bad ones with used ones I had saved as the best from
the first set (and didn't do maintenance charges on like I should have).
My range is back up to 20 miles, and I'm hoping that with some exercise
that may go up some.
I wouldn't buy new ones to stick in now (unless the rest of the pack was
almost new). Used 8-volters are hard to come by, but maybe could ask
around golf cart places in your area? Or stick in a couple of used
6-volters just to get it going, which is a little odd but would probably
have more capacity than the rest of your pack so should work. If you
have a non-adjustable charger, maybe stick in a stack of 5-6 diodes to
make up for the difference in voltage?
Or as Joe said, if your charger can be adjusted just take out the two
batteries.
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S-10
1970s Elec-Trak E20
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:28 AM 10/25/2002 -0700, Roy LeMeur wrote:
In the interim, he wants to have an array of 24 small LCD voltmeters to
monitor each battery.
Does anyone know where would be the best place to purchase something like
this at a very reasonable price? It seems like these would be commonly
available in a 12V version.
I think that Marlin P Jones, and/or MECI have some. Probably cost around
$5-$10 each though...
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:Cougar@;CasaDelGato.Com
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:15 PM 10/25/2002 -0700, Joe Smalley wrote:
Do you have 12 or 5 volt fans?
12v.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:Cougar@;CasaDelGato.Com
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah I really wish I had a nice adjustable charger. Right now I have a
NG3 that just charges away. My pack has about 5000miles on it in a blazer.
Average trip of 15 miles per charge. The diode thing sounds promising but I
wouldn't where to put it or what to use. I know how on small things but a 15
amps at 180+ peak charging volts is a little different then R/C car size
stuff. I'd guess I'd have to drop 16-18 volts to trick it and have diodes
that could take 15+ amps on one of the charger lines?
I went out and took a look at the cells and I don't seem to have
anything growing between/above the plates. but there looks like what looks
like a sleave of white sand in between every other plate? It starts about
1/4 inch under the tops of the plates it seems identical in every cell all
along the plates. I tried taking a picture but my camera just wouldn't do it
after a few dozen tries. I know of a source or two of used batteries that
I'll check out but as for ease I think new batteries would be more time/cost
effective for me because everywhere is 2+ hours away where I can get
8volters.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Coate" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: Is it worth replacing bad batteries?
> Mark Hastings wrote:
> > 16 of my batteries were at 8.22-8.24 and the other two were
> > ~2 and ~5 volts.
> > Would it be worth if for nothing more then trying it out to get
> > some new batteries to replace the bad ones and see if I can
> > stretch it a few dozen cycles? It only needs a 15 mile good
> > range until summer when I can take the plunge into a new set.
>
> Wow - your pack and mine are at just about the same point, although your
> good batteries are much better balanced than my 'good' ones. How old is
> your pack? If you look inside the cells, do you see moss growing?
>
> I replaced my two bad ones with used ones I had saved as the best from
> the first set (and didn't do maintenance charges on like I should have).
> My range is back up to 20 miles, and I'm hoping that with some exercise
> that may go up some.
>
> I wouldn't buy new ones to stick in now (unless the rest of the pack was
> almost new). Used 8-volters are hard to come by, but maybe could ask
> around golf cart places in your area? Or stick in a couple of used
> 6-volters just to get it going, which is a little odd but would probably
> have more capacity than the rest of your pack so should work. If you
> have a non-adjustable charger, maybe stick in a stack of 5-6 diodes to
> make up for the difference in voltage?
>
> Or as Joe said, if your charger can be adjusted just take out the two
> batteries.
>
>
> _________
> Jim Coate
> 1992 Chevy S-10
> 1970s Elec-Trak E20
> http://www.eeevee.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the tip. I had a more radically bad battery. I found it by the
telltale sign of charging at 26v which the Rudmann couldn't stop and after
charging the pack I took the car up a hill from my house (so I could coast
home) the bad battery went down to 7v and the rest of the batteries stayed
up. I replaced it and the EV ran well and more normally with less sag. I
am still having trouble with the MK IIs not being able to handle enough
current. I have a bunch of MK 1s with external loads and I burnt one or two
of them already. I need to recofigure the voltage resistor to about 10.3v
from 9.6 Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: Load tester for 6,8 &12 volt use.
> A coat hanger with .093 wire will draw about 150 amps from a 12 volt
> battery, 100 amps from an 8 volt battery or 75 amps from a 6 volt battery.
> Parallel two or more to get more current.
>
> Connect the coat hanger to some 6 gage or larger jumper cables and
submerge
> the wire in water. Don't use a plastic bucket. The hot wire can make it
> leak.
>
> Connect your voltmeter to the battery terminals of the battery under test.
>
> Connect the jumper cables to the battery terminals.
>
> Wait for a fixed amount of time (your choice on how far you want to
> discharge the batteries) and read the final voltage.
>
> Disconnect the jumper cables from the battery.
>
> Record the voltage.
>
> The bad ones show up pretty quickly using this test.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 7:46 AM
> Subject: Load tester for 6,8 &12 volt use.
>
>
> > Can a load tester be made from a resistor, a light bulb and a multimeter
> or
> > some other trick method or do I have to go out and buy one. I need one
to
> > find the best batterys in my collection. I don't need exact values I
just
> > need to know which batteries are strongest. Lawrence Rhodes...
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a bunch of Mark 1s with external load. They seem to do a better job
of keeping the voltage than my Mk IIs but they have a too low threshold. I
need to change from 9.6 to 10.1 or maybe .2 or .3. I have the reg doc
somewhere. I need to find it. What is its name or could I download it
again. Can't seem to find it on the Manzanita website I remember I
downloaded it from somewhere else maybe or if it's simple enough maybe I
could just piggyback a resistor somewhere. Believe it or not the B & W
cranks out 20 amps and that is too much for the one or two batteries that
come up quicker. I had to turn the current down. Thanks for any info.
Lawrence Rhodes...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roy LeMeur wrote:
>> he wants to have an array of 24 small LCD voltmeters to monitor each
>> battery.
The cheap ones require a "floating" power supply (like a 9v battery)
that is not connected to the voltage being measured. Fixable with extra
parts, but then it's not cheap or simple solution any more.
The cheap ones also have poor internal voltage references; they drift
substantially with temperature. Again, you can fix this with a good
external reference, but for more money.
There are better quality digital meters, but they aren't cheap. Buying
them would cost as much or more than the Rudman regulators.
If it were me and I wanted a cheap solution, I'd get 24 little LED
bar-graph displays, and wire them as an expanded-scale voltmeter. For
example, Marlin P. Jones stock# 4210-RB, 7 LEDs, shows 12v battery
voltage in 0.25v, 0.5v, or 1v steps, $6.95 each (for 5 or more).
Or, get 24 edgewise panel meters, like Marlin P. Jones stock# 11354-ME,
1.5"w x0.75"h, 230ua full scale, $2.25 for 10 or more. Put a zener diode
and resistor in series, chosen to make an expanded scale voltmeter. The
meters can all be mounted in a row, so it is easy to see which is the
highest or lowest.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Due to a scheduling conflict with our meeting room, the OEVA will meet on
*WEDNESDAY*, November 13, rather than our regular 2nd Thursday of the month.
I'll send out the newsletter a bit earlier than usual next week, and send
email to those who are online. Please pass the word to those not on the
list.
Gary
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
To get the regulator to pass more current requires a physically larger heat
sink. If your application can handle a larger heat sink,install them and
then I will tell you how to increase the internal load current.
The internal load can handle about triple the stock programmed current, but
the heat sink won't dissipate the heat and the thermal cutout will turn off
the load leaving the battery unprotected. Bad news.
If you install larger heat sinks, you can program up the bypass current on
the internal load.
The Mk 1 regulators do not have a thermal cutout and do not have a
programmable current. The current is governed by the load resistor rating.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 10:48 AM
Subject: Re: Load tester for 6,8 &12 volt use.
> Thanks for the tip. I had a more radically bad battery. I found it by
the
> telltale sign of charging at 26v which the Rudmann couldn't stop and after
> charging the pack I took the car up a hill from my house (so I could coast
> home) the bad battery went down to 7v and the rest of the batteries stayed
> up. I replaced it and the EV ran well and more normally with less sag. I
> am still having trouble with the MK IIs not being able to handle enough
> current. I have a bunch of MK 1s with external loads and I burnt one or
two
> of them already. I need to recofigure the voltage resistor to about 10.3v
> from 9.6 Lawrence Rhodes....
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 9:25 PM
> Subject: Re: Load tester for 6,8 &12 volt use.
>
>
> > A coat hanger with .093 wire will draw about 150 amps from a 12 volt
> > battery, 100 amps from an 8 volt battery or 75 amps from a 6 volt
battery.
> > Parallel two or more to get more current.
> >
> > Connect the coat hanger to some 6 gage or larger jumper cables and
> submerge
> > the wire in water. Don't use a plastic bucket. The hot wire can make it
> > leak.
> >
> > Connect your voltmeter to the battery terminals of the battery under
test.
> >
> > Connect the jumper cables to the battery terminals.
> >
> > Wait for a fixed amount of time (your choice on how far you want to
> > discharge the batteries) and read the final voltage.
> >
> > Disconnect the jumper cables from the battery.
> >
> > Record the voltage.
> >
> > The bad ones show up pretty quickly using this test.
> >
> > Joe Smalley
> > Rural Kitsap County WA
> > Fiesta 48 volts
> > NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 7:46 AM
> > Subject: Load tester for 6,8 &12 volt use.
> >
> >
> > > Can a load tester be made from a resistor, a light bulb and a
multimeter
> > or
> > > some other trick method or do I have to go out and buy one. I need
one
> to
> > > find the best batterys in my collection. I don't need exact values I
> just
> > > need to know which batteries are strongest. Lawrence Rhodes...
> > >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Adjust the regulator set point by adjusting VR2.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 11:04 AM
Subject: Rudmann MkI mod
> I have a bunch of Mark 1s with external load. They seem to do a better
job
> of keeping the voltage than my Mk IIs but they have a too low threshold.
I
> need to change from 9.6 to 10.1 or maybe .2 or .3. I have the reg doc
> somewhere. I need to find it. What is its name or could I download it
> again. Can't seem to find it on the Manzanita website I remember I
> downloaded it from somewhere else maybe or if it's simple enough maybe I
> could just piggyback a resistor somewhere. Believe it or not the B & W
> cranks out 20 amps and that is too much for the one or two batteries that
> come up quicker. I had to turn the current down. Thanks for any info.
> Lawrence Rhodes...
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
To run CPU cooler fans from a Mk 2 regulator.
Use an emitter follower off U1pin 7.
Collector goes to +bat (J2).
Emitter goes to the red wire on the fan.
Black wire on the fan goes to -bat (J6).
Some fans will benefit if a capacitor is put across the fan leads.
There is a schematic at http://www.manzanitamicro.com/fan%20circuit.gif
The transistor not very critical. It must be an NPN that has a voltage
rating at least 20 volts and a current rating large enough to carry the fan
startup current. The dissipation rating should be at least 2 watts per amp
of fan current. If you have a 100 milliamp fan, the transistor needs to be
rated to dissipate 200 milliwatts.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 7:28 AM
Subject: Re: Rudman reg madness
> At 09:15 PM 10/25/2002 -0700, Joe Smalley wrote:
> >Do you have 12 or 5 volt fans?
>
> 12v.
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:Cougar@;CasaDelGato.Com
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 26/10/02 15:52:31 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
> Yeah I really wish I had a nice adjustable charger. Right now I have a
> NG3 that just charges away.
I'm working on it!
I have one NG3 in bits and another on its way to me for comparison. I hope to
start work on a new logic card soon. At the moment I'm working on the code
for my battery monitor. I swapped one for the NG3.
Paul Compton
BVS technical officer www.bvs.org.uk
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The R2 is pegged. I need to change the voltage of the regulator toward 12v.
What was the resistor to change from 8v to 12v? I have to modify that
slightly. Maybe by a piggy back or resistor change. I only need .5v more
range. Lawrence Rhodes....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Timothy Humphrey wrote:
> Two and a half years ago I owned an older
> Dodge,Plymouth,Mitsubishi Colt
> Vista Wagon.
Sounds like the vehicle that I know as a Mitsubishi Chariot, similar
to a Honda Shuttle. I've thought about one those, and wondered if
they would be easier to convert. Maybe the mounting points for the
extra rear seats would be good for bolting battery boxes onto and
that would save a bit of work.
> I actually thought about converting it. It got 30+mpg (U.S,
> measures).
[snip]
>
> I junked that car.
>
> I still do not drive an EV.
And you'll always be wondering whether you made the right choice,
and if you had chosen the other way you would also be wondering.
I hate that kind of choice.
> I should have listened to Lee Hart, paraphrased .....Stop
> Thinking and Start Doing!
Sound advice indeed. I'll try hard to take it.
--
Lesley Walker
Unix Engineering, EDS New Zealand
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"The secret to getting ahead is getting started. The secret to
getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks
into smaller manageable tasks, and simply starting on the
first one." --- Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Musing aloud (?) here on directions to go in my next EV...
I am looking at Kitcars, and the ones I am interested in are all VW
based. I know that there are often motor adaptors available because of
the great number of VW base EVs there are around. These adaptors are
typically for the Advanced DC motors, or the GE, etc.
I am just starting to really think about building an AC powered EV.
Thomas Cook told me about a Hughes system that he saw at an automotive
junkyard-obviously salvaged out of a wrecked vehicle, for about $200,
which got me started on thinking about it.
So here are some of my questions:
What are the great advantages to an AC system (I know that regenerative
braking, and better range are a couple of reasons)
What is the acceleration difference between AC and DC? ( I like
acceleration-I am not a tire spinner, but I like to get up to speed
quickly)
How much different is it (from a DC powered one) in building an EV?
(Like, do I need to start over in my learning and planning? Is my
experience in building EV's applicable?
Is the inverter also the controller, or how do the system layouts
differ?
What are the disadvantages for AC?
How much is the cost difference?
Thanks as always for any thoughts-especially those based on
experience...
Michael B.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All;
I need help finding a better way to power my aux motor that drives my
trans pump, I'm moving up to a 240v battery pack and the aux motor is rated
at 110v, up to now I used resistors to drop the voltage to about 80v at
about 5 amps to get the right amount of flow and pressure to the trans.
This sounds like a job for a IGBT, unless someone else has a simpler
solution? I would like to keep the same motor and not have a separate
battery pack for the aux motor, I would also like to be able to adjust it so
I can fine tune the flow and pressure.
The motor is a permanent magnet motor, run between 60v and 100v at less
than 10 amps running, I don't know what the starting current is but it is a
soft start (as in it doesn't peg my meter when I checked it across the
shunt) I have never had the motor labor to start, so far!.
www.lasvegasev.com
Richard Furniss
Las Vegas, NV
1986 Mazda EX-7 192v
1981 Lectra Centauri 108v
3 Wheel Trail Master 12v
Board Member, www.lveva.org
Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rudman reg question here.(Joe or Rich)...could these be run off of the
"sense" terminals on the Mk II's? This would give me a great monitor while
driving... Can you imagine trying to read 24 voltmeters while driving?
Michael B.
Lee Hart wrote:
If it were me and I wanted a cheap solution, I'd get 24 little LED
> bar-graph displays, and wire them as an expanded-scale voltmeter. For
> example, Marlin P. Jones stock# 4210-RB, 7 LEDs, shows 12v battery
> voltage in 0.25v, 0.5v, or 1v steps, $6.95 each (for 5 or more).
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about using 2 or 3 of Lee's Batt-Bridge indicators? The ones
that show an imbalance. Put one across the whole pack, tapped in the
center. Put a second one across your known worst battery and one
of it's neighbors. If you have a second worst battery that is also
nearly as bad as the worst one, use a third Batt-Bridge (I think that's
the name for them) over that battery and a neighboring one. Then,
if any of them light, back off! Pretty cheap and easy compared to
hooking up dozens of meters and trying to read them all while driving.
You want to *know* when a cell is dying, not spot it after it has
been that way when you we're able to look at *all* the meters.
-Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "michael bearden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: Cheap LCD Voltmeters?
> Rudman reg question here.(Joe or Rich)...could these be run off of the
> "sense" terminals on the Mk II's? This would give me a great monitor
while
> driving... Can you imagine trying to read 24 voltmeters while driving?
> Michael B.
>
> Lee Hart wrote:
> If it were me and I wanted a cheap solution, I'd get 24 little LED
>
> > bar-graph displays, and wire them as an expanded-scale voltmeter. For
> > example, Marlin P. Jones stock# 4210-RB, 7 LEDs, shows 12v battery
> > voltage in 0.25v, 0.5v, or 1v steps, $6.95 each (for 5 or more).
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I might try a different motor, or you could get that one rewound for
240V. Barring that, you might do something with high power DC-DCs, but
that's expensive. Or build a PWM circuit with an IGBT. But I think a
different/rewound motor might be a good place to start. 180V and 200+VDC
motors aren't that uncommon to find in surplus catalogs.
Seth
Richard Furniss wrote:
>
> Hi All;
>
> I need help finding a better way to power my aux motor that drives my
> trans pump, I'm moving up to a 240v battery pack and the aux motor is rated
> at 110v, up to now I used resistors to drop the voltage to about 80v at
> about 5 amps to get the right amount of flow and pressure to the trans.
>
> This sounds like a job for a IGBT, unless someone else has a simpler
> solution? I would like to keep the same motor and not have a separate
> battery pack for the aux motor, I would also like to be able to adjust it so
> I can fine tune the flow and pressure.
>
> The motor is a permanent magnet motor, run between 60v and 100v at less
> than 10 amps running, I don't know what the starting current is but it is a
> soft start (as in it doesn't peg my meter when I checked it across the
> shunt) I have never had the motor labor to start, so far!.
>
> www.lasvegasev.com
> Richard Furniss
> Las Vegas, NV
> 1986 Mazda EX-7 192v
> 1981 Lectra Centauri 108v
> 3 Wheel Trail Master 12v
> Board Member, www.lveva.org
> Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
--
vze3v25q@verizondotnet
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In the interim, he wants to have an array of 24 small LCD voltmeters
to monitor each battery.
Don't you need only 12?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Meier wrote:
>
> How about using 2 or 3 of Lee's Batt-Bridge indicators? The ones
> that show an imbalance. Put one across the whole pack, tapped in the
> center. Put a second one across your known worst battery and one
> of it's neighbors. If you have a second worst battery that is also
> nearly as bad as the worst one, use a third Batt-Bridge (I think that's
> the name for them) over that battery and a neighboring one. Then,
> if any of them light, back off!
For those who haven't seen this, my "Batt-Bridge" is a very simple
circuit to light an LED when a cell dies somewhere in the pack (i.e. one
battery in the pack is about 2v less than the rest). I have an article
on it to send to the EAA for "Current EVents" magazine.
Normally, a Batt-Bridge is just a "Check Battery" idiot light. But you
can add more than one of them to compare parts of the pack to any
desired degree, right down to each individual battery.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
VR1 sets the threshold voltage.
R2 is a fixed resistor whose value should be
((number of cells)-1)x(100k ohms)
R14 limits the volts per cell to 2.75 volts (as measured at TP2). This
should be enough unless something else in wrong in the circuit.
If does not adjust up high enough, you can bridge R14 (100K) with a zero ohm
resistor and the regulator will go up to 3.2 volts per cell. This is way too
much voltage so the top half of the pot will probably not get used.
If you only want to raise it to 3 volts per cell, then put one 100K across
R14.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 4:03 PM
Subject: Re:Regulator madness
> The R2 is pegged. I need to change the voltage of the regulator toward
12v.
> What was the resistor to change from 8v to 12v? I have to modify that
> slightly. Maybe by a piggy back or resistor change. I only need .5v more
> range. Lawrence Rhodes....
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim,
I printed out your cell images, and have been eyeing them for a
couple of days. I tried taking some pictures of the cells in my
first pack (US2300s) a few years ago without much success. Used
SLR and a light shined down the hole. No polarizer. I really
didn't get much discernable. It appears that you are getting
quite a bit of light from the sun in through the side of the
batteries, at least as much as through the filler holes.
Probably a polarizer would help to get rid of reflections off the
top of the electrolyte.
I'd really like to document the appearance of the plates and
separators in my pack, say every six months to a year. Maybe not
much spectacular would show, but at least I'd have images to post
on the wall and study over time ;-). I'm impressed with the
growth in the A picture - almost looks like worms sitting on top
of the plates and separators. My guess as to the type of battery
you have given the redness of the filler hole would be Trojan
T105, but I think I recall you saying your truck runs T145s. My
second pack is T125s, and I was struck with how wavy the
separators were in those batteries from Day 1, almost two years
ago now (although running in the EV for 1.5 years). I also
bought four spare T125s at the same time that have been cycled
lightly and have not seen EV duty yet. The lightly cycled
batteries clearly have less plate growth (they practically look
like new) than the ones in the car, where the plates (that I can
see) are a little larger and look somewhat spongy. But I think
your A battery takes the cake...
Thanks for the photos,
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: EV List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 8:25 PM
Subject: Battery growth from abuse?
>
> I'd like to say my batteries were growing in terms of capacity,
but...
> this pack seems to be on its way out. I've replaced the 2
stinkers with
> the better batteries saved from my last pack. Along the way I
got some
> pictures of what is happening inside:
>
> http://www.coate.org/jim/ev/archives/Cell_A300.jpg
> http://www.coate.org/jim/ev/archives/Cell_B300.jpg
>
> It seems that pretty much from the get go the plates are a
little wavy,
> then over time the crud starts forming between the plates
filling in the
> waves (as in the second picture) and continues to grow and grow
(as in
> the first picture).
>
> Is this the dreaded sulfation? From the appearance, any clues
as to
> chronic over-charging? Under-charging? Over-heating? Other
abuse? Or
> just plain age and use?
>
> PS the odd thin white curved piece hanging down from the left
is
> actually just a reflection in the top surface of the water. The
sun was
> low in the sky off to the right, coming in through the
translucent case.
>
> _________
> Jim Coate
> 1992 Chevy S-10
> 1970s Elec-Trak E20
> http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So here are some of my questions:
What are the great advantages to an AC system (I know that regenerative
braking, and better range are a couple of reasons)
What is the acceleration difference between AC and DC? ( I like
acceleration-I am not a tire spinner, but I like to get up to speed
quickly)
There is none specific to AC vs DC. Acceleration is all about power.
Compare the power of the specific systems you are looking at, the one
with more power will accelerate better.
How much different is it (from a DC powered one) in building an EV?
Different motor, different controller.
Other than that the chances are that the AC system will be a higher
voltage. Higher voltage requires components (contactors, fuses, DC-DC,
etc.) that can handle the higher voltage. You might get lucky and get
an AC system that has some of these components included with the controller.
(Like, do I need to start over in my learning and planning? Is my
experience in building EV's applicable?
Is the inverter also the controller, or how do the system layouts
differ?
Yes the inverter is typically the controller,
What are the disadvantages for AC?
Normally costs, and frequently the requirement for high voltage. Really
high voltage setups usually don't use flooded batteries (a 300V system
would require 50 ea. 6V GC batteries)
How much is the cost difference?
Typically the AC motor/controller are much more expensive. Though the
prices are coming down, AC is still about twice the price of DC. Plus
AC typically requires lots of smaller batteries that tend to be more
expensive per pound than big batteries.
However, if you are going to use a used/surplus AC system, you'll need
to figure up the costs in your situation to determined whether they are
higher or not.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Comments inserted
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: Small Controller
> I might try a different motor, or you could get that one rewound for
> 240V.
I didn't want to change the motor but this gave me another idea, if I got a
24v or 36v motor and used a separate battery pack, it would be light weight
and controllers are available, also a bonus would be when the main pack sags
the trans pump won't be affected.
Barring that, you might do something with high power DC-DCs, but
> that's expensive. Or build a PWM circuit with an IGBT.
This would be the simplest for me, I was hoping someone out there has
already been here and had a simple and elegant solution.
>
> Seth
>
>
> Richard Furniss wrote:
> >
> > Hi All;
> >
> > I need help finding a better way to power my aux motor that drives
my
> > trans pump, I'm moving up to a 240v battery pack and the aux motor is
rated
> > at 110v, up to now I used resistors to drop the voltage to about 80v at
> > about 5 amps to get the right amount of flow and pressure to the trans.
> >
> > This sounds like a job for a IGBT, unless someone else has a simpler
> > solution? I would like to keep the same motor and not have a separate
> > battery pack for the aux motor, I would also like to be able to adjust
it so
> > I can fine tune the flow and pressure.
> >
> > The motor is a permanent magnet motor, run between 60v and 100v at
less
> > than 10 amps running, I don't know what the starting current is but it
is a
> > soft start (as in it doesn't peg my meter when I checked it across the
> > shunt) I have never had the motor labor to start, so far!.
> >
> > www.lasvegasev.com
> > Richard Furniss
> > Las Vegas, NV
> > 1986 Mazda EX-7 192v
> > 1981 Lectra Centauri 108v
> > 3 Wheel Trail Master 12v
> > Board Member, www.lveva.org
> > Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
>
> --
> vze3v25q@verizondotnet
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
.
> Glad to hear this. I get very frustrated with the 'hackers' of the EV
world, \
Steve Clunn wrote
glad to see an "s" on the end of the hacker or is that s for steve.
Let me say that I to have been inspired by your post to pay more attention
to details also, to clean up some of those rats nest and even maybe paint
one. I think that a big part of my problem is the urgency that I feel. I'm
sure it's all in my mind and the USA is on firm ground. Like a fire fighter
I just brake down the door with an ax and have water hoses all over the
yard. Of corse nobody watches a fire fighter and thinks "gee I think I'll do
that to my house". Your way I'm sure has inspired many to do nice
conversions I have taken note.
>and though
> these folks may get quite a few EVs put together, their lack of pride in
workmanship,
It may be deeper that lack of pride. For some reason I feel that almost
everthing is "to good " for me . All the good stuff has to be saved for
somebody else. I feel like I have to use old stuff and can't seem to bring
my self to spend money on myself. I run tires that other people throw out
(put them on the rims with crowbars) all wire comes from stuff I stripped
from somewere . What makes this even worse is that people throw so much good
stuff out and I'm riding around all day cutting grass and picking up junk.
My wifes cry "can't we just have something new of once". Funny thing is
most of the stuff that people throw out works fine (maybe there is a detail
out of place ) .
When my kostof motor came it had two of the brass (power ) bolts
broken in shipping . I could have sent it back but my "complex" would not
let me . First this would end up coasting sombody money, probable not me
maybe shipper maybe supplyer , So I got some old brass toilet bolts and
soldered them onto the broke ones . Now this dose not look pretty and
somebody may thing "can't keep the wires on the motor?" That motor has 40k
on it now and still run like the first day I put it in there. I could send
it off to net gain and have it done right for $400 worth of shipping (about
40 yard cuttings) but instead will remodel (with new paint)the bedroom and
keep the wife happy.
> shoddy construction, and poor execution is embarrassing to the EV cause,
and it promotes
> the notion that EVs aren't serious contenders.
I play piano at a restaurant but am a "hack" (really bad singer).
Few people ask to play the piano but many will join in and take over in the
singing department and I know when to shut up . I am helping someone that
saw my
EV build one themselves . They are doing a wonderful job and lots of
attention to detail (it been almost 2 years in the works) Could I ever have
a nice well constructed and executed EV for myself . I have trouble driving
the EV Mazda now (latest hack job). I feel like its way to good for me . To
use it as a work
truck and see it getting beat up hauling all the good stuff being thrown out
would make me ill.
EV's work so well that even poorly constructed one run for years with
little problems.
> For years I've tried to lead by example,
> and it's been especially pleasing for me to finally see others step up to
the plate and
> build beautiful conversions of their own...Ralph Merwin's Geo Prism and
Marko Mongillo's
> Fiamp are two stunning, local to my area, examples of this.
>
I'm not an example of fine work but I love to see it .If anything I want to
see better
work than mine and please spend the money and do it right. If not than find
somebody that will do good work and pay them to do it . Don't have that
kind of money ,don't know anybody that converts cars? Never even seen one
live?
well that sounds like the boat most people are in . When the ship sinks any
piece of wood will float (John will sail away in his 100 k yacht while
listining to his sound system ) (just joking )
What bothers me is that there will be only a few floating
around in there converted bed/dresser life boats and the captain keeps
saying
we don't even need life boats. Now people tell me all the time that
everything is OK and this ship won't sink, why don't I see it. To bad that
all the people I run into and give video tapes to won't get to see your work
of art, what they'll see is just some hack working on a low low budget
project . I don't leave my hood up to show what I have done but what others
can do (If they think they can do better, please do !).
If I spent more time editing video's that people with nice neat
conversions sent me
I'd spend less time converting junk cars. There would be a few less bad
EV's on the road. To bad all mine are on the road, running and showing
how almost
anything will work.
I really enjoy your storys you are a wonderful writer and I'm sure you
have done more for EV's than most. I will raise my standards , not to the
extreme of plating my bolts but in
making a nice, neat , clean EV . But If I did make one with all the details
perfect I'd have to sell it
as it would be to nice for me.
I am embarrassed to be part of a race that eats and kills anything
and everthing on the planet, nothing I do will change that . I'll go wash
my car now.
> > It's no wonder there is so much confusion regarding electroplated
finishes
> > and colors....a chromate treatment
> > (sometimes called a conversion coating) is applied to the zinc or
cadmium to
> > protect them from corrosion....A gold chromate (sometimes called
> > di-chromate) is much more colorful and durable and can impart a very
bright
> > and beautiful iridescent gold finish...
>
> Wow! Thanks for this great post, and thanks for clearing this up! So my
prized Japanese
> hardware that I described as 'The Japanese hardware...there's a bit of
that 'oil on water'
> type of radiance to the gold colored finish' , is actually zinc
di-chromate...thanks, I'll
> stop calling it the wrong thing and now stand much better informed. It
seems that by your
> description, that Paul Compton had it right, too (as I suspected), when he
said, "they're
> passivated Zinc plated".
>
> See Ya......John Wayland
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I received my PFC-50 back from manzanitamicro.com
Rich did an upgrade as well as hear the ticking sound I
had heard. He had emailed me that he had resolved both.
I was anxious to use my PFC-50. I have gotten spoiled with
its flexibility of being able to easily adjust what charge
current I want.
When Rich had the PFC-50, I had used one of my Zivan
chargers (120VAC K2). It works fine but its either on or
off (non adjustable).
I wanted to test the PFC-50 on an AVCON, so I headed south
on highway 101 to the Santa Clara Costco (near the San Jose
Airport).
I got there after it had closed to keep from having to
compete with gas cars in the EV spots. I plugged in using
the AVCON adaptor on the EAA merchandise page
( http://eaaev.org ). It drew about 32 AC amps off their
208VAC source just fine for 15 minutes, until I shut it down
to go test the Mt. View Costco AVCON. I was 30 out of
100 ahs down.
I headed north again (back the way I came), and plugged in
at the Mt. View Costco. I was drawing 32 amps AC off their
208VAC source worked fine. I was putting 36.6 amps DC into
my 132VDC pack (147VDC surface voltage). I was 30 out of
100 ahs down.
Lastly, I went over to Otmar's to turn the PFC-50 all the
way up for full power. I was drawing close to 50 amps off
Otmar's 220VAC, and getting 72 amps DC into my 132VDC pack
(with a surface voltage reading of 150VDC). I was 30 out
of 100 ahs down. I let it run for at least 15 minutes
while yaking with Otmar.
This proves the PFC-50 works fine off an evi ics-200
AVCON charger and gives 11 kw when connected to a 220VAC
50 amp source.
It is very important that no more than 32 amps AC is drawn
from a public AVCON charing head. The AVCON charging head
will not trip, but the host's breaker will trip.
Tripping the host's breaker is difficult to resolve but
worse it leaves the host with a bad taste (dang EVs keep
popping breakers!).
I have proven the PFC-20 and PFC-50 will work off the public
charging. But you have to be careful of your current draw
when using the PFC-50, as not to trip the host's breaker.
EV drivers now have the ability to fully use the public evi
ics-200 AVCON charging. Since the ics-200's circuitry was
originaly designed only for automaker's EVs, all other
220 VAC EV chargers the EV conversions were using, were
excluded. Zivan chargers will not work with evi ics-200
AVCON charging units.
EV drivers have a choice.
Either the lower cost and lower priced PFC-20, or the full
powered PFC-50. But both will run off: 120VAC or 220VAC at
home, or off public AVCON charging (using an AVCON adaptor).
-Bruce :-zzz
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the EV ascci art above)
=====
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--- End Message ---
