EV Digest 2390
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Rudman reg madness
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: PFC-20 & PFC-50 work on public AVCON chargers, where their are some.
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Rudman reg madness
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Is it worth replacing bad batteries?
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: bad battery questions
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Small Controller
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Cheap LCD Voltmeters?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Small Controller
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Ceramic heater voltage
by "Vince" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) PFC-20 Highlights...Thanks Rich and Joe!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) PbA vs. NiCad
by Keith Richtman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Jeep Electric Vehicle
by "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Jeep Electric Vehicle
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: PbA vs. NiCad
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: PFC-20 Highlights...Thanks Rich and Joe!
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Cheap LCD Voltmeters?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: PbA vs. NiCad
by Keith Richtman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Cheap LCD Voltmeter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: PbA vs. NiCad
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: PbA vs. NiCad
by Keith Richtman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: PbA vs. NiCad
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks. Hmm, I have a bunch of TIP31C transistors in the junk box, they
are WAY overkill, but I hope that they will work...
At 01:14 PM 10/26/2002 -0700, Joe Smalley wrote:
To run CPU cooler fans from a Mk 2 regulator.
Use an emitter follower off U1pin 7.
Collector goes to +bat (J2).
Emitter goes to the red wire on the fan.
Black wire on the fan goes to -bat (J6).
Some fans will benefit if a capacitor is put across the fan leads.
There is a schematic at http://www.manzanitamicro.com/fan%20circuit.gif
The transistor not very critical. It must be an NPN that has a voltage
rating at least 20 volts and a current rating large enough to carry the fan
startup current. The dissipation rating should be at least 2 watts per amp
of fan current. If you have a 100 milliamp fan, the transistor needs to be
rated to dissipate 200 milliwatts.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:Cougar@;CasaDelGato.Com
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bruce an' All;
Thanks for the heartwarming story on the fine new line of chargers, and
thanks, Rich, for making them available to us! Gees! It must be nice to have
a choice of public charging, like in CA. Sure makes EV's more useful to Joe
Sixpack" Well I can plugitin over at Costco. When I'm getting the
groceries." All this is dream stuff to us East Coasters. Public charging in
CT? Yeah Right, when pigs fly, and Amtrak makes a profit, paying 10 percent
on it's common stock, if thereWAS any!
It's a chicken and egg thing. There ARENT any public charging
facilities here ,because there arent any electric cars. Period. Yeah, right,
EVery biz is gunna put in outlets , cuz Bob , and Jack, and Ted has an
electric? Those are the 3 in my area. Yeea! All in MY area code! Maybe
the'll be a 4th ,when I get the Sentra back on the road?
Reaching the end of the thread: Electricity is common, EVen in CT, it's
just GETTING it. It's a bummer when yur creeping home on 40 amps ,and there
is gobs of it ,just over your head, on those ubicquitus poles, everywhere.
To get outlets to be OUTlets, so you can access them. Maybe a tax break, for
local bizes to put outlets, 120/240 outside their places of business, for
the electric customer. Make, Paul down at the local garage, and Jim at True
Value ,worth his trouble to put them in. Weather any EV's actually show up,
would be irrelivent, they would get a tax break. That if the folks that levy
taxes around here would go for it?? Maybe at the Mc Donald's rest stops on
the CT turnpike? They are about 25 miles apart. If THEY had good 240@50 amp
outlets? They can charge you twice to feed yur car and yourself. A lot can
be done with a little to get EV's on the road. Guess I have some homework,
to do? They did it in CA, though.
Just a few thoughts, on Power to the People, here.
Seeya
Bob plugging along.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 5:05 AM
Subject: PFC-20 & PFC-50 work on public AVCON chargers
> I received my PFC-50 back from manzanitamicro.com
> Rich did an upgrade as well as hear the ticking sound I
> had heard. He had emailed me that he had resolved both.
>
> I was anxious to use my PFC-50. I have gotten spoiled with
> its flexibility of being able to easily adjust what charge
> current I want.
>
> When Rich had the PFC-50, I had used one of my Zivan
> chargers (120VAC K2). It works fine but its either on or
> off (non adjustable).
>
> I wanted to test the PFC-50 on an AVCON, so I headed south
> on highway 101 to the Santa Clara Costco (near the San Jose
> Airport).
>
> I got there after it had closed to keep from having to
> compete with gas cars in the EV spots. I plugged in using
> the AVCON adaptor on the EAA merchandise page
> ( http://eaaev.org ). It drew about 32 AC amps off their
> 208VAC source just fine for 15 minutes, until I shut it down
> to go test the Mt. View Costco AVCON. I was 30 out of
> 100 ahs down.
>
> I headed north again (back the way I came), and plugged in
> at the Mt. View Costco. I was drawing 32 amps AC off their
> 208VAC source worked fine. I was putting 36.6 amps DC into
> my 132VDC pack (147VDC surface voltage). I was 30 out of
> 100 ahs down.
>
> Lastly, I went over to Otmar's to turn the PFC-50 all the
> way up for full power. I was drawing close to 50 amps off
> Otmar's 220VAC, and getting 72 amps DC into my 132VDC pack
> (with a surface voltage reading of 150VDC). I was 30 out
> of 100 ahs down. I let it run for at least 15 minutes
> while yaking with Otmar.
>
> This proves the PFC-50 works fine off an evi ics-200
> AVCON charger and gives 11 kw when connected to a 220VAC
> 50 amp source.
>
> It is very important that no more than 32 amps AC is drawn
> from a public AVCON charing head. The AVCON charging head
> will not trip, but the host's breaker will trip.
>
> Tripping the host's breaker is difficult to resolve but
> worse it leaves the host with a bad taste (dang EVs keep
> popping breakers!).
>
> I have proven the PFC-20 and PFC-50 will work off the public
> charging. But you have to be careful of your current draw
> when using the PFC-50, as not to trip the host's breaker.
>
> EV drivers now have the ability to fully use the public evi
> ics-200 AVCON charging. Since the ics-200's circuitry was
> originaly designed only for automaker's EVs, all other
> 220 VAC EV chargers the EV conversions were using, were
> excluded. Zivan chargers will not work with evi ics-200
> AVCON charging units.
>
> EV drivers have a choice.
> Either the lower cost and lower priced PFC-20, or the full
> powered PFC-50. But both will run off: 120VAC or 220VAC at
> home, or off public AVCON charging (using an AVCON adaptor).
>
> -Bruce :-zzz
>
>
> =====
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> . (originator of the EV ascci art above)
> =====
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
>
> At 08:37 PM 10/23/2002 -0700, Joe Smalley wrote:
> >charge earlier than the others. If the green LED goes steady, check the heat
> >sink temperature. If it is getting hot, it is doing its job trying to
> >protect the battery from over voltage.
>
> Due to the incredibly poor airflow in my Sparrow, this happens to me
> occaissionally. So I'm about 1/2 done with mounting a CPU fan on each
> heatsink. For now, I'm just going to have them running all the time when
> the charger is running. (Hook a little 12v power brick into the charger AC
> supply.)
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:Cougar@;CasaDelGato.Com
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
With the loadless ones hook the 12 volt fan up to the load, Then you
have the fans on only when thier is power being blown off. Works great
out to OH about 300 watts!!, then it's a BIG fan and 4 50 watt
resostors, getting VERY hot.
The little Cpu fan on the extrusion that I have probably increases the
dissapation capacity of a Mk2 Rudman Reg by 1 power of magnitude. Using
this concept and having pinned fins and a bit heavier duty fan, is what
Sheer and I had in mind for the external load on a MK3 reg.
An Evercell Pack is going to need some pretty stout regs. At least for
the first Dozzen cycles.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Hastings wrote:
> Yeah I really wish I had a nice adjustable charger. Right now I have a
> NG3 that just charges away.
I thought that the NG3's were adjustable within a limited range, just
not easily. As in not designed for the end user to do it, so you'd have
to get someone who knows to tell you what the procedure is.
And for the diodes, I wouldn't try that to disappear 16 volts... the
diodes would cost as much as a battery. But if swapped in two 6-volters
for two 8-volters, might be a way to disappear the 4 volts difference.
> I went out and took a look at the cells and I don't seem to have
> anything growing between/above the plates. but there looks like what looks
> like a sleave of white sand in between every other plate? It starts about
> 1/4 inch under the tops of the plates it seems identical in every cell all
> along the plates.
Could be the same thing... it looks more like gray sand/cement in my
batteries (and to my eyes) but same idea.
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S-10
1970s Elec-Trak E20
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK, any ideas as to what happened to this battery? Clearly I need to
replace it. The pack has about 20 cycles on it, most very shallow.
Hopefully a new one won't get to burned breaking in.
Oh, charging the pack now. After a few minutes at the beginning with it
still reading under 6v its voltage is matching the rest of the pack now
(10 amp charge, Lester on 120vac). I do know this battery likes to read
the highest late in charge (when the pack gets to about 150v). However,
most of the time its voltage fits right in with the rest of the pack,
perhaps a couple 100ths of a volt lower.
Sounds like one or more plates open-circuited or you lost plate
area some other way. SG would look fine because you will have satisfied the
active plate area without soaking up the available acid.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I saw a bunch of small controllers at Excess Solutions in San Jose CA. It
is on Brokaw Rd. Lawrence Rhodes..
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Furniss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 6:19 PM
Subject: Small Controller
> Hi All;
>
> I need help finding a better way to power my aux motor that drives my
> trans pump, I'm moving up to a 240v battery pack and the aux motor is
rated
> at 110v, up to now I used resistors to drop the voltage to about 80v at
> about 5 amps to get the right amount of flow and pressure to the trans.
>
> This sounds like a job for a IGBT, unless someone else has a simpler
> solution? I would like to keep the same motor and not have a separate
> battery pack for the aux motor, I would also like to be able to adjust it
so
> I can fine tune the flow and pressure.
>
> The motor is a permanent magnet motor, run between 60v and 100v at
less
> than 10 amps running, I don't know what the starting current is but it is
a
> soft start (as in it doesn't peg my meter when I checked it across the
> shunt) I have never had the motor labor to start, so far!.
>
> www.lasvegasev.com
> Richard Furniss
> Las Vegas, NV
> 1986 Mazda EX-7 192v
> 1981 Lectra Centauri 108v
> 3 Wheel Trail Master 12v
> Board Member, www.lveva.org
> Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about one meter and a switch that has many throws. I have seen switches
like this. Lawrence Rhodes...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Meier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: Cheap LCD Voltmeters?
> How about using 2 or 3 of Lee's Batt-Bridge indicators? The ones
> that show an imbalance. Put one across the whole pack, tapped in the
> center. Put a second one across your known worst battery and one
> of it's neighbors. If you have a second worst battery that is also
> nearly as bad as the worst one, use a third Batt-Bridge (I think that's
> the name for them) over that battery and a neighboring one. Then,
> if any of them light, back off! Pretty cheap and easy compared to
> hooking up dozens of meters and trying to read them all while driving.
> You want to *know* when a cell is dying, not spot it after it has
> been that way when you we're able to look at *all* the meters.
>
> -Chris
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "michael bearden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 9:55 PM
> Subject: Re: Cheap LCD Voltmeters?
>
>
> > Rudman reg question here.(Joe or Rich)...could these be run off of the
> > "sense" terminals on the Mk II's? This would give me a great monitor
> while
> > driving... Can you imagine trying to read 24 voltmeters while driving?
> > Michael B.
> >
> > Lee Hart wrote:
> > If it were me and I wanted a cheap solution, I'd get 24 little LED
> >
> > > bar-graph displays, and wire them as an expanded-scale voltmeter. For
> > > example, Marlin P. Jones stock# 4210-RB, 7 LEDs, shows 12v battery
> > > voltage in 0.25v, 0.5v, or 1v steps, $6.95 each (for 5 or more).
> > >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello All,
Richard Furniss is looking for a small high voltage controller for
running a lower voltage motor. I don't know of anything on the market
for doing that.
I have been considering making a small DC controller for heaters and
power steering motors for some time. It could be something like a
very tiny Zilla with output voltage and current adjustable. It would
not be very hard for me to develop since it can use much of the
technology that is now used in the Zilla.
For me it would allow a "way too fancy" control of heating elements.
Possibly with temperature sensors and feedback. I would also like to
use it to run a low voltage power steering pump directly from the
high voltage pack.
My questions to the list are these:
How many people might need something like this?
What would you use one for?
What specs would you desire?
Air or water cooled? (It makes 45 watts max.)
Is it worth $60 extra to have it in a pretty box with a heat sink, or
would you rather provide package and heat sink for it yourself?
The specs I'm considering are these:
Input: 48 to 348 V Nom. 27 to 400 V operating. 450V Max. 30 amps max.
Output: Variable voltage, current limited at 30 amps, 50 amp peak optional.
Approximate size: 3" x 4" x 3" plus heatsink.
Back of the envelope calcs bring the price in around $300. in low quantities.
What do you think? Would people like such a thing?
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee wrote:
> If you can fit in two units, you could wire them each for 240v. Even
> though they would each deliver less heat on 176v than they would at
> 240v, the two of them might still deliver more than a single 120v unit
> at 176v. And, they would be operating at less than rated voltage
> instead of more.
Spot on.
I noticed a footnote in the listings for water heater elements from a wholesaler. It
said that the 240v elements could be used to replace
old 208v elements, with the only proviso being the resulting recovery rate of the
water heater would be slower.
So, operating the 240v units at 176v might not be such a good idea for a household
water heater, but it should work just fine for a small
tank in this application.
Vince
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
> I let it run for at least 15 minutes
> while yaking with Otmar....This proves the PFC-50 works fine off an evi ics-200
> AVCON charger and gives 11 kw when connected to a 220VAC
> 50 amp source......EV drivers have a choice.
> Either the lower cost and lower priced PFC-20, or the full
> powered PFC-50. But both will run off: 120VAC or 220VAC at
> home, or off public AVCON charging (using an AVCON adaptor).
Bruce, as always, I thoroughly enjoyed reading your latest 'out & about charging'
report...you are hands down, the EV charging god! Every time I read of your
traveling/EV
charging adventures, I envision that picture I took of you with the electric Blazer's
doors open, cords and every plug adapter known to man strewn about, and that demented
look
on your face as your teeth are clenched around more cords!
On a much smaller scale, I too, have been enjoying the versatility and fast charging
capability of Da Madman's and Smalley's PFC equipment. Unlike California, up here in
Oregon, we do not have such a wonderful EV charging infrastructure...yet. We do,
however,
have a small start with one 'accessible' public EV charging station downtown on Salmon
Street between 1st and 2nd. It looks like a miniature telephone booth and it's mounted
atop a metal post...it's a simple but very effective setup. It's clearly labeled as an
EV
charging station and is positioned between two parking/charging spots. It has two
sides,
one that faces each space. Each side has a door that opens easily to reveal a pair of
outlets and a switch to control them...a 120 vac outlet, and a beefy NEMA 14-50, 40 amp
240 vac outlet. Of course, like all of them, my PFC-20 can take advantage of either,
but I
have tasted the high current mode at the 240 vac rate, and so that's the one I always
go
for. Once the selector switch is twisted to a chosen outlet, you can hear a contactor
slam
in, and a pilot light lets you know juice is available. With your EV's charging cord
inserted, it can hang down through an open space, even with the station's door closed.
Besides being just one close block from the local OEVA's monthly EV meeting place, the
charging station is also, totally coincidentally, on the same block as my daughter's
work
location at one of Portland's numerous Starbucks coffee houses.
As I've pointed out many times, Blue Meanie is a short range type of EV, designed from
its
inception to be a fun and fast, strong performing, BIG EV grin type of machine, with
range
per charge being one of the least important items on my EV wish list. As such, the
minimalist 585 lb. lead acid battery pack of just 13 Optima YTs is about 1/4 of the
total
vehicle weight (2340 lbs.)...great for a high power to weight ratio, but it's far from
the
recommended 1/3 battery to vehicle weight for good range when using lead acid type
batteries. When the pack was new and at full power, the small number of Optimas could
give
up to 30 miles of eek-it-out, squeeze every last drop of juice, warm weather type,
grandma
style, egg under the foot driving, or about 25 miles of regular driving, or about 20
miles
of spirited motoring, including fun acceleration runs and 'not for the timid' over the
limit freeway cruising! 5 years later, the Optimas are still hanging in there, never a
spec of corrosion, never a fizzle, never any noticeable gassing....they've been
wonderful.
Finally, though they can still easily pump out 1200 amps when Mr. Raptor demands it
(thank
you Rich and Damon for designing such a killer 156V controller), after perhaps, 500
cycles, their range capacity is starting to go down, and what used to be an
easy-to-get 25
ahrs. of range power has recently dipped down to closer to 20 ahrs. This makes the
addition of the PFC-20 such a blessing, and it's what has kept me from doing a battery
pack swap, even though I have another set of batteries ready to be put in.
My daughter has her own vehicle, but with Portland's electric light rail system 'MAX'
so
handy, with a stop just blocks from our house, and with it also stopping two blocks
from
her downtown work location, she opts for that mode of travel...unless of course, I am
around at those times she either needs to go into work, or be picked up from work. The
past month I've had more time in town and have been at home a lot, so I enjoy being
able
to whisk her to and from work...it's a great time to chat with her, and it's a great
time
for electric commuting! She thinks of the Meanie as her close friend, as it's the car
she
learned how to drive in, and it's been in the family since before she was born! Between
the Meanie and my Insight, and with her approaching 20 and getting more adult with each
day, she's also been more interested in the whole EV/hybrid thing.
Blue Meanie has seen pretty heavy duty doing the Starbucks run lately, and with the
powerful PFC-20 (massaged a bit over specs) on board and that nifty charger stand
right at
my daughter's work area, even with batteries in the autumn of their life, the 18 mile
round trip is a breeze. We fly downtown on the I-84 freeway, enjoying the silent power
of
the car, and after I leave her off at the doorstep, I round the corner, pull into the
always-waiting free parking space (there's often another EV in one of the spaces, and
that's always cool to see), plug into 240 vac, and jam in 28.7 amps to the 156V pack!
The
Emeter ratchets backwards nearly as fast as it does while driving the car at suburban
speeds, and in about 10 minutes, the pack is topped up enough for a safe margin to get
back home, but in 20 minutes, its all the way full again! Those 20 minutes usually fly
by
quickly, as passers by all want to talk about the EV at the EV charging station! When
picking her up from work, I leave home a pinch early, park at the charging station,
plug
in, and by the time I walk around the corner to meet her, wait a few minutes while she
and
a coworker closes down the store, and we walk back together, the car's fully charged
again....neat! We then blast home at freeway speeds, and 9 slightly uphill miles
later, I
pull into the Wayland backyard EV shop, plug into the NEMA 14-50 outlet, and rejuice
again. It doesn't take long before the car is fully charged again and ready for more
driving fun.
This past month, Meanie's been averaging about 50-60 miles a day, thanks mostly to
having
such a fast acting, 'walk-away-and-forget-it' type of powerful charger on board. My
Insight was last filled up sometime back in Sept....thanks Rich and Joe!
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok guys I need some input here. I have narrowed it down to two
possible battery packs for my moped.
Pack 1: (34) Surplus Marathon 24Ah Nicad cells
Nominal voltage 40.8V
Pack Capacity at 30 min rate ~960 Wh
Weight 85 lb
Cost $316 shipped w/ 4 spare cells
Better temperature handling
Easier to mount individual cells on a moped
Gambling on quality of surplus cells
Better capacity at high discharge rates
Pack 2: (4) Hawker Genesis 26EP
Nominal voltage 48V
Pack Capacity at 30 min rate ~930 Wh
Weight 90 lb
Cost $286 shipped
Easier to charge
Proven EV battery
Weight, capacity, and cost are all basically equal. I am seriously
leaning towards the Nicad pack, but I am looking for some more
experienced EVers input. Also, anyone with experience with the
surplus Nicad's from SG photo, please contact me off-list with any
positive or negative comments.
Thanks,
Keith
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A week or so ago I asked for information about the Jeep
EV that was at Woodburn 1999.
http://www.veva.bc.ca/woodburn/1999/7830032.htm
I did learn a little about the Jeep and did get the URL
for a site with more info about it
http://www.lava.net/~patricki/tbe_1.html
I did send an email to the Jeep's owner, Patrick Donegan
but haven't got an answer yet.
The Jeep apparently has VW front and rear axles, 20 Optima
YT batteries, a fiberglass replica Jeep body and a 9-inch
ADC motor. Curb weight is listed at 2710 lbs. This sounds
like an EV I'd enjoy. It weighs 1130 lbs less than my Ranger
conversion did which would permit the 9-inch motor to give
much better performance.
The Jeep body style is one you may or may not like. I like
the sit up and see where I'm going posture and having plenty of headroom in
spite of my extra long torso. Its shape offers a
lot of wind resistance at high speeds so wouldn't be well suited
for fast trips on the freeways, but I don't need a freeway EV.
I would like to know more about Mr Donegan's Jeep. I
hope I do manage to get in touch with him. Any information
others may have about this Jeep would be appreciated.
My fuzzy old memory recalls that somebody was offering a
Jeep similar to Mr Donegan's a few years ago. All I remember
is that the location was a California coastal town north of
Los Angeles. Anybody know anything about that?
Tom Shay
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My fuzzy old memory recalls that somebody was offering a
Jeep similar to Mr Donegan's a few years ago. All I remember
is that the location was a California coastal town north of
Los Angeles. Anybody know anything about that?
I believe the company was in Seaside (near Monterey). I forgot the
name, maybe California conversions?
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You need a charger. You must include the cost in the analysis.
The NiCads will probably outlive the PbA batteries. The payback time of the
extra cost of the charger needs to be amortized over the life of the PbA
batteries.
Life of the batteries is more dependent on the charger than anything else.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Richtman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 9:05 PM
Subject: PbA vs. NiCad
> Ok guys I need some input here. I have narrowed it down to two
> possible battery packs for my moped.
>
> Pack 1: (34) Surplus Marathon 24Ah Nicad cells
> Nominal voltage 40.8V
> Pack Capacity at 30 min rate ~960 Wh
> Weight 85 lb
> Cost $316 shipped w/ 4 spare cells
> Better temperature handling
> Easier to mount individual cells on a moped
> Gambling on quality of surplus cells
> Better capacity at high discharge rates
>
> Pack 2: (4) Hawker Genesis 26EP
> Nominal voltage 48V
> Pack Capacity at 30 min rate ~930 Wh
> Weight 90 lb
> Cost $286 shipped
> Easier to charge
> Proven EV battery
>
> Weight, capacity, and cost are all basically equal. I am seriously
> leaning towards the Nicad pack, but I am looking for some more
> experienced EVers input. Also, anyone with experience with the
> surplus Nicad's from SG photo, please contact me off-list with any
> positive or negative comments.
>
> Thanks,
> Keith
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I love a good story from a happy customer. That makes two for the weekend.
Thanks for the kudos. It helps keep us working to make these things better.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 8:51 PM
Subject: PFC-20 Highlights...Thanks Rich and Joe!
> Hello to All,
>
> Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
>
> > I let it run for at least 15 minutes
> > while yaking with Otmar....This proves the PFC-50 works fine off an evi
ics-200
> > AVCON charger and gives 11 kw when connected to a 220VAC
> > 50 amp source......EV drivers have a choice.
> > Either the lower cost and lower priced PFC-20, or the full
> > powered PFC-50. But both will run off: 120VAC or 220VAC at
> > home, or off public AVCON charging (using an AVCON adaptor).
>
> Bruce, as always, I thoroughly enjoyed reading your latest 'out & about
charging'
> report...you are hands down, the EV charging god! Every time I read of
your traveling/EV
> charging adventures, I envision that picture I took of you with the
electric Blazer's
> doors open, cords and every plug adapter known to man strewn about, and
that demented look
> on your face as your teeth are clenched around more cords!
>
> On a much smaller scale, I too, have been enjoying the versatility and
fast charging
> capability of Da Madman's and Smalley's PFC equipment. Unlike California,
up here in
> Oregon, we do not have such a wonderful EV charging infrastructure...yet.
We do, however,
> have a small start with one 'accessible' public EV charging station
downtown on Salmon
> Street between 1st and 2nd. It looks like a miniature telephone booth and
it's mounted
> atop a metal post...it's a simple but very effective setup. It's clearly
labeled as an EV
> charging station and is positioned between two parking/charging spots. It
has two sides,
> one that faces each space. Each side has a door that opens easily to
reveal a pair of
> outlets and a switch to control them...a 120 vac outlet, and a beefy NEMA
14-50, 40 amp
> 240 vac outlet. Of course, like all of them, my PFC-20 can take advantage
of either, but I
> have tasted the high current mode at the 240 vac rate, and so that's the
one I always go
> for. Once the selector switch is twisted to a chosen outlet, you can hear
a contactor slam
> in, and a pilot light lets you know juice is available. With your EV's
charging cord
> inserted, it can hang down through an open space, even with the station's
door closed.
> Besides being just one close block from the local OEVA's monthly EV
meeting place, the
> charging station is also, totally coincidentally, on the same block as my
daughter's work
> location at one of Portland's numerous Starbucks coffee houses.
<snip>
> As I've pointed out many times, Blue Meanie is a short range type of EV,
designed from its
> inception to be a fun and fast, strong performing, BIG EV grin type of
machine, with range
> per charge being one of the least important items on my EV wish list. As
such, the
> minimalist 585 lb. lead acid battery pack of just 13 Optima YTs is about
1/4 of the total
> vehicle weight (2340 lbs.)...great for a high power to weight ratio, but
it's far from the
> recommended 1/3 battery to vehicle weight for good range when using lead
acid type
> batteries. When the pack was new and at full power, the small number of
Optimas could give
> up to 30 miles of eek-it-out, squeeze every last drop of juice, warm
weather type, grandma
> style, egg under the foot driving, or about 25 miles of regular driving,
or about 20 miles
> of spirited motoring, including fun acceleration runs and 'not for the
timid' over the
> limit freeway cruising! 5 years later, the Optimas are still hanging in
there, never a
> spec of corrosion, never a fizzle, never any noticeable gassing....they've
been wonderful.
> Finally, though they can still easily pump out 1200 amps when Mr. Raptor
demands it (thank
> you Rich and Damon for designing such a killer 156V controller), after
perhaps, 500
> cycles, their range capacity is starting to go down, and what used to be
an easy-to-get 25
> ahrs. of range power has recently dipped down to closer to 20 ahrs. This
makes the
> addition of the PFC-20 such a blessing, and it's what has kept me from
doing a battery
> pack swap, even though I have another set of batteries ready to be put in.
>
> Blue Meanie has seen pretty heavy duty doing the Starbucks run lately, and
with the
> powerful PFC-20 (massaged a bit over specs) on board and that nifty
charger stand right at
> my daughter's work area, even with batteries in the autumn of their life,
the 18 mile
> round trip is a breeze. We fly downtown on the I-84 freeway, enjoying the
silent power of
> the car, and after I leave her off at the doorstep, I round the corner,
pull into the
> always-waiting free parking space (there's often another EV in one of the
spaces, and
> that's always cool to see), plug into 240 vac, and jam in 28.7 amps to the
156V pack! The
> Emeter ratchets backwards nearly as fast as it does while driving the car
at suburban
> speeds, and in about 10 minutes, the pack is topped up enough for a safe
margin to get
> back home, but in 20 minutes, its all the way full again! Those 20 minutes
usually fly by
> quickly, as passers by all want to talk about the EV at the EV charging
station! When
> picking her up from work, I leave home a pinch early, park at the charging
station, plug
> in, and by the time I walk around the corner to meet her, wait a few
minutes while she and
> a coworker closes down the store, and we walk back together, the car's
fully charged
> again....neat! We then blast home at freeway speeds, and 9 slightly uphill
miles later, I
> pull into the Wayland backyard EV shop, plug into the NEMA 14-50 outlet,
and rejuice
> again. It doesn't take long before the car is fully charged again and
ready for more
> driving fun.
>
> This past month, Meanie's been averaging about 50-60 miles a day, thanks
mostly to having
> such a fast acting, 'walk-away-and-forget-it' type of powerful charger on
board. My
> Insight was last filled up sometime back in Sept....thanks Rich and Joe!
>
> See Ya.....John Wayland
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> How about one meter and a switch that has many throws. I have seen
> switches like this.
It's easy to get rotary switches for up to 12 positions. 16 positions
are still relatively common. But rotary switches with more than 16
positions are hard to find.
A second caveat with any mechanical switch is that you must be
ABSOLUTELY sure it doesn't short positions (called a "non-shorting"
switch). If it shorts adjacent positions, you can short batteries
through the switch!
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Charger cost is the same for both. I have two 24V (+- 4V) switchmode
power supplies that will charge either chemistry once the pack is
split in the middle.
Keith
At 10:06 PM -0800 10/27/02, Joe Smalley wrote:
You need a charger. You must include the cost in the analysis.
The NiCads will probably outlive the PbA batteries. The payback time of the
extra cost of the charger needs to be amortized over the life of the PbA
batteries.
Life of the batteries is more dependent on the charger than anything else.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Richtman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 9:05 PM
Subject: PbA vs. NiCad
Ok guys I need some input here. I have narrowed it down to two
possible battery packs for my moped.
Pack 1: (34) Surplus Marathon 24Ah Nicad cells
Nominal voltage 40.8V
Pack Capacity at 30 min rate ~960 Wh
Weight 85 lb
Cost $316 shipped w/ 4 spare cells
Better temperature handling
Easier to mount individual cells on a moped
Gambling on quality of surplus cells
Better capacity at high discharge rates
Pack 2: (4) Hawker Genesis 26EP
Nominal voltage 48V
Pack Capacity at 30 min rate ~930 Wh
Weight 90 lb
Cost $286 shipped
Easier to charge
Proven EV battery
Weight, capacity, and cost are all basically equal. I am seriously
leaning towards the Nicad pack, but I am looking for some more
experienced EVers input. Also, anyone with experience with the
surplus Nicad's from SG photo, please contact me off-list with any
> positive or negative comments.
>
> Thanks,
> Keith
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am posting this for Chuck Hendrick, who says...
I tried twice to send this to the EVDL, and it bounced saying
"...destination server said: 5.3.0 REJECT Known SPAM source (from
listproc.sjsu.edu:130.65.3.19)"
Would you please forward this to EVDL for me? THANKS!
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: Cheap LCD Voltmeter
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 22:34:28 -0700
From: Chuck Hendrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I was very pleased with the LASCAR EMV 1200 LCD voltmeter found at
http://www.lascarelectronics.com/
It has a 4-25 volt range, and is powered by the voltage it is measuring.
They cost $25 each. I purchased one and have my 12 batteries
connected to a 12 position (non-shorting) rotary switch. I rotate the
switch from position one to 12 and can read each battery voltage.
The only drawback is that it is not backlit, so it's difficult to see at
night.
Chuck
93 Honda Delectric Sol
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/342.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do the chargers follow the NiCad or AGM charge profiles or are you just
using a CI/CV profile for both chemistries?
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Richtman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: PbA vs. NiCad
> Charger cost is the same for both. I have two 24V (+- 4V) switchmode
> power supplies that will charge either chemistry once the pack is
> split in the middle.
>
> Keith
>
> At 10:06 PM -0800 10/27/02, Joe Smalley wrote:
> >You need a charger. You must include the cost in the analysis.
> >
> >The NiCads will probably outlive the PbA batteries. The payback time of
the
> >extra cost of the charger needs to be amortized over the life of the PbA
> >batteries.
> >
> >Life of the batteries is more dependent on the charger than anything
else.
> >
> >Joe Smalley
> >Rural Kitsap County WA
> >Fiesta 48 volts
> >NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Keith Richtman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 9:05 PM
> >Subject: PbA vs. NiCad
> >
> >
> >> Ok guys I need some input here. I have narrowed it down to two
> >> possible battery packs for my moped.
> >>
> >> Pack 1: (34) Surplus Marathon 24Ah Nicad cells
> >> Nominal voltage 40.8V
> >> Pack Capacity at 30 min rate ~960 Wh
> >> Weight 85 lb
> >> Cost $316 shipped w/ 4 spare cells
> >> Better temperature handling
> >> Easier to mount individual cells on a moped
> >> Gambling on quality of surplus cells
> >> Better capacity at high discharge rates
> >>
> >> Pack 2: (4) Hawker Genesis 26EP
> >> Nominal voltage 48V
> >> Pack Capacity at 30 min rate ~930 Wh
> >> Weight 90 lb
> >> Cost $286 shipped
> >> Easier to charge
> >> Proven EV battery
> >>
> >> Weight, capacity, and cost are all basically equal. I am seriously
> >> leaning towards the Nicad pack, but I am looking for some more
> >> experienced EVers input. Also, anyone with experience with the
> >> surplus Nicad's from SG photo, please contact me off-list with any
> > > positive or negative comments.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Keith
> > >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
CV for both.
Keith
At 10:27 PM -0800 10/27/02, Joe Smalley wrote:
Do the chargers follow the NiCad or AGM charge profiles or are you just
using a CI/CV profile for both chemistries?
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Richtman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: PbA vs. NiCad
Charger cost is the same for both. I have two 24V (+- 4V) switchmode
power supplies that will charge either chemistry once the pack is
split in the middle.
Keith
At 10:06 PM -0800 10/27/02, Joe Smalley wrote:
>You need a charger. You must include the cost in the analysis.
>
>The NiCads will probably outlive the PbA batteries. The payback time of
the
>extra cost of the charger needs to be amortized over the life of the PbA
>batteries.
>
>Life of the batteries is more dependent on the charger than anything
else.
>
>Joe Smalley
>Rural Kitsap County WA
>Fiesta 48 volts
>NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Keith Richtman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 9:05 PM
>Subject: PbA vs. NiCad
>
>
>> Ok guys I need some input here. I have narrowed it down to two
>> possible battery packs for my moped.
>>
>> Pack 1: (34) Surplus Marathon 24Ah Nicad cells
>> Nominal voltage 40.8V
>> Pack Capacity at 30 min rate ~960 Wh
>> Weight 85 lb
>> Cost $316 shipped w/ 4 spare cells
>> Better temperature handling
>> Easier to mount individual cells on a moped
>> Gambling on quality of surplus cells
>> Better capacity at high discharge rates
>>
>> Pack 2: (4) Hawker Genesis 26EP
>> Nominal voltage 48V
>> Pack Capacity at 30 min rate ~930 Wh
>> Weight 90 lb
>> Cost $286 shipped
>> Easier to charge
>> Proven EV battery
>>
>> Weight, capacity, and cost are all basically equal. I am seriously
>> leaning towards the Nicad pack, but I am looking for some more
>> experienced EVers input. Also, anyone with experience with the
>> surplus Nicad's from SG photo, please contact me off-list with any
> > > positive or negative comments.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Keith
> > >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
NiCad, If only because you can leave the go-kart uncharged before
putting it back in the garage and not trash the batteries. I suspect
that you will find that the NiCads will actually have more energy (up to
50% more) that the Hawkers at your discharge rate.
And I would fuse your power supply output at just above max current and
protect it with a diode (like a Schottky for lower loss) so the battery
doesn't try to damage the supply (or burn the house down) if the supply
loses power. You will need to sense actual voltage, not before the diode
and fuse drop, which can be a pain if you want to use the display on the
power supply (if it has one). I haven't tried the sense leads on my
Sorensen 80-13 power supply for this purpose yet, I have been using a DMM.
One thing I did notice about the SG photo batteries is the terminals are
corroded. Vinegar and plastic wool seem to clean it up pretty well, but
it is ugly looking.
Seth
Keith Richtman wrote:
>
> CV for both.
>
> Keith
>
> At 10:27 PM -0800 10/27/02, Joe Smalley wrote:
> >Do the chargers follow the NiCad or AGM charge profiles or are you just
> >using a CI/CV profile for both chemistries?
> >
> >Joe Smalley
> >Rural Kitsap County WA
> >Fiesta 48 volts
> >NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Keith Richtman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 10:19 PM
> >Subject: Re: PbA vs. NiCad
> >
> >
> >> Charger cost is the same for both. I have two 24V (+- 4V) switchmode
> >> power supplies that will charge either chemistry once the pack is
> >> split in the middle.
> >>
vze3v25q@verizondotnet
--- End Message ---
