EV Digest 2392
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: PFC-20 Highlights...Thanks Rich and Joe!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) OT sound systems for EVS
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: PbA vs. NiCad
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Small Controller
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: OT: Re: Who Elected These People?!
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Tango
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) [Fwd: Link to Rod's front page article]
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: PFC-20 Highlights...Thanks Rich and Joe!
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: [Fwd: Link to Rod's front page article]
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: How much is enough? (long) (was: RE: Epiphany on Range Issue)
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Tango
by "Walker, Lesley R" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Heater relays and elements
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Small Controller
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Small Controller
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Tango
by "Walker, Lesley R" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Heater relays and elements
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Heater relays and elements OT
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Needing A Couple of Powercheqs
by "jlentz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: PFC-20 & PFC-50 work on public AVCON chargers, where their are some.
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Hobby batteries and charger to play with
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Tango
by "Christopher Meier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Fuel Cell Demo at Fry's on AutoMall, Fremont, CA
by "Christopher Meier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Sacramento NEDRA EVent this Saturday...
by Martin Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) It's Dead, Jim (long) (part II)
by Geoff Shepherd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Rudman Barbecue
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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I am ready to pop a sound system and alarm in my Aspire and I noticed that
Radio Shack my favorite source for alarms no longer sells them nor any car
audio. I found some Pioneer TS-G1345 that go down to 40 cycles per second
for only 39 bucks. I didn't want to put in a subwoofer but I could. I also
found a Power Acoustik VX5203 but it seems to be 4" deep(won't fit in the
doors) but (couldn't believe it) only 19 bucks a pair. I wanted to put in
an Alpine because of the good FM tuner. I am trying to do this on the cheap
and keep the alarm and stereo price at about $250. I 'm sure John W. would
sneer at it but I have been happy with systems like this in the past and I'm
sure it will be good enough for now. Anybody found good deals in car stereo
lately. It's been years since I have done anything with it and things have
changed. Lawrence Rhodes...
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They have an elastomer valve, so I didn't get any in. The vavle also
keeps the pressure pretty high during charging. And they spit/spray
stinky gas when you open the valve (really a bit of rubber tube).
Corroded spots on the top of my yellow zinc plated Sorensen with the spatter.
Seth
"David Roden (Akron OH USA)" wrote:
>
> On 28 Oct 2002 at 7:08, Seth wrote:
>
> > One thing I did notice about the SG photo batteries is the terminals are
> > corroded. Vinegar and plastic wool seem to clean it up pretty well, but it is
> > ugly looking.
>
> Careful! Keep that vinegar out of the cells! It's death for your nicads!
>
> Nicad doctors tell me to never use any tool that's been ~near~ a lead acid
> battery on nicads. Don't use the same hydrometer, even if it's been
> thoroughly washed. Don't even use the same filler for watering, they say.
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
> switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> 1991 Solectria Force 144vac
> 1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
> 1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
> 1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
> thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--
vze3v25q@verizondotnet
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Otmar wrote:
>
> Hello All,
>
> Richard Furniss is looking for a small high voltage controller for
> running a lower voltage motor. I don't know of anything on the market
> for doing that.
>
> I have been considering making a small DC controller for heaters and
> power steering motors for some time. It could be something like a
> very tiny Zilla with output voltage and current adjustable. It would
> not be very hard for me to develop since it can use much of the
> technology that is now used in the Zilla.
>
> For me it would allow a "way too fancy" control of heating elements.
> Possibly with temperature sensors and feedback. I would also like to
> use it to run a low voltage power steering pump directly from the
> high voltage pack.
>
> My questions to the list are these:
> How many people might need something like this?
> What would you use one for?
> What specs would you desire?
> Air or water cooled? (It makes 45 watts max.)
> Is it worth $60 extra to have it in a pretty box with a heat sink, or
> would you rather provide package and heat sink for it yourself?
>
> The specs I'm considering are these:
> Input: 48 to 348 V Nom. 27 to 400 V operating. 450V Max. 30 amps max.
> Output: Variable voltage, current limited at 30 amps, 50 amp peak optional.
> Approximate size: 3" x 4" x 3" plus heatsink.
>
> Back of the envelope calcs bring the price in around $300. in low quantities.
>
> What do you think? Would people like such a thing?
> -Otmar-
>
> http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
> http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
Make it Ot or I will have to.
I have some pretty serious volumes in mind also.
For $300 It's not really worth me diving in.
Tell me more Ot.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> Jeff Clearwater wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Yours in service toward a sustainable future,
> >
> > Jeff
>
> Welcome back Jeff.
> This is NOT a religious list.
> You are anti NUKE..... and have all the evidence you need to support
> your Views
>
> I, and others think Nuke is the only really viable high energy Free Lunch NON
> Carbon consuming power source that
> industry can turn too that can solve our current energy needs.
>
> Without backing my view up lets say you are not going to convince me and I am
> not going to convince you.
>
> Lets NOT get into this on this list.
>
> Besides My Evs are Salmon Patte powered. And I have already turned up the
> heat to help Keep California in the dark.
>
> Rich Rudman
Oh very sorry list!!!
This is a outgoing post from a couple of years ago that was stuck in the
outbox of my old 400,
Lets not restart it.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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Is the Tango street legal in the US ?
Is the Tango available for sale in the US ?
Where is it available ?
Price Tag ?
________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
Visit www.juno.com
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Hey folks this a link to our Rod Wilde at EVparts.com
He made the front page of the Bremerton Sun paper to day.
I was just showing him off to a eletrician working on my house, and what
the heck here comes a famous EVer!!
With paper in hand!!
http://www.thesunlink.com/news/2002/october/1028electriccars.html
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>
> John Wayland wrote:
> >
> > Hello to All,
> >
> > Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> >
> > > Just wondering what the Meanie could do with other available battery
> > > technologies? Wonder how many used Lion cell phone batteries it would take
> > > and wonder if the solder would weigh more than the batteries(grin) Lawrence
> > > Rhodes...
> >
> > I've thought along the same line. If it weren't for charging and safety concerns,
>the
> > Chinese Lithium Ion cells look awfully tempting.
> > The reality seems to be for now,
> > that the picky charging regime, safety concerns over explosion,...
>
> Sorry, you (or anyone on the list) have no data to back up these
> concerns (which is good because explosion is not that much of a
> concern).
>
> Unlike consumer electronics LiIon batteries sealed in plastic, which
> may make it explode if overcharged (due to internal pressure build up)
> EV size LiIon batteries always have safety valve relieving the pressure.
>
> All explosion cases come from small batteries experiences.
> WHen was last time someone heard about EV LiIon battery explosion?
>
> If overcharged, they usually leak, not explode.
>
> BMS is a must, without it the battery will be damaged, but not
> exploded (unless you do 2C rate dump charge to test that...).
>
> PFC-20/50 can only be used as a power stage - the brains are needed.
>
> Victor
Yup we need more brains. The Ball is rolling for a brainy REMOTE. Lets
see where it goes.
Not that I could use more brains, Not ME???? The more the merrier.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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That was a really cool article.
I want more specs on the scooter though.
How 'bout it Rod, give us some detailed specs.
Rod
Rich Rudman wrote:
Hey folks this a link to our Rod Wilde at EVparts.com
He made the front page of the Bremerton Sun paper to day.
I was just showing him off to a eletrician working on my house, and what
the heck here comes a famous EVer!!
With paper in hand!!
http://www.thesunlink.com/news/2002/october/1028electriccars.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:
Link to Rod's front page article
From:
Smalley Joseph K KPWA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:
Mon, 28 Oct 2002 10:00:45 -0800
To:
"'Rich at tscnet'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Chris Tromley wrote:
>
>
> We've come a long way, even in the short time I've been involved with
> EVs. DC Power controllers and Manzanita Micro chargers are fairly
> recent developments that I see as huge advances. Lately we've been
> seeing more activity with alternative battery chemistries. I don't
> think everyone can go out and bump their range up to 100 miles, nor that
> they should. I do think some of us are more accepting of range
> limitations than perhaps we should be. If we consider what we could do
> to increase range, maybe when the next pack goes in, I think the whole
> EV cause will benefit.
>
> Chris
As far as I can see... and it's pretty clear right now, Evercell Can
give us all 100 mile range. Sheer did it. Others will do it very soon.
There's better stuff on the way. A little more R&D time and we will
have a Evercell charge cycle that beats the published recomendations.
AND we can do it with very little "BRAINS" in the charger. I can
tripple my range in both my EVs with just a battery upgrade.
With a SVR stiff Boost pack on line I can have my tire smoking and my
range.
So the evolution is on the way.
2004 may be the first year I can write up a formula for a 100 mile EV,
and get it.
Even at that have recharge times as low as we can get simply maximizes
the "In service" time any EV has.
Wayland is having a wonderfull time in a Old Ev that has fading Lead
simply because he can charge it fast and efficiently.
I have Gear that sucks the most it can from a private home onwers Power
sources. Soon I will be attempting much higher power levels.
I am cheering Evercell on and seriously hope that thier NiZn batteries
can go where the high visability Ovonics , Lion, and NiCads and others
are struggling.
I think once they get in the pipe line and are really available in
volume , most of us will make the change, and NOT look back.
Then when we have 100 mile range, and fast recharge and a stiff
controller, we will have a all around Ev that really has very few
excuses.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] asked:
> Is the Tango street legal in the US ?
> Is the Tango available for sale in the US ?
> Where is it available ?
> Price Tag ?
See their web site at http://www.commutercars.com/ , follow the
"Contact" link, and you'll find several email addresses for questions.
I've never seen any suggestion it would not be road legal, and on
their web site you can see pictures that clearly show registration
plates.
--
Lesley Walker
Unix Engineering, EDS New Zealand
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"The secret to getting ahead is getting started. The secret to
getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks
into smaller manageable tasks, and simply starting on the
first one." --- Mark Twain
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John Wayland wrote:
>
> Hello to All,
>
> Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>
> > We don't have very cold weather in Portland, practically never snows.
>
> Uh hummm...Victor, while Portland's winters are mild compared to say, Minnesota
>winters,
> or perhaps compared to the kind of winters you had in your homeland, you're still a
>bit
> off here...perhaps you haven't been living here long enough to realize that our
>recent
> winters have been milder than what is the norm. On the east side near the mouth of
>the
> Columbia Gorge where I live, we usually get an ice storm each year, with temps at
>20-25
> degrees for days on end. When they hit, we lose power for a few days, cars slide
>sideways,
> driving is all but impossible, and attempting to walk across the ice-covered grass
>of your
> yard is like walking on ball bearings! One year, as our house faces directly into
>the icy
> east wind coming out of the gorge, we had 2 inches of ice coating the entire front,
>so
> bad, that the front door would not open! We also, get snow pretty much every year,
>though
> the last two winters have been very mild and the snow was only a dusting. I can
>remember
> one winter about 20 years ago, where we had 11 inches of snow, and most winters we
>get
> anywhere from 2 to 6 inches of snow, and usually on several occasions each winter.
>Also,
> about 10 Novembers ago, we had single digit nighttime temps for the better part of a
> week. In the Pacific Northwest, our weather kind of rotates every ten years or so,
>and
> we're due to have colder winters as as happened in the past.
>
> >From Lee:
>
> >I have found that 1500w is only adequate for a small car in a mild winter.
>
> Hmm, sounds awfully close to what I've been saying. I use a single element in Blue
> Meanie's heater, and just as Lee says, it's fine in this small car in milder cold
>temps,
> but when we get those days of teens up to the mid 20's and with a 35 mph east wind
>huffing
> away, I wish I had those twin elements I put in Red Beastie!
>
> >For most cars, you'll
> >need more like 3000w to match the stock heater's performance.
>
> >From my own post:
>
> >I used twin elements in Red Beastie's heater, and it was pretty
> >much like the factory heater that came with the truck, only of course, it was
>instant-on
> :-)
>
> Portland is pretty temperate compared to the severe winters that other places get,
>but it
> nonetheless, can get quite cold here, unless you think temps in the teens and low
>20's is
> the banana belt...don't forget to factor in that awful wind chill from the east gorge
> winds. I travel quite a bit, and I'll take a 10 degree, low humidity, no wind winter
>any
> day, over a 25 degree day at my place at 95% humidity with a 40 mph east wind!
>
> See Ya.......John Wayland
That snowy Thanksgiving was 1985 out here Wayland... That's 17 years
ago. My step daughter who's a Senior in high school was born that year.
I also remember a VERY cold Raptor # 1 test that Froze my butt off,
gave me a chest cold for the rest of the winter. We did the light rail
from the top of the RT #26 hill to your place in a stiff 25 deg F east
wind. Only to find that we cooked a Czonka contactor instead of the
Raptor.
I do know what the Coulmbia East Freeze is all about. Infact it will
kick in tomorow night for the first time this year. Light that fire You
will need it. I get to move in it Oh fun!
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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Richard Furniss wrote:
> 240v battery pack and the aux motor is rated at 110v... up to now I
> used resistors to drop the voltage to about 80v at about 5 amps...
> This sounds like a job for a IGBT, unless someone else has a simpler
> solution?
An expedient solution would be to get a pair of 48vdc 5amp switching
power supplies. Power them from the 240vdc pack, and wire their outputs
in series. They will have output voltage adjustment pots which can be
cranked down a little if all you really need is 80v.
If the price is right, other voltages may be cheaper. A quick look in
the last Jameco catalog shows their part #202032 (Meanwell S-150-27)
rated 27vdc at 5.6a out for $69.95. Three in series gives you 81v at
5.6a for $209.85.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
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Otmar wrote:
> Richard Furniss is looking for a small high voltage controller for
> running a lower voltage motor. I don't know of anything on the market
> for doing that.
More-or-less standard switching power supplies come to mind. See
previous post.
Another approach is to use standard DC/DC "brick" modules (Vicor or
equivalent).
Still another is to use one of the many industrial AC motor controls,
and use an AC induction motor for the auxiliary device. By picking the
right one, it will run on high votlage DC, and be able to power normal
120vac or 240vac single- or three-phase motors.
These approaches can provide quick "off the shelf" solutions with little
or no engineering.
> I have been considering making a small DC controller for heaters and
> power steering motors for some time. It could be something like a
> very tiny Zilla with output voltage and current adjustable. It would
> not be very hard for me to develop since it can use much of the
> technology that is now used in the Zilla.
>
> For me it would allow a "way too fancy" control of heating elements.
> Possibly with temperature sensors and feedback. I would also like to
> use it to run a low voltage power steering pump directly from the
> high voltage pack.
A fancy controller is serious overkill for a heater. Now, I think an EV
heater controller is needed; but all it really needs to be is a solid
state DC relay, a simple thermostat to switch it on/off to control
temperature, and the safety circuits (power-off relay, overtemp and
overcurrent cutouts, etc.)
> The specs I'm considering are these:
> Input: 48 to 348 V Nom. 27 to 400 V operating. 450V Max. 30 amps max.
> Output: Variable voltage, current limited at 30 amps, 50 amp peak
> optional.
> Approximate size: 3" x 4" x 3" plus heatsink.
>
> Back of the envelope calcs bring the price in around $300. in low
> quantities.
Might I suggest a slight variation? How about producing the 'brains' of
an EV PWM controller, rather like your 'Zilla's "hairball" controller,
but optimized to make it easy for the end user to add the power stage.
Nowdays, it's fairly straightforward to pick a transistor, diode,
capacitor, and shunt suitable for the voltage and current levels
desired. You could provide some typical part values, and a suggested
mechanical layout as well. Then let the user "build his own" controller.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
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> [EMAIL PROTECTED] asked:
> > Is the Tango street legal in the US ?
and I wrote:
> I've never seen any suggestion it would not be road legal, and on
> their web site you can see pictures that clearly show registration
> plates.
Sorry, I had failed to notice until I looked a bit closer that the
Tango's home is in Canada. So those would be Canadian plates.
--
Lesley Walker
Unix Engineering, EDS New Zealand
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"The secret to getting ahead is getting started. The secret to
getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks
into smaller manageable tasks, and simply starting on the
first one." --- Mark Twain
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Hello to All,
Rich Rudman wrote:
> I also remember a VERY cold Raptor # 1 test that Froze my butt off,
> gave me a chest cold for the rest of the winter. We did the light rail
> from the top of the RT #26 hill to your place in a stiff 25 deg F east
> wind. Only to find that we cooked a Czonka contactor instead of the
> Raptor.
> I do know what the Coulmbia East Freeze is all about. Infact it will
> kick in tomorow night for the first time this year. Light that fire You
> will need it. I get to move in it Oh fun!
Yeah, that was a fun day! Thanks for the backup on Portland's often very cold winters.
I
couldn't help but think of Victor when I heard the weather forecast for
Wednesday-Friday for
the Portland metro area, with temps dipping into the teens, and on the east side (that
would be
Wayland territory) the east wind will be huffing away at 30 mph or so...wonderful!
Maybe we
should make Victor wear a tank top and shorts, and strap him to the Wayland
east-facing front
porch until he pleads "Twin ceramic elements!"? OK, just kidding Victor, we love ya,
even if
you are a bit screwed up with Portland weather opinions. I will say this, that temps
this cold
are a bit early and unusual for October. The weather's been weird though, this
October, and
with our extended 'Indian Summer' a week and a half ago it was 80!
See Ya.......John Wayland
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On Monday, October 28, 2002, at 10:38 PM, John Wayland wrote:
Yeah, that was a fun day! Thanks for the backup on Portland's often
very cold winters. I
couldn't help but think of Victor when I heard the weather forecast
for Wednesday-Friday for
the Portland metro area, with temps dipping into the teens, and on the
east side (that would be
Wayland territory) the east wind will be huffing away at 30 mph or
so...wonderful! Maybe we
should make Victor wear a tank top and shorts, and strap him to the
Wayland east-facing front
porch until he pleads "Twin ceramic elements!"? OK, just kidding
Victor, we love ya, even if
you are a bit screwed up with Portland weather opinions. I will say
this, that temps this cold
are a bit early and unusual for October. The weather's been weird
though, this October, and
with our extended 'Indian Summer' a week and a half ago it was 80!
it SNOWED here in Worcester, MA last week. Some stayed on the ground
all day! Talk about weird October weather..... That single heater
element of mine sure heats up my truck's small cab nice and quick
though :-)
Seth
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
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>
> It's a chicken and egg thing. There ARENT any public charging
> facilities here ,because there arent any electric cars. Period. Yeah,
right,
> EVery biz is gunna put in outlets , cuz Bob , and Jack, and Ted has an
> electric? Those are the 3 in my area. Yeea! All in MY area code! Maybe
> the'll be a 4th ,when I get the Sentra back on the road?
>
Steve Clunn wrote
See how they grow . Plant one and before you know it two or three pop up
.
I think the EV charging stations will have to be what ever we put up
ourselves here on the east coast. I never here anything about public
charging here in Florida . Bruce's trips from one station to another show
how much fun traveling with an EV can be. As time goes by I am finding more
places to charge . When somebody ask me about cutting there grass now, I
ask them if they have a outlet I can use to charge my truck while I'm there.
1/2 the water pumps are on 240 and one just put in a 240 50amp RV outlet .
Some are afraid I'll run up there bill and one wanted $5 off there bill. I
don't mess with them, don't really need to . I have some books in the truck
and enjoy reading while getting some amps.
> Reaching the end of the thread: Electricity is common, EVen in CT, it's
> just GETTING it. It's a bummer when yur creeping home on 40 amps ,and
there
> is gobs of it ,just over your head, on those ubicquitus poles, everywhere.
> To get outlets to be OUTlets, so you can access them. Maybe a tax break,
for
> local bizes to put outlets, 120/240 outside their places of business, for
> the electric customer. Make, Paul down at the local garage, and Jim at
True
> Value ,worth his trouble to put them in. Weather any EV's actually show
up,
> would be irrelivent, they would get a tax break.
I think that they are probable trying to figure how to tax them . How will
they get money for roads if everybody drives EV's . Some day there will be
a point were gas cars will be paying for the roads we EV'ers drive on. :-)
To me this seem right as look a the damage gas cars do and we have to pay
for . I the war on terrorism was paid by a gas tax America would by hi
mileage car which would mean less foreign oil .
>That if the folks that levy
> taxes around here would go for it?? Maybe at the Mc Donald's rest stops on
> the CT turnpike? They are about 25 miles apart. If THEY had good 240@50
amp
> outlets? They can charge you twice to feed yur car and yourself. A lot can
> be done with a little to get EV's on the road. Guess I have some homework,
> to do? They did it in CA, though.
maybe ev'ers for each state could collect info on were plugs are in there
state ect and put them on a web site
then we could start having some long distance EVing.
> Just a few thoughts, on Power to the People, here.
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob plugging along.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 5:05 AM
> Subject: PFC-20 & PFC-50 work on public AVCON chargers
>
>
> > I received my PFC-50 back from manzanitamicro.com
> > Rich did an upgrade as well as hear the ticking sound I
> > had heard. He had emailed me that he had resolved both.
> >
> > I was anxious to use my PFC-50. I have gotten spoiled with
> > its flexibility of being able to easily adjust what charge
> > current I want.
> >
> > When Rich had the PFC-50, I had used one of my Zivan
> > chargers (120VAC K2). It works fine but its either on or
> > off (non adjustable).
> >
> > I wanted to test the PFC-50 on an AVCON, so I headed south
> > on highway 101 to the Santa Clara Costco (near the San Jose
> > Airport).
> >
> > I got there after it had closed to keep from having to
> > compete with gas cars in the EV spots. I plugged in using
> > the AVCON adaptor on the EAA merchandise page
> > ( http://eaaev.org ). It drew about 32 AC amps off their
> > 208VAC source just fine for 15 minutes, until I shut it down
> > to go test the Mt. View Costco AVCON. I was 30 out of
> > 100 ahs down.
> >
> > I headed north again (back the way I came), and plugged in
> > at the Mt. View Costco. I was drawing 32 amps AC off their
> > 208VAC source worked fine. I was putting 36.6 amps DC into
> > my 132VDC pack (147VDC surface voltage). I was 30 out of
> > 100 ahs down.
> >
> > Lastly, I went over to Otmar's to turn the PFC-50 all the
> > way up for full power. I was drawing close to 50 amps off
> > Otmar's 220VAC, and getting 72 amps DC into my 132VDC pack
> > (with a surface voltage reading of 150VDC). I was 30 out
> > of 100 ahs down. I let it run for at least 15 minutes
> > while yaking with Otmar.
> >
> > This proves the PFC-50 works fine off an evi ics-200
> > AVCON charger and gives 11 kw when connected to a 220VAC
> > 50 amp source.
> >
> > It is very important that no more than 32 amps AC is drawn
> > from a public AVCON charing head. The AVCON charging head
> > will not trip, but the host's breaker will trip.
> >
> > Tripping the host's breaker is difficult to resolve but
> > worse it leaves the host with a bad taste (dang EVs keep
> > popping breakers!).
> >
> > I have proven the PFC-20 and PFC-50 will work off the public
> > charging. But you have to be careful of your current draw
> > when using the PFC-50, as not to trip the host's breaker.
> >
> > EV drivers now have the ability to fully use the public evi
> > ics-200 AVCON charging. Since the ics-200's circuitry was
> > originaly designed only for automaker's EVs, all other
> > 220 VAC EV chargers the EV conversions were using, were
> > excluded. Zivan chargers will not work with evi ics-200
> > AVCON charging units.
> >
> > EV drivers have a choice.
> > Either the lower cost and lower priced PFC-20, or the full
> > powered PFC-50. But both will run off: 120VAC or 220VAC at
> > home, or off public AVCON charging (using an AVCON adaptor).
> >
> > -Bruce :-zzz
> >
> >
> > =====
> > ' ____
> > ~/__|o\__
> > '@----- @'---(=
> > . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> > . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> > . (originator of the EV ascci art above)
> > =====
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Try using a battery out of a tabletop UPS. Sometimes they get scrapped
because the battery is shot, the charger is shot, the inverter is shot or it
was not big enough for the application.
If the inverter is junk, you can use both the charger and the battery for
the project.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 7:49 AM
Subject: Hobby batteries and charger to play with
> Unlike many on this list I don't have a bench full of things laying around
> that I can just throw together. I do salvage any small electric motors
that
> I can out of dead equipment. Recently my corded Weed Eater fell to
pieces,
> but the motor is still in good shape. I removed the motor and hooked it
up
> to my 12V ICE battery charger and it seems to work fine on DC. Now I'm
> thinking of playing around with one of the kids scooters :-) The problem
is
> I do not have any batteries laying around. What is a good place to find
> some small inexpensive batteries for this type of tinkering? What does it
> take to charge recommended batteries without killing them? The only
thing
> that I currently own is my starter battery charger with a 10amp and 50amp
> setting and a cheapo DVM.
>
> Since building a full blown EV seems like it is still out there a way for
> me, tinkering with electric bikes and scooters is appealing.
>
> damon
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband.
> http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Commuter Cars is in Spokane, Washington; and their intention is to
sell the Tango in the United States. Best bet is to contact Rick Woodbury
and tell him how many you want, and when, and at what price. I believe
they were adding a form to the website www.commutercars.com where
you can do specifically that. Price at the moment is in the neighborhood
of $80k fully dressed for quantity 1.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walker, Lesley R" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 9:35 PM
Subject: RE: Tango
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] asked:
> > > Is the Tango street legal in the US ?
>
> and I wrote:
> > I've never seen any suggestion it would not be road legal, and on
> > their web site you can see pictures that clearly show registration
> > plates.
>
> Sorry, I had failed to notice until I looked a bit closer that the
> Tango's home is in Canada. So those would be Canadian plates.
>
> --
> Lesley Walker
> Unix Engineering, EDS New Zealand
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> "The secret to getting ahead is getting started. The secret to
> getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks
> into smaller manageable tasks, and simply starting on the
> first one." --- Mark Twain
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://shop2.outpost.com/product/3242311
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 3:43 PM
Subject: Fuel Cell Demo at Fry's on AutoMall, Fremont, CA
> I got to see a working demo of a small fuel cell at
> Fry's yesterday. They are selling a kit that consists
> of a small solar panel, a small fuel cell/electrolysis
> unit on a toy *electric* car, and a book that
> describes the technology. I think the price was $129.
>
> The demo used a desk lamp shining on the solar panel
> as the power source. The toy car has 2 small "tanks"
> submerged in distilled water that collect hydrogen and
> oxygen from electrolysis. As far as I can tell, both
> the electrolysis unit and fuel cell unit were on a
> single 1.5"x1.5"x1/4" module enclosed in clear
> Plexiglas. The set up was neat. The car ran on a
> small circular track with the "charging station" on
> one end. It would stop at the charging station to
> recharge the gas tanks.
>
> You could actually see the gases building up thru the
> clear hoses when charging and the gases being used
> slowly when running. Very interesting.
>
> The book has a chart that shows fuel cell efficiency
> of about 40-60% which is only a little better than
> advanced turbine engines. But, nonetheless, it was my
> first experiment looking at a working hydrogen fuel
> cell. As usual, the demo person did not have much
> technical knowledge. Another person and I helped to
> get the demo working for him.
>
> Ed Ang
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When you get there, check the phone book for a map. The book I've seen has
a very good one that matches up well with the web maps which are
confusing.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
(continued from "Rubber-burnin', Fuse-poppin', Clean-Meanin' Machine!")
In a previous episode, our Blue Meanie test pilot found himself "stranded"
in a mall parking lot on a beautiful crisp autumn afternoon in Portland, not
far from the Wayland EV Juice Bar. He was, eventually, rescued by Plasma Boy
himself (sometimes known as Dr. Plasma Boy, but remember, he's not a real
doctor... He does have a degree, IN PLASMA!).
Once on the scene via his Currie electric scooter with a spare SVR 12V
battery bungee-corded to the back, John soon figured out it was not the
DC-DC converter that was off-line but the 200A custom-designed "butterfly"
main pack fuse.
Using a special FBD (fuse bypass device: two 8-gauge "jumper" cables in
series), the car was brought back to life and well enough to limp the few
blocks back home. Given the alligator clip connections and the relatively
light gauge cables, it was best to take it very, very easy. First, though,
we needed to make sure the controller wasn't blown, so we put the car in
neutral, clutch in, and keyed the starter. A quick blip of the throttle
found the controller and motor in good health.
Taking John's advice to heart, I did my best to drive in "Super-Granny"
mode. What punishment for blowing the fuse! Now I was concerned about
overheating the 8 ga. jumper cables and their tentative alligator clips.
This may have been the first time John was able to outrun Blue Meanie on one
of his electric scooters!
Once home, John started taking the car apart, which was very easy since the
fuse was located directly under the new PFC-20 charger with its clever
quick-disconnect mounting system. The fuse case, a clear plastic affair, was
intact but completely blackened with soot and metal globs. It did not catch
fire, but instead did what it was designed to do. After once again poking
fun at me for blowing Blue Meanie's main fuse, John finally remarked "It's
dead, Jim."
We opened the sealed fuse case which made a pop sound as internal pressure
was released. The soot inside smelled particularly fragrant and seemed to
get everywhere. With a little craftwork and perfectionism, the fuse was
replaced with a different type and higher rated 500A time-delay fuse.
However, we had to change the cable ends.
John has quite an impressive and organized assortment of screws, nuts,
washers, domestic and foreign fasteners, prehistoric Datsun parts in little
baggies, one-of-a-pair speaker trim rings, and of course, glinting
gold-plated high-power stereo connectors. Just the right offset gold-plated
lugs were found, which we crimped onto the cable ends and sealed with
hot-glue-type heat shrink tubing for a professional look and for safety.
Everything was lining up perfectly, but one of the cable ends would not fit
over the fuse terminal. The hole was just too small. John decided to use his
bench-top drill press with a twist-bit to enlarge the hole in the cable lug.
This little voice kept saying, apparently only to him, "It's going to bind
and whip around, idiot." Yet, he ignored that little voice and instead opted
to hold the cable by hand while pressing the spinning twist bit into the
existing, but too small hole. Sure enough, the bit bit, then bound, and
instantly transformed the little drill press into a frightening freakish
whipping machine: SMACK SMACK SMACK! We stepped back in horror as the cable
rapidly whipped the steel column. Note: always listen to that little voice
when working around machinery. The cable wasn't appreciably damaged, so I
hogged out the rest of the hole with a Dremel tool and countersink bit, the
way any sane person would.
In short order, Blue Meanie was put back together thanks to the solid
design, resourceful EV surgeon, and his guest assistant/test pilot. We
buttoned it all back up, double and triple-checked the connections, then
charged the pack back up. Again, thanks to the PFC-20, it was all topped up
in a matter of minutes.
I enjoyed another test-pilot drive around the proverbial block. There is
something just inspiring about driving a silent and clean EV through a quiet
neighborhood in crisp fall weather. Nothing says autumn like the sent of
falling leaves, woodstoves, and tire smoke.
--
Geoff Shepherd
'98 Factory Ford Ranger EV
'00 Honda Insight
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well there is one disadvantage of breaking the pack in the middle when using
the cable and a wire to connect a Rudman Reg when the battery is on the
other side of the breaker. Looks like I have to use two dedicated wires.
When the main power is turned off 116v goes through it. I thought the
breaker was sticking. Usually when that happens I turn something on and it
breaks the circuit. WRONG. The 16 gauge wire was even enough to run the
lights and move the car with the Ebrake on, as well as toast the reg. It
might still work haven't checked it yet. Put 132v through another one(MK I)
and it smoked but still worked afterword. Now this is a MK I. I thought
the MK II just didn't have enough capacity because it was blowing fuses.
DUH. I noticed the 116v before and tried to figure it out. Then it went
away. DUH. I even watched the fuses melt. DUH. Lawrence
Rhodes....Electricity will find a way to complete a
circuit..............Just find a stupid guy.........Keep one hand in your
pocket.....
--- End Message ---
