EV Digest 2403
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: RAV4 EV purchase
by josh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Ford Ranger EV re-lease.
by josh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Newbie question re: Rabbit conversions an Stuff
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) OT: Bus crash (was auction - the links)
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Newbie question re: Rabbit conversions
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Flooded 6v to NiZn 12v comparison (was: Evercel group buy?)
by "Jon \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Sparrow Updates
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: RAV4 EV purchase
by "Vince" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Comutacar car motor wanted: dead or alive
by jon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: OT: Bus crash (was auction - the links)
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: OT: Bus crash (was auction - the links)
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) An embarassing admission & Q about CE
by Sharkey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Comutacar car motor wanted: dead or alive
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) EMeter and Palm device
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Sparrow Updates
by "Kevin Coughlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EMeter and Palm device
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: EMeter and Palm device
by "Ralph Merwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: EMeter and Palm device
by "Ralph Merwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Emeter and Palm devices
by "Chuck Alldlrin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Bus crash (was auction - the links)
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Newbie question re: Rabbit conversions
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
>> What options Euro customer has to get RAV4 EV at all?
>
>Same as the folks in the rest of the 49 U.S. states.
>
>Fudge it.
>Vince
I will be interested to see how this plays out.
Putting aside financing stuff, isn't this a Toyota question? It is
they who refuse to make the car available to consumers outside
California, not any government body (though I suppose there could be
some legalities that come into play of which I'm unaware of expanding
outside Cal.).
There was that one guy who got one into Hawaii, and probably many whom
we don't hear about, who lie and say they are fleet (i.e. company)
purchasers when really all they want is the car, at their homes. So,
when you say "fudge it" perhaps it would be useful to clarify for this
person that is perhaps one way to fudget it.
If-when this car is successfully shipped and installed in Europe, what
then? How will repairs or service be made as-when necessary? If a
major part, such as a battery pack, needs replacing, what then?
These are the questions I'd have. But for a determined buyer with
sufficient funds, perhaps it would be possible.
The advice given to put this question on the yahoo groups did also
seem reasonable.
jl
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What is the range on those vehicles, approximately?
jl
On Sun, 3 Nov 2002 01:38:13 -0800, you wrote:
>Ford Ranger EV
>
> The Ford Ranger EV is available only in selected locations. There are
>approximately 50 Ford EV certified dealers across the U.S. and Canada.
>
> Special re-lease opportunity in California. California based NiMH battery
>equipped vehicles coming off of lease will be refurbished and remarketed to
>new lease customers for a 36-month lease term at $449 per month. Click here
>for a list of available vehicles.
>Lease extensions are now available for EV Ranger lessees.
>Ranger EV Lease Limited warranty will cover both re-leased and lease
>extension vehicles.
>For more information contact Connie Huff at 1-800-344-6706 or by email at
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: Newbie question re: Rabbit conversions
> There are two things which had made the Rabbit a good
> candidate: availability of spare parts, and Mike Brown
> adopting this model and spelling out EXACTLY how to do
> a conversion with it.
> As time goes on, there will be fewer spare parts.
> But with the tremendous volume of Rabbits/Jettas, it
> hasn't been the issue it _could have_ been by now. As
> far as whether it's a good donor, look at what our
> family is going through... the wife says it has
> paper-thin doors, and no airbag, while it has run like
> a trooper. So it depends on which is a higher
> priority.
> As far as a successor, that will occur when someone
> steps up to the plate with a well-documented version
> of the VoltsRabbit Owner's Manual"; something I hope
> to do with the Civic. (;-p
>
> --- Robert Nansel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Are VW Rabbit conversions still a viable route to a
> > good EV? I ask because
> > both Brant's book and the Convert It! manual say
> > that cars older than ten
> > years might not be good donor prospects, and (other
> > than Cabrios) all those
> > Rabbits out there are now quite long in the tooth by
> > this rule.
> >
> > I like the clean design of the Voltsrabbit
> > conversion, though it is a bit
> > pricey, which gives me pause -- does it make sense
> > to sink $10k into a
> > chassis 17 or more years old? Is there a logical
> > successor vehicle to the
> > Rabbit still in production?
> >
> > -RLN
> >
> Hi EVerybody;
OK rattled my cage on this one. Have a Rabbit, an 82 that I have
been driving for 4 years as an electric, with over 55 thousand miles on it,
and 3 sets of cells so far. I went with the Rabbit, because I had had Diesel
Rabbits, for years, replaced the klast of a long line of VW Beatles, drove
them for 25 years, as a daily driver to get to all the enchanting places i
hafta go in my life. After dealing with freezing heaters, swallowed #3
exhaust valves, piston tops separating in flite broken crankshafts,
axphiucating exhaust leaks in the "heating" systems, anf the general, as the
years wore on, CHANGING sutily, parts from year to yeas , so they wern't the
old one size fits all, I was ready to come out of the 30's automobile wise,
I went out and bought a 79 Diesel Rabbit for 400 bux, Oh JOY! Heat!
Defroster, warms up ON A GUAGE inside the cabin! Has a fuel guage, real
headlites, good brakes, comfy seats. Nervanna! For awile, eventually it got
hard to start, so re rang it, and while into the engine, replaced the
bearing shells, valves OK, put it all back togetrher, and off and running,
again. It was sorta like the old beatle, but a MUCH more robust engine. One
of the disenchanting thing was the rust around the lower left part of the
windshield, and as the years wore on having to lift the door up to close it
as the post had turned to mulch. In my Rabbit research, the problem sorta
was taken care of by the 82 year, so stay away from the real old ones,
unless yu live somewhere it doesn't rain, EVer!
The one I have ,now,was given to me by a friend, that his garage guy had
told him the engine was shot. Had another engine an' 5 speed that I poped in
it, and got it going again. So easy! EVerything fits like the old beatles.
But a greasy, Messy job. I feel like J.W. about this ICE crap now, I see ,my
kids with a V-8 pulled down on the bench, and want to walk, run, away,
whereas I woulda dove into it years ago.
Finally, wanted to DO something about an electric, so stripped out the
Rabbit, CLEANED EVerything.,sprayed down the crud from it's Diseasel Daze,
repainted the engine room, fresh silver. Makes ya feel better to work on, yu
know when J. Wayland pops the hood and yu go "AHHH!" so CLEAN! Saber saw in
hand, sawed out the trunk where the spare tire goes, 9 batteries go in
there, dropped down just below the modesty panel in back, fit between the
frame rails great.There is a massive crossmember in fromt of the battery box
which will slow the batteries down a bit if yu run into anything at speed.
Sawed out where the back seat went, got 5 more there, dropped down so yu
could put the seat back again, I havent. Up front, got two along the
firewall on pass side and, 4 more along the sill where the radiator used to
rest, one set transversly, to clear the tranny. THERE! 20 in all. Was
looking at John or David's specs, T-145@ 72 lbs EACH, that means I have a
STAGGERING 1440 lbs of Lead in that poor car!! Not counting the accessery
battery, another 20 or so! Scary! Yu bet! But it is built for a mission, to
get to the train, my OTHER electric, day in day out, if I can't plug it in
at work.I can still go the 450 foot climb to get home from Sea leval New
Haven. I drive it hard, keeping up with traffic on the CT turnpike 65-70mph,
9" motor is happy as well as the Rapture controller. Of course I have custom
Spring Specialties springs up fromt, extra 300 lift I asked for, and stock
BMW 526 rear springs and shocks, bolt into the Rabbit. As well as bigger
Jetta drums in back.I should have more discs up front, though. BTW the car
weighs 3300 lbs on a truk scale! I built this leviathan to prove a point,
EV's can work. But to someone just starting, a reasonable commute, NOT 56
miles RT, but say, 15 or 20, put 8 volts battery in Rabbit, NOT under the
back seat! Six fit nice in the hood area and 9 in the trunk.,....there yu
go, a nice 120 volt car, and somewhere near GVW, too??
One of my biggest beefs with Rabbits is that they LEAK! @#$%^^ floors
are perpetually wet, if it rains regularly, and yu get in the habit on a
nice day, chocking the doors open to dry things out I have never had a damn
VW that didn't LEAK, Jetta, Rabbit ,beatle, so yu KNOW they are rotting away
as you drive. Water retained by that hairy underlayment under the carepet!
Thats why I sorta look longingly at my Nissan Sentra as a conversion, Floors
are DRY in the rain! Japanese Auto engineers seem to have solved this
sillyness that the Germans are at a loss for.
Dispite all this, the Rabbit dous offer a great platform to hack up, for
a beginner, if yu trash it too badly, somebody will give you another, I have
3 Rabbits I was given, over the years, around here they are considered
throway cars." Oh, Bob, It's up at my Moms' place wouldya go take it,
PLEASE, She'll give ya the key" And ya drive it home.
But all this Evercell stuff looks promising. Won't hafta torture a car
with 1400 lbs of dead weight. 800 lbs of EVercells could fit in a Rabbit? Oh
the hell with it! Go for a Sentra, with AC ,airbags and other amenities not
on the rabbit.Or a Civie, or a Saturn, something a bit newer.AND come in
under GVW. Am thinking down the road on this one. A clean, contemporary car,
enough juice to actually GO somewhere and when it's cold, not hafta worry
about getting home.Just a few thoughts from a long time Rabbit pilot.
Seeya My 1440 lbs worth
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 3 Nov 2002 at 12:32, Bob Rice wrote:
> Just be their
> SIZE, they can help protect the passengers, except when they go up against
> trains and errent 18 wheelers.
You'd think so, but not necessarily. In fact many bus interiors are some of
the worst environments for crash survival, with lots of small-radius metal
edges and no seatbelts (as if you could even get the kids to wear them).
If there's any crash-energy absorption, it's probably in the other vehicle
in the collision (like a big truck, a bus will crush small cars and murder
their passengers). I suspect that, in a barrier crash, there would be a lot
of injuries and possibly deaths in the bus.
Actually, I would think that proper location of battery modules in an E-bus
could improve its crashworthiness by providing better crash-energy
absorption. Also, there's no liquid fuel to (possibly) ignite. Chances of
ignition are probably fairly low with the diesel fuel usually used, but I
wonder about lpg- and lng-fueled buses.
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve Clunn wrote
I had one of these show up on my front lawn two weeks ago. Wifes friend's
son's car . He left it by the side of the road (17 year old ) for a few day
now its got broken windows/flat tires but the body looks fine . Its a 85 GTI
(what ever that means) It has a 5 speed wiht new clutch. I think he'd be
happy with $50 for it .
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sharkey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: Newbie question re: Rabbit conversions
>
> Gotta comment in this one...
>
> Are Rabbits still a good bet for conversions? YES, definitely!!! While the
> dealerships may not still stock all of the parts you may need to keep a
20+
> year-old Rabbit in showroom condition, there are literally warehouses
> *full* of aftermarket performance and restoration parts, including
> suspension and brake upgrades, which are important to EV conversions. The
> local Pic-n-Pull wrecking yard here has more than 20 Rabbit bodies in
> stock, and they get more in almost every week. These cars aren't
considered
> cream-of-the-crop for the auto salvage brokers, so you can usually walk
out
> of the yard with an armload of parts for next to nothing.
> The reason the "Cabrio" was mentioned, is that the Cabriolet remained
> virtually unchanged from 1975 until 1993, so all of the parts are
> interchangeable. "Cabrio" refers to post-1993 VW convertibles, and they
are
> of a different design than the previous models. Virtually all of the parts
> from a pre-1994 Cabriolet are interchangeable with the 1975-1984 Rabbits
> (with the obvious exceptions).
> On the subject of parts interchangeability, there is a vast array of parts
> swaps possible in the water-cooled VW/Audi/Porsche platforms. Once you
have
> a solid Rabbit chassis (no rust, no collision damage), you'll have no
limit
> to the number of upgrades, retrofits, swaps and customization possible
> using parts form the other vehicles in the VW stables. Most of it is
> bolt-up. Try that with a Camaro...
> If you're paranoid about parts availability, consider converting an A2
> chassis, perhaps the Golf, which replaced the Rabbit. The Electro
> Automotive kit may not be a bolt in for the A2 chassis, but there is
> virtually no difference in the transmission, adapter plate, clutch hub,
> etc, they are all the same. There are still a large number of A2 vehicles
> on the road, parts for them are even easier than the A1 (Rabbit, Jetta)
> chassis.
> Remember, no matter which platform you decide to use to build an EV, the
> finished product will likely not be worth as much as you put into it
during
> the conversion process. A $10k converted Rabbit should only be considered
> if you will want and use the car yourself. Resale on EV's is typically
> pretty dismal.
> Finally, if you want to know if there is any enthusiast interest in the VW
> Rabbit, I suggest you visit the A1 forum on the VW Vortex, where you'll
> find a large committed and helpful group of members who think that the
> driving experience of the Rabbit is superior to any econo-box
> transportation made before or since...
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeroforum?id=11 Oh yes, the battle cry of the
> Rabbit crowd is: Die Honda!!! (BTW, the Vortex seems to be down this
> evening, try again tomorrow morning.)
>
> -S
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't think anyone really knows. Hypothesis is yes.
S.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: Flooded 6v to NiZn 12v comparison (was: Evercel group buy?)
> I forgot to ask about cycle life.
> Lead acids are around 550 cycles at 80 % DOD, but increase significantly
> with
> less than 80 % DOD.
> Do NiZn have similar increases in cycle life with less than 80 % DOD ?
>
> On Fri, 1 Nov 2002 21:33:50 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > Ok, so I know that NiZn is much much better than Lead, but what about
> > the
> > need for individual special chargers instead of one large standard
> > such
> > as a Lester ??
> >
> > On Fri, 01 Nov 2002 10:36:06 -0700 John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > writes:
> > > Hello to All,
> > >
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >
> > > > Bill,
> > > >
> > > > Trojan T-145 stats:
> > > > RC-25 = 530min C/20 = 244ah 6v 10-3/8"x7-1/8"x11-5/8"
> > > 72.0lb
> > > > C/2 = 158ah
> > > >
> > > > Evercel MB80-12-8 stats:
> > > > RC-25 = ?min C/1(?) = 64ah 12v 10-1/4"x5-7/8"x7-7/8"
> > > 36.4lb
> > > >
> > > > So, for every two batteries (2x6v series, 2x12v parallel) you
> > > have:
> > > > 6v C/2 = 158ah 12v 144lb
> > > > 12v C/2 = 128ah 12v 73lb
> > > >
> > >
> > > Note that 144 lbs. of golf car lead acid batteries gives a
> > 'useable'
> > > 158 ahrs, while half
> > > that weight in Evercells gives 128 ahrs. At the C/1 rate, which
> > the
> > > golf car battery
> > > manufacturers don't even want to talk about, I bet that half the
> > > weight in Evercells
> > > matches or exceeds the ahrs of the lead acid batteries. Consider
> > the
> > > same comparison at
> > > freezing or below outside temperatures, and the Evercells will
> > > simply blow away the golf
> > > car lead acid batteries. Also keep in mind, that it is basically
> > > impossible to fit enough
> > > 6V golf car batteries in a small car to get up to higher voltages,
> >
> > > but this is easily done
> > > with the light weight 12V Evercell modules.
> > >
> > > See Ya......John Wayland
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
> > Only $9.95 per month!
> > Visit www.juno.com
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
> Only $9.95 per month!
> Visit www.juno.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, I've just finished replacing the bearings in the rear axle on my
Sparrow, and adding fans to the Reg MKII"s, and upgraded the EMeter to have
RS-232, and added battery heaters, and replaced the brake shoes with
low-squeek ones, and upgraded the Zivan to a V9 chip, and added a temp
probe to the Zivan.
After many days of hard labor, and the car being down for 3 weeks, I took
it out for a test drive tonight! After 8 miles the axle broke free of the
wheel hub, spinning freely.
I got a ride back home, and I'm going to meet the tow truck in a few
minutes. He even knows how to deal with the Sparrow, as he is the one that
towed it when the belt broke.
Can you say disgusted boys and girls?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:Cougar@;CasaDelGato.Com
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi josh,
> There was that one guy who got one into Hawaii, and probably many whom
> we don't hear about, who lie and say they are fleet (i.e. company)
> purchasers when really all they want is the car, at their homes.
>From what I understand, he merely utilized someone else's address in Calif. A
>relative perhaps ? So, he avoided the double taxation, but
had to have the charger installed then removed and installed in Hawaii. You don't have
to be a fleet buyer to purchase in Calif.
> So, when you say "fudge it" perhaps it would be useful to clarify for
> this person that is perhaps one way to fudget it.
Depends whether you're referring to in or outside the U.S. and whether you're
referring to buying one new from Toyota or buying one
from an existing owner. Variables.
> If-when this car is successfully shipped and installed in Europe, what
> then? How will repairs or service be made as-when necessary? If a
> major part, such as a battery pack, needs replacing, what then?
I suppose one could take it to a Toyota dealer and claim you had been relocated to
Europe from Calif. It would be under warranty.
Vince
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I finally got around to checking these brakes out: The problem is that
thay are:
1) 5 Lug (comutacars are 4 lug)
2) They are 10". That is too big.
But, it looks like Northern has some 7" drum brakes that might be
a replacement.
Jon
On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, Lee Hart wrote:
> Here's a picture and description from Northern Tool's website. Note that
> it's long, and probably will get split between lines. Splice it all
> together, or just go to their main page and click on "trailer brakes".
>
>
>http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&langId=-1&catalogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=801&categoryId=166844
>
> jon wrote:
>
> > Right on! I'd love to ditch those nasty drum "brakes". Do you have a
> > part number?
>
> Lee Hart wrote:
> >> Just before I sold my ComutaVan, I noticed that trailer parts places
> >> (specifically Northern Tool) was carrying a trailer disk brake.
> >> Hydraulic actuated, aluminum caliper, stainless steel rotor, and
> >> pretty water resistant (so you could back it into the lake). It
> >> bolted right on in place of standard trailer brake. Perhaps they would
> >> be a good upgrade?
>
--
Jon Kenneke KA7PGB
Kenneke Communications
http://www.kenneke.com
Radio Takena KTK
Listen at: http://www.live365.com/stations/kenneke
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ametek supplies components for bus fleets around the US and world.
Some bus fleets exclusively demand our BLDC motors for long service
life. I have 3 kids and think it is discuraging to know that
the school fleets demand the lowest cost components.
So if they want cheap blowers and pumps I would imagine
the same is so for the rest of the bus components.
I am not real concerned about neighborhood pick ups, but when
I see a bus on the interstate I am concerned.
I would think a healthy battery pack underneath would be
a nice crumple zone (as opposed to my kids).
Maybe Seth could throw in his 2 cents worth on bus design.
Rod
David Roden (Akron OH USA) wrote:
On 3 Nov 2002 at 12:32, Bob Rice wrote:
Just be their
SIZE, they can help protect the passengers, except when they go up against
trains and errent 18 wheelers.
You'd think so, but not necessarily. In fact many bus interiors are some of
the worst environments for crash survival, with lots of small-radius metal
edges and no seatbelts (as if you could even get the kids to wear them).
If there's any crash-energy absorption, it's probably in the other vehicle
in the collision (like a big truck, a bus will crush small cars and murder
their passengers). I suspect that, in a barrier crash, there would be a lot
of injuries and possibly deaths in the bus.
Actually, I would think that proper location of battery modules in an E-bus
could improve its crashworthiness by providing better crash-energy
absorption. Also, there's no liquid fuel to (possibly) ignite. Chances of
ignition are probably fairly low with the diesel fuel usually used, but I
wonder about lpg- and lng-fueled buses.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would definitely say that for a school bus, cost is very important at
least for recently manufactured buses. I heard that some impact
testing/simulation for the EV buses from BlueBird was done. The rest of
the buses are of low build quality IMHO, unless you like silicone and
self tapping screws. Switchgear sometimes won't make it 5000 miles. Not
that many heavy and medium duty vehicle can hold a candle to most cars.
There are some exceptions, often with European names.
I hear that the older school buses, like Gillig (which makes higher end
coaches now) were much more robust and had better build quality. Some
are still in use, where road salt is not.
I think that the fact that they are pretty well regulated, very slow,
more massive than most things they hit, driven by (on paper) better
trained drivers and painted yellow with retroreflective tape keeps them
pretty safe. State by state regulations dictate most equipment, like
location of escape hatches. California and NY buses have some of the
more stringent regulations, it seems.
A few tons of lead slung under a bus can help with the handling (think
of the CG on a high floor bus) and reduce intrusion in a side impact, if
equipped with inertia safety switches and gel batteries. IIRC, roof
crush tests are performed taking GVW into account, so on paper there is
no disadvantage, although roof crush is a pretty optimistic scenario,
like most heavy duty vehicle testing. Don't get me started on diesel
fuel tank rupture testing...
Seth
Rod Hower wrote:
>
> Ametek supplies components for bus fleets around the US and world.
> Some bus fleets exclusively demand our BLDC motors for long service
> life. I have 3 kids and think it is discuraging to know that
> the school fleets demand the lowest cost components.
> So if they want cheap blowers and pumps I would imagine
> the same is so for the rest of the bus components.
> I am not real concerned about neighborhood pick ups, but when
> I see a bus on the interstate I am concerned.
> I would think a healthy battery pack underneath would be
> a nice crumple zone (as opposed to my kids).
> Maybe Seth could throw in his 2 cents worth on bus design.
> Rod
>
> David Roden (Akron OH USA) wrote:
> > On 3 Nov 2002 at 12:32, Bob Rice wrote:
> >
--
vze3v25q@verizondotnet
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First, I have to admit that I don't read every post on this list, in fact,
I don't even see every post. I'm signed up for "web access only, no e-mail"
which means that I read the archives (usually on Yahoo) and just pick out
the messages or complete threads that interest me.
The reson that this is coming up now is that I remember several threads
about software for Windows CE that could be used for accumulating data from
an E-meter/Link 10. Previously, I did this using a laptop, but as of today
I'm the owner of a Sharp Mobilon HC-4100, and I'm thinking it would be the
perfect companion for logging that info from the EV's Link 10.
So, how 'bout it, anyone want to recap the topic, or send along some
pointers? I did a search in the Yahoo archives, but CE returned a
kazilllion results, and Windows did the same, none of them what I was
looking for. Also searched the Crest archives for the last 12 months, and
didn't find anything....
-S
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jon wrote:
> I finally got around to checking these brakes out: The problem is that
> thay are:
>
> 1) 5 Lug (comutacars are 4 lug)
> 2) They are 10". That is too big.
My ComutaVan had 5-bolt 13" wheels with 7" drum brakes. The 10" disks
were a bolt-on replacement and fit just fine.
> But, it looks like Northern has some 7" drum brakes that might be
> a replacement.
Yes. The ComutaCar brakes were basically trailer brakes.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
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So I have an EMeter with RS-232 output.
I have a Handspring Visor Pro, with an RS-232 cradle.
I have the EVDash software loaded on the Visor.
Connect everything together, and .... nothing.
Now, how do I get it to actually receive data from the EMeter?
Is there an EMeter setting that needs to be set?
Will EVDash work with a Handspring Visor?
Or am I just having a really bad day?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:Cougar@;CasaDelGato.Com
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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You know what? Maybe you should investigate a new hobby.... like WWII
armor.... Sparrows just don't seem to be your strong point, even when you
are going all out to do it the right way.
Maybe you just need a little more duct tape.... you don't use it on the
Sparrow, and see what happens?
Now... the big question, all jokes aside....
For the 8 miles.... did you notice improvements in brake draglessness, or
straight alignedness?
My own automotive issues? I thought my rear brakes were due for shoes on my
car - since I had almost no e-brake..... turns out the shoes are fine....
but somebody never connected the e-brake cable on the right side. Once that
was done and adjusted, I have a proper emergency stopping tool again. I also
found an advantage for a 4 wheeled vehicle over a 3 wheeled one.....
After the shoes came flying out willy nilly in a flurry of springs.... I was
able to look at the OTHER side, and put it back together correctly.
Kevin Coughlin
Snohomish, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 4:36 PM
Subject: Sparrow Updates
> Well, I've just finished replacing the bearings in the rear axle on my
> Sparrow, and adding fans to the Reg MKII"s, and upgraded the EMeter to
have
> RS-232, and added battery heaters, and replaced the brake shoes with
> low-squeek ones, and upgraded the Zivan to a V9 chip, and added a temp
> probe to the Zivan.
> After many days of hard labor, and the car being down for 3 weeks, I took
> it out for a test drive tonight! After 8 miles the axle broke free of the
> wheel hub, spinning freely.
> I got a ride back home, and I'm going to meet the tow truck in a few
> minutes. He even knows how to deal with the Sparrow, as he is the one
that
> towed it when the belt broke.
>
> Can you say disgusted boys and girls?
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:Cougar@;CasaDelGato.Com
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
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The emeter puts out data every second.
There is no way to turn it off.
Check it with an LED across pins 3 and 5 on the DB-9 on the back of the
meter.
Check the cable to the cradle the same way.
Make sure the data is coming in the RX data pin on the display device.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 7:59 PM
Subject: EMeter and Palm device
> So I have an EMeter with RS-232 output.
> I have a Handspring Visor Pro, with an RS-232 cradle.
> I have the EVDash software loaded on the Visor.
> Connect everything together, and .... nothing.
> Now, how do I get it to actually receive data from the EMeter?
> Is there an EMeter setting that needs to be set?
> Will EVDash work with a Handspring Visor?
>
> Or am I just having a really bad day?
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:Cougar@;CasaDelGato.Com
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
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John G. Lussmyer writes:
>
> So I have an EMeter with RS-232 output.
> I have a Handspring Visor Pro, with an RS-232 cradle.
> I have the EVDash software loaded on the Visor.
> Connect everything together, and .... nothing.
> Now, how do I get it to actually receive data from the EMeter?
> Is there an EMeter setting that needs to be set?
> Will EVDash work with a Handspring Visor?
John,
The E-Meter always spits data out the RS-232 port, nothing to
configure.
If I remember correctly, the Visor serial cradle expects the device
connected to the serial cable to drive one or more of the control
signals, from which the cradle gets power to convert the signal
from +/-12v to 0-5v. I've been meaning to fix my serial cradle to
get power from the Visor, but haven't gotten to it yet.
Ralph
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> John G. Lussmyer writes:
> >
> > So I have an EMeter with RS-232 output.
> > I have a Handspring Visor Pro, with an RS-232 cradle.
> > I have the EVDash software loaded on the Visor.
> > Connect everything together, and .... nothing.
> > Now, how do I get it to actually receive data from the EMeter?
> > Is there an EMeter setting that needs to be set?
> > Will EVDash work with a Handspring Visor?
>
> The E-Meter always spits data out the RS-232 port, nothing to
> configure.
>
> If I remember correctly, the Visor serial cradle expects the device
> connected to the serial cable to drive one or more of the control
> signals, from which the cradle gets power to convert the signal
> from +/-12v to 0-5v. I've been meaning to fix my serial cradle to
> get power from the Visor, but haven't gotten to it yet.
I forgot to mention that the E-Meter doesn't drive any of these control
signals.
Ralph
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David Roden wrote:
>
> You'd think so, but not necessarily. In fact many bus
interiors are some of
> the worst environments for crash survival, with lots of
small-radius metal
> edges and no seatbelts (as if you could even get the kids to
wear them).
This is something I've started to get more into tune with as I've
ridden mass transit buses down through the years, and have also
thought of as a safety issue on school buses - no seatbelts. If
the bus I'm riding on hits a wall or barrier, my head and face
are going to meet that seat in front of me, and some of those
seatbacks have metal anti-scuff protectors on the back of them.
Or if I'm sitting on one of those sideways seats near the front
or near the back door, I'll go sliding sideways, along with
everyone else, till I meet something that stops me in a probably
not very-civilized fashion. Heck, it's hard enough to keep from
sliding sideways even on a moderate brake. Also another one is
the BIG CRUSH - everybody standing in the aisle during commute
time. So I'm starting to have some doubts about my former
feelings of safety in a nice big bus.
Several years ago, I think it was here in California (ie. not a
federal regulation attempt) there was an attempt to regulate
seatbelts into school buses, but of course, that never actually
came to pass...
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
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Robert Nansel wrote:
> Are VW Rabbit conversions still a viable route to a good EV? I
ask because
> both Brant's book and the Convert It! manual say that cars
older than ten
> years might not be good donor prospects, and (other than
Cabrios) all those
> Rabbits out there are now quite long in the tooth by this rule.
>
> I like the clean design of the Voltsrabbit conversion, though
it is a bit
> pricey, which gives me pause -- does it make sense to sink $10k
into a
> chassis 17 or more years old? Is there a logical successor
vehicle to the
> Rabbit still in production?
As of 1993, when I was looking for a way to own and drive an EV,
I had driven several conversion EVs (too early for the OEMs in
all their delayin', and I couldn't have had one at my apt
anyways, as it turns out). About that time, the Cornells (Scott
and Anna) offered me a test drive in Anna's cherry EV Rabbit that
they had converted using the battery racks and some other items
(motor adapter...?) available at ElectroAutomotive. Anna's car
really struck me as a nice usable EV that rode well, handled
reasonably well, had good carrying capacity, four seats, could
more or less get out of its own way, etc. It was not a lead
sled, nor a high-performance short range EV. In short, more or
less a regular small car, except that it was electric. Something
that I could drive many many years, and have enough practicality
and range to get me into town from my renewable-energy
off-the-grid place out in the country (that's the next big
project, if I ever get there).
So while originally I was more enamored of the idea of converting
a mid-80s Honda Civic or somesuch, driving Anna's car made me
realize that for my skill level, doing a Rabbit and using the
ElectroAutomotive VoltsRabbit kit was most likely going to get me
into an EV and a step in the direction of where I want to go.
So in April 1994, I found an '80 Rabbit diesel in pretty good
condition in the Sunset district in San Francisco (it was stated
"mint" in the newspaper ad, but upon closer inspection, it had
some rust in one of the fenders). I drove it for a few months as
a diesel (50mpg highway!) to see how I could tolerate the
chassis, and that went ok. I certainly knew I had a 14 year old
chassis, but felt that since the vehicle was basically in pretty
good shape, and that there should be a lot of Rabbit parts to
replace things that wore out, it wasn't so much of an issue.
Besides, I had just given up my '68 Bug that I had driven for 15
years, so the concept of a in-the-dash fan and such was quite an
update!
So a fellow EV'er (Preston McCoy) and I undertook the VoltsRabbit
conversion, and with the step-by-step installation guide
instructions, and Preston's experience, skill and help, and some
modifications to the kit, the Rabbit rolled out of the garage
some three months later (now Oct) as an electric. Got 'er done,
and the car is still humming happily down the road some seven to
eight years later. Also got my mug in HomePower (the writeup is
in issues 51-53, but the CD has the wrong pictures).
The cost to get the car rolling out the door was about $10K,
including the cost of the donor car ($1600), batteries, and
RUSSCO heater.
There were only two real problems with the VoltsRabbit kit. One
was the vacuum pump system, and the other was the Curtis 1221B
controller. We really never got the vacuum system worked out,
and down through the years I have learned what it's probably
going to take to set up a nice, QUIET system, and it's on my
things_to_do list (I look forward to it as a fun project). The
car is certainly driveable without the power assist for the
brakes - you just have to get used to it, and I can now even
switch between vehicles with power assist and this vehicle, and
not produce any front nose-stands. The controller became too hot
and was operating without much motor-amp headroom on the
up-and-down Marin territory that I drive, so it failed after a
year. I upgraded to a 1231C, rearranged the controller mount
situation so that the controller hangs upside down off the stock
Curtis heatsink, which itself has two ~4-in fans running on top.
This arrangement never gets hot, even in 100+ temps, and the
controller is happy-as-a-clam after seven years.
That said, this is a custom car. I have spent a fair amount of
time the last several years tinkering with it, upgrading it, and
the like. Batteries are a steep learning curve, and require lots
of TLC. But it's an educational experience too. I've learned a
lot of skills and knowledge, much of which can be applied to the
next adventure (such as living off-the-grid waaay out in the
country).
One thing I have been rather disappointed about is parts
availability. The dealer here in Marin (Sonnen VW) does not have
a good record in finding parts for an '80 Rabbit. Bumper trim,
door locks, window cranks, right-side mirror - those kind of
things that won't likely stop a car from running, but
nevertheless need to be kept up and had to have a nice vehicle
are "not available". I am actually rather skittish when klutzy
passengers roll that window crank in a hurry - "please don't
break it", I think to myself.
Sharkey writes:
> Finally, if you want to know if there is any enthusiast
interest in the VW
> Rabbit, I suggest you visit the A1 forum on the VW Vortex,
where you'll
> find a large committed and helpful group of members who think
that the
> driving experience of the Rabbit is superior to any econo-box
> transportation made before or since...
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeroforum?id=11 Oh yes, the battle
cry of the
> Rabbit crowd is: Die Honda!!! (BTW, the Vortex seems to be down
this
> evening, try again tomorrow morning.)
Thanks for the pointer! You know, it seems like when I read
JCWhitney catalogs in my VW Bug 10 to 20 years ago, the best
parts selection was for the water-cooled VWs (Rabbits, Dashers,
Sciroccos, Cabriolets and Golfs were pretty new then). Now that
I have my "watercooled" chassis (or at least a few years ago),
the situation seems reversed - page after page in their VW
catalog for the aircooled vehicles. (Can never be on the right
side of the fence!) So pointers to parts resources (like getting
that window crank in tan rather than only in black), are
appreciated. I still see a lot of Rabbits tooling around, but it
just really isn't in the interests of VW and its dealers to keep
them going. Gotta sell new cars! All this stuff's gotta hit the
dump eventually - geez! Also, the autodump here in cherry Marin
rarely had Rabbits (at least when I called), and now it is gone
all together - time to make the drive over to East Bay or Central
Valley (that last is a bit beyond the range of my Rabbit, and
takes a good chunk out of a day).
I think if I was to do another conversion here in 2002, I'd
probably shoot for a 90s vehicle. Another interesting approach
that some are getting into would be to find an Insight with a
trashed engine, or a Prius, and get into the more modern and
efficient chassis and drivetrain scene, plus current in the parts
department. That Insight would certainly make a cool-looking EV
too!
If ElectroAutomotive could come up with a step-by-step conversion
kit for a 90s vehicle, I think that could help a fair number of
people who would want to enter the EV scene. However, that's a
risky endeavor for ElectroAutomotive, given the conversion market
and current climate, and takes a whole lot of energy, time and
financial commitment.
By the way, Bob Rice writes:
> One of my biggest beefs with Rabbits is that they LEAK!
@#$%^^ floors
> are perpetually wet, if it rains regularly, and yu get in the
habit on a
> nice day, chocking the doors open to dry things out I have
never had a damn
> VW that didn't LEAK, Jetta, Rabbit ,beatle, so yu KNOW they are
rotting away
> as you drive. Water retained by that hairy underlayment under
the carepet!
> Thats why I sorta look longingly at my Nissan Sentra as a
conversion, Floors
> are DRY in the rain! Japanese Auto engineers seem to have
solved this
> sillyness that the Germans are at a loss for.
I've never had a leakage problem that I recall being a fault of
the car itself. When we converted the car, we neglected to put a
grommet back in the firewall that we had pulled out to deal with
a wiring issue. The winter after the conversion's summer and
fall was rather soppy, and one time I left my car up in Petaluma
on a fellow EV'ers driveway to charge in a big rainstorm.
Driving back down to Marin, I noticed that I could not turn the
car off. Unfortunately, water had managed to run down the
firewall (because I hadn't installed drains yet (tore the old
crap out)), and entered past the dislocated grommet into the
relay and fusebox underneath the dash. It took some time to
figure out what had gone wrong, but it was practically hilarious
to Preston and myself when I pulled one of the relays out, turned
it over and water poured out of it. Not hilarious in getting the
nice wiring that car had under the dash wet, but apparently it
hasn't hurt it much.
But this kind of issue is why a Japanese car would be better,
especially a Honda, and I knew that back in the early 90s too.
My neighbor drives his '94 Honda Civic everyday, and about all he
ever has to do is the routine recommended maintenance. Nothing
hardly ever breaks. My '86 4Runner is almost that good, although
a truck is costlier to run and maintain.
Well, long ago time to cut it...
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
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