--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "john fisher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: vroombox and EV ?
> Bob when some aggressive fool in an oh-so-correct EV knocks your 85 year
old Mom down in a crosswalk, you might not be
> so keen on so-called Darwinian selection. ;>) Its important to remember
that not all people are 25 yr old athletes, who
> only eat granola, and don't own a cell phone. Some people are toddlers,
and some are blind, and some are simply stoned
> all the time. Still not ok to mow them down.
>
> Hey John I DIDN"T say that! I just was being sarcastic, people who
know me..........You have to be SUPER carefull handling two tons of deadly,
silent steel, no matter WHAT form of traction it employs. With stuff they
you don't steer, Locomotives, you use the HORN, Loud and clear. IF yur 85
year old Mom is on the RR traks, SHAME on you for not " Handling" her
properly! Same for toddlers, had enough near misses with trains!
> In fact pedestrians should have the right of way. They are using a lot
less resources than any motorized vehicle, after
> all. In CA they do have the right of way in a cross-walk, not that we
encourage walking out here.
Nuts! When the light sez" DON'T Walk" in BIG ass, red letters( 'cuse
me English isn't THEIR language) you DON'T walk, DAMMIT! I ride a bike in
NYC and had whacked enough dummy pedestrians that just WALK right after the
cars have gone and only us bikes coming down the Ave.Never LOOK, like
lemmings just GO. Fair game! But it can hurt YOU, too! Especially the ones
that pop out between the blocks, better known as jaywalkers, a tickitable
offense in NYC, from behind trucks, into the Bike Lane, which is used for
double parking and you swing wide so you don't get "Doored"!Yahoo's opening
ther car doors WIDE right into YOUR path!
> Wow thats my most politically correct post ever!
> JF
Wasn't mine, Politically correct DIDN'T build our great nation!!!
Seeya, in time to miss?
Bob
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: EV air conditioning, how to connect motor?
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 13:49:25 -0400
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Hi EVerybody;
I have welded the clutch fully ON on AC compressers building cheepo air
compressers, they work well, BUT you have to shoot some oil down threir
throat when your conscience gets to you! Other wise they seize up, as they
depend on the frion or whatEVer for lubrication! Can't you unbolt the clutch
in it;'s intirety and use a rubber like Love joy type coupling to, say a 100
volt or so Treadmill motor? I guess it depends on the compressor? I was
using a very old style one, that even LOOKED like a small air compresser. I
used them for YEARS before I got a "Real" air compresser.They were cheap at
junkyards.
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 12:09 PM
Subject: EV air conditioning, how to connect motor?
> Has anyone connected a relatively modern car A/C compressor to a motor,
> inline? The discussion about belts and chains is reminding me that I
> need to figure this out, and I'd like to avoid a belt if I can --
> amongst other reasons, I've still not found a good source for small
> lightweight K-section ribbed pulleys to fit on a standard keyed shaft or
> bushing. So, I'd like to have the motor somehow directly coupled to the
> compressor.
>
> Though I haven't taken one apart to verify, I've been told by someone
> knowledgeable that removing the pulley from an automotive compressor
> won't work, since the pulley actually supports the bearing in some way.
> I'd hoped to remove the pulley so I could couple directly from the motor
> shaft to the compressor shaft, but if he was right then this won't work
> without some detailed machine work to replace the pulley's bearing seat
> surfaces.
>
> So... I'm thinking more along the lines of bolting or welding something
> to the existing pulley and shaft end, and welding the clutch closed. Am
> I nuts? Is there a better way to do this?
>
> BTW, the inline idea would be ideal in my case, not only for efficiency,
> but also because I have a very long, narrow space where the setup would
> fit well. The vehicle in question is a 2001 Saturn SL.
>
>
> --
> Christopher Robison
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.10/873 - Release Date:
6/26/2007 11:54 PM
>
>
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: EV air conditioning, how to connect motor?
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:16:05 -0600
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Hello Christopher,
I just go done installing accessory electric motors to my A/C unit, plus
vacuum pump and a alternator-inverter unit. I did not have room to install
motors directly onto these units shafts, plus it would take to much hp on
some units to drive directly at 1:1 ratio.
The A/C takes a special tool to pull the pulley and clutch off the
compression which you can get from a parts store for about $45.00 or take it
to a A/C shop to have it pull. A standard wheel pulley will not work. This
tool must screw on the small center threads on the front of the pulley and
than it also pushes on shaft.
This A/C which is the new GM face mounted type, has its bearings in the
compressor unit. The shaft is taper at the end and then its round by the
compressor end. It has a 1/8 inch key in it.
I left the existing 5-inch diameter pulley and clutch unit on this unit and
use a industrial cog belts that ran to a 6 inch pulley with 5 V belt grooves
in it, so I can take of this pulley to drive other units.
Two thread mill motors that are rated at 3 hp peak or 1.75 hp continuous
each are gang together and have a 2.5 inch 2-groove taper lock pulleys on
them. Two match pair industrial cog belts than drive the 6 inch pulley which
in turn drives the accessory units.
Using 12 volt motors, the ampere is too high, so these PM motors that are
rated at 130 volts, are driven from a DC-DC converters off the main battery
pack that is 180 volts. At 130 volts, the rpm is too high which is about
8000 rpm, so I series off four of my IOTA DC-DC converters for 58 volts to
these motors.
The rpm at 58 volts is about 3600 rpm which is reduce by the 2.5 inch to 5
inch pulleys to about 1800 rpm which is just the right speed for the A/C
unit. I can use a selector switch from the IOTA units to switch to 28 volts
which works fine to drive the vacuum pump.
If I have all three units running off the accessory motors at the same time,
the starting ampere is too high for these motors which should be limit to 22
amps or lower for each one. I than have the main motor pilot shaft connect
up to the 6 inch 5-groove pulley by means of a electric clutch which I made
from a old A/C unit that has a long shaft to work with.
In a initial start up of my EV, this clutch engages the accessory clutch,
sometime like a starter for a engine does, and then goes off line and the
accessory motors take over.
Every time the accelerator is let up, than the main motor accessory drive
clutch will engage, the accessory motors go off line, and the main motor
continuous to drive the accessories which now show 0 main motor amps, 0
battery amps, and the accessory motor amps are also at 0 amps.
This is a form of REGEN which provides this mechanical energy directly to
the accessories.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 10:09 AM
Subject: EV air conditioning, how to connect motor?
> Has anyone connected a relatively modern car A/C compressor to a motor,
> inline? The discussion about belts and chains is reminding me that I
> need to figure this out, and I'd like to avoid a belt if I can --
> amongst other reasons, I've still not found a good source for small
> lightweight K-section ribbed pulleys to fit on a standard keyed shaft or
> bushing. So, I'd like to have the motor somehow directly coupled to the
> compressor.
>
> Though I haven't taken one apart to verify, I've been told by someone
> knowledgeable that removing the pulley from an automotive compressor
> won't work, since the pulley actually supports the bearing in some way.
> I'd hoped to remove the pulley so I could couple directly from the motor
> shaft to the compressor shaft, but if he was right then this won't work
> without some detailed machine work to replace the pulley's bearing seat
> surfaces.
>
> So... I'm thinking more along the lines of bolting or welding something
> to the existing pulley and shaft end, and welding the clutch closed. Am
> I nuts? Is there a better way to do this?
>
> BTW, the inline idea would be ideal in my case, not only for efficiency,
> but also because I have a very long, narrow space where the setup would
> fit well. The vehicle in question is a 2001 Saturn SL.
>
>
> --
> Christopher Robison
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
>
>
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:18:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: DC motor commutation
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I have recently seen several attempts to describe
commutation posted. Some have not been entirely
accurate. A short time ago I put together this
description for an interested party. So, I thought
I'd throw it out here. Take it or leave it.
All the coils in the DC armature are connected in a
closed circuit, at the comm bar risers. Most DC motor
armatures used by you and other EVers are 4 pole, wave
wound, with hairpin type coils giving one turn per
coil, two coil sides per slot. This requires a odd
number of comm bars. Each armature coil end is
connected to an adjancent coil end where it is brazed
or welded to the comm bar. This follows around for,
let's say, all 37 coils, forming a closed loop on
itself. It is only when the brushes are contacting
the comm that this closed loop of coils gives rise to
two current paths.
If the brushes were very narrow and just had a point
contact with the comm, then current (Ia/2) would flow
thru each and every armature coil. Effectively 18.5
coils in series and 2 parallel paths. Now the brushes
are wide enough to cover 2, maybe 3 comm bars. So the
coils connected to the comm bars which are shorted by
the brushes are taken out of the mix. Those coils are
shorted turns, not open. The coil has current flowing
in one direction as its comm bar encounters the brush,
is shorted by the brush and then has current flowing
in the opposite direction as its comm bar departs the
brush.
That would give us 16 coils in series carrying half of
the total armature current and the other 16 coils in
series carrying the other half of the current. That
would mean that there are 32 out of the 37 coils doing
their full job. The 5 coils that are shorted by the
brushes are positioned in the interpolar region anyway
and would contribute no torque even if they had
current flow.
All the coils under the poles will have full (Ia/2)
current and contribute to torque production and Eg in
the DC motor.
Jeff
____________________________________________________________________________________
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for
today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Loni" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Manly EV's, RE: EV are for girls blog
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:17:20 -0700
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Unfortunately, I'm not in the field of motor manufacture, though I'm
beginning to wonder who builds AC motors in the Pacific northwest. Give me
the motor and I can build the vehicle around it! At this point I'm all about
finding or designing appropriate system components and assembling them. That
will require plenty of engineering without having to build motors too 8^o
Lon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: Manly EV's, RE: EV are for girls blog
> On 6/27/07, Loni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>> > Take a look at this:
>> > http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Aeronautics-and-Astronautics/16-810January--IAP--2007/Projects/index.htm
>> > See the VDS, Powertrain - Electric Hub Motor design documents down the
>> > page.
>> > In essence, these guys designed a 10KW, axial air gap 3-phase PM motor
>> > ( sorta like
>> > brushless ETEK, only bigger )
>> >
>> > The important optimized design variables they came up with through
>> > modelling:
>> > 8 poles, 18 stator slots, NeFeB magnets, 1mm air gap and 0.82mm wire.
>> >
>> > now, where can i buy one ? ;)
>> >
>> > -kert
>> >
>> Single rotor, dual stator, $9393. Ingenious, but ouch. That's why
>> sometimes
>> it's just better to buy it from someone rather than design it yourself,
>> folks!
>
>
> That includes $3000 for engineer hours, $1650 for simulation
> workstation and so on. As they say "this table includes one-time cost
> of design, non-bulk cost of materials and machine-shop rates for
> machines"
> Contact these guys and offer to produce a small batch, and see how far
> the price can drop..
>
> -kert
>
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:35:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: All this battery talk and still it depends on who you ask
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
good post steve i just added you to my list of folks
to listen to or at least read in the final analysis we
each make the best choice which is almost always a
compromise between cost, function and
emotional/aesthetic desire .
--- Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Again, we are discussing batteries. Great. I hope
> to
> someday (after more than 10 years) finally
> understand
> what is a good battery for what application. I've
> tried most everything myself (except A123's) and
> still
> end up in the same situation - mostly confused.
>
> This I have come to understand, some by talking with
> others and some by my own experience, it really
> depends on your particular setup and goals and if
> you
> buy the wrong stuff, you can easily "lose" 1-2 grand
> on something that doesn't work well at all.
>
> So, here goes what I know:
>
> Mid size car (2500 - 3000 lb)
> - A good setup would by 18 x 6 V = 108 V, 550 - 1k
> controller, 9" motor. Good batteries to buy ....
> #1 - Trojan T-145 - when only the best will do
> #2 - Trojan T-125 - if you can lose some range
> #3 - Trojan T-105 or US Battery Equiv. You
> won't
> get nearly the range or cycle life of the others. I
> used US2200's myself in a 6 x 20 array and they
> didn't
> last that long. I had battery failures after 5k
> miles. That's my experience with US battery.
> Other's
> may have had a different experience. I also used
> T-105's in my first car 10 year ago. I abused them
> to
> no end, and they held up pretty well. Still, my
> performance wasn't that good.
>
> Other ... Exide (I heard a lot of complaints over
> the
> years, but a few success stories ... very few) ...
> Energizer (from Sam's Club). I believe these are
> re-branded Exide. See above. Truthfully, I am
> scared
> to buy that stuff from Sams Club. I've just heard
> some really bad stuff that the batts don't hold up
> at
> all. To drop $1200 on a pack and have it die in a
> year is risky. I've learned my lesson on that one.
> I
> did once buy 3 replacements for my 20 pack of
> US2200.
> They were old, so I figured the Sam's club was
> comparable. It worked OK, I guess. That was
> several
> years ago, 3 cars back.
>
>
> Truck - small one S-10 / Ranger
>
> 20 - 24 Golf Cart batts if you want range. Same
> batts
> as for the mid size car.
>
>
> Now, to my knowledge, none of these options gets you
> great acceleration. It may be acceptable to some,
> but
> others may find it totally unacceptable. Others
> like
> me, having seen and driven a lot of EV's over the
> years.
>
> Some answers ...
>
> Get a smaller car. That is what I did. But, now I
> can only fit in 12-14 batts max. So, I get very
> little range.
>
> Get a better controller, but you still need real
> real
> good batts to run that controller. So, how much
> good
> does a 1k controller do you if you have a 108 V pack
> of T-105's. OK. I know it does help, don't get me
> wrong, but if you drain those things at high rates,
> even Trojan, you are seriously shortening their
> life.
> Maybe just better to stick with the 500 - 600 A
> controller. Now, with other batts like US Battery,
> Exide ... other off brand. I "hear through the EVDL
> grapevine" that they can't handle the high current.
> Even 350 A is a problem for them, so I've just
> heard.
> No, on my batts, which I don't want to get into
> again
> because we all know what happened to them, I figure
> they were only good for short bursts of about 200 A,
> and cruise at 50 - 70 A max. That isn't going to
> get
> you very far, which is why I had so many issues with
> them. Be careful about those ratings on those
> labels.
>
> Now, there is 8 V. I really don't get why people
> use
> them. They have 6 V cars and want to lighten them
> up
> for better performance. Then, they put in 8 V.
> They
> get shorter range, and less cycle life. In some
> cases, significantly less. I had 13 T-875's in my
> current car. That's all that would fit, and it gets
> up to 104 V. Not a great solution at all in my
> book.
> I wonder if the car would have been better off with
> 12
> T-145's, running at 72 V. I really do wonder about
> that and if I should change over to golf cart batts
> and 72 V with the next pack. The thing is I have no
> idea what that will do to my acceleration and top
> speed in each gear. I expect it will get very bad.
> But, at the same time, if they can put out more
> amps,
> isn't that somewhat the same lower voltage and
> higher
> amps vs higher voltage and lower amps. I know about
> loss in the cables and stuff, but how much is that
> really? Top speed would be an issue for me. Can I
> fix that by advancing the brushes on the motor?
>
> What about AGM?
>
> Love them. Great power. Don't need to water them.
> They are tough batts. Hard to destroy. But, in my
> car, with 10 of them, I get maybe a 12-15 mile
> range.
> That's no good, but it sure does go fast.
>
> NiMH and LiIon (excluding A123)
>
> I just couldn't get the drain rate I needed without
> a
> very very large pack. Still, I see this as no
> solution, unless it is a very big pack, or a
> secondary
> booster pack to go along with an AGM pack.
>
> A123 - seen them. Like them. Don't like the price.
>
> Valance - seen them, like them also (although the
> power is a little limited compared to AGM). Really
> don't like the price at all. Especially considering
> the calandar life permanent loss in capacity.
>
> So, after all this, I still couldn't tell someone
> what
> to put in their car. I can't even figure out a good
> solution for my own car - mostly because of the
> limited size and weight carrying capacity.
>
> Any experts out there, feel free to elaborate,
> correct
> me, or give the real answer as to what people should
> use.
>
> That's more than 2 cents worth, and enough for now.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
___________________________________________________________________________________
> You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with
> AutoCheck
> in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
>
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>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 21:37:02 +0300
From: "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Manly EV's, RE: EV are for girls blog
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On 6/27/07, Loni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Unfortunately, I'm not in the field of motor manufacture, though I'm
> beginning to wonder who builds AC motors in the Pacific northwest. Give me
> the motor and I can build the vehicle around it! At this point I'm all about
> finding or designing appropriate system components and assembling them. That
> will require plenty of engineering without having to build motors too 8^o
>
> Lon
I have whined about this before: there are too few EV parts suppliers
and too few choices. When one has specific plans for a motor ( like,
oh, can you build a 10KW axial air gap PM 3-phase motor with hall
sensors ? ), it might be worth to turn to one of the companies having
enough expertise in building custom solutions and ask for production
quotes.
Googling a bit turns up lots of companies doing that.
-kert
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:03:40 -0700
From: "Ian Jordan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Manly EV's, RE: EV are for girls blog
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Work is work. If you put a gearbox in in order to convert torque to
RPM, this is identical to upping the voltage and reducing the current
via a battery pack.
The gearbox will just require more amps from the battery, so this is
the same as "dumping in more current".
There's no way to continue to accelerate without generating at least X
watts. Those watts either come from volts or amps. Choose one.
On 6/26/07, Loni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Of course I'd love to just dump in more voltage or current, but
> design constraints won't allow it. Will changing gears allow me to stay in
> the fat part of the motor's torque curve while continuing to accelerate to
> max speed, or should I just wring the motor out and accept whatever output
> it's capable of as current demand outstrips pack capacity?
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 15:38:42 -0400
From: "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Home built hybrid-electrics
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Good luck!
On 6/27/07, Tom Eberhard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm building a hybrid electic car and am interested in getting in
> touch with other people that have started or completed similar
> projects.
>
> Does anyone have the email address of this guy:
> http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?t=29720&highlight=
> (I registered on the site but the admins there have not blessed my request)
>
> For anyone who's interested, I post weekly updates of my progress here:
> http://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=3070
>
> and occasionally on my own site:
> http://www.GreenPlanetGarage.com
>
> Best Regards,
> Tom.
>
>
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 15:45:04 EDT
Subject: Re: AGM vs Gel
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
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I have owned several EVs powered by AGM and one with Deka Gel. In the winter
I found AGM and Gel both lost a lot of range when cold. I think all lead
acid batteries need to be heated in cold weather for best results. I would
also
guess for long life heat should be done as it puts less demand on the
batteries.
One point I cannot stress enough is AGM batteries are hard to keep in
balance. The gel batteries are outstanding in staying in balance. This is a
major
difference and is the reason Solectria made hundreds of EVs with them. It was
not a decision based on cost savings. Solectria found the Gel battery to be
superior battery in long life and staying balanced when in series. Gels do
hold a charge very well. I have a used ones that were removed from an EV with
over 18 thousand miles and they still hold 13.1 volts after a year. It is
amazing how long they will hold a charge. AGMs hold a charge well also but not
as
long as a gel.
If your charging algorithm is set up correct for Gel you will get way longer
life than with AGM batteries. If you do not need the high amperage rate an
AGM delivers then the Gel from my experience would be your best option. I
never notice enough difference in cold weather performance to say AGM or Gel
was
better than another. I never did any type of testing that so this is just an
opinion.
As far as the cold performance when it gets under 50 degrees all lead
batteries start dropping off. Many here on the list have shared great ideas
and
ways on keeping a pack warm. I would rather come up with a way to keep the
pack
above 50 degrees then keeping a pack of AGM in series in balance. Lee's
battery balancer putting a charge to each battery for balance is the best way.
A
charger for each battery not high tech but it does what is needed. I just
don't feel over charging some batteries to bring up others is the best answer.
It
is a compromise for not being able to put a direct charge to the low
batteries.
I am no battery expert but I have been impressed by the Deka gel batteries.
I cannot say about the other brands of Gel batteries but the Deka I would
recommend.
Don Blazer
In a message dated 6/27/2007 10:05:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On 6/26/07, David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 25 Jun 2007 at 22:09, Tehben Dean wrote:
> My question is, though, how often they'll really see that current. You're
> talking about 120kW. Do you really expect to use that much power
> frequently?
Victor says that the controller actually has a max current from
battery of 280amps.
>>Your inverter has 400A *rms peak* per phase output (motor) current.
>>The battery input limit for the inverter is 280A, you will never draw
>>more than that. In fact you will be hard pressed to see much more than
>>200A battery current. Dekas are perfectly fine battery for you.
>>Peter VanDerWal says:
>>Gel Cells are the worst.
>>AGMs perform the best in the cold, then floodeds and then Gel Cells.
I think I will stay clear of Gel Cells if they are the worst in cold weather.
--
TEhben
'hElix EV'
evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:50:47 -0700
From: john fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: vroombox and EV ?
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heh heh
fair enough
I've lived in NYC: anything and everything goes. TS if you get smacked down by
a cab.
Bob Rice wrote:
> >
> > Hey John I DIDN"T say that! I just was being sarcastic,
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 15:57:37 -0400
From: "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: J150 Battery
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I came across these batteries:
http://www.trojan-battery.com/Products/ProductSpec.aspx?Name=J150
http://www.trojan-battery.com/Products/ProductSpec.aspx?Name=T-1275
They seem to basically be 6 volt batteries merged together.
Any recommendations or comments on these batteries?
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charset="us-ascii"
Subject: RE: EV air conditioning, how to connect motor?
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 13:04:19 -0700
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Alan Brinkman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Christopher,
I wrote this huge reply to your message and deleted it and here are the
key points I can add. I have trouble creating short messages.
Automotive a/c pumps have tapered shafts with a key and a bolt into the
shaft to hold everything together. It would be hard to find a coupler
to mate to this shaft. However, you could mate to the front surface of
the clutch. The front surface of the clutch free wheels on a bearing,
so attach through that to the clutch surface behind it with bolts,
rivets, welding, etc... Leave yourself clearance or a method of
assembly, disassembly to get to the bolt that holds the clutch on.
You could purchase a hollow shaft that slips over your motor shaft, and
then weld a plate to the end of that, and bolt into the clutch to make a
direct drive setup. Assembly and disassembly will be tricky as the
clutch bolts up to your new adapter, and needs the bolt in the center of
the a/c pump shaft for secure mounting. Do not use the clutch coil as
this will get in the way of attaching to the clutch. Drill holes in the
clutch, and slip in bolts from the back side. Hold these in place with
the keeper type of washers. Mount your clutch on the compressor with
the key and bolt. Place your new adapter over the new bolts carefully
to not lose them inside the clutch. Place nuts on the bolts and tighten
down. Slip the assembly onto the DC motor shaft. Align and mount the
a/c pump assembly securely.
Newer a/c compressors seem to use less power and last longer. If you
are in an area that is not too hot, you could try going with an a/c
compressor from a smaller car to limit the power and start up power
required. At rest, the a/c system is at a lower pressure than when
running, and this will help a lot with start up.
Years ago one manufacturer used an a/c pump that ran all the time and
the controls and settings determined the cooling, with no clutch. Maybe
it was a scroll type compressor that did not heat up too much. I think
it may have had a valve to make zero pressure when not needed, so less
drag. I thought this was slick at the time, but everyone else was
running a clutch, and the idea vanished.
To remove an automotive a/c clutch you first remove the bolt in the
center that holds it on, exposing threads in the clutch hub. Install a
larger bolt here, and that presses on the shaft, and pushes the hub out
and off. There is a more expensive tool if you are worried about
damaging the shaft, and clutches are hard to remove after time, and
force, and corrosion. I used a regular bolt, not the tool, and did not
have any troubles servicing about ten vehicles and seven tractors over
about ten years. Your luck may vary.
A large auto parts house in your area likely will sell a book on how to
service auto a/c systems. The book will start with theory and safety.
Then how to repair each part of the system, safely.
I was able to attend two classes here locally put on by the parts
supplier on a/c repair and safety. No cost to attend.
Alan Brinkman
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Christopher Robison
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 9:43 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: EV air conditioning, how to connect motor?
On Wed, 2007-06-27 at 12:24 -0400, Randall wrote:
> I had always heard that you could connect a 1 or 2hp electric motor
directly
> to the input shaft of the compressor and have that motor be triggered
by the
> same input wire that would trigger the clutch.
That's exactly the plan. A relay triggered by the clutch signal, driving
a 2hp motor I have that runs at 3600rpm, which should be about the right
speed for decent performance from the compressor.
The question is how I should physically connect the two, without a belt
if possible. Anyone done this kind of direct drive arrangement, or seen
it done?
--
Christopher Robison
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
Subject: S10 transmission
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 16:02:34 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Anyone have experience.
Moving the transmission with motor etc. from an 84 S10 into a 93 S10.
Should everything line up?
The car I'm looking at buying has had the transmission removed (thus a
great $ deal for a new glider) I believe the transmission I am using is
from Brian Matthney's 87 S10 which he moved to the 84 S10, because Bob Rice
said the 84 he gave Brian didn't have a transmission.
Thanks, Ben
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Fw: programmed controller for use in recharging batteries...
MIME-Version: 1.0
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 16:35:46 -0400
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
I'm not sure how far these folks would be interested in going, but I got a
response from the Light-O-Rama folks.
No detail (as you can see) - but it might have been my poorly described
definition of the problem.
Ed Cooley
Jack of a few trades, master of .... (let me think... it'll come to
me)....
----- Forwarded by Ed Cooley/AO/USR/FTU on 06/27/2007 16:35 -----
LightORama Info <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
06/27/2007 16:27
To
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc
Subject
Re: programmed controller for use in recharging batteries...
Ed,
Thanks for the information. This is a little out of our area but it is
interesting and certainly something that is doable.
Best regards,
Dan
Light O Rama, Inc.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 8:09 AM
Subject: programmed controller for use in recharging batteries...
> I've been talking to a number of folks, who are interested in a variety
of
> tasks "battery related" - specifically, electric car battery monitoring,
> charging, and the like.
>
> Generally, in "Lead Acid" electric cars, you have 20-24 deep-cycle
6-voot
> lead-acid golf-cart batteries hooked up in series, for a total of
120-144
> volts dc.
>
> We've all been wondering how a controller might be used to sample each
> battery, and how such a controller might be able to store each battery's
> particular levels, and from there, use such information to either charge
a
> pack, or level a pack. Batteries in series don't always discharge/charge
> at the same rate; thus, after use, and at the end of a charging cycle,
one
> battery may be at 6.17 volts, and one next to it may be at 6.0 volts.
>
> A "leveling charge" is required - it overcharges the 6.17 volt battery,
to
> bring the 6.0 volt battery up to its full potential.
> Depending on the charger, this can slightly lessen the life-span of the
> completely charged battery.
>
> What would be cool, would be a device that not only measured each
> battery's voltage, but directed charge to each battery as necessary,
> rather than overcharging batteries that don't need it.
>
> Additionally, folks have discussed "Thundersky" batteries, A123
batteries,
> both of which apparently, are lithum ion batteries; which have different
> charging needs.
>
> Have you ever had anyone contact you regarding such technology needs?
>
> I seem to think in relays, so I'll mention my simple thoughts here:
> 24 batteries, 24 relays, 1 measuring point (a meter, or a computer that
is
> paying attention).
>
> Your device switches amongst the 24 batteries, and the computer knows
> which one you're switching to.
> Your device pulls down a relay, which then feeds the meter/computer for
> display or later analysis.
> Thus, a way of measuring each of the 24 batteries (some folks have more)
> would be possible, from the central location of the cab, or from the
> computer, which could later be used to display the output on a graph.
>
> The same setup could be used to have your device take a 6-volt charger,
> and skip around the pack as necessary, and bring up all the batteries
> (individually) to a full charge, rather than overcharging a single
> battery. Lead Acid is fine with overcharging (i.e. it doesn't hurt it
too
> much) - however, other batteries are far less forgiving on overcharging
-
> AGM batteries (in the same class as lead-acid), Lithium Ion, are 2 that
> cannot tolerate overcharging without severly shortening their useful
life.
>
> This is more complicated than it sounds, I am sure - but I wanted to
> mention these challenges to you that folks in the EV industry have, in
the
> hope that you would be able to think up a Battery Management System
(BMS)
> - that wasn't as expensive as the ones currently on the market.
>
> Best Regards -
>
>
> Ed Cooley
>
>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Fw: programmed controller for use in recharging batteries...
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 21:03:25 +0000
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Hi Ed,
I don't see anything in your wish list that isn't already being done with
Lee Hart's battery balancer. Are you just looking for a commerialized
product, or are you not aware of Lee's system.
damon
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: Fw: programmed controller for use in recharging batteries...
>Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 16:35:46 -0400
>
>I'm not sure how far these folks would be interested in going, but I got a
>response from the Light-O-Rama folks.
>No detail (as you can see) - but it might have been my poorly described
>definition of the problem.
>
>
>
>Ed Cooley
>Jack of a few trades, master of .... (let me think... it'll come to
>me)....
>
>
>----- Forwarded by Ed Cooley/AO/USR/FTU on 06/27/2007 16:35 -----
>
>LightORama Info <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>06/27/2007 16:27
>
>To
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>cc
>
>Subject
>Re: programmed controller for use in recharging batteries...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Ed,
>
>Thanks for the information. This is a little out of our area but it is
>interesting and certainly something that is doable.
>
>Best regards,
>Dan
>Light O Rama, Inc.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 8:09 AM
>Subject: programmed controller for use in recharging batteries...
>
>
> > I've been talking to a number of folks, who are interested in a variety
>of
> > tasks "battery related" - specifically, electric car battery monitoring,
> > charging, and the like.
> >
> > Generally, in "Lead Acid" electric cars, you have 20-24 deep-cycle
>6-voot
> > lead-acid golf-cart batteries hooked up in series, for a total of
>120-144
> > volts dc.
> >
> > We've all been wondering how a controller might be used to sample each
> > battery, and how such a controller might be able to store each battery's
> > particular levels, and from there, use such information to either charge
>a
> > pack, or level a pack. Batteries in series don't always discharge/charge
> > at the same rate; thus, after use, and at the end of a charging cycle,
>one
> > battery may be at 6.17 volts, and one next to it may be at 6.0 volts.
> >
> > A "leveling charge" is required - it overcharges the 6.17 volt battery,
>to
> > bring the 6.0 volt battery up to its full potential.
> > Depending on the charger, this can slightly lessen the life-span of the
> > completely charged battery.
> >
> > What would be cool, would be a device that not only measured each
> > battery's voltage, but directed charge to each battery as necessary,
> > rather than overcharging batteries that don't need it.
> >
> > Additionally, folks have discussed "Thundersky" batteries, A123
>batteries,
> > both of which apparently, are lithum ion batteries; which have different
> > charging needs.
> >
> > Have you ever had anyone contact you regarding such technology needs?
> >
> > I seem to think in relays, so I'll mention my simple thoughts here:
> > 24 batteries, 24 relays, 1 measuring point (a meter, or a computer that
>is
> > paying attention).
> >
> > Your device switches amongst the 24 batteries, and the computer knows
> > which one you're switching to.
> > Your device pulls down a relay, which then feeds the meter/computer for
> > display or later analysis.
> > Thus, a way of measuring each of the 24 batteries (some folks have more)
> > would be possible, from the central location of the cab, or from the
> > computer, which could later be used to display the output on a graph.
> >
> > The same setup could be used to have your device take a 6-volt charger,
> > and skip around the pack as necessary, and bring up all the batteries
> > (individually) to a full charge, rather than overcharging a single
> > battery. Lead Acid is fine with overcharging (i.e. it doesn't hurt it
>too
> > much) - however, other batteries are far less forgiving on overcharging
>-
> > AGM batteries (in the same class as lead-acid), Lithium Ion, are 2 that
> > cannot tolerate overcharging without severly shortening their useful
>life.
> >
> > This is more complicated than it sounds, I am sure - but I wanted to
> > mention these challenges to you that folks in the EV industry have, in
>the
> > hope that you would be able to think up a Battery Management System
>(BMS)
> > - that wasn't as expensive as the ones currently on the market.
> >
> > Best Regards -
> >
> >
> > Ed Cooley
> >
> >
> >
>
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