EV Digest 6964
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Weird Questions
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Hawker "SBSC11" Batteries - Good Bad or Ugly ?
by Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: reed switch application
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Hawker "SBSC11" Batteries - Good Bad or Ugly ?
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Potential BMS solution for lithium-ion packs.
by Cory Cross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: EV digest 6963
by Daniel Eyk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Nobody wants my money.. (rant for the day)and More
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EV air conditioning, how to connect motor?
by "Brian Pikkula" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: DC Circuit breaker
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Cheap
by jukka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Infrared coating and airsuspension packagesSubjects for faqs
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: To Gear or Not to Gear a Motorcycle (was Manly EV's, etc.)
by "Loni" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: To Gear or Not to Gear a Motorcycle (was Manly EV's, etc.)
by "Loni" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Rob,
The reason all hybrids use the electric motor for
acceleration not cruising is that most of your heavy
energy requirements are during acceleration and an
electric has lots of low end torque but uses too much
energy to keep going fast. I drive an Insight. I use
10 times as much energy going from stop to 30 mph as I
do cruising at 70 mph. as a matter of fact when I
used to commute 100 mi a day at 70 mph I got 65 to 70
mpg but now that I no longer do that commute and now
do almost all city stop and go I get 50 to 55 mpg... I
Also have a pure electric and if I keep my max speed
to 35mph i get almost 50% more range than if I try to
drive at 60 or higher. My experience is that electric
motive power is better a low speed not hi...
kEVs
--- "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Rob,
>
> Your idea would work but I think you would not be
> able to
> maintain 60mph for very long. You would need a 156V
> or better system
> with a lot of AH to go any appreciable distance.
> How about going the
> other way around? Use the electric drive for your
> in town driving and
> the gas engine for highway speeds? To do this on a
> focus all you would
> have to do theoretically is replace the back axle
> with a ford mustang
> rear end. Couple the pumpkin flange to a pulley and
> mount the electric
> motor to the axle and attach a chain system between
> the two. That way
> you can work out optimal gearing to achieve at least
> 45 mph in direct
> drive. Netgain technology has worked out a
> controller that makes it
> possible to drive an electric motor while the engine
> is running for a
> parallel motor hybrid vehicle. Currently their
> system is only for
> trucks but there are tons of OBD2 interfaces out
> there that could give
> you the LOD (engine load) input or speed input
> necessary to use the
> electric motor. There are also plenty of people who
> are familiar with
> the CAN protocol to help you program a system that
> would ask the gas
> engines ECU the right questions. That way you can
> have Full electric
> (gas engine in neutral), full gas, electric assist
> (hybrid mode). I
> hope this helps.
>
> jody
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Rob Hogenmiller
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 8:04
> To: EV Discussion
> Subject: Weird Questions
>
> I thought I might take a moment to explain the basis
> of a few questions
> I've asked, as they might seem a little weird.
>
> What I'm hoping to build is an EV-Hybrid.
>
> The Concept.
> Use an existing gas powered vehicle (in my case a
> 2007 Ford Fusion) to
> propel the vehicle up to 60mph (legal highway speed
> in my state).
>
> Once reaching 60mph, flip the electric motor on to
> maintain 60mph.
>
> So basically I'm trying to learn the terminology and
> also understand
> what kind of components I would need to accomplish
> this project.
>
> Currently I'm thinking of something very simple a on
> off switch no
> controller, and cut off switch (not sure if that is
> the right term) when
> the brakes are applied, basically like the way
> cruise control works. I
> would then set my cruise control on the car at
> 55mph, or whatever to
> kick in if the electric motor became under stress.
>
> This should bump my gas mileage very high, I'm
> hoping for well over
> 100mpg.
> Obviously this type of setup would not benefit all,
> but would be a nice
> setup for a commuter that has a fair share of
> highway
> traveling/commuting.
>
> You can see some of the things I'm learning/progress
> at www.7change.com
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey guys, a friend of mine as some Hawker - Enersys -
Powersafe batteries, model SBSC11. They are brand
new, but with date codes of around 2006, they were
still in crates when he unboxed them. I've just setup
a 24volt pack to separately power the field winding on
my aircraft generator/motor.
Would these be good in a main battery pack? The link
below shows the specs:
http://www.enersysreservepower.com/documents/US-SBS-RS-002_0205.pdf
M. Barkley
www.texomaev.com
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1135
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Crap. I realized later WHY you would want the reed switch in there -
> hills or anytime you want to move the car while holding the brake. I
> think you would want the reed switch to engage a little earlier than 150
> amps though as mentioned in another post.
Hmm .. not really. 150A is a 'normal' current draw for my S-10 lead sled
(at about 60 mph) . I just want the reed-switch as failsafe,
'controller-full-on-failure' style.
mm./
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good but extremely pricey. I saw a price of 239 for SBS40 batteries on
the web.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Michael Barkley
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 11:20
To: EVDL.ORG EVDL.org
Subject: Hawker "SBSC11" Batteries - Good Bad or Ugly ?
Hey guys, a friend of mine as some Hawker - Enersys - Powersafe
batteries, model SBSC11. They are brand new, but with date codes of
around 2006, they were still in crates when he unboxed them. I've just
setup a 24volt pack to separately power the field winding on my aircraft
generator/motor.
Would these be good in a main battery pack? The link below shows the
specs:
http://www.enersysreservepower.com/documents/US-SBS-RS-002_0205.pdf
M. Barkley
www.texomaev.com
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1135
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
IEEE has some sort of online seminar about battery charging technology.
I think it's mostly a PR event, but it may be of interest to those of
you with Li-Ion BMS problems.
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/webcast/5176
Cory Cross
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Electric Vehicle Discussion List
<ev@listproc.sjsu.edu> wrote:
>
> EV Digest 6963
>
> Topics covered in this issue include:
>
> 1) Re: Sailboat Conversion
> by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 2) RE: Weird Questions
> by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 3) RE: reed switch application
> by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 4) RE: reed switch application
> by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 5) Typical EV Motor
> by "Rob Hogenmiller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 6) Re: To Gear or Not to Gear a Motorcycle (was
> Manly EV's, etc.)
> by Tom Parker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 7) Re: Controler space
> by "TrotFox Greyfoot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 8) Re: S10 transmission
> by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 9) Re: Chains and belts (was Re: ft-lbs or lbs-ft
> by "TrotFox Greyfoot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 10) Re: Cheap
> by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 11) RE: Typical EV Motor
> by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 12) n00b in your midst
> by "John Labrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 13) RE: n00b in your midst
> by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 14) RE: n00b in your midst
> by "John Labrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 15) Re: Weird Questions
> by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 16) Re: Chains and belts (was Re: ft-lbs or lbs-ft
> by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 17) RE: n00b in your midst
> by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 18) Re: Cheap
> by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 19) Re: Sailboat Conversion
> by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 20) RE: EV air conditioning, how to connect motor?
> by Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 21) Re: Sailboat Conversion
> by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 22) RE: EV air conditioning, how to connect motor?
> by Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 23) RE: EV air conditioning, how to connect motor?
> by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 24) Re: Nobody wants my money.. (rant for the day)
> by Ian Hooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 25) RE: To Gear or Not to Gear a Motorcycle (was
> Manly EV's, etc.)
> by "Alan Brinkman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 13:38:19 +0200
> From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Sailboat Conversion
>
> you could give it a lead acid keel then : )
> keep the batteries in a custom pod downthere and
> serve a dual purpose :)
> > Subject: RE: Weird Questions
> Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 08:40:57 -0400
> From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>
> Rob,
>
> Your idea would work but I think you would not be
> able to
> maintain 60mph for very long. You would need a 156V
> or better system
> with a lot of AH to go any appreciable distance.
> How about going the
> other way around? Use the electric drive for your
> in town driving and
> the gas engine for highway speeds? To do this on a
> focus all you would
> have to do theoretically is replace the back axle
> with a ford mustang
> rear end. Couple the pumpkin flange to a pulley and
> mount the electric
> motor to the axle and attach a chain system between
> the two. That way
> you can work out optimal gearing to achieve at least
> 45 mph in direct
> drive. Netgain technology has worked out a
> controller that makes it
> possible to drive an electric motor while the engine
> is running for a
> parallel motor hybrid vehicle. Currently their
> system is only for
> trucks but there are tons of OBD2 interfaces out
> there that could give
> you the LOD (engine load) input or speed input
> necessary to use the
> electric motor. There are also plenty of people who
> are familiar with
> the CAN protocol to help you program a system that
> would ask the gas
> engines ECU the right questions. That way you can
> have Full electric
> (gas engine in neutral), full gas, electric assist
> (hybrid mode). I
> hope this helps.
>
> jody
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Rob Hogenmiller
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 8:04
> To: EV Discussion
> Subject: Weird Questions
>
> I thought I might take a moment to explain the basis
> of a few questions
> I've asked, as they might seem a little weird.
>
> What I'm hoping to build is an EV-Hybrid.
>
> The Concept.
> Use an existing gas powered vehicle (in my case a
> 2007 Ford Fusion) to
> propel the vehicle up to 60mph (legal highway speed
> in my state).
>
> Once reaching 60mph, flip the electric motor on to
> maintain 60mph.
>
> So basically I'm trying to learn the terminology and
> also understand
> what kind of components I would need to accomplish
> this project.
>
> Currently I'm thinking of something very simple a on
> off switch no
> controller, and cut off switch (not sure if that is
> the right term) when
> the brakes are applied, basically like the way
> cruise control works. I
> would then set my cruise control on the car at
> 55mph, or whatever to
> kick in if the electric motor became under stress.
>
> This should bump my gas mileage very high, I'm
> hoping for well over
> 100mpg.
> Obviously this type of setup would not benefit all,
> but would be a nice
> setup for a commuter that has a fair share of
> highway
> traveling/commuting.
>
> You can see some of the things I'm learning/progress
> at www.7change.com
> > Subject: RE: reed switch application
> Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 08:46:34 -0400
> From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>
> Crap. I realized later WHY you would want the reed
> switch in there -
> hills or anytime you want to move the car while
> holding the brake. I
> think you would want the reed switch to engage a
> little earlier than 150
> amps though as mentioned in another post.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 8:22
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: RE: reed switch application
>
> Is there any reason why you wouldn't just use the
> brake switch to
> control the SPDT relay directly? Why have two
> switches to control the
> same thing?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Paul
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 21:24
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: reed switch application
>
> I've spent the past couple of hours doing some
> online reading about reed
> switches. I have found a couple of questions
> unanswered. I bet some list
> members have the answers.
>
> My situation is that I want to add a reed switch
> along one of my EVs
> motor power wires as part of a system to shut a
> Curtis controller down
> quickly in the event it shorts on. The basic concept
> is [brake light on
> power] > [reed switch] > [SPDT relay with coil
> diode]. The switching
> contact is connected to ignition power in. The N.C.
> contact goes to the
> main contactor. The N.O. contact is connected to the
> one side of the
> coil and the other side of the coil is connected to
> ground. The brake
> light on power and reed switch in series can apply
> power to the same
> side of the coil as the N.O. contact to pull it in
> and the N.O. contact
> will latch it on.
>
> I have been looking at the test coils for reed
> switches and it appears
> that the reed switch to be tested is supposed to be
> slid inside the
> coil. If that is correct would that mean that I
> should put a round core
> around the power cable and slide the reed switch
> inside the same
> direction as the cable? When the power cable just
> passes through (or the
> reed switch is laid on the wire) what percentage of
> a turn is that
> approximately? Suggestions about the amp-turn rating
> of the selected
> reed switch would also be useful. I'm trying to get
> in the ball park
> before I just start buying parts half randomly :-)
>
> Thanx,
>
> Paul "neon" G.
> > From: "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: RE: reed switch application
> Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 09:02:54 -0400
>
>
> This may seem too simple, but why not just have the
> main contactor open when
> the brake lights are on?
>
> Simpler is more reliable.
>
> You would have to use your left foot on the brake,
> and your right foot on
> the accelerator to use the motor and brakes at the
> same time, anyway.
>
> I've never done this, even in an ICE stick shift
> car. And, an electric car
> is certainly easier to get started up a hill than
> an ICE.
>
> I have, on occasion, used the handbrake to start up
> a steep hill, but that
> wouldn't be a problem with the simpler "brakes-on
> means contactor open"
> setup.
>
> Phil Marino
>
> >From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> >Subject: RE: reed switch application
> >Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 08:46:34 -0400
> >
> >Crap. I realized later WHY you would want the reed
> switch in there -
> >hills or anytime you want to move the car while
> holding the brake. I
> >think you would want the reed switch to engage a
> little earlier than 150
> >amps though as mentioned in another post.
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> >Behalf Of Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G
> >Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 8:22
> >To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >Subject: RE: reed switch application
> >
> >Is there any reason why you wouldn't just use the
> brake switch to
> >control the SPDT relay directly? Why have two
> switches to control the
> >same thing?
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> >Behalf Of Paul
> >Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 21:24
> >To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >Subject: reed switch application
> >
> >I've spent the past couple of hours doing some
> online reading about reed
> >switches. I have found a couple of questions
> unanswered. I bet some list
> >members have the answers.
> >
> >My situation is that I want to add a reed switch
> along one of my EVs
> >motor power wires as part of a system to shut a
> Curtis controller down
> >quickly in the event it shorts on. The basic
> concept is [brake light on
> >power] > [reed switch] > [SPDT relay with coil
> diode]. The switching
> >contact is connected to ignition power in. The N.C.
> contact goes to the
> >main contactor. The N.O. contact is connected to
> the one side of the
> >coil and the other side of the coil is connected to
> ground. The brake
> >light on power and reed switch in series can apply
> power to the same
> >side of the coil as the N.O. contact to pull it in
> and the N.O. contact
> >will latch it on.
> >
> >I have been looking at the test coils for reed
> switches and it appears
> >that the reed switch to be tested is supposed to be
> slid inside the
> >coil. If that is correct would that mean that I
> should put a round core
> >around the power cable and slide the reed switch
> inside the same
> >direction as the cable? When the power cable just
> passes through (or the
> >reed switch is laid on the wire) what percentage of
> a turn is that
> >approximately? Suggestions about the amp-turn
> rating of the selected
> >reed switch would also be useful. I'm trying to get
> in the ball park
> >before I just start buying parts half randomly :-)
> >
> >Thanx,
> >
> >Paul "neon" G.
> >
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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>
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> > From: "Rob Hogenmiller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "EV Discussion" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Subject: Typical EV Motor
> Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 08:07:12 -0500
>
> How much does a typical EV motor weigh?
>
> Also what might be a typical dimensions of a motor?
> (I've seen 8" mentioned often, figure that is the
> diamter, but how long are
> they.)
>
> God bless
> > From: Tom Parker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 01:01:52 +1200
> Subject: Re: To Gear or Not to Gear a Motorcycle
> (was Manly EV's, etc.)
>
> On Wed, 2007-06-27 at 16:48 -0700, Loni wrote:
>
> > I think I understand now. Regardless of pack
> voltage and gearing, when I
> > demand acceleration the system has to generate X
> watts. Once the limits of
> > pack voltage are reached, X watts are achieved by
> increasing amperage.
> > Right?
>
> Yes. But you might have more luck thinking about
> torque, rather than
> power.
>
> As has been said before, for most all electric
> motors, torque is
> directly proportional to current. The voltage
> required to push any given
> current through a motor goes up with the motor
> speed.
>
> As an example (I'm making all these numbers up),
> with your motor and
> gearing, you might require 100A to generate 250Nm of
> wheel torque. This
> current will be the same at 0km/h or 120km/h. The
> difference is that at
> 0km/h you might need 8 volts to push 100A through
> the motor, and at
> 120km/h you might need 300 volts.
>
> So your balance is this:
>
> 1) More current heats your motor & controller,
> shortening their life.
> 2) More current may shorten the calendar life of
> your batteries.
> 3) More current will reduce your efficiency (for
> various reasons).
> 4) More rpm shortens the life whatever is turning.
>
> To find out how big any of these effects are, you
> have to talk to the
> manufacturer.
>
> > Most of the respondents here have suggested that
> direct drive is the way to
> > go. That may be true, but I'm curious whether
> that's the general consensus
> > when pack voltage is limited to, say, 120 V due to
> packaging/range
> > constraints. If, for example, I hold the motor at
> 9000 rpm to maintain top
> > speed, it seems that I would be drawing big amps
> while unnecessarily
> > decreasing motor life-expectancy due to
> centrifugal force (with most
> > motors). Or I could change gear ratios and still
> demand the same wattage,
> > but at a lower motor rpm. True?
>
> I think you've missunderstood the relationship
> between current, voltage,
> speed and torque.
>
> If you gear your motor for higher motor speed, the
> torque required at
> the motor for any given wheel torque will be
> lessened. Less torque means
> less current. You don't get a free lunch, because
> you need more voltage
> to push this current through the motor.
>
> > I know it seems unrealistic to think that an
> operator might hold rpms at
> > 9000 for any length of time, but if I'm going to
> start manufacturing
> > motorcycles in any volume, I have to condsider
> every possibility.
>
> Talk to a manufacturer. You may find the life of the
> motor at the
> maximum rated speed is not substantially different
> than the life of the
> motor at half that. This is especially true when you
> consider the
> reduced current in a faster turning motor.
>
> You fear that using more rpm and less current above
> will cause your bike
> to fail due to (4), but (1) acts to make it last
> longer.
>
> A cooler motor turning quickly might actually last
> longer than a hot
> motor turning slowly. Both will likely last far
> longer than necessary.
> > Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 09:13:56 -0400
> From: "TrotFox Greyfoot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Controler space
>
> Another thing to consider when thinking about
> vacuum-based switching
> is, "How do you maintain vacuum?" Let just the
> wrong amount of air in
> there and you'll end up with a plasma that will very
> quickly destroy
> both the electronics and likely a good portion of
> the case, if metal.
> Dry air would be a better choice I would think.
>
> Trot, the sucky, fox... } ; ]
>
> On 6/28/07, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > No; this is not the case. At the breakdown voltage
> between the two
> > metals, the electric field strength is high enough
> to rip electrons
> > loose from the metals themselves. The electrons
> form the "gas" that
> > carries the current from one to the other. The
> electrons slam into the
> > positive side, giving up their kinetic energy and
> causing major heating
> > at the point of contact. When the positive metal
> gets hot enough from
> > this, positive metal ions start boiling off, and
> become a second "gas"
> > to carry charge in the opposite direction. These
> positive ions bombard
> > the negative side, causing it to heat up as well.
> >
> > Anyone who has used high power vacuum tubes has
> seen this effect. When
> > you overload the tube, it can arc over between
> cathode and plate, heat
> > them to incandescence, and they will melt and
> weld.
> >
> > > With this same thought a controller switch
> sealed in a vacuum would
> > > have no arc...
> >
> > Yes, it will (see above). In fact, the breakdown
> voltage in a vacuum is
> > *lower* than it would be with air. Air is a better
> insulator than a vacuum.
> >
> > However, air contains oxygen. Once you do strike
> an arc in air, the
> > oxygen erodes the metal very quickly -- much
> quicker than in vacuum.
> >
> > > And as far as noise I am sure that the arch
> would be a good part of
> > > the noise.
> >
> > Do you mean acoustic noise (the "clack" of a
> contactor pulling in)? This
> > is purely mechanical; a contactor is just as loud
> with no current
> > flowing as it is at full load.
> >
> > Or do you mean electrical noise (as in RF
> interference)? This is always
> > present with contacts, regardless of whether there
> is air, vacuum, oil,
> > or anything else between them. The electrical
> noise is caused by the
> > sudden (nearly instantaneous) change in voltage
> and current as the
> > contact opens and closes the circuit.
> >
> > --
> > Ring the bells that still can ring
> > Forget the perfect offering
> > There is a crack in everything
> > That's how the light gets in -- Leonard
> Cohen
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
> --
> | /\_/\ TrotFox \ Always remember,
> | ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a
> | >\_/< [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third
> alternative."
> > Subject: Re: S10 transmission
To: BFratto,
It makes a difference if it was a 2.8 or 4.3 liter
V6. If you go to this S-10 webwite, it will explain
the differences. I am converting an S-10 as well.
www.s10blazers.com
www.s10blazers.com/transmission.htm
I have found their site to be helpful. Good luck.
Dan Eyk
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 09:15:18 -0400
>
> Jim,
>
> The donor vehicle has/had a 5 speed transmission
> that was broken and
> removed 1993
>
> Presently I'm using an 1987 4 speed transmission in
> my 84 Chevy EV.
> > Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 09:23:57 -0400
> From: "TrotFox Greyfoot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Chains and belts (was Re: ft-lbs or
> lbs-ft
>
> Think of belt slip as a feature. Especially with
> A/C compressors and
> superchargers when there is a sudden surge in the
> accessory's power
> demand the belt absorbs a portion of that surge
> instead of trying to
> transfer it all back to the crank where damage could
> occur. You're
> also less likely to damage the belt if it can slip.
> A toothed belt
> may shear teeth off in the same situation.
>
> It's a feature, not a bug! ; ]
>
> Trot, the mechanically-minded, fox...
>
> On 6/28/07, Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > This reminds me to ask: teethed belts don't
> require as much tension as
> > V-ones and don't slip. Wonder why they aren't used
> more widely? Sure,
> > alternator and A/C compressor don't require exact
> timing as valves do,
> > but still, is it just noise and extra expense of
> teethed belts and
> > pulleys, or some other technical reasons?
> >
> > Victor
>
> --
> | /\_/\ TrotFox \ Always remember,
> | ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a
> | >\_/< [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third
> alternative."
> > Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 06:26:02 -0700
> From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Subject: Re: Cheap
>
> I have been designing a group 22-ish module with
> 26650's and integral BMS
> I have planned on groups of 12 cells in parallel
> useing nickel tabs to
> buss bars with notches in the nickel tabs to serve
> as fuses in case of
> short.
> Each group of 12 has two temperature sensors,
>
> Hopefully 12 of these modules will fit and can be
> interconnected in a
> few choices
>
>
> 6 series groups of 2*12 parallel cells yielding
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> or
> 4 groups of 3*12 yielding [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> or
> 3 groups of 4*12 yielding [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> I will use 15 of the first one as I have a 288V lead
> conversion at the
> moment and my range doesn't need to be so great.
> Someone with a 156V zilla will probably use 12 of
> the 2nd version
>
> And some extreme range nut or low voltage conversion
> will use the 3rd
> option.
>
> I will start with bypass regulators, and see how
> they perform. The micro
> will control them and interface to the charger and a
> dash display.
>
> I don't have much money at the moment so the going
> is slow, but I got
> the weld controller and transformer and I have
> quotes out for the darn
> nickel tabs. (Try getting A123 to sell you cells and
> tabs seperately
> LOL). The silver lining is that by the time I am
> ready to buy cells,
> they will most certainly cost less :-)
> > Subject: RE: Typical EV Motor
> Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 09:38:14 -0400
> From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>
> My netgain 9" motor weighs 150 pounds. For
> dimensions go to the netgain
> website. They have drawings and everything.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Rob Hogenmiller
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 9:07
> To: EV Discussion
> Subject: Typical EV Motor
>
> How much does a typical EV motor weigh?
>
> Also what might be a typical dimensions of a motor?
> (I've seen 8" mentioned often, figure that is the
> diamter, but how long
> are
> they.)
>
> God bless
> > Subject: n00b in your midst
> Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 15:38:20 +0200
> From: "John Labrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>
>
>
> Greetings Everyone
>
>
>
>
>
> This is my first post to this list and I am very
> amped to have found
> this group. ( ok not exactly true, this is my second
> try. First one I
> tried sending it in html format)
>
>
>
> I have been reading a lot about the technology
> lately and do think there
> is a great (needed) future for it. I have also
> started developing a
> website for my own use about EV.
>
>
>
> I would love to hear from you guys/girls.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> John Labrey
>
> Ps. Where are most of you ppl based?
>
>
>
>
Daniel Eyk
Vancouver, Wa.
Electric S-10 project
E-15 project
____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Hooper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: Nobody wants my money.. (rant for the day)
Yeah at this stage I'll just grab a couple of X91s for the MX5 from an
existing reseller. Kind of turns me off ADC motors though when they snub
me like that ;)
-Ian
Hi Ian an' EVerybody;
Yeah! I essentually got the bum's rush from ADC, about 7 years ago, and
was pissed off enough to DO something about it. A web search for a blown ADC
armature, (coil ground) dropped me into Warfield Electric's website. Picked
up the fone, called, and got Jerry Warfield. JACKPOT! Jerry and I hit it off
right away,talked for over an hour, well you know how long winded I can
be<g>!? EV's?? Yeah! We have done that! Jerry was as hot on EV's as I. I
told Jerry that the budding conversion hobbiest biz COULD be a part of
Warfield's biz, we have to hook up on this. Meanwhile Jerry said" Ship yur
motor armature out to us and we will rewind it in a few days DAYS? Yah HOO!
Was told by many a motor shop it would cost thousands, throw it away,
including ADC! I did and he did and I was happily motoring a week later. BTW
I STILL am, with THAT Warfield rebuilt motor, he later did my fields, too.
Motor lives on in my Jetta, will take me to the store later. I love how it
"Sings" at various speeds. Weeeeeeeeeee! You probably know that sound, too?
Like Boston's trackless trolleys!
Of course I raved about Jerry's fast fix fir my dead motor, on the List .
It's fun to spread the word when yur a happy camper<g>!Thought nothing of it
until Geo. Hamstra hit me at the EVA Thing in Montreal a few years later. He
had picked up on my post, gone to see Jerry, set up a deal, Net Gain, we all
know and love so well. Both these guyz were/are from the Chicagoland Empire,
of which I consider that as most EVerything seems to be obtainable in that
vast regen of USA. Like need something made? Well, you USED to be able to
buy even Pullman cars there, and the Lokies to pull them!
This was the beginning; Netgain worked with guyz like J. Wayland to
design a better EV motor. Netgain/Warfield will LISTEN to you with
suggestions to improve the product. Many small changes have gone into the
"Product" to improve it. Let me put it this way. When Geo. said that my Post
started something, it made my week, month, YEAR, to have had a small part in
the EV progress. If I can pass ideas around, doesn't COST much, and it helps
fill the streets with EV's?
In passing I'm glad to see Lee Hart has"outed" himself, with the Sunrise
Project. Yes! OUR Lee, quietly doing something about EV's in more than you
thought(Battery Managment systems).Lee has taken the Sunrise Body that I and
several of youse others helped me, buy on E bay. Getting Jerry Dycus and
James Worden to sit down together and share ideas, at Jame's beautiful place
in MA. Having James show us his museum, in his barn ,of EVerything he did
BEFORE and later as Solectria. I hope he can open this to the public.
someday? He has enough stuff to do a History Channel " Modern Marvels" show,
right under that roof! The stuff that Solectria, well, James, walked(drove)
away with all the rewards EVery year at Tour De Sol. Of course James has a
living Sunrise all done up, and drivable, of which we all had the pleasure
of driving/riding. Why do ya think I'm so hot on the Sunrise<g>!?Only other
EV of that caliber is, well WAS the EV-1. EV-1's are history, godammit! But
we have a chance to see a Sunrise.Was hoping to put Lee and James together
awile. Didn't happen, sigh! I felt that the torch had been passed to me.
Well, not only me, Jerry, later Lee. A damn BIG torch, I can't do it alone.
Jerry is up to his ears with the Freedom Project and Lee stepped in to start
on bringing Sunrise past the shell body we bought on E Bray. Lee hauled it
up to MN from FLA, I went along, tried to help Lee drive the trailer rig
down and back to FLA, up to MN. Had Lee trapped in the car for daze, to
learn about why it isn't a drop to gether thing, an EV controller. Was a fun
trip, dispite my driving Lee's car over a curb in the dark, and the repairs
it entailed on the road to FIX it. Sigh! We made it back to MN from Tampa,
BOY! that'sa long drive, in two daze from sweltering Tampa to snow flurries
outside the Twin Cities! Lee? Wanna go to Wayland's Invitational? I'll pick
ua up in a few weaks, we'll go?! Prius is ready! IF ya can stand a few daze
in the car with me, again? Fly back, if yur pressed for time? Just a
thought!
Anyhow, IF ya wanna help the cause, send Lee some money! It has been
mostly Lees dime on this project. I'm tooting his horn, here. He's too much
of a gentleman to ask.
OK now ya know the REST of the story as the guy used to say on the
radio.If I can still be an idea man, behind the scenes in the EV World.
Hell! Been in it long enough, going on 40 years. God! That's a long
time<g>!Now IF I can get my shit together? Movies, pix, ect. Just bought
ANOTHER camcorder, to try to catch a bit of history as it unfolds.ANOTHER 8m
super 8 whattever so my OLD stuff can be played back at a DVD format?Format
of the hour.
Planning my Portland Pilgrimage, missed out last year,Great Circle route
around the USA while you still can, gas prices homeland security,
notwithstanding, and I'm not getting any younger!
Seeya there?
Bob
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database:
269.9.10/876 - Release Date: 6/28/2007 10:56 AM
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is probably a rather elementary question, but I'm not a mechanic
so I'll have to ask.
What is the control mechanism for the compressor to kick on and off
(ie how does it know)? Is it a mechanical valve in the compressor, an
electrical signal from the ECU from a pressure sensor down line, etc?
Thanks,
Brian
1998 VW Jetta TDI
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/960
http://www.evdub.blogspot.com/
On 6/27/07, Jim, Saturn Guy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Christopher,
Hi, my name is Jim. I am an ASE master mechanic and
have been toying with the A/C requirements of my own
EV. The direct drive is an OK idea, but the automotive
compressors have the electromechanical clutches on
them for a reason. They are made to "cycle"
frequently under normal operating conditions. Without
this "cycling" of the compressor, the system will not
operate as it was designed to do. Start you ICE
vehicle, turn on the A/C and hold the engine RPM up at
2000 like your going down the road. No watch how
often the compressor cycles. This action should be
duplicated using your direct drive. And if it is
duplicated, I would think the life of your DC
accessory motor will be short. I have been looking
into the possibility of using the compressor from a
wrecked Toyota Prius. They use a "compressor/motor"
assembly. There are no external moving parts. Just
feed it power. But I'm still investigating what the
power requirements are for these compressors. If you
want to use the compressor you have, I would use belt
or chain drive and let the compressors clutch do it's
job. Have fun!!
Jim
--- Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 2007-06-27 at 13:04 -0700, Alan Brinkman
> wrote:
> > Christopher,
> >
> > I wrote this huge reply to your message and
> deleted it and here are the
> > key points I can add. I have trouble creating
> short messages.
> >
>
> Thanks for the effort Alan, I really appreciate it.
> I'm going to fiddle
> around with the compressor and see what I can do
> with it, and I'll refer
> back to your email and Roland's and see if I
> understand more once I have
> the parts in front of me. I'm hoping to do
> something like what you're
> talking about, attaching to the front face of the
> clutch/pulley
> assembly, and using the bolt into the shaft end to
> center everything.
> Balancing might be an issue especially if I weld,
> but we'll see how it
> goes...
>
>
> --
> Christopher Robison
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre +
> Z2K + Warp13!
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
I am looking for a suitable dc circuit breaker for a 400V EV with 400 to
500 amp for tripping. Could one of you guide me to a suitable site? I
could only find lower voltage DC ratings. Can I put two or three of the
lower voltage ones in series to get the same effect? Thanks
Joseph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually it has a fuse mechanism in the electrode materials. You need a
considerable high area of shorting permanently with external object to
get the chain reaction going. Have you ever wondered why the cells do
not give 30C or more out on short ? It's tuned to be more safe cell in
shorting situation. After all if you have 600 ah cell do you need more
than 600 A current ? Very rarely it is required..
Also shorting with external cells which are separate, small and tightly
packed they cannot divide the heat in as big area as in TS cells. Also
the material thicknesses are in another level.
Again. The TS cell has internal paralled cells but since they share the
same electrolyte container the charge can divide more easily over the
various pairs. Not as fast as in discharge through poles but still. The
mechanism is there.
If you take the TS cell internal parts, roll every electrode pair in to
swiss roll and put these rolls in the same electrolyte situation is
same. but if you seperate them to their own casings => more complex BMS
required.
-Jukka
Victor Tikhonov kirjoitti:
Some large format batteries (like TS) are in fact individual
cells paralleled inside common enclosure. Any of those can
internally to the battery get shorted and others discharge into it
all inside. There are no fuses in this particular battery (TS),
may be it should have them.
If you assemble the pack using small series-parallel interconnected
cells (A123, 18650 or such) and use fuse in series with each individual
cell a parallel building block is assembled from, make sure that you
have means to detect a blown fuse(s) condition. Else fewer sells will
get bigger the same share of the same total current and 1-2 "off-line"
ones may go unnoticed imbalancing the pack quickly.
Mechanically make sure it is easy to replace any cell within such a
block. ACP had 68 18650's between two "grids" and it would be tough
to replace any one which is not in the most outer (peripheral) row
around the block.
Victor
Lee Hart wrote:
Shaun Williams wrote:
In rough dimensions I'd probably have approximately 40 groups in
series, with 30 paralleled cells in each group, to replace my
current 12 X 12V 100Ah(C20) lead pack.
My first question is; Do the 30 individual cells in a parallel
grouping need individual attention or can I treat them as one
because they are in parallel with each other?
My view is that you're taking chances by simply paralleling so many
cells. If one shorts, the other 29 in parallel will dump all their
energy into it. This is the first step in a disasterous chain reaction.
At the very least, I think you need a fuse in series with each cell.
It will blow if that cell sees excessive current. If you make it a
thermal fuse that will open if the cell temperature exceeds X degrees,
it will also disconnect the cell if it ever overheats.
--
I would not waste my life in friction when it could be turned into
momentum. -- Frances Willard
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In the past two people have posted
1.
A site that makes glass coatings ofr automotive glass that reduces
infrared (heat) transmission from sunlight to almost zero inside a car
(reducing the air conditioning requirement considerably)
And 2.
2. Low cost air suspension add on packages to increase gliders
(motorless cars used for conversion) weight carrying ability so they can
handle the increased weight of batteries.
Could someone report those two contacts and we could add them to the
faq.
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tesla expects 200+ miles, I expect 100-120. Estimated pack cost: $8-10,000.
I won't talk about estimated retail or specifications for the rest of the
bike, but suffice it to say it will be different from everything else out
there and it won't be cheap. I'd still build and sell them at $500 profit
per unit if doing so significantly advanced the cause of getting EVs out
there.
Lon Hull,
Portland, OR
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 5:36 AM
Subject: Re: To Gear or Not to Gear a Motorcycle (was Manly EV's, etc.)
logic behind Tesla Motors' rollout at the high end of the market, where
overall design panache and sporting character matter enough to justify
the
$25,000 "Energy Storage System" cost (at least to several hundred buyers
so
far). Of course, on a bike the ESS will be significantly less expensive.
I guess that depends on how you define "Significantly". Motorcycles have
really, REALLY, bad aerodynamics. To get similar range at highway speeds
a motorcycle will need a pack that is at least 2/3 the size of the Tesla's
pack.
Assuming you can get the same deal on the batteries, that works out to
$16,000, or so.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 5:56 AM
Subject: Re: To Gear or Not to Gear a Motorcycle (was Manly EV's, etc.)
Disregard, I'd forgotten how big the battery pack on the Tesla was, you'd
never fit 2/3 of that on a bike.
In fact you'd be doing good to squeeze in 1/5 of that pack.
So $5k or so for the pack alone, but you'd only get maybe 100 miles range
at highway speeds. Less if you take adavantage of all of that
acceleration.
I wasn't planning on using the same LiPols as Tesla. A123 cells allow more
packaging flexibility than most, and I believe energy density of their new
cells is as good or better than Tesla's. Even then, I may only manage to
stuff 1/5 of Tesla's storage capacity onto a bike. I'll do what I can.
Lon Hull,
Portland, OR
--- End Message ---
