EV Digest 6985
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Fuel Cells
by "torich1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Fiero conversions..?
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Evette
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) bike spedos in evs
by "Brian Pikkula" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Evette
by "Tom S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Wheel alignment Or How to significantly reduce rolling resistance!
.. hill climbing ..
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: tesla car .. tango .. motor ?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: might be the electric car of the future
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: tesla car .. tango .. motor ?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: bike spedos in evs
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: bike spedos in evs
by Jeff Mccabe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: might be the electric car of the future
by "Tom S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Evette
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) RE: battery carrying straps =?UTF-8?B?d3RiPz8=?=
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Fuel Cells
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) Re: Evette
by Ian Page-Echols <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Zilla Controller
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: tesla car .. tango .. motor ?
by "Dmitri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: DC Circuit breaker
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20)
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: might be the electric car of the future
by "TrotFox Greyfoot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Honda Insight
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: bike spedos in evs
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: might be the electric car of the future
by "Tom S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Zilla emergency shutdown
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: bike spedos in evs
by "Brian Pikkula" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: might be the electric car of the future
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Evette
by "Tom S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: might be the electric car of the future
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Getting Better!!
http://www.greenoptions.com/2007/06/28/honda_fcx_continues_evolution_of_fuel_cell_technology
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'd have to agree with John, I have a light weight VW
bug (lots of fiberglass parts and 10 12 v orbitals. I
barely get 15 miles between charges. We all need to
be very realistic when we talk about range. Unless
this guys trips are all downhill there is no way he
gets 50 mi per charge.
--- John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello to All,
>
> Adrian DeLeon wrote:
>
> >
> > A guy in town has been driving a Fiero conversion
> for quite a while.
> > 9" ADC, Curtis 1231, and 10x 12V marine batteries
> (Interstate?). Very
> > nice installation and super clean setup/wiring.
> He mentioned a 50
> > mile range, which I highly doubt with the hills
> here. But I have no
> > idea where/how he drives it. I've never seen it
> on the road.
>
> I'd say he's not a good source of credible info! 50
> miles in a heavy
> Fiero on just 10, 12V marine batteries? Give me a
> break! I ran my 1000
> lb. lighter Datsun 1200 sedan on 2 more of the same
> battery type, 12,
> 12V marine batteries. The car also had a Curtis
> controller and a 9"
> ADC motor. Again, weighing a full 1000 lbs. 'less'
> and with 20% more
> battery capacity, the car delivered 20-25 miles
> range per charge.
>
> See Ya...John Wayland
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
that gives answers, not web links.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
what if one motor loses power and the other is full on?
Tom S. wrote:
Hi Dan,
Yes we`ve had it up to 60 mph, it runs great. Inertia makes the car want to go
straight.
Tom Sines
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Jul 3, 2007 7:53 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Evette
It's a funny car but it seems like a very dangerous configuration. have
you tried driving it at high way speeds? not sure but seems to me that
the slighest flick of the hand at full speed could be fatal, let alone
an actual failure in the controllers.
Dan
________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone put a bicycle spedo (aka computer) in their ev? Are there
any other options for speedometers?
http://cgi.ebay.com/BICYCLE-ODOMETER-SPEEDOMETER-BIKE-CYCLING-COMPUTER_W0QQitemZ330142869559QQihZ014QQcategoryZ30108QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
--
Brian in TX
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/960
http://www.evdub.blogspot.com/
It may seem like I am doing nothing, but on a cellular level I'm
really quite busy.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Dan,
There again, inertia at higher soeeds is the driving force, and left and right
brake controls the car. By the way this car is really fun to drive!
Tom Sines
-----Original Message-----
>From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Jul 3, 2007 10:28 AM
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: Re: Evette
>
>what if one motor loses power and the other is full on?
>
>Tom S. wrote:
>> Hi Dan,
>>
>> Yes we`ve had it up to 60 mph, it runs great. Inertia makes the car want to
>> go straight.
>>
>> Tom Sines
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>>> From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Sent: Jul 3, 2007 7:53 AM
>>> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>>> Subject: Re: Evette
>>>
>>> It's a funny car but it seems like a very dangerous configuration. have
>>> you tried driving it at high way speeds? not sure but seems to me that
>>> the slighest flick of the hand at full speed could be fatal, let alone
>>> an actual failure in the controllers.
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> PeoplePC Online
>> A better way to Internet
>> http://www.peoplepc.com
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
peekay wrote:
ev's are totally unsuitable for up-hill climbs
Only if you never drive back downhill. :-)
But what goes up must come down. What you lose going uphill you get back
going downhill. EVs with regenerative braking can certainly do better in
hilly country than ICEs!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
peekay wrote:
1. Why should I NOT buy a Tango?
Because they cost $100,000 US? You may have much better uses for this
much money.
2. Why should I NOT think that the very heavy weight is wrong design?
The Tango premise is:
- Good range and performance in an EV requires a high percentage
of the vehicle's weight to be batteries.
- Good handling requires a low center of gravity.
- Reducing wind resistance requires low frontal area.
- By mounting the heavy batteries very low, you can make the car
very narrow, to minimize wind resistance while still maintaining
good handling and stability.
3. Why should I NOT want the batteries to be much lighter
(even if it reduces range and also acceleration)?
Because the deeper you discharge batteries, the shorter their cycle
life. A small light pack will cost more (due to having to be higher
tech), and have a short life (due to deeper discharges and higher
currents relative to its amphour capacity).
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michaela Merz wrote:
I think this little car is great. However - I was wondering: In order to
keep the car going straight, both motors must be in pretty good sync. How
would one achieve that without a lot of self-regulating electronics?
Complex solutions are popular. For example, the Segway. :-)
I tend to prefer simple, clever, elegant solutions. They are cheaper,
and easier to keep working.
Permanent magnet motors (either AC or DC) naturally run at a speed
proportional to voltage (for DC) or frequency (for AC). So, two PM
motors in parallel, driven by the same controller and thus at the same
voltage, will try very hard to run at the same speed.
Another way would be a mechanical solution; use a single motor, with a
hydraulic or mechanical CVT to drive each wheel. This is a proven
concept, used on thousands of industrial vehicles, lawn mowers, etc.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
peekay wrote:
does this mean that there is no 'mechanical' connection between the
two rear tyres?
Correct. There is no mechanical connection between them except the road.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've seen a few that did this. Add ons for old commuta cars or
Electreks. Can't remember the details of how they did this though.
On 7/3/07, Brian Pikkula <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Has anyone put a bicycle spedo (aka computer) in their ev? Are there
any other options for speedometers?
http://cgi.ebay.com/BICYCLE-ODOMETER-SPEEDOMETER-BIKE-CYCLING-COMPUTER_W0QQitemZ330142869559QQihZ014QQcategoryZ30108QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
--
Brian in TX
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/960
http://www.evdub.blogspot.com/
It may seem like I am doing nothing, but on a cellular level I'm
really quite busy.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Brian,
I use one of these in my 928 Porsche . It has speedo,
tach,odometer, trip mter,outside temp. $motor temp.
hookups. Plus it only cost $99.
http://trailtech.net/computers.html
--- Brian Pikkula <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Has anyone put a bicycle spedo (aka computer) in
> their ev? Are there
> any other options for speedometers?
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/BICYCLE-ODOMETER-SPEEDOMETER-BIKE-CYCLING-COMPUTER_W0QQitemZ330142869559QQihZ014QQcategoryZ30108QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
> --
> Brian in TX
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/960
> http://www.evdub.blogspot.com/
> It may seem like I am doing nothing, but on a
> cellular level I'm
> really quite busy.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Michaela,
As it turns out the car is very easy to drive, no self-regulating necessary.
Tom Sines
-----Original Message-----
>From: Michaela Merz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Jul 3, 2007 10:42 AM
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: Re: might be the electric car of the future
>
>
>I think this little car is great. However - I was wondering: In order to
>keep the car going straight, both motors must be in pretty good sync. How
>would one achieve that without a lot of self-regulating electronics?
>
>mm./
>
>> Hi Peekee,
>>
>> Good to hear from you. The car is experimental so we use different motors,
>> that this time we`re using smaller motors to make the car less expensive,
>> the car doesn`t care that much.
>>
>> The wheels are independent.
>>
>> Yes two curtis, two zillas would made this car go like a scalded duck.
>>
>> The car will take up to 40 batteries, we hook them up various ways.
>>
>> disc brakes.
>>
>> front wheel is not really a load bearing wheel, nor does it steer the car.
>>
>> Tom Sines
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: peekay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>Sent: Jul 3, 2007 3:29 AM
>>>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>>>Subject: Re: might be the electric car of the future
>>>
>>>9" dc motors .. one per wheel .. with differential steering
>>>
>>>interesting .. but a bit more about the 'differential' part would
>>>help understand exactly what's the technique
>>>
>>>there are 2 separate curtis controllers ? so each controls one
>>>motor ..
>>>
>>>there are 24 batteries .. in series .. so are both controllers
>>>connected to common positive/negetive terminals of the
>>>battery bank ? .. in which case 24x12 = 288 volts dc would
>>>be the driving current
>>>
>>>if the 24 batteries are divided into two banks of 12 each ..
>>>then it would be 12x12 = 144 volds dc ..
>>>
>>>and the brakes are ? disc/drum ? two pedals .. one for
>>>each tyre's brake is a good n simple idea ..
>>>
>>>will the 'castor' type front wheel wobble at high speeds ..
>>>or is the wobbling 'damped' .. if yes .. how ?
>>>
>>>..peekay
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Tom S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>To: "ev list" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>>>Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 7:20 AM
>>>Subject: might be the electric car of the future
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>>
>>>> You can see our car at electricevette.com, or on youtube at
>>>electricevette. If you e-mail us please be patient, as we get a lot of
>>>e-mail, and there are only two of us to respond. Thanks enjoy.
>>>>
>>>> Tom and Yvette
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> PeoplePC Online
>>>> A better way to Internet
>>>> http://www.peoplepc.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.10/875 - Release Date:
>>>> 6/27/2007
>>>9:08 PM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> PeoplePC Online
>> A better way to Internet
>> http://www.peoplepc.com
>>
>
________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It looks fun, looks really nice.
Let me rephrase the question that a couple of others have asked, if I may.
Have you actually tested killing one controller (or one motor) to see what
the vehicle does?
Without actual manual steering, and a motor dies, a motor cable becomes
disconnected, one side continues to motive force, and the other does not.
Suppose that safety features shut down both controllers/motors in the
event that something incorrect happens.
Does the vehicle drift in any way, or does emergency braking take place
(which can of course, create an accident also, in the event that you're
crossing a lane.. and it stops there).
How is the direction of the vehicle controlled in a turn, should a
controller shut down?
Fun or not, I'd hate to be at the mercy of a corroded wire that I somehow
missed in my weekly inspection - at any speed, in any condition, and have
the vehicle do somethng 'unexpected' - such as drift towards oncoming
traffic, or a bridge abutment...
Various vehicles I've driven in the past - when "out of alignment" -
rapidly dive towards the edge of something... such as the edge of the
road, the edge of an oncoming lane, a tree (it hates me, I can tell).
Vehicles that don't have any actual steering input outside of 'one wheel
gets slightly less power than the other' means that - when one wheel gets
'slightly less power (intentional or not)' - it goes in that direction...
Thanks for the info!
I hope that it succeeds beyond your wildest imagination!
Ed Cooley
"Tom S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
07/03/2007 11:45
Please respond to
ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To
ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
cc
Subject
Re: Evette
Hi Dan,
There again, inertia at higher soeeds is the driving force, and left and
right brake controls the car. By the way this car is really fun to drive!
Tom Sines
-----Original Message-----
>From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Jul 3, 2007 10:28 AM
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: Re: Evette
>
>what if one motor loses power and the other is full on?
>
>Tom S. wrote:
>> Hi Dan,
>>
>> Yes we`ve had it up to 60 mph, it runs great. Inertia makes the car
want to go straight.
>>
>> Tom Sines
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>>> From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Sent: Jul 3, 2007 7:53 AM
>>> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>>> Subject: Re: Evette
>>>
>>> It's a funny car but it seems like a very dangerous configuration.
have
>>> you tried driving it at high way speeds? not sure but seems to me that
>>> the slighest flick of the hand at full speed could be fatal, let alone
>>> an actual failure in the controllers.
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> PeoplePC Online
>> A better way to Internet
>> http://www.peoplepc.com
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In my Elec-Trak I have one battery wrapped with a length of 1 inch nylon web
strap.
I use the strap to lift that battery out, then I can move the others around to
where I can get a grip on them with my hands and lift them out.
The strap is used to place the last bettery in and then left wrapped around
that battery for use when I need to remove the battery, or any other battery. I
just have to remove the strapped battery first, whether it's the one I need to
get to or not.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Lee Hart
> Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 8:37 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: battery carrying straps wtb??
>
> mike golub wrote:
>> Does anyone recommend any decent pair of
>> battery carrying straps/handles???
>
> Not offhand. But I do *not* recommend carrying a battery by its terminal
>
> posts. This is a good way to crack the seals around the post so they
> leak, or even damage the internal connections.
>
> My 12 Concorde AGMs are in two boxes; 6 in front, 6 in back. The rear
> box is oversized, about 24" x 27". It was easy to lower the batteries in
>
> place (room for fingers on the sides). When one failed, I could slide
> the others over to get at the bottom to lift it out.
>
> The front box is a tight fit, 21" x 24". The last battery was lowered in
>
> using a battery carrier that attached to the posts. It just dawned on
> me that this battery was the first one to fail, with an internal open.
>
> I'm changing the pack, and discovered that 4 of the 6 batteries in that
> front box failed not from low amphour capacity, but from excessively
> high internal resistance. One of them went from high resistance to
> completely open right after lifting it out with that battery strap that
> lifts it by the terminals.
>
> I now suspect that I damaged these batteries by lifting them by the
> terminals. Though I got almost 8 years out of them, they might have
> still been going had I not done this.
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
torich1> Getting Better!!
torich1>
http://www.greenoptions.com/2007/06/28/honda_fcx_continues_evolution_of_fuel_cell_technology
So what's the range? What's the ultimate source of hydrogen atoms? How are
they produced?
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just curious how the controls for left and right brake work. Is it
pushing the stick forward in the middle for both motors full, and
both back in the middle for both brakes full?
On Jul 3, 2007, at 8:45 AM, Tom S. wrote:
Hi Dan,
There again, inertia at higher soeeds is the driving force, and
left and right brake controls the car. By the way this car is
really fun to drive!
Tom Sines
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Jul 3, 2007 10:28 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Evette
what if one motor loses power and the other is full on?
Tom S. wrote:
Hi Dan,
Yes we`ve had it up to 60 mph, it runs great. Inertia makes the
car want to go straight.
Tom Sines
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Jul 3, 2007 7:53 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Evette
It's a funny car but it seems like a very dangerous
configuration. have
you tried driving it at high way speeds? not sure but seems to
me that
the slighest flick of the hand at full speed could be fatal, let
alone
an actual failure in the controllers.
Dan
________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com
________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joseph,
The "most basic" Zilla is rated at 156v nominal and it is OK to use it at
that voltage. My Geo Prizm has a Z1K-LV and a 156v pack.
However, if you think you may be going with a higher voltage pack in the
future I'd recommend buying a higher voltage Zilla now.
Ralph
Joseph T. writes:
>
> Is it okay to use a Zilla Z1k controller (the most basic version) to
> its full nominal voltage rating of 152 volts, or does it mean its time
> to step up to the next voltage?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Depends on what model you are talking about.
T100 "Expected retail price $18,700. This car has not been designed yet as
it will require a team of engineers, tens of millions of dollars, and at
least 18 months to meet all of the safety requirements."
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: tesla car .. tango .. motor ?
peekay wrote:
1. Why should I NOT buy a Tango?
Because they cost $100,000 US? You may have much better uses for this much
money.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Lee and Roland, I see lots of 2 or 3 pole dc rated cbs on ebay
which I can wire serially as they have common tripper. Thanks
> If you batteries are a 240 volt pack, then install a 120 volt c/b in the
> middle of the pack. If the pack is larger than 240 volt than install a
> c/b for every 10 batteries or less.
>
> For every 120 volts of battery that is being charge, the C/B may see a
> maximum charging volt of 150 volts which is ok. After you are charge,
> the battery voltage should float down to 138 volts and with the first
> initial load, it should come down to 128 volts. A 120 volt c/b will
> work on these voltages.
>
> A 2 or 3 pole common trip c/b where each pole is in series, may work if
> all three poles break at the same time. The contact spacing of a
> single c/b may not be large enough to stop a arc over. Our 277/480
> c/b's are trice as large with about double the spacing of the open
> contacts.
>
> Installing two or more breakers poles in series, all you are doing is
> increasing contact spacing of the circuit if they all open up at the
> same time, but they do not. If you install two circuit breakers in
> series, one will trip and the other one may not open because there is
> no current flow at the circuit breaker which is cause by the other
> circuit breaker being open. This will normally cause a large
> interrupting arc in the breaker that opens and will reduce the life of
> the circuit breaker.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 9:15 PM
> Subject: Re: DC Circuit breaker
>
>
>> Thanks Lee, your answer and Roland's contradict each other and is
>> confusing me. So it is okay to connect 2 or more of these lower rated
>> breakers in series? Do I need to tap in between the the high voltage
>> battery string or it doesnt matter? Thanks
>>
>> Joseph.
>>
>>
>>
>> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >>> Can I put two or three of the lower voltage ones in series to get
>> the same effect?
>> >
>> > High voltage DC circuit breakers, switches, and contactors are
>> almost always made by putting enough lower-voltage contacts in
>> series. For example, if one switch contact is rated at 100v, then 2
>> in series are good for 200v, 3 in series are 300v, etc. If it's a
>> circuit breaker, you'll see 2 or 3 poles all wired in series, and
>> tripped by a common handle or other mechanical connection between
>> them.
>> >
>> > Roland is right that completely independent breakers with a
>> commoning bar between them don't always open at exactly the same
>> time. However, the time difference between when one trips and the
>> connected ones trip is very short; a small fraction of a second. The
>> contacts are built to survive that short period of arcing.
>> >
>> > Don't try putting fuses in series to increase their voltage rating,
>> though. It won't work!
>> > --
>> > Ring the bells that still can ring
>> > Forget the perfect offering
>> > There is a crack in everything
>> > That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
>> > --
>> > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
>> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One-stop CARB chaos news stop.
http://www.plugsandcars.blogspot.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom,
The polite request for info went misunderstood. This one's a bit more gruff.
So, when going down the road at 60 MPH and a stiff headwind comes
along while your front end is slightly off the ground you've designed
the car to fly in a stable manner?
Motor going out is not my concern. When a Controller goes out is what
I want to know about. What happens when, as you're going down the
road at a reasonable speed, one of the motors suddenly goes to full
power because the controller failed in a shorted condition. My guess
is you end up on your top after the car tries to do a 90 degree turn
at speed.
What is your stopping distance under emergency conditions? How
straight does it drive with the brakes locked? Can you insure that
one brake will not lock before the other in real life panic braking?
I've driven tractors with the brakes and it's not the most natural way
to control a moving vehicle.
You cut up a multi-hundred-thousand dollar car to make your Electric
vehicle out of??
Gruff mode out...
Honestly, I would have extreme concerns about someone driving that car
around me. Also, while I'd love to give it a spin I wouldn't want to
do so in traffic!
Trot, the cautious, fox...
On 7/3/07, Tom S. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Greyfoot,
For higher speeds we can put on a wheely bar.In general its not needed.
Occasionally motor has gone out, nothing much happens, inertia kicks in and I
steer it to a stop with left and right brake.
Front brake on this car is not a good idea, using plug braking, and feft and
right brake works fine.
Its a Lamborghini.
Tom Sines
--
| /\_/\ TrotFox \ Always remember,
| ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a
| >\_/< [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative."
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "TrotFox Greyfoot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Honda Insight
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 07:50:53 -0400
The other design-specific issue I had was with the EGR valve. The
possition indicator in them likes to wear out after ~50-100K miles.
When they happens the car won't cruise without shuddering until you
replace the valve to a tune of $200.
Ahhh yes, it was the EGR valve that had mine in the shop when the noticed
the leaky part, I almost forgot.
damon
_________________________________________________________________
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That computer is awesome! It would really work well if you didn't have
the ability to monitor tach and temperature somewhere else. They have
sensors that can mount in just about anything.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jeff Mccabe
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 11:50
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: bike spedos in evs
Brian,
I use one of these in my 928 Porsche . It has speedo, tach,odometer,
trip mter,outside temp. $motor temp.
hookups. Plus it only cost $99.
http://trailtech.net/computers.html
--- Brian Pikkula <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Has anyone put a bicycle spedo (aka computer) in their ev? Are there
> any other options for speedometers?
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/BICYCLE-ODOMETER-SPEEDOMETER-BIKE-CYCLING-COMPUTER_W
0QQitemZ330142869559QQihZ014QQcategoryZ30108QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
> --
> Brian in TX
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/960
> http://www.evdub.blogspot.com/
> It may seem like I am doing nothing, but on a cellular level I'm
> really quite busy.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Grayfoot,
The front wheel is not a load bearing wheel, and does not steer in any way, it
has very little effect on the car on or off the ground.
If you study controllers you will find a comtroller will not stay on more than
milliseconds if the pulse width modulator shorts out.The car also has a very
low center of gravity, very hard to tip over.
Tom Sines
-----Original Message-----
>From: TrotFox Greyfoot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Jul 3, 2007 12:42 PM
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: Re: might be the electric car of the future
>
>Tom,
>
>The polite request for info went misunderstood. This one's a bit more gruff.
>
>So, when going down the road at 60 MPH and a stiff headwind comes
>along while your front end is slightly off the ground you've designed
>the car to fly in a stable manner?
>
>Motor going out is not my concern. When a Controller goes out is what
>I want to know about. What happens when, as you're going down the
>road at a reasonable speed, one of the motors suddenly goes to full
>power because the controller failed in a shorted condition. My guess
>is you end up on your top after the car tries to do a 90 degree turn
>at speed.
>
>What is your stopping distance under emergency conditions? How
>straight does it drive with the brakes locked? Can you insure that
>one brake will not lock before the other in real life panic braking?
>I've driven tractors with the brakes and it's not the most natural way
>to control a moving vehicle.
>
>You cut up a multi-hundred-thousand dollar car to make your Electric
>vehicle out of??
>
>Gruff mode out...
>
>Honestly, I would have extreme concerns about someone driving that car
>around me. Also, while I'd love to give it a spin I wouldn't want to
>do so in traffic!
>
>Trot, the cautious, fox...
>
>On 7/3/07, Tom S. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Hi Greyfoot,
>>
>> For higher speeds we can put on a wheely bar.In general its not needed.
>>
>> Occasionally motor has gone out, nothing much happens, inertia kicks in and
>> I steer it to a stop with left and right brake.
>>
>> Front brake on this car is not a good idea, using plug braking, and feft and
>> right brake works fine.
>>
>> Its a Lamborghini.
>>
>> Tom Sines
>
>
>--
>| /\_/\ TrotFox \ Always remember,
>| ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a
>| >\_/< [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative."
>
________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Dave;
Didn't the State want a Kill button OUTSIDE the damn car, like a Big Red
Button in the BACK, OUTSIDE like the Nedra rules? That's wgat I thought that
paper sez. The state is as clueless about EV's as I am with nuclear Fissin'!
I sorta set my BIG fuseholder up in a positition in my Jetta trunk ,
planning a steel Cam Over setup you could pull outside the car, right above
where it sez; ":Led Sled" which would pop the 200 amp fuze out. If forced
onto the issue? Not crazt about an obviously marked thing like that in
public.CDOT didn't have that on any of their Forces from Solectria. CT DID
have an intreaging program, in the DOT with a few EV's. Thats wHY the
"Electric" tag is taken. I asked, was willing to actually PAY Corrupticut
for ann Electric Tag.Maybe "Lectrik" or something like that? I'm too cheap
to PAY for a specuial tag, it doesn't give me any better range? Does it?
I like your plans to Kill the car. If UI were the inspecter??OK by
me.Isn't there inertional type switch thingies in some gas rigs that kill
THEM if hit?Or what turns on the Airbags?
Of course the firepeople will probably want to hack up as many cables
they can find, in a wreck? They LOVE to do that! So try to stay consious,
after the wreck, to protect yur investment<G> They CLIMBED all over Tony's
Rabbit in Worchester during HIS fire. Christ! They coulda pushed the car to
safer ground, unharmed! Punched out a window in his Isuzu pickup! Why?
Because they COULD, to quote Tony.
What do ya do? Tow the car over to DOT in Weathersfield?This must be an
ongoing thing? I can't wait for the emmissions folks to hit me up for a
test<g>! I hope that goes as smoothly as before with the Rabbit?? They never
LOOKED at the car, took my word for it that it was electric. Do I have a
trusting voice??As a dedicated CT Taxpayer? No hassle, guy was very nice, we
chatted close to an hour!Changed my VIN to electric powered, as they SHOULD
for yur Porsche. VIN is how they go, if car was Born with a Diseasel or Gas
engine THAT'S what it is in CT's archives, until ya hit the right guy!
Good Luck
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 8:08 AM
Subject: Zilla emergency shutdown
I have to provide a means to shut down my car in an emergency. The state
wants me to provide a way
for emergency personel to shut 'er down if I run into a tree. The
emergency people want to be sure
that the pack is positively disconnected, which means the contactors are
open. My preference is to
interrupt the power at the 12 volt level so the controller will shut
itself down. I have my eye on
one of those big red buttons you mash to kill things. I'd place it in a
very prominent location
under the hood to give them the warm and fuzzies. They can also just turn
off the key in the
ignition.
Parameters:
1 - protect the Zilla
2 - sacrifice the contactors if need be
3 - make sure the system shuts down and contactors open
I have a very standard configuration with one exception. I have an
additional contactor on the
negative side of the pack which is energized when the key switch goes to
the on position. I use
the start position to tell the Zilla to start up, and it decides when to
pull in the positive side
contactor.
1. Can I use the kill switch to open the negative side contactor? It will
zorch the contactor if
it's carrying current, but will the Zilla suffer?
2. Should I interrupt the 12 volt directly to the Zilla pin 3, Key Input
(just like turning off
the key)? What will happen if under power?
3. Is there a specific connection on the Zilla for this purpose?
Thanks
Dave Cover
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.14/885 - Release Date: 7/3/2007
10:02 AM
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff, Thanks for that. Pretty cool. I looked how the tach gets a
signal and am not sure how iit would work for an ev. Where does your
tach signal come from?
Brian
On 7/3/07, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
That computer is awesome! It would really work well if you didn't have
the ability to monitor tach and temperature somewhere else. They have
sensors that can mount in just about anything.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jeff Mccabe
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 11:50
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: bike spedos in evs
Brian,
I use one of these in my 928 Porsche . It has speedo, tach,odometer,
trip mter,outside temp. $motor temp.
hookups. Plus it only cost $99.
http://trailtech.net/computers.html
--- Brian Pikkula <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Has anyone put a bicycle spedo (aka computer) in their ev? Are there
> any other options for speedometers?
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/BICYCLE-ODOMETER-SPEEDOMETER-BIKE-CYCLING-COMPUTER_W
0QQitemZ330142869559QQihZ014QQcategoryZ30108QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
> --
> Brian in TX
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/960
> http://www.evdub.blogspot.com/
> It may seem like I am doing nothing, but on a cellular level I'm
> really quite busy.
>
>
--
Brian in TX
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/960
http://www.evdub.blogspot.com/
It may seem like I am doing nothing, but on a cellular level I'm
really quite busy.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom Sines? Any relation to JIM Sines, who was in the Connecticut DOT EV
program, years ago?Aren't very many Sines around<g>?
A Sine of the times? Sorry! Couldn't resist. Interesting car ya got in
the works.
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Dan,
Left and right brake are on the floor, joy stick is for steerimg and speed.
Tom Sines
-----Original Message-----
>From: Ian Page-Echols <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Jul 3, 2007 12:09 PM
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: Re: Evette
>
>Just curious how the controls for left and right brake work. Is it
>pushing the stick forward in the middle for both motors full, and
>both back in the middle for both brakes full?
>
>
>On Jul 3, 2007, at 8:45 AM, Tom S. wrote:
>
>> Hi Dan,
>>
>> There again, inertia at higher soeeds is the driving force, and
>> left and right brake controls the car. By the way this car is
>> really fun to drive!
>>
>> Tom Sines
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Sent: Jul 3, 2007 10:28 AM
>>> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>>> Subject: Re: Evette
>>>
>>> what if one motor loses power and the other is full on?
>>>
>>> Tom S. wrote:
>>>> Hi Dan,
>>>>
>>>> Yes we`ve had it up to 60 mph, it runs great. Inertia makes the
>>>> car want to go straight.
>>>>
>>>> Tom Sines
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>
>>>>> From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>> Sent: Jul 3, 2007 7:53 AM
>>>>> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>>>>> Subject: Re: Evette
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a funny car but it seems like a very dangerous
>>>>> configuration. have
>>>>> you tried driving it at high way speeds? not sure but seems to
>>>>> me that
>>>>> the slighest flick of the hand at full speed could be fatal, let
>>>>> alone
>>>>> an actual failure in the controllers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> PeoplePC Online
>>>> A better way to Internet
>>>> http://www.peoplepc.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> PeoplePC Online
>> A better way to Internet
>> http://www.peoplepc.com
>>
>
________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ever consider what happens in a more conventional car when the steering
system fails?
Ball joints, tie rods, a little bit of metal gets jammed in the gears in
the steering box, etc..
Same thing would happen with this car, you no longer have full control or
any control.
This car could at least have two independent systems for directional
control, the motors and differential braking.
At 11:42 AM 7/3/2007, you wrote:
Tom,
The polite request for info went misunderstood. This one's a bit more gruff.
So, when going down the road at 60 MPH and a stiff headwind comes
along while your front end is slightly off the ground you've designed
the car to fly in a stable manner?
Motor going out is not my concern. When a Controller goes out is what
I want to know about. What happens when, as you're going down the
road at a reasonable speed, one of the motors suddenly goes to full
power because the controller failed in a shorted condition. My guess
is you end up on your top after the car tries to do a 90 degree turn
at speed.
What is your stopping distance under emergency conditions? How
straight does it drive with the brakes locked? Can you insure that
one brake will not lock before the other in real life panic braking?
I've driven tractors with the brakes and it's not the most natural way
to control a moving vehicle.
You cut up a multi-hundred-thousand dollar car to make your Electric
vehicle out of??
Gruff mode out...
Honestly, I would have extreme concerns about someone driving that car
around me. Also, while I'd love to give it a spin I wouldn't want to
do so in traffic!
Trot, the cautious, fox...
--
| /\_/\ TrotFox \ Always remember,
| ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a
| >\_/< [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative."
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
