EV Digest 6993
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: conversions
by "Tom S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: conversions
by "Tom S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: bike speedos in evs
by david brunson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: conversions
by "TrotFox Greyfoot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Honda Fuel Cell - did I miss 20 years somewhere?
by "Seth Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: how much dc to get about 450 v ac
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: how much dc to get about 450 v ac
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Zilla emergency shutdown
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: High voltage cable protection and color coding
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: A Welder as a Power Supply
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) the eVette
by "Michael Wendell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Vicor power supplies as DC-DC ?
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Motor Inquiry And Response
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Vicor power supplies as DC-DC ?
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Motors
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) END THREAD Re: Free energy (OT)
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Honda Fuel Cell - did I miss 20 years somewhere?
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Tesla Roadster Battery Pack
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Tesla Roadster Battery Pack
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Vicor power supplies as DC-DC ?
by "TrotFox Greyfoot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Tesla Roadster Battery Pack
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: the eVette
by "Tom S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: the eVette
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jack,
It is essentially a two wheel car,however its not at all like segway.I just put
that body on it to get your attention, I think it worked.We are building a 4
seater jeep at this time,it will be less expensive than a conversion,and will
go farther.
Tom Sines
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Jul 4, 2007 4:58 PM
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: Re: conversions
>
>There is very little information on the website about the car or its
>construction or design, what its advantages or disadvantages are.
>I will assure you without that, few will pay attention, least of all
>investors. From what I gather, it is essentially a two-wheel car-sized
>segway. It is impressive that Mr. Sines has built it, and it works!
>Let me give my feedback. Use a different body, one fit for the design,
>or none at all.
>
>An ability to turn in place is great for fork-lifts, but there is no
>need for that feature in a car. What I see as the main advantage is the
>reduction in parts and thus cost to build it compared to 3 or 4 wheel
>cars with their required steering mechanism. But there must be a
>mechanism to maintain stability as weight shifts when momentum changes.
>The bouncing seen in the rather short video indicates this problem is
>not solved.
>
>This car in no way addresses the issue of batteries for EVs, which is
>and has been the major issue for EVs.
>
>Jack
>
>Roger Stockton wrote:
>> Tom S. wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Thought you would never ask, go to electricevette.com see ya.
>>
>>
>> An interesting vehicle... Your webpage refers to it as a "car", but it
>> is actually registered as a motorcycle (and would not actually be legal
>> as either in some places ;^).
>>
>> So, what is the advantage you see for this vehicle design over
>> conventional 4-wheeled EVs?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Roger.
>>
>>
>
________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rodger,
Yes it is a motorcycle, that means no insurance in Florida. The advantages
are,it holds more batteries so it will go farther on a charge.It will out
maneuver any 4wheel car any time, and its fun to drive.It also has 2 motors
twice the power.
Tom Sines
-----Original Message-----
>From: Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Jul 4, 2007 4:58 PM
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: RE: conversions
>
>Tom S. wrote:
>
>> Thought you would never ask, go to electricevette.com see ya.
>
>An interesting vehicle... Your webpage refers to it as a "car", but it
>is actually registered as a motorcycle (and would not actually be legal
>as either in some places ;^).
>
>So, what is the advantage you see for this vehicle design over
>conventional 4-wheeled EVs?
>
>Cheers,
>
>Roger.
>
________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com
--- End Message ---
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--- Begin Message ---
Tom,
If I'm ever down Florida-way we'll have to run yours and mine through
a slalom. I'm unconvinced that my "normal" 4-wheeler is less
maneuverable than your 3 wheeler.
Trot, the certain, fox...
On 7/5/07, Tom S. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Rodger,
Yes it is a motorcycle, that means no insurance in Florida. The advantages
are,it holds more batteries so it will go farther on a charge.It will out
maneuver any 4wheel car any time, and its fun to drive.It also has 2 motors
twice the power.
Tom Sines
--
| /\_/\ TrotFox \ Always remember,
| ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a
| >\_/< [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative."
--- End Message ---
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello Owen,
110kw/746 = 147.45 hp.
At 90% output = 133.705 hp.
According to my motor handbook:
A 3 phase motor of about 150 hp on 230 volts requires 400 amp per phase
which is 120 degrees apart.
A DC motor at 150 hp requires:
506 amps at 240 volts
246 amps at 500 volts
222 amps at 550 volts
Requires a 3.5 inch conduit for two conductors of DC
Requires a 4.0 inch conduit for three conductors of AC
A DC to AC inverter or call a cycloinverter for transforming DC to AC and
AC to polyphase or 3 phase. This units requires many stages where one stage
(a single ended inverter for transforming DC to AC) which may cost as much
as $10,000.00 per stage.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "owen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "ev info" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 4:44 AM
Subject: how much dc to get about 450 v ac
hi to all
I found a 110kw ac 3 phase motor and I would like to know much dc is needed
to run it and if there is an efficient way to convert it to ac
thank you all love reading your email's and I am learning a lot
Owen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Owen,
To run a 3 phase AC motor from DC, you'll need a 3
phase inverter. The DC voltage input to the inverter
is about 1.4 times the AC voltage output to the motor.
I've done this for 230 volt AC motors with 312 volt
DC. With batteries, you get the sag, so you'd
probably want to be up to 350 volts DC or so.
How big is that 110 kW sucker? If it is an industrial
motor, it is probably 460 VAC. Means you'd want about
700 volts DC.
You know the EV-One had a 100 kW three phase AC motor
and 312 volt battery (PbAcid) and went to 348 volt, I
think, on the NiMHyd battery.
Jeff
--- owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> hi to all
> I found a 110kw ac 3 phase motor and I would like to
> know much dc is needed to run it and if there is an
> efficient way to convert it to ac
> thank you all love reading your email's and I am
> learning a lot
> Owen
____________________________________________________________________________________
Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the
tools to get online.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Roland! I think my 1990 Nissan has one of these. Sometimes when
I spin out or really hit the brakes it runs like a dog. All I have to
do is shut the key off and restart it and it goes away. I bet there is
some kind of logic in the computer that makes the engine run in a "limp
mode" when the inertia switch is tripped.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 16:01
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Zilla emergency shutdown
So after you hit something hard enough to activate the inertia switch,
how do you reset it?
If it auto resets itself type, then your ignition system needs to be
wire in a momentary holding circuit. The ignition on position sets
ignition relay and move to the start position if require to activated
the main contactor circuit. Releasing the ignition switch open both
start and ignition circuit to the relay which is held close by a extra
relay contact that bypasses the ignition on circuit.
To reset this relay, you need to shut off the ignition switch and back
on again.
Of course you knew that.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: Zilla emergency shutdown
> Just google interia switch and you'll find some stuff. The only
> problem is that the interia switches have a "g" rating. I am assuming
> it is the range of g's that make the switch cut off. Does anyone know
> the g's you ecounter in an accident?
>
> On 7/3/07, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > I think you could get one from any ford car. They are in the back
by
> > the fuel tank. If you hit the car hard enough they shut the fuel
pump
> > off.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> > Behalf Of Chip Gribben
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 14:40
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: Re: Zilla emergency shutdown
> >
> > How about an inertia switch?
> >
> > Ford has these on their cars, I think. You hit something it turns
the
> > car off. I think the Tour de Sol cars had to have these but can't
recall
> > and anyone get easily get one.
> >
> > I opened one up years ago. I think it had a ball bearing or
something
> > inside that would release upon impact and strike a relay. It was
mounted
> > under the dash on the firewall. It's all a 12 volt affair so it
would be
> > just like any other relay in series with the key switch.
> >
> > I think it's on the Electric Ford Ranger, but I'm sure you can get
them
> > somewhere.
> >
> > These folks are going overboard on the safety issue as far as an
> > emergency kill switch. Are they going to require the same thing on
OEMs.
> >
> > Granted we do at NEDRA but even the gassers have to have an
emergency
> > cut off switch on the back.
> >
> > Chip Gribben
> > NEDRA
> > http://www.nedra.com
> >
> >
> > On Jul 3, 2007, at 1:31 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
> >
> > > From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Date: July 3, 2007 1:23:12 PM EDT
> > > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > > Subject: Re: Zilla emergency shutdown
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Dave;
> > >
> > > Didn't the State want a Kill button OUTSIDE the damn car, like a
Big
> > > Red Button in the BACK, OUTSIDE like the Nedra rules? That's wgat
I
> > > thought that paper sez. The state is as clueless about EV's as I
am
> > > with nuclear Fissin'! I sorta set my BIG fuseholder up in a
positition
> >
> > > in my Jetta trunk , planning a steel Cam Over setup you could pull
> > > outside the car, right above where it sez; ":Led Sled"
> > > which would pop the 200 amp fuze out. If forced onto the issue?
Not
> > > crazt about an obviously marked thing like that in public.CDOT
didn't
> > > have that on any of their Forces from Solectria. CT DID have an
> > > intreaging program, in the DOT with a few EV's. Thats wHY the
> > > "Electric" tag is taken. I asked, was willing to actually PAY
> > > Corrupticut for ann Electric Tag.Maybe "Lectrik" or something like
> > > that? I'm too cheap to PAY for a specuial tag, it doesn't give me
any
> > > better range? Does it?
> > >
> > > I like your plans to Kill the car. If UI were the inspecter??OK
by
> > > me.Isn't there inertional type switch thingies in some gas rigs
that
> > > kill THEM if hit?Or what turns on the Airbags?
> > >
> > > Of course the firepeople will probably want to hack up as many
> > > cables they can find, in a wreck? They LOVE to do that! So try to
stay
> >
> > > consious, after the wreck, to protect yur investment<G> They
CLIMBED
> > > all over Tony's Rabbit in Worchester during HIS fire.
> > > Christ! They coulda pushed the car to safer ground, unharmed!
> > > Punched out a window in his Isuzu pickup! Why? Because they COULD,
to
> > > quote Tony.
> > >
> > > What do ya do? Tow the car over to DOT in Weathersfield?This must
be
> > > an ongoing thing? I can't wait for the emmissions folks to hit me
up
> > > for a test<g>! I hope that goes as smoothly as before with the
> > > Rabbit?? They never LOOKED at the car, took my word for it that it
was
> >
> > > electric. Do I have a trusting voice??As a dedicated CT Taxpayer?
No
> > > hassle, guy was very nice, we chatted close to an hour!
> > > Changed my VIN to electric powered, as they SHOULD for yur
Porsche.
> > > VIN is how they go, if car was Born with a Diseasel or Gas engine
> > > THAT'S what it is in CT's archives, until ya hit the right guy!
> > >
> > > Good Luck
> > >
> > > Bob
> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Cover"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 8:08 AM
> > > Subject: Zilla emergency shutdown
> > >
> > >
> > >> I have to provide a means to shut down my car in an emergency.
The
> > >> state wants me to provide a way for emergency personel to shut
'er
> > >> down if I run into a tree. The emergency people want to be sure
that
> > >> the pack is positively disconnected, which means the contactors
are
> > >> open. My preference is to interrupt the power at the 12 volt
level so
> >
> > >> the controller will shut itself down. I have my eye on one of
those
> > >> big red buttons you mash to kill things. I'd place it in a very
> > >> prominent location under the hood to give them the warm and
fuzzies.
> > >> They can also just turn off the key in the ignition.
> > >>
> > >> Parameters:
> > >> 1 - protect the Zilla
> > >> 2 - sacrifice the contactors if need be
> > >> 3 - make sure the system shuts down and contactors open
> > >>
> > >> I have a very standard configuration with one exception. I have
an
> > >> additional contactor on the negative side of the pack which is
> > >> energized when the key switch goes to the on position. I use the
> > >> start position to tell the Zilla to start up, and it decides when
to
> > >> pull in the positive side contactor.
> > >>
> > >> 1. Can I use the kill switch to open the negative side contactor?
> > >> It will zorch the contactor if
> > >> it's carrying current, but will the Zilla suffer?
> > >>
> > >> 2. Should I interrupt the 12 volt directly to the Zilla pin 3,
Key
> > >> Input (just like turning off the key)? What will happen if under
> > >> power?
> > >>
> > >> 3. Is there a specific connection on the Zilla for this purpose?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks
> > >>
> > >> Dave Cover
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> > >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > >> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.14/885 - Release Date:
> > >> 7/3/2007 10:02 AM
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Couldn't you just buy regular cable and cover it with orange electrical
tape? It just has to identify it as the disconnect.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Christopher Robison
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 18:11
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: High voltage cable protection and color coding
On Tue, 2007-07-03 at 14:37 -0700, Roger Stockton wrote:
> I wonder if I might be better off sticking with grey rather than
> mixing colours and confusing someone into thinking that the grey
> flexible conduit is safe to cut through since the orange rigid lengths
> ~must~ be the high voltage ones? ;^> Maybe someone will solve my
> dilemma by advising that the flexible conduit is available in orange
also?
It is, but I've found that it's extremely expensive. Flexible
nonmetallic conduit in orange is typically a variation rated for high
continuous flexing (2 layers of PVC with a layer of nylon between them)
which I can't find for a reasonable price anywhere. The cheapest I've
found for 1.5" (large enough for 2 2/0 cables) is approximately $1100
for a 100' coil. Compare to the normal grey stuff I just bought at less
than 1/5th that price.
Incidentally, I might as well mention we're starting a conversion
business in the Austin, TX area, and as a side business we'll also be
selling certain parts and materials. Some relevant items we'll be
offering are orange Anderson connectors of various sizes and bright
orange 600V fine-strand welding cable, custom lengths; we'll even crimp
ends on (with boots and heavy adhesive shrink-wrapped hex crimps, the
whole nine yards).
If anyone's interested, contact me off-list.
--
Christopher Robison
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Joe,
I have done that. With welders about 10 KVA. Set to
CV and power with the welder output to a 36/48 volt
motor and controller. Also did it without a PWM
controller by using field control on the welder
generator for motor speed control. Did this because
the welder was needed for a mobile application.
It was somewhat small vehicle and limited speed, so
well suited for the 42 volt output. Never tried the
110/220 AC outputs for traction, put they sure come in
handy for a lot of other things.
Most welders are noisey and dirty. Propane helps a
little. I doubt you'd want one driving around on
surface roads.
Jeff
--- Joseph Lado <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I was just thinking. Has anyone tried to use a
> welder to change the AC power of a generator to the
> DC power needed to run a DC EV? I have been thinking
> of creating a range extending generator power supply
> for my EV, but I haven't figured out how to get the
> AC to DC in high enough DC voltage and amps to keep
> my car going. I can cruse at 50 plus miles an hour
> at about 50 amps. My battery pack is a 108 volt
> pack. I have found welders that have a 110 volt
> output with different amp outputs some vary from 20
> amps to 300 amps. Could I rig up a combination that
> would give me the volts and amps I need to keep
> going without, well welding everything in my car
> together?
>
> joE ladO
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
i'm sorry, i have to weigh in on this.
mike chancey asked:
> Okay Tom, so now that you have outlined the problem
> as you see it, what are you suggesting as a solution?
tom sines replied:
> Thought you would never ask, go to electricevette.com
there are no answers on that site. it's a few small pictures of the 'car', a
brief statement, and links to some videos which don't offer much in the way
of information. if you have something to contribute, then we're all ears. if
all you're looking to do is promote the eVette to investors, well, you've
probably come to the wrong place.
tom sines also simplistically stated:
> It will out maneuver any 4wheel car any time
it will absolutely, unequivocally NOT outmaneuver any car at any time. yes,
sure, at slow speeds, in extremely tight maneuvers, it will perform
wonderfully, and outperform a car, but so will a forklift. get it into real
world, higher speed situations and it is a disaster waiting to happen. if
you'd like to prove your statement, simply show up at any SCCA autocross and
race the thing. if you can beat even half the cars that show up, i'll eat my
hat. hell, better yet, you finish in the top half and i'll pay your entry
fees.
here's the local schedule, registration is still open for the july 22 event
in deland. there are also events in brooksville and sebring. i think you're
right around the corner from sebring, correct?
http://www.cfrsolo2.com/schedule.php
tom sines also said:
> It also has 2 motors twice the power.
that statement is simply silly. how big are the motors? twice the power of
what? without qualification, that's just rubbish.
you were asked if it was a fiero re-body kit, and you replied it was a
lamborghini. yes, we all recognize the countach shape, the question was if
it was a kit for a fiero. i guess i can understand the confusion, but you
seem to want to keep us in the dark or play games with your brief answers,
referring us to the website for answers, a website which really doesn't
provide us with any information.
tom sines also said:
> I just put that body on it to get your attention,
> I think it worked.
covering yourself with poo also gets attention, but are you sure you're
getting the kind of attention you want? the body so obviously doesn't fit
the character of the vehicle. the countach's planform is incredibly square,
with big, sharp, overhanging front corners, watching them bob around when
the vehicle is under power or turning simply points out how poorly the body
fits the design.
tom, you may have something wonderful here, but you're presenting it in a
way that makes it very hard to digest. instead of telling us that this is
the future, tell us why you made these choices. instead of telling us that
you can store more batteries than a conversion, tell us how many and what
kind you're using, maybe what you want to use in the future. instead of
answering questions with statements like 'now you're on the right track'
give us some real information.
otherwise, the whole thing reeks of snake oil. this list isn't chock full of
potential investors, don't sell us. instead, use the list as a resource to
make your potentially revolutionary product better. there are some amazingly
talented and brilliant people on the list who are incredibly helpful if you
give them the chance to be.
one other thing though, have a thick skin. people will question your
decisions, and you may have to defend those decisions in a serious and
thoughful manner. be aware though, that the talent on this list may also
make you realize that you've made some poor choices, and may need to rethink
things. if you're open to that possibility, the list can only help make the
eVette better.
m.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John,
The basic Vicor unit is a DC/DC converter. When in a
flatpac, they put a front end to rectify AC. If you
have the correct DC voltage input, I think it would
work going right thru the rectifier.
The Vicor DC/DC units I have used are isolated and can
be put in series on the output side while using a
single input. And have adjustment via external
circuit, simple voltage divider, IIRC.
Jeff
--- "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> One of my surplus catalogs has some Vicor power
> supplies with
> 100V-240VAC input, and 5V @ 40A output.
> a) How likely are these to work on DC?
> b) Can I put 3 outputs in series (and turned down a
> little) to get
> 14V (or whatever)?
> $35 ea is pretty cheap.
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
TV dinner still cooling?
Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
http://tv.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rob,
What they did, and you should have done, is take the
speed (1500 RPM) times the torque (100 lb.ft.) and
divide by 5252. Gives 28.56 HP. Multiply by 745.6.
Gives 21295 Watts. Divide by 24 volts. Gives 887
amps. Even at 800 RPM, 473 amps.
All that at 100 percent motor efficiency and no
battery sag (a stiff 24 volts at motor terminals).
If you assume this is peak power from the battery, sag
will take you to 12 volts. Assume 50 percent motor
efficiency. Then the 1500 RPM case requires 3549
amps.
You can see why most EVs use a higher voltage.
Hope this helps.
Jeff
--- Rob Hogenmiller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I recently contacted a company with interest in
> motor.
> Also is there response. I was wondering if anyone
> could confirm their
> information.
>
> MY INQUIRY:
>
> I was wondering what 24v motor would you recommend.
>
> I'm hoping to find one that can produce 100ft/lbs of
> torque around
> 800-2200rpm range.
>
> THEIR RESPONSE
>
> Thanks for your inquiry.
> If your parameters are correct, that Motor, at a
> nomimal speed of 1500 RPM,
> would need to develop 28.55 HP, according to my
> calculations..
> At 24 Volts, you'd need 887 Amps of current to
> achieve that torque.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:23 AM 7/5/2007, Jeff Major wrote:
The basic Vicor unit is a DC/DC converter. When in a
flatpac, they put a front end to rectify AC. If you
have the correct DC voltage input, I think it would
work going right thru the rectifier.
Yeah, but I just found the specs for this unit online. It doesn't
have a 100-240V input range.
It has a 100-120/200-240VAC input range. Same as an IOTA.
I need something with a 130-200VDC input range.
Using 3 of these 5V units would be around $100, which is pretty
cheap, but I'm not sure if the voltage range is workable.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Go to G-mail, there you can select plain formatting. We can't read the
rich formatting.
On 7/4/07, Sam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
--------------Boundary-00=_KPDOSPT1VA4000000000"
X-Mailer: IncrediMail (5653017)
From: "Sam--
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Please end this thread NOW.
Discussions of "free energy" and "overunity" devices have no place on the
EVDL. If you want to discuss this matter further, please do so in private
email.
>From http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
"Avoid posting about perpetual motion machines, overunity devices, and
anything else that appears to violate the laws of physics."
If you have a comment about this policy, please don't waste EVDL bandwidth
- contact me by private email. My private address is at the bottom of the
above page.
David Roden
EVDL Administrator
http://www.evdl.org/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Go to Gmail where we can read your e-mails with plain formatting
On 7/5/07, Seth Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Tesla Roadster battery pack has 6,831 cells. The Tesla Roadster,
I've heard, is supposed to be 375 volts. Hmm...Lithium Ion batteries
are rated at 3.6 nominal voltage. So....3.6 volts times 6,831 cells
obviously doesn't equal 375 volts!!! What's going on here?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
multiple parallel strings.
On 7/5/07, Joseph T. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The Tesla Roadster battery pack has 6,831 cells. The Tesla Roadster,
I've heard, is supposed to be 375 volts. Hmm...Lithium Ion batteries
are rated at 3.6 nominal voltage. So....3.6 volts times 6,831 cells
obviously doesn't equal 375 volts!!! What's going on here?
--
Zeke Yewdall
Chief Electrical Engineer
Sunflower Solar, A NewPoint Energy Company
Cell: 720.352.2508
Office: 303.459.0177
FAX documents to: 720.269.1240
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.cosunflower.com
CoSEIA Certified
Certified BP Solar Installer
National Association of Home Builders
Quotable Quote
"In the dark of the moon, in flying snow,
in the dead of winter, war spreading,
families dying, the world in danger,
I walk the rocky hillside
sowing clover."
Wendell Berry
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, 120V AC RMS is something like 170V peak after rectifying so that
may be useful to you?
120/.707=169.73
That's the highest voltage the input caps would be expected to see.
Trot, the electrically minded, fox...
On 7/5/07, John G. Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Yeah, but I just found the specs for this unit online. It doesn't
have a 100-240V input range.
It has a 100-120/200-240VAC input range. Same as an IOTA.
I need something with a 130-200VDC input range.
Using 3 of these 5V units would be around $100, which is pretty
cheap, but I'm not sure if the voltage range is workable.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--
| /\_/\ TrotFox \ Always remember,
| ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a
| >\_/< [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative."
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
11 modules. 6831 cells. 621 cells per module. 3.6 volts tmes 11 is
about 40 volts. (that doesn't make sense!)
I'm assuming that within each module is even more multiple parallel strings?
On 7/5/07, Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
multiple parallel strings.
On 7/5/07, Joseph T. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The Tesla Roadster battery pack has 6,831 cells. The Tesla Roadster,
> I've heard, is supposed to be 375 volts. Hmm...Lithium Ion batteries
> are rated at 3.6 nominal voltage. So....3.6 volts times 6,831 cells
> obviously doesn't equal 375 volts!!! What's going on here?
>
>
--
Zeke Yewdall
Chief Electrical Engineer
Sunflower Solar, A NewPoint Energy Company
Cell: 720.352.2508
Office: 303.459.0177
FAX documents to: 720.269.1240
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.cosunflower.com
CoSEIA Certified
Certified BP Solar Installer
National Association of Home Builders
Quotable Quote
"In the dark of the moon, in flying snow,
in the dead of winter, war spreading,
families dying, the world in danger,
I walk the rocky hillside
sowing clover."
Wendell Berry
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Michael,
Come on over to Okeechobee Florida,I`ll give you a ride you will never forget.
Tom Sines
-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Wendell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Jul 5, 2007 10:16 AM
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: the eVette
>
>
>i'm sorry, i have to weigh in on this.
>
>mike chancey asked:
>> Okay Tom, so now that you have outlined the problem
>> as you see it, what are you suggesting as a solution?
>
>tom sines replied:
>> Thought you would never ask, go to electricevette.com
>
>there are no answers on that site. it's a few small pictures of the 'car', a
>brief statement, and links to some videos which don't offer much in the way
>of information. if you have something to contribute, then we're all ears. if
>all you're looking to do is promote the eVette to investors, well, you've
>probably come to the wrong place.
>
>tom sines also simplistically stated:
>> It will out maneuver any 4wheel car any time
>
>it will absolutely, unequivocally NOT outmaneuver any car at any time. yes,
>sure, at slow speeds, in extremely tight maneuvers, it will perform
>wonderfully, and outperform a car, but so will a forklift. get it into real
>world, higher speed situations and it is a disaster waiting to happen. if
>you'd like to prove your statement, simply show up at any SCCA autocross and
>race the thing. if you can beat even half the cars that show up, i'll eat my
>hat. hell, better yet, you finish in the top half and i'll pay your entry
>fees.
>
>here's the local schedule, registration is still open for the july 22 event
>in deland. there are also events in brooksville and sebring. i think you're
>right around the corner from sebring, correct?
>http://www.cfrsolo2.com/schedule.php
>
>tom sines also said:
>> It also has 2 motors twice the power.
>
>that statement is simply silly. how big are the motors? twice the power of
>what? without qualification, that's just rubbish.
>
>you were asked if it was a fiero re-body kit, and you replied it was a
>lamborghini. yes, we all recognize the countach shape, the question was if
>it was a kit for a fiero. i guess i can understand the confusion, but you
>seem to want to keep us in the dark or play games with your brief answers,
>referring us to the website for answers, a website which really doesn't
>provide us with any information.
>
>tom sines also said:
>> I just put that body on it to get your attention,
>> I think it worked.
>
>covering yourself with poo also gets attention, but are you sure you're
>getting the kind of attention you want? the body so obviously doesn't fit
>the character of the vehicle. the countach's planform is incredibly square,
>with big, sharp, overhanging front corners, watching them bob around when
>the vehicle is under power or turning simply points out how poorly the body
>fits the design.
>
>tom, you may have something wonderful here, but you're presenting it in a
>way that makes it very hard to digest. instead of telling us that this is
>the future, tell us why you made these choices. instead of telling us that
>you can store more batteries than a conversion, tell us how many and what
>kind you're using, maybe what you want to use in the future. instead of
>answering questions with statements like 'now you're on the right track'
>give us some real information.
>
>otherwise, the whole thing reeks of snake oil. this list isn't chock full of
>potential investors, don't sell us. instead, use the list as a resource to
>make your potentially revolutionary product better. there are some amazingly
>talented and brilliant people on the list who are incredibly helpful if you
>give them the chance to be.
>
>one other thing though, have a thick skin. people will question your
>decisions, and you may have to defend those decisions in a serious and
>thoughful manner. be aware though, that the talent on this list may also
>make you realize that you've made some poor choices, and may need to rethink
>things. if you're open to that possibility, the list can only help make the
>eVette better.
>
>m.
>
________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom,
I am confused about the design. Do you have any pictures of the
underside?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom S.
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 11:38
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: the eVette
Hi Michael,
Come on over to Okeechobee Florida,I`ll give you a ride you will never
forget.
Tom Sines
-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Wendell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Jul 5, 2007 10:16 AM
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: the eVette
>
>
>i'm sorry, i have to weigh in on this.
>
>mike chancey asked:
>> Okay Tom, so now that you have outlined the problem as you see it,
>> what are you suggesting as a solution?
>
>tom sines replied:
>> Thought you would never ask, go to electricevette.com
>
>there are no answers on that site. it's a few small pictures of the
>'car', a brief statement, and links to some videos which don't offer
>much in the way of information. if you have something to contribute,
>then we're all ears. if all you're looking to do is promote the eVette
>to investors, well, you've probably come to the wrong place.
>
>tom sines also simplistically stated:
>> It will out maneuver any 4wheel car any time
>
>it will absolutely, unequivocally NOT outmaneuver any car at any time.
>yes, sure, at slow speeds, in extremely tight maneuvers, it will
>perform wonderfully, and outperform a car, but so will a forklift. get
>it into real world, higher speed situations and it is a disaster
>waiting to happen. if you'd like to prove your statement, simply show
>up at any SCCA autocross and race the thing. if you can beat even half
>the cars that show up, i'll eat my hat. hell, better yet, you finish in
>the top half and i'll pay your entry fees.
>
>here's the local schedule, registration is still open for the july 22
>event in deland. there are also events in brooksville and sebring. i
>think you're right around the corner from sebring, correct?
>http://www.cfrsolo2.com/schedule.php
>
>tom sines also said:
>> It also has 2 motors twice the power.
>
>that statement is simply silly. how big are the motors? twice the power
>of what? without qualification, that's just rubbish.
>
>you were asked if it was a fiero re-body kit, and you replied it was a
>lamborghini. yes, we all recognize the countach shape, the question was
>if it was a kit for a fiero. i guess i can understand the confusion,
>but you seem to want to keep us in the dark or play games with your
>brief answers, referring us to the website for answers, a website which
>really doesn't provide us with any information.
>
>tom sines also said:
>> I just put that body on it to get your attention, I think it worked.
>
>covering yourself with poo also gets attention, but are you sure you're
>getting the kind of attention you want? the body so obviously doesn't
>fit the character of the vehicle. the countach's planform is incredibly
>square, with big, sharp, overhanging front corners, watching them bob
>around when the vehicle is under power or turning simply points out how
>poorly the body fits the design.
>
>tom, you may have something wonderful here, but you're presenting it in
>a way that makes it very hard to digest. instead of telling us that
>this is the future, tell us why you made these choices. instead of
>telling us that you can store more batteries than a conversion, tell us
>how many and what kind you're using, maybe what you want to use in the
>future. instead of answering questions with statements like 'now you're
on the right track'
>give us some real information.
>
>otherwise, the whole thing reeks of snake oil. this list isn't chock
>full of potential investors, don't sell us. instead, use the list as a
>resource to make your potentially revolutionary product better. there
>are some amazingly talented and brilliant people on the list who are
>incredibly helpful if you give them the chance to be.
>
>one other thing though, have a thick skin. people will question your
>decisions, and you may have to defend those decisions in a serious and
>thoughful manner. be aware though, that the talent on this list may
>also make you realize that you've made some poor choices, and may need
>to rethink things. if you're open to that possibility, the list can
>only help make the eVette better.
>
>m.
>
________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com
--- End Message ---
