EV Digest 6999
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Generator powered by vibrations was: Re: Free Energy
by Henry Heng <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Power loss in cables, was: bury batts was: Re: Free Energy
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Setting a Battery on Concrete Myth Answered
by Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Generator powered by vibrations was: Re: Free Energy
by "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Nissan/Datsun speedometer cable HELP
by Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Setting a Battery on Concrete Myth Answered
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Nissan/Datsun speedometer cable HELP
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) EVs near NY City
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) EV world map
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Searching Past Posts
by "Rob Hogenmiller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Stoern Energy
by "Rob Hogenmiller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Wheels and load
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Stoern Energy
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Setting a Battery on Concrete Myth Answered
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Conversion Classes in The Bay?
by jmmistrot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Hypothetical use of A123 cells
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) VW pickup EV for sale - Paul "neon" G conversion
by Don Buckshot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: EV world map
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Dessicant
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: EV world map
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Steel
by "David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Setting a Battery on Concrete Myth Answered
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Stoern Energy
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Searching Past Posts
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Ping
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) DO NOT REPLY: Re: Stoern Energy
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Conversion Classes in The Bay?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Hypothetical use of A123 cells
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) A hot day in the valley
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Honda Civic Crankshaft?
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I made a search on that recently as well. It's a technology pioneered by
Seiko, marketed under the Kinetic brand. Basically, a rotating pendulum
attached to a mini-generator inside the watch.
Wanted to check out the specs of the generator, but couldn't find any
technical info on the net.
Zeke Yewdall wrote:
Does anyone remember the self winding wrist watches? My dad still
wears his every day. This sounds like the electrical equivalent of
that. Sort of neat, but not applicable to EV's all.....
On 7/6/07, Henry Heng <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
This is what I'd call free energy.
"The tiny device, which is less than one cubic centimetre in size, uses
vibrations in the world around it to make magnets on a cantilever at the
heart of the device wobble to generate power."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6272752.stm
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--- Begin Message ---
The grid uses AC.
This causes a loss from current to charge and discharge
120 times per second the capacitance that is formed
by the cable isolation as the dielectricum and the
'plates' formed by the cable itself plus either
shielding or adjacent cable or the earth if it is an
unshielded cable (not likely, as you would dig right
into the high voltage if you are backhoe'ing away....
On short runs, the losses are very little, but if you
are running miles and miles of HV cable, then the
capacitance becomes significant and therefor the
loss caused by the charging current becomes large.
One power-line from (IIRC) Denmark to Sweden, through the
sea straight was so long that the only way to avoid a
massive loss was to convert the AC to DC and transport
it at extremely high voltage (low current) as a DC
voltage through the cable.
To further save costs, they used the sea as "return",
so they had a single isolated cable without shielding
and half an electrolyser on each side in the sea to
complete the circuit. Don't know if they switch polarity
from time to time to avoid an electrochemical migration.
Overhead lines have a very small capacitance, as the
"plates" are small and the distance between them large
and low in dielectric constant (air instead of isolation)
so the losses from this capacitance and the resulting
current are much lower.
Hth,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of patrick DonEgan
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 2:21 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: bury batts was: Re: Free Energy
Well, years ago when the electric company out here (called HELCO ;) was
putting up poles in virgin land - and getting complaints - showed us some
data on the losses of "undergrounding" the power cables as compared to
blocking the ocean views. I dont have that data anymore. At that time I had
discussed it with some electrical knowledgable ;) people, and they
understood this to be the case. Something about the capacitance of the earth
and so larger conduits were smarter to use.
If someone has more info - please tell us ;)
On 7/6/07, joe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Where did you get this idea? I'm an electrical contractor, have been
> burying wire for years, and never heard of such a thing! There are
> losses, yes but they are caused by the resistance of the wire, not the
earth!
>
> Joseph H. Strubhar
>
> Web: www.gremcoinc.com
>
> E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "patrick DonEgan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 5:26 PM
> Subject: Re: bury batts was: Re: Free Energy
>
>
> > Well, what about the capacitance of the Earth (aka dirt)???
> >
> > I know when you bury electrical cables, you lose power.
> >
> >
> > On 7/5/07, Brandon Kruger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> If you do bury batteries underground, they should remain at a
> >> constant 57F. This would keep the batteries from overheating, but
> >> you wouldn't get the full capacity achievable at 70-80F.
> >>
> >> My 2 Wh,
> >>
> >> Brandon Kruger
> >> http://bmk789.dyndns.org/ev/
> >> http://cafepress.com/altfuel
> >>
> >> On 7/5/07, patrick DonEgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> > On 7/5/07, Richard Acuti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > > I'll start off with a grid-tie system but evenually I want an
> >> > > interrupt breaker that will divert PV output from the static
> >> > > inverter to a "battery bunker" I'm going to bury in the
> >> > > backyard. That way, if the grid goes down, I'll have batteries
> >> > > to run things for a little while.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > If you bury the batteries, will the earth soak up a percentage of
> >> > your energy?
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
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On Jul 6, 2007, at 8:19 AM, John Wayland wrote:
It would do the same thing if it were sitting in the living room on
a coffee table along with Harper's Bazaar.
I tried that with a couple of Optimas once. My wife wouldn't go for
it :-)
Paul
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>I made a search on that recently as well. It's a technology pioneered by
>Seiko, marketed under the Kinetic brand. Basically, a rotating pendulum
>attached to a mini-generator inside the watch.
With regards to an EV, wearing one of those watches will slightly reduce
your range, as it'll 'charge' when you turn a corner. Of course, it
'charges' when you move your arm to steer the EV, which will take
a miniscule amount of extra breakfast for you to move. It's really OT
but I couldn't resist... :-)
The energy really isn't free... just in this case it is so miniscule
that the 'stolen' energy is lost in the noise.
-Dale
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Thank you Larry and Roger. That is what I was suspecting. Its a bit
dark and dirty under there - ICEs have a way of leaving messes.
Anyway, I have turned every bolt and nut required to remove the
engine/transmission. The engine is hanging in an empty engine bay,
except for the front mounts. Left to do...
drain tranny
drop driveshaft
pull speedo cable (must drain tranny first!)
remove hood
I'm more familiar with old aircooled VWs. This is like a blast back
to high school auto shop (and that was quite a few years ago.) I was
going to pull the motor this weekend but now I'm working it. Well,
you've got either money or time, right?
Thanx,
Paul "neon" G.
Larry Cronk wrote:
Roger Stockton wrote:
I haven't pulled a tranny out of a Datsun for a long time, but the
nut
on the speedo cable usually allows you to remove the cable from the
tranny while a small bolt in the immediate vicinity will usually be
retaining the speedo drive gear assembly itself.
You can't go wrong undoing the cable nut and verifying with a
gentle tug
that this frees the cable housing from the tranny/speedo drive. If
that
gentle tug doesn't reveal that the cable is now completely free of
the
tranny, tug a little more firmly. It will come loose with very little
effort if it is free, so you will know if the little bolt needs to
come
out well before you harm the cable.
Larry Cronk wrote:
I just removed the trans in my 72 datsun truck. I had the
motor rebuilt by jim husted.who did a beautiful job. the small
bolt removes the whole assembly.I drained the trans fluid first.I
had the flywheel lightend balanced and resurfaced plus installed a
new clutch. the truck seems to run much better. good luck!
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Actually, you probably don't want to leave a battery on a concrete
floor, not for the batteries sake but for the floors sake.
I left an old flooded battery in one spot on my garage floor for a
couple months and the acid stained and tore up the concrete. It must
have had a leak or something on the bottom.
Chip
On Jul 6, 2007, at 5:21 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: July 6, 2007 2:08:12 PM EDT
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Setting a Battery on Concrete Myth Answered
I found this article on the internet regarding a
couple of battery myths:
http://www.inct.net/~autotips/battmyth.htm
Battery Myth #2 Storing a battery on a concrete
floor will discharge the battery.
There is not currently a strong reason for avoiding
contact of a battery with a concrete floor. The
battery's contact with the concrete should not create
a problem with the material in today' s batteries. If
the battery is not clean, but has a surface layer of
acid or grime which is conductive, the battery can be
expected to self-discharge more rapidly than if it was
clean and dry. Many years ago, the batteries were
constructed with a wooden case around a glass jar with
the battery in it. Any moisture on the floor could
cause the wood to swell and possibly fracture the
glass, causing it to leak. Shortly after the
introduction of "Hard Rubber" containers, which were
somewhat porous and of a less than ideal design, there
was a chance of current to be conducted through the
container of a high carbon content if the moist
concrete floor permitted the current to find an
electrical ground. These are two of the older reasons
for not storing batteries on a concrete floor. There
is no reference to avoiding storage on concrete floors
in the Battery Service Manual published by the BCI.
Their suggestion is appropriate for the current state
of the art batteries built by reputable battery
manufacturers. For more information on storage, see
the AutoTips Battery Storage Tips page.
( Thanks to Interstate Batteries for review and
contributions to this article! Check out their Battery
Care page for more information.)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Paul wrote:
> pull speedo cable (must drain tranny first!)
> remove hood
You only have to drain the tranny if you pull the whole speedo drive
assembly.
I don't remember having to pull the speedo drive to pull a Datsun tranny
in the past and read Larry's message as simply confirming that the
purpose of the small bolt is to retain the speedo drive, not that you
must pull the drive to disconnect the cable.
You're probably going to treat the tranny to a drink of fresh synthetic
fluid anyway, so perhaps draining it isn't a biggie, but I'd still just
disconnect the speedo cable from the drive and leave the drive place on
the tranny if it were mine.
Cheers,
Roger.
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hmm maybe 'we' could make an online map showing the EVs in the world
that site with all the car projects might be a good host
maybe EV enthusiast yet without a car could also be plottet
and EV recharge friendly locations
make something GM could vent their anger at :)
Dan
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--- Begin Message ---
How does one search pasts posts,(those that were made before I subscribed)?
God bless
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--- Begin Message ---
Anyone seen the news on the Stoern project? (thoughts on it)
Free Energy.
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David Dymaxion wrote:
> I'm not disagreeing, but looking at things from a different
> point of view. The Evette might be able to hold more
> batteries as a percentage of vehicle weight, which is the
> important number for city range.
I think your comparison between a bicycle, unicycle, and 3 and
4-wheelers is invalid, at least in this instance. It assumes that the
fewer wheels a vehicle has, the less framework/structure it has as well;
it kind of falls apart if the 'unicycle' is a bicycle with the front
wheel removed, which is more like what Tom has done (except he also
replaced the bicyle's remaining wheel with one from a motorcycle, so the
wheel may not be the limiting factor anymore but the 'unicycle' now
weighs as much or more than the original bicycle ;^).
> So if it is properly designed, a vehicle like the Evette
> could have a higher battery to vehicle weight ratio than a
> four wheel vehicle, giving it greater range. Finding strong
> enough bearings and axles is doable, just use truck components.
Just to be clear, it already needs to use at *least* pick up truck type
components since the vehicle weight is comparable to a typical car and
is supported by a single pair of wheels (so loaded 2x as heavily as
those in a typical car, with perhaps 750-1000lbs riding on each when
fully loaded). So, when you refer to "truck", we're talking 3 to 5 ton
truck parts now, including tires, which is going to push the vehicle's
unladen weight higher and so impact that precious battery-to-vehicle
weight ratio we're after.
Tom refers to the Evette being about 1000lbs w/o batteries, which is
about the same as the 4-wheeled steel-bodied 4-seater hatchback donor
used for my EV (1584lbs curb weight in ICE trim, with spare tire and
fluids on board). There is no significant reduction in base vehicle
weight apparent here.
And, with the huge tires he has chosen (been forced?) to use, his
rolling resistance may be significantly greater than a typical 4-wheeled
conversion, so he may need an even better battery-to-vehicle weight
ratio to even match a conventional EV's range.
I'm not saying it isn't possible, just that there really isn't anything
that clearly suggests it is. It looks to me as if there is every reason
to expect that his vehicle would need a similar battery weight as any
similarly sized 4-wheeler to go a given distance but that he is limited
by either what he can physically fit into the rear seat/trunk area
(bearing in mind that his drivetrain must also fit in this space) since
he can't put significant weight in the front of the "car" without
upsetting the vehicle balance, or by the maximum load capacity of his
tires and suspension components, whichever comes first.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
it's Steorn. and they crashed hard at the demo. no show. saga continues
who knows. what a world
Rob Hogenmiller wrote:
Anyone seen the news on the Stoern project? (thoughts on it)
Free Energy.
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--- Begin Message ---
If you stored batteries for a length of time, they should be store like
stationary batteries. Lets see what the specifications read in my battery
hand book, which is in a section of the Standard Handbook for Electrical
Engineers:
Batteries shall set on a bed of glass beads that are in a glass tray. The
glass trays are also mounted on glass insulators. You can use something like
the glass beads using for sand blasting.
So, why do you think they did that?
If you took a volt meter and put one lead on one of the post, and place the
other on the surface of the battery about 1/8 inch away from that post, you
will read a voltage. Now while keeping the one lead on the post and move
the other on the surface of the battery all the way to one edge, you will
still read some voltage.
Now move the lead all the way down to the bottom of the battery and you may
still read some conductance.
If a battery is setting on a conductive surface, that may be cooler and the
battery retains a warmer temperature, you will have condensation below the
battery. As a test, just lay a sheet of plastic on the concrete floor for
about a week and see the amount of condensation below the plastic.
If there is conductance from both post along the plastic exterior down the
sides, then this is where you have a path of current.
If a battery is new and very clean, it may have no conductance you can
measure. A use battery and no matter how much you clean it, there will be a
surface conductance.
In my battery box, I set my batteries on 1 inch thick bed of baking soda and
also space the batteries about 1/2 inch from the sides of a non-conductance
epoxy coat battery boxes so I reduce the conductance to the body of the EV.
I just read my 180 volt battery pack to the EV body and its reads 0.82 volts
and I haven't clean my batteries for about a month now.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: Setting a Battery on Concrete Myth Answered
> Actually, you probably don't want to leave a battery on a concrete
> floor, not for the batteries sake but for the floors sake.
>
> I left an old flooded battery in one spot on my garage floor for a
> couple months and the acid stained and tore up the concrete. It must
> have had a leak or something on the bottom.
>
> Chip
>
>
>
> On Jul 6, 2007, at 5:21 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
>
> > From: Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: July 6, 2007 2:08:12 PM EDT
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: Re: Setting a Battery on Concrete Myth Answered
> >
> >
> > I found this article on the internet regarding a
> > couple of battery myths:
> >
> > http://www.inct.net/~autotips/battmyth.htm
> >
> > Battery Myth #2 Storing a battery on a concrete
> > floor will discharge the battery.
> >
> > There is not currently a strong reason for avoiding
> > contact of a battery with a concrete floor. The
> > battery's contact with the concrete should not create
> > a problem with the material in today' s batteries. If
> > the battery is not clean, but has a surface layer of
> > acid or grime which is conductive, the battery can be
> > expected to self-discharge more rapidly than if it was
> > clean and dry. Many years ago, the batteries were
> > constructed with a wooden case around a glass jar with
> > the battery in it. Any moisture on the floor could
> > cause the wood to swell and possibly fracture the
> > glass, causing it to leak. Shortly after the
> > introduction of "Hard Rubber" containers, which were
> > somewhat porous and of a less than ideal design, there
> > was a chance of current to be conducted through the
> > container of a high carbon content if the moist
> > concrete floor permitted the current to find an
> > electrical ground. These are two of the older reasons
> > for not storing batteries on a concrete floor. There
> > is no reference to avoiding storage on concrete floors
> > in the Battery Service Manual published by the BCI.
> > Their suggestion is appropriate for the current state
> > of the art batteries built by reputable battery
> > manufacturers. For more information on storage, see
> > the AutoTips Battery Storage Tips page.
> >
> > ( Thanks to Interstate Batteries for review and
> > contributions to this article! Check out their Battery
> > Care page for more information.)
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Folks,
Thought it might be wise to take a class before starting my own
project... Anyone know of some good resources in the by area?
Thanks,
jm
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--- Begin Message ---
I am dreaming of a battery pack that consists of 30
groups of A123 cells, 5 cells per group. An array
that is 5 cells in parallel with 30 in series. Not a
very big or heavy pack. Not much energy storage
either, but read on. Not even high voltage. Each
cell is interconnected. There are bypass regulators
on each block of cells limiting the max voltage to 4.0
or maybe 4.1 V. Notice that that is less than 100%
charged. Thre is also a non-ressetable fuse in line
with each and every cell to take care of catastrophic
failure and runaway.
Then, there is a battery pack of 12 V good old flooded
lead, 10 batteries in series.
There is a diode to only allow current to flow from
the lead pack to the A123 pack.
There is also a current limiter sized appropriately
for maximum 1 way trip. 1/2 of your max range and the
A123's go to 20% SOC. Let's say 40 A current limiter.
Finally, there is a single contactor controlled by the
voltage of the A123 pack. Less than the regulator
voltage, it is on and the packs are connected. More
than the regulator voltage and it is disconnected. The
lead pack has a higher voltage than the 123 pack, so
it always charges the 123 pack.
The A123 cells will see.
1) Charge rate of 40 A / 5 = 8 A per cell (roughly)
constant current up to 4.0 or 4.1 V per cell.
2) Discharge on the order of up to 350 A /5 = 70 A.
Typical would be around 25 A.
3) They would be cycled a lot.
4) Max DOD could be limited to 80% / 20% SOC.
Two questions:
1) How would the A123's hold up in this case where
they are essentially used as capacitors?
2) Would this significantly improve the amount of
usable energy you could get out of the basic flooded
lead. I would think so because of limiting the
discharge rate.
3) What effects would it have on the cycle life of the
lead?
This is one type of hybrid battery pack that I have
considerered, but never built. So far, I have gone
the other way and used low discharge rate on NiMH and
Li Ion to boost charge the lead pack. But now, I am
thinking I have it all wrong, and I should be doing
the opposite. Keep the discharge rate on the lead low
to maximize usable energy out (and maybe cycle life
????). The other way, the sole intent was to boost
the lead SOC to improve cycle life. Really it had
little to no effect on usable energy out of the lead
pack, as far as I could see. That is with the slow
charge rates off my small boost packs.
Thoughts?
Steve
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.
http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121
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I hope this is not a mis-use of this list, but;
The time has come for me to part with the best EV (for me) I have ever
owned. It is in excellent condition and many of you have seen it before.
It is listed on the EValbum at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/296.html
For more pictures also see http://www.evpickup.shutterfly.com
I've got the itch to get into a different EV or I would never sell it,
plus my wife won't drive a pickup. She loved the Solectria Force.
I would prefer to have someone in our group buy it.
It is in Excellent condition and would not require any repairs as I
drive daily. EVery thing works as it should.
Details:
It has fresh US Battery 125 (240Ahr/20hr) batteries installed last fall.
Tested range is 45 miles+, and it may go up to 60 miles under the right
conditions. These batteries have been below 50% SOC only twice.
It has new front brake discs, pads, calipers, new rear cylinders, shoes,
etc. Also new wheel bearings and synthetic grease at the same time just
a few weeks ago.
I have 2 additional GTI seats for it that require re-covering.
The FM radio with CD player and speakers in the boxes behind the seats
were installed by Paul "neon" G.
Available for test drive any time.
I am looking to get $10,000 for it
Please do not use EDVL bandwidth to contact me about this.
Don Buckshot
Roeland Park, Kansas
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
913-789-0889
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--- Begin Message ---
There is a map we EV locations, it doesn't have the whole world on
one map map, that probably would be too hard to read, (to much data,
too small a screen).
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/geo
I think there is one with charging stations out there somewhere.
At 06:16 PM 7/6/2007, you wrote:
hmm maybe 'we' could make an online map showing the EVs in the world
that site with all the car projects might be a good host
maybe EV enthusiast yet without a car could also be plottet
and EV recharge friendly locations
make something GM could vent their anger at :)
Dan
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--- Begin Message ---
Dale Ulan wrote:
>> A lot of underhood electronic modules are not conformally coated,
>> either. Parts are rated -40 to +125 deg.C. The board is then
>> enclosed in a rather carefully engineered, watertight, air-breathing
>> enclosure.
Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> Hmmm. Guess I shouldn't be using the pressure washer on my ICE engine
> then, huh :) On my subaru, the ECU is under the dash, not under the
> hood. But I've also driven through water deep enough that it flooded
> my feet -- getting up towards the dash.....
There are many ways to protect the electronics. Conformal coating is
just one way; others include potting, hermetic sealing, submerging in
oil or other insulating liquid, deliberately using large component
spacings... and waterproof packaging, as Dale Ulan said.
It doesn't matter how you do it -- just that you do *something* to keep
water from shorting traces on the PC boards.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
There is also a frappr map http://www.frappr.com/ev/map.
damon
From: Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: EV world map
Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 19:37:37 -0500
There is a map we EV locations, it doesn't have the whole world on one map
map, that probably would be too hard to read, (to much data, too small a
screen).
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/geo
I think there is one with charging stations out there somewhere.
At 06:16 PM 7/6/2007, you wrote:
hmm maybe 'we' could make an online map showing the EVs in the world
that site with all the car projects might be a good host
maybe EV enthusiast yet without a car could also be plottet
and EV recharge friendly locations
make something GM could vent their anger at :)
Dan
_________________________________________________________________
http://newlivehotmail.com
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The coolest tool for modifying cars is the "Jaws of Life". I got to
practice one time in a firefighter class. You can heavily modify a car in a
short time with those things. The other cool thing is that they are useful
to save lives too!
----- Original Message -----
From: "gary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 11:41 AM
Subject: RE: Steel
Yeah, angle grinders are almost the coolest tool there is for
modifying cars, especially if there's any rust involved, second only
to wirefeed welders. Sawzalls are up there pretty high too though.
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I'm trying to figure this posting out. Forgive my ignorance, please. I'm
probably doing it wrong, or my ammeters are not accurate??? The surface I
put the battery on doesn't seem to matter.
I'm wondering if the reading could have more to do with ground potential?
"They" tell me that, if I have a building some distance from my house, I
need to put a ground rod at both locations, as they have different
potentials. I'm wondering if that is what we are reading, not a loss through
the battery?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: Setting a Battery on Concrete Myth Answered
> Batteries shall set on a bed of glass beads that are in a glass tray.
<snip>
> If you took a volt meter and put one lead on one of the post, and place
the
> other on the surface of the battery about 1/8 inch away from that post,
you
> will read a voltage. Now while keeping the one lead on the post and move
> the other on the surface of the battery all the way to one edge, you will
> still read some voltage.
>
> Roland
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They speculated that the hot lighting destroyed one of the bearings.
http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_id=01100000CMWK
Apparently it has some quantum/Heinseberg problem. The presence of an
observer changes the process and it stops working.
Anyhow, I'm only responding to give you some things to say to the guys
who tell you you need to look into making a Steon powered car.
The topic's dead.
Danny
Dan Frederiksen wrote:
it's Steorn. and they crashed hard at the demo. no show. saga continues
who knows. what a world
Rob Hogenmiller wrote:
Anyone seen the news on the Stoern project? (thoughts on it)
Free Energy.
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On 6 Jul 2007 at 18:22, Rob Hogenmiller wrote:
> How does one search pasts posts,(those that were made before I subscribed)?
The current EVDL archives are linked from the EVDL help page :
http://www.evdl.org/help/
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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It works
On 7/5/07, David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
New e-mail address.
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On 6 Jul 2007 at 18:26, Rob Hogenmiller wrote:
> Anyone seen the news on the Stoern project? (thoughts on it)
This topic is not an appropriate one for discussion on this list.
Please read :
http://evdl.org/help/index.html#conv
Thanks for your cooperation.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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www.electroauto.com
Mike Brown has given classes in the _Santa Cruz_ area.
Don't know if those are on this year or not.
Otherwise, buy his book "Convert It", and chew up the
web (wikipedia, or follow my link (below)).
Best to you,
--- jmmistrot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Folks,
>
> Thought it might be wise to take a class before
> starting my own
> project... Anyone know of some good resources in the
> by area?
>
> Thanks,
>
> jm
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the
Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
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"There is a diode to only allow current to flow from
the lead pack to the A123 pack."
What's wrong with volts?
"Let's say 40 A current limiter."
At 40 amps you don't have much of a boost.
"The lead pack has a higher voltage than the 123 pack, so
it always charges the 123 pack."
That sounds tricky to have another charger in your car to charge the A123.
"Would this significantly improve the amount of
usable energy you could get out of the basic flooded
lead. I would think so because of limiting the
discharge rate?"
I don't think the change would be signifigant.
"What effects would it have on the cycle life of the
lead?"
That depends. A battery not designed for sudden high power output
would greatly benefit from having the A123's help out. For something
like an Optima, I don't think the effect on life-cycle would be as
great though. However, if you're only pulling 40 amps from your A123
pack at such a low voltage then the difference in power would be
practically nothing!
On 7/6/07, Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I am dreaming of a battery pack that consists of 30
groups of A123 cells, 5 cells per group. An array
that is 5 cells in parallel with 30 in series. Not a
very big or heavy pack. Not much energy storage
either, but read on. Not even high voltage. Each
cell is interconnected. There are bypass regulators
on each block of cells limiting the max voltage to 4.0
or maybe 4.1 V. Notice that that is less than 100%
charged. Thre is also a non-ressetable fuse in line
with each and every cell to take care of catastrophic
failure and runaway.
Then, there is a battery pack of 12 V good old flooded
lead, 10 batteries in series.
There is a diode to only allow current to flow from
the lead pack to the A123 pack.
There is also a current limiter sized appropriately
for maximum 1 way trip. 1/2 of your max range and the
A123's go to 20% SOC. Let's say 40 A current limiter.
Finally, there is a single contactor controlled by the
voltage of the A123 pack. Less than the regulator
voltage, it is on and the packs are connected. More
than the regulator voltage and it is disconnected. The
lead pack has a higher voltage than the 123 pack, so
it always charges the 123 pack.
The A123 cells will see.
1) Charge rate of 40 A / 5 = 8 A per cell (roughly)
constant current up to 4.0 or 4.1 V per cell.
2) Discharge on the order of up to 350 A /5 = 70 A.
Typical would be around 25 A.
3) They would be cycled a lot.
4) Max DOD could be limited to 80% / 20% SOC.
Two questions:
1) How would the A123's hold up in this case where
they are essentially used as capacitors?
2) Would this significantly improve the amount of
usable energy you could get out of the basic flooded
lead. I would think so because of limiting the
discharge rate.
3) What effects would it have on the cycle life of the
lead?
This is one type of hybrid battery pack that I have
considerered, but never built. So far, I have gone
the other way and used low discharge rate on NiMH and
Li Ion to boost charge the lead pack. But now, I am
thinking I have it all wrong, and I should be doing
the opposite. Keep the discharge rate on the lead low
to maximize usable energy out (and maybe cycle life
????). The other way, the sole intent was to boost
the lead SOC to improve cycle life. Really it had
little to no effect on usable energy out of the lead
pack, as far as I could see. That is with the slow
charge rates off my small boost packs.
Thoughts?
Steve
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.
http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121
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It hit about 112 here today and the zilla overheated. It cut out as i
was accelerating from a light (and just about snapped my neck when it
came back and chirped the tires.)
I have had this problem once before, but was unable to figure out why
exactly it happens. Today I think I know.
It has a tranny cooler up front that I never got the fan installed on
it. It was cool to the touch, but the resivoir and the lines to the
zilla were quiet warm. So this is a no flow problem, but I could hear
the pump running.
It is a sealed system (cpu cooler tank and pump. a little undersize) As
soon as a loosed the cap and let some the pressure out, it began to pump
again.
So, Maybe a completely sealed system is not a good idea :-)
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I've heard that the 5th gen Honda Civic has a crankshaft that rotates
in the opposite direction of nearly every other gas engine of its time
(92-95)
Is this true? And just what is the direction that nearly all
crankshafts spin in?
On a side note.....What does "advancing" an electric motor mean?
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